Video: Rove, Plouffe battle over ObamaCare, deficits

posted at 12:30 pm on March 21, 2010 by Ed Morrissey

One man used political slogans, the other used the actual figures from the bill. In my mind, Karl Rove wins the debate on ObamaCare over David Plouffe on substance, although Plouffe stays cooler in the exchange. Plouffe’s stalwarts will obviously reach the opposite conclusion, but what’s most interesting about this exchange is that Plouffe never rebuts the charges of double counting or the sleaziness of leaving out the planned “doc fix.” Either Plouffe’s implicitly admitting to it, or he’s out of his league when it comes to arguing on the accounting.

“We will see if they pass this bill,” Karl Rove, who was “the Architect” behind George W. Bush’s two successful Presidential elections, said. “I hope they don’t. I pray they don’t. It will be an economic disaster for the country if they do.” Rove said that the health care bill used “Bernie Madoff-style accounting” and was an “gigantic disaster.”

“Karl and the Republicans would be familiar with that,” Plouffe retorted. “Under their leadership, they took us from big budget surpluses… to a $1.3 trillion deficit,” he said.

Rove hit back: “Look, you have run up more deficit, before this bill, in the first 20 months and 11 days of your term in office then was done in the entire Bush years!”

“Don’t be lecturing us about what you’re doing with the profligate spending that started last year with the failed stimulus bill,” Rove said, “and continued with your budget increases.”

“You will bankrupt the country, if this bill passes!” Rove insisted.

Plouffe responded with another jab: “Karl and the Republicans have zero credibility – about as much credibility as the country of Greece does to talk about fiscal responsibility.”

Rove, brandishing a white board with health care cost figures, interrupted: “For God’s sake, will you stop throwing around epithets and deal with the facts for once, David!”


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Plouffe responded with another jab: “Karl and the Republicans have zero credibility – about as much credibility as the country of Greece does to talk about fiscal responsibility.”

This just makes me sick. Did they not hear about 9/11?

Key West Reader on March 21, 2010 at 12:33 PM

priceless.

moonbatkiller on March 21, 2010 at 12:33 PM

UPDATE: Former CBO Director: Obamacare Deficit will be $562 Billion over 10 years http://bit.ly/bO22yh

This is the sad truth of the Obamacare package that is due to be voted on by the House of Representatives just a few hours from now. Democrats continued to make the explicitly false claim that Obamacare will be a “historic” deficit reduction package on all the Sunday shows, and the establishment media continued to second their false claims and refuse to even mention any of the obvious gimmicks and dodges used to create the false paper deficit savings reported by the CBO last week. Should Obamacare pass, the intentional fraud engaged in by President Obama and Democrats regarding the deficit “savings” issue will be seen as one of the most egregious examples of explicit misrepresentations made by federal officials, and sanctioned by the American media, in the history of this country.

Anti-Harkonnen Freedom Fighter on March 21, 2010 at 12:33 PM

In 2007 there were 141 million income tax returns filed with the IRS. The AGI of all those returns was $8.7 Trillion dollars. AGI counts all our income from any source.

We are on the verge of spending $3.0 Trillion on healthcare ever year.

Gormm on March 21, 2010 at 12:34 PM

Either Plouffe’s implicitly admitting to it, or he’s out of his league when it comes to arguing on the accounting.

The two aren’t mutually exclusive. Rove took it to him, and Rove was passionate and had the facts on his side. If only facts mattered…

trubble on March 21, 2010 at 12:34 PM

Leftists don’t care about facts.

Facts will keep them from stealing your rights.

tetriskid on March 21, 2010 at 12:35 PM

When Democrats talk about the economy under President Bush, they very conveniently omit 9/11, as though that had no impact at all. They also disregard the years of monster growth. And, they focus on the Soros-manipulated economy of the final Bush year. Nobody can convince that Soros did not manipulate the American economy to ensure Obama’s victory.

SilentWatcher on March 21, 2010 at 12:35 PM

he’s (Plouffe) out of his league

NAILED IT!

Only thing missing from Puffy was sob stories. They sell so well to liberals. As for emotion. When does repeating platitudes require emotion?

GarandFan on March 21, 2010 at 12:35 PM

Next Headlines…..

FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO WITH-HOLD TAX REFUNDS.

lm10001 on March 21, 2010 at 12:35 PM

Karl Rove just drank Plouffe’s Milkshake.

You magnificent bastahhhhd.

portlandon on March 21, 2010 at 12:36 PM

Obama’s whole regime is based on one big lie after another. Obama’s job ratings are in GW Bush territory. Most of the country is against Obamacare and Plouffe says that Repblicans have zero credibility? Plouffe is delusional.

BottomLine5 on March 21, 2010 at 12:36 PM

The anointed have no use for evidence and facts. They simply know this plan will benefit America.

jhffmn on March 21, 2010 at 12:39 PM

We lost this because of Social Security. That like this was the moment that Bush lost his presidency. His guys put their heads in the sand. The Dems are standing by their man, However twisted it is.

tomas on March 21, 2010 at 12:40 PM

The advantage Plouffe has is that unionized public school teachers have been running interference for Democrats for a couple generations now, making sure in most cases, math arguments go right over the public’s head. Job well done.

RBMN on March 21, 2010 at 12:40 PM

Welcome to Thunderdome!

Rndguy on March 21, 2010 at 12:41 PM

Meh…

… anyone remember this idiot saying this?

I sure am glad that turned out well. Can’t wait to see what happens if ObowmaCare gets passed.

Good Times! Good Times!

Seven Percent Solution on March 21, 2010 at 12:42 PM

Rove kicked Powder Puff’s behind all the way up and down the street. What about the facts man?????

yoda on March 21, 2010 at 12:42 PM

The world isn’t going to end, but this won’t be the United States anymore.

tomas on March 21, 2010 at 12:43 PM

It was a beautiful thing to watch. However, I’m sure, as stated above, that Plouffe’s supporters will think he was just dandy.

I think he is a dandy.

Anyway, it’s pretty clear that Plouffe is good at running campaigns, but clueless about running the executive branch of the government. Sooner or later, actions count more than slogans.

SlaveDog on March 21, 2010 at 12:43 PM

What the hell’s Obama’s campaign director doing in the political process?

abobo on March 21, 2010 at 12:43 PM

I’m sorry but it’s so hard to listen to Rove talk about debt when the facts are the facts. Government EXPLODED in size under Bush. He is right… Obama has and will make it much worse but it just sucks what our party did with spending during the Bush years.

brewcrew67 on March 21, 2010 at 12:44 PM

Karl Rove wins the debate on ObamaCare over David Plouffe on substance, although Plouffe stays cooler in the exchange

It’s easy to remain cooler when you don’t care about the truth. Plouffe only had ad hominems and deflection, typical of the lefties.

aikidoka on March 21, 2010 at 12:44 PM

On the verge of having my healthcare managed by the stupidest people in America, that thought alone is making me ill.

Go states, if this crap passes that is all we have left. I guess I should go house shopping in Idaho.

Bishop on March 21, 2010 at 12:45 PM

The Democrats are about to loose all creditbilty as a political party. I find it hard to have a conversation with a political party that is tone deaf to voters.

Rndguy on March 21, 2010 at 12:46 PM

Rove missed a golden opportunity in my mind when Plouffe foolishly mentioned Greece. Obama and Plouffe after all are basically governing America under the Greek model and are going to bankrupt us the same way Greece went banckrupt.

Rove should have said, “Hey Dave, can you tell us why Greece is bankrupt and then explain to us why what you are doing is any different?”

OxyCon on March 21, 2010 at 12:46 PM

Well said Rove but you’re dealing with a “true believer”. That their ideas don’t reflect reality matter not to them.

Yakko77 on March 21, 2010 at 12:47 PM

but it just sucks what our party did with spending during the Bush years.

brewcrew67 on March 21, 2010 at 12:44 PM

True but far too many people use that argument to excuse the Democrats. The useful idiots eat it up .

CWforFreedom on March 21, 2010 at 12:48 PM

A beautiful thing.The intensity displayed by Karl Rove is long overdue from Republican leaders. We need a show of strong of belief to combat the blithe false narrative the Dems are so accustomed to promte.

John E. on March 21, 2010 at 12:49 PM

The world isn’t going to end, but this won’t be the United States anymore.

tomas on March 21, 2010 at 12:43 PM

Except I’m kind of fond of these United States of America and I’m not ready to give up on her and neither are you I suspect but it’s kind of hard when so many are working so hard to undo her.

Yakko77 on March 21, 2010 at 12:49 PM

Had the same argument with my Dad this morning

Daveyardbird on March 21, 2010 at 12:49 PM

In my mind, Karl Rove wins the debate on ObamaCare over David Plouffe on substance, although Plouffe stays cooler in the exchange.

Huh? Sitting there with a smirk on his face, calmly avoiding debating the facts is now a attribute? Plouffe and crew know damn well their estimates are based on a lie. He is bold face lying, yet he gets points for remaining calm?

Wow!

mikkins on March 21, 2010 at 12:50 PM

Funny that no one in the Obama Administration or the Democrat party has can talk facts. Rove did a great job.

djj on March 21, 2010 at 12:51 PM

At least there is a NASCAR race on today…

Seven Percent Solution on March 21, 2010 at 12:52 PM

We cannot change what Bush did, we are dealing with now, and Karl Rove was right-Obama and the Democrats are going to bankrupt America with this bill. I only hope some of the Democrats in Congress were listening.

djn on March 21, 2010 at 12:52 PM

The world isn’t going to end, but this won’t be the United States anymore.

tomas on March 21, 2010 at 12:43 PM

You mean you don’t like the idea of being a nation with a shot economy, little individual freedom, grand government programs that are under funded and a corrupt election system?

Give it about a generation or so after the coming amnesty and check back.

IlikedAUH2O on March 21, 2010 at 12:52 PM

Why are you against hope-strength and justice-courage, Karl? And look, your racist charts don’t scare me. Americans know change isn’t easy, and most of them know it became more difficult because of Bush, too.
-Plouffe

rogerb on March 21, 2010 at 12:53 PM

This. Isn’t. About. Health Care. Its. About. Power. None. Of. The. Facts. Matter.

johnsteele on March 21, 2010 at 12:53 PM

No I won’t give up…What we have to do is be more vocal (leadership) and know when to shut the hell up so the media can’t distort comments. We can do great work, but one person says something and it is ruined. For this to work, we have to be perfect.

We have to get our country back from the British once again. But you have to do this without being called a violent thug. We need Mr. Ryan out at every turn. Someone, who can reason without being caught up in the media hyperbole.

tomas on March 21, 2010 at 12:55 PM

mikkins on March 21, 2010 at 12:50 PM

Smirking or laughing while the other side speaks is an old Alinsky (and eighth grade debating club) trick to shirk points you can’t rebut. Missed the recent POTUS and VP debates, did you?

IlikedAUH2O on March 21, 2010 at 12:55 PM

Liberalism is the philosophy of the stupid. Wow, David. Just……wow.

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on March 21, 2010 at 12:55 PM

One other thing…Please, no one tell me that Amnesty is dead.

tomas on March 21, 2010 at 12:55 PM

At least there is a NASCAR race on today…
Seven Percent Solution on March 21, 2010 at 12:52 PM

Enjoy it, next week those races will be outlawed as not being Green Conscious.

Bishop on March 21, 2010 at 12:56 PM

Yeah, Rove owned Obama’s PR mouthpiece. And it won’t make a bit of difference to the outcome of today’s vote.

ProfessorMiao on March 21, 2010 at 12:56 PM

Facts don’t matter. What matters is appearance, the ‘coolness’ factor.

The country is divided between those who reason and those who are controlled by their emotions.

Skandia Recluse on March 21, 2010 at 12:57 PM

We also need to be the first to get rid of the baby boomers.

tomas on March 21, 2010 at 12:57 PM

How many more times do we have to hear the Plouffe-piece talking points of a political hack? Plouffe responds like a political partisan with no substance re the economic damage this will do to our nation. It is ironic that he compares the fiscal responsibility of the former administration to the failure of Greece’s. ObaMoanomics, with its ever-expanding government bureaucracies and entitlements, is a fast road to Greece’s collapse.

Check out some data vividly graphed by Rep. Paul Ryan:

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MjJmMzA5MGNmNmFmOGI4ZmFiZmFiNTgxYmUyMWNkMGM=

onlineanalyst on March 21, 2010 at 1:00 PM

Hmm Ernie where are you?

CWforFreedom on March 21, 2010 at 1:00 PM

The world isn’t going to end, but this won’t be the United States anymore.

tomas on March 21, 2010 at 12:43 PM
You mean you don’t like the idea of being a nation with a shot economy, little individual freedom, grand government programs that are under funded and a corrupt election system?

Give it about a generation or so after the coming amnesty and check back.

IlikedAUH2O on March 21, 2010 at 12:52 PM

You know, I hate to be a naysayer, but a generation that grows up in the government’s coddling arms isn’t going to out there clamoring to throw them off. If you look at the cases of Canada, Europe and Australia in fact the opposite is what happens. People who grow up with an entitlement mentality are never going to want to get rid of what they have been raised to consider their due from ‘the government’. Instead the debate shifts so that left and right start arguing about who can manage the government behemoth with all its tax handouts better. And this is exactly why the Democrats are willing to blow themselves up in order to get this through. They will indeed have fundamentally transformed America, just as Obama promised more than a year ago. Institutionally and, more important, culturally.

ProfessorMiao on March 21, 2010 at 1:00 PM

Karl was on message this morning. Plouffe was just trying to once again recite the tired old Democrat talking points. They can’t refute the facts so they play dodge ball.

joedoe on March 21, 2010 at 1:01 PM

At least there is a NASCAR race on today…

Seven Percent Solution on March 21, 2010 at 12:52 PM

And it has as much relevance to the crime being committed in congress today as watching these two marginal players in the game yammering at each other.

MrScribbler on March 21, 2010 at 1:01 PM

We also need to be the first to get rid of the baby boomers.

tomas on March 21, 2010 at 12:57 PM

Not sure exactly what you mean by that, but you can rest assured that Obamacare will ensure that they meet an earlier end than might otherwise have been the case.

So if you hate baby boomers so much that you want to “get rid” of them (especially those non-boomers Pelosi and Reid), you should be rootin’ for this legislation. It’s the only legal way to commit generation-cide.

ProfessorMiao on March 21, 2010 at 1:03 PM

? so does this bill go to the senate next or to barry’s desk? Im confused

ousoonerfan15 on March 21, 2010 at 1:03 PM

What the hell’s Obama’s campaign director doing in the political process?

abobo on March 21, 2010 at 12:43 PM

One should ask the same about why Axelrod is likewise involved in debating policy points.

onlineanalyst on March 21, 2010 at 1:03 PM

God Save America…………

game over…Anti-abortion leader Rep. Bart Stupak to vote for health care bill, increasing chances for passage – NBC

Anti-Harkonnen Freedom Fighter on March 21, 2010 at 1:03 PM

Karl Rove did an excellent job. And you are right Ed, the issue of double accounting was never addressed by Plouffe.

tartan on March 21, 2010 at 1:04 PM

ProfessorMiao on March 21, 2010 at 1:03 PM

I mean we need to be the new party of ideas…The Baby bombers are the problem now…not the cure.

tomas on March 21, 2010 at 1:05 PM

Rove’s white board wins every time. Democrats can run from the facts, but you can’t hide from the voters!

TN Mom on March 21, 2010 at 1:08 PM

I wish someone could get it through to the “I know you are but what am I?” crowd that GW Bush was unpopular with his base precisely because he grew the deficits, whereas Obama is popular with his base precisely because he spends money like we have it and is growing the deficit to astronomical proportions.

Conservatives have ALWAYS been against deficits.

Lily on March 21, 2010 at 1:11 PM

mean we need to be the new party of ideas…The Baby bombers are the problem now…not the cure.

tomas on March 21, 2010 at 1:05 PM

You know that society-wide generations are not real things? Sarah Palin and Barack Obama are almost the same age. Karl Rove is a baby boomer, David Plouffe is not.

ProfessorMiao on March 21, 2010 at 1:14 PM

Facts and rules don’t matter to libs/Dims.
Repubs need to get a spine and hit these traitors square in the nuts.

LoneStarGal on March 21, 2010 at 1:26 PM

tomas on March 21, 2010 at 12:57 PM

Many of us “baby boomers” are going to be the ones that show the way to retirement and health care without the government. Most of us have known that these programs were not sustainable for a long time and have been conducting our lives so we don’t have to count on them while ringing the alarm bell. Don’t get discount the canaries in the coal mine.

Cindy Munford on March 21, 2010 at 1:27 PM

The most interesting aspect of the video is that someone at CBS edited it allowing Rove to get the last word:

“I hope they don’t pass it; I pray they don’t pass it. It will be an economic disaster if they do.”

So perhaps some tech editor at ABC will be looking for another job come Monday, or..maybe not.

Oh, and the supposedly brilliant political tactician Plouffe comes across as just another dishonest propagandist of the left. Welcome back to the snake pit, David.

Nichevo on March 21, 2010 at 1:40 PM

Karl Rove wins the debate on ObamaCare over David Plouffe on substance…Plouffe’s stalwarts will obviously reach the opposite conclusion…

Actually, if you follow the link to the ABC site Ed has provided, all the libtards are complaining what a poor job John Karl did moderating the debate in allowing Rove to dominate. If that’s not a concession that their guy got blown out of the water, I don’t know what is – even Plouffe’s fellow travelers can’t bring themselves to pretend that their man was even competitive in the debate.

When the socialist wing of politics can’t even bring themselves to lie about the outcome, and must instead find a scapegoat (ABC moderator) to blame for their debate thrashing

HobbesDFW on March 21, 2010 at 1:48 PM

Guess I’d better check the Preview next time – an entire sentence fragment got away from me there.

HobbesDFW on March 21, 2010 at 1:49 PM

Karl pretty much wiped the floor with him, but Plouffe had the unenviable position of trying to defend the indefensible. I’m just struck by the utter lack of substance emanating from Obama and his minions.

The entire time I am watching this video I am imagining these two gentlemen running presidential campaigns in 2012 for their respective parties. Based on this video, Obama is in big troulbe in 2012. You can’t just run on words next time, Champ.

David2.0 on March 21, 2010 at 1:57 PM

Plouffe is not good enough to lick Rove’s boots. He is a typical leftwing nutjob who has no conception of the truth. Presenting facts to a lib is like urinating in the ocean, means absoultely nothing. Debate to a lefty lemming is name calling and disregarding anything closely resembling the truth.

volsense on March 21, 2010 at 2:02 PM

“You will bankrupt the country, if this bill passes!” Rove insisted.

It will, which is why I’m not worried about it.

Rejoice! The U.S.S.A.’s days are numbered. Barry’s Big Medical System is a giant Redwood on the camel’s back.

When the great default pulls the plug on Social Security and Medicare, what will you do? Do you have a plan?

I know it’s hard to see now, but this is not the beginning of our glorious fascist system, but the beginning of the end, and it will all come crashing down much sooner than you think.

Rae on March 21, 2010 at 2:02 PM

From Drudge:

OVERHEARD: Walking into Capitol this morning on phone, Speaker Pelosi tells Hoyer: ‘Steny, we have to get to 217. None of these members wants to be the deciding vote’… Developing…

Heh heh.

But I thought the bill was sooooooooo wonderful that…….

David2.0 on March 21, 2010 at 2:08 PM

One on one, libs lose to conservatives everytime, not even close. Libs think with their feelings and conservatives think with their brains. Like Pelosi said if we pass health reform, artists of all kinds won’t have to work, but create what is in their minds. Leave it to the regular folks to work and provide their needs. Liberalism (elitism) is a mental disorder and as long as we refuse to acknowledge that we cannot win.

volsense on March 21, 2010 at 2:08 PM

Pluff boy runs campaigns. All he knows is words. He and Soetoro are in perpetual campaign mode. When becoming president, Soetoro never thought he had to put facts forward.

Ricohoc on March 21, 2010 at 2:14 PM

I’ve always admired Rove, even when I disagreed politically.

He never fails to point out the true direction for the opposition that will make sense to real people.

By “real people,” I mean, those of us who aren’t into “gun” solutions or liberal siren calls about the need for radical solutions.

AnninCA on March 21, 2010 at 2:51 PM

I’m not knocking baby boomers, but we have to be perceived as not status quo.

tomas on March 21, 2010 at 2:52 PM

But I don’t think even Rove can make a fabulous argument out of nothing.

The truth is that he’s really pointing out the truth of the matter.

The CBO “momentum” that is driving the flip-flops is false.

AnninCA on March 21, 2010 at 2:52 PM

I’m not knocking baby boomers, but we have to be perceived as not status quo.

tomas on March 21, 2010 at 2:52 PM

I think we are actually quite status quo. A ton of my friends were forced out of jobs. Granted, the corporations sweetened the deal.

But guess what?

Those deals were predicated upon the retirement health benefits, which are very tied into Medicare and have been for most of my entire career.

We paid for those benefits. Now, they are threatening us with a 21% decrease in payments?

Nevermind that they cheated by not including that in the CBO report. That’s dirty politics.

But if I take them seriously, then I’m facing a retirement of being treated like a Medicaid patient.

Frankly, that’s unacceptable. I paid for my retirement benfits through years and years of working way over 40 hours a week.

I’ll be darned if I go down without protest.

AnninCA on March 21, 2010 at 2:56 PM

I know it’s hard to see now, but this is not the beginning of our glorious fascist system, but the beginning of the end, and it will all come crashing down much sooner than you think.

Rae on March 21, 2010 at 2:02 PM

You bring up a very interesting point, that is impossible to prove…..but I’ll offer my own thoughts.

Europe went socialized, due to WWII. We know the history and the reasons.

However, what progressives are failing to understand is that even Europe is in trouble today.

We enter the arena with socialization at this point in globalization?

Oh please, even I can see……dumbo move. It’ll never happen.

What WILL happen is that we quickly get into such national debt that we’re out of options.

If we really had wanted this type of system, which I’m not criticizing, we should have done after WWII, not now.

Democrats are on a fantasy page, in the wrong era.

AnninCA on March 21, 2010 at 3:01 PM

On a positive note, with this new health “care” system, I’ll be going to heaven a lot sooner.

Mojave Mark on March 21, 2010 at 3:11 PM

Being a liberal, Plouffe is no match for Rove. Liberals think with feelings that reinforce their egos, conservatives think with their brains. That is why liberals cannot be trusted with money, especially other peoples’ money. The attacks on Rove on the ABC board after his humiliation
of Plouffe were brutal. Typical responses by name-calling spoiled brats with the mind of a child. They make it too easy sometimes

volsense on March 21, 2010 at 3:18 PM

Liberals piss me off to no end. They never, ever, ever argue the facts. I guess that’s because the facts are against them.

Dopenstrange on March 21, 2010 at 3:29 PM

Denninger: How Far Down The Rabbit Hole Must We Go?

…. before our citizens – and government – wake up?
[...]
Government is enacting “health care reform” today not to reform health care, not to provide health care, but rather to impose an immediate tax on all Americans to attempt to pull up even harder on the monetary stick.

It won’t work folks. It can’t work. More than 18 months ago I identified the primary failure in the path that was being taken, and why. We have tried it Bernanke, Paulson, Geithner, President Bush and President Obama’s way now for nearly three years, and yet there has been no resolution of the debt problem, no resolution of the housing market and no actual economic growth. Instead we have papered over insolvency and lied about the health of both our banking and economic systems.

Meanwhile the cracks in the dam continue to grow. Greece is not just “one little problem” over in Europe. Behind Greece is Spain, Portugal, Italy, Ireland and even Great Britain. None of these nations have yet taken the actions necessary to resolve the problem, for the same reason we have not – it is politically very difficult to tell the entrenched banking interests “you must eat your own cooking – even if you choke on it.”

We still have time to choose between bad and horrifically awful. We can choose between recognizing the Depression we are already in (private GDP has contracted by more than 10% from the peak, which is the definition of economic Depression) or we can risk Zombieland or Mad Max becoming reality.

Since Europe and the rest of the world show no desire or expectation to do the right thing, we must either firewall ourselves off from their collapse or we will inevitably go down the bowl with them.

We are risking severe civil unrest and the possible destruction of our republic by our continued refusal to face the mathematical facts, not just a “double dip” recession. What Greece and other nations are seeing now is nothing compared to what is on the horizon and will reach us if we do not act.

Mathematics yield to no political desire or arrogance wielded by man or woman. Those relationships described by mathematics inexorably come to pass, unless you change the equations. In a debt-backed fiat currency world continuing to load debt into a system that has too much debt in it related to production is a futile and self-destructive act, just as is an alcoholic deciding to chug yet another bottle of whiskey.

Rae on March 21, 2010 at 3:50 PM

well we wouldn’t be in this situation in the first place had it not been for K.Rove’s obsession with the LaRaza/Hispanic vote. He pandered, he groveled, he crawled… to the point where other voting blocks were so disgusted w/the Republicans that they simply turned away. The Bush/Rove wrecking crew poked their finger in the eye of the Conservative Base one too many times. So now we’re being punished with a radical leftist / socialist. And now Rove acts so indignant. K. Rove makes me wanna puke. DD

Darvin Dowdy on March 21, 2010 at 3:57 PM

I can guess now where the rest of the unspent Porkulus is going–to prop up the states until Hugo Obama can get re-elected.

PattyJ on March 21, 2010 at 4:31 PM

“We will see if they pass this bill,” Karl Rove, who was “the Architect” behind George W. Bush’s two successful Presidential elections, said. “I hope they don’t. I pray they don’t. It will be an economic disaster for the country if they do.”

What a clown. Rove was the man who overrode Paul O’Neill (former Alcoa CEO), Greenspan, and Treasury experts who predicted that further tax cuts in 1992 would result in today’s massive deficits. If anyone is to blame for adding $4 bil to the national debt under Bush and establishing massive structural deficits, it’s Karl Rove.

Rove is disingenuous to claim that today’s massive deficits are anything more than a natural consequence of the bubble economy collapsing, resulting in far lower federal tax revenues. Again, it’s more than clear who helped created the bubble in the first place through irresponsible fiscal policy.

bayam on March 21, 2010 at 4:31 PM

* Establishes Individual and Employer Mandates (Mr. Obama’s own Chair of Council of Economic Advisors has stated that this alone would cost 5.5 Million jobs….more unemployment.);
* Institutes $748 Billion in new taxes;
* Cuts Medicare by $500 Billion, over a period when 30% MORE Americans will be added to Medicare rolls, (You do the math…);
* Imposes $136 Billion in tax hikes on working families making LESS THAN $250,000 (Americans for Tax Reform Analysis);
* Ends Medicare Advantage Program for Seniors and forces them to a more expensive plan with less benefits;
* Applies Medicare Tax to unearned income;
* Increases Medicare Payroll Tax from 2.95 to 3.8%; and
* Increases unfunded mandates on every State.
* Increases Capital Gains tax rate as of 2014 to 23.8%
* Creates 16,000 jobs for the IRS to implement penalties for those not buying insurance

The Slaughterhouse Three, Obama, Pelosi and Reid, have authored the legislation that will make every American a POW, strip them of their Freedoms and Liberty and shove them in a meat cellar for cold storage. So how is that Hope and Change working for you now?

nondhimmie on March 21, 2010 at 4:56 PM

Ploufe reminds be of Bagdad Bob Gates.

Glazed look. Good at memorizing talking points and repeating them whatever the other side says.

Stupid. Really stupid.

notagool on March 21, 2010 at 5:06 PM

How much more simple can you make it than what Rove did? The dems are lying plain and simple. Simple should be the word of the day, because that is what you have to believe if you think this bill is good for your health and our country.

oakpack on March 21, 2010 at 5:24 PM

I live in Canada and I can assure you that healthcare never ever reduce the deficit. It increase it !

Antagonist on March 21, 2010 at 5:28 PM

Rove is dead on here, corruptOcare is a gigantic growth of government, it takes 18% of an on the edge economy and the associated tax base, puts it off limits inside our swirling black money hole pit administration and sends 320 million Americans and billions of dependents around the world, over the falls.

Gee golly whiz, why every five minutes is there another trade your gold for cash TV ad?

Democrats, with no support or intelligent encouragement, has their thumb on the flush handle.

Speakup on March 21, 2010 at 5:29 PM

Karl Rove is very good. He has more service for the GOP and the country ahead of him.

Phil Byler on March 21, 2010 at 9:23 PM

Eat’em up, Karl! That was the verbal equivalent of a running kick to the stones. His last utterances were a vain attempt to remove said stones from the roof of his mouth. Well done, Sir.

Claypigeon on March 21, 2010 at 10:24 PM

Karl Rove is very good. He has more service for the GOP and the country ahead of him.

After masterminding tax cuts that added $4 tril of debt to the nation and laying the groundwork for a massive structural deficit, I can hardly wait to see what he has to contribute next.

bayam on March 21, 2010 at 10:29 PM

I see one of the lefty trolls has arrived to try and make up for their loss.

Hard Right on March 21, 2010 at 10:41 PM

After masterminding tax cuts that added $4 tril of debt to the nation and laying the groundwork for a massive structural deficit, I can hardly wait to see what he has to contribute next.

bayam on March 21, 2010 at 10:29 PM

Tax cuts by definition cannot add debt. They are effectively the government not taking money out of the American people. This frees them to engage in economic activity which will compensate for any loss in tax revenue. The closer the use of money to its earner the more efficient its use.

It was all the government spending that added to the debt. If a union decides to lower its mimimum dues (impossible scenario I know) and then goes bankrupt, is it because the union worker kept more of his money or because the union leaders spent more on electing the Democrat than last year? You want to blame the union worker. I blame the union leaders.

BKennedy on March 22, 2010 at 4:22 AM

Tax cuts by definition cannot add debt. They are effectively the government not taking money out of the American people. This frees them to engage in economic activity which will compensate for any loss in tax revenue. The closer the use of money to its earner the more efficient its use

If you lower taxes without cuts in spending, then yes, you will add to the national debt. I’m not opposed to tax cuts- I’m simply saying that you need to cut spending as well. To only raise spending or to only cut taxes is a recipe for fiscal disaster (if that’s not already obvious by now). This isn’t a complicated concept based on abstract theory. Anyone who balances a checkbook can grasp it. In fact, under Paul O’Neill in the first Bush administration, Treasury conducted a study that predicted massive deficits based on US policy at the time:

A report commissioned in 2002 by O’Neill, while he was Treasury Secretary, suggested the United States faced future federal budget deficits of more than US$ 500 billion. The report also suggested that sharp tax increases, massive spending cuts, or both would be unavoidable if the United States were to meet benefit promises to its future generations. The study estimated that closing the budget gap would require the equivalent of an immediate and permanent 66 percent across-the-board income tax increase

bayam on March 22, 2010 at 9:03 AM