Quotes of the day

catmman on April 11, 2010 at 11:00 PM

Ah yes, but in your world, we wouldn’t and shouldn’t have ‘fought’ the Cold War, now would we?

Uh, either provide a quote where I said any such thing, or admit that you are misrepresenting me, deliberately or otherwise.

We should have waged the Cold War (not fought), because the USSR was in fact an existential threat to the US. They were in fact a superpower that, left unchecked, could have wiped this nation from the face and history of Earth.

Of course, we never really “fought” the Cold war, did we? Funny how Reagan was able to bring down a massive military power like the USSR while firing nary a shot (well, nearly nary a shot). Of course, after we won we didn’t cruise into Moscow to “help them build democracy”, now did we?

The Cold War is where we became an ‘imperialistic’ nation isn’t it? Until the Cold War, we didn’t have all those bases overseas.

The Cold War is over. We won. And yet the bases remain. And they multiply. In places where one has to really stretch to define our national interest. And some on the Right want the number to keep expanding. To defend places like South Korea until.. what, exactly? Until North Korea doesn’t have nuclear weapons? Guess what?!?! That ain’t gonna happen.

Who is going to back North Korea in an invasion of the South? How much military aid do the Norks STILL receive from China?

Well, let’s go to the videotape, sports fans.

According to The Council on Foreign Relations :

Nicholas Eberstadt, a consultant at the World Bank, says that since the early 1990s, China has served as North Korea’s chief food supplier and has accounted for nearly 90 percent of its energy imports. By some estimates, China provides 80 percent of North Korea’s consumer goods and 45 percent of its food. North Korea’s economic dependence on China is rapidly increasing, as indicated by a significant trade imbalance. Snyder notes that in 2008, Chinese imports amounted to $2.03 billion, while exports to China including coal and iron ore totaled $750 million.

So, all of China’s exports to North Korea total $750 million. And no mention of military aid whatsoever.

Yeah, China’s really putting all their chips in on a bet on Pyongyang. /sarc

Yet they persist. They threaten. They have nukes. They somehow stay supplied militarily;

The US was needed to defeat the USSR, because they were an actual threat to us, and in fact to Europe, particularly in the wake of wWII. But the NoKo’s are not the Soviets. And South Korea, left to themselves, could defend themselves in a conventional war. And if the North used nuclear weapons… well, our 30 thousand troops wouldn’t be able to do a damn thing but die, would they. Once again, there are some of us who don’t like US troops being used as pawns in a game of nuclear chess.

But then again, I’ve always wondered about the concern globalists have for the well-being of our troops…

JohnGalt23 on April 12, 2010 at 4:47 AM

So the North Koreans receive no military aid – none – from China? Do they receive any from Russia?

Well, I did you the courtesy of researching how much military aid China gave the NoKo’s (none), after you made an incorrect claim that they were, when in fact, by all indications, they are not.

Maybe you could do all of us the courtesy of of researching how much they get from Russia. Of course, you seem to be fond of making arguments without any evidence, so I won’t hold my breath.

Actually, the number of overseas military bases we have since the end of the cold war has decreased dramatically, didn’t you know that?

And yet the number of countries we’ve given defense commitments to has gone up.

Imagine that.

We’ve left Panama, the Philippines, closed several bases in Germany, England, Italy, Iceland, all over the place

And we’ve added East European countries, Iraq, Kuwait, Afghanistan, and God knows how many former Soviet States.

Funny how that ‘imperialism’ works.

I’m glad you find it funny. I find it rather sad.

True, we now have ‘bases’ in several places in the Middle East, but we’re fighting a war now aren’t we and need those places.

Those places are backwater God-foresaken chunks of suck, whose people demonstrate against our presence every chance they get. If we stay, they are going to remain chunks of suck. If we leave, they will still be chunks of suck. All those places are doing is eating up our treasure.

And they are playing us for defense patsies. So long as we are responsible for their defense, they don’t have to be. And I for one don’t like to be played for a patsy.

But then, I thought we were talking the Korean peninsula, where we are being played for a patsy in spades. Why don’t you define for us what exactly our nation interest in the Korean peninsula is.

JohnGalt23 on April 12, 2010 at 12:09 PM

Why don’t you define for us what exactly our nation interest in the Korean peninsula is.

JohnGalt23 on April 12, 2010 at 12:09 PM

Stopping the Norks? Holding them at bay? Checking them?

Really? That sure as hell sounds like it is South Korea’s interest to do all that stuff. As such, it is incumbent on them to do what needs to be done, rather than doing so on the US’s dime.

You know, you are incredibly stupid or incredibly naive to think the Chinese aren’t helping the Norks militarily.

And yet you haven’t provided one scintilla of evidence that they are, while I have provided evidence that they are not.

Where I come from, it’s considered bad form to question an interlocutor’s sources, without providing any of your own. Which you have quite nocitably failed to do.

Colr me shocked.

Evidence?

Still waiting for that.

The fact they have the military they do, the nuclear capacity they do – all enabled by the aid the Chinese (and Russians) give them.

No, more likely by the fact that they spend, according to the Department of State up to 25% of their GDP on military expenditures.

BTW, that’s what is known as providing sources. You might want to try it to form an argument, rather than talking through your arse.

So, your sources that China and Russia are giving the NoKo’s military aid are…???… still waiting.

Again using your economic argument – how could the Norks be the military power they are without the aid they receive from China and Russia? You yourself showed they haven’t the economic capacity to do anything on their own – or more to the point, the South could crush the North due to the South’s economic capacity – yet the North with all of it’s economic anemia, is still able to be a player on the world stage.

except they aren’t a player on the world stage. Russia is a player. China is a player. NoKo is a joke, although not a very funny one. And yes, they can do damage if they chose to be suicidal about things. But you have yet to put forth any argument that demonstrates how our having 30000 men in SoKo stops them in any way shape or form.

And according to you – without military aid from the Chicoms.

That’s not according to me… that’s according to the Council on Foreign Relations.

Now, if you have any sources that say otherwise, I’d love to hear them. But until you can provide them, I’ll assume that you cannot, and that you cannot because they don’t exist.

What have we gained through our ‘imperialism’? Your so-called ‘War for Oil’ meme petered out.

Much like your claim that I said we shouldn’t have waged the cold War, I’m willing to bet that you have no evidence taht I have ever claimed that there was a “War for Oil”. In fact, you are, one again, talking out of your arse on that count.

I don’t think we fought a war for oil (at least not recently). We fought a war in the ME to satisfy a messianic vision of GWB to democratize the Arab world, a fool’s errand if ever there was one. And no, I don’t think that was in our national interest.

Your ‘American Empire’ meme falters under the basest of scrutiny.

Hundreds of bases, in over a hundred countries. If it looks like empire, if it smells like empire, if it tastes like empire, it probably ain’t a republic.

But then, you really don’t care about the republic, do you?

Everything you site is a contradiction – Norks don’t receive military aid from China, yet are in fact the military power they are due to the aid they receive from China.

Coming from someone who hasn’t yet provided a “citation” (yeah, it’s “cite”, not “site”, which if you had any experience in research, you would of course know) to back up his argument, that one is particularly rich.

So, here’s your chance. Why don’t you cite some literature proving that China is providing military assistance to NoKO. I’ll wait, although given your track record, I suspect I’ll be waiting a long time.

JohnGalt23 on April 12, 2010 at 4:16 PM