Dean: Of course ObamaCare is wealth redistribution!

posted at 10:55 am on March 29, 2010 by Ed Morrissey

Well, it’s not like this is a shock to any of us on the Right — and it’s not as if other Democrats haven’t been saying the same thing, even if a bit sotto voce. The class-warfare arguments have always based themselves on the idea that government should exist to redistribute wealth from haves to have-nots, although one has to marvel at Howard Dean suddenly becoming concerned that we may tip a little to closely to Europe in our approach.  Do class warriors often get caught talking about disincentives like this? (via Naked Emperor News and Breitbart TV)


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I’m all for wealth redistribution as long as I’m redistributing my wealth voluntarily, you are redistributing your wealth voluntarily, and the government is imposing upon us for some reasonable amount of our wealth to perform functions that only it can perform: nationl defense and some other governmental functions.

BuckeyeSam on March 29, 2010 at 12:11 PM

So many words to say nothing at all. I’m surprised your head doesn’t implode at sea level.

AsianGirlInTights on March 29, 2010 at 12:04 PM

Try unplugging your ears and opening your eyes.

Dark-Star on March 29, 2010 at 12:12 PM

Let me give you a bit of unwanted advice.

Join the real conversation on the issues.

AnninCA on March 29, 2010 at 12:07 PM

I’m trying to find it. It’s hard to locate through the cloud of worthless generalities and countless inanities you puff into this and every thread you visit.

I asked you a direct and specific question at 11:47. If you want to have a real conversation on the issues, perhaps you could respond to it?

AsianGirlInTights on March 29, 2010 at 12:15 PM

Well, that argument won’t fly. They have had an open field.

And they abused that.

That is why gubmint nearly always has to step in and pinch private business.

They will always go too far without some kind of check.

So will gubmint. *haha

They both require watching.

AnninCA on March 29, 2010 at 12:03 PM

Look, you have no idea what you’re talking about. Health insurance was heavily regulated before the damn guvmint took it over. No one has probably seen a free market for health insurance because the damn guvmint virtually runs it anyway.

You always bitch about “evil” insurance yet I’ve never had any problems, neither has my wife … and I don’t know anyone who has.

darwin on March 29, 2010 at 12:15 PM

AsianGirlInTights on March 29, 2010 at 12:15 PM

God bless you for your earnestness, but you do realize you are replying to an insincere, angry ideologue?

No good can come of it.

daesleeper on March 29, 2010 at 12:17 PM

Try unplugging your ears and opening your eyes.

Dark-Star on March 29, 2010 at 12:12 PM

Try using your brain.

AsianGirlInTights on March 29, 2010 at 12:17 PM

They why are you comparing the rolling back of an entitlement to the creation of a new entitlement that is likely to be 10 times the size?

I don’t.

AnninCA on March 29, 2010 at 12:17 PM

AnninCA on March 29, 2010 at 12:03 PM

Ann, you seem to have cast yourself in your version of the ‘voice of quiet reason’ or perhaps the role of discussion initiator or the presenter of both sides of the issue or gentle provocateur????? I don’t mean this unkindly, just pointing it out—you have failed in case you are not aware. Stopping might make sense?

jeanie on March 29, 2010 at 12:20 PM

I’m all for wealth redistribution as long as I’m redistributing my wealth voluntarily, you are redistributing your wealth voluntarily, and the government is imposing upon us for some reasonable amount of our wealth to perform functions that only it can perform: nationl defense and some other governmental functions.

BuckeyeSam on March 29, 2010 at 12:11 PM

I think a lot of people are very ready to give up being the leader in the world in this arena. We’re super-proud of our troops.

However, the cost is very high, and we’re now in trouble.

When do we get to take care of ourselves?

Seriously.

AnninCA on March 29, 2010 at 12:20 PM

Ann, as usual your opinions are nothing but a hazy collection of useless generalities. Why don’t you get specific about what parts of each you like?

AsianGirlInTights on March 29, 2010 at 11:47 AM

Here’s the question, Ann. How about an answer?

ladyingray on March 29, 2010 at 12:21 PM

Dark-Star, you never responded to my last post. Busy applying for a job with the Co-op Alliance?

kingsjester on March 29, 2010 at 12:21 PM

Dark star crashes
pouring its light
into ashes

Reason tatters
the forces tear loose
from the axis

Searchlight casting
for faults in the
clouds of delusion

shall we go,
you and I
While we can?
Through
the transitive nightfall
of diamonds

Mirror shatters
in formless reflections
of matter

Glass hand dissolving
to ice petal flowers
revolving

Lady in velvet
recedes
in the nights of goodbye

Shall we go,
you and I
While we can?
Through
the transitive nightfall
of diamonds

spinning a set the stars through which the tattered tales of axis roll about the waxen wind of never set to motion in the unbecoming round about the reason hardly matters nor the wise through which the stars were set in spin

duuuuude!

daesleeper on March 29, 2010 at 12:24 PM

From one of my favorite presidents, Grover Cleveland:

“When more of the people’s sustenance is exacted through the form of taxation than is necessary to meet the just obligations of government, such exaction becomes ruthless extortion and a violation of the fundamental principles of a free government.”

“Though the people support the government, the government should not support the people”

NNtrancer on March 29, 2010 at 12:24 PM

When do we get to take care of ourselves?

Seriously.

AnninCA on March 29, 2010 at 12:20 PM

What? I think you mean when can we use that money for more handouts … right?

darwin on March 29, 2010 at 12:26 PM

When do we get to take care of ourselves?

Seriously.

AnninCA on March 29, 2010 at 12:20 PM

C’mon Ann even you can see taking the fight to them is better than them taking the fight to us.

jbh45 on March 29, 2010 at 12:27 PM

When do we get to take care of ourselves?

Seriously.

AnninCA on March 29, 2010 at 12:20 PM

Maintaining our security is taking care of ourselves.

AsianGirlInTights on March 29, 2010 at 12:28 PM

“Though the people support the government, the government should not support the people”

NNtrancer on March 29, 2010 at 12:24 PM

Bingo

I’ve always wondered why no one immigrates to Cuba, since they have dynamite health care.

darwin on March 29, 2010 at 12:28 PM

Maintaining our security is taking care of ourselves.

AsianGirlInTights on March 29, 2010 at 12:28 PM

That’s too difficult for Ann to wrap her little brain around…

ladyingray on March 29, 2010 at 12:29 PM

You always bitch about “evil” insurance yet I’ve never had any problems, neither has my wife … and I don’t know anyone who has.

darwin on March 29, 2010 at 12:15 PM

And that is the bottom line. As I’ve told many people when they start talking about the evil insurance companies: then don’t use their services. Pay for everything out of pocket.

It’s just that simple of a concept.

But that’s when they change the argument to health care being a “right”. Which is rubbish.

It is impossible (morally) to make something produced a right. It will inevitably lead to the producers of that service or product being enslaved to live up to the standards set forth by those receiving their services or products.

ButterflyDragon on March 29, 2010 at 12:34 PM

That’s too difficult for Ann to wrap her little brain around…

ladyingray on March 29, 2010 at 12:29 PM

And AGIT executed a flawless strong+emphasis, while Ann can barely handle simple quotes.

She better watch out!

DarkCurrent on March 29, 2010 at 12:34 PM

I think a lot of people are very ready to give up being the leader in the world in this arena. We’re super-proud of our troops.

However, the cost is very high, and we’re now in trouble.

When do we get to take care of ourselves?

Seriously.

AnninCA on March 29, 2010 at 12:20 PM

The world is very much like the animal kingdom: there alphas and betas. We found out what being a beta does for the world in the 1930′s. If we sit back and let whoever has the most strength lead the world then we become their subjects until we find it time to stand up and fight back. I personally would rather live in an alpha nation than a beta nation but I’m funny that way.

thomasaur on March 29, 2010 at 12:36 PM

ajacksonian on March 29, 2010 at 11:48 AM

So true.

venividivici on March 29, 2010 at 12:38 PM

I’m all for wealth redistribution as long as I’m redistributing my wealth voluntarily, you are redistributing your wealth voluntarily, and the government is imposing upon us for some reasonable amount of our wealth to perform functions that only it can perform: nationl defense and some other governmental functions.

BuckeyeSam on March 29, 2010 at 12:11 PM

One major philosophical issue is that the Left has defined “functions only it [government] can perform” as just about everything under the sun.

It’s pure totalitarian thinking.

venividivici on March 29, 2010 at 12:39 PM

crr6 will no doubt say that redistribution of wealth is authorized under the commerce clause.

darwin on March 29, 2010 at 11:00 AM

No, its under the Good and Welfare clause dummy… ;-)

Ann NY on March 29, 2010 at 12:40 PM

Of course they’re telling it like it is – it’s the law of the land now and they know it’s an uphill battle to try and repeal it.

They can be completely honest. they got what they wanted.

catmman on March 29, 2010 at 12:40 PM

thomasaur on March 29, 2010 at 12:36 PM

But thomasaur, can’t we all just get along? I cry about the children every night and wonder who will pay for their weight management program, and who will pay for the poor who are overweight and suffer from diabetes, and who will pay for health care when it’s a right to have cell phones, nice cars and wide screens tv’s?

Who will pay for that? Oh the humanity!

darwin on March 29, 2010 at 12:42 PM

No, its under the Good and Welfare clause dummy… ;-)

Ann NY on March 29, 2010 at 12:40 PM

Damn … you’re right. Boy, she would have nailed me on that! Thanks!

darwin on March 29, 2010 at 12:43 PM

I think a lot of people are very ready to give up being the leader in the world in this arena. We’re super-proud of our troops.

However, the cost is very high, and we’re now in trouble.

When do we get to take care of ourselves?

Seriously.

AnninCA on March 29, 2010 at 12:20 PM

Believe it or not, at the heart of American Exceptionalism is the fact we are taking care of ourselves (and the rest of the world).
America is the leader of the free world. Whether we like it or not, that is the burden we carry.
Why do you think countries like Canada and Mexico don’t have to spend so much on their military? Because they’re super nice guys and no one would ever attack them? Or because they know if anything happens within their realm, they know the full might of the US military will back them up?

ButterflyDragon on March 29, 2010 at 12:45 PM

Dark-Star, where are you? I’m waiting for you to respond to me about the Co-op Alliance.

kingsjester on March 29, 2010 at 12:45 PM

We’ll be looking for anyone who can really thread that needle and be for us.
AnninCA on March 29, 2010 at 11:58 AM

What a hypocrite. You rail against the left and right for wanting government to be for them and then make a statement like this. A pox on your house.

chemman on March 29, 2010 at 12:46 PM

A lot of European nations have been able to spend so much of their gubmint dollars on socialism BECAUSE we Americans still have a presence there, since WW2. We paid for that presence, not those countries, which saved their sorry behinds during the cold war. If the European nations had to shoulder the burden of their full defense cost on top of their social spending, they would have already gone under. This is back to the old “guns versus butter” economic theory. A nation has to decide how to allocate their resources.

The left complains about us still in Iraq and Afghanistan since 2003 and 2001 respectively, completely ignoring how we are STILL in Europe since 1945 and Korea since 1950 whatever when that cease fire was signed.

karenhasfreedom on March 29, 2010 at 12:54 PM

Dark-Star, where are you? I’m waiting for you to respond to me about the Co-op Alliance.

kingsjester on March 29, 2010 at 12:45 PM

I hope you have warm clothes, plenty of coffee and sandwiches if you’re going to be waiting for Dork-Star.

DarkCurrent on March 29, 2010 at 12:57 PM

Dark-Star, you never responded to my last post. Busy applying for a job with the Co-op Alliance?

kingsjester on March 29, 2010 at 12:21 PM

No. More ASSuming…or are you really trying to be a joke, hence the name ‘kingsjester’?

I’m so very sorry for not replying to your oh-so-important post ASAP; you see I have a load of homework for my culinary classes.

Dark-Star on March 29, 2010 at 12:57 PM

I hope you have warm clothes, plenty of coffee and sandwiches if you’re going to be waiting for Dork-Star.

DarkCurrent on March 29, 2010 at 12:57 PM

And yet you sniff at the lefties for being condescending elitists. What arrogance.

Dark-Star on March 29, 2010 at 12:58 PM

And yet you sniff at the lefties for being condescending elitists. What arrogance.

Dark-Star on March 29, 2010 at 12:58 PM

I do?

Why don’t you make me a sandwich?

DarkCurrent on March 29, 2010 at 1:05 PM

I’m so very sorry for not replying to your oh-so-important post ASAP; you see I have a load of homework for my culinary classes.

Dark-Star on March 29, 2010 at 12:57 PM

And yet you had time to make two comments.

And yet you sniff at the lefties for being condescending elitists. What arrogance.

Dark-Star on March 29, 2010 at 12:58 PM

Why don’t you answer the question before you run off and play with your Easy-Bake Oven.

ladyingray on March 29, 2010 at 1:07 PM

No. More ASSuming…or are you really trying to be a joke, hence the name ‘kingsjester’?

I’m so very sorry for not replying to your oh-so-important post ASAP; you see I have a load of homework for my culinary classes.
Dark-Star on March 29, 2010 at 12:57 PM

Nice attempt at deflection, skippy. Now, let’s get back to the original discussion and talk about the fact that this plan will lead to the demise of private health insurance. By the way, how many ways can you prepare Spam>

kingsjester on March 29, 2010 at 1:10 PM

I do?

Why don’t you make me a sandwich?

DarkCurrent on March 29, 2010 at 1:05 PM

1. Technology hasn’t advanced to the point where I can reach though your screen.

2. I wouldn’t ‘make’ you so much as a bowl of Ramen unless you had a gun pointed at my head.

And yet you had time to make two comments.

Strawman. Some of us can do two things at the same time, just not simultaneously.

Why don’t you answer the question before you run off and play with your Easy-Bake Oven.

ladyingray on March 29, 2010 at 1:07 PM

Which question? And why don’t you quit acting like a bunch of snotheads who are ‘better’ just because you think you’re ‘right’? Does liberals and conservatives all have a freaking Napoleon complex?

Dark-Star on March 29, 2010 at 1:12 PM

Nice attempt at deflection, skippy.

About like deflecting a spitwad with a kevlar vest.

Now, let’s get back to the original discussion and talk about the fact that this plan will lead to the demise of private health insurance

Let’s do.

What shall we discuss for the umpteenth time – how unconstitutional/unethical/illegal Obamacare is, ‘going Galt’ plans, revolutionary fantasies, hopes of SCOTUS overturning it?

Dark-Star on March 29, 2010 at 1:15 PM

1. Technology hasn’t advanced to the point where I can reach though your screen

I didn’t ask for it to be delivered.

2. I wouldn’t ‘make’ you so much as a bowl of Ramen unless you had a gun pointed at my head.

I understand. I imagine a bowl of ramen would require hours of diligent study. What do you know about ramen after all?

DarkCurrent on March 29, 2010 at 1:19 PM

Which question? And why don’t you quit acting like a bunch of snotheads who are ‘better’ just because you think you’re ‘right’? Does liberals and conservatives all have a freaking Napoleon complex?

Dark-Star on March 29, 2010 at 1:12 PM

Who calls people ‘snotheads’? A five-year old?

ladyingray on March 29, 2010 at 1:19 PM

Who calls people ’snotheads’? A five-year old?

ladyingray on March 29, 2010 at 1:19 PM

Who tells people to “run off and play with your Easy-Bake Oven.” ?

Dark-Star on March 29, 2010 at 1:23 PM

Who tells people to “run off and play with your Easy-Bake Oven.” ?

Dark-Star on March 29, 2010 at 1:23 PM

An adult dismissing a bratty child.

ladyingray on March 29, 2010 at 1:27 PM

An condescending adult dismissing a bratty child someone who doesn’t agree with her.

ladyingray on March 29, 2010 at 1:27 PM

Ftfy.

Now ladies and gentlemen, let us ignore ‘lady’ingray, and return to the debate.

Dark-Star on March 29, 2010 at 1:29 PM

Who tells people to “run off and play with your Easy-Bake Oven.” ?

Dark-Star on March 29, 2010 at 1:23 PM

People talking to five-year-olds.

DarkCurrent on March 29, 2010 at 1:30 PM

Now ladies and gentlemen, let us ignore ‘lady’ingray, and return to the debate.

Dark-Star on March 29, 2010 at 1:29 PM

Fine. Please respond to Kingjester. Thank you.

Exactly what part of that is so hard for you lot to understand?

Dark-Star on March 29, 2010 at 11:40 AM
Oh, I don’t know, Skippy. Possibly due to the fact that
once the no pre-existing conditions clause takes effect, along with the employer mandates, and this little provision:

A CO‐OP initiative would be established to foster the creation of non‐profit, member‐run health insurance companies in all 50 states and District of Columbia to offer qualified health plans.
A grant or loan would not be awarded unless the following conditions are met to be a qualified health insurance issuer: an organization must not be an existing health insurer or sponsored by a state or local government, substantially all of its activities must consist of the issuance of qualified health benefit plans in each state in which it is licensed, governance of the organization must be subject to a majority vote of its members, must operate with a strong consumer focus, and any profits must be used to lower premiums, improve benefits, or improve the quality of health care delivered to its members. Any profits made would be used to lower premiums, improve benefits, or to otherwise improve the quality of health care delivered to its members.
The cooperative would coordinate with the implementation of state insurance reforms required by this bill.
$6 billion would be appropriated to finance the program and award loans and grants to establish CO‐OPs by 7/1/2013.
(cont.), you will have single-payer. These co-ops will be run by the same people who bought $10,000 toilet seats. No insurance professionals will be allowed on these co-ops.

kingsjester on March 29, 2010 at 11:49 AM

ladyingray on March 29, 2010 at 1:32 PM

Dark-Star on March 29, 2010 at 1:15 PM

You can keep your fantasies to yourself. Please. Let’s discuss the reality of this obamanation. For example,

HHS Secretary is required to “establish procedures under which a State may allow” (but is not required to permit) “agents and brokers to enroll individuals” in Exchange plans;

HHS would be required to establish an advisory board to assist with helping to clarify the requirements for the state exchanges. The Advisory Board must include “individuals and entities with experience in facilitating enrollment in qualified health plans.”

So they’re replacing the professionals with bureaucrats. Your turn. Time for you to respond to facts with another snark.

kingsjester on March 29, 2010 at 1:33 PM

You can keep your fantasies to yourself. Please

So can you. You want a sandwich, shift your rump roast out of the chair and make one.

So they’re replacing the professionals with bureaucrats.

kingsjester on March 29, 2010 at 1:33 PM

Or professional bureaucrats. =p But whichever…

So am I to understand that you don’t think there will be any real period where the insurance companies are allowed to enjoy their mandate? I would think their government cronies would at least let them have some fun…

Dark-Star on March 29, 2010 at 1:38 PM

A guy with a gun comes out of an alley, jabs the muzzle of the .38 into the face of a passerby, and growls:

Let’s redistribute some wealth!

(Sounds so much more Ivy League than “Stick’ em up and gimme yer money!“)

profitsbeard on March 29, 2010 at 1:40 PM

The redistribution of wealth is a continuous ubiquitous process. It happens when one person surrenders money or some other economic good in exchange for another economic good. In other words, wealth distribution is what most people call commerce.

What the left wants is a form of redistribution in which you and I surrender money in exchange for nothing, more commonly known as THEFT.

The lefties are doing what they always do, attempt to pay off a segment of the population in exchange for votes, and they are trying to do it with OUR money.

In what way does this not qualify as racketeering? Why hasn’t RICO been used against them yet?

leereyno on March 29, 2010 at 1:42 PM

Dark-Star on March 29, 2010 at 1:38 PM

The only lag time will be in the formation of these 50, or, if you count like Obama, 57 state co-ops. Timing depends on how far the court cases go and whether it is ruled that every state must participate. You better believe that HHS is lining up polical hacks in every state to run the co-ops as a pay-off to their patronage. The revenue of the insurance companies in the meantime will not be that great, especially for the independent agents in the field. Americans, both employers and employees, are both going to be hesitant to buy insurance. Why should they invest in buying a product from private companies when they are about to be able to get it from the government?

kingsjester on March 29, 2010 at 1:45 PM

So can you. You want a sandwich, shift your rump roast out of the chair and make one.

Dark-Star on March 29, 2010 at 1:38 PM

Dark-Star, you’ve become confused, destabilized, unglued.

If you’re not careful you could get a hold of yourself and suddenly collapse to a rapidly spinning singularity.

*LOL

DarkCurrent on March 29, 2010 at 1:46 PM

Why hasn’t RICO been used against them yet?

leereyno on March 29, 2010 at 1:42 PM

One of the problems would be who would have the power to investigate the Fed.

Dark-Star on March 29, 2010 at 1:47 PM

kingsjester on March 29, 2010 at 1:45 PM

Interesting. So basically – unless the government totally fails on its promise to deliver ‘free’ healthcare’, most people will just wait out this interim period.

Dark-Star on March 29, 2010 at 1:49 PM

Dark-Star on March 29, 2010 at 1:49 PM

Basically, beacuse they either don’t have the money or choose not to invest. By the way, the first part of the Titanic’s voyage was a lovely trip.

kingsjester on March 29, 2010 at 1:51 PM

Well, that argument won’t fly. They have had an open field.

And they abused that.

That is why gubmint nearly always has to step in and pinch private business.

AnninCA on March 29, 2010 at 12:03 PM

It seems you, like others, completely misplaced where the abuse occured. For several years, there was an active campaign to demonize the industry. An industry wholly designed for risk management. This campaign has been successful in redefining the industry (even before the recent legislation) into what it was never intended to be.

Subsequently, it took in costs that were beyond its mission. To buffer said costs, it naturally passed them on to its consumers. That is a necessity for any business to remain operational. This happened while maintaining a measly 3-4% industry profit margin. It stands up to any and all economic scrutiny that a 3.5% average profit margin is not an exercise in abuse.

Government has a monopoly on legislation. History tells us the temptation for abuse of this is vast. History also tells us the primary procedure for gaining support for said abuse is by demonizing your target. They managed to demonize an industry with an average 3.5% profit margin and all I can ask is:

“How profoundly illiterate of economics does one have to be to fall for such absurdity?”

anuts on March 29, 2010 at 2:16 PM

“How profoundly illiterate of economics does one have to be to fall for such absurdity?”

anuts on March 29, 2010 at 2:16 PM

Are you trying to convince Ann that 1 + 1 = 2?

Give it up.

DarkCurrent on March 29, 2010 at 2:26 PM

1. Reduce health care costs.

2. Reduce health care insurance costs.

Calorie counts on menus, nanny boards, expanded public unions, 1099-S transactios, IRS expansion, student loans, tax credits and taxes, 2,000 more pages of rules regulations, boards and bizarreness…

What people want are two simple things.

MarkT on March 29, 2010 at 3:23 PM

We’re super-proud of our troops.

However, the cost is very high, and we’re now in trouble.

When do we get to take care of ourselves?

Seriously.

AnninCA on March 29, 2010 at 12:20 PM

Are you for real? Without the troops, then we would likely be either speaking German, Japanese, Chinese or under Sharia law by now. Those troops are all that stand between us those outside this country who would destroy us. I know you are troll, but come on, you are starting to sound as bad as some of the others like Dark-Star, crr6, Proud Rino, and the rest…

Wolftech on March 29, 2010 at 3:43 PM

you see I have a load of homework for my culinary classes.

Dark-Star on March 29, 2010 at 12:57 PM

You take classes to run the fry machine at McDonald’s?

Wolftech on March 29, 2010 at 3:46 PM

These clowns deny deny and deny some more and obfuscate and side-step, and then when they get their way they’re like, “Well, hell yeah Obama and the rest of us are Commies, numbnuts! Duh.”

Rather like some guy telling you, “Hell yeah I slept with your wife, and know what, I’m going to sleep with her again! What are you going to do about it, wimp?”

USA=cuckold nation

Dr. ZhivBlago on March 29, 2010 at 4:04 PM

I only make 28 K a year. If the government wants to redistribute wealth, instead of giving me more money can I just have Becky Quick?

radjah shelduck on March 29, 2010 at 4:18 PM

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