Open thread: House votes coming; Update: Ryan, Pence videos added; Update: 219-212; Update: GOP’s hail mary fails; Update: Roll added

posted at 8:37 pm on March 21, 2010 by Allahpundit

The big one on the Senate bill should come sometime around nine or thereafter, but since no one knows precisely when, let’s play it safe by opening a thread now. Once the Senate bill passes, they’ll move on to the GOP’s hail mary to try to kill this thing, and if that goes down then the game is over and they’ll mop up with the reconciliation fix. Then, tomorrow, at long long last, the future after health care begins.

I can’t bring myself to be eeyorish on a night when so many others are down, so read Powerline’s list of reasons why all is not lost. There will, of course, be constitutional challenges too; the attorneys general of Florida and South Carolina have the papers ready and are waiting for The One to put pen to paper on it so that the suits can begin. Beyond that, though, never forget: The entitlements crisis is coming regardless of what happens tonight. This will accelerate it — according to former CBO chief Douglas Holtz-Eakin, the real numbers on O-Care mean $562 billion added to the deficit — but no matter what speed it’s traveling at, the train is still racing right at us. Now Congress will be forced to decide whether to derail it or stand there and get hit a little earlier than it might have.

Finally, let me repeat a note of caution from earlier: Frustration over the bill is not an excuse to violate the site’s terms of use. The more time Ed and I need to devote to moderating comments, the less time we have to post updates. Please take a breath and observe the rules before you post. Thanks in advance.

Update: Pro-lifers show Stupak what they think of his executive order:

Susan B. Anthony List Candidate Fund President Marjorie Dannenfelser said the group was revoking its “Defender of Life” award to Stupak, which was to be awarded at its Wednesday night gala.

“We were planning to honor Congressman Stupak for his efforts to keep abortion-funding out of health care reform. We will no longer be doing so,” Dannenfelser said. “Let me be clear: any representative, including Rep. Stupak, who votes for this health care bill can no longer call themselves ‘pro-life.’”

Update (Ed): Let me add another warning to those who want to play semantic games about the ToS and dancing on the edge of violations.  We’re not in this to be lawyers or to get into long, drawn-out e-mail debates.  Don’t play with fire if you don’t want to get burned, and don’t expect a lot of mercy after we’ve spent most of the weekend having to pore over the comment threads.  Once the ban hammer falls from either of us, it’s final.

Update: Rave reviews in the comments for Paul Ryan’s and Mike Pence’s floor speeches. Click the image to watch.

ryan

pence

Update: Looks like the ending will be dramatic after all: LifeNews is hearing that the GOP will indeed force the Dems to choke on Stupak’s abortion language in its motion to recommit.

Update (Ed): Senate bill passes the House in the first vote, 219-212.  Stupak’s surrender made the difference.

Update (AP): I’m honestly surprised they had more than 217. I figured Pelosi would cut everyone else loose.

Update: The hail mary falls incomplete in the end zone as the Stupakers avoided the temptation to vote on the GOP’s motion to recommit on the abortion language. 232 no’s, 199 yeses. Now it’s over, except for the reconciliation mop-up fix.

Update: 220-211 on reconciliation. I wonder which Democrat who voted no on the Senate bill flipped to yes on this one.

Update: The Hill has the 34 Dems who voted no on Reid’s bill. We’ll know more tomorrow about which voted on principle and which were released by Pelosi.

Rep. John Adler (N.J.)
Rep. Jason Altmire (Pa.)
Rep. Michael Arcuri (N.Y.)
Rep. John Barrow (Ga.)
Rep. Marion Berry (Ark.)
Rep. Dan Boren (Ind.)
Rep. Rick Boucher (Va.)
Rep. Bobby Bright (Ala.)
Rep. Ben Chandler (Ky.)
Rep. Travis Childers (Miss.)
Rep. Artur Davis (Ala.)
Rep. Lincoln Davis (Tenn.)
Rep. Chet Edwards (Texas)
Rep. Stephanie Herseth Sandlin (S.D.)
Rep. Tim Holden (Pa.)
Rep. Larry Kissell (N.C.)
Rep. Frank Kratovil (Md.)
Rep. Dan Lipinski (Ill.)
Rep. Stephen Lynch (Mass.)
Rep. Jim Marshall (Ga.)
Rep. Jim Matheson (Utah)
Rep. Mike McIntyre (N.C.)
Rep. Mike McMahon (N.Y.)
Rep. Charlie Melancon (La.)
Rep. Walt Minnick (Idaho)
Rep. Glenn Nye (Va.)
Rep. Collin Peterson (Minn.)
Rep. Mike Ross (Ark.)
Rep. Heath Shuler (N.C.)
Rep. Ike Skelton (Mo.)
Rep. Zack Space (Ohio)
Rep. John Tanner (Tenn.)
Rep. Gene Taylor (Miss.)
Rep. Harry Teague (N.M.)


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Lost my shape on March 22, 2010 at 9:07 AM

What’s the fricking story Ed/Allah? Can you just email and say you are a troll and get in under the radar? The ignorance level of the trolls you’re now letting in, is beyond belief…

Minors shouldn’t be allowed…

lovingmyUSA on March 22, 2010 at 9:44 AM

Dave Rywall is a troll!

Hey Dave, you wussy frenchy lib, our troops already KNOW how badly the spineless idiot demlibs have stabbed them in the back.

BobUSMC on March 22, 2010 at 9:45 AM

How do you know Obama is lying?

Because his lips are moving.

BobUSMC on March 22, 2010 at 9:46 AM

How does Dave Rywall know Obama’s lying?

He doesn’t because he’s a brainwashed lib.

BobUSMC on March 22, 2010 at 9:46 AM

How do you know Obama is lying?

Because his lips are moving he is still alive.

BobUSMC on March 22, 2010 at 9:46 AM

FIFY, the man lies all the times, even to himself in his private most thoughts.

Holger on March 22, 2010 at 9:49 AM

Freedom suffered a near-fatal blow last night. This will be like Medicare and Social Security. It will never be repealed because even conservative Republicans don’t have the balls to stand up and be falsely accused of taking away American’s healthcare and the SCOTUS is too gutless to go against precedent and admit the unconstitutionality of it.
And still Glenn Beck says we must be peaceful. Right…just like Congress, peacefully surrendering our liberty for the false promise of security. We are all Dave Rywall today. Ain’t that a b*tch!

Extrafishy on March 22, 2010 at 9:50 AM

Okay I said I would take just one day to be depressed. Lasted about 10 mins.
I volunteered for Nick Popaditch, “The Cigar Marine” running for CA-51. I would suggest anyone in the south San Diego county area do the same. Here is a LINK.

http://www.popaditchforcongress.com/index.html

He is running against Bob Filner, sorry excuse for congressman.

ps-Bob, I made you a promise, and I keep my word.

I feel much better already.

JusDreamin on March 22, 2010 at 9:55 AM

godless, secular government is doomed to fail.

Unless the LORD builds the house,
those who build it labor in vain.
Unless the LORD watches over the city,
the watchman stays awake in vain.
It is in vain that you rise up early
and go late to rest,
eating the bread of anxious toil;
for he gives to his beloved sleep.

The wicked shall return to Sheol,
and all the nations that forget God.

2Brave2Bscared on March 22, 2010 at 9:24 AM

So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I[God] sent it. (Isaiah 55:11)

Basil Fawlty on March 22, 2010 at 9:59 AM

Yeah you’re absolutely right – the Dems were really, really, really irresponsible when they were claiming there would be death panels. They really shouldn’t have done that and misled the American people.

Dave Rywall on March 22, 2010 at 8:10 AM

Honey, if you don’t think there are death panels in that huge piece of crap, you haven’t been paying attention! What do you think the “cost comparison” panel is going to do? It’s going to determine whose cost effective to keep alive and whose ready to die. Why do you think those over a certain age are mandated “right to die” lectures every 5 years? You better pray you don’t end up with some chronic, expensive condition after age 50.

katablog.com on March 22, 2010 at 10:05 AM

Sporty1946 on March 22, 2010 at 9:27 AM

I can’t speak for all troops (unlike the supposedly clairvoyant Mr. Rywall), but I can tell you that my soldiers are singularly disgusted and wondering what’s blowing through the vents at the Capital. Of course, we have experience with no-choice medical, so we know what you poor folks are in for.

CantCureStupid on March 22, 2010 at 10:05 AM

katablog.com on March 22, 2010 at 10:05 AM

But it isn’t called a Death Panel, therefore it isn’t a Death Panel. /Dave Rywall

It is utterly Orwellian. UK’s Death Panel is called NICE.

Holger on March 22, 2010 at 10:07 AM

I’m a veteran and I can tell you that if I ever met Drywall I’d punch him in the face.

fossten on March 22, 2010 at 10:09 AM

Vote Democrat: Because making decisions about your own life is too hard

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on March 21, 2010 at 11:53 PM

The epitomy of a liberal.

Badger40 on March 22, 2010 at 10:16 AM

Dave Rywall on March 22, 2010 at 8:10 AM

A death panel by any other name is still a death panel.
Its function is the same.

Badger40 on March 22, 2010 at 10:17 AM

So who yelled “Baby Killer” last night? Anyone get the name of the classy Congressperson?

pm123 on March 22, 2010 at 11:22 AM

Freedom suffered a near-fatal blow last night. This will be like Medicare and Social Security. It will never be repealed because even conservative Republicans don’t have the balls to stand up and be falsely accused of taking away American’s healthcare and the SCOTUS is too gutless to go against precedent and admit the unconstitutionality of it.

Extrafishy on March 22, 2010 at 9:50 AM

Actually, watch the video with Paul Ryan and Louise Slaughter. He breaks down the numbers. Medicare is bankrupt, an unsustainable liability, and the Democrats own it as an issue now. The Great Society is only 35 years old. SS was passed in 1965. The Democrats have always crowed that no entitlement can be undone, but they have done just that. They’re the ones gutting Medicare and looting SS now.

chunderroad on March 22, 2010 at 11:34 AM

So who yelled “Baby Killer” last night? Anyone get the name of the classy Congressperson?

pm123 on March 22, 2010 at 11:22 AM

Every Democrat should be called what they are from now on. Bart Stupak was stripped of his Defender of Life award, far worse than being called a baby killer, even if that’s what he is. BAIPA, which Obama fought against, means Born Alive. You were all fine and dandy with leaving infants to die. That is baby killing. The myth of the pro-life Democrat has been put to rest. Your President supports infanticide, and your sell-out 216th vote accepted an EO from him. He is a baby killer, and your party is pro-abortion.

chunderroad on March 22, 2010 at 11:40 AM

Our liberty has been under attack by evil men, and they just won a big battle. It started long before today, but I think we just lost the biggest chunk of liberty in my lifetime.

You have no idea how hard it is for me to quote this right now, since my faith is hanging on a thread, but here it is…

1 Do not fret because of evil men
or be envious of those who do wrong;

2 for like the grass they will soon wither,
like green plants they will soon die away.

3 Trust in the LORD and do good;
dwell in the land and enjoy safe pasture.

4 Delight yourself in the LORD
and he will give you the desires of your heart.

Daggett on March 22, 2010 at 4:43 AM

I appreciate your timely reminders. Thanks. Stay strong everyone. Stay strong.

redwhiteblue on March 22, 2010 at 11:41 AM

your party is pro-abortion.

chunderroad on March 22, 2010 at 11:40 AM

Which is no surprise. That they are willing to literally force every American to pay for their “choice” is what is so deeply disturbing. They have turned the notion of abortions being about choice into abortion being about obligation. We are now ALL obliged to support the choice of abortion through our hard-earned tax dollars. 2 + 2 = 5

redwhiteblue on March 22, 2010 at 12:04 PM

I am not a legal expert, but perhaps there is a lawyer or two on here that can explain the Conscientious Objector statutes? I know Michigan (oh, the irony) and Georgia have some statutes allowing medical professionals to abstain from morally objectionable practices if it violates their beliefs. Wondering whether a legal challenge would stick to not participate (i.e. fund with taxes) in any program which funds abortions. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

Huckabye-Romney on March 22, 2010 at 12:28 PM

by the way….sitting here in MA waiting for the federal government to provide the additional/unexpected $1.5 billion to maintain solvency in the program which after just 4 years is almost double the estimated cost. Small, unmarked bills please.

Huckabye-Romney on March 22, 2010 at 12:32 PM

And spare us the destroying liberty drama bullsh*t. You sound like a bedwetting schoolgirl.

Dave Rywall on March 22, 2010 at 8:25 AM

You are now required to purchase insurance when you were not required to do so before.

We are objectively less free because of this legislation. Perhaps you disagree with the scope of the freedom lost, but that is a simple fact that you deny at your party’s own peril.

Democrats will pay a significant electoral price for this in November.

TheUnrepentantGeek on March 22, 2010 at 1:38 PM

BobAnthony on March 22, 2010 at 12:02 PM

Oh, Don’t worry about Drywall needing a job.. You see, he is a Member of Parliament in Canada.. Or so he has claimed in the past.

LegendHasIt on March 22, 2010 at 1:51 PM

Or so he has claimed in the past.

LegendHasIt on March 22, 2010 at 1:51 PM

Are you kidding me?
LOL!

And spare us the destroying liberty drama bullsh*t. You sound like a bedwetting schoolgirl.

Dave Rywall on March 22, 2010 at 8:25 AM

Considering that you are Canadian, perhaps you do not care about freedom like we do.
We like being free to succeed or fail.
Perhaps you like the govt making decisions for you.
After all, life is scary & you might screw up.
It’s so much nicer to have someone else to blame when things go wrong other than yourself.
And tell me again, why are you commenting here?
If you are truly Canadian, then your opinions on our politics are worthless.
Why not use your time more wisely to influence your own countrymen & women to cause change for a better Canada instead of coming here to b!tch?

Badger40 on March 22, 2010 at 2:00 PM

Are you kidding me?
Badger40 on March 22, 2010 at 2:00 PM

Nope. It was a year or three ago. Didn’t get a lot of notice, but a few of us caught it and have been snarking him with it when he gets too irritating.

LegendHasIt on March 22, 2010 at 2:17 PM

Thank you, PatriotVet!

Has that passed the Senate, as well?

And my criticism still stands: anything that needs to be ‘fixed’ of this nature by a bill rushed through Congress demonstrates that it is poorly thought out legislation. The more ‘fixes’ it needs, the worse it becomes as it creates a more and more complex system with more failure points, not fewer. When a system is so complex that you cannot say, for certain, what any single change will do to it, then it is ripe for failure.

‘The more they overhaul the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drains.’ – Montgomery Scott, amonst many.

ajacksonian on March 22, 2010 at 9:26 AM

I heard from McCain that it had, but I can not find it anywhere through a search of the record. So, I am not sure.

Your point about having to “fix” it is spot on. Isn’t that what the bill was supposed to do in the first place? It hasn’t fixed anything, it has made things worse.

I also heard a law professor on C-SPAN this morning talking about the constitutional arguments with the bill. He said that he only saw the “mandate” being a question, but pretty much brushed it aside saying that the SCOTUS has set precedence for the Federal Government taking such action because of the commerce clause. I find that argument extremely weak. If the Federal Government is allowed to force citizens of this nation to buy something on the open market, simply because it “touches” commerce, what is to stop them from “mandating” citizens to buy some other good to stabalize a market? It won’t! Along that reasoning, they could tell each American to buy a certain stock so a company didn’t fail. It a is totally absurd, and loose reading of that clause.

There is another problem that may be there. A question needs to be asked; does this bill “raise revenue”? I am believe the answer to that is yes. So why did the bill originate in the Senate? The constitution clearly states:

Section 7 – Revenue Bills, Legislative Process, Presidential Veto
All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives;

It imposes a tax on individuals if they do not buy healthcare and are able to. That, IMHO, raises revenue through taxation and the bill had to originate in the House. Am I wrong in that assertion?

Patriot Vet on March 22, 2010 at 2:30 PM

Badger40 on March 22, 2010 at 2:00 PM

Oh, Dave’s Canadian? Well then.

Dave, I’m sorry that your country is a bad joke that only exists because you’re protected by mine. It’s really too bad that you’re leaching off of our military strength so that you can fund a bunch of social programs. I guess maybe some day you guys can grow up, move out, and get a credible military of your own? That would be nice for everyone, I think.

At least your mounties are kinda neat, and it’s a pretty country. And you’ll always have hockey.

TheUnrepentantGeek on March 22, 2010 at 2:34 PM

Useful idiots like Drywall would be the ones whimpering the loudest the instant the United States wasn’t going to defend his dependent nation of Mexico North from ignorant choices.

viking01 on March 22, 2010 at 2:50 PM

Basil Fawlty on March 22, 2010 at 7:56 AM

I guess someone has to do recon – I can wade into the bowls of Daily Kos and Huff Puff easier than with this guy – I guess I expect more from him because he has a veneer or reason.

Ann NY on March 22, 2010 at 2:52 PM

Obviously, you either have no children or you just don’t care about their future.

Sporty1946 on March 22, 2010 at 8:35 AM

We don’t have any children and probably won’t unless we adopt, but I still think it’s immoral to saddle future generations with financial obligations that they had no say in. Talk about taxation without representation…

Ann NY on March 22, 2010 at 3:01 PM

It imposes a tax on individuals if they do not buy healthcare and are able to. That, IMHO, raises revenue through taxation and the bill had to originate in the House. Am I wrong in that assertion?

Patriot Vet on March 22, 2010 at 2:30 PM

Maybe. It depends on Case Law (if there is any) and the Justices of the Supreme Court.

It was a policy bill that had taxes and such attached to it…

Holger on March 22, 2010 at 3:04 PM

Drywall has a lot less than most. By the way, Dave, why do you care whether or not the Dems are destroying our liberty at every turn? You don’t even live in this country.

Sporty1946 on March 22, 2010 at 8:51 AM

He sounds particularly bitter this morning and I’m not sure why, but then I don’t understand the mentality of anyone who spends his day being a troll. If whatever country he lives in offers “free” mental health therapy, he should probably take advantage of it.

Ann NY on March 22, 2010 at 3:05 PM

Drywall’s bitterness likely extends from a subtle realization that should Canuck-Quack-Care recommend amputation for a hangnail that he may no longer be able to slip across the border for competent medical treatment. That, and being a Leftist he’s got to be blaming some bogeyman for his personal failings.

viking01 on March 22, 2010 at 3:18 PM

And you’ll always have hockey.

TheUnrepentantGeek on March 22, 2010 at 2:34 PM

They also have BSE (AKA Mad Cow Disease) & cannot seem to eradicate it.So they keep pawning off their diseased beef onto us, which has already affected the exports in our industry.

Badger40 on March 22, 2010 at 5:19 PM

loose reading of that clause.

Patriot Vet on March 22, 2010 at 2:30 PM

SCOTUS is constantly making loose reading of a lot of clauses.
They have become untouchable & irresponsible.
Which is why the protest voters who stayed home instead of voting for the lousy 2nd choice of McCain own this, too.
When you get down & dirty: it’s the SCOTUS appointments that can make or break us.

Badger40 on March 22, 2010 at 5:22 PM

They also have BSE (AKA Mad Cow Disease) & cannot seem to eradicate it.So they keep pawning off their diseased beef onto us, which has already affected the exports in our industry.

Badger40 on March 22, 2010 at 5:19 PM

Dude, they’ve got Quebec. We should have seen this coming.

TheUnrepentantGeek on March 22, 2010 at 7:13 PM

We are now ALL obliged to support the choice of abortion through our hard-earned tax dollars.

redwhiteblue on March 22, 2010 at 12:04 PM

I seem to remember the choice of not aborting was subsidized 77 ways from Sunday long before Roe V. Wade…although that doesn’t make this any more right.

Dark-Star on January 2, 2011 at 9:17 PM

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