Oh, by the way, O-Care lets states opt out of the individual mandate
posted at 5:52 pm on March 24, 2010 by Allahpundit
Alternate headline: “Confirmed: No one read the bill.”
Speaking to the Huffington Post on Tuesday, Wyden discussed — for one of the first times in public — legislative language he authored which “allows a state to go out and do its own bill, including having no individual mandate.”
It’s called the “Empowering States to be Innovative” amendment. And it would, quite literally, give states the right to set up their own health care system — with or without an individual mandate or, for that matter, with or without a public option — provided that, as Wyden puts it, “they can meet the coverage requirements of the bill.”
“Why don’t you use the waiver provision to let you go set up your own plan?” the senator asked those who threaten health-care-related lawsuits. “Why would you just say you are going to sue everybody, when this bill gives you the authority and the legal counsel is on record as saying you can do it without an individual mandate?”
I went looking on Google to find out how Ed and I could have missed this, and it turns out we didn’t. Everyone missed it. There were precisely two pages of results for “Empowering States to be Innovative” when I searched earlier this afternoon; one of the most comprehensive treatments of the subject, posted six months ago, was this piece, which devoted a paragraph to it. Good work, media. So which “coverage requirements” would a state have to meet to qualify for an O-Care waiver? Here’s the relevant section from the Senate bill; skip ahead to page 212.
(A) will provide coverage that is at least as comprehensive as the coverage defined in section 1302(b) and offered through Exchanges established under this title as certified by Office of the Actuary of the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services based on sufficient data from the State and from comparable States about their experience with programs created by this Act and the provisions of this Act that would be waived;
(B) will provide coverage and cost sharing protections against excessive out-of-pocket spending that are at least as affordable as the provisions of this title would provide;
(C) will provide coverage to at least a comparable number of its residents as the provisions of this title would provide; and
(D) will not increase the Federal deficit.
By “comprehensive” coverage, they mean the types of benefits that the federal law guarantees in section 1302(b). See page 103 for the full list. Whether it’s economically feasible to even temporarily sustain a health-care program as bloated as O-Care without a mandate is above my pay grade — wonks are invited to sound off in the comments — but do note that the benchmark here isn’t universal coverage. In 10 years under O-Care, 24 million people will still be uninsured, so a state presumably would only have to do better than that proportionately. As for the requirement that a state substitute would have to lower the deficit like (giggle) O-Care does, do states also get to game the hell out of their numbers the way the White House did to arrive at its own “deficit-reducing” CBO figures? There’s already good reason to believe that deficits will rise by half a trillion dollars under our new entitlement leviathan. Seems unfair to ask states to do better than that.
The goal of this provision, I assume, isn’t to encourage genuine state innovation but simply to score a political point by making ObamaCare seem impressive by comparison. It may well be that states can’t sustainably achieve all of O-Care’s goals (although neither can O-Care), but then that’s the whole debate — what should the goals of health-care reform be as we approach an entitlements crisis? Once you lay down statist rules, you’ve already won the game.










Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
Comment pages: « Previous 1 2
ROFLMAO!
Chip on March 24, 2010 at 7:08 PM
There is, however, a special exemption if the teeth belong to your dead sister, and or any other relative related by blood or marriage.
kringeesmom on March 24, 2010 at 7:09 PM
But I don’t see anything that eliminates the requirement for a mandate. In fact it looks like the following implies states need to have a mandate:
How would a state cover a comparable number of people without having an individual mandate like the federal government?
WarEagle01 on March 24, 2010 at 7:09 PM
The problem is in the nature of Taxes.
Taxes are NOT a fee you pay for a service, they are there to support the Government, and the Constitution is clear, as I posted above, that Federal Taxes shall be uniform throughout the United States.
So, even if you live in a State where the Feds do NOT spend money on a certain thing, that they do spend money on in another State, you all still must all pay the same Taxes… as they are not tied to a service.
Romeo13 on March 24, 2010 at 7:10 PM
I thought the president promised to go through the
billprop line by line?kringeesmom on March 24, 2010 at 7:11 PM
Looks like it’s time to dust off my “Amish Do It All Harvest Long” t-shirt.
Chuck Schick on March 24, 2010 at 7:18 PM
ajacksonian on March 24, 2010 at 6:45 PM
Bottom line, the Federalists – including esp. Hamilton who wrote the majority of submissions to the Federalist Papers – were the one arguing for the adoption of the Constitution, which was, in relative terms, a statist enterprise compared to the pragmatic alternative that the Anti-Federalists were effectively supporting. I agree with you that the AFs had many thoughtful and telling arguments, and much of what the Federalists were claiming was that the state they were installing included safeguards against despotism.
It is ironic in more ways that one, however, that the very word “Federalist” has been turned by the self-styled radical constitutionalists into the opposite of what it once meant. You can hear the contradiction whenever someone like Fred Thompson invokes “Federalism” as a synonym for “states’ rights.” There’s a problem in terminology when “Federalist” = “Anti-federal government.” One reason is clearly that saying you’re for “states’ rights” associates you with a segregationists, white supremacists, and their forebears.
Such contradictions, ironies, and inversions are what make history so much fun. They become relevant when simplistic distortions lead people to adopt untenable and self-destructive but strong-sounding extremisms, then wonder why the whole country doesn’t line up before the self-evident truth of their borrowed brilliance.
CK MacLeod on March 24, 2010 at 7:19 PM
This does not matter. The Federal Government can not force the states to start programs. They can not force mandates on states or penalize individuals for not being active in commerce.
LeeSeneca on March 24, 2010 at 7:21 PM
I didn’t understnad one word of that or the explanation. Can the states opt for their own or not?
jeanie on March 24, 2010 at 7:21 PM
It doesn’t seem like it should.
Its just another bogus ‘giving you a choice’..without the “choice” part.
A state can opt out as long as you do what they want you to do and comply with their standards, which may not be an option with a private policy.
Itchee Dryback on March 24, 2010 at 7:22 PM
And I have a splitting headache since I am hearing that Obama is going to take up amnesty in the spring. Beck says it is to get new Dem voters but I wondered if it could be passed quickly enough even if. And…if it’s so, I don’t think I can stand it.
jeanie on March 24, 2010 at 7:24 PM
Have to mention this again. Doesn’t it give anyone else the “WTF?????” reflex to see government being more complicated and abstruse, and requiring more interpretation and analysis, than a frigging James Joyce novel?
When you have to regulate yourself coming because of how much you regulated yourself going — well, anyone sane would know you’re regulating yourself too much.
“You know government’s too big when ____________.”
J.E. Dyer on March 24, 2010 at 7:24 PM
Thats because Federalist is a distinct Point on the Anarchy to Tyranny spectrum… not a direction on that same spectrum (ie right or left).
Romeo13 on March 24, 2010 at 7:27 PM
Nancy was right about one thing, that’s for sure..we did have to pass it to find out what’s in it. Heard an interesting rumour today but cannot vouch for the truth of it. Says that a petition is circulating here in NH to get rid of Paul Hodes and Carol Shea-Porter. I’d like to sign it, if it really exists.
jeanie on March 24, 2010 at 7:29 PM
The difference is that regardless of what “Federalist” used to stand for in historically technical terms, it stands for sovereignty of the rights of states and individuals over the club of the federal governments social engineering experiments while “Progressive”, regardless of what the origins were in history, stands for centralized government power over the rights of states or individuals….one side is lying about what they stand for and whos interests they represent.
Itchee Dryback on March 24, 2010 at 7:35 PM
This provision is actually quite simple when you consider the source. What they were trying to allow for is a state that would try to implement a single payer system.
Do not forget, the totalitarians that wrote this bill want a massive single payer system to trample on the throats of the American people!
Freddy on March 24, 2010 at 7:36 PM
I would say that the Federalists had a very defined balance between State and Fed power… which was more Fed Power than the Anti Federalists wanted…
But, much LESS Fed power than what we have today… thus when we talk about taking Federalist positions, we want the State/Fed power balance THEY espoused…
Thus, it LOOKS like “we” have changed the direction of more/less Gov when we speak of the Federalist position… but thats only because of what direction we look at it from…
Its a relative thing…
Romeo13 on March 24, 2010 at 7:43 PM
Many of the A-Fs, if not all, would be aghast at how under-represented we are in the House. In their era the expectation of local representation that was populous, not populist but representative of local concerns, should be replicated at the National level so as to give the people the greatest say in the affairs of the Nation. We never did get to 1:30K which is the largest size House allowed by the Constitution. In some ways that criticism was dead on: the Federalists had little interest in actual representative democracy that was populous. Today if we did that it would wipe out much of what we know as the federal government because there are companies that can handle far more middle managers than we would get with a mere 1:30k. Modern comms and computer systems allow networking and document sharing for compilation unlike any other period in history… it might take a four years of continuing resolutions to get fully integrated, but when it did all the problems of patronage we now see would be a thing of the past: too many sharks, too few fat bodies, too little power in the sharks to make them worth bribing.
The lack of State power was the recognition that the States were a vital intermediary between the people and the national government. These States, some becoming as large as Nations, felt that they were nearly at that point and yet wanted a secure system to lift the shared burden of protecting themselves so that no single State would be impoverished (which was the problem that got us the Constitution). Its hard to imagine a Constitution passing in just two years to full enactment, even with 13 States, and yet that is exactly what happened. A number of A-Fs felt that the Constitution was better than the Confederacy, but that it was fatally flawed and everyone would be going through this exact, same process in a few more years… which may be where Jefferson got his idea of a Revolution every decade.
Hamilton was no friend of representative democracy, and I find it ironic that the Federalist that can be so quickly cited by Leftists is Hamilton… mind you a number of the right love to quote him, too, not understanding his background coming into and then leaving the Convention. While the Federalists pressed process, the A-Fs were pointing out the problems of previous republics, human nature and the natural shift of power into fewer and less accountable hands over time. At that their insights into what drives human society has stood the test of time far better than the proceduralist Federalist viewpoint (although that lasted far longer than expected). Now the breakdowns we see are along the lines examined by the A-Fs and papered over with procedure by the Federalists. It seems that a conversation should have been going on between them, but one side had an upper hand… and process does win out in the short run. It always makes it look like you are doing something. That may not be the right thing, however.
ajacksonian on March 24, 2010 at 7:50 PM
No state will be able to manage this for long if tried.
Could this be more weasely???:
It’s guaranteed any interpretation would be in favor of the feds and more coverage.
WitchDoctor on March 24, 2010 at 8:00 PM
Actually, no. “Federalist” only means “strong central government” in comparison with the preferences of the historical “Anti-Federalist” faction in the proto-US under the Articles of Confederation.
Devolution of power to different levels of government is the generic definition of “federalism” as understood in the history and tradition of US law and political thought. It’s a quintessentially American political concept because its purpose, as we have conceived it, is to maintain a tension between the different levels of government that checks the centralization of power, de facto or de jure, at any one of them.
The despiser of strong central government can approve “federalism” because it distributes power. The one who fears anarchy can approve “federalism” because it’s a means of achieving a level of unity. “Federalism” was intended not to rebuke or triumph over either of these advocates, but to place their urges in an eternal tension.
I note also that I don’t automatically associate the phrase “states’ rights” with the antebellum South and slavery. A whole lot of Americans have grown up thinking of states’ rights as merely the check of federalism on an overweening central government, and of slavery as the national issue that federalism ultimately couldn’t handle. They don’t conclude from that history that every issue that comes along requires adjustment from Washington.
Don’t worry, I think the Union was on the side of moral right concerning slavery in the Civil War. I say that because you seem to so often leap immediately to modern-lefist assumptions about where people are coming from in their political arguments. It isn’t actually a fringe position, clung to only by buck-toothed Bubbas with Confed’rate flags in they gay-rages, that the 10th amendment really does mean what it says, and that it was intended to.
J.E. Dyer on March 24, 2010 at 8:03 PM
That doesn’t mean that states can’t try their widdle hearts out — and accidentally fail to enact 99% of the statute.
That testbed — and the resulting lawsuits about whether the program was “substantially compliant” — would take another several years.
Monkey wrenches, people. Think: monkey wrenches.
logis on March 24, 2010 at 8:06 PM
Indeed – and it’s also a “relative thing” when you compare the needs of an assemblage of 13 pre-industrial colonies with a total population around the size of modern day Houston, as compared to the needs of a continent-spanning neo-empire that maintains a standing army (anathema to many of the Founders) whose total compliment – active and reserve – is roughly equivalent to that same population.
The Federalist position is for balance, not extremes, just as the Constitution is a balancing and pragmatic framework. Beyond that, there are limits to how much what “worked for them” (to the extent it did) can tell us about what would work for us. None of this is a defense of Obamacare, but maybe it helps explain why the abstract and ideological attack on Obama and the ‘crats may only take us so far, and not far enough.
CK MacLeod on March 24, 2010 at 8:07 PM
Apparently federal money was fed into MA to make RomneyCare look solvent and (mis)use it as an example of success to push ObaMaoScare.
onlineanalyst on March 24, 2010 at 8:12 PM
I was livid yesterday when I had received an email forward from a Lefty acquaintance trumpeting the passage of O-care. The thrust of the email was that now there is a group in PA pushing for single-payer.
This same fool was sending me emails about the importance of raising the minimum wage when the Pelosi crew passed that bill several years ago.
Math and economics are not strengths in this fellow’s quiver.
onlineanalyst on March 24, 2010 at 8:16 PM
It is reading the differences between the A-Fs and Federalist analysis that proves interesting from their era. Federal Farmer supported not only a Federalist system but a robust one of checks and balances that were very strong outside the national government, not just within it. The reasoning, in modern terms, is to create a dynamically stable system that rests upon no single source for wisdom, and while it draws its power from the people, that power of the Punsher is distributed so that it may be kept in multiple checks not only by the people but amongst the competing larger scale entities (States and national government).
It was that lack of dynamic stability, and capability to adjust to support the States in paying off the war debt that brought about the multiple uprisings in the North with the Shaysites being the most well known. By being unable to distribute that burden, the war debt to France was leading to impoverishment of poor farmers in the North and a slow re-assembling of veterans who were not getting their due pay for participating in the war. The Baltimore Convention of 1786 felt that coming on and it made the Philadelphia Convention of 1787 a near mandatory meeting for anyone important as things were getting to a head. The worry of the A-Fs was that in trying to move wholesale changes through rapidly, that the ability to get a stable system would be difficult.
Popular representation was one of the key points the A-Fs felt was being short-changed, and that there was no way that a decent voice of a diverse Nation could be heard through so few representatives. Further criticisms of what would happen with one House allying with the President were also brought up and how that could change the election dynamics in the other House which would erode the system. That came to pass in the Public Law that allowed the HR to fix its size at a set number in 1911. After that there was no set proportional representation and the entire system changed from then onwards, but that could only happen with the assent of the Senate. By letting representation dwindle, the House started to become more like the Senate in longevity of terms due to re-elections from safe seats. Before 1900 it was difficult to get 20% of the House re-elected, after 1910 it was difficult to get more than 20% thrown out.
The nature of the change is due to the views taken up by those serving as it moved away from a citizen’s job to that of becoming a permanent politician. Yet that is what was seen back in the day by the A-Fs… that there would be a calcification of the House due to its ability to set its own size, and that power would accumulate there as the voice of the people became weaker and diffuse. One person can barely represent 100,000 people. Yet now we expect them to represent five times that…and the diversity of voices in the House has diminished to ‘liberal’ and ‘conservative’ and now to just ‘Big Government’ wanting to rule, not govern.
That, too, we were warned about. Makes chilling reading to see what the Anti-Federalists had to say about how power accumulates and why… and its not tied down to America but to the nature of man.
ajacksonian on March 24, 2010 at 8:28 PM
Heck yeh, if they can print money!!
PaCadle on March 24, 2010 at 8:33 PM
Perhaps. And if everyone thought like you, we wouldn’t have had all these problems over all these years, either.
CK MacLeod on March 24, 2010 at 9:09 PM
–Good point, but I don’t think it applies. There’s a difference between equal protection and equal rights. The Equal Protection clause generally applies when a state tries to restrict or eliminate rights based on race or sex. That’s not the case here (I don’t think), because, in part, people in each state would be treated the same (except for religious reasons).
Jimbo3 on March 24, 2010 at 9:24 PM
–Depends on the specific powers you’re talking about.
Jimbo3 on March 24, 2010 at 9:25 PM
-That’s different than Medicare. That’s under the The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act, which was part of COBRA. There are also some similar state laws and, for non-profit hospitals exempt from federal tax, 501(c)(3) of the Tax Code requires some free or charitable services to continue to qualify for the exemption.
Jimbo3 on March 24, 2010 at 9:40 PM
–You guys didn’t read about the 10000 or 12000 new IRS agents on Drudge?
Jimbo3 on March 24, 2010 at 9:42 PM
Try the power of government – I believe that’s sort of the whole point of the founding documents.
Why would the founding fathers have had the constitution contain certain clauses and wordings that could be perverted into a government with unlimited power?
Why can’t you answer that question?
Chip on March 24, 2010 at 10:23 PM
Frankly it’s awesome what wondrous achievements can be wrought by the Fourth Estate, with their layers of editors and fact-checkers.
Jaibones on March 24, 2010 at 10:30 PM
If they inserted that as a means of thinking it will be constitutional, I think that they will find that they were sadly mistaken.
I am not a lawyer, but I can read legal stuff and at least understand some of it…and I suspect that in all of their attempts at trying to get around legal precedent they really think that they have created something that will do the job.
The goons are crowing about how they held a conference and the participants deemed their “bill” constitutional. Well, unless SCOTUS was present, and it is the justices in SCOTUS who will review the cases that are placed before it, whatever these people at the conference said is utterly worthless.
When FDR tried certain tricks the SCOTUS at the time rebuffed him on a few pieces of legislation and then they backed off in regard to the labour laws. However, they did strike down the Agriculture Adjustment Act when they took United States vs Butler.
So far, it seems that the best argument is going to be the commerce clause. This is because the O Administration is trying to mandate private individuals to take up health insurance. I do not believe that your Federal government under your constitution has the right to mandate individuals to take up health insurance. It is unprecedented. What is more, I think that they have disregarded opinion in the Butler case when they wrote this Abominable bill.
I have seen some try to argue that the fact that prosthetic appliances are made from parts built in other states means that there is cover for interstate commerce. Well, I think that such an argument is wrong. My reasoning is that the basis of the bill is to mandate people to either have insurance or be fined. Things like the manufacture of prosthetic appliances is actually irrelevant as far as the mandate is concerned.
This should be a clear cut case of the federal government infringing the rights of the states. I would hope that your SCOTUS will see it that way and strike down the bill.
maggieo on March 25, 2010 at 6:18 AM
mrt721 on March 25, 2010 at 8:06 AM
I’d much rather be part of a barn raising than a tax raising.
Scott P on March 25, 2010 at 9:44 AM
Bueller? Hello? Are you out there?
Chip on March 25, 2010 at 10:17 AM
Chip on March 25, 2010 at 10:17 AM
Chip on March 25, 2010 at 12:22 PM
Isn’t this simply a way for Maine and Mass. to keep their ‘taxpayer funded health coverage for all AND bust!’ systems? The clarion call of ‘save our Romneycare’ looms. Paging Scott “Bueller” Brown.
FeFe on March 25, 2010 at 4:05 PM
How does this thiss effect the lawsuits being brought by state’s AGs, since their main basis is the un-Constitutionality of the Individual Mandate? Does the “Empowering States to be Innovative” amendment render the basis of the lawsuits to be null and void, since their states could opt out?
pseudonominus on March 24, 2010 at 6:21 PM
The “opt-out” section is written in double speak. Looking at what is required the States cannot opt out all that easily. Have another look.
And no, it does not change the litigation because the individual mandate remains unconstitutional.
maggieo on March 25, 2010 at 4:54 PM
Comment pages: « Previous 1 2