Guess who helped overthrow Kyrgyzstan’s government?

posted at 9:30 am on April 12, 2010 by Ed Morrissey

It’s a darned good thing that Barack Obama signed a new START treaty with Russia that allows them to put resources into areas other than competing on upkeep of nuclear weapons.  Now that Vladimir Putin and Dmitri Medvedev have that behind them, they can concentrate on more appealing projects — such as continuing their efforts to rebuild the Russian Empire with puppet governments in former Soviet states.  The Washington Post reports today that Moscow gave the violent opposition a big boost in Kyrgyzstan in the month before a coup sent its government packing:

Less than a month before the violent protests that toppled the government of Kyrgyzstan last week, Russian television stations broadcast scathing reports portraying President Kurmanbek Bakiyev as a repugnant dictator whose family was stealing billions of dollars from this impoverished nation.

The media campaign, along with punishing economic measures adopted by the Kremlin, played a critical role in fanning public anger against Bakiyev and bringing people into the streets for the demonstrations that forced him to flee the capital Wednesday, according to protest leaders, local journalists and analysts.

“Even without Russia, this would have happened sooner or later, but . . . I think the Russian factor was decisive,” said Omurbek Tekebayev, a former opposition leader who is now the No. 2 figure in the government.

Why did Putin go after Bakiyev? Last year, the Russians strongarmed him into agreeing to shut down an important American air base needed for a supply line into Afghanistan. After getting about a fifth of the aid promised him by Putin and Medvedev, he suddenly reversed course and agreed to keep it open, after Obama tripled the rent in a belated attempt to outspend the Russians. This is Moscow’s payback.

In retaliation, Russia began broadcasting stories about Bakiyev that compared him to Genghis Khan and calling him a corrupt thief. They also hinted that Moscow would expel a million Kyrgyz immigrants from Russia, whose money earned there is an important part of Kyrgyzstan’s economy. Less than two weeks ago, Russia continued its retaliations by cutting off special pricing on fuel and tying it explicitly to Bakiyev. It didn’t take long for the opposition to run Bakiyev out of the capital.

With Bakiyev gone, the Russians have a new puppet leadership in Kyrgyzstan who are only in power because of Moscow’s meddling.  Does anyone expect the Manas air base to remain open to the US after that show of power?  We’ll be out of there in almost no time, which is probably why the White House just cut a deal with Kazakhstan for overflights.  It will deal a serious blow to our lines of communication in Afghanistan.

The big question now is why we should sign a new START treaty that will save the Russians hundreds of billions of dollars while they scheme to overthrow governments and shut down our supply lines in Central Asia.  The only benefit that the US gets from START is an ego boost for Barack Obama.


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Comment pages: 1 2

I’d say the Obama Regime helped all it could.

Cybergeezer on April 12, 2010 at 9:32 AM

Memo to all former Soviet satellite governments: Don’t go flying anytime soon, and if you do, don’t put 75% of the high ranking government and army people onboard the same plane.

Bishop on April 12, 2010 at 9:35 AM

We’ll be out of there in almost no time, which is probably why the White House just cut a deal with Kazakhstan for overflights. It will deal a serious blow to our lines of communication in Afghanistan.

Read the writing on the wall: The USA will be out of Afghanistan soon. The split with Karzai will give Obama the reason he needs to cut bait and save face. You watch.

BPD on April 12, 2010 at 9:36 AM

Obama is making friends out of enemy’s…that is his rationale.
Like giving you lunch to the bully so the bully will be his friend…yeah, that works.

right2bright on April 12, 2010 at 9:37 AM

On a personal level, as of 4/8 this mess is keeping hawkdriver in Afghanistan. I hate it when the smartest human in the world is our president.

Cindy Munford on April 12, 2010 at 9:37 AM

Memo to all former Soviet satellite governments: Don’t go flying anytime soon, and if you do, don’t put 75% of the high ranking government and army people onboard the same plane.

Bishop on April 12, 2010 at 9:35 AM

I am thinking if I was any sort of person who might just get elected or appointed to any high government spot in Poland I would seriously be watching my back right about now.

Johnnyreb on April 12, 2010 at 9:39 AM

So in the same week, Kyrgystan’s government is overthrown and the President of Poland is killed in a plane crash. Things that make you go hmmmm.

SoulGlo on April 12, 2010 at 9:40 AM

Bishop on April 12, 2010 at 9:35 AM

My thoughts exactly.

Obama continues his self-aggrandizing but little practical use tour today in DC with this Fellini-like meeting of the minds to prevent nuclear proliferation… with Russians and Iranians, among others.

Wineaholic on April 12, 2010 at 9:41 AM

Seems the ruskys can play the same game as the one, while you are here we’re doing this.Got to watch both hands!

tim c on April 12, 2010 at 9:42 AM

Both sides got what they were after. Now the USSR can rise from the ashes and pick up the dominoes one country at a time. You probably think the Polish plane went down because of the fog, too.

Kissmygrits on April 12, 2010 at 9:43 AM

The Senate gets the final say on the treaty. I hope they are paying attention.

Mark1971 on April 12, 2010 at 9:43 AM

Obama is proving yet again that it\’s far more dangerous to be America\’s friend than our enemy/rival.

Yakko77 on April 12, 2010 at 9:43 AM

Memo to all former Soviet satellite governments: Don’t go flying anytime soon, and if you do, don’t put 75% of the high ranking government and army people onboard the same plane.

Bishop on April 12, 2010 at 9:35 AM

So you think the Polish plane crash was Katyn II, orchestrated by the Russian government? Can you present any evidence or is it just a hunch?

aengus on April 12, 2010 at 9:43 AM

Obama believes we are just as bad as the Soviets. Probably worse. Just ask him.

sheriff246 on April 12, 2010 at 9:45 AM

Read the writing on the wall: The USA will be out of Afghanistan soon. The split with Karzai will give Obama the reason he needs to cut bait and save face. You watch.
BPD on April 12, 2010 at 9:36 AM
I agree. And, I think it’s a fair question to ask whether we should have our men & women fighting and dying over in Afghanistan to prop up some corrupt government.

The “surge” strategy worked in Iraq because we had a legitimate, fledgling democracy there and because the population and “tribal” leadership were committed to making it work. So, we use the “surge” to get rid of al Qaeda and the Iranians, and that creates an environment to allow the Iraqi government to gain strength and legitimacy to where it can stand on its own. I get that.

Not so clear that strategy works when the organic culture is one of disparate, warring tribes, which appears to be the case in Afghanistan.

Outlander on April 12, 2010 at 9:47 AM

Might be time to go ahead and order that Russian “Rosetta Stone” package. Better safe than sorry?

zenscreamer on April 12, 2010 at 9:48 AM

The only benefit that the US gets from START is an ego boost for Barack Obama.

Well, that says it all, doesn’t it? What else do you think really matters to this Narcissist-in-Chief? He gets the swoons from the New York Times and Washington Post editorial pages for the START treaty, but the strategic disaster of Kyrgystan is way too obscure for their pretty little heads to get around and actually report.

rockmom on April 12, 2010 at 9:48 AM

But we gave them the cool button and stuff, why would they do something like this?

thomasaur on April 12, 2010 at 9:48 AM

Russia Today is a English Media outfit that is a KGB front. Keep eye on them, they are interested in promoting our loons/isolationist for obvious reasons. Often interview Ron Paul and have an audience within Paleo- circles, on top of the far-left in the West.

jp on April 12, 2010 at 9:48 AM

I wouldn’t be suprised if something fishy happened with the Polish plane. That was the first thing I thought of when I heard the news. When I found out Putin was personally overseeing the investigation into the crash, I was not reassured.

Joe Caps on April 12, 2010 at 9:49 AM

When Hillary hit the ‘reset’ button, I didn’t realise she was planning on going back to 1945.

EnglishMike on April 12, 2010 at 9:51 AM

The only benefit that the US gets from START is an ego boost for Barack Obama.

Same with the Health “Care” debacle. The guy is taking us down hard…and fast!

FireBlogger on April 12, 2010 at 9:52 AM

Memo to all former Soviet satellite governments: Don’t go flying anytime soon, and if you do, don’t put 75% of the high ranking government and army people onboard the same plane.

Bishop on April 12, 2010 at 9:35 AM

…plane overhauled in December in Samara – all the engines, electronic and navigation equipment retrofitted; Putin in charge of investigation …

runner on April 12, 2010 at 9:54 AM

The only benefit that the US gets from START is an ego boost for Barack Obama.
Same with the Health “Care” debacle. The guy is taking us down hard…and fast!

FireBlogger on April 12, 2010 at 9:52 AM

The Precedent is building his resume for King of the World, he thinks that it exists.

thomasaur on April 12, 2010 at 9:55 AM

Seeing that Obama is the worst thing that has happened to the US (and Europe) since Jimmy Carter, Putin is making his moves.

Watch for others to soon follow his lead. Countries not liking the US have to make their moves now because the clock is ticking on the Obama regime.

albill on April 12, 2010 at 9:58 AM

So you think the Polish plane crash was Katyn II, orchestrated by the Russian government? Can you present any evidence or is it just a hunch?
aengus on April 12, 2010 at 9:43 AM

Yes I have evidence: I was floating in a cloaked surveillance balloon above the airport where the Tupolev was supposed to land and I saw an AA missile being fired from the nearby forest. It’s all on 20megapixel digital video.

No, it’s just a conspiratorial hunch bolstered by a wave of convenient occurrences which have taken place since PBHO had his measure taken by our enemies.

Bishop on April 12, 2010 at 9:59 AM

So you think the Polish plane crash was Katyn II, orchestrated by the Russian government? Can you present any evidence or is it just a hunch?

aengus on April 12, 2010 at 9:43 AM

Not trying to speak for Bishop but Russia does have a long and bloody history elated to such things. The timing is just too perfect. It’s just a hunch right now but as runner pointed out above, there are just too many things that sort of make you go, “hmmmmm”.

Yakko77 on April 12, 2010 at 10:00 AM

The only benefit that the US gets from START is an ego boost for Barack Obama.

You say that like it’s a bad thing.
Barack is America…the “new” America.
I bow to the new Xerxes, our god-king.

Extrafishy on April 12, 2010 at 10:01 AM

elated = related

Yakko77 on April 12, 2010 at 10:01 AM

Get your Fur-lined flak jackets out. Another cold war is in the forecast.

cartooner on April 12, 2010 at 10:02 AM

Can you present any evidence or is it just a hunch?
aengus on April 12, 2010 at 9:43 AM

We’ll have to wait for the incident investigation to be completed by the Russians before we will be able to present the evidence that is sure to come out.

thomasaur on April 12, 2010 at 10:04 AM

Obama believes we are just as bad as the Soviets. Probably worse were really neato. Just ask him.

sheriff246 on April 12, 2010 at 9:45 AM

FIFY

bikermailman on April 12, 2010 at 10:06 AM

Instead of giving them a “Reset Button”….next time give them an “Easy” button…

PatriotRider on April 12, 2010 at 10:06 AM

Oops. Shoulda struck the period after soviets. :D

bikermailman on April 12, 2010 at 10:06 AM

Obama is making friends out of enemy’s…that is his rationale.
Like giving you the taxpayers’ lunch money to the bully so the bully will be his friend…yeah, that works.

right2bright on April 12, 2010 at 9:37 AM

FIFY

Branch Rickey on April 12, 2010 at 10:07 AM

It’s a darned good thing that Barack Obama signed a new START treaty with Russia that allows them to put resources into areas other than competing on upkeep of nuclear weapons.

Ed, are you seriously suggesting that we start a new arms race with Russia? Just more proof that the right defines the best policy as the opposite of what Obama does. How does it feel to have Obama dictate your opinions?

Tom_Shipley on April 12, 2010 at 10:07 AM

We’ll have to wait for the incident investigation to be completed by the Russians before we will be able to present the evidence that is sure to come out.

thomasaur on April 12, 2010 at 10:04 AM

Fortunately we have Joe Biden to go over there and straighten thinks out…Stand up Lech, take a bow…
Of course, as you pointed out, that won’t be necessarily since Putin himself said he will get to the bottom of this. I think he is serious, he called OJ for advice on finding criminals…

right2bright on April 12, 2010 at 10:08 AM

We’ll have to wait for the incident investigation to be completed by the Russians before we will be able to present the evidence that is sure to come out.
thomasaur on April 12, 2010 at 10:04 AM

To be completed by the same investigators who “discovered” that Georgian troops had invaded Russian territory which is why the Russians were forced to invade.

Bishop on April 12, 2010 at 10:08 AM

Is anyone surprized at this? Putin has long said the greatest tragedy of the 20th century was the breakup of the Soviet Union, and his goal as president/prime minister is to build a new Soviet Union. The cliche in foreign affairs is that the Russians play chess while the US plays checkers. I’d say at this point, they’re playing chess and this administration is playing tiddilywinks. I keep thinking it can’t get worse, but then it does.

Dan859 on April 12, 2010 at 10:08 AM

Get your Fur-lined flak jackets out. Another cold war is in the forecast.

cartooner on April 12, 2010 at 10:02 AM

Didn’t you get the memo. There will be no more cold-wars. The globe is warming.

With this puppet soviet government with another name, warm-war sounds even more appropriate.

shick on April 12, 2010 at 10:09 AM

Often interview Ron Paul and have an audience within Paleo- circles, on top of the far-left in the West

and Paul and his loons think that all that cash is coming from American fans…these lovely people bought “The Independent” in the UK..in case US makes any moves that are displeasing to the FSB, the squealing will become immense (as it did in 2003), and firstly from the Paleo circles..this does not change and the propaganda war is alive and well…they try to infest the military circles with this isolationist crap as well…

runner on April 12, 2010 at 10:09 AM

Ed, are you seriously suggesting that we start a new arms race with Russia?
Tom_Shipley on April 12, 2010 at 10:07 AM

No, he is saying the “START” treaty is a benefit to Russia, and no benefit for us.
Are you “seriously” reading what is posting?

right2bright on April 12, 2010 at 10:11 AM

The big question now is why we should sign a new START treaty that will save the Russians hundreds of billions of dollars while they scheme to overthrow governments and shut down our supply lines in Central Asia. The only benefit that the US gets from START is an ego boost for Barack Obama.

Well, not quite. The U.S. also “saves” hundreds of billions of dollars. We won’t be spending that money to research and develop newer and better nuclear weapons (nor, apparently, to research and develop newer and better missile defense systems).

Just think of all the new entitlement programs we can fund with all those “savings”! Why should we squander massive amounts of money on our national defense when there are people in this country who don’t have flat screen HD televisions! Having equal access to quality HD tv is a basic human right! Let’s use all that money we’ll “save” from the START treaty to provide “free” HD flat screens to the oppressed classes!

AZCoyote on April 12, 2010 at 10:11 AM

The cliche in foreign affairs is that the Russians play chess while the US plays checkers.

Reagan played three-dimensional chess

runner on April 12, 2010 at 10:15 AM

Not trying to speak for Bishop but Russia does have a long and bloody history elated to such things. The timing is just too perfect.

What is perfect about the timing aside from the ‘irony’ factor of the Katyn commemoration? There are also signs pointing towards a non-conspirational explanation. Two years ago, President Kaczynski publicly berated and threatened with punishment a pilot who had refused Kaczynski’s demand that he land the presidential plane in Tbilisi, Georgia in what the pilot considered dangerous conditions. This may have affected the thinking of the pilot of the plane the other night, who tried to land in bad conditions.

Yes I have evidence: I was floating in a cloaked surveillance balloon above the airport where the Tupolev was supposed to land and I saw an AA missile being fired from the nearby forest. It’s all on 20megapixel digital video.

Eh I asked if you had evidence, not proof.

Russia Today is a English Media outfit that is a KGB front.

Except that there is no KGB. You meant to say the current Russian spy agency, the FSB. Might as well say that Russia Today is a front for the NKVD as for the KGB.

aengus on April 12, 2010 at 10:16 AM

aengus on April 12, 2010 at 10:16 AM

who are you ?

runner on April 12, 2010 at 10:17 AM

So you think the Polish plane crash was Katyn II, orchestrated by the Russian government? Can you present any evidence or is it just a hunch?

aengus on April 12, 2010 at 9:43 AM

Just suspicions. Let’s see if Russia actually releases the black boxes to Poland without Putin “inspecting” them first.

And please don’t forget Putin invading Georgia while he and Bush sat next to each other during the Bejing Olympics, in addition to the killing/poisioning of journalists and/or opposition. Then this move in Kyrgyzstan while signing the START treaty. There was one more “in your face” move Putin made as Obama made his first trip to Europe as President but can’t recall specifics off the top of my head.

Bottom line: There is no limit to what they are willing to do. Putin simply wants the old Soviet Empire reconstituted under the “Russia” name.

WisRich on April 12, 2010 at 10:18 AM

aengus on April 12, 2010 at 10:16 AM
who are you ?

runner on April 12, 2010 at 10:17 AM

He’s the smartest MFer in the world, can’t you tell?

thomasaur on April 12, 2010 at 10:18 AM

Just one thought here, I’m not knowledgeable in foreign affairs and certainly not in Russian anything.
The Russians have got to realize that Obama’s days are numbered and it sure looks to me that they have accelerated their agenda (whatever it is) in the last couple months.
The Polish plane crash does seem a little too coincidental to me.

ORconservative on April 12, 2010 at 10:19 AM

The big question now is why we should sign a new START treaty that will save the Russians hundreds of billions of dollars while they scheme to overthrow governments and shut down our supply lines in Central Asia.

Zero won that’s why. Since he’s the adult that in charge. He knows how to have all these countries singing kumbaya.

I really hope Zero doesn’t get a second term. After Nov we need to concentrate on voting him out in 2012. I just hope that our allies can wait that long and our enemies won’t try to go after us or our allies.

Brat4life on April 12, 2010 at 10:19 AM

Ed, are you seriously suggesting that we start a new arms race with Russia? Just more proof that the right defines the best policy as the opposite of what Obama does. How does it feel to have Obama dictate your opinions?

Tom_Shipley on April 12, 2010 at 10:07 AM

What a dishonest post. Nowhere did Ed recommend a new arms race with Russia, you made that up from whole cloth. You made a gigantic leap to a preordained conclusion there Tom.

Johnnyreb on April 12, 2010 at 10:19 AM

He’s the smartest MFer in the world, can’t you tell?

thomasaur on April 12, 2010 at 10:18 AM

that explains it

runner on April 12, 2010 at 10:20 AM

kinjester = kingjester

DarkCurrent on April 12, 2010 at 10:20 AM

Reagan played three-dimensional chess

Yes but he would not have insisted that the Russian Federation under Putin is a Soviet/Communist front. That is a popular conspiracy theory that is taken as read on here. Ed and other conservative bloggers do not promote it but they do nothing to discourage it.

aengus on April 12, 2010 at 10:20 AM

And please don’t forget Putin invading Georgia while he and Bush sat next to each other during the Bejing Olympics

after month of anti-Saak’ashvili propganda; same blueprint

runner on April 12, 2010 at 10:22 AM

who are you ?

runner on April 12, 2010 at 10:17 AM

What do you mean who am I? I’m a member of the public posting anonymously on the internet. Who are you?

He’s the smartest MFer in the world, can’t you tell?

thomasaur on April 12, 2010 at 10:18 AM

Funny stuff.

aengus on April 12, 2010 at 10:22 AM

Yes but he would not have insisted that the Russian Federation under Putin is a Soviet/Communist front. That is a popular conspiracy theory that is taken as read on here. Ed and other conservative bloggers do not promote it but they do nothing to discourage it.

aengus on April 12, 2010 at 10:20 AM

sure, baby

runner on April 12, 2010 at 10:22 AM

What do you mean who am I? I’m a member of the public posting anonymously on the internet. Who are you?

question was rhetorical

runner on April 12, 2010 at 10:24 AM

Funny stuff.

aengus on April 12, 2010 at 10:22 AM

answer was sarcasm

thomasaur on April 12, 2010 at 10:25 AM

answer was sarcasm

Yeah, I know. I meant funny as in “ha ha” funny.

aengus on April 12, 2010 at 10:27 AM

This should have the Capt. Renault award.

jnelchef on April 12, 2010 at 10:27 AM

Has anyone seen or heard from coldwarrior or el duende? Their input in this would be enlightening.

thomasaur on April 12, 2010 at 10:30 AM

Yeah, and in the same week Putin decapitated the Polish government. Now that’s efficiency!

Seriously, Russia is reconquering it’s old territory and Barry is complicit in all the suffering that is accompanying it.

ahem on April 12, 2010 at 10:30 AM

Seriously, Russia is reconquering it’s old territory and Barry is complicit in all the suffering that is accompanying it.

ahem on April 12, 2010 at 10:30 AM

Strangely similar to FDR and Uncle Joe in the 1930′s. While not actively condoning or acknowledging what is going on he is just turning a blind eye.

thomasaur on April 12, 2010 at 10:35 AM

Ed, are you seriously suggesting that we start a new arms race with Russia? Just more proof that the right defines the best policy as the opposite of what Obama does. How does it feel to have Obama dictate your opinions?

Tom_Shipley on April 12, 2010 at 10:07 AM

A new arms race? Perish the thought! We all know how trustworthy Putin is. Why the man’s word can be taken to the bank. If he says Russia isn’t going to develop any new nuclear weapons, that’s all we need to shut down our own R & D.

Who needs state-of-the-art national defense capabilities anyway? That’s so 20th century. We live in a world of gumdrops and daisies and unicorns now.

AZCoyote on April 12, 2010 at 10:36 AM

I actually don’t think Russia caused the plane to crash. As I understand it, the plane landed short of the runway due to heavy fog. There’s no evidence the plane was shot down or sabotaged. The pilots should have known better: what kind of pilot tries to land a plane on a VFR-only air strip, at night, when he can’t see the runway? It’s idiotic.

Not only that, but the Polish investigator has said that the Russian tower advised the plane to divert to another airport. I’m sure the logs on the flight data recorder will show that, too. Let’s not be paranoid.

Outlander on April 12, 2010 at 10:38 AM

Give Vlad credit. At least he’s constantly working on behalf of HIS COUNTRY’S best interests.

DLEW on April 12, 2010 at 10:40 AM

Tom_Shipley prefers the American policy towards an expanding Russian empire be ice cream for all!

Inanemergencydial on April 12, 2010 at 10:41 AM

maybe there’s been Russian interference within Afghanistan since 2001. Just sayin’

vinman on April 12, 2010 at 10:44 AM

The pilots should have known better: what kind of pilot tries to land a plane on a VFR-only air strip, at night, when he can’t see the runway? It’s idiotic.

Outlander on April 12, 2010 at 10:38 AM

And that is why pretty much everyone is jumping on the conspiracy band wagon. It was idiotic for the pilot to even think about tyring that.

Johnnyreb on April 12, 2010 at 10:49 AM

No, he is saying the “START” treaty is a benefit to Russia, and no benefit for us.
Are you “seriously” reading what is posting?

right2bright on April 12, 2010 at 10:11 AM

The actions of the socialist regime are becoming harder to bury, so the talking points take longer to create, and are by-and-large disconnected from the subject of a story or set of facts.

This is why Tom “I wanne be a socialist boot-licker” Shipley and his bretheren make non-sensical comments.

BobMbx on April 12, 2010 at 10:51 AM

The pilots should have known better: what kind of pilot tries to land a plane on a VFR-only air strip, at night, when he can’t see the runway? It’s idiotic.

Outlander on April 12, 2010 at 10:38 AM

I agree. Unfortunately it’s not an uncommon scenario.

DarkCurrent on April 12, 2010 at 10:51 AM

Seriously, Russia is reconquering it’s old territory and Barry is complicit in all the suffering that is accompanying it.

ahem on April 12, 2010 at 10:30 AM

Strangely similar to FDR and Uncle Joe in the 1930’s. While not actively condoning or acknowledging what is going on he is just turning a blind eye.

thomasaur on April 12, 2010 at 10:35 AM

I believe Churchill was constantly frustrated at FDRs willingness to trust Stalin. Churchill saw the writing on the wall with Stalin. In this case however, Obama is more like Chamberlain than FDR.

Yakko77 on April 12, 2010 at 10:51 AM

So why don’t we use the same plan for IRAN?

In retaliation, Russia began broadcasting stories about Bakiyev that compared him to Genghis Khan and calling him a corrupt thief. They also hinted that Moscow would expel a million Kyrgyz immigrants from Russia, whose money earned there is an important part of Kyrgyzstan’s economy. Less than two weeks ago, Russia continued its retaliations by cutting off special pricing on fuel and tying it explicitly to Bakiyev. It didn’t take long for the opposition to run Bakiyev out of the capital.

barnone on April 12, 2010 at 10:53 AM

And that is why pretty much everyone is jumping on the conspiracy band wagon. It was idiotic for the pilot to even think about tyring that./blockquote>

Sure but Kaczynski publicly berated the pilot who had refused presidential plane in Tbilisi. He said: “If someone decides to become a pilot, he cannot be fearful. After returning to the country, we shall deal with this matter.” The pilot was not disciplined, but reported becoming depressed about Kaczynski public scolding of him.

So what must have been going through the mind of the pilots the other night, considering that Kaczynski’s party would be late for the Katyn Forest ceremony if they went to a different airport? The people who are jumping on the conspiracy theory band-wagon have a ready-made axe to grind.

aengus on April 12, 2010 at 10:55 AM

It was idiotic for the pilot to even think about tyring that.

usually, and especially in former Eastern block countries pilots of Presidential planes are ex-military; overall Polish pilots are known for their exceptional skill around the world

runner on April 12, 2010 at 10:55 AM

Whoops! Last two paragraphs should not be in quotation.

aengus on April 12, 2010 at 10:58 AM

Second try:

And that is why pretty much everyone is jumping on the conspiracy band wagon. It was idiotic for the pilot to even think about tyring that.

Sure but Kaczynski had publicly berated the pilot who had refused to land the presidential plane in Tbilisi. He said: “If someone decides to become a pilot, he cannot be fearful. After returning to the country, we shall deal with this matter.” The pilot was not disciplined, but reported becoming depressed about Kaczynski’s public scolding of him.

So what must have been going through the mind of the pilots the other night, considering that Kaczynski’s party would be late for the Katyn Forest ceremony if they went to a different airport? The people who are jumping on the conspiracy theory band-wagon have a ready-made axe to grind.

aengus on April 12, 2010 at 11:01 AM

It took Putin about 15 minutes to get inside Obama’s OODA loop. Afghanistan is busy, so why not K-stan?

PattyJ on April 12, 2010 at 11:08 AM

I’m torn here …

On the one hand … I’m not happy about helping Russia to expand it’s empire again.

But on the other – I truly do dispise our namby-pamby former allies in France, Germany, Italy, Spain, and even England for their lack of support for our half-century efforts to protect them by keeping Russia bottled up.

So a big part of me wants Western Europe to sleep in the bed it’s made for itself – and deal with a bullying Russia on it’s own. And if it comes to a war for them – then I know Obama will sit it out and not get us involved in it unless Russia gives us a reason to – which they won’t.

But if a GOP President is elected in 2012 – he’ll send our kids over to fight for our pathetic allies in Western Europe. I’ll still vote GOP – but I won’t support a war for Europe EVER again – under any circumstance unless there is an immediate and dire threat to the U.S. as well.

If I were a GOP President – I would sit down with Putin and carve out the globe. He stays out of North and South America … And he can have everything east of Greenland as long as he keeps the oil flowing to us. China can have Asia. I know the Russians have the balls to fight the Islamofascists and they won’t be too worried about consulting lawyers – as we are. A few decades under the Russian thumb would do wonders for the attitudes of millions of French and Germans imo.

But if Europe gets into conflict – we’d better never, ever send American boys and girls over to help them. Let them burn – we lost enough in the first two Wars to save Europe and there’s been precious little thanks for it.

HondaV65 on April 12, 2010 at 11:11 AM

HondaV65 on April 12, 2010 at 11:11 AM

I fully support your plan, especially the no war for Europe part. We certainly have our own problems, number 1 being Obama, Europe has made their bed.

ORconservative on April 12, 2010 at 11:18 AM

But if Europe gets into conflict – we’d better never, ever send American boys and girls over to help them. Let them burn – we lost enough in the first two Wars to save Europe and there’s been precious little thanks for it.

HondaV65 on April 12, 2010 at 11:11 AM

Who gets Australia?

DarkCurrent on April 12, 2010 at 11:20 AM

Thanks to Pres. Obama’s weakness and open, public arguments with Karzai, Afghanistan is ensured to be another American defeat and maybe eventually be compared to Vietnam. Good Job Mr. President!

Sultry Beauty on April 12, 2010 at 11:35 AM

This is going to be a long decade.

rollthedice on April 12, 2010 at 11:39 AM

Yes but he would not have insisted that the Russian Federation under Putin is a Soviet/Communist front. That is a popular conspiracy theory that is taken as read on here. Ed and other conservative bloggers do not promote it but they do nothing to discourage it.

aengus on April 12, 2010 at 10:20 AM

Well, besides the Ruskies themselves talking about reverting back to Soviet glory days:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/1382860/Pro-Putin-cult-urges-return-to-Soviet-glory.html

uknowmorethanme on April 12, 2010 at 11:40 AM

This is my favorite:

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Putin's+Russia%3a+the+return+of+the+iron+fist-a0158387715

The study, which looked at 1,061 top Kremlin, regional, and corporate jobs, found that “78 percent of the Russian elite” are what are known in Russia as “siloviki,” which is to say, former members of the KGB or its domestic successor, the FSB(FrontSide Bus) See system bus.
——————————————————————————–

FSB – front side bus
….. Click the link for more information.. The author of the study, Olga Kryshtanovskaya, expressed shock at her own findings. “I was very shocked when I looked at the boards of major companies and realized there were lots of people who had completely unknown names, people who were not public but who were definitely, obvious siloviki,” she told Reuters. Other supposed experts–in Russia and the West–have also expressed surprise and alarm at the apparent resurrection of the dreaded Soviet secret police. After all, for the past decade and a half these same experts have been pointing to the alleged demise of the KGB as the primary evidence supporting their claim that communism is dead.

We reported in 1999, for instance, on Putin’s ominously revealing speech for Security Organs Day, celebrating the accomplishments of Dzerzhinsky and the Cheka. We reported in 2002 on Putin’s restoration of important communist symbols:

* the Red Star, as Russia’s official military emblem;

* the Red Banner, as Russia’s military flag;

* the music of the old Soviet anthem, albeit with new words;

* and his attempt, along with Moscow Mayor Yuri Luzhkov, to restore the giant statue of Dzerzhinsky to its former place of honor in Moscow’s Lubyanka Square.

Public opposition to the glorification of “Iron Felix” have (temporarily) scotched Putin’s plans for Dzerzhinsky’s statue. Nevertheless, as we have reported, in 2005, Putin did restore a smaller bust of the mass-murdering Chekist to a pedestal at the infamous Lubyanka headquarters of the KGB-FSB.

uknowmorethanme on April 12, 2010 at 11:45 AM

Sure but Kaczynski had publicly berated the pilot who had refused to land the presidential plane in Tbilisi. He said: “If someone decides to become a pilot, he cannot be fearful. After returning to the country, we shall deal with this matter.” The pilot was not disciplined, but reported becoming depressed about Kaczynski’s public scolding of him.

So what must have been going through the mind of the pilots the other night, considering that Kaczynski’s party would be late for the Katyn Forest ceremony if they went to a different airport? The people who are jumping on the conspiracy theory band-wagon have a ready-made axe to grind.

aengus on April 12, 2010 at 11:01 AM

It’s funny how your entire argument is based on something the guy said to some OTHER pilot years back.

One one hand, we have a pilot who might not have wanted to get yelled at, so he decided to risk the lives of 75% of the Polish Gov’t.

On the other hand, we have decades of Russian mystery, we have Putin all of a sudden inviting and attending a massacre of Poles that Russia wouldn’t even acknowledge until 50 years after the fact.

The Russian’s history is what makes us jump on the consipracy theories.

uknowmorethanme on April 12, 2010 at 11:54 AM

thomasaur on April 12, 2010 at 10:30 AM

I hate it when people I love reading disappear.

Cindy Munford on April 12, 2010 at 11:58 AM

Russia began broadcasting stories about Bakiyev that compared him to Genghis Khan and calling him a corrupt thief.

See, I hate to side with the Russians here, but this is what we would call telling the truth. The reason the US didn’t stand up for this a-hole Bakiyev is that he *really was* this bad. The protest agiainst him happened every year since 2006, this was just the largest and the first time anyone actually fired on the crowd.

They also hinted that Moscow would expel a million Kyrgyz immigrants from Russia

Which they do every year. Illegal immigration is a big problem in Russia too; it’s just former soviet immigrants (who at least speak the language).

Does anyone expect the Manas air base to remain open to the US after that show of power?

Yes.

We’ll be out of there in almost no time, which is probably why the White House just cut a deal with Kazakhstan for overflights.

No.

Otunbaeyeva said nothing will change for now, and the Russians still don’t pay any rent on Kant while we pay millions in rent on the base and with our contracts for suppliers…. The Russians can put pressure on, but they won’t make the payments to make up the difference.

flashoverride on April 12, 2010 at 11:58 AM

I’m juts trying to piece together a rational explanation. What makes you think that Russia’s commemoration of the Katyn massacre is the perfect occasion to covertly murder a sub-section of the top strata of Polish officials? Is it so the Russians can laugh about it in secret? I don’t see what – aside from a kind of bitter black irony – makes it piece together so perfectly.

aengus on April 12, 2010 at 12:01 PM

Polish Crash Inquiry Looks at Decision to Land Jet

In August 2008, during Russia’s brief war with Georgia, Mr. Kaczynski got into a dispute with a pilot flying his plane to the Georgian capital, Tbilisi, according to reports at the time. Mr. Kaczynski demanded that the pilot land despite dangerous conditions, but the pilot disagreed and diverted to neighboring Azerbaijan.

Mr. Kaczynski threatened that there would be consequences for the pilot, the Polish newspaper Dziennik reported. “If someone decides to become a pilot, he cannot be fearful,” Mr. Kaczynski said. “After returning to the country, we shall deal with this matter.”

That pilot was not disciplined and received a medal for his service. But the defense minister later said that the pilot had suffered depression in the wake of the incident.

Lech Walesa, the former Polish president, told the newspaper Gazeta Wyborcza over the weekend that in these situations, the captain often sought the views of the government leaders on the plane.

“If there were any doubts, the leaders were always approached and asked for their decision, and only on this basis were further steps taken,” he said. “Sometimes the plane captain would make the decision himself, even against the recommendations. We do not yet know what happened, so let’s leave the explaining to the experts.”

aengus on April 12, 2010 at 12:04 PM

You call it “my argument” as if I have to disprove some nutso conspiracy theory. I’m simply relaying information to you from the world of the sane.

aengus on April 12, 2010 at 12:05 PM

No doubt Obama is sending a fruit basket to Otunbayeva and Putin congratulating them on the recent news of blossoming democracy in Kyrgyzstan.

ButterflyDragon on April 12, 2010 at 12:12 PM

What a coincidence….

Obama and Medved Sock Puppet, sign the new Treaty. That day the Kyrgyzstan government is overthrown and “Surprise” NoKo has Nukes and tells Obama that he is an idiot. The next day the Polish President and many others DIE in a historic site. And now we see it was Putin who helped with Kyrgystan’s gov overthrow. Who would have thunk it!

Hmmmm… that horse head in our bed is starting to stink.

upinak on April 12, 2010 at 12:23 PM

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