Krauthammer: Get ready for the VAT debate
posted at 1:36 pm on March 24, 2010 by Ed Morrissey
Charles Krauthammer warns viewers of Bill O’Reilly that the passage of ObamaCare will lead to the value-added tax, or VAT. The Europeans have it, in part to fund the national nanny states, and the US will need it to create the “river of revenue” that ObamaCare will require. Meanwhile, Krauthammer — a physician himself — also warns that the Obama administration doesn’t need a public option, as the insurance companies will become arms of the government, just like public utilities (via Greg Hengler):
We’ve seen the VAT debate during the ObamaCare push, starting with Nancy Pelosi’s proposal in October. At that time, Dan Mitchell of the Cato Institute gave a primer on VAT:
The VAT would be great news for the political insiders and belteway elite. A brand new source of revenue would mean more money for them to spend and a new set of loopholes to swap for campaign cash and lobbying fees. But as I explain in this new video from the Center for Freedom and Prosperity, the evidence from Europe unambiguously suggests that a VAT will dramatically increase the burden of government. That’s good for Washington, but bad for America.
It’s worth noting that even if the politicians are unsuccessful in their campaign to take over the health care system, there will be a VAT fight at some point in the next few years. This will be a Armageddon moment for proponents of limited government. Defeating a VAT is not a sufficient condition for controlling the size of government, but it surely is a necessary condition.
That didn’t keep the New York Times from pushing a VAT in December. Krauthammer’s right; as soon as the predicted budget surpluses turn into huge deficits, Democrats will try to stem the tide not by undoing ObamaCare but by imposing onerous consumption taxes on Americans. That will slow the economy, which will make the ObamaCare deficits even worse, and will continue a cycle of stagnation.
Be prepared. Start learning about the VAT now in order to stop it later.
Blowback
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Your Goverment, working for themselves.
upinak on March 24, 2010 at 1:40 PM
J_Crater on March 24, 2010 at 1:40 PM
This is the nightmare that just keeps on giving-isn’t it.
I’ll be 40 in October-wake me up then…if America still exists.
annoyinglittletwerp on March 24, 2010 at 1:40 PM
He’s right – but not until 2013 – after the next presidential election.
humdinger on March 24, 2010 at 1:41 PM
Prescription: Tax and spend and tax and spend…
Talk to ordinary Europeans, as I have, rather than the elite and you’ll get a different idea than the liberals paint of the general feelings of powerlessness and futility that so many Europeans share about their current conditions and their future.
Utopia here we come.
Drained Brain on March 24, 2010 at 1:41 PM
Oh please add WORD CLOUD to the blog.
humdinger on March 24, 2010 at 1:43 PM
Taxation death-spirals can be readily self-correcting, if there are still (small d) democratic elections available.
IOW, REPEAL AND REPLACE.
Bat Chain Puller on March 24, 2010 at 1:43 PM
Hey, who wouldn’t like everything to cost at 15-20% more than it does now?
Mr. D on March 24, 2010 at 1:43 PM
VAT = Christmas Day right?
SDarchitect on March 24, 2010 at 1:44 PM
Not to worry, D.C. is ‘considering’ allowing residents to grow their own pot, strictly for medicinal use only of course.
Skandia Recluse on March 24, 2010 at 1:45 PM
I picture Leslie Nielsen in “Airplane”, doing medical exams in flight. Would those have been claassified as “duty-free”?
AubieJon on March 24, 2010 at 1:45 PM
Another tax…Mmm Mmm Mmm!
So picture people already pissed off about Obamacare, add Shamnesty, 5 to 10 dollar per gallon gas if/when Iran and Israel go at it, then add this VAT tax…Will the Dems really allow there to be elections in November? Can they?
Battlecruiser-operational on March 24, 2010 at 1:45 PM
For the uninitiated, VAT = sales tax. It’s already 9.75% here in LA.
Apologetic California on March 24, 2010 at 1:46 PM
Isn’t it wonderful . . . by 2014 we should be as rich and powerful as Cuba.
rplat on March 24, 2010 at 1:46 PM
I love having CK on our side.
Keeping the insurance companies as a public utility is, unfortunately, a great strategy. The arms length relationship allows the Dems to beat them up, shift the blame, when things go awry…and they will.
WashJeff on March 24, 2010 at 1:47 PM
Except the cars are going to rust in the upper midwest. ;-)
WashJeff on March 24, 2010 at 1:47 PM
Hah! What was that promise about taxes, Barfy?
You lie.
Cody1991 on March 24, 2010 at 1:48 PM
A VAT isn’t a bad idea if it REPLACES the income tax.
This won’t replace it.
This will be added ON TOP of the income tax.
Bend over, America. No matter what Obama told you in the campaign (nearly all of which has been proven a demonstrable lie over the last year), you are going to pay more FOR EVERYTHING.
Because, er, the poor and less well-to-do matter or something.
Good Lt on March 24, 2010 at 1:48 PM
That gives me an awesomely awesome idea. If the left agrees to shutting down the dept of energy and education, we will tear down those buildings and they can grow pot there instead. Deal?
WashJeff on March 24, 2010 at 1:49 PM
Let the Dems propose a VAT. They’ll be lucky to maintain 50 seats in the House after floating that trial balloon. Even the poor will turn on them.
Doughboy on March 24, 2010 at 1:50 PM
This is bad, bad, bad. That money is OUR money. If they pass this, we will ALL be wards of the state. We will have no choice. Enjoy what you have now because you won’t have any money for future purchases. Learn to garden and grow your own food. We’ll all be in survival mode.
conservative pilgrim on March 24, 2010 at 1:51 PM
It is enshrined in the Constitution…
WashJeff on March 24, 2010 at 1:51 PM
Last year, my girlfriend and I took a trip to Ireland. Fantastic trip, stayed seven days and nights, and three of those were in beautiful castles. At one of those stays at one of the castles, we got to talking to a couple from Dublin. We found ourselves talking about the coming election, and also taxes, which they explained how taxed that their country is. People need to keep this in mind, a VAT will be in addition to all the other taxes we currently pay, not in place of.
The rate in Ireland is 21%. So, just add 21% to everything that you buy. Oh….I’m sure it would never get that high, here. The average for all European countries looks like it’s about 17%. This would be the second biggest disaster, right behind the just passed HC legislation.
Patriot Vet on March 24, 2010 at 1:52 PM
I expect a VAT to be on the table before the end of the year. It will be put forward by the deficit reduction committee.
chemman on March 24, 2010 at 1:52 PM
Except the one that is being talked about here in the US will not appear on your sales slip like a sales tax does. It will be hidden in the manufacturing and distribution stream. In effect it will be collected by the government directly from the maker of the goods and passed on to you in higher prices, with nothing on your final sales slip.
Johnnyreb on March 24, 2010 at 1:52 PM
“Hey dude, whaddya mean my Ipod costs more now? A what? A vat? A vat of what? This is freakin’ bullshiite maaaan…seriously like way uncool.”
Bishop on March 24, 2010 at 1:52 PM
It’s classic fascism.
The republicans need to implement a fighting retreat until November, use every trick to delay delay delay this progressive steamroller.
Rebar on March 24, 2010 at 1:53 PM
We have to stay on them. We didn’t gain our freedom from colonial status overnight. Our country didn’t win WWII or overcome Jim Crow or win the Cold War overnight. We have to keep at this. Stay angry. Keep calling and marching. It will take all our resolve. I am so angry right now, but I know in my heart that we can win this.
bitsy on March 24, 2010 at 1:53 PM
Agreed.
nazo311 on March 24, 2010 at 1:54 PM
Got news for ya.
It’s too late. ObamaCare officially made every man women and child (except for children with preconditions, natch) wards of the state.
You WILL be assimilated into The Borg.
Good Lt on March 24, 2010 at 1:54 PM
I can’t stockpile fast enough.
txhsmom on March 24, 2010 at 1:54 PM
I have been announcing to all my students (prom is approaching) the 10% tanning tax effective today.
My female students who are tanning for prom actually anticipated this (bcs I or their parents told them it was coming) & so they actually went & purchased their tanning packages before this.
I have been starting each day of school in class with little tidbits of info concerning the new health care bill.
They are up in arms over it.
Badger40 on March 24, 2010 at 1:54 PM
Wait till they find out what a quart of Colt 45 costs.
Cody1991 on March 24, 2010 at 1:54 PM
I’m already 90% there. I’ve been expecting this for years.
chemman on March 24, 2010 at 1:54 PM
VAT. What’s to learn? Goods are taxed at every stage of the production process and those costs are ultimately borne by the consumer. Along with adding a greater tax bureaucracy, VATs encourage invoice fraud, non-taxable barter agreements and a growth in black market goods.
It’s a terrible idea.
ROCnPhilly on March 24, 2010 at 1:55 PM
When we were stationed in Germany, we were reimbursed for the VAT tax. If we made a large purchase from the host country, we’d bring in our receipt and fill out a form. We didn’t make too many large purchases–a couple of German bikes. But the VAT refund was A LOT and worth the legwork and paperwork.
People have no idea what the VAT means. If you think your taxes are high now, this takes it to another level. Like Marion Jones on steroids. Bad.
conservative pilgrim on March 24, 2010 at 1:55 PM
That is exactly how I feel.
In fact, I had been feeling like a cast member in one of those zombie movies.
They cannot be dealt with fast enough & soon you are overrun by the madness.
Badger40 on March 24, 2010 at 1:56 PM
God Bless Steve King. I wore out quitye a bit of shoe leather going door to door in Council Bluffs IA campaigning for him.
OmahaConservative on March 24, 2010 at 1:56 PM
VAT? Woo Hoo!!!
More government jobs, baby!! Who’s going to administer this sheite?
Cody1991 on March 24, 2010 at 1:56 PM
Because of what we do, it is very hard for us to be self-reliant. We move so much (military fam). I’d really like some practical ideas if you have any. Do you have a blog or someplace you can post suggestions for people like me?
conservative pilgrim on March 24, 2010 at 1:56 PM
No chance in hell that will happen. He doesn’t have the votes in the Senate now, and will definitely not after November.
When faced with massive deficits due to ObamaCare after both premiums has increased and care has declined (inevitable), do you think the American Public will be in a mood to either:
A. Massive tax increase to pay for it.
B. Scrap it
Norwegian on March 24, 2010 at 1:57 PM
Exactly my earlier point! As Mark Steyn and others argue, it’s the point at which we are transformed from citizens to subjects, or more accurately wards of the state.
Drained Brain on March 24, 2010 at 1:57 PM
Ya don’t say?
What have the trolls to say on this one?
Badger40 on March 24, 2010 at 1:57 PM
I think I hate the voters who wanted to teach the GOP a lesson as much as I hate the 53% who voted for this insanity.
ladyingray on March 24, 2010 at 1:57 PM
Conservatives must start predicting this. And they need to tie it to the failure of Obamacare that they’ve predicted.
The Dems got their victory lap, and the GOP had to suffer its day of not standing with the “winners,” but now its back to the reality. Get Paul Ryan and all the believable GOP politicians out their railing about this: Coburn, the other doctors, Kyl, and the other ones. Muffle McCain and Graham because they don’t know d*ck about these issues and they only suck up oxygen. Start showing Dems for the frauds that they are.
Two-thirds of the country ain’t going to go for a VAT on top of an income tax.
BuckeyeSam on March 24, 2010 at 1:57 PM
Just like corporate taxes are a stealth tax on the individual. The VAT tax will be another stealth tax on the individual. They both make what we purchase cost more.
chemman on March 24, 2010 at 1:58 PM
It looks to me like things will get ugly. The dems have declared war on the economy, and when things turn to utter $hit when the gravy train runs dry, who will feed the livestock on the government vote farm?
saiga on March 24, 2010 at 1:58 PM
CRIPE!
makes no sense, revenues have dropped due to job loss, this feels like trying to get blood out of a turnip…
cmsinaz on March 24, 2010 at 1:58 PM
Property value just went way up in Costa Rica.
saiga on March 24, 2010 at 1:59 PM
Bwahaha!
Soon we will all be going down to the rez to get us a pint, quart, gallon, what have you.
Either that, or bath tub gin is really going to make a comeback.
Badger40 on March 24, 2010 at 1:59 PM
OT….did anyone catch nObamas civilian security forces in training? Just watch the flash mobs at work in Philadelphia mmm…mmm…mmm!
dmann on March 24, 2010 at 1:59 PM
We would not be having to deal with this mess is Repubs had dealt with the health care issue when they were in the majority. We could have had a responisble GOP plan. Now let’s learn from our mistakes and do a preemptive strike – when we take over in November pass legislation to forever BAN THE VAT.
AusTex girl on March 24, 2010 at 1:59 PM
Dude, that’s just the cost of having the America Dick Durbin and a bunch of other crooked Chicago pols deem right for you.
The VAT I’d like to see in DC right now is a vat of boiling oil, into which we can dump all these chumps.
venividivici on March 24, 2010 at 2:00 PM
For the uninitiated, VAT = sales tax. It’s already 9.75% here in LA.
Apologetic California on March 24, 2010 at 1:46 PM
In Chicago it’s 10.25% and in suburban CROOK county where I am it’s 9.0%
Yea us.
//sarc
annoyinglittletwerp on March 24, 2010 at 2:00 PM
FIFY
Badger40 on March 24, 2010 at 2:00 PM
Can you just imagine all these fine citizens when they are forced to buy ObowmaCare insurance and the VAT increases the price of every thing by about 300%…?
Good Times! Good Times!
Seven Percent Solution on March 24, 2010 at 2:00 PM
And that’s why Los Angeles consists mostly of poor blacks and illegal aliens with a smattering of poor elderly. NO ONE BUYS ANYTHING IN THAT CITY UNLESS THEY HAVE TO. Therefore, the unemployment rate is very high. I’d say 75% of the LA workforce commutes and lives outside of Los Angeles. Those who can, I’m talking middle class, live where the cost of goods is cheaper or buy where the cost of goods are cheaper. I know that I’ll buy on the internet or shop in Ventura County before I step foot in Los Angeles. Imagine Detroit on steroids. That’s LA.
Andy in Agoura Hills on March 24, 2010 at 2:00 PM
We are so AnninCAing AnninCAed…
max1 on March 24, 2010 at 2:00 PM
I distinctly remember being told by Obama that my taxes would not go up one thin dime! Now I know he meant it will go up with pennies, nickles, quarters and dollar bills.
fbcmusicman on March 24, 2010 at 2:01 PM
My e-mail is chemman@usa.net. I would be willing to share what I have done and am in the process of doing to try to get ready for this.
chemman on March 24, 2010 at 2:01 PM
That’s why Obama set up this phony “bipartisan” commission.
Plausible denial ability.
BrianA on March 24, 2010 at 2:02 PM
Very
Awful
Terrible
Good Lt, I have to disagree…the VAT is a terrible idea to begin with. It allows stealth taxing to a degree that eventually cripples the economy.
Dark-Star on March 24, 2010 at 2:02 PM
+1
Beat me to it…
OmahaConservative on March 24, 2010 at 2:03 PM
For those of you who have no ground to garden in, some cities & towns have plots you can rent.
Heck, many rural residents let city & town people have a small plot that they can garden.
Badger40 on March 24, 2010 at 2:03 PM
OT: the msm is drooling over this alleged severing of a rep’s gas line by a tea party activist….
watch…3 mths later, we’ll find out that it was caused by the person crying foul over it…
cmsinaz on March 24, 2010 at 2:03 PM
England recently lowered theirs to 15%. That is a national sales tax on top of everything now….yippee!
d1carter on March 24, 2010 at 2:04 PM
Done, I even learned how to do home canning after 0 was elected.
OmahaConservative on March 24, 2010 at 2:05 PM
We have to do it because we don’t have the public option and to pay for Bush’s War!!!
/trolltard
cntrlfrk on March 24, 2010 at 2:05 PM
Lucky you. The rez closest to me (Navajo Nation) doesn’t allowed alcohol to be sold.
chemman on March 24, 2010 at 2:05 PM
I always wanted to make moonshine, and I suppose I can get used to wearing moccasins and other deerhide products.
One big advantage of buckskin is that they are almost impervious to mites and lice, a big plus in the coming world where soap will become as valuable as gold.
Bishop on March 24, 2010 at 2:06 PM
Time to learn your new Anthem….
Or figure out how you opt out of the Great Leap Forward.
james23 on March 24, 2010 at 2:06 PM
Depending on your political status, some are rulers, some are wards, the rest are slaves. We’ll need those border fences the dems have been so loathe to erect to keep the slaves from fleeing the country.
ROCnPhilly on March 24, 2010 at 2:06 PM
Well, since Marx the Left HAS had an animus toward the “division of labor”, so it wouldn’t surprise me that the effect of their policies is to march us backward in time to pre-division of labor days. Accompanied by rhetoric of “progress”, of course.
venividivici on March 24, 2010 at 2:06 PM
We’re all going Galt whether we want to or not….
d1carter on March 24, 2010 at 2:06 PM
Well, as long as AnninCA gets what’s coming to her in entitlements, I suppose it’s OK.
/
OmahaConservative on March 24, 2010 at 2:07 PM
That’s tough to pull off, since gas lines are underground, aren’t they? And you need a special tool to turn the thing off, which is all you can do without blowing yourself up.
But I digress…
Wait until market inflation begins on top of the taxes in place, to be added like VAT, and increased or otherwise adjusted. Along with no pay raises at even cost-of-living.
Liam on March 24, 2010 at 2:07 PM
You can’t make people do things. They have to figure it out for themselves.. including survival mode.
I wonder if that will be the next “word” for tagging.
upinak on March 24, 2010 at 2:08 PM
I think they’ll figure out a way to tax “teh interwebs” first.
reaganaut on March 24, 2010 at 2:08 PM
Me too. Absolutely.
Oink on March 24, 2010 at 2:08 PM
One more way these brain-dead elitists inside the beltway want to turn the US into Euro-trash.
belad on March 24, 2010 at 2:09 PM
We were reimbursed our VAT, too, when we left. But if you live there, you don’t get it back. People truly have no idea how bad of an idea this would be. If they honestly believe that congress is going to give up one source of revenue, they are f-ing high! It is just like entitlements, once they get their hands on something, they don’t let go. And it also goes against the reason in the first place, THEY NEED MORE MONEY, NOT LESS!
Patriot Vet on March 24, 2010 at 2:09 PM
to get rid of lice and creepy crawlies. Pee in a can, save it so it ferments and pour it on your hair and body. It is a old remedy someone told me about. Gross, but if it works…
upinak on March 24, 2010 at 2:09 PM
Just sent you an email.
conservative pilgrim on March 24, 2010 at 2:09 PM
I should add I don’t drink but my wife and I make medicinal herb tinctures and 180 proof vodka is a good solvent for preparing them.
chemman on March 24, 2010 at 2:09 PM
MUST gain at least the House back in November. If our populace is not aware of these thugs, yet, then it deserves them.
Schadenfreude on March 24, 2010 at 2:09 PM
No VAT tax on the “poor” (they will have a VAT free card), none on abortion, none on anything that congress purchases…the middle class will get stuck with the burden, as usual.
right2bright on March 24, 2010 at 2:10 PM
I keep hearing
inflation, VAT, no pay raises…oh my!
cmsinaz on March 24, 2010 at 2:10 PM
Fascism writ large.
MB4 on March 24, 2010 at 2:10 PM
Okay, I check it out and we can begin the dialog.
chemman on March 24, 2010 at 2:10 PM
You better hope that they don’t decide that the GOP needs a refresher this year.
belad on March 24, 2010 at 2:11 PM
True.
I beg to differ!
jgapinoy on March 24, 2010 at 2:11 PM
no doubt….
cmsinaz on March 24, 2010 at 2:11 PM
I’ll be making bath tub gin because there is no way I’m going to get caught up in a riot going the the 7/11 to get some beer.
You know where I’m going with this, right? Once this hits all levels blame will be placed everywhere but where it belongs.
That’s probably fine with this administration. They have noted their fondness for crises, so why not create more?
Cody1991 on March 24, 2010 at 2:12 PM
Got a recipe?
OmahaConservative on March 24, 2010 at 2:13 PM
The merger of state and government is called fascism.
MB4 on March 24, 2010 at 2:13 PM
Believe me, I do!
ladyingray on March 24, 2010 at 2:13 PM
you got mail.
upinak on March 24, 2010 at 2:13 PM
Someone should take a look at what happened to all retail sales in Cook County after a 10.25% sales tax was implemented. Chicago has its own issues with prohibitive fees, fines and additional taxes. Sales dropped at least 9.7% – 14%, depending on who is going the math. This started to occur before the recession and sales continue to drop as the economy fails to rebound. It appears that the big drop started when taxes reached the 10%+ mark. Just watch these Illinois idiots start to tax all internet sales. If they can figure out a way to tax air, they will slap it with federal, state, county and city taxes. Never underestimate the depravity of an Illinois politician. If a VAT is implemented, I’ll bet you any amount of money that not one other tax will be repealed. Most people refer to this as a “shake down” and it used to be illegal but that was when there was a real Department of Justice.
MayorDaley on March 24, 2010 at 2:13 PM
The percent of money that residents of Socialist countries get to keep in their pockets is very low. Here is a list of the tax rates in Europe.
conservative pilgrim on March 24, 2010 at 2:13 PM
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