Sorry, Palin and Hayworth supporters, but you’re in denial about the McCain endorsement

posted at 3:27 pm on March 29, 2010 by CK MacLeod

We’ve had numerous threads at HotAir – headline and main page – on the Hayworth-McCain race and Palin’s endorsement of her former running mate. The latest item was Meghan McCain’s piece on “McCain-Palin – The Sequel.”  In that piece, Ms. McCain describes the pairing “the best of both Republican worlds.”  It struck me as one of the nicest things she’s said since the end of the campaign.

Some McCain-haters – and there’s really no better word than “hate” for the attitude of many HotAirians regarding McCain – think Palin’s made a “mistake.” Others who like and support Palin, but who remain hostile and suspicious toward McCain and what they believe he represents, believe she’s just “doing what she has to” in demonstrating loyalty to the man who “made her” a multi-millionaire and national political player, and are willing to give her “a mulligan.” Here’s one typical exchange:

I don’t know how many endorsements like these Palin can survive.

DFCtomm on March 29, 2010 at 1:29 PM

HondaV65 on March 29, 2010 at 1:30 PM

ONE. And only ONE.

Many such observers have persuaded themselves that Palin is trying to improve her political prospects and expand her power base. At some unspecified later date, they expect, she’ll be able to call in the chit.  It squares with the view of your average Fox News All-Star always happy to attribute any conduct by any politician to cynicism.

What a load of, ahem, bullcrap!  No one has yet explained why this straight-talking, “if I die, I die” conservative heroine has suddenly turned crafty pol or hypocrite, and yet still could remain a worthy Tea Party leader.

How about this explanation:


Palin supports McCain!

I hope no one finds that too complicated.

In the race with JD Hayworth, I doubt it’s even a close call for her.

Gov Palin agrees with Senator McCain close to 100% on foreign policy. She respects and likes him personally. She doesn’t blame him for the actions of some of his operatives during and after Campaign ’08, and never believed it was his responsibility to play the roll of political Dad and discipline the other kids for her. She was and is quite capable of defending herself and charting her own course, and would have found it condescending and presumptuous for him to play protector.

She has no problem with the main thrust of his domestic views or his overall approach to politics. If she cares much about immigration politics – I’ve seen little evidence of it, though it’s clearly still a big deal to many grassroots conservatives – she’s happy with McCain’s post-”Shamnesty” positioning.  I suspect that she cares enough about the Republican Party’s long-term prospects to want to see the issue handled soberly and positively.

Though post-’08 she’s been driven into a conservative cul-de-sac – in part by political circumstances in the US of A ca. 2010, in part by a learning experience that has included attacks on her from the left and from Brooks-Frum moderate/elitist conservatives – her political profile and her actual political conduct when in office, was moderate, bi- and non-partisan, and altogether maverick-y.

It was classically progressive: reform-oriented, anti-machine politics, woman-empowering, etc. – including not just a willingness but a determination to use government in aid of “social justice” – as in care for the vulnerable (special needs children, indigenous peoples), fair and equitable stewardship and profit-sharing in the exploitation of natural resources, safeguards against self-dealing by powerful economic and political players.

No one is in a position to take an objective measurement, but Palin looks to me to be about as much a McCain conservative as a Tea Party conservative. With the help of, as the governor likes to say, “people of both parties and of no party at all,” that overall political direction represents a potential governing majority.

I personally have no trouble taking the governor at her word on this and most other issues. It’s one of the things I like best about her. My advice is that you stop looking for secret calculations and obscure motives, and stop insulting Palin with the notion that she’s acting on some other basis than her best political and moral judgment. She prefers McCain to Hayworth, probably by a lot. Deal with it.

cross-posted at Zombie Contentions

This post was promoted from GreenRoom to HotAir.com.
To see the comments on the original post, look here.


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Comment pages: 1 2 3 4

There are legit policy differences and you know it.
TheUnrepentantGeek on March 29, 2010 at 5:20 PM

I would have thought the REAL Policy differences were between US and Obama, Pelosi & Reid. What a Stupid thought.

I don’t see where “Corruption” deserves support (JD), while RINO McCain should be retired. When “Corruption” is supposedly the side of the “Angels” I’ll pass.

But, if you can justify it by seeing it as corruption-lite, go for it.

Regards,

ps: for the record I am no fan of McCain, yet less a fan of supporting those with challenged ethics.

the Dragon on March 29, 2010 at 5:32 PM

After reading all this, I have come to to the following conclusions: 1) CK ‘hates’ McCain haters- or pretty close to it; and 2) We already knew AP hates Southerners, but he’s been doing a good job of keeping it under wraps. So it’s hate v hate from what I can tell.

Hey, Ed, who do you hate? I don’t recall you ax grinding with anyone in particular.

PS: Yes, I am a McCain “hater”, but he deserves it so.

JimP on March 29, 2010 at 5:35 PM

I would have thought the REAL Policy differences were between US and Obama, Pelosi & Reid. What a Stupid thought.

the Dragon on March 29, 2010 at 5:32 PM

Not mutually exclusive options.

TheUnrepentantGeek on March 29, 2010 at 5:36 PM

ps: for the record I am no fan of McCain, yet less a fan of supporting those with challenged ethics.

the Dragon on March 29, 2010 at 5:32 PM

Remember though that McCain, among other things, was one of the infamous “Keating Five”. I seem to remember that he was more-or-less cleared by congress but they pretty much clear all of their members.

MB4 on March 29, 2010 at 5:37 PM

Amnesty: didn’t pass
CFR: struck down by SCOTUS
Cap’n Trade: didn’t pass

So because McCain compromised on a few things
joe_doufu on March 29, 2010 at 5:03 PM

You make it sound like he chose Pepsi over Coke. These aren’t petty trifles, sir.

And, neat dichotomy you’ve set up. Because we care about FUNDAMENTAL conservative issues (which your little list is the antithesis of) and the rhetoric as well as record of elected officials, this somehow means we would surrender it all to naked communism just to prove a point?

Nearly all of us held our noses and voted for McCain. While (again) I don’t think he’s the anti Christ, I do hope this dialogue and serious vetting of candidates from here on out will save us from having to vote “lesser of two evils” again. Call me a dreamer.

Diane on March 29, 2010 at 5:38 PM

If she’s putting personal career obligations above what’s best for the country, that whole personna starts to slip a bit.

a capella on March 29, 2010 at 4:50 PM

When did a bunch of internet posters become the final decider for what Sarah Palin thinks is in the best interest of the country? You have your opinion – she has hers. If she listened to internet posters she would have crawled back to Alaska. If you think this is a step too far – so be it, don’t vote for McCain.

You apparently think she should have blown off the guy whose administration she was willing to be part of. I would have questioned why she was willing to be on his ticket if she didn’t think he was a good candidate.

Enough people have posted less than positive things about McCain’s opponent to make it appear he’s not perfect. I must have missed the mandate that you or anyone agree 100% with her decisions.

katiejane on March 29, 2010 at 5:46 PM

Remember though that McCain, among other things, was one of the infamous “Keating Five”. I seem to remember that he was more-or-less cleared by congress but they pretty much clear all of their members.

MB4 on March 29, 2010 at 5:37 PM

I remember it well. It is not one of his brighter moments, yet he seemed the least culpable, if guilty at all, and he seemed to be a Repbulican throw in to offer bi-partisan cover for the 4 Dems. Particularly since DeConcini was the AZ Dem Senator involved as well.

Regards,

the Dragon on March 29, 2010 at 5:50 PM

You better wake up people. We are in a fight and can’t afford to lose that senate seat. The seat also represents how many seats republicans have in committees. Hayworth already lose to the dem once.

oldyeller on March 29, 2010 at 5:50 PM

hey so be it
i like most everyone here including you

So you like all of the people you’ve called haters?

my wagon hitched?

you really are going too far lol

blatantblue on March 29, 2010 at 5:05 PM

Well, you seem to agree with CK Mac that we’re a bunch of haters for disagreeing with McCain, blatantblue, so maybe it’s not too far off after all. And considering that you and CK Macleod are attacking us using means commonly employed against us by the left, (falsely assigning raw hatred as a motivation for political differences), I’d argue that it’s a significant offense, (and revealing).

FloatingRock on March 29, 2010 at 5:52 PM

Whatever label you want to slap on Sarah, she’s still way better than Zero.

Kissmygrits on March 29, 2010 at 5:54 PM

Palin supports McCain POLICIES
Fixed it for you. Foreign Policy, Immigration, health care, gay rights, and government control of energy.

PrezHussein on March 29, 2010 at 5:54 PM

“I remember it well. It is not one of his brighter moments, yet he seemed the least culpable, if guilty at all, and he seemed to be a Repbulican throw in to offer bi-partisan cover for the 4 Dems. Particularly since DeConcini was the AZ Dem Senator involved as well.”
Regards,
the Dragon on March 29, 2010 at 5:50 PM

This is true and it was after all this that Mac began his career as “The Maverick” and started sucking up to the MSM and doing his aisle crossing schtick. Oooooops. There I go “hating” again. Then when ‘W’ thumped him he decided to kick maverickness into overdrive, apparently just to prove something or was it to get even? Ooooops. I did it again. I really need McCain hate therapy. Mea culpa. Does ‘Dr. Buddy’ have classes in that?

JimP on March 29, 2010 at 6:00 PM

It struck me as one of the nicest things she’s said since the end of the campaign.

No, she said something bizarre last week – like when you are forced to give a compliment and it sounds so phony and stilted everyone knows your true feelings.

Some McCain-haters – and there’s really no better word than “hate” for the attitude of many HotAirians regarding McCain – think Palin’s made a “mistake.”

Right, because there is no Palin hatred. You want McCain hatred look no further than the people who allow you to post on HA.

Here’s one typical exchange:

That’s people shooting the breeze. You’re acting like that creep carlie johnson.

Palin supports McCain!
I hope no one finds that too complicated.

People can disagree with Palin!
I hope you don’t find that too complicated, either.

Though post-’08 she’s been driven into a conservative cul-de-sac –

What-evs. But, people don’t come here to be scolded and they don’t come here to be told how they must think.

Blake on March 29, 2010 at 6:01 PM

So you like all of the people you’ve called haters?

Not in general, but McCain haters, yes.

And no, not all of them.

FloatingRock on March 29, 2010 at 5:52 PM

Nice strawman.

It isn’t about the fact people disagree with him. I disagree with him. My blood boils with amnesty.

However, when I see a group of harpies, shrieking about McCain’s HATRED of liberty a couple days back on one of the initial headlines on this issue, I can only deduce that they hate the guy, because the idea is so far fetched, and so detached from reality that there is no other explanation.

blatantblue on March 29, 2010 at 6:02 PM

I dare say you have low standards for your endorsements. You’re clearly more interested in carrying out some kind of Glenn Beckish purge of any Republicans who have ever flirted with “progressive” ideas, than in actually moving the conservative ball down the field. It seems that you consider beating McCain to be more important than beating the Democrat.

joe_doufu on March 29, 2010 at 4:15 PM

If the ball is a progressive one, might as well leave it down that end of the field. We need more options.

McCain’s pretty old. Wonder what motivates a man to stay in politics instead of hanging it up and going fishing. Life’s a short thing.

I like Sara Palin. Seems like a nice woman and very good looking. But, as with any political figure, don’t take things at face value. I worry that many people imprint their own standards on a candidate, like what happened with Obama. I’m holding off on my judgement of her til I know more.

CK: you need to use a spell checker or something. In the context you used it, roll should be role. And, you do need to learn some manners. Calling HA posters as haters and then crossposting on another blog is a douchbag thing to do.

Allahpundit: douchbag. You said it was okay.

fullogas on March 29, 2010 at 6:03 PM

1) I worked my ASS off as a volunteer at our local GOP HQ in 2008, thus I KNOW that we have Sarah Palin, and ONLY Sarah to thank for getting out our local voters. AS a greeter, phone bank caller, and distributor of lawn signs [stickers, buttons, etc...], I HEARD DIRECTLY from people DISGUSTED by McLame’s spending SO much time telling the country about how 0bama was right, and by his reigning in Sarah who, amongst other things, reportedly offered to stump in Michigan. I Have Every Reason to HATE McLame for running the most Piss Poor campaign I’ve ever witnessed.

2) Yes, Sarah is indeed stumping for McLame again, but has anyone REALLY taken a good look at RINO Hayworth lately? That guy is every bit as bad as McShamnesty is, but he lies about it. Do The Research!

3) So, now I’m a HATER, eh? Well, the one fact we all can be certain is that CK McKlod would NEVER have the Guts to call me that to my face. You see, I am a real American who always stands up for myself, and for my beliefs.

My first thought after reading this was, what an utter crock of CRAP!

Enough said.

DannoJyd on March 29, 2010 at 6:03 PM

This whole thing is ridiculous. I dislike McCain on some issues and like him on others. I like Palin on pretty much everything she’s actually addressed, which so far has sometimes lacked specifics. As for Hayworth, he’s a loss. Couldn’t Arizona come up with anyone better?
Unless you think Palin somehow represents the Second Coming or something, why would you expect her to agree with everything you believe? You don’t like her supporting McCain, then find someone else to support. But geez don’t come on to some web site and whine about it. It’s like people who complain and disagree with their church instead of going out and finding one they can agree with.
I think this whole thread ended up as a waste of time. Some people just can’t give up some deified image they have of a person.
As for the term “haters,” I’d say that’s a pretty accurate description of some of the comments I’ve read in the past.

Deanna on March 29, 2010 at 6:05 PM

FloatingRock on March 29, 2010 at 5:52 PM

Then please take offense.

The article seemed pretty straight forward as to why Sarah Palin could support John McCain, and gave suggested reasons.

You disagree. Fair enough.

Let me ask you why you support a candidate of Questionable Ethics?

Is the battle cry going to be “OUR Corrupt Thugs are better than YOUR Corrupt Thugs”?

Also, you complain about tactics employed by the left, while engaging in tactics employed by the left. IF you cannot disagree WITHOUT calling for banishment, what does that make your ideas?

Just save us the blather and vote Democrat to show CK.

Regards,

the Dragon on March 29, 2010 at 6:05 PM

Bottom line: McCain’s got an 82 Lifetime ACU rating, and an NTU in the 80s.

He’s not perfect, and yes he does greatly dissapoint at times, but he’s our guy, and he’s a damned loyal Republican.

Good move Sarah!

(And I say this as someone who has always liked J.D. and hope he runs for something else in the future.)

ericdondero on March 29, 2010 at 6:06 PM

This is the most insulting post I think I’ve ever read here on HA. I voted for McCain and ok doing so if it meant stopping the trainwreck of an Obama presidency. However, I have serious political differences with the man that I am vocal about and that makes me a ‘hater’?!? The definition of true hatred these days is pretty lax. As far as Palin goes, I think she is a good person, and she is supporting the man who brought her to the national stage, and I have no problem with that.

Oh, and AP: Go Sheesh yourself. Whatever disagreements I’ve had with you, your posts have always been thoughtful, concise, and most importantly, respectful towards your readers. CK’s post strikes me as full of the typical Frumesque, I’m-smarter-than-you-wingnuts attitude. (plus it looks like an admittedly successful cheap attempt to temporarily boost traffic) It reminds me of O’Reilly when he spouts off about the ‘haters’ on both sides. Hate is a word that is bandied about with far too much ease.

SG1_Conservative on March 29, 2010 at 6:06 PM

Palin did agree to help McCain before Hayworth entered the race. So technically when she did agree to pitch in for McCain she was not supporting McCain over Hayworth.

technopeasant on March 29, 2010 at 6:08 PM

Deanna on March 29, 2010 at 6:05 PM

Well said.

Thankfully (in this respect), Ronald Reagan is dead. IF he were alive, I suspect he would endorse McCain. Would be a pitty listening to all the invective that would be spewed against him.

Regards,

the Dragon on March 29, 2010 at 6:09 PM

Michelle Malkin: Miss me yet?

d1carter on March 29, 2010 at 3:53 PM

+ eleventy billion

pseudonominus on March 29, 2010 at 6:09 PM

This post is disturbing. CK MacLeod–you have every right to your opinion and to express it. But your tone and rhetoric (“Hot Airians”???; “McCain haters“; “bullcrap”; “Deal with it”) is combative, condescending, and belligerent. Additionally, this exemplifies bad journalism by not allowing the two commenters to respond to your post or allow them to explain themselves. My understanding is that the writer should request the consent of the person to use their quote, especially given the way you portrayed both of them. Did you do that?

You can hide behind your cheap shots earlier in this thread toward DFCtomm, but it’s disgusting. You used this post as a bully pulpit and extracted two comments to prove your point–a point that is an opinion, not a fact. I thought we were free to disagree around here, but this post seems to say otherwise.

conservative pilgrim on March 29, 2010 at 6:13 PM

Well said.

Thankfully (in this respect), Ronald Reagan is dead. IF he were alive, I suspect he would endorse McCain. Would be a pitty listening to all the invective that would be spewed against him.

Regards,

the Dragon on March 29, 2010 at 6:09 PM

I’ve often wondered how Reagan would be treated by some people if he were starting out today. But some have deified him to the point where it’s difficult to tell the real Reagan from what people project onto him. They’re doing the same thing to Palin, only she’s still around to make so-called mistakes.
And then there’s all the people who are insulted by the term “haters” when I think it seems reasonable, considering some of the invective against McCain I’ve read here. You know, unless they were one of the posters making those comments, it doesn’t apply to them. Maybe it hit a bit too close to home?

Deanna on March 29, 2010 at 6:16 PM

considering some of the invective against McCain I’ve read here.

Thank you.

People think CK has no reason for thinking people hate McCain.

Well, they’re being either dishonest or they don’t read McCain threads very thoroughly.

blatantblue on March 29, 2010 at 6:18 PM

And honestly, I don’t get upset too much over the invective

It’s the blaring hypocrisy.

The ‘Nistas have labeled AP a hater for over a year, and when someone calls them haters of McCain, they get soooooooooooo angry

“The nerve!”

“Unconscionable!”

blatantblue on March 29, 2010 at 6:22 PM

I thought we were free to disagree around here, but this post seems to say otherwise.

conservative pilgrim on March 29, 2010 at 6:13 PM

Fair enough, Do I NOW have to clear any post I intend to make with you.

I don’t post here much, yet read multiple times daily. Unfortunately, CK accurately discribes the anti-McCain tone in most threads. Maybe, CK should have replaced “Haters” with “Disparagers”…make you feel better.

And by the way,

your post is a point that is an opinion, not a fact

. Two can play this grade school crap.

Regards,

the Dragon on March 29, 2010 at 6:23 PM

Deanna on March 29, 2010 at 6:16 PM

I go back to the point I made before. The tone of post is insulting. The word hate is thrown around far too indiscriminately in our society. I don’t like McCain (and I’ll admit I occasionally call him McShamnesty to make a point), but I don’t attached love or hate to any person I don’t know personally. I think what CK calls ‘hate’ is merely hyperbole from a concerned commenteriat trying to make a point.

SG1_Conservative on March 29, 2010 at 6:25 PM

People think CK has no reason for thinking people hate McCain.

Well, they’re being either dishonest or they don’t read McCain threads very thoroughly.

blatantblue on March 29, 2010 at 6:18 PM

It’s the provocative tone of this post. Macleod came out swinging and looking for a fight. Well, he got one. Was it worth it?

conservative pilgrim on March 29, 2010 at 6:25 PM

It’s the provocative tone of this post. Macleod came out swinging and looking for a fight. Well, he got one. Was it worth it?

conservative pilgrim on March 29, 2010 at 6:25 PM

AP drools at the hit count

So yes?

:P

blatantblue on March 29, 2010 at 6:26 PM

To all you Palin-haters: fess up-and claim that she is RINO (moderate). And then tell us based on everything that Palin has said or done in the last 18 months (after the campaign) that proves your point that she is one.

Just a reminder, Palin had to endorse whatever McCain supported or advocated during the campaign. That is part and parcel of being a VP running mate. Do you remember Bush 41 castigated Reagan over “voodoo economics” in 1980 only to have to jump on board to back Reaganomics 100% when Reagan chose him as his VP.

technopeasant on March 29, 2010 at 6:26 PM

Fair enough, Do I NOW have to clear any post I intend to make with you.

I don’t post here much, yet read multiple times daily. Unfortunately, CK accurately discribes the anti-McCain tone in most threads. Maybe, CK should have replaced “Haters” with “Disparagers”…make you feel better.

And by the way,
your post is a point that is an opinion, not a fact
. Two can play this grade school crap.

Regards,

the Dragon on March 29, 2010 at 6:23 PM

There’s a way to make a point tactfully and amicably without insulting and disparaging another person to make your point, Macleod fails at both. As do you.

conservative pilgrim on March 29, 2010 at 6:29 PM

And considering that you and CK Macleod are attacking us using means commonly employed against us by the left, (falsely assigning raw hatred as a motivation for political differences), I’d argue that it’s a significant offense, (and revealing).

FloatingRock on March 29, 2010 at 5:52 PM

Then please take offense.

the Dragon on March 29, 2010 at 6:05 PM

I do, and based on the rest of your comment it seems that you want to be included among those employing the lefts tactic of falsely assigning hatred as the motivation behind political differences.

IF you cannot disagree WITHOUT calling for banishment, what does that make your ideas?

You just made that up; I didn’t call to banish anybody. There are a few other instances in your comment in which you’ve tried to assign opinions to me that I don’t hold, but maybe you’re just trying to demonstrate how easy it is to falsely accuse somebody of being motivated by hatred rather than any of a million other possible reasons that have nothing to do with hate.

FloatingRock on March 29, 2010 at 6:29 PM

To spend hours pontificating the conservative pureness of Palin’s endorsement of McCain is living in a world of black and white. Those of us who face issues more complex than a dog with a bone will never realize this utopia self-righteousness. CK – Get a life.

EyesOpen on March 29, 2010 at 6:32 PM

blatantblue on March 29, 2010 at 6:26 PM

BB–I don’t think so. I LOVE this place. I learn, am informed, grow in knowledge, am challenged to think through my views, and hear other perspectives in a way that I wouldn’t in real life (most people don’t want to discuss politics like we do here in real life). I’ve developed some friendships with others here…..but this post leaves me feeling like I just got hit in the gut. The tone, the attack mode, the way two commenters were characterized, the infighting over four threads……No, it wasn’t worth it.

conservative pilgrim on March 29, 2010 at 6:32 PM

I think what CK calls ‘hate’ is merely hyperbole from a concerned commenteriat trying to make a point.

SG1_Conservative on March 29, 2010 at 6:25 PM

If that’s true in your case then it doesn’t apply to you. My point is two-fold: One, there have been plenty of posts about McCain that can be construed as hateful, no one can deny that. And two, unless a person is one of those posters than they have no reason to feel insulted.
I criticize McCain alot, but I don’t use hyperbole…it’s a waste of time.
As for the tone of the post…so what? Now you’re saying others can use hyperbole and it’s okay, but CK can’t?

Deanna on March 29, 2010 at 6:33 PM

Deanna on March 29, 2010 at 6:16 PM

I was First involved in politics in 1975. I think it’s Norman Podhoretz article linked by HA yesterday(?) http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703909804575123773804984924.html?mod=WSJ_newsreel_opinion
gives an interesting comparison of how Reagan and Palin are/were perceived by the Republican/Conservative Establishment.

You are correct that much is projected on both Reagan and Palin, yet one common characteristic is that BOTH fight onward with optimism and good cheer. Both seem to have a guiding compass, and both I suspect were/are not as doctrinaire “Conservative” as some would wish.

Regards,

the Dragon on March 29, 2010 at 6:33 PM

People think CK has no reason for thinking people hate McCain.

Well, they’re being either dishonest or they don’t read McCain threads very thoroughly.

blatantblue on March 29, 2010 at 6:18 PM

And you are way out of the ballpark. Disagreeing with McCain and or his policies does not make everyone a hater. That’s a tactic the left uses.

Please put your broad brush down, it doesn’t suit you.

Knucklehead on March 29, 2010 at 6:34 PM

conservative pilgrim on March 29, 2010 at 6:32 PM

dont let it bother you too much

its one mans opinion (no offense CK)

blatantblue on March 29, 2010 at 6:34 PM

You make it sound like he chose Pepsi over Coke. These aren’t petty trifles, sir.

And, neat dichotomy you’ve set up. Because we care about FUNDAMENTAL conservative issues (which your little list is the antithesis of) and the rhetoric as well as record of elected officials, this somehow means we would surrender it all to naked communism just to prove a point?

Diane on March 29, 2010 at 5:38 PM

That paragraph doesn’t make any sense. What dichotomy did I set up? Which issues do you think are fundamental and which not?

The point of the text you quoted was exactly this: McCain has strategically compromised with Democrats on (emotionally) big issues (for them) like amnesty (without actually passing the thing). These compromises have earned him a prominence and a level of respect from moderates and independents that have allowed him to be a powerful, effective spokesman for conservatism. He has played effective politics and moved the ball down the field, and continues to do so.

McCain seems to understand something you and the rest of the purity-test crowd don’t: when the lunatics are barking at you on your right flank, that actually helps you get stuff done.

joe_doufu on March 29, 2010 at 6:35 PM

People think CK has no reason for thinking people hate McCain.

Well, they’re being either dishonest or they don’t read McCain threads very thoroughly.

blatantblue on March 29, 2010 at 6:18 PM

Well just as long as none of the “haters” say that any of McCain’s positions makes their blood boil. Now that would be over the top. No one has said that, have they?

MB4 on March 29, 2010 at 6:36 PM

Knucklehead on March 29, 2010 at 6:34 PM

strawman

as i said, disagreeing doesnt make one a hater

the invective does

and it is THERE

blatantblue on March 29, 2010 at 6:36 PM

smearing mccain by saying he hates liberty and freedom makes me think one is a hater.

not simply disagreeing

blatantblue on March 29, 2010 at 6:37 PM

blatantblue on March 29, 2010 at 6:34 PM

I dunno….there are plenty of disagreements here at HA with great intensity, but this one just seems like it crossed a line. I don’t like at all that two commenters were called out like that in an insulting way. I have no idea if they’re “McCain haters” or not, but this article gives me no alternative than to assume they are. I know that isn’t true though. Just doesn’t seem right.

anyway….

conservative pilgrim on March 29, 2010 at 6:37 PM

whatever
if you think there hasn’t been extreme and over the top rhetoric towards mccain, y’all aint reading

ive been called a palin hater for saying a lot less.

blatantblue on March 29, 2010 at 6:38 PM

conservative pilgrim on March 29, 2010 at 6:37 PM

I think worse has been said from Palinistas towards other folks here, to be frank.

blatantblue on March 29, 2010 at 6:39 PM

I dunno….there are plenty of disagreements here at HA with great intensity, but this one just seems like it crossed a line. I don’t like at all that two commenters were called out like that in an insulting way. I have no idea if they’re “McCain haters” or not, but this article gives me no alternative than to assume they are. I know that isn’t true though. Just doesn’t seem right.

anyway….

conservative pilgrim on March 29, 2010 at 6:37 PM

Exactly. If I wanted to be called a hater just because I disagree, I could go comment on Yahoo News or somewhere else. There’s plenty of name calling out there. This place sure has changed recently. Shame.

fullogas on March 29, 2010 at 6:41 PM

blatantblue on March 29, 2010 at 6:38 PM

Yeah, there’s some extreme rhetoric toward McCain. I saw that thread the other day…but is this the way to pushback? I’ll ask a different way–if Ed were to write a post on this topic, is this what he would write? I don’t think so.

Anywhoo…I think I need to take a break from HA for a while.

conservative pilgrim on March 29, 2010 at 6:42 PM

conservative pilgrim on March 29, 2010 at 6:42 PM

Maybe you do need a break
I took a good fat long one and probably will soon again

blatantblue on March 29, 2010 at 6:43 PM

blatantblue on March 29, 2010 at 6:43 PM

K. see you on the other side of the break then. :-)

conservative pilgrim on March 29, 2010 at 6:43 PM

K. see you on the other side of the break then. :-)

conservative pilgrim on March 29, 2010 at 6:43 PM

take a day break

dont go too long

y’all come back now!

blatantblue on March 29, 2010 at 6:44 PM

HA endorses the tactics and tone by publishing this post. They own everything at HA except the comments(read the Terms of Use). Endorsing this post and promoting it to the front page really bothers me.

d1carter on March 29, 2010 at 6:44 PM

the Dragon on March 29, 2010 at 6:33 PM

Thanks for the link. I first cast a vote in the 1968 elections. Now that was a trial by fire. LOL

But quite honestly nothing has really changed that much. I’ve heard and read this kind of “hyberole” or whatever it’s called today for many years from all sides of the political spectrum. The only thing that’s changed is the national/international instant access provided by the internet. Before it was shouted or argued in bars, at parties, amongst families, etc. It doesn’t bother me until it reaches the point of no return, and that has happened in the past and maybe even today.

Deanna on March 29, 2010 at 6:44 PM

SG1_Conservative on March 29, 2010 at 6:25 PM

If that’s true in your case then it doesn’t apply to you. My point is two-fold: One, there have been plenty of posts about McCain that can be construed as hateful, no one can deny that. And two, unless a person is one of those posters than they have no reason to feel insulted.
I criticize McCain alot, but I don’t use hyperbole…it’s a waste of time.
As for the tone of the post…so what? Now you’re saying others can use hyperbole and it’s okay, but CK can’t?

Deanna on March 29, 2010 at 6:33 PM

Virtually any critical post of a person can be construed as hateful here in the realm of anonymous internet posting. Maybe I’m naive, but I have very very rarely seen a post here that I would describe as truly hateful. Secondly, the tone of the post has nothing to do with hyperbole, it is the condescending, holier-than-thou attitude it takes with regard to the readers that I find offensive. IDK, I could be way off here, but the broad brush CK uses on people who don’t care for McCain’s politics seems unnecessary. There is a big difference between waxing hyperbole about a single politician or theme, and branding a group a people you don’t know ‘haters’. My big point is that hatred is a deeply personal emotion, and I don’t believe it should be so carelessly bandied about to label anonymous posters.

SG1_Conservative on March 29, 2010 at 6:45 PM

as i said, disagreeing doesnt make one a hater

the invective does

and it is THERE

blatantblue on March 29, 2010 at 6:36 PM

If one is to fight McCain’s or Obama’s positions, and many of them are very similar, would you have them do it stintingly?

PercyB on March 29, 2010 at 6:45 PM

If one is to fight McCain’s or Obama’s positions, and many of them are very similar, would you have them do it stintingly?

PercyB on March 29, 2010 at 6:45 PM

noooo
but people here smearing mccain by saying he hates liberty is shameful and unacceptable, and indicative of a hate towards him. thats all

i tried to write a poem to express the above thoughts, to no avail.

blatantblue on March 29, 2010 at 6:47 PM

smearing mccain by saying he hates liberty and freedom makes me think one is a hater.

not simply disagreeing

blatantblue on March 29, 2010 at 6:37 PM

I agree, but I’ve never seen this here. I guess I don’t go here regularly enough.

SG1_Conservative on March 29, 2010 at 6:48 PM

I agree, but I’ve never seen this here. I guess I don’t go here regularly enough.

SG1_Conservative on March 29, 2010 at 6:48 PM

it was on the headline thread when it first kind of broke or whatever
i was shocked.

shocked i tell ya

blatantblue on March 29, 2010 at 6:49 PM

HA endorses the tactics and tone by publishing this post. They own everything at HA except the comments(read the Terms of Use). Endorsing this post and promoting it to the front page really bothers me.

d1carter on March 29, 2010 at 6:44 PM

HA is going off the rails.

Perhaps the new tracks will lead to Charles Johnsonville, who knows.

pseudonominus on March 29, 2010 at 6:51 PM

i tried to write a poem to express the above thoughts, to no avail.

blatantblue on March 29, 2010 at 6:47 PM

You may use mine, my lad.

It is read in mournful cadence.

Do you remember the sweep of your deeds
The sound of them strumming the sky?
But now whenever I listen, the melody’s changed
Your words only whisper goodbye
I don’t want to morn, John, when I think of you
But now whenever you speak, I do

PercyB on March 29, 2010 at 6:52 PM

Maybe I’m naive, but I have very very rarely seen a post here that I would describe as truly hateful.
SG1_Conservative on March 29, 2010 at 6:45 PM

Well I would disagree and I’m anything but naive. And if they’re anonymous why would they care what is said? I think you and others are being too sensitive. I post at and read several sites and this one can be just as rough and tumble as any…or have you forgotten the bannings? I’m too old to get upset about what some poster says on the internet. If it doesn’t apply to me, and in this case it doesn’t, it has no meaning. You’re projecting what you believe should be the tone and content of posts, and maybe that is just as wrong. After all it isn’t your site. On that note I’m off to cook some dinner. Have a good one.

Deanna on March 29, 2010 at 6:54 PM

I think worse has been said from Palinistas towards other folks here, to be frank.

blatantblue on March 29, 2010 at 6:39 PM

Well Frank, Palin supporters have been barraged since August 2008. We are a bit raw from all the mortars lobed from the left. It is especially sour to have people on your own side pull the pin on grenades and toss them into our fox holes.

Can palinistas go over the top? You betcha.

Can those who do not support Palin lighten up a bit with the nasty vitriol? Yes.

Can people separate McCain the War hero & McCain the politician? I don’t think so. I both like and hate the guy at the same time.

One thing for sure McCain atleast lays his problems out on the table for all to see. JD Hayworth has as much hidden under the table, as he has on it.

portlandon on March 29, 2010 at 6:54 PM

PercyB on March 29, 2010 at 6:52 PM

the women must fall into your arms nude

cause you have a way with words

blatantblue on March 29, 2010 at 6:54 PM

You just made that up; I didn’t call to banish anybody. There are a few other instances in your comment in which you’ve tried to assign opinions to me that I don’t hold, but maybe you’re just trying to demonstrate how easy it is to falsely accuse somebody of being motivated by hatred rather than any of a million other possible reasons that have nothing to do with hate.

FloatingRock on March 29, 2010 at 6:29 PM

Floating Rock, I went back to re-read the earlier posts and I conflated a number of posts which ended with one by you…I APOLOGIZE.

For this to be about the semantics of “hater”, there are larger fish to fry. You might chill out a bit, as “hater” for good or ill seems to have leaked in the lexicon as something far less sweeping than the dictionary definition of “Hate” or “Hater”. To act as this is not so…

the Dragon on March 29, 2010 at 6:55 PM

thomasaur on March 29, 2010 at 4:37 PM

As a female-type person, this made me laugh out loud–I thought the same thing, myself.

DrMagnolias on March 29, 2010 at 6:56 PM

whatever
if you think there hasn’t been extreme and over the top rhetoric towards mccain, y’all aint reading

ive been called a palin hater for saying a lot less.

blatantblue on March 29, 2010 at 6:38 PM

Intense political disagreement with a politician, especially one which is often viewed as a ideological turn-coat on many issues, frequently results in insult and ridicule without personal hatred playing a role.

FloatingRock on March 29, 2010 at 6:56 PM

blatantblue on March 29, 2010 at 6:49 PM

OK, I didn’t read that, I’m an irregular here at HA :) I just think the post was a little too combative. Singling out two comments was in particularly bad taste. The post really doesn’t add anything substantive to the debate and comes off as a petty rambling designed to spark debate/traffic, which I guess it has.

SG1_Conservative on March 29, 2010 at 6:57 PM

SG1_Conservative on March 29, 2010 at 6:57 PM

irregularity is awful aint it?

;P

blatantblue on March 29, 2010 at 6:59 PM

CK,

Palin doesn’t have to live in AZ with McCain. She also wasn’t stabbed in the back on the Gang of 14 and the Bush Tax Cuts.

Finally, McCain has been anything but a Republican on Spending. He supported that mess called TARP.

Why don’t you go read post by a better blogger.

Tim Burton on March 29, 2010 at 7:04 PM

if you think there hasn’t been extreme and over the top rhetoric towards mccain, y’all aint reading

ive been called a palin hater for saying a lot less.

blatantblue on March 29, 2010 at 6:38 PM

I think the bar for what constitutes “over the top rhetoric” has seen quite a bit of movement recently. In fact, its position seems to exhibit a strong positive correlation with how one views the politician.

How surprising.

So unless you or CK like to declare yourselves adjudicator of the line of acceptable decorum in political rhetoric your argument appears to be on rather shaky ground.

Regardless, the central question here isn’t the hating McCain haters, it’s MCCAIN. What are his positions really and how closely do they align with conservative values? I don’t think they do very well on anything but some aspects of foreign policy.

But then I think the primary driver of McCain’s actions is his ego, not any particular ideology. Which is why I question Sarah’s judgment of her endorsement of the man.

TheUnrepentantGeek on March 29, 2010 at 7:05 PM

he women must fall into your arms nude

cause you have a way with words

blatantblue on March 29, 2010 at 6:54 PM

No, I never pulled her in
Still her tenderness was everywhere
Oh, she slipped beneath my skin
Just as if she’d always been right there
Had she been there all along?
Was I too far gone to know?
What a fool I must have been
For how could I pull her in
When I’ve never let her go?

PercyB on March 29, 2010 at 7:05 PM

Deanna on March 29, 2010 at 6:54 PM

I’m not trying to dictate the tone of the site. But, at the same time I draw the line at bloggers who are as condescending as this:

I hope no one finds that too complicated.

Deal with it.

I think it hurts CK’s argument. HA can post whatever it wants, but posts like this will ultimately kill its traffic IMO.

SG1_Conservative on March 29, 2010 at 7:08 PM

Why don’t you go read post by a better blogger.
Tim Burton on March 29, 2010 at 7:04 PM

Do you really think that CK isn’t familiar with the writings of Michelle Malkin? Furthermore, if Michelle still owned HA, do you think that she would have muzzled CK’s story? Sorry, not in a million years. Congrats, CK! You’ve made Allah look almost Ed-like. Keep writing, it’s still a free country…

joejm65 on March 29, 2010 at 7:14 PM

but people here smearing mccain by saying he hates liberty is shameful and unacceptable, and indicative of a hate towards him. thats all

blatantblue on March 29, 2010 at 6:47 PM

I haven’t seen that thread, but if it was worse than usual it’s probably because McCain has been involved in what I’ve heard described as a dirty campaign in Arizona. McCain apparently started running attack ads against Hayworth even before he entered the race. They accuse him of corruption even though Hayworth’s status with the Abramoff scandal is the same as McCain’s status with the Keating Five scandal—and Keating Five was a much bigger scandal. If McCain is going to play hardball then he shouldn’t complain when the other team is up to bat.

So if there is some new “McCain hatred” that has popped up here recently that I’m not aware of, perhaps the real problem is that there’s too much hatred all around. Hatred from McCain’s campaign as well as his opponent.

I think CK Macleod is on the offensive because he realizes his favorite progressive candidate is vulnerable. In other words, because he’s a racist.

FloatingRock on March 29, 2010 at 7:15 PM

It’s a political debt she has to pay, pure and simple. And Palin makes it tally in her personal/political life as it would in her government life: debts must be paid.

Once the primary is past, the debt is paid and I’ll bet she never endorses him for anything ever again.

ElRonaldo on March 29, 2010 at 7:16 PM

Regardless, the central question here isn’t the hating McCain haters, it’s MCCAIN. What are his positions really and how closely do they align with conservative values? I don’t think they do very well on anything but some aspects of foreign policy.

But then I think the primary driver of McCain’s actions is his ego, not any particular ideology. Which is why I question Sarah’s judgment of her endorsement of the man.

TheUnrepentantGeek on March 29, 2010 at 7:05 PM

Fair enough.

Would it be fair to question someone’s support of JD Hayworth, due to his questionable ethics?

Would it be fair to question someone’s support of JD Hayworth, due to the likelyhood his nomination would likely elect a Democrat Senator? Who would likely be to the left of John McCain?

I would be all on board ousting John McCain IF JD Hayworth was a Marco Rubio…IMHO he is not, and maybe not even a Charlie Crist.

I guess we each must decide what moves us closer to the objective of repealing Obamacare. Maybe it is a democrat, yet I doubt it.

Regards,

the Dragon on March 29, 2010 at 7:17 PM

Palin is being..PALIN!!! Don’t know why that’s so hard for some people to accept. You don’t have to agree with her on everything to respect that she has her own personal views and above everything else she is true to herself marching to the beat of her own drum.

docdave on March 29, 2010 at 7:21 PM

You are a conservative, CK, Palin is a Republican. You deal with it.

Knott Buyinit on March 29, 2010 at 7:26 PM

I APOLOGIZE.

Accepted, thanks.

For this to be about the semantics of “hater”, there are larger fish to fry. You might chill out a bit, as “hater” for good or ill seems to have leaked in the lexicon as something far less sweeping than the dictionary definition of “Hate” or “Hater”. To act as this is not so…

the Dragon on March 29, 2010 at 6:55 PM

I don’t think many here will agree that we should accept the lefts definition of hate, hater or hatred, but I don’t think it’s even accurate. When the left accuses us of hatred or racism, that’s exactly what they mean. There is no sugar-coating; it is no joke.

FloatingRock on March 29, 2010 at 7:30 PM

I don’t think many here will agree that we should accept the lefts definition of hate, hater or hatred, but I don’t think it’s even accurate. When the left accuses us of hatred or racism, that’s exactly what they mean. There is no sugar-coating; it is no joke.

FloatingRock on March 29, 2010 at 7:30 PM

Maybe you are correct, although I post mostly on sports blogs, although I read political & sports equally.

I am not sure it is a left thing so much as a “BLOG” thing, as I have seen “hater” used far more frequently on sports blogs, and use it frequently myself. Practical definition is “dislike”.

Regards,

the Dragon on March 29, 2010 at 7:34 PM

TO: SG1_Conservative on March 29, 2010 at 6:57 PM

I think your points are well taken. CK’s column IS unnecessarily condesending and belligerent, and has an ‘Eff’ you style and tone, as you and others have pointed out.

Since he ‘analyzed’ McCain haters (of which I certainly assume I am one in CK’s eyes), I’ll suggest an anlysis of him. CK’s mad, and this is payback. Apparently he’s mad because he likes McCain (to some unkown extent) and the legitimate “hard” analyses of Mac’s behavior and character heaped upon him by many of us here threatens Mac’s chances or maybe Palin’s. So he takes the hateful route of insulting commenters by judging us as haters. He justifies McCain’s disloyalty to Palin being stabbed in the back with the kopout of saying she could take care of herself and it wasn’t Mac’s place to play Dad. This missed the point. McCain the Naval Officer allowed conduct prejudicial to good order and discipline while at the same time showing disloyalty to his hand picked running mate. This was at once dishonorable and terrible management. Commanding officers are responsible for everything that happens under their command. MCain did nothing while his crew plotted mutiny against the XO. It is SOP to squelch this kind of stuff during campaigns in no uncertain terms, and if Mac were as honorable as some want us to believe he, would have spoken up after his loss when Palin was being savaged. It’s NOT about Sarah, it’s about McCain and LOYALTY and being an effective commander and Mac’s CHARACTER. Mac allowed mutiny during and effectively after the campaign by saying nothing about the back stabbing. Plus, everyone knows Sarah can take care of herself.

So, in my humble “McCain hater” opinion, CK has his own agenda, is mad and is taking it out on commenters. It’s petty as you said and it’s misplaced.

JimP on March 29, 2010 at 7:39 PM

Today has been a revelation.

It seems that maybe if you folks can get rid of CK and McCain ALL will be better.

I would have thought that the goal was stopping Obama. Oh wel, I am sure electing another Dem will achieve that goal in spades.

Regards,

the Dragon on March 29, 2010 at 7:57 PM

the Dragon on March 29, 2010 at 7:57 PM

First CK is not an elected official. Second I am all for stopping Barry, but if we have better options than the McCain/Crist/Graham types, why should we not take them. Yes, McCain is 10x better than the One, that’s why I voted for him. I think what many (including myself) are sick of is the McCain types who spend much of their time attacking conservatives and not the liberals (see the ’08 campaign, McCain would barely touch Obama).

SG1_Conservative on March 29, 2010 at 8:16 PM

What’s the matter, Ed and Allah–has traffic been down since the sale and the ban hammer? A article that would have been open for discussion is fine, but this was an attack article….it smacks of STFU–and you knew how that would make us feel..

Cheap shot…you guys used to be better than this…

lovingmyUSA on March 29, 2010 at 8:24 PM

McCain types who spend much of their time attacking conservatives and not the liberals (see the ‘08 campaign, McCain would barely touch Obama).

SG1_Conservative on March 29, 2010 at 8:16 PM

And is the biggest evidence yet that Palin is not cut from the same cloth of McCain. Palin has never attacked a conservative. Has really never attacked the GOP except when there was crimnal behavior.

unseen on March 29, 2010 at 8:45 PM

ps: for the record I am no fan of McCain, yet less a fan of supporting those with challenged ethics.

the Dragon on March 29, 2010 at 5:32 PM

I consider an attack on the 1st Amendment “challenged ethics.”

True_King on March 29, 2010 at 9:22 PM

Bishop on March 29, 2010 at 4:14 PM

LMAO! Funny. Very, very funny.

freeus on March 29, 2010 at 10:49 PM

I wonder how many of the JD haters even live in AZ or lived there during the Keating 5?
I do and still do and he’s still much better than McCain.
It’s also amusing to call him corrupt while giving a pass to McCain.
JD was taking money from the tribes BEFORE Abramoff ever came on the scene. JD did nothing wrong. McCain, was clearly in Keating’s pocket tho and did intervene on his behalf. Yes he balked at a major request from Keating, but that makes him smart enough to avoid a clear violation, not ethical.
That’s ok, JD will continue to gain momentum like he has been. Hopefully we can bounce McCain once and for all.

Hard Right on March 29, 2010 at 10:57 PM

Do you really think that CK isn’t familiar with the writings of Michelle Malkin? Furthermore, if Michelle still owned HA, do you think that she would have muzzled CK’s story? Sorry, not in a million years. Congrats, CK! You’ve made Allah look almost Ed-like. Keep writing, it’s still a free country…

joejm65 on March 29, 2010 at 7:14 PM

Except, the problem is that CK doesn’t address those issues that Michelle brings up. She basically ignores them for “Palin really likes McCain” post.

Tim Burton on March 29, 2010 at 11:41 PM

McCain’s post shamnesty position? Are you talking about his statement “I will build the damn fence”? He is still the same luke warm Republican that he always was and why Palin is supporting him is beyond me. Maybe he has kidnapped one of her family members and holding them ransom.

SGinNC on March 30, 2010 at 7:43 AM

CK MacLeod is almost ready to post at FrumForum or DailyBeast. How much farther are you going to drift away?

Americannodash on March 29, 2010 at 4:54 PM

He’s going for the ‘Christopher Buckley Award for Relevance Self-Negation’ level.

rayra on March 30, 2010 at 1:41 PM

whatever
if you think there hasn’t been extreme and over the top rhetoric towards mccain, y’all aint reading

ive been called a palin hater for saying a lot less.

blatantblue on March 29, 2010 at 6:38 PM

Who gives a rat’s behind? It isn’t about YOU and your feelings. Or MacIdiot’s poses. It’s about liberal morons incessantly dragging the GOP to the left. And redoubling their efforts now that conservatives are actually making their voices heard. It doesn’t matter a tinker’s damn which politicians’ names are staked out on the positions. Or how much garbage people like you try to shovel, attempting to ‘frame’ the issue in a way that gives you a default victory (in your own crappy little liberal word-police universe).
Just go to hell and quit pretending you’d EVER vote for anything with an (R) next to it, liberal.

rayra on March 30, 2010 at 1:50 PM

JMHO. I believe one of the darkest clouds hanging over John McCain was his handshake with Ted Kennedy, and the two co-sponsoring failed S-2611, comprehensive immigration. That’s been a very difficult smell to overcome!

byteshredder on March 30, 2010 at 2:50 PM

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