Video: “Hell, no, you can’t!”

posted at 9:30 am on March 22, 2010 by Ed Morrissey

“In this economy, with this unemployment, with our desperate need for jobs and economic growth, is this really the time to raise taxes, to create bureaucracies, and burden every job creator in our land?” So began the final effort by House Minority Leader John Boehner to turn the tide on ObamaCare, mainly by answering a series of difficult questions. Boehner really caught fire in the middle of the speech when he asked Democrats if they had even bothered to read the bill or any of its sidebars or amendments, ending with a “Hell no, you haven’t!” Not surprisingly, this was one of the most popular moments for Hot Air commenters on the live thread. Most of it, however, was somber and sad, as Boehner said, “Shame on us, shame on this body, shame on each and every one of you who substitutes your will and your desires above those of your fellow countrymen.” Full speech is below:

“Mr. Speaker and my colleagues, I rise tonight with a sad and heavy heart. Today, we should be standing together, reflecting on a year of bipartisanship, and working to answer our country’s call and their challenge to address the rising costs of health insurance in our country. Today, this body, this institution, enshrined in the first article of the Constitution by our Founding Fathers as a sign of the importance they placed on this House, should be looking with pride on this legislation and our work.

“But it is not so. No, today we’re standing here looking at a health care bill that no one in this body believes is satisfactory. Today we stand here amidst the wreckage of what was once the respect and honor that this House was held in by our fellow citizens.

“And we all know why it is so. We have failed to listen to America. And we have failed to reflect the will of our constituents. And when we fail to reflect that will – we fail ourselves and we fail our country.

“Look at this bill. Ask yourself: do you really believe that if you like the health plan that you have, that you can keep it? No, you can’t. In this economy, with this unemployment, with our desperate need for jobs and economic growth, is this really the time to raise taxes, to create bureaucracies, and burden every job creator in our land? The answer is no. Can you go home and tell your senior citizens that these cuts in Medicare will not limit their access to doctors or further weaken the program instead of strengthening it? No, you cannot. Can you go home and tell your constituents with confidence that this bill respects the sanctity of all human life, and that it won’t allow for taxpayer funding of abortion for the first time in 30 years? No, you cannot.

“And look at how this bill was written. Can you say it was done openly, with transparency and accountability? Without backroom deals, and struck behind closed doors, hidden from the people? Hell no, you can’t! Have you read the bill? Have you read the reconciliation bill? Have you read the manager’s amendment? Hell no, you haven’t!

“Mr. Speaker, in a few minutes, we will cast some of the most consequential votes that any of us will ever cast in this chamber. The decision we make will affect every man, woman and child in this nation for generations to come. If we’re going to vote to defy the will of the American people, then we ought to have the courage to stand before them and announce our votes, one at a time. I sent a letter to the Speaker this week asking that the ‘call of the roll’ be ordered for this vote. Madame Speaker, I ask you. Will you, in the interest of this institution, grant my request? Will you, Mr. Speaker, grant my request that we have a call of the roll? Mr. Speaker, will you grant my request that we have a call of the roll?

“My colleagues, this is the People’s House. When we came here, we each swore an oath to uphold and abide by the Constitution as representatives of the people. But the process here is broken. The institution is broken.

“And as a result, this bill is not what the American people need, nor what our constituents want. Americans are out there are making sacrifices and struggling to build a better future for their kids. And over the last year as the damn-the-torpedoes outline of this legislation became more clear, millions lifted their voices, and many for the first time, asking us to slow down, not try to cram through more than the system could handle. Not to spend money that we didn’t have. In this time of recession, they wanted us to focus on jobs, not more spending, not more government, certainly not more taxes.

“But what they see today frightens them. They’re frightened because they don’t know what comes next. They’re disgusted, because they see one political party closing out the other from what should be a national solution. And they are angry. They are angry that no matter how they engage in this debate, this body moves forward against their will.

“Shame on us. Shame on this body. Shame on each and every one of you who substitutes your will and your desires above those of your fellow countrymen.

“Around this chamber, looking upon us are the lawgivers – from Moses, to Gaius, to Blackstone, to Thomas Jefferson. By our actions today, we disgrace their values. We break the ties of history in this chamber. We break our trust with Americans.

“When I handed the Speaker the gavel in 2007, I said: “this is the people’s House – and the moment a majority forgets this, it starts writing itself a ticket to minority status. If we pass this bill, there will be no turning back. It will be the last straw for the American people. And In a democracy, you can only ignore the will of the people for so long and get away with it. And if we defy the will of our fellow citizens and pass this bill, we are going to be held to account by those who have placed us in their trust. We will have shattered those bonds of trust.

“I beg you. I beg each and every one of you on both sides of the aisle: Do not further strike at the heart of this country and this institution with arrogance, for surely you will not strike with impunity. I ask each of you to vow never to let this happen again – this process, this defiance of our citizens. It is not too late to begin to restore the bonds of trust with our Nation and return comity to this institution.

“And so, join me. Join me in voting against this bill, so that we may come together anew, and address this challenge of health care in a manner that brings credit to this body, and brings credit to the ideals of this nation, and most importantly, it reflects the will our people.”


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sandee on March 22, 2010 at 10:31 AM

I feel sorry for those 45,000 people who die each year who don’t have insurance…

ladyingray on March 22, 2010 at 10:32 AM

This is an insurance company killer.

In the long-term, of course. In the short-term, it’ll be great for them.

Dark-Star on March 22, 2010 at 10:33 AM

AnninCA on March 22, 2010 at 10:24 AM

Please explain how this helps insurance companies.
ladyingray on March 22, 2010 at 10:26 AM

The moonbats all hoped Obama was going to be another Stalin, and put all the property owners in Gulags.

They’re a little bit disillusioned to see that Obama is making more Devil’s bargains with big business owners than Hitler and Musselini combined ever dreamed of.

The good news (and the bad news) is that even the dumbest moonbats will eventually figure out that Communism and Socialism always turn out the same in the end.

logis on March 22, 2010 at 10:33 AM

In the long-term, of course. In the short-term, it’ll be great for them.

Dark-Star on March 22, 2010 at 10:33 AM

The short-term won’t do any good if there is no long-term.

ladyingray on March 22, 2010 at 10:34 AM

+1. My father’s company is already in damage-control mode.

Well, he’ll get the bonus, too. *haha

(Don’t spend it all too fast. This may be the last year for that bonanza for awhile.)

AnninCA on March 22, 2010 at 10:35 AM

sorta O/T: I wasn’t sure where to post this, but this thread’s as good as any. It’s an e-mail I sent to my folks today, thought someone out there may get a chuckle (or a tear) out of it.

Good morning Komrades!

What a glorious day for us to pay homage to our Dear Leader (Long may He reign!).

Only a man of such resolve could actively disregard the will of over 70% of his subjects without thought of reprisal.

(will is such a STRONG word though, more like “respectful inclinations towards a different opinion, not that there’s anything wrong with Dear Leader’s opinions, of course”)

And what sacrifices he made! Knowing that it is likely that over 140 of his most trusted minion….er, Congressmen will likely be lost this November as a result.

But, such is the will of The Chosen One. (In His case of course, “will” is not quite strong enough. I think FORCE is mroe accurate. And like the Star Wars movies, the FORCE is with us all.)

Anyway, I have exceeded my alloted time spent not praising our Dear Leader, what with the time I spent hooking up our belovedly manditory camera systems with direct feeds to the White Presidential Palace, and all that time purging photos of the demonic Ronald Reg…oops, almost forgot, the evil one’s name is not to be mentioned. You’d think the regular electrical shocks I receive every time I let his name slip would deter me from mentioning the evil one’s name.

I must be a slow learner.

Good day, Komrades!

Bless our Dear Leader for life (ours or His, whichever comes first)

DrAllecon on March 22, 2010 at 10:35 AM

Hello to Fuel prices at 4 to 5 dollars a gallon..

wheels on March 22, 2010 at 10:36 AM

To be honest, I seem to track Ann’s comments better than most here.

I hardly agree with most of them, but she does hold something of an independent view.

Now, to work on getting this monstrosity destroyed.

Scott H on March 22, 2010 at 10:36 AM

This is an insurance company killer.
In the long-term, of course. In the short-term, it’ll be great for them.

Dark-Star on March 22, 2010 at 10:33 AM

LOL, oh my goodness.

Midas on March 22, 2010 at 10:36 AM

At about the 4.00 minute mark: “Both sides would do well to remember the dignity of the House.”
Irony. Redefined forever.

jackmac on March 22, 2010 at 10:36 AM

The moonbats all hoped Obama was going to be another Stalin, and put all the property owners in Gulags.

They’re a little bit disillusioned to see that Obama is making more Devil’s bargains with big business owners than Hitler and Musselini combined ever dreamed of.

The good news (and the bad news) is that even the dumbest moonbats will eventually figure out that Communism and Socialism always turn out the same in the end.

logis on March 22, 2010 at 10:33 AM

I agree. The most naive are the “progressive” bloggers, with the exception of Firedoglake. Jane Hamsher actually does have a handle on this. She’s the only one, though.

AnninCA on March 22, 2010 at 10:36 AM

“I see people are bringing up anecdotal evidence, so let me just say everyone I’ve talked to is ecstatic.”

Where do you hang around – the National Democratic HQ? That won’t be such a happy place on the morning of Nov. 3.

Vera71 on March 22, 2010 at 10:36 AM

Three words: Individual insurance mandate.

“Buy insurance OR ELSE” will become the law of the land.

Dark-Star on March 22, 2010 at 10:29 AM
You’re as dumb as your friend, Ann. This is an insurance company killer.

Benefits the insurance companies? I’m a 2nd year agent. The insurance companies will be gone within 5 years and there will be single payer. The Insurance Companies were a scapegoat for the takeover of 1/6th of America’s economy. You are entirely clueless.

kingsjester on March 22, 2010 at 10:27 AM
ladyingray on March 22, 2010 at 10:30 AM

–So why did Aetna put out a press release in December congratulating the Senate on passing the health care bill?

Jimbo3 on March 22, 2010 at 10:37 AM

This is an insurance company killer.
In the long-term, of course. In the short-term, it’ll be great for them.

Dark-Star on March 22, 2010 at 10:33 AM

In the short-term I can enjoy a wonderful breeze. In the long-term, I’d rather my parachute had opened instead.

DrAllecon on March 22, 2010 at 10:37 AM

I hardly agree with most of them, but she does hold something of an independent view.

Scott H on March 22, 2010 at 10:36 AM

Sucker…

ladyingray on March 22, 2010 at 10:38 AM

–So why did Aetna put out a press release in December congratulating the Senate on passing the health care bill?

Jimbo3 on March 22, 2010 at 10:37 AM

Trying to feed the hungry lion, hoping to be dinner instead of lunch.

kingsjester on March 22, 2010 at 10:38 AM

I see people are bringing up anecdotal evidence, so let me just say everyone I’ve talked to is ecstatic.

crr6 on March 22, 2010 at 10:06 AM

Not surprising that the Communist Party engages in groupthink.

fossten on March 22, 2010 at 10:39 AM

In the short-term I can enjoy a wonderful breeze. In the long-term, I’d rather my parachute had opened instead.

DrAllecon on March 22, 2010 at 10:37 AM

I’m stealin’ this…

ladyingray on March 22, 2010 at 10:39 AM

In the short-term I can enjoy a wonderful breeze. In the long-term, I’d rather my parachute had opened instead.

DrAllecon on March 22, 2010 at 10:37 AM

An apt analogy.

As Jimbo3 pointed out, there were companies that only saw the immediate benefits of the public being forced to buy their product, and refused to see that Judas Congressiate would eventually sell them out as well. And of course, the rest of us get hosed in the meantime.

Dark-Star on March 22, 2010 at 10:40 AM

I want Republicans to become some cold-hearted Democrat-destroying bastards.

Midas on March 22, 2010 at 10:30 AM

There is no room or reason to be civil in DC under this regime. The Dems just stole 1/6th of the economy without any pretense of bipartisanship. America is at war with Pelosi, Reid, and the filthy lying dictator in the White House.

highhopes on March 22, 2010 at 10:40 AM

‘Comity’?

I don’t want any more comity in the House. I want Republicans to become some cold-hearted Democrat-destroying bastards.

Midas on March 22, 2010 at 10:30 AM

Hear Hear Midas. War has been declared by those worthless f*&ks and they will lose.

yobobbyb on March 22, 2010 at 10:40 AM

It will be undone. When it goes bankrupt in 10 years.

MarkTheGreat on March 22, 2010 at 10:24 AM

Yep, except this is never going to make it anywhere near 10 yrs. I give it 9m-1y.

The healthcare bill is self-repealing.

The domestic terrorists could lie all they want about paying for it before it became law, but now that it is actually law there is the small matter of having to come up with the funds.

There is no money to pay for this, no one to lend it to us, and nowhere else to go to find it. The entire mess will self-repeal when it collapses from its own sodden weight. Sadly, the morons who believed that rich people crapped money and could pay for all of this will go down with it; that means you. Good luck, stranger.

Bishop on March 22, 2010 at 10:28 AM

Yep, this whole damn hot sticky mess is about to become self repealing when it goes bankrupt. Sadly, though, it’s not just the morons. We are all going to be hurting for a while. The wheels are coming off now. Events will move fast from here.

I’m optimistic, though. Obama’s Cloward-Piven machinations will backfire; in the chaos, this country will never go socialist. There are always unintended consequence to lefty’s grand schemes. The unintended consequence of Obama’s remaking of America will be the rebirth of our freedom and liberty.

bitsy on March 22, 2010 at 10:41 AM

Now, to work on getting this monstrosity destroyed.

Scott H on March 22, 2010 at 10:36 AM

Once the rhetoric calms down, if it calms down, then I think there really is a very logical path to follow.

But I’m guessing I’ll be whistling in the dark alone on this, as usual.

The issue is the competitive pools. If the GOP focuses reform on really opening up those to some serious competition, then….it’s a good step in the same direction that McCain was recommending, and I still think he really had the right idea.

Then, DON’T make the expansion a big issue. It just bogs the GOP into old them versus us dialogue.

Focus in on state problems in meeting the Medicaid mandates. Focus in on the numerous states which will, I predict, roll back their own more generous benefits and simply offer nothing but the Federal funds. How can they do otherwise?

And then, after awhile, praise the reform for eliminating the worst abuses of the insurance industry, which I will always assert ushered in this debacle with their ridiculous retro-practices of taking premiums and then denying coverage, etc. DON’T object to that benefit. That is what all people wanted to see reformed.

Finally, reverse the tables and become the party that pushes for prescription drug global competition.

That’ll frost em’. :)

AnninCA on March 22, 2010 at 10:41 AM

The point about the insurance companies is that they have now instituted a colossal game of chicken with the federal Leviathan.

Short-term, they can make a great deal of money at taxpayer expense by this bill, and this is exactly what Leviathan (in its guise as Mephistopheles) offered them.

Long-term, they are absolutely finished, and everyone knows it. It is theoretically possible that there is a company or two incompetent enough to not have realized this, but that doesn’t matter.

Leviathan has made it possible for insurance companies to make a great deal of money only to kill them.

To make an analogy, Leviathan induced the golden geese of the insurance companies to eat each other to lay bigger eggs. To paraphrase Thatcher, “The problem with ObamaCare is that you eventually run out of golden geese.”

The most astute of the insurance companies will quit, with excellent compensation for their upper management, right before they die. And this is the chicken nature of their ploy.

Scott H on March 22, 2010 at 10:42 AM

In other words, let the Dems be the party that restricts lower prescription drugs.

:)

I have always enjoyed the irony of politics.

AnninCA on March 22, 2010 at 10:43 AM

Long-term, they are absolutely finished, and everyone knows it. It is theoretically possible that there is a company or two incompetent enough to not have realized this, but that doesn’t matter.

I don’t think so. I simply am more optimistic, though. I don’t think the Dems are ever going to realize the dream of single-payer insurance.

Not in several lifetimes.

AnninCA on March 22, 2010 at 10:44 AM

Boehner, Cantor, Ryan and the other Republicans did a good job fighting to the last minute. Ryan in particular was very impressive.
Of course, the outcome is terrible, but at least they showed some cahunas, something that has been lacking the last 5 years.

bhawknine on March 22, 2010 at 10:45 AM

I see people are bringing up anecdotal evidence, so let me just say everyone I’ve talked to is ecstatic.

crr6 on March 22, 2010 at 10:06 AM

Dude, you can kiss my anecdotal evidence. Do you want to talk to the 3 I will be terminating because of the elimination of Medicare Advantage?

barnone on March 22, 2010 at 10:46 AM

Benefits the insurance companies? I’m a 2nd year agent. The insurance companies will be gone within 5 years and there will be single payer. The Insurance Companies were a scapegoat for the takeover of 1/6th of America’s economy. You are entirely clueless.

kingsjester on March 22, 2010 at 10:27 AM

No, that won’t happen, because in 5 years we will have a Republican President and Congress. As soon as the insurance companies realize they are only going to get about 5 million new subscribers instead of 30 million, because everyone will pay the fine rather than the far more expensive insurance premiums, they will come running back to get all this regulation repealed. Otherwise, we are looking at another $700 billion government bailout of the insurance companies, just like the bank bailout of 2008.

rockmom on March 22, 2010 at 10:46 AM

No definitions were found for gamboled.

Suggestions:

– Make sure all words are spelled correctly.

Idiot…

OmahaConservative on March 22, 2010 at 10:17 AM

In my sojourn at Hot Air I have seen many conservatives, including myself, spell words incorrectly. Should we include the word “idiot” when commenting on something said by a commenter if we find a word spelled incorrectly?

Basil Fawlty on March 22, 2010 at 10:47 AM

I feel sorry for those 45,000 people who die each year who don’t have insurance…

ladyingray on March 22, 2010 at 10:32 AM

Please remember that having health insurance is not the same thing as having adequate healthcare. By their actions, Democrats have killed healthcare while providing universal mandatory coverage. It is akin to the way the Soviet Union had “full employment” even though everybody didn’t have a real job.

highhopes on March 22, 2010 at 10:47 AM

–So why did Aetna put out a press release in December congratulating the Senate on passing the health care bill?

Jimbo3 on March 22, 2010 at 10:37 AM

Probably because:

A) It forces people to buy their product (yeah capitalism /sarc).

B) It is a big fish and will be in a position to acquire the smalled insurance providers.

C) The board probably believes, as many businesses and people have felt in the past, that they will be able to control\buy the politicians.

WashJeff on March 22, 2010 at 10:47 AM

Though many of us have been working tirelessly to stop this monstrosity, and may feel weary of the effort, NOW is the time for the real effort, lest all before is wasted.

We have discovered the tactics to fight and need to refine them and go forward. The Dem’s have to be defeated and this Obomanation needs to be reversed.

I find myself ready to redouble my efforts and hope that many will doubtless feel the same way. Sounds like it here anyway.

Come November!

donh525 on March 22, 2010 at 10:48 AM

A long, long time ago…
I can still remember
How that that Cowboy used to make us smile.
But the GOP ignored ol’ Ron’s stance
And McCain never had a chance
And a “good man” took over for a while.

But the march voting made me shiver
With every new post Hamsher delivered.
Bad news on the doorstep;
I couldn’t take one more step.

I can’t remember if I cried
When I read about Stupak’s slide,
But something touched me deep inside
The day the country died…

Mr. Joe on March 22, 2010 at 10:48 AM

ladyingray: If I am, then I am. However, stay and judge for yourself.

Ann: You assume that the other side is rational. Leviathan has removed its mask at last. Remember, Leviathan is the most apt analogy for an incredibly self-absorbed government. It does not react to the ‘little people’… no more than an elephant reacts to fleas. Just flick them, and they’ll go away.

‘In a few months, everyone will have forgotten this.’

Sound familiar?

Leviathan will not survive this.

And you cannot talk ‘reform’ at all about this. If you talk about ‘reforming’ this, you at the same time legitimize this. This is not legitimate, and thus cannot be reformed. It must be uprooted, root and branch, and its author destroyed.

The American people can finally see their purpose, and remember…

Dragonslaying is still one of the chief myths remaining to our culture.

The resonance of this cannot be erased.

Scott H on March 22, 2010 at 10:49 AM

Should we include the word “idiot” when commenting on something said by a commenter if we find a word spelled incorrectly?

Basil Fawlty on March 22, 2010 at 10:47 AM

Oh God please no. I would have to have a dunce cap avatar with all my misspellings.

WashJeff on March 22, 2010 at 10:49 AM

In the short-term I can enjoy a wonderful breeze. In the long-term, I’d rather my parachute had opened instead.

DrAllecon on March 22, 2010 at 10:37 AM

+1

Midas on March 22, 2010 at 10:50 AM

Well, Boehner; forgive me for not applauding too long or too loudly over you finding your rhetorical gonads… maybe you will find your real ones near where you and the rest of the Party lost it’s spine and moral convictions as well.

Too little, too late doesn’t even begin to cover it.

paragon27x on March 22, 2010 at 10:51 AM

So why did Aetna put out a press release in December congratulating the Senate on passing the health care bill?

Jimbo3 on March 22, 2010 at 10:37 AM

Regulatory Capture.

Lehosh on March 22, 2010 at 10:51 AM

highhopes, ladyingray was being sarcastic

sandee on March 22, 2010 at 10:52 AM

I see people are bringing up anecdotal evidence, so let me just say everyone I’ve talked to is ecstatic.

crr6 on March 22, 2010 at 10:06 AM

You should get out of the house. You’re mom doesn’t count.

donh525 on March 22, 2010 at 10:53 AM

Scott H

I’ve watched Ann for a long time. She reels people in, men mostly, by spouting how “independent” she is.

She’s a lib to the core.

ladyingray on March 22, 2010 at 10:53 AM

AnninCA on March 22, 2010 at 10:43 AM

Why do you think that Leviathan will want to debate this on its merits?!? They didn’t debate the current abortion on its merits!

They’ll pull out sob story after sob story to fight this. They’ll argue that the Republicans want to ‘take away your healthcare that we gave you’, and not sweat the details about whether that’s what the Republicans actually want to do.

You, yourself, on this thread, mentioned that the Republicans need to stop objecting and give alternatives.

They have done so throughout this entire debate, and Leviathan blatantly lied about it. Why do you think they will do anything but that at this point?

Scott H on March 22, 2010 at 10:54 AM

Three words: Individual insurance mandate. “Buy insurance OR ELSE” will become the law of the land.
Dark-Star on March 22, 2010 at 10:29 AM

The 80% of Americans who are currently happy with their own health care are going to be pleased as punch about that.

And people still think “elections” are going to matter from now on?

Liberal Congressmen may be better dressed, and marginally more articulate, than the average moonbat troll. But most of them aren’t really a whole lot smarter.

Even in Washington, only a handful of liberals genuinely comprehend what Communism entails. Those few know perfectly well what is coming, and they are working day and night to prepare for it.

Go to any graduate school in America and you will see hundreds of Pelosis and Reids, and dozens of Obamas. They spout a lot of what sounds like the same gibberish, but deep down inside they are totally different animals.

The first are nothing but airheaded dilettantes, who think they can magically make Communism “work” this time around, just because they are genetically superior to everyone who ever tried it before.

But the Obamas of the world know better. They know that – after the “total transformation of America” – nothing will matter except who has power and who doesn’t. All they want is to slash and burn everything that’s in their way. They couldn’t possibly care less how high the rubble is piled, or how many bodies are buried under it – as long as they end up on top of the heap when it’s all said and done.

logis on March 22, 2010 at 10:54 AM

In the short-term I can enjoy a wonderful breeze. In the long-term, I’d rather my parachute had opened instead.

DrAllecon on March 22, 2010 at 10:37 AM
I’m stealin’ this…

ladyingray on March 22, 2010 at 10:39 AM

By all means, please do :)

DrAllecon on March 22, 2010 at 10:55 AM

sandee on March 22, 2010 at 10:31 AM

I feel sorry for those 45,000 people who die each year who don’t have insurance…

ladyingray on March 22, 2010 at 10:32 AM

That survey that is quoted over and over about 45,000 people who die annually has been so discredited as to be bizarre that anyone quotes it. Even the authors of the study were compelled to go back and attach caveats in regards to the claims they made. They also refuse to debate the study’s results. They did once and were embarrassed completed.

Jdripper on March 22, 2010 at 10:55 AM

Three words: Individual insurance mandate. “Buy insurance OR ELSE” will become the law of the land.
Dark-Star on March 22, 2010 at 10:29 AM

And our military will be forced to buy additional coverage. The Dems screw them again.

ladyingray on March 22, 2010 at 10:56 AM

sandee on March 22, 2010 at 10:52 AM

I thought you were leaving for greener pastures? Ace’s boy’s knock you up side the head too?

katy on March 22, 2010 at 10:57 AM

That survey that is quoted over and over about 45,000 people who die annually has been so discredited as to be bizarre that anyone quotes it.

Jdripper on March 22, 2010 at 10:55 AM

Why do you think I said what I said?

ladyingray on March 22, 2010 at 10:57 AM

ladyingray on March 22, 2010 at 10:53 AM

I am well aware of Ann’s history. And perhaps I used the term ‘independent’ poorly. I meant that her points are not simply partisan, and many people here react to them as such.

For example, people here did not realize (and perhaps still do not) what she was saying about the insurance companies.

Having said that, I’ll call her out on anything and everything as I believe I have on any number of threads. I am hardly one of the regular posters here, but I hope to change that.

Scott H on March 22, 2010 at 10:57 AM

I loath democrats. I will never ever vote for any democrat ever again, just like I will never buy a GM car ever again.

The congress is a disgrace, and I am ashamed of it. I am convinced this democrat government wants to knock this country down in an effort to elevate the rest of the world. And they took an oath to preserve and protect.

Like Reagan, I wonder what John Wayne would say if he were alive today?

saiga on March 22, 2010 at 10:58 AM

The moonbats all hoped Obama was going to be another Stalin, and put all the property owners in Gulags.

logis on March 22, 2010 at 10:33 AM

He’s just getting warmed up.

dogsoldier on March 22, 2010 at 11:00 AM

Scott H on March 22, 2010 at 10:49 AM

I’ll sure keep an open mind on that one, Scott. Right now, I tend to agree that it’s awfully tough to truly get a congress that could pull off a complete roll-back.

That could be way too high to jump.

We saw a big one, with welfare reform, but gosh, it took years and years of seeing the effects of generational poverty patterns to convince people to take that risk.

Maybe the lessons of that reform will carry through. I’m not sure.

AnninCA on March 22, 2010 at 11:00 AM

over the next few years, Democrats are going to really, really regret the precedent they’ve set here.

Power in all situations now equals 50% + 1.

That’s going to really sting when the MASK/”Make America Safer for Kittens” Act – i.e. gutting all their pet programs, “for the children” of course – rolls around.

Lehosh on March 22, 2010 at 11:01 AM

I see all the trolls on here gloating this morning. Where were your cowardly hides the last two days? We’re in no mood for your bull today, so get out of our faces and take your crap elsewhere.

silvernana on March 22, 2010 at 11:02 AM

–That only applies to some biologic drugs, not all drugs.

Jimbo3 on March 22, 2010 at 10:32 AM

That is nice, Jimbo. Do you realize that a search of those drugs includes drugs to treat rheumatoid arthritis, heart failure, and some cancers?

TXMomof3 on March 22, 2010 at 11:03 AM

+1. My father’s company is already in damage-control mode.
Well, he’ll get the bonus, too. *haha

(Don’t spend it all too fast. This may be the last year for that bonanza for awhile.)

AnninCA on March 22, 2010 at 10:35 AM

You really take the cake, Ann–and please don’t take that as a message to tell me your latest cooking experiences…I think I will start calling you, “Clueless in Texas”…

lovingmyUSA on March 22, 2010 at 11:03 AM

I am well aware of Ann’s history. And perhaps I used the term ‘independent’ poorly. I meant that her points are not simply partisan, and many people here react to them as such.

I am officially Independent. What’s goofy about some of the posters here is that I am far, far more GOP at this point in life than ever.

It distresses my liberal family. *haha

I just think it’s a really partisan era. There’s no point in voting Dem right now. I know they’ll cave, no matter how they campaign.

It’s just going to be that way for awhile, and the GOP fiscal conservatives have my vote for now.

Now, they could blow it, of course. If they don’t offer sound solutions and just become shrill….then on a national level, anyway, I’ll just avoid the whole vote.

But I don’t see that happening on a state level, anyway.

AnninCA on March 22, 2010 at 11:03 AM

Obama’s Cloward-Piven machinations will backfire; in the chaos, this country will never go socialist. There are always unintended consequence to lefty’s grand schemes. The unintended consequence of Obama’s remaking of America will be the rebirth of our freedom and liberty.

bitsy on March 22, 2010 at 10:41 AM

Your lips to God’s ears.

Puddleglum on March 22, 2010 at 11:04 AM

You really take the cake, Ann–and please don’t take that as a message to tell me your latest cooking experiences…I think I will start calling you, “Clueless in Texas”…

lovingmyUSA on March 22, 2010 at 11:03 AM

Oh come on. I was just teasing with you guys.

AnninCA on March 22, 2010 at 11:04 AM

Th Dems just turned the crank on Obamas’ Health Care Jack in the Box and, out popped ????#$%@#&*#$!!!!

Democrat Armageddon!!

donh525 on March 22, 2010 at 11:06 AM

Oh come on. I was just teasing with you guys.

AnninCA on March 22, 2010 at 11:04 AM

*haha

*eyeroll*

ladyingray on March 22, 2010 at 11:06 AM

I feel sorry for those 45,000 people who die each year who don’t have insurance…

ladyingray on March 22, 2010 at 10:32 AM

I feel sorry for those millions of people having to pay their hard earned money to insure those on the government dola that refuse to work or even lift a finger to take any responsibility for themselves.

This is yet another motivator for millions more to not work and climb on the government gravy train of free money for nothing. Anyone who thinks this is not an icentive for more lazy people to live off the government is a fool.

saiga on March 22, 2010 at 11:07 AM

*haha

*eyeroll*

ladyingray on March 22, 2010 at 11:06 AM

*lol*

(You’re pretty easy to stir up, actually.)

Seriously, I think some of you need to lighten up a bit.

AnninCA on March 22, 2010 at 11:07 AM

Ann: You are not seeing the point.

Leviathan will never relinquish power willingly. I think we both agree to that. However, you seem to think that sweet reason will work.

You are a fly to Leviathan. It won’t hear your buzz.

We cannot seek to control Leviathan. Even were that possible, we would still need to feed it. Conservative thought is grounded in the philosophical certainty that Leviathan cannot be controlled.

Therefore, any argument grounded in the idea of controlling Leviathan fails a priori.

Right now, repeal of this legislation will have popular support. Therefore, Leviathan’s task is clear: destroy popular support, and weaken and distract the flies that buzz around.

To this point, we have had the honeyed words of Annatar, the Lord of Gifts. Just as in Numenor, those words promised that we would all be immortal, and the Akallabeth followed. Just as in the sinking of Atlantis, Sauron has lost his ability to put his mask back on.

After this, the only weapon available to Leviathan is the tyranny of the Lidless Eye.

Scott H on March 22, 2010 at 11:08 AM

I feel sorry for those millions of people having to pay their hard earned money to insure those on the government dola that refuse to work or even lift a finger to take any responsibility for themselves.

This is yet another motivator for millions more to not work and climb on the government gravy train of free money for nothing. Anyone who thinks this is not an icentive for more lazy people to live off the government is a fool.

saiga on March 22, 2010 at 11:07 AM

Don’t you find that some part of this problem also is imbedded in the housing crisis/crash?

I’m still amazed at the number of people who jumped to run up credit card debt, buy into houses that they couldn’t possibly hope to afford, etc.

It was like a roaring 20′s atmosphere.

AnninCA on March 22, 2010 at 11:09 AM

AnninCA on March 22, 2010 at 11:07 AM

You’re irritating…like a paper cut.

ladyingray on March 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM

I feel sorry for those millions of people having to pay their hard earned money to insure those on the government dola that refuse to work or even lift a finger to take any responsibility for themselves.

saiga on March 22, 2010 at 11:07 AM

I’m one of those millions who pays.

ladyingray on March 22, 2010 at 11:11 AM

The more I hear and see of John Boehner the more I like him. And especially compared to Pelosi (what a crackpot!) he will be an excellent alternative to have as Speaker of the House. We have a lot of work to do – the Obama thuggery propaganda machine is in overdrive and it even appears they’re trying to smear the tea party by planting anarchists and racist crazies in the demonstrations. The democrats are the most corrupt and sneaky politicians ever so I hope the republicans are agressive and fierce, but careful and vigilant also.

mozalf on March 22, 2010 at 11:12 AM

Ann: Kicking people, no matter how lightly, when they’re down is contemptible, and you just explicitly said you did it.

Since you are, by your own words, not a conservative, you might want to learn some basic etiquette regarding how to treat us.

You would do far better here if you did.

Scott H on March 22, 2010 at 11:12 AM

<I feel sorry for those 45,000 people who die each year who don’t have insurance…

ladyingray on March 22, 2010 at 10:32 AM

The “45,000 people died” arguement is asinine….The only thing certain is death and taxes, now we’ll have the same amount of death but a lot more taxes (not paid by the looters).

How many people died with insurance, ever think about them and how they used their own money to try and extend their lives?

Tony253 on March 22, 2010 at 11:12 AM

lol*

(You’re pretty easy to stir up, actually.)

Seriously, I think some of you need to lighten up a bit.

AnninCA on March 22, 2010 at 11:07 AM

Lighten up, huh…you need to get out of the frumpy housecoat and go out into the fresh air..and take those curlers out before you forget them…
We are in no mood for your “LOL’s?, your “haha’s” or any fricking “eyerolls”…

lovingmyUSA on March 22, 2010 at 11:12 AM

I have always enjoyed the irony of politics.

AnninCA on March 22, 2010 at 10:43 AM

If the politics of the Dems weren’t so corrupt and damaging, I would enjoy the irony of your thought process.

Sporty1946 on March 22, 2010 at 11:13 AM

Scott H on March 22, 2010 at 10:57 AM

Welcome, Ann’s new “friend”.

Now we’re going to have both of them hijacking threads. Oh Liam, you’ve got competition for Princess Ann’s affection!

Laura in Maryland on March 22, 2010 at 11:13 AM

Right now, repeal of this legislation will have popular support. Therefore, Leviathan’s task is clear: destroy popular support, and weaken and distract the flies that buzz around.

Then the arguments have to be scrupulously well thought out and sound.

It can’t be all about “what might happen.”

Predictive warnings are labeled as nothing but “fear” talk, with some reason. Nobody entirely knows the effects of this or that. It’s speculative.

So, I tend to look at the impact of the bill on real lives. What I see, I think, is that we’ve managed to expand Medicaid.

That’s about all.

And even the poorest people I know in my little world here hate Medicaid. Seriously, they’d rather avoid the doctor than go through the hoops the government set up.

And they just don’t take advantage of the programs we even have now due to that.

So what’s really changed here?

AnninCA on March 22, 2010 at 11:13 AM

50 to 70 years from now when people wake up to the realization that we have the same sorry health care the Brits have now, will we still have any of our will left to work toward changing the system, again. Oh, and the Brits will have moved back to market driven health care.

Kissmygrits on March 22, 2010 at 11:13 AM

Tony253 on March 22, 2010 at 11:12 AM

Sarcasm…

…wow. I won’t forget my /s tag ever again!!!

ladyingray on March 22, 2010 at 11:13 AM

You’re irritating…like a paper cut.

ladyingray on March 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM

Or maybe you’re just easily irritated.

:)

That says more about you.

AnninCA on March 22, 2010 at 11:14 AM

Sporty1946 on March 22, 2010 at 11:13 AM

lovingmyUSA on March 22, 2010 at 11:12 AM

ladyingray on March 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM

I love yous guys!

Laura in Maryland on March 22, 2010 at 11:14 AM

Ann: You are not seeing the point

.
Scott–Ann never sees the point….

lovingmyUSA on March 22, 2010 at 11:15 AM

Sarcasm…

…wow. I won’t forget my /s tag ever again!!!

ladyingray on March 22, 2010 at 11:13 AM

LiG = sarc tag!

Laura in Maryland on March 22, 2010 at 11:16 AM

Laura: I’ve been here for a while, and I can’t think of a single instance (including here) where I’ve agreed with Ann. Please find any instance where I have.

Ann: You still persist in the foolishness of believing that arguments will work. They manifestly did not work in this case. Why do you think they will work in the future?

Scott H on March 22, 2010 at 11:16 AM

Don’t you find that some part of this problem also is imbedded in the housing crisis/crash?

I’m still amazed at the number of people who jumped to run up credit card debt, buy into houses that they couldn’t possibly hope to afford, etc.

It was like a roaring 20’s atmosphere.

AnninCA on March 22, 2010 at 11:09 AM

WHAT? People should be free to make their own decisions, and live with the consequences. If some fool demonstrates bad judgment and buys too much house, he took a risk. Sometimes chicken, sometimes feathers. But oh no, now its’ the taxpayers problem. We are simply training people to be irresponsible weenies.

saiga on March 22, 2010 at 11:16 AM

Loving: Quite possibly. There can be more than one reason to speak with someone, though.

Scott H on March 22, 2010 at 11:17 AM

Notice how when the guy at the gavel calls for silence and says “Both sides would do well to remember the dignity of this House” he’s met with laughter.

EasyEight on March 22, 2010 at 11:18 AM

The other impact on the bill is to immediately hit increased taxes. The Dems are now in the position of having to constantly promise that people WILL love this.

How long will that ring true?

Not long, I predict. People will begin to really figure out the actual benefits/costs.

It’s a true boondoggle move, and I trust that voters will simply adjust, give up “independent,” move to the GOP side, and the Dems will truly suffer an amazing mid-term and 2012 loss.

This bill, in short, is the albatross.

AnninCA on March 22, 2010 at 11:18 AM

I love yous guys!

Laura in Maryland on March 22, 2010 at 11:14 AM

Love you, too Laura!

Sporty1946 on March 22, 2010 at 11:18 AM

You’re irritating…like a paper cut.
ladyingray on March 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM
Or maybe you’re just easily irritated.

:)

That says more about you.

AnninCA on March 22, 2010 at 11:14 AM

For once I agree with you Ann–for with you, we ARE easily irritated…

lovingmyUSA on March 22, 2010 at 11:19 AM

saiga: I perfectly agree with you, but what in Ann’s post shows that she doesn’t agree with you? This is the crux of the issue. If you can show me that, I will concede the point and relegate Ann to the level associated with trolls. However, I am not sure if she is saying anything more than that the government shouldn’t have mandated the offering of credit to underqualified individuals.

Which is the true reason of the housing crash, no?

Scott H on March 22, 2010 at 11:20 AM

WHAT? People should be free to make their own decisions, and live with the consequences. If some fool demonstrates bad judgment and buys too much house, he took a risk. Sometimes chicken, sometimes feathers. But oh no, now its’ the taxpayers problem. We are simply training people to be irresponsible weenies.

saiga on March 22, 2010 at 11:16 AM

Well, unfortunately, that trend means that over 60% of houses are “under water” today, whether you were wise or not.

AnninCA on March 22, 2010 at 11:20 AM

That survey that is quoted over and over about 45,000 people who die annually has been so discredited as to be bizarre that anyone quotes it. Even the authors of the study were compelled to go back and attach caveats in regards to the claims they made. They also refuse to debate the study’s results. They did once and were embarrassed completed.

Jdripper on March 22, 2010 at 10:55 AM

Since in 2009 at least 2,426,264 Americans died perhaps the creators of that survey of 45,000 Americans died without health insurance would have been better served if they had argued that more lives could have been saved if all Americans cancelled their health insurance! (A black humor moment by Basil Fawlty).

Basil Fawlty on March 22, 2010 at 11:20 AM

That only applies to some biologic drugs, not all drugs.

Jimbo3 on March 22, 2010 at 10:32 AM
That is nice, Jimbo. Do you realize that a search of those drugs includes drugs to treat rheumatoid arthritis, heart failure, and some cancers?

TXMomof3 on March 22, 2010 at 11:03 AM

A House panel voted for the 12 year exclusivity last August, by a 47-11 vote. That suggests that quite a few GOP and Dem representatives were in favor of the longer exclusivity period.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124917341780899303.html

Jimbo3 on March 22, 2010 at 11:21 AM

Well, unfortunately, that trend means that over 60% of houses are “under water” today, whether you were wise or not.

AnninCA on March 22, 2010 at 11:20 AM

And whose fault is that. Quick.

Sporty1946 on March 22, 2010 at 11:21 AM

I love yous guys!

Laura in Maryland on March 22, 2010 at 11:14 AM

Likewise!

lovingmyUSA on March 22, 2010 at 11:21 AM

Ann: Yes, this is true. I’ll note that, IMO, the only reason that this met strong opposition in the first place was because the expenses were front-loaded, unlike any other entitlement in history.

However, this must be repealed while it is most vulnerable. If you allow yourself to succumb to the siren song of the Ruling Ring, that you can control and get good out of this, you will fall and become that which you hate.

That was the fate of the Republicans before 2006, and it seems to be that you’re falling right into Leviathan’s trap.

Scott H on March 22, 2010 at 11:22 AM

Johnny B laid down some appropriate, and righteous fury last night. I applaud him. I ask that he bear strong witness to the full, naked truth on issues laid before the Congress that our laws are rooted in laws from God, and when we break from history, we break from those laws, we cut the protective ties that root us in fundamental truth. Those are ties that must be repaired.

ted c on March 22, 2010 at 11:23 AM

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