Hatch to House Dems: If you believe we’ll pass your reconciliation bill as written …
posted at 9:00 am on March 20, 2010 by Ed Morrissey
Not only does the most gentlemanly of Senators blast his lower-chamber colleagues for their belief that reconciliation will sail through the upper chamber unchanged, Orrin Hatch warns Senate Democrats that an attempt to push it through will mean “war.” If they believe Republicans will just sit back and allow Democrats to run roughshod over the minority, they will find themselves in a battle they’ll regret “for the rest of their lives”:
Republican Senator Orrin Hatch said Democrats in the U.S. House of Representatives are “nuts” to think tomorrow’s vote on health-care legislation will resolve the issue.
If the measure passes, Senate Republicans have enough votes on at least two points of order to alter the measure and send it back to the House for a second round of votes, Hatch said in an interview on Bloomberg Television’s “Political Capital with Al Hunt,” airing this weekend.
“If those people think they’re only going to vote on this once, they’re nuts,” Hatch said as House Democratic leaders rounded up support before the scheduled vote on President Barack Obama’s top domestic priority.
The senator from Utah also said the approach Democrats are using to pass the legislation in the House may be unconstitutional because the House and Senate aren’t voting on “exactly the same language.”
I’ve interviewed Hatch a few times, and this is about as harsh as he ever gets. He generally likes to work towards consensus, not confrontation; fire and brimstone aren’t part of his nature. So when Hatch says this, it means something:
Hatch, who was first elected to his seat in 1976, predicted “outright warfare” in the Senate if Democrats use a process called reconciliation that would allow the chamber to pass the health-care measure with a simple majority.
“That’s going to be something they’re going to have to live with the rest of their lives,” Hatch said.
At one time, Democrats considered using a ping-pong strategy to keep refining the bill rather than attempting to do it through reconciliation. It appears that Republicans have now adopted the idea to keep it from passing. If they can alter the bill in their Senate vote — and it might be hard to do, considering they only have 41 votes — then the House will have to reconsider the new language before passing it along to the President for his signature. In the meantime, it will take a long time to get through the various amendments and points of order, and if Republicans really want to make it a “war,” they can make everything else in the Senate come to a halt, too.
When Tom Coburn threatens to do that, people have to take that seriously because Coburn rarely makes empty threats, but it’s usually reflective of Coburn himself. When Orrin Hatch threatens that, it means that most if not all Republicans have had it with Democratic steamrolling. Get ready for some fireworks.
Blowback
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Crowd fills “V” from West Steps to Capitol Reflecting Pool and is spilling outside the “V”; tens of thousands(?) here.
ya2daup on March 20, 2010 at 11:56 AM
will do my best KWR
blatantblue on March 20, 2010 at 11:59 AM
Hatch made statements to this effect more than 2 weeks ago. Check out places like National Review Online. You’d see that several Republicans have had quite a bit to say about what’s going on.
joejm65 on March 20, 2010 at 11:59 AM
The 10th amendment was gutted by A. Lincoln with the War Between the States.
chemman on March 20, 2010 at 12:00 PM
(Hugs)
Key West Reader on March 20, 2010 at 12:03 PM
I don’t see how this is any real comfort. No one other than a bunch of wavering democrats cares that deeply about the reconciliation package anyway, and all indications are that they don’t care enough. If the Republicans kill it in the Senate, then good for them, but so what? Obamacare would already be law at that point.
RINO in Name Only on March 20, 2010 at 12:08 PM
Maybe, or more likely it just dies. But that’s way too late. All of this happens after the Senate bill is law.
RINO in Name Only on March 20, 2010 at 12:13 PM
Hmmm.. Sounds good. I shall try it. And as I do, I shall lift my glass to American Exceptionalism. I will not drink from the chalice of … whatever today’s blood offering that is being served by her royal haughtiness.
Lots of wave runners today. Calm seas. Beautiful blue sky. No Manatees, though. They’re still hibernating.
Key West Reader on March 20, 2010 at 12:19 PM
Do I have time to run to the store for more ice and Jack Daniels?
roflmao
donabernathy on March 20, 2010 at 12:25 PM
When did the Democrats become the ANTI-Constitution Party? This is some scary crap. The Dems must be voted out of power in November for all our sakes.
WyoMike on March 20, 2010 at 12:47 PM
Also, if I remember correctly from my civics class and my speech class…
A motion to adjourn is always in order.
ElRonaldo on March 20, 2010 at 12:56 PM
So Far that’s Senator Coburn and Hatch, that has told the lower house to pound sand….are they that DENSE not to get that everyone is watching them? We all get that they are being paid off to vote YES against We The People…what is the average IQ of someone serving in the House? I think we need to have them pass IQ test before they can run next November.
If this passes, first you get some goodies from this health insurance bill the stuff everyone likes (Dinner) and then you get to pay the Taxes- to pay for the Dinner. They – Congress decided for you what you are going to eat – you know for your own good…..so I guess we should be happy they are buying us dinner before they bend us over? Except they are making us pick up the tab for the Dinner too.
This goes back to people who have to live within their limits, they know that at some point the bill comes due…these people in Congress think it’s monopoly money, and it’s all just a game of moving funny money around (Government Bureaucrats) We need a cease and desist order.
Dr Evil on March 20, 2010 at 1:01 PM
Those are the operative words and they signal to me that ultimately the republicans will compromise, aka, sell out. When it comes to making deals with the donks we always get scr*wed.
Blake on March 20, 2010 at 1:12 PM
Blah blah blah. Talk on Hatch. The republicans always say such things and they get ignored and the liberal crap keeps sliding right on through.
In fact, I believe such threats of holding things up at a future roadblock actually help the bill along. Those feeling a prick of the conscience about voting for the bill will go ahead and vote for it if they can convince themselves it might be stopped further down the line.
Republicans should say, “This is the end. If you pass it, it’s on your head.” And then keep fighting it every step. Telegraphing the punches is not working.
ROCnPhilly on March 20, 2010 at 1:16 PM
They do not have the votes…!
Seven Percent Solution on March 20, 2010 at 1:28 PM
Fixed.
rukiddingme on March 20, 2010 at 1:30 PM
No it doesn’t. This whole wacky scheme came about so that the bills would be fused to guarantee the House that an amended bill of some form to their liking must pass before Obama can sign it.
Obama can’t sign just the Senate part of the bill anymore because it didn’t pass the House- the amended bill passed the House. He has to wait until the amended bill passes the Senate as well, which it won’t without going back to the House first. No way in hell does this bill go through the Senate intact, even if the GOP didn’t lift a finger.
If they just went with straight reconciliation he could have. They couldn’t go that route because of the risk you are describing.
Chuck Schick on March 20, 2010 at 1:31 PM
I don’t think so. He is just emphasizing that all of the various compromises and deals the House democrats are making are meaningless, because even if the Republicans aren’t able to stop it completely, the reconciliation bill won’t be able to pass word for word in the Senate. But once it can’t pass word for word, that essentially makes it meaningless, since once it goes back to the house again, the Senate bill will already be passed, making the political dynamic entirely different for everyone.
He wants wavering house Dems(e.g. Stupak’s group, but also anyone else who is counting on the reconciliation package to fix things) to know that they will either get stuck with only the senate bill, or the senate bill plus a completely different reconciliation package than the one that the house votes on.
I hope this gets emphasized a lot by republicans, cause I’m not convinced a lot of people in Congress will understand this – this has to be new for a lot of them, and they aren’t all the sharpest tools in the shed, so to speak.
RINO in Name Only on March 20, 2010 at 1:33 PM
They do not have the votes…!
Seven Percent Solution on March 20, 2010 at 1:28 PM
I pray you are correct! But I`m worried just the same, because we don`t know what bribes they have made overnight.
LSUMama on March 20, 2010 at 1:37 PM
No, I don’t think that’s right. That is the whole point of deem and pass. The Senate parliamentarian has said the lone senate bill has to have Obama’s signature for the Senate to act on reconciliation. But that means the senate bill itself will already be law.
Can someone else back me up here? (Although I really am hoping someone will tell me I’m wrong and back you up.)
RINO in Name Only on March 20, 2010 at 1:38 PM
RINO, Obama can’t sign the Senate bill by iteself. It has never passed the House. An amended version will have.
That is why they went this route over passing the Senate bill then reconciling it. They needed a guarantee that gave them an all or nothing outcome.
Chuck Schick on March 20, 2010 at 1:40 PM
It hasn’t passed yet, you’re right. But my understanding of the situation was this:
The whole point of “deem and pass” is that the vote on Sunday will simultaneously pass two separate bills: The original senate bill, and the reconciliation package. The first bill, the Senate bill itself, gets signed by Obama. The reconciliation package then gets passed to the Senate, which (according to the senate parliamentarian) is allowed to act on that package only after Obama signs the original senate bill into law.
True, this doesn’t give the house any guarantees that they won’t get stuck with the senate bill (which I think is what Hatch is trying to explain to wavering dems).
But what it does do is gives them a fig leaf, so they can say to their constituents “Hey, I voted for this amended bill that fixed all the dirty corrupt kickbacks from the senate bill. then, completely unexpectedly, and in a manner that no one could possibly have forseen, the senate decided not to overturn its own corrupt deals! I’m as shocked and outraged as you are, my esteemed constitutents! Alas, I wish there were more I could do. Oh well, at least I fought the good fight. “
RINO in Name Only on March 20, 2010 at 1:50 PM
RINO-
I think we are agreeing but misunderstanding each other.
This whole process is convoluted, which is why it’s probably going to collapse at some point.
Here’s my understanding. Deem and pass is completely legit, but to fuse things together that then pass all at once or pass the House then go to the Senate to pass or not.
What we have here has never been done-
1) The are passing an amendment on a bill they are passing at the same time- that’s completely illegitimate to begin with
2) They’re passing a rule saying both have been passed
3) One bill goes to the Senate, the other to Obama
4) SInce they passed a rule saying both are passed together, both need to be passed by the Senate before going to Obama. Their fates are now tied. If the Senate shears off part of what the House approves, then the rule the House voted for is invalidated as a whole, as one part of the bill was struck down, the remaining part has no actual tally of votes and cannot be considered passed by the House. Obama can sign it, but it will get struck down.
Chuck Schick on March 20, 2010 at 2:31 PM
Hmm. I’m a bit confused about which parts of this describe what the democrats are planning to do, and which parts describe what they have to do.
Are you saying
A) the Democrats are planning to pass both before they send the whole enchilada to Obama? This would contradict what the Senate parliamentarian.
B) the democrats constitutionally are required to send the whole enchilada to Obama as one package, but they are ignoring that fact and trying to do it piecemeal. In other words, they are trying to do exactly what I described, but it is unconstitutional for the reasons you described.
C) something else
Hmm, now that I’ve typed it out, I think your answer is probably B), but maybe I’ll ask anyway, since I’m so confused.
RINO in Name Only on March 20, 2010 at 2:45 PM
RINO-
Doesn’t matter now. Deem and pass is out per WaPost
They are going to vote in this order
1) Rules
2) Amendments
3) Senate bill
Obama can pass the Senate bill free and clear now.
The only bright spot is that there are alot more taxes in the amendments like 4% capital gains taxes. Hopefully it will die.
Not sure how this changes the votes.
Chuck Schick on March 20, 2010 at 2:49 PM
OK, looks like this is all academic now: They are going for the senate bill itself.
RINO in Name Only on March 20, 2010 at 2:52 PM
And to your question- I think the whole thing was a hail mary. Obama was going to sign something he shouldn’t legally be able to, it would be a rallying point for the Senate, the whole thing would pass at some point with scaled back changes and they’d take their legal lumps but chances were they were OK and it remains law.
Chuck Schick on March 20, 2010 at 3:03 PM
Everyone talking about how “they don’t have the votes” and sounding optimistic that this won’t actually pass, that the people don’t want it, on and on, remind me of the people saying there was no way Obama would get elected, that the numbers weren’t there, and so forth.
The fact of the matter is we’ve passed the point of no return in this society. The MSM dominates the average American, despite the blogosphere, they’ve got the leftist meme covered from the nightly news to TV shows and movies. Conservatives really don’t have what it takes to stand up and get ugly, get dirty, most feel to “above it all’, to stoop to such measures. We aren’t, by nature, activist types, don’t show for protests on a truly large scale.
It’s all just counter to our nature, we aren’t good at hardball, talking to the average man in terms they will both feel and understand, and the left knows it.
flyfishingdad on March 20, 2010 at 3:45 PM
Luckily that’s not the case. To manipulate the CBO scoring, the benefits don’t start for years, just like with the Catastrophic Health Care Bill. The pair will go on for four years before the goodies start, which make this monstrosity repealable.
LarryD on March 20, 2010 at 3:47 PM
Agreed, this was the clear net-outcome of the discussions that with 41 votes they could (and would) enforce the Byrd rules and adjust/remove/parse the bill and all of its clauses for financial effect and rule against anything that didn’t fit properly (which they already knew, a lot of it doesn’t).
As soon as the bill changes, in even a minor way; it has to go back to the House, the Senate bill is not “deemed passed” and they’re stuck looking to see if the 216 in the House are still ok with the Senate parsing of the House Amendments to the Senate version of the House bill… or if we add another layer to this clause and it becomes the House changes to the Senate Parsing of the House amendment to the Senate version of the House bill.
Heck, the title of this thing might eventually get to 2000 pages in and of itself.
gekkobear on March 20, 2010 at 5:34 PM
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