NYT/CBS poll: Meet the tea partiers

posted at 9:54 pm on April 14, 2010 by Allahpundit

CBS’s write-up is more comprehensive than the Times’s is, but if you can spare 15 minutes, I recommend scrolling through the easily scannable crosstabs for comparisons between tea partiers and the population at large. They made sure to cover all their fringe-y bases with the questions, asking respondents not only about the Paulnut crusade to end the Fed but even whether people had bought gold coins recently. (Most hadn’t.) No doubt the media will be riding its favorite hobbyhorse tomorrow — TPers turn out to be more likely than the average joe to be Birthers, to believe that the White House favors blacks over whites, and to say that too much is made of problems facing blacks — but if I were a lefty, here’s what would lead tomorrow’s talking points. Yowza.

ssmed

If you’re doing 60+ percent on federal entitlements among tea partiers, there’s hope yet for ObamaCare. Another surprise:

taxfair

Didn’t the word “tea” in the movement originally stand for “taxed enough already”? More surprises: The number who say abortion should be either legal or legal with restrictions is 65 percent, while the number who prefer to keep gun laws as they are now instead of relaxing them further is 55 percent. Tea partiers do love Palin, but not even they want to see her as president: The split is 40/47 (versus 26/63 for the general population). This one’s my favorite narrative-buster, though. File it away for reference the next time you’re warned that the tea party is going to derail the red wave in November:

thirdparty

They’re less likely than the average person to support third parties. I’ll leave you with a quote from the NYT piece that’s offered, tacitly, as representative of the movement:

“I just feel he’s getting away from what America is,” said Kathy Mayhugh, 67, a retired medical transcriber in Jacksonville. “He’s a socialist. And to tell you the truth I think he’s a Muslim and trying to head us in that direction, I don’t care what he says. He’s been in office over a year and can’t find a church to go to. That doesn’t say much for him.”

They didn’t even poll the Obama/Muslim question, but they did poll the one about socialism. Exit question via Karl’s Twitter feed: How come the general population’s response to this wasn’t given more prominence?

socialism

Update: An excellent point from the comments which I should have caught myself: Most tea partiers are older, which doubtless helps explain those numbers on Medicare and Social Security. Among the general population, 50 percent of the Times’s sample was 45 or older; among tea partiers, it was 75 percent, with 29 percent 65 or older. Still, the point remains — even among the most devoutly fiscally conservative populist movement in America, self-interest trumps ideology when it comes to entitlements.


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the fed gives an entitlement, then uses it as a bludgeon. Cuts to teachers, medicare, SS and the list goes on. If entitlements are cut, cut them out 5 years from now and taper off the crack, America. come on.

ted c on April 14, 2010 at 9:58 PM

Oh, good. ‘nother poll. That makes, what, three today?

Goo thing the diviners don’t read goat entrails, we’d be running out of goats at this rate.

Skandia Recluse on April 14, 2010 at 9:59 PM

No surprise about Social Security and Medicare. A lot of Tea Party faithful are older folks. I’m sure they’d support reforming those programs, but they’re not gonna give them up entirely after paying into them for 30-40 years.

Not sure what to think about the Palin response. I’m curious who they would back for President over her. Certainly not Mittens or Huckster. Please God let it not be Ron Paul.

As for the socialism question, duh! That’s one of the most prominent themes at the Tea Party. The march toward socialism.

Doughboy on April 14, 2010 at 10:00 PM

but even whether people had bought gold coins recently. (Most hadn’t.)

They’re smart, with gold being as high as it is right now.

unclesmrgol on April 14, 2010 at 10:02 PM

They made sure to cover all their fringe-y bases with the questions,

for once, JUST ONCE, i’d LOVE to hear the leftist media ask the same “fringe” questions to the dems.

the democrats, by my count, in the last 10 years, have a big chunk that believes:

-bush stole the 2000 election, because of foxnews
-bush stole the 2004 election, because of diebold
-300 swift boat veterans, some with bullets still in their bodies, decided to tell 100% lies against the honorable john “us army acts like genghis khan” kerry, because of karl rove or something
-bush caused the death of 3000 americans in 9/11 in order to…. build a pipeline from the caspian sea or something, and some bankers in houston would profit

everytime chris matthews talks about “birthers” i literally shout at my tv “WHAT ABOUT THE DEMOCRAT CONSPIRACY THEORIES”

picklesgap on April 14, 2010 at 10:03 PM

A CBS/ NYT Poll? Gee what could be more reliable? Perhaps an Acorn/SEIU sponsored poll might be less manipulated. Give me a break.

Haunches on April 14, 2010 at 10:04 PM

If I was being told I was being called by CBS/NY Times for a poll, I would certainly lie. But that’s just me.

SouthernGent on April 14, 2010 at 10:05 PM

if I were a lefty, here’s what would lead tomorrow’s talking points.

That’s cool and all but what would you have written if you weren’t a lefty?
‘Cause I don’t see that viewpoint in this post.

Stephen M on April 14, 2010 at 10:06 PM

lets tea bag those democ-rats.

moonbatkiller on April 14, 2010 at 10:06 PM

If you’re doing 60+ percent on federal entitlements among tea partiers, there’s hope yet for ObamaCare

Wrong, Allah. Even I back SS/Medicare — it was promised to current retirees/late-career employees, and in THEORY you get back what you pay in. Eventually it can end (and keep taxing people in their 20s to pay for the bloated budgets, and in return they get to keep their own money), but as of now, it’s still a good idea

picklesgap on April 14, 2010 at 10:06 PM

Didn’t the word “tea” in the movement originally stand for “taxed enough already”?

No, but the flaw in the question is that people aren’t necessarily protesting their own taxes anyway (we all know 47% or so don’t even pay taxes). What they needed to poll was whether they think the the country is overtaxed — job-creating businesses and big spenders, for example. CBS knows that if they spin the question to individual taxation, they’re guaranteed to get a majority who think their taxes are fair.

Ronnie on April 14, 2010 at 10:07 PM

You cannot have widely desparate numbers in the socialism question and the tax question. It’s the same question —another clue that the “poll” is manipulated.

Haunches on April 14, 2010 at 10:07 PM

The media owes Joe the Plumber their abject apologies.

I won’t be holding my breath on that one.

Of course Obozo isn’t a socialist; he just supports socialistic policies and has a history that is entwined with communist mentors. That’s all. Nothing to it. Move along, folks; nothing to see here.

My, how this country has fallen.

hillbillyjim on April 14, 2010 at 10:07 PM

but if I were a lefty, here’s what would lead tomorrow’s talking points. Yowza.

No. If you were a lefty, you’d lead with it tonight… oh wait.

BPD on April 14, 2010 at 10:09 PM

Nice poll, geez, they manage to offer different grades of responses for every question.

Bishop on April 14, 2010 at 10:09 PM

Seriously, polls are like weather forecasts; sometimes they get it right and most of the time my guess is as good as theirs. Interesting post and information though.

carbon_footprint on April 14, 2010 at 10:19 PM

The most amazing thing is that they did this poll in the first place. Aren’t tea partiers just a bunch of knuckle draggers whose opinions are worthless?

RedRedRice on April 14, 2010 at 10:21 PM

Oh my! The whole enterprise reeks of fear and desperation.

The Donks are scared shitless.

Bruno Strozek on April 14, 2010 at 10:21 PM

It’s a pity that they didn’t do a poll on how well the “smart powah” foreign policy is working.

hillbillyjim on April 14, 2010 at 10:23 PM

Great question about whether violent action is ever justified against the government, why did I just know that type of question would sneak in?

Bishop on April 14, 2010 at 10:24 PM

No matter what that weather poll says, I’m going to give election day a 100% chance of a hurricane….

NO—-vember

ted c on April 14, 2010 at 10:25 PM

“They didn’t even poll the Obama/Muslim question, but they did poll the one about socialism.”

I wonder what the poll numbers would be if this question was asked…?

“Please take out a picture of your Grandchildren…

… and knowing that Obowmacare and the rest of his policies will turn them into hobos living under a bridge, how do you feel about it now?”

Seven Percent Solution on April 14, 2010 at 10:27 PM

Anybody seen the article on biggovernment.com,Brad Thor,that the nyt is about to go public with a list of names of men and women covertly working in Afghanistan providing force protection for our troops? This is an outrage and if you get a chance,send the nyt an email.

ohiobabe on April 14, 2010 at 10:28 PM

CBS/NYT polls…?

d1carter on April 14, 2010 at 10:28 PM

From the CBS link:

Fifty-nine percent of Americans overall say the country is on the wrong track.

I’d bet my left nut that they won’t be beating on this particular drum anytime soon.

hillbillyjim on April 14, 2010 at 10:29 PM

Anybody seen the article on biggovernment.com,Brad Thor,that the nyt is about to go public with a list of names of men and women covertly working in Afghanistan providing force protection for our troops? This is an outrage and if you get a chance,send the nyt an email.

ohiobabe on April 14, 2010 at 10:28 PM

ohiobabe: In my book,that is called, TREASON!

canopfor on April 14, 2010 at 10:30 PM

ohiobabe: In my book,that is called, TREASON!

canopfor on April 14, 2010 at 10:30 PM

in the NYT’s book, that’s called “news”

ted c on April 14, 2010 at 10:32 PM

nite folks

ted c on April 14, 2010 at 10:32 PM

I am 56 and all for them doing something to fix Social Security and would be for than happy if they would let me keep my current insurance instead of forcing me to use Medicare. I would delay receiving Social Security if it would help. Heck, I would try like heck not to apply for it at all if I could.

Cindy Munford on April 14, 2010 at 10:32 PM

canopfor on April 14, 2010 at 10:30 PM

Yet they were ringing the OMG bell about Valerie Plame and Scooter and Karl…

Hypocritical whores there at the “Gray Lady”. More like a used-up whore than any stripe of lady, if you ask

hillbillyjim on April 14, 2010 at 10:34 PM

Great question about whether violent action is ever justified against the government, why did I just know that type of question would sneak in?

Bishop on April 14, 2010 at 10:24 PM

Did they ask that of Campus Democrats during the Bushitler years?

ddrintn on April 14, 2010 at 10:34 PM

I’d bet my left nut that they won’t be beating on this particular drum anytime soon.

hillbillyjim on April 14, 2010 at 10:29 PM

hillbillyjim:I do hope,your right one reaches consensus,
and re-joins your left one,ahem!!:)(i kid).

canopfor on April 14, 2010 at 10:37 PM

Right now I have little doubt that the wheels are coming off the wagon before November. My only question is will it be intentional, incidental or conspiratorial.
At this point the left has to force confrontations and see if that will stem the tide. Otherwise they are headed for the ash heap.

ontherocks on April 14, 2010 at 10:37 PM

Tea party supporters are wealthier and more well-educated than the general public, tend to be Republican, white, male, and married, and their strong opposition to the Obama administration is more rooted in political ideology than anxiety about their personal economic well-being, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll.
———————————————————–

and their strong opposition to the Obama administration is more rooted in political ideology
=====================================
Umm,hello,he’s only destroying America!!!!!!

canopfor on April 14, 2010 at 10:41 PM

I’ll be at one of those TEA PARTY protests tomorrow at noon……gonna be glorious!!!

T–Taxed
E–Enough
A–Already

And it’s not the Federal payroll taxes that’s a big deal it’s all the other CRAP….Social Security/Medicare/Local sales taxes 10% everytime you buy something. Property taxes, use taxes, Extra “just a penny” tax proposals right and left…..THEY NEVER GET ENOUGH OF OUR MONEY!!!!

Like Great Grandpa always said (back in the day when you sold chickens to pay your taxes)…..

“Everybody want’s your chickens”

PappyD61 on April 14, 2010 at 10:42 PM

The Tea Party has changed everything…how many will show up in DC tomorrow? and how will the media cover it?

d1carter on April 14, 2010 at 10:43 PM

even among the most devoutly fiscally conservative populist movement in America, self-interest trumps ideology when it comes to entitlements.

My mom is 76 and lives on social security, Allah. What is she supposed to do?

Any changes made to SS will leave people too old to change plans without a chance. I send her money every two weeks, but it’s not enough to make up for SS.

disa on April 14, 2010 at 10:47 PM

Totally Off Topic, except it was on the CBS site linked above:

Horror story.

hillbillyjim on April 14, 2010 at 10:48 PM

To hell with all these polls.I have a idea forget these polls in Nov WE WIN THEY LOOSE.

thmcbb on April 14, 2010 at 10:51 PM

Five or Six Day week, 40 Year Career

I used to groan every time “the greatest generation” was mentioned as the examples around me came off as the worst examples of the nanny state you can imagine.

Then I studied on who was my boss for a while.

Ha! He didn’t want or expect cradle to grave care. He just wanted a break at the end of the day. He felt that at 60 or 65 most folks had a body falling apart, a brain not as sharp as it could be and, working or trying to work, had done enough. Time to enjoy the remains of the day.

And on taxes, keep older people people talking long enough and they think of excise taxes, sales taxes, local and state taxes…mention THAT to these souls on SS and watch them start becoming upset. Your poll just cited income tax. Aside from the Dems’ progressive loading to hit the “rich”, we are still in the “irresponsible” Bush tax cuts.

Among most moderate workers, a good portion of them can’t say what they pay, just what they get back.

And beneath it all, they resent the folks looking for their “Obama Money” and those with two or four kids in tow while they are doing it really gets them upset. The GOP can’t exploit that, however.

IlikedAUH2O on April 14, 2010 at 10:53 PM

This is really strange because I’ve been to so many rallies and protests where the numbers range from 100 to 6000, from Houston to Austin, and my own personal experience talking with all those people in different cities is the exact opposite to those poll results. I mean, if those numbers are accurate, then how is this movement gaining speed? What is the driving force? You don’t have your kid take a sign that reads, “thanks for the financial shackles, D.C.” to a rally when you’re going to tell a pollster that your tax burden is “fair” and that the cost of entitlements is worth it! Frankly, if these numbers are correct, then the Tea Party should never have happened. But it did So what gives? Why are people gathering by the thousands in hundreds of cities all across the U.S., after having done so for over a year, when in the end everything is all fine according to these poll numbers? And how do those poll results jive with the question about Obama and Socialism?

Weight of Glory on April 14, 2010 at 10:54 PM

People that still believe that any ‘polling’ is actually being done in any of these ‘polls’ make me laugh.the

Take the all-too-frequent 2012 GOP frontrunners polling…. Huckabee generally leads or is near the top… now, be honest: has anyone actually ever met a Huckabee supporter in the past 18 months?

BPD on April 14, 2010 at 11:00 PM

Didn’t the word “tea” in the movement originally stand for “taxed enough already”?

No.

It was a convenient and misleading acronym that came about after the fact.

The rampant spending has always been the central issue.

The Democrats and MSM has been trying to frame the tea party as a strictly anti-tax, “anti-government” movement ever since.

forest on April 14, 2010 at 11:02 PM

Cindy Munford on April 14, 2010 at 10:32 PM

I’m 58 and agree with you.

Connie on April 14, 2010 at 11:04 PM

Cindy Munford on April 14, 2010 at 10:32 PM

I’m 58 and agree with you.

Connie on April 14, 2010 at 11:04 PM

I’m 39, and I’d be happy to forgo every single cent of “benefits” that I would be “entitled” to if I could just stop paying into the black hole. I’ve been self-employed almost my whole adult life (paying full boat on FICA instead of 50% employee rate) and have matched employees’ half on payroll for about 7 years. I just want it to be phased out to cut losses.

forest on April 14, 2010 at 11:12 PM

Still, the point remains — even among the most devoutly fiscally conservative populist movement in America, self-interest trumps ideology when it comes to entitlements.

Cut us older folks some slack, Allah. I paid taxes all my life. I can’t change my plans for retirement at this point, and those plans include relying on the entitlements that are in place and have been for many years. Most of us older folks are in the same boat. If we were younger and had other options it would be different.

novaculus on April 14, 2010 at 11:14 PM

Cindy Munford on April 14, 2010 at 10:32 PM

I’m 58 and agree with you.

Connie on April 14, 2010 at 11:04 PM

I’m 55 and am with both of you.
And there is only one poll that counts, and it’s in November. The rest of these polls are just products competing for our attention and signifying zero.

ontherocks on April 14, 2010 at 11:14 PM

I’ve been to several TEA Parties and that data don’t jive with personal experience.

Smart money says this is just another attack from the leftist media on something that scares them greatly.

jukin on April 14, 2010 at 11:20 PM

Yeah, there’s something about these polls that just don’t pass the smell test.

The idea that a tea partier can be pigeonholed into any one box really bothers me. Of course, that’s the whole point behind these things.

Red Cloud on April 14, 2010 at 11:26 PM

To Cindy and “onthe rocks” -

Yep. I am 67, but have no immediate wish to retire. As self-employed payer of the whole damn nine yards, I would be delighted to sign off all SS forever if they would just let me stop paying the damned taxes! I sometimes think I am personally supporting half of The Villages.

materialist on April 14, 2010 at 11:29 PM

Politicians should wake up and take advantage of people willing to suffer a bit if they will do what it really takes to get the economy in order. They would probably be amazed at what people would be willing to do it they would just stop spending money. When they spend like there is no tomorrow, people want “theirs” before it’s all gone.

Cindy Munford on April 14, 2010 at 11:34 PM

materialist on April 14, 2010 at 11:29 PM

You are my hero!!!!

Cindy Munford on April 14, 2010 at 11:34 PM

materialist on April 14, 2010 at 11:29 PM

You are my hero!!!!

Cindy Munford on April 14, 2010 at 11:34 PM

Unfortunately politicians don’t do what it takes, they just take, and that’s what we’re gonna change.

materialist you hang in there, we are about to reach critical mass, and our side is best equipped to cope.

ontherocks on April 14, 2010 at 11:43 PM

They must have spent a fortune on this poll…it is very long which means a lower response rate. Also, I think only about 1/4th the people self-id as TPers. To give an idea it used to be a rule of thumb that you could get only 1 out of 7 calls completed. So they made 881*4*7 calls just for the TP people (25K).

The questions were a combination of

Typical moronic questions…Do you think providing government benefits to poor people encourages them to remain poor, or does it help them until they begin to stand on their own? (I think it is a little more complicated than that)

Push questions to get a desired response for an article to fit their narrative, (race questions, plus Do you get a SocSec check, which will be used for the hypocrisy angle)

and a whole bunch of intrusive questions (like where do you get your info). Think if they asked these questions of the anti War/Bush people…outrage squared.

The good news is the the TPers are feared. The bad news, the Lefty machine is huge and has lots of money, ink and airtime.

r keller on April 14, 2010 at 11:46 PM

ontherocks on April 14, 2010 at 11:43 PM

In fairness to the politician (and I hate being fair to them) usually the only correspondence they receive from the constituents is the “gimme” folks. It probably gives them a skewed idea of just what people are willing to do. They would also have to do some good faith spending roll backs and stop passing 2800 page bills that no one has read.

Cindy Munford on April 15, 2010 at 12:02 AM

Who did they poll!? Daily Kos, Democratic Underground. These aren’t the responses I get when I talk to TP’iers.

SoldiersMom on April 15, 2010 at 12:06 AM

Allah, there is a reason the SS and Medicare question polls the way it does: They’ve paid into it their entire lives.

Most people view SS and Medicare as an insurance policy they’ve paid into.

In most people’s mind that is not a true “entitlement” because they feel they’re only getting back what is rightly theirs.

ButterflyDragon on April 15, 2010 at 12:08 AM

Update: An excellent point from the comments which I should have caught myself: Most tea partiers are older, which doubtless helps explain those numbers on Medicare and Social Security. Among the general population, 50 percent of the Times’s sample was 45 or older; among tea partiers, it was 75 percent, with 29 percent 65 or older. Still, the point remains — even among the most devoutly fiscally conservative populist movement in America, self-interest trumps ideology when it comes to entitlements.

In my experience, and I’ve done a fair amount of research on the topic – old people tend to want to cut social security. I have a few theories on that, none of which are interesting.

But I can’t remember an NES study that doesn’t confirm that. For whatever it’s worth.

Onto the main topic: I’m not trusting any polls of Tea Partiers, because the movement has a motive to be dishonest. If they want to paint themselves as a bipartisan/nonpartisan movement, then why not say you’re a Democrat? I mean, if you’re just sampling random Americans in a phone call, it doesn’t matter (even though you still get misreporting in some cases, especially with stuff like religion), but if you’re a political group with an interest in portraying yourself to be a certain way, why wouldn’t you lie a little?

I mean, maybe the numbers are accurate and maybe they’re not – but it’d be like if you polled a bunch of Iraq War protesters in 2003 – I bet 25% would claim to be Republicans even though they weren’t.

Proud Rino on April 15, 2010 at 12:13 AM

Cindy Munford on April 15, 2010 at 12:02 AM

Hey kiddo, fairness and politicians are like oil and water.
It’s not about who they are hearing from, but more about their own (astute, maybe) political soundings that they operate from.
And good faith almost never is involved.
I do admire your noble interpretation, but don’t count on this current crop of cretins because nobility and good faith haven’t recently been sighted.

ontherocks on April 15, 2010 at 12:16 AM

The Tea Party movement has always struck me as more an anti-Obama movement than anything else (thus the favorable inclination towards Medicare). If it were a true anti-tax and anti-government spending crusade, than you would have seen this movement sprout up, oh I don’t know, about forty years ago, instead of a few weeks into the Obama administration. It was always a canard that the Tea Party was bipartisan – it’s mostly white conservatives who happen to be angry (and no, I don’t think they’re racists).

Not saying the concerns aren’t valid, mind you, just that the “movement” doesn’t strike me as being more than the sum of its parts. I think this poll is indicative of that.

YYZ on April 15, 2010 at 12:35 AM

I’m also 39 and willing to forego what I’ve paid in if they would just start phasing the thing out already. It is unsustainable. Of course you’re going to get a different response from people already getting benefits, but what do we expect? They’ve worked their arses off paying into it for 40 years. They want their money back! I hate the tax code with all of its little deductions and credits aimed at social engineering, but do I itemize my return? D@mn straight, I do. Whatever helps me to keep as much of my own money as I can; I think I know how to spend it better than the govt. does.

Also, to the question that people don’t feel overtaxed — I don’t really either, but then my marginal rate hasn’t been jacked up 4% yet, and my capital gains are still being taxed at 15% instead of 20. It’s entirely possible that “taxed enough already” means “we’re giving you all we’re giving you and not a penny more.” People are anticipating taxes will have to go up based on the rampant spending going on and they’re trying to apply the breaks.

NoLeftTurn on April 15, 2010 at 12:39 AM

breaks brakes!

Might be time for me to go to bed!

NoLeftTurn on April 15, 2010 at 12:41 AM

I think people, even TEA people have favorable impressions of Medicare and SS because we contribute into those funds through out our lifetime. Medicare spent on Uncle Joe is money he has CONTRIBUTED.

Very different from ObamaCare.

Allah: you are slipping!

cab8505 on April 15, 2010 at 12:44 AM

the fed gives an entitlement, then uses it as a bludgeon. Cuts to teachers, medicare, SS and the list goes on. If entitlements are cut, cut them out 5 years from now and taper off the crack, America. come on.

ted c on April 14, 2010 at 9:58 PM

And Ted nails it on the head, again.
+100

JusDreamin on April 15, 2010 at 12:44 AM

YYZ on April 15, 2010 at 12:35 AM

Were we running anything close to 1.5 trillion dollar annual deficits 40 years ago?

Or even four years ago before Democrats controlled the legislature?

It’s a “no”.

Insane spending is clearly an existential threat to the USA at this point, and people who care about their children and grand-children are taking notice.

forest on April 15, 2010 at 12:46 AM

I wish to make a change to the rule of the AllahPundit Drinking Game. That is, assuming I am not the only one still playing.

Under the old rules, Article One, Paragraph Ten, you had to take a drink any time Allah linked to the Fox News “Sexpert.” But AP has not linked to the “Sexpert” in many a moon.

I propose we replace Article One, Paragraph Ten of the AllahPundit Drinking Game with the following amendment:

Drinking Event: Any post that is editorialized, “What could go wrong?”

DRINK!

SteakRules on April 15, 2010 at 3:23 AM

Still, the point remains — even among the most devoutly fiscally conservative populist movement in America, self-interest trumps ideology when it comes to entitlements.

Can we look at this in its historical context? The vast majority of these elderly Americans were born into a system already in place — Social Security. Medicare was added later, but still within their actively working lifetimes. For many of them, SS and Medicare is the lifeline that keeps them afloat, and living independently. Try pricing private health insurance for those over 60, sans Medicare — it would eat up the budget of even the most frugal of the middle and working class retirees.

Prior to these entitlements, how did the elderly working class survive? Most of them lived with, and were supported by, married children. How would that work out in today’s society? Not very well, given the growing number of single households and unmarried single parents. Heck, many grown kids hit hardest by this economy are moving into their parents’ homes, not the other way around. How many 30-something singles could afford, or tolerate, their elderly parents moving in with them?

Bush’s plan to wean the younger generation from SS was our last best chance to forestall the monster now known as Obamacare. My kids would have embraced it — as it is now, their MSA’s will soon be regulated out of existence, their medical care downgraded, their taxes raised.

Older Americans want something better for their kids and grandkids, but most of them can’t afford to live independently without the entitlements they were born into.

Nichevo on April 15, 2010 at 3:33 AM

Meet the ‘others‘.

Fortunately, lame and small.

This time.

[Note their tactics.]

CPT. Charles on April 15, 2010 at 6:15 AM

The NYTimes finds Tea Party people are rich … Yep that’s what happens when you have jobs.

The poll is worse than Obami-commie’s cooked books.

tarpon on April 15, 2010 at 7:05 AM

In the era of trillon dollar this and that, I would be more than willing to see SSA continue for those in it and for those within 5 years of retirement… everyone else gets their money back either in lump sum payments or via annual tax credit. Money for those in the system comes from general revenue. Anyone in the system willing to opt-out and take a lump-sum payment may do so, including those heading into it. Yup we will take huge hit economically! And start on the road to solvency.

On Medicare/Medicaid, eliminate both, cut half the money, use the other half as block grants to the States and either cut taxes or pay down the debt with the other half. Phase that out over 20 years so the States have time to figure out what to do when its gone.

Anyone willing to back the system of an annuity can certainly find one these days… and pay for it if you think its a good way to retire.

Block grants eliminate federal bureaucracy, meddling and gives the States ability to free-wheel for their people on medical aid to the poor and elderly. That more local control is far, far better than federal control. You get accountability at the State level, lowered federal meddling, and the knowledge that at some point this help does end unless the citizens of the State wish to pay for it.

This won’t change taxes all that much, because the burden shifts from social programs to paying off debt burden. But SSA and Medicare will be gone as ever expansive killers of the budget… and if you want to pay down debt faster, you can start going after the other limbs of government: Agriculture, Education, Energy, FEMA, FHA and its family of Fannie and Freddie and Sallie and Ginnie and Ted and Alice, plus do the extreme audit of the Fed to find out just why it has backed the exact wrong fiscal policies before the Great Depression and leading up to this major recession… bring out the chainsaw to cut off these sources of graft, corruption, waste, fraud and abuse.

While we still have the time and ability to do so.

ajacksonian on April 15, 2010 at 7:14 AM

“The success in bailing out the system on the previous occasion led to a superbubble, except that in 2008 we used the same methods,” he [George Soros] told a meeting hosted by The Economist at the City of London’s modern and impressive Haberdashers’ Hall.

“Unless we learn the lessons, that markets are inherently unstable and that stability needs to the objective of public policy, we are facing a yet larger bubble.

“We have added to the leverage by replacing private credit with sovereign credit and increasing national debt by a significant amount.”

Funny this is pretty much the same message that the Tea Partiers have been sending.

J_Crater on April 15, 2010 at 7:22 AM

for once, JUST ONCE, i’d LOVE to hear the leftist media ask the same “fringe” questions to the dems picklesgap on April 14, 2010 at 10:03 PM

silly rabbit…those are their people, the dems don’t have any thoughts, they just tow the lib line for dear leader….kool-aid for all!

cmsinaz on April 15, 2010 at 7:26 AM

Support for Social Security and Medicare does not necessarily come from self interest. I’m 50 and my SS collect date was moved up to 67 years ago. I know I’ll never live long enough to get any of it. If I do manage to live that long I have no doubt there won’t be any money left anyway.

I’m hesitant to not support such programs because too many people will have nothing without them. The government has a done a wonderful job of creating the environment that encouraged companies to eliminate pensions.

No, I’m not talking about bloated government pensions. I mean private pensions that companies used to offer. 401K’s are great, but they allowed companies to used their existence to justify getting rid of pension plans.

I was lucky. When Verizon eliminated the management pension plan I just made the cut off by the skin of my teeth. But many people didn’t. I know people who had 20 years in the company who woke up one day and discovered they didn’t have a pension anymore.

I worry what will happen to people if we get rid of SS and Medicare. Liberals aren’t the only people who have feelings.

Jaynie59 on April 15, 2010 at 7:44 AM

The government has a done a wonderful job of creating the environment that encouraged companies to eliminate pensions . . . When Verizon eliminated the management pension plan I just made the cut off by the skin of my teeth. But many people didn’t. I know people who had 20 years in the company who woke up one day and discovered they didn’t have a pension anymore.

And the fact that Verizon stiffed loyal employees on their pensions is . . . the government’s fault? Your cognitive dissonance is showing; I’ll hold up a towel so you can stuff back into denial.

Grow Fins on April 15, 2010 at 7:55 AM

Jaynie59 on April 15, 2010 at 7:44 AM

Thanks for the gift of reality.

IlikedAUH2O on April 15, 2010 at 8:21 AM

even among the most devoutly fiscally conservative populist movement in America, self-interest trumps ideology when it comes to entitlements.

Well, that is a “duh” moment. What do you expect when your salary has been pilfered by the government for over 40 years with the promise that you would be paid that check every month? The same with all of the pension systems that are going bankrupt. Then add in all of the banks that are going down one after another and retirees are panicked about how they are going to live. Now that Obama has decided to kill Medicare all of us that have contributed to it for our entire working lives are now left out in the cold to die unnecessarily. I don’t care how fiscally conservative you may have been, all of this has been destroyed in the span of two years and all of it was planned. How do the 50 somethings plan for this? What do you do about all the older folks that were caught unawares. You could have saved for your entire lives and still won’t be able to survive. This Obama attack on our freedoms and treasure is a huge surprise to most people, even the ones that voted for him. I resent the implication that fiscal conservatives aren’t willing to give up the goodies. We would have gladly given them up if they hadn’t stolen from us in the first place and had time to build our own private retirement. For most of us we did plan for a private retirement, but that also included the “promise” of the pensions, Soc. Security and Medicare. Obama has made being responisble for yourself an impossibility by design.

BetseyRoss on April 15, 2010 at 8:32 AM

Nobody seems to remember that the biggest thing that sparked the Tea Parties to begin with was the government bailouts for stupid homeowners. THAT’s the “new entitlement” that sent a lot of hardworking people over the edge. Then they saw ObamaCare coming with yet another new entitlement to something that previously people were reposnible for getting for themselves. It’s entirely consistent with a view that we paid into Social Security and Medicare, and when we retire we are getting the benefits we paid for when we were working. We did NOT envision our tax dollars going to pay off mortgages and provide health insurance for stupid people.

rockmom on April 15, 2010 at 8:58 AM

exactly what are they inferring with their question have you bought gold?? I mean

ginaswo on April 15, 2010 at 9:28 AM

And the fact that Verizon stiffed loyal employees on their pensions is . . . the government’s fault? Your cognitive dissonance is showing; I’ll hold up a towel so you can stuff back into denial.

Grow Fins on April 15, 2010 at 7:55 AM

I’m no expert on tax and business law, but something happened to make the pension plan a minus instead of a plus for the company. So they got rid of it and told us all that the 401K was it from now on.

I don’t know what happened. But when NYNEX merged with Bell Atlantic the pension plan was considered a financial plus. Then the new Bell Atlantic bought out GTE and MCI Worldcom, and in less than 5 years the pension was history.

It was probably an unintended consequence of some change in tax laws. But it happened and I can’t say “get rid of Social Security and Medicare” when I know so many people who are going to need it.

Jaynie59 on April 15, 2010 at 9:30 AM

oops sorry, I mean WTF?! is that a slam at Glenn Beck commercials or something?? maroons, yeah I biught gold I have been buying it since it was 500 an oz, it is the thing that saved me when the dollar started falling and my 401k and ira got wiped out..

when we have Carteresque hyperinflation will the lamestream media hock their obama autographs for food? pfft..

the Fed sounds like they are going to target a higher inflation rate as acceptable since UE will stay high for so long, and face it they have to devalue the dollar to boost prolabor exports for Teh One and to devalue the massive debt…

so gold is not a bad choice as insurance on your portfolio, 20% IMO, this is just another example of their class prejudice the way they framed these questions IMO

ginaswo on April 15, 2010 at 9:31 AM

rockmom

agree and the irony is they use up that 75B, now they call it 50b where did the other 25bn go?? and the banks are still made whole via FAN FRED FHA, the foreclosures STILL happened and now taxpayers are out the losses through the GSEs

nice eh? the frakkers

ginaswo on April 15, 2010 at 9:33 AM

Anyone catch the original Times headline?

http://i.imgur.com/R9mvV.jpg

Breaking News Alert
The New York Times
Wed, April 14, 2010 — 6:30 PM ET
—–

Poll Finds Tea Party Anger Rooted in Issues of Class

The fierce animosity that Tea Party supporters harbor toward Washington and President Obama in particular is rooted in deep pessimism about the direction of the country and the conviction that the policies of the Obama administration are disproportionately directed at helping the poor rather than the middle class or the rich, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll.

Smaulz on April 15, 2010 at 10:08 AM

Allah, Pretty lame. Running out of real stories to post??

New Patriot on April 15, 2010 at 10:55 AM

“Among the general population, 50 percent of the Times’s sample was 45 or older; among tea partiers, it was 75 percent, with 29 percent 65 or older. Still, the point remains — even among the most devoutly fiscally conservative populist movement in America, self-interest trumps ideology when it comes to entitlements.”

Sorry if I’m repeating, but isn’t the quote above exactly the point of the entitlement mentality? Get everyone used to the entitlement and they will not want to see it taken away, regardless of cost. We seem unable to distinguish between individualism and self interest; they are not the same. Our parents were the first generation to retire officially, and they may be the last. My mother-in-law worked full time until she was 84, by choice, and my husband and I intend to continue in her footsteps.

College Prof on April 15, 2010 at 1:20 PM

Slightly OT, but related:

Has anyone noticed that the only thing keeping PBO in the black on the RCP poll average is the NYT/CBS +10? When the last +10 expired he immediately went into the red. One day later there is a brand new +10 added. AYFKM? In a month in a half after all other polls have moved down, the NYT/CBS pres. poll remains static. Right.

drocity on April 15, 2010 at 1:30 PM