Video: Reid’s GOP challenger talks up bartering for medical services
posted at 10:02 pm on April 21, 2010 by Allahpundit
This is odd enough that I’m wondering if there’s some strategic angle I’m overlooking. Wonders the city boy: Is bartering still common in rural areas? With … doctors? (Answer: Maybe!) That is to say, is this some strange play for, er, the farm vote or something? The left’s been wetting itself over the story for more than a week, starting with this piece at TPM on April 12 when Lowden mentioned “bartering” as one way to drive down medical costs. Her campaign quickly followed up with a statement saying she meant to say haggling (or “bargaining,” possibly), which seemed to have defused it. Then, a few days ago, she brought it up again in the clip you’ll find below, replete with a soundbite about chickens that was kooky enough for the Dems to rush out a website mocking her for it. Then, just today, when her campaign was pressed on it again, they responded with this:
“Americans are struggling to pay for their health care, and in order to afford coverage we must explore all options available to drive costs down. Bartering with your doctor is not a new concept. There have been numerous reports as to how negotiating with your doctor is an option and doctors have gone on the record verifying this.
“Unfortunately, Harry Reid’s failed leadership forces us to take drastic measures. The fact remains that instead of producing a health care solution Americans support, Harry Reid spends his time focusing on attacking his biggest threat to another six years in Washington, Sue Lowden.”
So … yeah, she supports bartering. Question: Am I missing something here? This won’t stop me from supporting her over the guy who gifted us with the trillion-dollar boondoggle to end all boondoggles, but in fairness, had Reid said something like this, we’d have already had several thousand-comment threads goofing on him for it. What gives?









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night barterers…maybe AP could start a little barter economy here. I just about asked him if I could get a “ban hammer” pass if i gave him about ten “love this post” comments.
natch, he didn’t bite. farging bastage.
ted c on April 21, 2010 at 10:52 PM
The ultimate barter…
Seven Percent Solution on April 21, 2010 at 10:52 PM
Where have you been Brad? The Dems did nothing but repeat their talking points during the healthcare debate.
Tasha on April 21, 2010 at 10:52 PM
It’s Vegas baby. You just don’t pay the hooker her first ask…
phreshone on April 21, 2010 at 10:53 PM
sounds like your upcoming IRS audit….
ted c on April 21, 2010 at 10:53 PM
Well dang! Looks like I am going to have to do it myself.Is it true that the second biggest pain (after surviving making a 500 lb carnivore angry) is geting the hide cured?
LincolntheHun on April 21, 2010 at 10:53 PM
LOL! You sure he wasn’t a veterinarian? Gee, I hope your will is up to date.
(I kid, I kid. My beloved pup’s sainted doc is an Aggie, of course. Come to think of it, I sure wish I could “barter” with him, but he’s married, darnit.)
leilani on April 21, 2010 at 10:53 PM
I hope you have that hide stretched out. If not.. get some corn meal (whole box), vinegar (whole bottle) and rock salt and add it all together. Spread hide out on the floor.. run the “mix” into the hide and start stretching. The hide with soak in salt and vinegar and the corn meal makes it pliable. When you are done stretching it out… take off the “mix” and start scraping the hide.
Or take it to a taxidermist… for 1200 bucks. blah!
upinak on April 21, 2010 at 10:56 PM
Back in the late ’70s there were news stories in the soon to be dead weekly news mags about the IRS trying to tax the barter economy. For example. a dentist fixes a contractor’s teeth in exchange for some home remodeling. The IRS would consider the transaction as taxable income for both participants. These reports ran for a while, but then they went away kind of abruptly. I presume the IRS decided that it was impossible to monitor such activity, or else they feared a court decision about an exchange with no money changing hands. By extrapolation, working for wages or a salary is actually an exchange, your time and skills for money.
Pelayo on April 21, 2010 at 11:00 PM
Thanks for the info. Gotta dash, have to run in the morning. Dang Army PT standards, I keep telling them I am to good looking to get all sweaty but does any one listen…No
Nite all
LincolntheHun on April 21, 2010 at 11:01 PM
They throw a VAT at us and you’re going to see all kinds of bartering!
Oink on April 21, 2010 at 11:08 PM
Negotiations are not a bad thing…..
reminds me of the movie…Doc Hollywood…..my payment for services is to give up my prized pot belly pig!.
hawkman on April 21, 2010 at 11:08 PM
Yes, not paying tax on unreported income is a crime, but the transaction carries no penalty…yet.
Your comment is kind of a brush off to a serious issue.
Saltysam on April 21, 2010 at 11:15 PM
I just spit my drink on my screen +500….
Barter, haggle, negotiate are pretty much interchangable. I am hoping to trade eggs, fresh chicken and the bounty of my garden for underground health care.
kringeesmom on April 21, 2010 at 11:21 PM
She clearly referred to a historical practice (“grandparents,” “olden days”). A little clunky & unusual, but I don’t think she was seriously proposing to pay for a checkup with a “live chicken and some Peach Preserves!”. (Gratuitous Ray Stevens reference- couldn’t help myself).
cs89 on April 21, 2010 at 11:23 PM
I would think it wouldn’t. Why on earth would it???
In fairness, that’s nonsense. As the daughter of a doctor I can assure you “we” would not. Nor, as a political observer and person who can perceive character, would Harry Reid have ever proposed such a thing.
KittyLowrey on April 21, 2010 at 11:23 PM
AP, if Reid said he same thing and opposed the HCR bill, then no, there wouldn’t be thousand comment threads.
And even for city folks, bartering isn’t that strange among the small biz crowd. My friend owns a children’s clothing botique and barters clothes for services all the time with her doctor and dentist.
Contributor X on April 21, 2010 at 11:28 PM
and thus the Obama administration succeeds in returning us to a 19th century economy.
Fighton03 on April 21, 2010 at 11:32 PM
Bartering = Bargaining in this context I think.
And, of course, the conservative position on health care would be to put the patient in the position to pay, hence make judgements on cost, including bargaining with the doc.
Clark1 on April 21, 2010 at 11:33 PM
Haven’t any of you ever seen “Doc Hollywood“?
The hell is wrong with you people.
russcote on April 21, 2010 at 11:41 PM
Having a little gold and silver coin around doesn’t hurt either especially if the dollar takes the expected dive when we can’t sell our federal junk t-notes anymore.
docdave on April 21, 2010 at 11:45 PM
It didn’t go away. Any significant barter exchange is a taxable event. This is difficult to enforce of course.
toliver on April 21, 2010 at 11:55 PM
I tried to trade an automatic transmission rebuild to the Mirage for a stack of black chips and they acted like they didn’t know what I was talking about .
borntoraisehogs on April 21, 2010 at 11:55 PM
MY ER doc hubby hasn’t been offered bartered services (the hospital handles billing) but he did receive a lovely roast and a box of chocolates as a ‘tip’ when he diagnosed a life threatening condition in one patient. That was a bright spot in the small-town experience.
So, if you get a knee replacement, will you have just been ‘value added’ because you can walk again?
spudmom on April 21, 2010 at 11:58 PM
I owned a retail jewelry store for 17 years. You’d be amazed how much stuff you can barter for.
trigon on April 21, 2010 at 11:59 PM
This is more a case of poor word choice than anything. She doesn’t mean barter in the sense of trading goods for different goods, what she means is negotiating prices and contracts directly with the doctor.
DangerHighVoltage on April 22, 2010 at 12:23 AM
Absolutely astounding the number of comments that conflate bartering with bargaining. No wonder we can no longer communicate effectively. We don’t even agree what the words mean. Might just as well revert to grunts and gestures.
Skandia Recluse on April 22, 2010 at 12:24 AM
Whoa, whoa, wait a minute. All these comments and no Life of Brian reference?
That changes now.
YYZ on April 22, 2010 at 12:28 AM
My grandmother was a mid-wife in the first half of the century. She got paid in stuff not money. That’s what she means. Lowden is probably not a city person. It’s probably not that uncommon to get paid in stuff.
When we were farming we got a half a hog for some work or as rent on something someone borrowed, I don’t remember what. We had a freezer. No book keeping, no taxes.
When I was about four my parents took care of someone’s horses for a winter and they were given a colt in payment. I grew up with that horse.
I’m sure some people still live that way.
petunia on April 22, 2010 at 12:31 AM
That’s an expensive flu shot! Just kidding I think they are $25 dollars at Walgreens so that’s probably not a bad price.
petunia on April 22, 2010 at 12:33 AM
I bet he wishes he’d kept the blue dress.
petunia on April 22, 2010 at 12:41 AM
Before woking where I am now, I was in an even more rural area. It was not at all unusual to take “payment” in the form of fresh eggs, vegetables, etc.
The doctors that used to practice where I am now would do the same. Unfortunately as an employee, I don’t have that option, but there’s certainly nothing odd or unusual about bartering. There’s even less odd or unusual about barganing or haggling which is done in every service-based profession that ever existed.
DrAllecon on April 22, 2010 at 12:41 AM
She’s right. Perhaps the intellectuals will stop snickering if I reference Atticus Finch in To Kill a Mockingbird.
Barter is a common system of payment in American farm and ranch communities and in most communities around the world. Some smart ass urbanites are once again demonstrating the narrowness of their vision. Their immersion in Pop Culture creates a knee jerk revulsion to Lowden’s statement because it doesn’t sound cool.
In a “free enterprise” system any exchange of value agreed upon by both parties should be okay, right?
Lowden’s opinion is especially correct considering who she’s fighting to represent. Have a gander at the High Lonesome of the Great Basin. Wanna guess how far to the nearest ATM pilgrim?
rcl on April 22, 2010 at 12:51 AM
There’s nothing wrong with bartering.
The best doctors, incl. specialists, will be at the gulches.
Barter on!
Schadenfreude on April 22, 2010 at 12:52 AM
O.K.-
I am probably repeating 4-5-6-9+ previous responses:
1) Why post Sue as Dingy Harry’s opponent?? Has Danny T dropped out???
2) It is a FREEKIN’ PRIMARY people – let the locals decide the challenger.
fargo_pete on April 22, 2010 at 12:59 AM
In all honesty, I was being only half sarcastic. I take Lowden to mean that we just want the government to get the hell out of the way of health care and most other things. If that means a return in some places to trade for goods and services, so be it. I didn’t mean to sound completely snarky; it’s a Jersey thing. My bad.
Trust me, I’d rather live in a system that allowed us the choice of painting a doctor’s house for a root canal than deal with the impending ObamaCare bureaucratic nightmare.
Which yes, is going to be far worse than a root canal.
russcote on April 22, 2010 at 1:03 AM
allah,
bartering is big with the Ron Paul crowd. she might be going after the libertian vote on this.
going gault will require bartering.
unseen on April 22, 2010 at 1:05 AM
2) It is a FREEKIN’ PRIMARY people – let the locals decide the challenger.
fargo_pete on April 22, 2010 at 12:59 AM
but but then how will the GOP elite know that the candidate will listen to them when they win. I mean look at crist he was the perfect DC stooge. he would have voted for anything and everything the DC elites wanted. We can’t be having contested primaries why the DC elites could lose all power .
unseen on April 22, 2010 at 1:07 AM
and I thought that some people raised chickens just to teach their kids how to walk
Kermit on April 22, 2010 at 1:10 AM
Come to think of it, didn’t Obama, Pelosi and Reid barter with Stupak and others on Porkulous and the HealthCare takeover law?
One airport for your state for one vote? One meaningless promise for yours sir? How are you fixed for motorized golf carts?
DrAllecon on April 22, 2010 at 1:10 AM
It’s official Allahpundit has never resided anywhere other than an urban environment. This bartering of services has long been a mainstay in rural areas, even medical care.
Kermit on April 22, 2010 at 1:11 AM
My sister-in-law is a nurse for a local small town doc that barters. Said he gets car repairs and what not in exchange for services.
If Obamacare reimburses like military Tricare bartering may be a better option for the doc’s. I am starting to get statements back from a recent ER visit and so far Tricare has paid about $900 out of $5000. If a hospital or doc accepts Tricare they have to accept it and aren’t supposed to come after the patient for the difference. Not many, if any, places can stay in business with a loss like that.
Russ86 on April 22, 2010 at 1:22 AM
Curious – neither Sue Lowden nor Danny Trakanian have won a SINGLE GOP COUNTY STRAW POLL!!
Sharron has won all but one (Nye), and beat Sue and Danny in Clark county!!
Listen to Mark Levin’s glowing endorsement here.
fred5678 on April 22, 2010 at 1:42 AM
“The war is lost, the war is lost.”
Sue Lowden, please don’t snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. The war is not won yet Sue. Stop being an imbecile.
technopeasant on April 22, 2010 at 1:51 AM
My grandfather, a dentist, got paid in chickens sometimes. It was a rural area, and people couldn’t always get their hands on cash. It’s old-fashioned, sure, but so are house calls and people would leap to get some of that action.
Mynuet on April 22, 2010 at 3:25 AM
Allah,
Are you really so naive? Do you really believe all those boob jobs, lipos and other surgeries involved an exchange of taxable money?
LCL4 on April 22, 2010 at 3:30 AM
Lordy, you are a city slicker aren’t you Allah? The barter system is a mainstay of rugged rural life in America. It is quintessentially conservative free market living.
csdeven on April 22, 2010 at 4:45 AM
The difference is that the demrats barter with our possessions, not their own.
csdeven on April 22, 2010 at 4:48 AM
Jeez, get out more!
Half the stuff on antiques roadshow is stuff doctors accepted as payment.
Lonetown on April 22, 2010 at 4:54 AM
To know that, I’d actually have to stay in. :)
DrMagnolias on April 22, 2010 at 5:30 AM
Make your way up to Nye County, and the prices are listed on the menu.
JohnGalt23 on April 22, 2010 at 6:11 AM
This is a big deal over nothing, obviously the woman is talking about bargaining, negotiating, haggling, etc. Considering what a dismal failure the left has been at selling their own product I really don’t think they need to be laughing at other people.
Terrye on April 22, 2010 at 6:55 AM
Wasn’t the chicken reference historical? Why do people have to take everything said so literally? Isn’t it possible that she might be drawing parallels and that maybe today you go to the doctor and ask to repay the services via a payment plan in the event you don’t have insurance?
Exit question: Are you that dense Allah, or just so entrenched in your NYC apartment that you can’t identify with anything outside of it? Or maybe Allah is really Joan Walsh.
BKeyser on April 22, 2010 at 7:25 AM
Although just a lowly Chiropractor, I barter with pts on a weekly basis. Beef, poultry, construction, equipment rentals. The more the better IMO.
melachiro on April 22, 2010 at 7:48 AM
I know of at least 2 lawyers that accept bartering as a form of payment.
mwdiver on April 22, 2010 at 8:03 AM
T’aint funny, McGee. My father got paid in chickens, apples and potatoes just so he could get paid SOMETHING for his service, and we were happy to get something to eat.
Mr. Grump on April 22, 2010 at 8:09 AM
If I bring a chicken to the doctor they’ll guide me right over to the mental health section.
Jaibones on April 22, 2010 at 8:11 AM
As a child I remember my father (a country Doctor) bringing home cases of raspberries from the office as well as chickens, wild game, fish, corn, baked items and eggs (just to name a few) to pay for many types of services… including dropping insulin from an airplane to a farmer and landing that airplane to deliver twins both just after a blizzard made roads impassable.
The future of our country may mean MORE bartering under the table to evade our dear leader’s crushing taxes.
Arwen_Evenstar on April 22, 2010 at 8:40 AM
Same here. It’s actually pretty common among the self employed.
Onus on April 22, 2010 at 8:41 AM
Any who said the Republican Party is void of ideas? Here is one: “Chickens for Health”(™)
Who needs a stinkin’ 2000 page bill?
Decider on April 22, 2010 at 8:48 AM
Do you not have neighbors that you can swap out work with? For example, I’m in insurance and my neighbor owns a car repair shop. I offer him free advice, he discounts my car repair. I bring him fresh produce from my travels, he smokes me some brisket. AP, you need to either get out more or move somewhere where real people live.
Proud Texan on April 22, 2010 at 8:55 AM
AP: Please run a post about Sharron Angle the CONSERVATIVE Republican who is running in the Senate primary here in Nevada. She has been endorsed by the TEA party movement and Mark Levin (The Great One) has given her his full endorsement. I’ve met the woman and spoken at length with her. She’s the real deal and merits the support of conservatives.
Mojave Mark on April 22, 2010 at 9:02 AM
I hope this woman has great insurance. She needs something to help pay for the many surgeries she’ll need to correct that awful cosmetic surgery she’s had! Why are these women so dumb? They’ll ruin a face, turn it into a horrifying mask just to avoid a few wrinkles. Wrinkles of skin stretched so tight, I look like a monster..hmmm…tough choice.
TheBlueSite on April 22, 2010 at 9:11 AM
Is bartering still common in rural areas? AP
Yes it is, and not just in the “rural” areas, you stuck up, effete, New York dork.
Most tradesmen barter constantly. If you put in driveways for a living and I do landscaping, you can rest assured that we will not be using cash or paperwork for most of the value trading. This isn’t just rural areas either, it is part of what the IRS calls the underground economy and it is about 10% of GDP and climbing.
In regards to DR.s and barter. Forget the Beverly Hillbillies swapping two chickens and some honey for an appendicitis. Many doctors will do trade labor for actions that are not high liability exposure. You own a landscape business, you mow your Dr.’s lawn for the summer for full check-ups and office calls for your family within reason. Or you live in the snow belt and you plow the snow out of your dentist’s driveway and you get your basic dentistry covered.
Nathan_OH on April 22, 2010 at 9:19 AM
That was uncalled for, can’t you make a statement without the nastiness? It’s childish.
Proud Texan on April 22, 2010 at 8:55 AM
I sure do miss smoked brisket!
scalleywag on April 22, 2010 at 9:22 AM
Blogboy ought to turn off his computer and get out of the apartment once in a while.
Bartering happens everywhere that people have a saleable skill and work for themselves or a closely controlled business. Yes this excludes the desk jockeys who work for large institutional employers, but even places as backward as NYC still have a large contingent of contractors covering every trade, and professionals working solo or in family businesses. All of these folks barter.
And how can you blog about bartering and not mention the “T” word?
james23 on April 22, 2010 at 9:25 AM
If they put in a VAT it will grow to 30% minimum. The libs are clueless about how people actually think and act. Raising the taxes as they are planning will generate massive losses of revenue. I remember at the heyday of socialism in Italy under Moro their “underground” market was quite a bit larger than the legal taxable economy.
You can’t tax your way out of the hole we’ve dug.
rcl on April 22, 2010 at 9:41 AM
Forget chickens. I can make your slow, buggy-azz computer make you coffee. City folks have barterable skills
Sekhmet on April 22, 2010 at 9:52 AM
You need to get out more Allah. Doctors can and do barter with other professionals/tradesmen for their services. Oh well, I guess we’re glad to continue your education.
Randy
williars on April 22, 2010 at 9:53 AM
When I was with the Army, assigned to a Combat Support Hospital, (MASH) all of the triage docs were vets and pediatricians.
Why? They can diagnose and treat a patient who can’t talk or respond to questions. When I had a dog, her vet was a better doc than my own.
Mr. Grump on April 22, 2010 at 9:56 AM
That was uncalled for, can’t you make a statement without the nastiness? It’s childish.
scalleywag on April 22, 2010 at 9:22 AM
Dude, I am on day three of cold turkey smoking cessation. That was me being friendly.
Nastiness in my current mode would have required me to bring along a bodybag, a backhoe, and some lime.
Nic fitting my way through the day.
Nathan_OH on April 22, 2010 at 9:59 AM
Yep! And it’s so simple…find an appropriate Linux distro, teach the user how to type documents and browse the Internet, and there ya go! ;)
Dark-Star on April 22, 2010 at 10:04 AM
Hang in there, babe. The husband and I are doing the same. It sucks.
shibumiglass on April 22, 2010 at 10:10 AM
Allah is a douche.
csdeven on April 22, 2010 at 10:17 AM
Let me point out the other side. Obama ordered a 10% reduction in reimbursements to oncologists and cardiologists. His coercian is much nastier than old fashioned dickering over price.
One OBGYN that retired early complained to me. He could deliver a baby for a sick unhealthy mother. There could be complications in delivery. She could on one hand sue him for no limit of money and on the other hand never have paid her bill.
seven on April 22, 2010 at 10:17 AM
Nah. Seems more like she has a hard time telling “bartering” from “bargaining” when she’s talking. I see no evidence from context that she means direct exchange of goods without a monetary transaction.
Count to 10 on April 22, 2010 at 10:30 AM
I don’t see what the problem is…. does anyone else?
Either you can barter, bargin, haggle what ever your little heart wants to call it. OR not.
Those that don’t, I am glad you are swimming in money. Those that do, like I, who have insurance but I get charged MORE then asking for a reduced rate in cash only or paying via some other means aren’t dumb…. we just don’t want to spend more then we have too.
Bartering is a skill. You will have people who will tell you no from the get go….. yet you can plant a seed in their head. And then you have the people who try to highball you and you have to talk them down. Some peole are happy with services, others are happy with cash and other just love the bicker issues… aka debating over a price and then givingit to the person for what the person asked for.
These are hints for you city slickers…. maybe you will learn something from it.
upinak on April 22, 2010 at 10:40 AM
Barter does indeed still happen in the trades. My brother owns an HVAC company, and he often barters with his clients that are also in the trades such as contractors, auto mechanics, and electricians. I don’t know if this includes doctors, but in his local circle it’s very common.
DFCtomm on April 22, 2010 at 10:47 AM
That’s right, give them dems more ammo of wackiness for their campaign ads. Arizona goes birther, Georgia bans chips being implanted in booties and now bartering with chickens. Maybe next week one of our Senators will announce he is really an alien from another planet and announce it on CSPAN.
fastestslug on April 22, 2010 at 11:37 AM
No way! Kucinich is changing parties?
petunia on April 22, 2010 at 12:03 PM
I don’t see anything wrong with what she said. She accurately reported how health care finance was done before insurance-based financing became commonplace.
Her greater point is that the free market will find creative solutions, when government doesn’t screw things up.
The Monster on April 22, 2010 at 12:59 PM
Here’s a little friendly advice for docs re bartering and chickens:
One chicken around the house is more than enough.
And there are definite cons as well as pros to having even one.
For examples:
It’s pleasant at first to be awakened by one at sunrise- kinda rustic and back to nature-like.
As you’ll rapidly discover, however, the cock-a-doodle-do thing gets a little old on days off when you would have liked to sleep in a litte.
Secondly it’s hard as hell to set the things properly- and don’t even think about adjusting for Daylight Savings Time.
Lastly, you can’t paper train the things worth a damn, and they can get nervous and aggressive if you also have cats in the house.
So when you do your bartering, don’t aim for more than one. Alright, if you’re one of those compulsive types that has to check and re-check the alarm on your clock a few times before you go to sleep, then it probably wouldn’t hurt to maybe have one backup chicken also.
Oh, and trust me, only barter for a boy chicken. With a chick chicken, more often than not, it’ll be you waking her up rather than the other way around.
Good luck.
justltl on April 22, 2010 at 1:09 PM
Good point. That’s why they’ll barter at such a loss, it’s not their stuff.
DrAllecon on April 22, 2010 at 1:49 PM
Barter transactions for services are supposed to be reported as income. It\’s tax evasion if they aren\’t. That is the law.
commander0 on April 22, 2010 at 2:43 PM
I know a few medical folk who accept works of art and other items in lieu of cash but this issue makes it plain as day that she is not altogether there.
It would be funny to see how she would react if her campaign received chickens instead of checks.
lexhamfox on April 22, 2010 at 2:50 PM
LMFAO HAHAHHAAAA! What are you going to do. Tell on me and others in here to the IRS when most items that are bartered can not be proven.
Dense…
upinak on April 22, 2010 at 3:03 PM
Oh for crying out loud. She’s saying try making a deal with the doctor.
- The Cat
P.S. This goes along with the, “How did people ever survive before X”
MirCat on April 22, 2010 at 3:06 PM
For all of you city slickers out there, my wife and I have been trading our free-range eggs & turkeys to our doctor for years in exchange for not having to cover co-pays and such.
It’s common where I live.
hburns on April 22, 2010 at 4:28 PM
Michael J. Fox as “Doc Hollywood” got a nice pig by bartering his services.
Wolfen on April 22, 2010 at 7:24 PM
Barter transactions for services are supposed to be reported as income. It\’s tax evasion if they aren\’t. That is the law.
commander0 on April 22, 2010 at 2:43 PM
LMFAO HAHAHHAAAA! What are you going to do. Tell on me and others in here to the IRS when most items that are bartered can not be proven.
Dense…
upinak on April 22, 2010 at 3:03 PM
If you barter for services and don’t report it you are a tax cheat whether you get caught or not. Common scum stealing from honest people.
commander0 on April 23, 2010 at 10:29 AM
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