Clinton adviser: Reno had the goods on Clinton over Waco

posted at 1:36 pm on April 20, 2010 by Ed Morrissey

Bill Clinton has spent the last couple of days alleging that Tea Party protesters remind him of Timothy McVeigh, who killed over 160 people in the worst case of domestic terrorism on April 19th, 1995, in Oklahoma City. Dick Morris, a one-time political adviser to the former President turned opponent, tells Sean Hannity that Clinton may want to reflect on his own responsibilities for that attack. Morris says that Clinton personally told him that Janet Reno’s appointment to a second term as Attorney General was to keep her quiet about the Waco disaster in 1993 that McVeigh claimed as his inspiration (via Yid with Lid and HAP):

I find this less than compelling for a couple of reasons. First, Morris doesn’t have the best reputation for credibility, and this story relies entirely on his recollection. Morris doesn’t even know the “big secret.” Second, Clinton had already won the last election he would ever contest — so what was the danger in kicking Reno out?

Next, I’m not sure there really is much of a secret about the Waco raid and the dozens of people killed in it. Clearly the Clinton administration botched it, and Reno took the responsibility for the entire debacle shortly afterward. If it turned out that Clinton had personally ordered the final assault on the compound, it would have certainly put him in a bad political situation — but after the election, it wouldn’t have mattered anyway. Congress didn’t impeach Reno for it when she took the blame, and they wouldn’t have impeached Clinton for it either, although he did get impeached for perjury and obstruction of justice on an unrelated matter later.

Most importantly, though, I dislike the idea of giving McVeigh any credibility by suggesting that Clinton holds some responsibility for Oklahoma City by pushing McVeigh to violence.  It’s as appalling as Clinton blaming Rush Limbaugh for the exact same thing, and it’s as objectionable as Clinton suggesting in a pre-emptive manner that Tea Parties will be responsible for any acts of violence later.  That shifts the blame away from the individuals who commit terrorist acts and onto those who get victimized by them, at least indirectly.  McVeigh is the one responsible for his actions, not Clinton or Reno, and that holds true for Osama bin Laden, Ted Kaczynski, and Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, too.


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I wonder what President Condi has to say about all this…

It’s Vintage, Duh on April 20, 2010 at 2:55 PM

You might want to take into account that, at the time Morris was writing that book, the majority of HotAir readers most likely agreed with Morris that Condi could very well be the next President. It’s not Morris’ fault that Condi self destructed.

So far, this is still the only example being given by those claiming that Morris has no credibility. Still waiting for examples of him being proven wrong on factual claims.

His opinion/prediction on who would win the Presidency is not exactly evidence of a lack of credibility.

Gregor on April 20, 2010 at 3:00 PM

McVeigh is the one responsible for his actions, not Clinton or Reno, and that holds true for Osama bin Laden, Ted Kaczynski, and Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, too.

Exactly! Each and every one of us INDIVIDUALLY responsible for our own actions. Progressives are hellbent on blunting that message, however, because it interferes with their grand plans to regulate, protect and control us.

Stated in a [large] nutshell: http://freedomkeys.com/collectivism.htm

Logic on April 20, 2010 at 3:01 PM

Morris is now imagining events that never occurred.
Janet Reno was only confirmed the day before Waco started.
She was probably the only one in the administration who was not to blame.
Elian Gonzalez = Yes; Waco = No

lonestar1 on April 20, 2010 at 3:02 PM

@ Ed Morrissey

With respect, I have a problem with your comment, “It’s as appalling as Clinton blaming Rush Limbaugh for the exact same thing” in that

President Clinton was – ahem – a publicly elected official, with a Constitutionally (it’s an adjective, but please allow me the lenience to use a capital “c”) while acknowledged position,

buuuuuuuuut…

Rush Limbaugh is, albeit popular and publicly widespread known, a radio voice.

Therein I find a fundamental and discerning difference.

Lockstein13 on April 20, 2010 at 3:04 PM

Clinton wanted to keep Reno quiet after she took the fall on Waco for him. He wanted a strong upper hand after winning the election and the Clintons had future plans for Hillary to run for president. Newt folded, Janet kept her mouth shut, Foster’s suicide was glossed over, Whitewater was washed away. Get the picture. I’ll bet Dick knows a lot more about Billy. He better have good protection.

Kissmygrits on April 20, 2010 at 3:08 PM

The real question is … what little secret about Reno did Clinton have that compelled her to roll over re Waco?

Labamigo on April 20, 2010 at 3:09 PM

Don’t be so quick to dismiss Dick Morris. He was there! Furthermore, I bet there’s MUCH more that he knows that he hasn’t shared YET.

Leave it to “us,” in general, to turn on someone who’s trying to help us.

I hope Dick has someone taste his food and a remote car starter.

Oink on April 20, 2010 at 3:10 PM

lonestar1 on April 20, 2010 at 3:02 PM

Exactly, she took the fall and Clinton owed her. Clinton was looking for a photo op on Waco and came up with murdering women and children instead. If there had been an aspirin factory close by he wouldn’t have needed Reno.

ORconservative on April 20, 2010 at 3:11 PM

That shifts the blame away from the individuals who commit terrorist acts and onto those who get victimized by them, at least indirectly. McVeigh is the one responsible for his actions, not Clinton or Reno, and that holds true for Osama bin Laden, Ted Kaczynski, and Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, too.

Ed, this is true of course and I doubt that anyone would have said anything that implied otherwise if Clinton had not started yammering about the Tea Party people and scary talk radio.

Terrye on April 20, 2010 at 3:17 PM

Morris is not dependable on everything. But I have found when he talks about the Clintons he is usually right.

petunia on April 20, 2010 at 2:23 PM

Personally, I find Morris’ prognostications are pretty much universally dead wrong. Usually, if he says “X” will happen, I put my chips on “Y”. It kind of bums me out, too since he’s one of those predicting Uber-gains in November. Having said that, I agree that he’s usually pretty dead on on what happened in “Clinton Past.”
He feels the Clintons done did him and da Mrs. wrong, and he’s like the elephant that never forgets. But he’s also an effite little publicity whore.

Chewy the Lab on April 20, 2010 at 3:18 PM

All of this just shows in people’s minds, we have not closed the book on Waco.

And that was the thorn on BillyJeff’s mind as well.

Sir Napsalot on April 20, 2010 at 3:19 PM

Who was it that said “The buck stops here.”? Do we have anyone to accept the buck in this situation? Ruby Ridge and Waco were both instances of Nazis led by the same people exterminating citizens by means of military force. Remember that SLA standoff and firefight in LA? The point: tear gas is flammable. Waco? Tear gas? Ruby Ridge rules of engagement against peaceful people? Fire! Kill the boy and his dog and then murder the wife and mother standing in a doorway. People should be enraged and the Boss should take the hit. But, Slick Willie slithered out and now he’s shooting his big yap off. The buck didn’t stop.

LarryG on April 20, 2010 at 3:22 PM

Yet they couldn’t wouldn’t pull the trigger on bin Laden.

thomasaur on April 20, 2010 at 1:57 PM

Much better.

Chewy the Lab on April 20, 2010 at 3:23 PM

It’s not a deep, dark secret… everyone knows Reno pees standing up.

Texas Rainmaker on April 20, 2010 at 3:24 PM

If you want to attack someone who is telling Bubba he needs to shut his mouth and stop smearing tea partiers as militia,

that’s on you.

Christien on April 20, 2010 at 3:24 PM

Let’s not forget Wesley Clarke allowed Team BJ Clenis to use the Bradley’s. Reportedly it was the sight of the Bradley’s that caused McVeigh to go friggin nuts.

David in ATL on April 20, 2010 at 3:25 PM

For those who don’t remember the day Waco caught fire, Google “religious fanatics murdered themselves”.

The fires were still raging when Clinton spat on the pyre.

sulla on April 20, 2010 at 3:31 PM

I’m getting this from Media Matters, so feel free to disregard

YYZ on April 20, 2010 at 2:17 PM

So this is your other “news source”, in addition to Jon Stewart’s show?

I’m shocked.

Del Dolemonte on April 20, 2010 at 3:37 PM

Janet Reno should have been thrown in jail for ordering the murder of those people at Waco.

nazo311 on April 20, 2010 at 3:37 PM

Who was it that said “The buck stops here.”? Do we have anyone to accept the buck in this situation? Ruby Ridge and Waco were both instances of Nazis led by the same people exterminating citizens by means of military force. Remember that SLA standoff and firefight in LA? The point: tear gas is flammable. Waco? Tear gas? Ruby Ridge rules of engagement against peaceful people? Fire! Kill the boy and his dog and then murder the wife and mother standing in a doorway. People should be enraged and the Boss should take the hit. But, Slick Willie slithered out and now he’s shooting his big yap off. The buck didn’t stop.

LarryG on April 20, 2010 at 3:22 PM

–Oh, come on. The people at Waco got killed because they killed four agents trying to serve a search warrant, were heavily armed and then, in effect, generally decided it was God’s will that they die. They were, by and large, idiots and I, for one, am very happy that they decided to in effect kill themselves and their children. Perhaps other extremist groups can take the hint and do likewise…..

Jimbo3 on April 20, 2010 at 3:40 PM

What this post tells me is that AllahP voted for Clinton, twice.

DaydreamBeliever on April 20, 2010 at 2:22 PM

Another guy who voted for Clinton twice was liberal historian Richard Goodwin, who was an aide to JFK and LBJ. He concluded in a column written a year and a half before Clinton left office that his pResidency was an utter and complete failure.

And he didn’t mention al Qaeda once in his analysis.

Del Dolemonte on April 20, 2010 at 3:41 PM

So far, this is still the only example being given by those claiming that Morris has no credibility. Still waiting for examples of him being proven wrong on factual claims.

His opinion/prediction on who would win the Presidency is not exactly evidence of a lack of credibility.

Gregor on April 20, 2010 at 3:00 PM

“Katrina has the capacity to shape the second Bush term in the same way September 11 shaped his first term—not only in rebuilding New Orleans but in taking preventative steps around the nation to bolster our defenses against natural and man-made disasters and terror strikes. Responding to disasters is a source of presidential strength and popularity, and Bush is about to show how it is done.”

Morris on Bush, 2005.

Del Dolemonte on April 20, 2010 at 3:47 PM

That shifts the blame away from the individuals who commit terrorist acts and onto those who get victimized by them, at least indirectly. McVeigh is the one responsible for his actions, not Clinton or Reno, and that holds true for Osama bin Laden, Ted Kaczynski, and Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, too.

–Perhaps you should remind some of the Hot Air posters about this as well. There have been plenty of them over the last six months blaming Obamacare, prochoicers, etc. for the posters’ inflamed emotions.

Jimbo3 on April 20, 2010 at 3:47 PM

Jimbo3 on April 20, 2010 at 3:40 PM

Really?

ORconservative on April 20, 2010 at 3:55 PM

Jimbo3 on April 20, 2010 at 3:40 PM

Really?

ORconservative on April 20, 2010 at 3:55 PM

–Yes.

Jimbo3 on April 20, 2010 at 3:56 PM

Billy Jeff – the gift that keeps on giving. Sort of like fungus under the toenail.

platypus on April 20, 2010 at 3:56 PM

Jimbo3 on April 20, 2010 at 3:56 PM

I stepped away from the computer for about 20 minutes. I come back and I read your stuff.

Wow. You are beyond all limits of decency. If this was my website, you would be gone already.

platypus on April 20, 2010 at 3:59 PM

Jimbo3 on April 20, 2010 at 3:56 PM
I stepped away from the computer for about 20 minutes. I come back and I read your stuff.

Wow. You are beyond all limits of decency. If this was my website, you would be gone already.

platypus on April 20, 2010 at 3:59 PM

–They killed four government employees and injured sixteen more. Where is your concern for the spouses and children of those employees?

Jimbo3 on April 20, 2010 at 4:05 PM

Perhaps other extremist groups can take the hint and do likewise…..

Jimbo3 on April 20, 2010 at 3:40 PM

You mean like ACORN, DNC, Green Party? I agree…

right2bright on April 20, 2010 at 4:07 PM

The people at Waco got killed because they killed four agents trying to serve a search warrant, were heavily armed and then, in effect, generally decided it was God’s will that they die.

Jimbo3 on April 20, 2010 at 3:40 PM

The agents killed weren’t serving a search warrant wearing full body armor and on the roof of the 2nd floor of the Branch Davidian complex.
They were storming their house.
It has never been ascertained just how “heavily armed” the Branch Davidians were.
Nor that there was “child abuse” going on there, as Janet Reno maintained.
These people didn’t “kill themselves or their children,” the Feds did either on purpose or as good as on purpose.

Funny how Dick Morris claims he’s “got the goods” on Clinton over Waco.
The only man who had the goods on the Clintons over Waco was Vince Foster who conveniently “committed suicide.”

Jenfidel on April 20, 2010 at 4:09 PM

That shifts the blame away from the individuals who commit terrorist acts and onto those who get victimized by them, at least indirectly. McVeigh is the one responsible for his actions, not Clinton or Reno, and that holds true for Osama bin Laden, Ted Kaczynski, and Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, too.

–Perhaps you should remind some of the Hot Air posters about this as well. There have been plenty of them over the last six months blaming Obamacare, prochoicers, etc. for the posters’ inflamed emotions.

Jimbo3 on April 20, 2010 at 3:47 PM

What inflamed emotions? You’re pulling the same sleazy stunt that Clinton pulled, trying to tie Hot Air posters to McVeigh, militias, white supremacists, et al. Take responsibility for your own self, and quit trying to smear others.

tom on April 20, 2010 at 4:11 PM

The agents killed weren’t serving a search warrant wearing full body armor and on the roof of the 2nd floor of the Branch Davidian complex.
They were storming their house.
It has never been ascertained just how “heavily armed” the Branch Davidians were.
Nor that there was “child abuse” going on there, as Janet Reno maintained.
These people didn’t “kill themselves or their children,” the Feds did either on purpose or as good as on purpose.

Funny how Dick Morris claims he’s “got the goods” on Clinton over Waco.
The only man who had the goods on the Clintons over Waco was Vince Foster who conveniently “committed suicide.”

Jenfidel on April 20, 2010 at 4:09 PM

–It’s been conclusively proven that the Branch Davidians had a megabunch of arms and ammunition. They traded those at gun shows. They also received a package of those items from UPS, which started the whole thing. It’s also clear, from statements of the survivors, that Koresh told his followers to go and arm themselves when the federal agents first began to approach the compound. This idea that Waco was the result of something Clinton did makes about as much sense as does the idea that Obama was born in Africa.

Jimbo3 on April 20, 2010 at 4:16 PM

Ruby Ridge, Waco & Elian Gonzalez demonstrated a confidence on the part of the (D)emocrats to use military force… as long as it was against citizens.

DANEgerus on April 20, 2010 at 4:17 PM

What inflamed emotions? You’re pulling the same sleazy stunt that Clinton pulled, trying to tie Hot Air posters to McVeigh, militias, white supremacists, et al. Take responsibility for your own self, and quit trying to smear others.

tom on April 20, 2010 at 4:11 PM

–Tell that to Liam and a few others here.

Jimbo3 on April 20, 2010 at 4:18 PM

Koresh has previously been arrested, peacefully, for arms violations and he beat the rap. The bottom line is that I could have driven up to the compound, requested his surrender, and he would have. There was never a rationalization for the armed assault but excuses regarding child abuse were floated later to justify the siege once the Feds played the fool.

DANEgerus on April 20, 2010 at 4:19 PM

Jimbo3 on April 20, 2010 at 4:05 PM

The government went in to execute a search warrant armed for battle. I have concern for the families of all the dead but the agents were prepared and carried out a siege when all they had to do was arrest the cult leader when he came to town. And likely no one would have died.
Your rant up there is pretty sick.

ORconservative on April 20, 2010 at 4:20 PM

Koresh has previously been arrested, peacefully, for arms violations and he beat the rap. The bottom line is that I could have driven up to the compound, requested his surrender, and he would have. There was never a rationalization for the armed assault but excuses regarding child abuse were floated later to justify the siege once the Feds played the fool.

DANEgerus on April 20, 2010 at 4:19 PM

Jimbo3 on April 20, 2010 at 4:05 PM

The government went in to execute a search warrant armed for battle. I have concern for the families of all the dead but the agents were prepared and carried out a siege when all they had to do was arrest the cult leader when he came to town. And likely no one would have died.
Your rant up there is pretty sick.

ORconservative on April 20, 2010 at 4:20 PM

–Are both of you birthers as well? What makes you think that anyone from the government (except possibly someone who knew Koresh real well and that Koresh trusted) could have taken Koresh peacefully. He thought that the government was his enemy, brainwashed his followers to believe likewise and was heavily armed.

Jimbo3 on April 20, 2010 at 4:24 PM

They did have a bunch of arms, Jimbo. They were a wacky cult, Jimbo. Did they deserve a Rambo Ruby Ridge assault, no probably not.

ORconservative on April 20, 2010 at 4:25 PM

What birthers? How do you go from happy a bunch of religious freaks died to asking about birthers?
You are nuttier than a fruitcake.

ORconservative on April 20, 2010 at 4:27 PM

They did have a bunch of arms, Jimbo. They were a wacky cult, Jimbo. Did they deserve a Rambo Ruby Ridge assault, no probably not.

ORconservative on April 20, 2010 at 4:25 PM

–Well, then maybe they shouldn’t have shot at federal agents and then holed themselves up for 50 days+ refusing to make contact. That would have been a good start, right.

Jimbo3 on April 20, 2010 at 4:28 PM

No, a good start would have been to arrest the guy when he came to town. Apparently going to Ft Hood and getting military training and then going in fully armed seemed like a better idea.

ORconservative on April 20, 2010 at 4:30 PM

What birthers? How do you go from happy a bunch of religious freaks died to asking about birthers?
You are nuttier than a fruitcake.

ORconservative on April 20, 2010 at 4:27 PM

–No. You’re the nutcase. You (apparently) believe that a group of people who shoot and kill federal agents and then wall themselves up for two months are “victims” even though they had tons of guns and ammo and a nutcase leader that had brainwashed them. That makes as much sense as believing that Obama was born in Africa.

Jimbo3 on April 20, 2010 at 4:30 PM

I don’t believe that people who kill anyone are victims.

ORconservative on April 20, 2010 at 4:32 PM

Personally, I find Morris’ prognostications are pretty much universally dead wrong.

Chewy the Lab on April 20, 2010 at 3:18 PM

Still waiting for someone to start listing factual inaccuracies to some of Morris’ claims. You know, something other than pointing out that some of his “predictions” don’t come true. I don’t think Morris is claiming to be Nostradamus.

“Katrina has the capacity to shape the second Bush term in the same way September 11 shaped his first term—not only in rebuilding New Orleans but in taking preventative steps around the nation to bolster our defenses against natural and man-made disasters and terror strikes. Responding to disasters is a source of presidential strength and popularity, and Bush is about to show how it is done.”
Morris on Bush, 2005.

Del Dolemonte on April 20, 2010 at 3:47 PM

Are you suggesting that Katrina didn’t have the “capacity to shape the second Bush term in the same way September 11 shaped his first term?”

Or are you simply saying, once again, that Morris isn’t very good at predictions?

I don’t get it. Still waiting. Maybe I’m not clear. You know? Something to prove that when Morris said something “happened a certain way”, as in past tense, that it’s simply not true.

I know it’s difficult, huh?

Gregor on April 20, 2010 at 4:33 PM

I, for one, am very happy that they decided to in effect kill themselves and their children. Perhaps other extremist groups can take the hint and do likewise…..

Jimbo3 on April 20, 2010 at 3:40 PM

And this person isn’t banned yet? Dirty piece of filth.

Gregor on April 20, 2010 at 4:36 PM

Gregor on April 20, 2010 at 4:36 PM

Exactly.

ORconservative on April 20, 2010 at 4:38 PM

I’m quite sure I read within the last few days an article online about Dick Morris being the one who suggested to Clinton to blame the Okla. City bombing on right wing talk show hosts. I thought, wow, I wonder if Rush knows that. Now I can’t find it to reread it. Did anyone else see that?

silvernana on April 20, 2010 at 4:39 PM

Well, then maybe they shouldn’t have shot at federal agents and then holed themselves up for 50 days+ refusing to make contact. That would have been a good start, right.

Jimbo3 on April 20, 2010 at 4:28 PM

Why is Janet Reno posting on HotAir as Jimbo3? Is this Cass Sunstein’s idea?

Gregor on April 20, 2010 at 4:41 PM

Ed,

Morris is not a “Clinton adviser.” “Former Clinton adviser” is accurate.

Christien on April 20, 2010 at 4:42 PM

http://volokh.com/2010/04/19/waco/

They purposefully gassed the children because they thought it would make the mothers bring them out. This link ought to send shivers of glee down Jimbo’s spine. Those wicked children/sarc

ORconservative on April 20, 2010 at 4:45 PM

Clinton had already won the last election he would ever contest — so what was the danger in kicking Reno out?

Are you kidding me? This man had Ken Star probing his behind, had an impeachment trial, and was eventually impeached and disbarred. Seriously. President Clinton has more credibility to you than Dick Morris? Neither are very credible but Dick isn’t akin to Nixon, and as far as I know, he hasn’t ever had major legal problems

Sultry Beauty on April 20, 2010 at 4:58 PM

Morris doesn’t even know the “big secret.”

Sure he does but he is calling out Bubba publicly trying to draw the ex philanderer-in-Chief into a public debate. Clinton asked for it when he opened his trap about Rush.

When it comes to politics Morris is in the top 3 or 4 political geniuses of our time.

Plus Ed, he was there. He was Bubba’s chief political hack for nearly a decade. Clinton would never have gotten out of Arkansas without Dick Morris.

FireBlogger on April 20, 2010 at 5:01 PM

Jimbo3 on April 20, 2010 at 3:40 PM

Ed and AllahPundit, I have a serious question for you. Does this qualify as proper debate and fit the commenting standards for Hot Air?

Sultry Beauty on April 20, 2010 at 5:02 PM

Well, then maybe they shouldn’t have shot at federal agents and then holed themselves up for 50 days+ refusing to make contact. That would have been a good start, right.

Jimbo3 on April 20, 2010 at 4:28 PM
Why is Janet Reno posting on HotAir as Jimbo3? Is this Cass Sunstein’s idea?

Gregor on April 20, 2010 at 4:41 PM

–I’m not any of them.

Jimbo3 on April 20, 2010 at 5:08 PM

Janet Reno was only confirmed the day before Waco started.
She was probably the only one in the administration who was not to blame.
Elian Gonzalez = Yes; Waco = No
lonestar1 on April 20, 2010 at 3:02 PM

Janet Reno was sworn in By Clinton as Atty Gen on March 12, 1993. The Waco siege had been ongoing since Feb 28, 1993. It was April 19, 1993 when the massacre occured. It was under her watch.

If Janet Reno was blameless, why did she go on tv ( I saw her do it) and take “full responsibility” for Waco? Of course, that responsibility was just a bunch of words; there were no repercussions for Janet then or during her lengthy tenure as AG.

marybel on April 20, 2010 at 5:10 PM

Jimbo3 on April 20, 2010 at 3:40 PM
Ed and AllahPundit, I have a serious question for you. Does this qualify as proper debate and fit the commenting standards for Hot Air?

Sultry Beauty on April 20, 2010 at 5:02 PM

–I also have a serious question. Why does Hot Air allow commenters to effectively glorify people who kill federal agents? Does that qualify as proper debate and fit the commenting standards for Hot Air?

Jimbo3 on April 20, 2010 at 5:10 PM

http://volokh.com/2010/04/19/waco/

They purposefully gassed the children because they thought it would make the mothers bring them out. This link ought to send shivers of glee down Jimbo’s spine. Those wicked children/sarc

ORconservative on April 20, 2010 at 4:45 PM

–I’m absolutely fine with it.

Jimbo3 on April 20, 2010 at 5:14 PM

Jimbo3 on April 20, 2010 at 5:10 PM

Where, exactly, is the glorifying?

Jimbo3 on April 20, 2010 at 5:14 PM

Of course you are.

ORconservative on April 20, 2010 at 5:32 PM

The Waco siege began only 2 days after the first attack on the WTC (Feb 26th). Knowing what we now know, shouldn’t we question the timing?

A.C. McCloud on April 20, 2010 at 5:43 PM

–I’m not any of them.

Jimbo3 on April 20, 2010 at 5:08 PM

You’re either someone connected in some way, or you’re simply a liberal hack troll. Either way, I don’t think there’s much doubt about that. You don’t really think there’s a single person in here that doubts that, do you? You know you’re wasting your time trolling. We just laugh at you, when we’re not gagging.

Why does Hot Air allow commenters to effectively glorify people who kill federal agents?

Jimbo3 on April 20, 2010 at 5:10 PM

You continue to make yourself look stupid. Nobody on here is defending McVeigh. The point is simply being made that he was motivated by the Clinton adminstration and Waco.

But you know this already.

Gregor on April 20, 2010 at 5:48 PM

It’s as appalling as Clinton blaming Rush Limbaugh for the exact same thing, and it’s as objectionable as Clinton suggesting in a pre-emptive manner that Tea Parties will be responsible for any acts of violence later.

The two are only comparable in a terrified mind, afraid of being criticized by opponents as hypocritical, imho.

The facts are, Bill Clinton was President during two horrific abuses of Government power in which Americans, including women and children, were killed. Some by snipers with hand written illegal shoot-to-kill orders and by fire while being attacked by armor. Namely, Waco and Ruby Ridge. There is no parallel with mere political rhetoric that has not only been going on for 200 years here, but is protected in the founding document.

That doesn’t justify what TM did, but, his motivation was far more provocative than what Rush Limbaugh has ever said, or what is said at a PEACEFUL political rally.

TheBigOldDog on April 20, 2010 at 5:50 PM

Why does Hot Air allow commenters to effectively glorify people who kill federal agents?

Jimbo3 on April 20, 2010 at 5:10 PM
You continue to make yourself look stupid. Nobody on here is defending McVeigh. The point is simply being made that he was motivated by the Clinton adminstration and Waco.

But you know this already.

Gregor on April 20, 2010 at 5

–But you are glorifying the people who killed the federal agents at Waco.

Jimbo3 on April 20, 2010 at 5:51 PM

Currently, the two main Dem smears against tea partiers are 1) They’re all racists, and 2) They’re violent militas. Clinton needs to shut his damned mouth and go back to doing what he does best–cheating on his wife. Nobody gives a rat’s azz if it’s Morris or anyone else saying so.

Christien on April 20, 2010 at 5:57 PM

–But you are glorifying the people who killed the federal agents at Waco.

Jimbo3 on April 20, 2010 at 5:51 PM

Continuing to laugh at you. You’re not even very good at trolling. You’re much too obvious, and clueless. Hope they’re not actually paying you for this.

Gregor on April 20, 2010 at 5:57 PM

s/b militias

Christien on April 20, 2010 at 5:57 PM

Not a huge fan of Morris and definitely not of Reno. However, she had to know about Bill’s bimbo erruptions. Bill had a lot of other stuff that an attorney needed to pay attention to 24/7. This man was just as corrupt as Obama is in many, many ways. We just knew about the bimbos. Morris may or may not know, but I am sure Reno does know plenty.

BetseyRoss on April 20, 2010 at 6:00 PM

Continuing to laugh at you. You’re not even very good at trolling. You’re much too obvious, and clueless. Hope they’re not actually paying you for this.

Gregor on April 20, 2010 at 5:57 PM

–Hope your website is not your day job. Lots of missing stuff/stuff under construction there.

Jimbo3 on April 20, 2010 at 6:01 PM

I don’t get it. Still waiting. Maybe I’m not clear. You know? Something to prove that when Morris said something “happened a certain way”, as in past tense, that it’s simply not true.

I know it’s difficult, huh?

Gregor on April 20, 2010 at 4:33 PM

Not really. I found this in 30 seconds.

http://mediamatters.org/search/tag/dick_morris

Del Dolemonte on April 20, 2010 at 6:12 PM

BTW I am a regular critic of Media Matters, but they do raise some good points in my cite about morris’ record.

Del Dolemonte on April 20, 2010 at 6:14 PM

..capricious, gratuitous dif on Morris (whom I do NOT dislike):

Doesn’t anybody worry that if Dick Morris gets any wider, he will explode? If I were Sean Hannity, I’d sure want to cut down on Dick’s appearances in the event that he does so.

Fox would be off for weeks cleaning Morris Goo up off the walls and floors and cameras and crew.

The War Planner on April 20, 2010 at 6:15 PM

Not really. I found this in 30 seconds.

Del Dolemonte on April 20, 2010 at 6:12 PM

You found what? A link to Media matters, lol? Are you too lazy to point out an example of inaccurate claims of facts by Morris that you found, or do you think a link to a website containing a bunch of other links pretty much covers it?

Still waiting. If you found something on that site, let’s hear it?

Gregor on April 20, 2010 at 6:17 PM

–Hope your website is not your day job. Lots of missing stuff/stuff under construction there.

Jimbo3 on April 20, 2010 at 6:01 PM

Yeah, that’s usually what “under construction” means. You’re pretty smart, arn’t you. Gee, I hope the guys building that complex across the street aren’t real contractors. The building is not finished yet! Lot’s of missing walls! Heh.

And no, my day job has absolutely nothing to do with it. Hope your day job isn’t trolling conservative websites, but I’m pretty sure it is.

Gregor on April 20, 2010 at 6:22 PM

BTW I am a regular critic of Media Matters, but they do raise some good points in my cite about morris’ record.

Dude, you mocked me for using Media Matters as a source, like, two hours ago! What gives?

YYZ on April 20, 2010 at 6:30 PM

As an Okie who had a relative blooded in the murrah/journal record blast, I can say that it was prompted by the clinton atrocity at Waco. In fact, clinton was responsible for about the same number of collaterally murdered children at Waco as mcveigh in OKC. Only, clinton did it slowly and with feeling. If George bush had been responsible for the same destruction of American citizens, He would have been tried for war crimes – in fact some dimocrapts are trying to do that even now. Clinton did nothing different than milosavich, pol pot, saddam hussain, etc. The socialist-democrapt creeps have wanted to try George Bush for war crimes. When are we going to do the same to clinton.

Ed, your new owners have really pulled your fangs.

Old Country Boy on April 20, 2010 at 6:42 PM

The big secret?

The US Government massacred American men, women, and children, over a $200 tax dispute.

Rebar on April 20, 2010 at 1:48 PM

Ummmm, no. David Koresh and his kook followers mass murdered woman and children. During the fire, the Davidians went around killing mass amounts of people. Then they committed suicide. The others who died, died in the fire, because the other Davidians wouldn’t let them out.

Narutoboy on April 20, 2010 at 7:18 PM

What makes you think that anyone from the government (except possibly someone who knew Koresh real well and that Koresh trusted) could have taken Koresh peacefully.

Jimbo3 on April 20, 2010 at 4:24 PM

Well, let’s see. It’s a known fact that he left the compound to make trips in town. I’m pretty sure he didn’t pack every womaqn and child in his group in that van. There was plenty of open road between the compound and town that they could have set up a roadblock. It seems to me that saving even one of those lives and probably all of the federal agents would be a better alternative.

I’ve noticed that your posts are never contributory, just insulting and inflammatory. Is there a liberal out there that can actually argue a position or are they all drama queens like you?

John Deaux on April 20, 2010 at 7:19 PM

Years ago I read a report commissioned by the govt and conducted by non-govt. experts and found out that the raid was terribly botched.
One little detail most don’t know about. When the tanks were punching holes “around back” in the gymnasium, they were killing women and children by crushing them and thru causing debris to fall. You see, they had gathered there for safety.
As for shooting to death everyone, it turns out many were killed by falling debris as the compound burned and collapsed inward. Yes some kids were shot, but there was speculation it was a mercy killing by parents to keep them from burning to death and that they shot themselves afterwards.
No, I’m not saying the agents went in with intent to slaughter everyone or that they did nothing wrong.

Hard Right on April 20, 2010 at 8:04 PM

I wonder if Morris and others signed some form of non-disclosure agreement about Waco and other events that might have recently expired?

I was reading Rush’s site and he muses that there were no “tell all” books about the Clinton years and that it surprised him but maybe it shouldn’t have?

journeyintothewhirlwind on April 20, 2010 at 8:13 PM

Yes some kids were shot, but there was speculation it was a mercy killing by parents to keep them from burning to death and that they shot themselves afterwards.
No, I’m not saying the agents went in with intent to slaughter everyone or that they did nothing wrong.

Hard Right on April 20, 2010 at 8:04 PM

Please don’t tell me you actually believe that tripe. They, the Davidians, slaughtered each other. Here’s an idea: When you have ATF/cops at your compound-rather than barricading yourself inside, surrender.

Narutoboy on April 20, 2010 at 8:33 PM

First, Morris doesn’t have the best reputation for credibility…

Infinity + one, Morris doesn’t have the best reputation for even being a good snake.

ericdijon on April 20, 2010 at 8:59 PM

Hey Narutoboy, learn to read. It was a report commissioned by the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT and done by CIVILIAN EXPERTS.
That was their findings and I will take their word over your uninformed one.

Hard Right on April 20, 2010 at 9:36 PM

BTW, the kids found shot were in the “bunker” where the last surviviors ran to thinking it might save them from the fire. They found out otherwise.

Hard Right on April 20, 2010 at 9:41 PM

SEDITION!!!

Jim-Rose on April 20, 2010 at 9:43 PM

More info. The Davidians had a .50 rifle in one of the windows. The Negotiator got them to remove it. The tactical leader was cheesed. He said they had been working around it and when it was in the window, they knew where it was. Now, it could pop up anywhere.

Hard Right on April 20, 2010 at 9:44 PM

Perhaps this recent blog post by Dave Kopel sheds some light on Dick Morris’s credibility on the Waco/Reno episode.

http://volokh.com/2010/04/20/waco-2/

chasmartel on April 20, 2010 at 10:24 PM

Morris is now imagining events that never occurred.
Janet Reno was only confirmed the day before Waco started.
She was probably the only one in the administration who was not to blame.
Elian Gonzalez = Yes; Waco = No

lonestar1 on April 20, 2010 at 3:02 PM

No dirt to be found nor blame to be had? Are you kidding me? She was very much involved when tanks circled the plywood church, which just so happened to burn down after they rammed holes through it on a very windy day.

Maybe she had the tapes of the initial raid, which just so happened to disappear, or maybe she keeps the door with all the ballistics evidence it possesses of the initial raid, in a shed in her backyard, since that also got “disappeared”. For a raid with the codename Showtime, they sure were clumsy with they tapes they made of it, just disappearing left and right.

LevStrauss on April 20, 2010 at 11:54 PM

Ed said, “Most importantly, though, I dislike the idea of giving McVeigh any credibility by suggesting that Clinton holds some responsibility for Oklahoma City by pushing McVeigh to violence. It’s as appalling as Clinton blaming Rush Limbaugh for the exact same thing, and it’s as objectionable as Clinton suggesting in a pre-emptive manner that Tea Parties will be responsible for any acts of violence later. That shifts the blame away from the individuals who commit terrorist acts and onto those who get victimized by them, at least indirectly. McVeigh is the one responsible for his actions, not Clinton or Reno, and that holds true for Osama bin Laden, Ted Kaczynski, and Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, too.

Clinton blaming talk radio for the OKC bombing or for potential violence is infinitely more appalling than saying that McVeigh was influenced to do what he did by the government’s unexcusable stupidity and criminal recklessness in Waco. McVeigh, undeniably a nutjob who is alone responsible for his actions, was also undeniably provoked by what happened at Waco. Without Waco, there wouldn’t have been an OKC bombing, just like how Matt and Trey wouldn’t be receiving death threats now if they hadn’t made the SP episode with Muhammed references in it.

To make myself perfectly clear, I am not blaming Clinton for what McVeigh did, just like how I am not blaming Matt and Trey for those who threaten to kill them. What I am saying is Leftists like Clinton see the free exercise of legal speech as potentially dangerous because it might rile loons up enough to commit crimes, and thus is a ‘real’ problem that should be controlled, while they give themselves a pass for anything they do, even their illegal behaviors which do cause justifiable anger in anyone who isn’t a partisan Leftist, some of who are dangerously crazy like McVeigh was. In other words, typical behavior for Leftists.

What happened at Waco is exactly what Clinton and his ilk has projected onto talk radio and the tea parties, but somehow, when they legitimately can be accused of inflammatory behavior, it goes unmentioned/uncondemned by them. I HATE Leftists…

Bizarro No. 1 on April 21, 2010 at 12:12 AM

–Oh, come on. The people at Waco got killed because they killed four agents trying to serve a search warrant, were heavily armed and then, in effect, generally decided it was God’s will that they die. They were, by and large, idiots and I, for one, am very happy that they decided to in effect kill themselves and their children. Perhaps other extremist groups can take the hint and do likewise…..

Jimbo3 on April 20, 2010 at 3:40 PM

Yes, yes. No matter that the government did much wrong, initially from trumping up charges against the Branch Davidians and choosing confrontation over conversation with them, it’s still the Branch Davidians complete fault they got massacred.

Oh, you make a perfect statist apologist, comrade. Or should I say that you bow exceptionally well in front of your king, George III? Either way, good job, serf!

Bizarro No. 1 on April 21, 2010 at 12:42 AM

–Oh, come on. The people at Waco got killed because they killed four agents trying to serve a search warrant, were heavily armed and then, in effect, generally decided it was God’s will that they die. They were, by and large, idiots and I, for one, am very happy that they decided to in effect kill themselves and their children. Perhaps other extremist groups can take the hint and do likewise…..

Jimbo3 on April 20, 2010 at 3:40 PM

I have no sympathy for David Koresh and the Branch Davidians, but…their children??? Jesus Christ.

Go take a look at some of the photos from the aftermath of the compound fire. Check out the charred corpses of the mothers and their children, fused together by the heat of the blaze.

If you can do that and seriously say that you think any child deserves that, for any reason, you really ought to castrate yourself for the sake of the human species.

Cylor on April 21, 2010 at 3:22 AM

It is my opinion that Clinton owes his election to Timothy McVeigh. Clinton was being chopped into giblet meat politically, prior to Tim McVeigh. After that, the media came alive with hate propaganda directed at “Evil right wingers”, and voices which were previously clamoring for less government were cowed into silence.

McVeigh is the best thing that ever happened to Bill Clinton.

DiogenesLamp on April 21, 2010 at 10:39 AM

This may be the scandal Moriss alludes to.

Approving a FBI strategy of using CS gas, for a minimum of 48 hours, at WACO because you know the childen do not have gas masks, with the aim of pressuring the parents to leave the compound, might well be considered beyond the pale,even for the nation’s first Black president.

This from Confederate Yankee “CS gas was used at the compound, in order, as senior White House adviser George Stephanopoulos said, echoing senior Justice Department statements, to “try and pressure” those in the compound. It was hoped, he said, that as this “pressure was increased, the maternal instincts of the mothers might take over and they might try to leave with their kids” (Washington Times, April 23, 1995).

But the FBI knew beforehand that adults in the compound had gas masks; the gas therefore would not put pressure on them. On whom, then? If the FBI knew that the adults had gas masks, but went ahead with the gas attack anyway, it is plain that this “pressure” was brought directly against the children because, as the FBI knew, they could not fit into adult– size gas masks. “Maternal feelings”, the FBI hoped, would be unleashed in the mothers by watching their children choking, gasping and blistering from the gas.

The plan Reno approved and took to President Clinton for approval contemplated the children choking in the gas unprotected for forty-eight hours if necessary, to produce the requisite “maternal feelings”. By taking aim at the children with potentially lethal gas, their mothers would be compelled, according to the FBI plan repeatedly defended by the Clinton administration afterwards as “rational” planning, to flee with them into the arms of those trying to gas them. [Emphasis added.]

An independent report on Waco written by the Harvard Professor of Law and Psychiatry, Alan A. Stone, for the then Deputy Attorney General Philip Heymann, says it “is difficult to believe that the US government would deliberately plan to expose twenty-five children, most of them infants and toddlers, to CS gas for forty-eight hours”. Unfortunately, however, that appears to have been exactly the plan.

The effect of CS gas on an unprotected infant exposed for only two to three hours is discussed in the report; in that case report, dating from the early 1970s, the child’s symptoms during the first twenty-four hours were upper respiratory; but, within forty-eight hours his face showed evidence of first degree burns, and he was in severe respiratory distress typical of chemical pneumonia. The infant had cyanosis, required urgent positive pressure pulmonary care, and was hospitalized for twenty– eight days. Other signs of toxicity appeared, including an enlarged liver.

Professor Stone’s report is measured, careful and damning.

There is more at Volkoh and Dr. Stone’s report suggests that some of the infants, toddlers, and children died as a direct result of suffocation caused by the CS gas.

President William Jefferson Clinton signed off on a plan that he knew would cause innocent babies and children to suffer the effects of CS gas… in fact, the entire plan hinged upon their torture and suffering.

Someone please explain to me why Clinton should not be brought up on felony charges and spend the rest of his life in prison for agreeing to a plan that counted on the torture of 25 innocent infants and children. Convince me that he shouldn’t face the death penalty for those that suffocated to death because of his decision.

Clinton had the audacity to try to tell us Sunday to be wary of another Timothy McVeigh. Evil bastard that he was, McVeigh’s plan didn’t hinge on the torture and abuse of children. Bill Clinton’s did.”

davod on April 21, 2010 at 10:50 AM

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