Dems in disarray in Rules committee?

posted at 1:11 pm on March 20, 2010 by Ed Morrissey

It’s perhaps the most jarring bit of irony in the entire health-care debate.  The House Rules committee is meeting as I write this post, attempting to put together the package that will govern the reconciliation bill to a floor vote sometime tomorrow.  As Byron York reports, though, the Democrats on the committee seem to have hit a problem with … the rules:

Here is the problem: The Senate has passed its HCR bill. If the House passes the same bill, it goes on to the president; once he signs it, the bill becomes law. But House Democrats, when they vote for the Senate bill using the “Deem & Pass” dodge, also want to simultaneously pass a package of amendments to the law. Except HCR will not, at that point, be law. It will only become law when the president signs it. Congress can amend the law — it does so all the time — but can it amend something that isn’t law?

Which is where Democrats are tripping up. Passage of their HCR proposal should be very simple: Senate passes it, House passes it, president signs it. But House Democrats are terrified of voting for the unpopular bill, so they hope to pass it by “Deem & Pass,” in which they will vote, not for the bill, but for a rule that both deems the Senate bill to have passed and, in the same vote, passes the package of amendments. So House Democrats will have two fig leaves: 1) they didn’t vote directly for the Senate bill, and 2) they voted to simultaneously amend — to “fix” — the Senate bill.

The problem is the sequence. Can the House vote to amend something that isn’t the law, as the Senate bill will not be law before the president’s signature? The Rules Committee meeting turned into mass confusion when Democratic Rep. Henry Waxman said, “We’re not going to ‘deem’ the bill passed. We’re going to pass the Senate bill…I would be against the idea of ‘deeming’ something — we either pass it or we don’t.”

To Republican ears, that sounded as if Waxman was speaking out in support of a direct vote on the Senate plan. “I hope we’re making news here,” said Republican Rep. Joe Barton. If so, Barton added, “Praise the Lord!” Other Democrats jumped in to say that no, there would not be a direct vote on the Senate bill.

The Waxman comment did make news, but as York notes, the other Democrats quickly squelched the idea of taking a separate vote.  However, the problem will be when this bill gets challenged in the courts, especially if the Senate reconciliation effort fails.  As Republican committee member Joe Barton pointed out, a failure of reconciliation in the Senate would mean that the bill would become law without ever getting an up-or-down vote in the House on the final version of the bill:

“I want everybody to understand that if, in fact, the decision is made by your leadership to pass this under what is called ‘self-executing’ or the ‘deem-and-pass,’ you’re not going to have a vote on a bill that passed the Senate Christmas Eve and came to the House.  And if the rule is passed, that bill will be ‘deemed passed’ even though there will be no vote and no debate on the substantive policy differences between the House and the Senate.

“I am told that on its own, the bill the Senate passed would not pass the House because there are not 216 in your conference to pass it. So we start off, if that’s the way you guys decide to do it, with deeming something passed that no one in the House really gets to debate or have an up-or-down vote on. And then we debate perfunctorily for an hour or maybe two hours, depending on how much time you’re going to give us, a reconciliation package where the only people that have really seen it in depth are those distinguished members of the Budget Committee.

“Since 1983, which is the year before I was elected, the Senate has only one time accepted a reconciliation package that came out of the House first. If the last 30 years are relevant, you’re probably not going to get the Senate to agree to the changes that have been made in the reconciliation. And if that happens, Madam Chairwoman, the president is going to sign a bill which the House never voted up or down and that makes revolutionary changes in the way our country’s health care system has heretofore functioned.”

Will any of this dissuade Democrats from using Demon Pass?  Most likely not, but it doesn’t make it any easier for this to pass muster in a court challenge.  As I wrote this week, the Marshall Field precedent makes that an uphill climb, but the more Democrats monkey with the process, the more they invite the courts to intervene afterward.

Blowback

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I wonder if this is what the folks in Honduras felt like last year when their leaders were trying to circumvent THEIR constitution. Sigh.

blueknight99 on March 20, 2010 at 1:15 PM

She looks like Helen Thomas about 50 years ago.

1921 C DRUM on March 20, 2010 at 1:15 PM

Will any of this dissuade Democrats from using Demon Pass? Most likely not, but it doesn’t make it any easier for this to pass muster in a court challenge. As I wrote this week, the Marshall Field precedent makes that an uphill climb, but the more Democrats monkey with the process, the more they invite the courts to intervene afterward.

And because they are Progressives – Leftest, they will subcomb to every temptation to circumvent the Constitution. This will leave a stain and a bad taste behind in it’s wake. All the generations coming up will get a lesson on just what a “Leftest” really is – Anti Constitutionalists.

Dr Evil on March 20, 2010 at 1:17 PM

Louise Slaughter – Now we know what Pelosi would look like without botox.

RobCon on March 20, 2010 at 1:17 PM

They don’t have the votes…!

Seven Percent Solution on March 20, 2010 at 1:19 PM

Putting the “laughter” in “Slaughter.”

Christien on March 20, 2010 at 1:20 PM

I saw this comment at Riehl World View and I think it is good advice:

It may be a moot point. FDL’s latest whip count is 214 no to 208 yes, 215 if the last undecided member of Stupak’s bloc, Kathy Dalkemper, goes no (as will certainly happen now), meaning we have 1 just more no vote to KILL THE BILL.

Here are the final true undecideds:
Zack Space
Earl Pomeroy
Solomon Ortiz
Mike Michaud
Bill Foster

GET ON THE PHONES NOW!
Any two of these six mean we win

Posted by: Lightwave

Mr. Joe on March 20, 2010 at 1:20 PM

Thank God for Texas Cowboys!

LSUMama on March 20, 2010 at 1:20 PM

These people are hilarious. I don’t think they can pass this bill.

joe_doufu on March 20, 2010 at 1:21 PM

So the “Slaughter Rule” hasn’t even been WRITTEN yet? What a bunch of morons….

TeresainFortWorth on March 20, 2010 at 1:22 PM

Jon Voight is speaking truth at the rally outside the would-be Death Chamber!

I only wish some of our so-called “opinion leaders” (that would be Rash Fatblob, Levin, Palin, et al) would speak as boldly.

Someone had to say it publicly: Osama Obama is insane. He must be stopped before his insanity spreads farther.

MrScribbler on March 20, 2010 at 1:22 PM

The constitutional process is that the house proposes a bill and votes on it to go to the Senate, the Senate amends the bill and sends it back to the house.

There, the House votes on the Senate Bill as is or amends the bill and sends it back to the Senate for its final vote.

So what we have here is a bill that the House doesn’t like which means the bill isn’t acceptable.

Parliamentary procedures aside… the bill is NOT acceptable to the House. The House does NOT approve of the bill in its current form.

How is it in anyway constitutional to allow that bill to be turned into a law without a vote or without going back to the Senate as amended?

… and why am I suddenly reminded of the 2000 elections?

Skywise on March 20, 2010 at 1:22 PM

Civil disobedience follows Demon Pass….

d1carter on March 20, 2010 at 1:22 PM

Poster parody: The Slaughter-Rule Massacre http://optoons.blogspot.com/2010/03/slaughter-rule-massacre.html

Mervis Winter on March 20, 2010 at 1:23 PM

I wonder if this is what the folks in Honduras felt like last year when their leaders were trying to circumvent THEIR constitution. Sigh.

blueknight99 on March 20, 2010 at 1:15 PM

You mean OUR leaders… Remember Obama supported AND ACTIVELY ASSISTED in their coup…

Skywise on March 20, 2010 at 1:23 PM

Has Slaughter brought up the sob story about the constituent who was so poor she had to wear her dead sister’s dentures yet?

Wethal on March 20, 2010 at 1:24 PM

So the democrats declare the bill has passed congress, the president signs the bill and declares it law, the republicans claim it didn’t pass congress, and the constitution says the president can not sign anything into law unless it passes congress.

So does the supreme court adjudicate a dispute between factions in congress? If the court goes down that road, where does it end?

Skandia Recluse on March 20, 2010 at 1:24 PM

DanFosterNRO Hastings: \”There ain\’t no rules here, we\’re trying to accomplish something. . .We make \’em up as we go along.\”

We noticed… and I hope the courts notice this comment…

ninjapirate on March 20, 2010 at 1:24 PM

Democrats:
* Weak on Defense,
* Weak on the Constitution, and
* Weak on Liberty

Fool us once, shame on you. After this, if this breed of Dems is ever again elected to national office, shame on us.

petefrt on March 20, 2010 at 1:25 PM

Some people should just never be in the ‘spot light’…

Slaughter to Pelosi: “I’ll show you mine if you show me yours…”

Pelosi: “OK…

…Eeeewwwwwwww!

Seven Percent Solution on March 20, 2010 at 1:25 PM

The Devil is not only in the details

The following outlines some of the biggest changes:

INDIVIDUAL MANDATE: The Senate bill requires all Americans to get health insurance or pay a penalty. Under the reconciliation bill, individuals who don’t purchase insurance would be subject to a fine of $325 in 2015 and $695 in 2016, compared with $495 and $750 in the original Senate bill. Individuals may be subject to a charge equal to as much as 2.5 percent of their income in 2016, if the total is greater than the flat payment, a change from 2 percent in the Senate version.

EXPANDING COVERAGE: With changes made by the reconciliation bill, 32 million uninsured Americans will be covered by a health plan, the Congressional Budget Office said yesterday. That means that 92 percent of all residents, or 95 percent excluding illegal immigrants, would have insurance in 2019, the nonpartisan agency said.

About 15 percent of U.S. residents, or some 46 million, lacked insurance in 2008, according to the U.S. Census Bureau.

HELPING SENIORS AFFORD MEDICINES: The reconciliation bill builds on the Senate measure to help close a gap, known as the doughnut hole, in coverage for prescription drugs for patients in the Medicare program for the elderly. Part of it is funded by the government and part by the pharmaceutical industry, which in June agreed to spend as much as $80 billion over 10 years.

TAXES: Already in the Senate bill, a higher Medicare payroll tax will be assessed on individuals who make more than $200,000 a year or families with annual income of more than $250,000. The reconciliation bill includes an additional 3.8 percent Medicare tax on unearned income such as dividends on these high earners.

The reconciliation bill would also scale back the Senate’s planned tax on so-called Cadillac, high-end insurance plans. Labor unions said the levy would affect too many workers; the reconciliation bill reduces the revenue from the tax by 80 percent by raising the thresholds at which it would apply. The measure also delays the tax until 2018.

INDUSTRY FEES: The reconciliation bill converts $20 billion in fees that the Senate planned to raise from medical device makers such as Natick, Massachusetts-based Boston Scientific Corp. into a 2.9 percent excise tax on certain devices. The revenue would be the same, with a delay on the tax until 2013.

EMPLOYER MANDATE: Under the Senate bill, if an employer with more than 50 employees doesn’t offer coverage and has just one employee who qualifies for a new tax credit, the company must pay a fee for every full-time employee on its roster. The reconciliation bill raises the penalty to $2,000 from $750, though it subtracts the first 30 employees from the calculation.

ABORTION FUNDING: The reconciliation bill doesn’t address the issue of abortion and therefore may lead to the defection of some anti-abortion Democrats in the House who say the Senate bill doesn’t do enough to ensure federal funds aren’t used for the procedure. Top congressional Democrats say the legislation already preserves the ban on federal funding.

STUDENT-LOAN REVAMP: The reconciliation bill adds a House- passed measure to revamp the college student-loan program. The plan would end subsidies to lenders such as SLM Corp., commonly known as Sallie Mae, and instead have all students borrow directly from the federal government.

William Amos on March 20, 2010 at 1:26 PM

Rules? This. Is. Congress! [Daniel Foster]

Yes, Democratic Rep. Alcee Hastings (Fla.) just said this in the most powerful committee of the United States House of Representatives. The people’s house:

“There ain’t no rules here, we’re trying to accomplish something. . . .All this talk about rules. . . .When the deal goes down . . . we make ‘em up as we go along.”

NRO

Hastings was a federal judge until he was impeached (for corrupution I think). Then he got elected to Congress…

Wethal on March 20, 2010 at 1:26 PM

If the courts get involved, they’ll be deemed (ahem!) as ‘radical’ and all else the Dems want to say. The MSM will carry so much water for its Party they won’t have arms enough to carry the ball.

This Health Control mess is basically going the way of the abortion debate: a never-ending war of point/counter-point, another endless battle of attrition. It seems the last man standing is the winner.

You would think we’d have learned about the slavery issue during the 1850s.

No wonder the schools no longer teach history.

Liam on March 20, 2010 at 1:27 PM

Pelousi is bluffing like a pro poker player. I think she feels like she can con her own party. The only hope we have is if self preservation wins the day. Is no one in Congress looking out the windows at the Capitol? Are they all this delusional?

LSUMama on March 20, 2010 at 1:29 PM

Here is the problem: The Senate has passed its HCR bill. If the House passes the same bill, it goes on to the president; once he signs it, the bill becomes law…

The End.

forest on March 20, 2010 at 1:29 PM

I wonder if this is what the folks in Honduras felt like last year when their leaders were trying to circumvent THEIR constitution. Sigh.

blueknight99 on March 20, 2010 at 1:15 PM

This whole thing makes the idea of moving to Honduras even more appealing.

Daggett on March 20, 2010 at 1:29 PM

So, they said that we would have 72 hours (which is not enough) to read and understand the bill, but they are still making the bill right now. We only have had the shell for 72 hours.

Their clock is a sham.
The bill is a sham.
The “debate” is a sham.
The “vote” is a sham.

And if it passes, it’s unconstitutional?

The Democratic party is committing sepuku. I just pray that they don’t take The Republic with them.

Theophile on March 20, 2010 at 1:30 PM

The problem is the sequence. Can the House vote to amend something that isn’t the law, as the Senate bill will not be law before the president’s signature?

This is what Mark Levin said will be the basis for his lawsuit. There is no law to amend until after the President signs it.

ladyingray on March 20, 2010 at 1:30 PM

Have you seen my sisters teeth ?

borntoraisehogs on March 20, 2010 at 1:31 PM

“. . .you’re probably not going to get the Senate to agree to the changes that have been made in the reconciliation. And if that happens, Madam Chairwoman,the president is going to sign a bill which the House never voted up or down.”

And that is not only unconstitutional and illegal, it’s an impeachable offense.

Emperor Norton on March 20, 2010 at 1:31 PM

Wethal on March 20, 2010 at 1:26 PM

Yup, Alcee was impeached by the Senate as a Federal judge. He is a thug.

d1carter on March 20, 2010 at 1:33 PM

So does the supreme court adjudicate a dispute between factions in congress? If the court goes down that road, where does it end?

Skandia Recluse on March 20, 2010 at 1:24 PM

1> The court HAS to get involved here. I just realized why Obama made the “I don’t follow the procedural rules”… It’s legal cover. This is collusion between the executive and legislative branches. Deeming an unacceptable bill into law is, at the very least, constitutionally questionable.

2> Where does it end? Don’t know. This sort of coup has never occurred in the American congress. Cheating has always occurred in the process before (that’s why the founding fathers setup the checks and balances system the way they did) but there’s always been some modicum of bipartisan support behind it.

Skywise on March 20, 2010 at 1:33 PM

<blockquote They don’t have the votes…!

Seven Percent Solution on March 20, 2010 at 1:19 PM

That’s what I’m thinking.(and praying it stays that way)
If they did,we would have woken up to news that they’d already voted.

tehd on March 20, 2010 at 1:34 PM

Ms. Slaughter is trying to put some “teeth” into the demon pass procedure.

Vince on March 20, 2010 at 1:35 PM

UPDATE: Politico confirms no deal coming between Stupak and Pelosi http://bit.ly/bDYunI

At Least 25,000 Protesters Descend on Congress to Protest Obamacare; UPDATE: Pics Added From Rally http://bit.ly/9ESUp9

New Article: Obama on Obamacare: Most Misleading Presidential Speech in American History? http://bit.ly/bZSiQc

Anti-Harkonnen Freedom Fighter on March 20, 2010 at 1:35 PM

Of course Rahm will always be closing, but they are weak the other way. If the momentum shifts enough, they will gradually start falling away too and Obama loses the opportunity to ram this home.

This can still be beat. It need not be the Alamo, but Bastone, with public sentiment as Patton.

Mr. Joe on March 20, 2010 at 1:35 PM

/close tags

tehd on March 20, 2010 at 1:36 PM

But House Democrats are terrified of voting for the unpopular bill, so they hope to pass it by “Deem & Pass,” in which they will vote, not for the bill, but for a rule that both deems the Senate bill to have passed…

A distinction without a difference.

Pass either and they will be relegated to the office of dog catcher in their individual cities and towns.

Am I the only one that feels as though they’ve been threatened in a barroom, are in the middle of an adrenaline rush just waiting for the other guy to throw the first punch?

turfmann on March 20, 2010 at 1:36 PM

Slaughter to Helen Thomas: “I’ll show you mine if you show me yours…”

Helen Thomas: “OK…. Eeeeewwwwwww!”

Seven Percent Solution on March 20, 2010 at 1:37 PM

“..borrow directly from the Federal Government” Those words should strike fear into the hearts of all who read it.

jeanie on March 20, 2010 at 1:37 PM

They don’t have the votes…!

Seven Percent Solution on March 20, 2010 at 1:19 PM

7%, I hope and pray you are right. Your comments have been giving me hope everytime I read them. ( :

yoda on March 20, 2010 at 1:37 PM

Of course Rahm will always be closing, but they are weak the other way. If the momentum shifts enough, they will gradually start falling away too and Obama loses the opportunity to rahm this home.

This can still be beat. It need not be the Alamo, but Bastone, with public sentiment as Patton.

Mr. Joe on March 20, 2010 at 1:39 PM

The Dems are counting on our passivity. But, we have tactics.

If this mess passes, file suit at the lowest level of the Federal Court system. Then appeal upon appeal, constantly challenging in lower courts specific provisions one after another in a cascade of disputes.

Bog down SCOTUS, in the end, so they get so tired of it they either approve the whole thing or make it dump like a computer in meltdown.

We might lose in the end, but it’s going to take a long time to reach the end.

Liam on March 20, 2010 at 1:39 PM

Why can’t they just deem that the president signed it. /sarc

*sigh

Why can’t we deem that they all have never been elected.

pappy on March 20, 2010 at 1:40 PM

OT/ Fox News Channel and Fox Business Channel have been turned off here in northwest Wisconsin by Charter. Every other channel is broadcasting. Hmmmmmmmm.

scorpio9 on March 20, 2010 at 1:42 PM

They have a problem. If they deem and pass, it goes back to the senate. If they vote straight up (which I think was the plan all along, i.e. slight of hand) they may be under the threshold. I think they would rather have the senate version verses nothing to be honest. Ether way, should it pass, they will guarantee at least the Senate version. A straight up vote will surely pass muster as far as procedure/protocol goes. Deem and pass is but a prayer that the amendments will pass the senate reconciliation in the exact word for word same language. If the senate fails, then thier original version becomes law, even though the House never actually debated it or voted on it directly. Wow. And the minute all hell breaks loose and Dems who voted for deem an pass try to say they never voted on the senate version, well, only one of two things. They either say they never voted on it, which in effect leads to just how did it become law then, or they tuck thier tails between their legs and put a scarlet letter on their foreheads forever because this is the biggest sucker bet they have ever been duped into. Even then, the law will be challenged for its constitutional merits by states, perhaps even individuals forced for the first time ever to \”buy\” something just for the sake of being born here. But wait. Then you have elections where Repubs/Tea party may win overwhemingly, and use the same exact tactics to to legislate, with only BO\’s veto power to check (and MSNBC/CNN and SEIU). I can\’t believe they dont see the writing on the wall.

CriticalUpdate on March 20, 2010 at 1:42 PM

I just pray that they don’t take The Republic with them.

Theophile on March 20, 2010 at 1:30 PM

I fear the Republic is already on it’s last legs.

Even if they fail this time, they will continue down this path with even more fury – and they only have to win once.

Rebar on March 20, 2010 at 1:43 PM

Here’s some info on “the Marshall Field decision” to which Ed referred:

http://belowthebeltway.com/2010/03/16/why-the-slaughter-solution-will-probably-be-allowed-to-stand/

I’d be interested in Ed’s and others’ thoughts on how “strong” this really is (not a lawyer, don’t play one on TV…).

Lockstein13 on March 20, 2010 at 1:43 PM

Why can’t we deem that they all have never been elected.

pappy on March 20, 2010 at 1:40 PM

As long as the “deem” solution is being discussed why can’t we “deem” the statists as impeached?

farright on March 20, 2010 at 1:43 PM

Yup, Alcee was impeached by the Senate as a Federal judge. He is a thug.

d1carter on March 20, 2010 at 1:33 PM

Actually it is the House that votes to impeach. The Senate votes to remove from office.

Unlike Dear Liar, we do care about the process.

rbj on March 20, 2010 at 1:44 PM

I guess the Founders weren’t so stupid after all.

And it seems that Obozo’s slap at the five Justices may have been more ill-considered than first imagined.

This will make for an interesting chapter fifty years from now.

CPT. Charles on March 20, 2010 at 1:45 PM

Then you have elections where Repubs/Tea party may win overwhemingly, and use the same exact tactics to legislate…

CriticalUpdate on March 20, 2010 at 1:42 PM

Which the Dems will say is ‘unfair’, while the MSM and trolls here will agree with (facts be damned).

But it’s a wrong precedent to establish. AS a Conservative, I wouldn’t want to see Conservatives trying tricks and word games. I want my government straight-up, by the Constitution.

This ploy is the embodiment of the liberal concept of a ‘living Constitution’. But who would want to play Poker according to ‘living’ rules?

Liam on March 20, 2010 at 1:46 PM

The constitutional process is that the house proposes a bill and votes on it to go to the Senate, the Senate amends the bill and sends it back to the house.

There, the House votes on the Senate Bill as is or amends the bill and sends it back to the Senate for its final vote.

So what we have here is a bill that the House doesn’t like which means the bill isn’t acceptable.

Parliamentary procedures aside… the bill is NOT acceptable to the House. The House does NOT approve of the bill in its current form.

How is it in anyway constitutional to allow that bill to be turned into a law without a vote or without going back to the Senate as amended?

… and why am I suddenly reminded of the 2000 elections?

Skywise on March 20, 2010 at 1:22 PM

I was going to bring up the same issue.
What I don’t understand is why rush and the others haven’t made this point?

BruceB on March 20, 2010 at 1:47 PM

I think Pelosi has the votes for a straight vote, and the rest is drama.

AnninCA on March 20, 2010 at 1:47 PM

Oh boy, a guy at the tea party just suggested (out loud) that people “bang down the doors”.

joe_doufu on March 20, 2010 at 1:48 PM

Think Obama regrets slagging the SCOTUS publicly at his State of the Union yet?

Little Boomer on March 20, 2010 at 1:48 PM

Priceless.

“Mr Chief Justice, members of the court. We come before you to question the legality of a law passed only by the Senate of the United States and signed by the President. The law was never voted on in the House. Isn’t something missing?”

GarandFan on March 20, 2010 at 1:49 PM

I think Pelosi has the votes for a straight vote, and the rest is drama.

AnninCA on March 20, 2010 at 1:47 PM

While you tend to be logical and analytical, you also have a tendency to be wrong, Ann.

Liam on March 20, 2010 at 1:51 PM

Obama is so stupid that I think he thought slapping around the justices would give him power over the Supreme Court. He was using Chicago tactics, and I hope it will backfire in his ugly face.

mobydutch on March 20, 2010 at 1:51 PM

BREAKING 1:35 p.m. – Majority Leader Steny Hoyer told reporters on his way out of the Capitol that he does not know for certain that the executive order will be issued but confirmed also that it is being discussed.

“The intent is obviously to express what we have said all along, that we believe the language that has been included in both bills seeks to accomplish, and that is that there will no use of public funds for abortion,” he said.

Walking out the east front of the Capitol, the throng of reporters surrounding Hoyer began to come close to gaggles of protesters standing around the Capitol (most of the protesters are on the other side).

Aides told Hoyer he should get into a black government SUV that pulled up, as protesters yelled at the majority leader.

“Listen to your constituents,” one man said.

“You’re a liar!” another man yelled

“He better get in that car,” another woman said.

BREAKING 1:16 p.m. – Speaker Pelosi and Democratic leadership are huddling in a meeting off the House floor, and pro-choice lawmakers say the detente with pro-life Democrats is over.

But Pelosi has said that President Obama might issue an executive order to clarify abortion language, a spokesman told The Daily Caller.

Daily Caller.

An executive order, which can be rescinded at any time, would “clarify,” i.e., amend, the abortion language in a statute? Legislation passed by Congress amended by executive order? Is this Venezuela?

Wethal on March 20, 2010 at 1:52 PM

Ann Althouse had an interesting post on this. I think there is real debate as to the legality of all this, the Democrats might be better off not passing it at all.

Terrye on March 20, 2010 at 1:53 PM

Think Obama regrets slagging the SCOTUS publicly at his State of the Union yet?
Little Boomer on March 20, 2010 at 1:48 PM

His little comment may end up biting him in the bu!! if this scam goes through.

yoda on March 20, 2010 at 1:53 PM

It will only become law when the president signs it. Congress can amend the law — it does so all the time — but can it amend something that isn’t law?

No, that why and because its UN-Constitutional.

A person who goes to a bar and wants to be drunk, are at the bar because they want to be lied to and they get drunk at the first sip.

Democrats want the lie and they’re already drunk with power.

Speakup on March 20, 2010 at 1:53 PM

Obama is so stupid that I think he thought slapping around the justices would give him power over the Supreme Court. He was using Chicago tactics, and I hope it will backfire in his ugly face.

mobydutch on March 20, 2010 at 1:51 PM

The constitutional law professor forgot that the justices have lifetime tenure. Obama has at the most, eight years in office. I like to think one of them sat there smiling to himself, “I’ll still be on the Supreme Court when you’re long gone.”

Wethal on March 20, 2010 at 1:54 PM

This is Venezuela!!!! The dictator has been exposed.

mobydutch on March 20, 2010 at 1:54 PM

Democrats want the lie and they’re already drunk with power.

Speakup on March 20, 2010 at 1:53 PM

Ah, but isn’t something akin to waterboarding a way to sober up a drunk?

Liam on March 20, 2010 at 1:55 PM

The executive order thing has really pissed me off. If Stupak falls for this there will be hell to pay. The fact that Nancy is still pursuing this tells me she doesn’t have the votes. It makes me sick to my stomach that they could pull such a stunt like this.

sandee on March 20, 2010 at 1:56 PM

I have worked for and with many liberal businesspeople. Pretty much all of them ran organizations funded largely by the government. This is how they roll.

They’re disorganized and usually unable to give a good accounting of whatever plans they are making (how they should be implemented and what evidence they have that they might be successful). They don’t worry about outcomes but rather believe that by implementing whatever rainbow unicorn plan they have things will just work out magically. If you question them they either have no coherent answers and if you challenge them they get confrontational. They are often more than willing to break rules (even their own) and cheat because their motivation is pure and their cause important.

But the government money keeps flowing, so they never have to change. They rarely accomplish their goals, but they lobby and lobby to keep the cash flowing.

29Victor on March 20, 2010 at 1:56 PM

Father in Heaven, fortify us during these times of trouble.

True_King on March 20, 2010 at 1:56 PM

Our Congress looks like a Chinese fire drill. Can we still say that, is it PC?

Kissmygrits on March 20, 2010 at 1:56 PM

Our Congress looks like a Chinese fire drill. Can we still say that, is it PC?

Kissmygrits on March 20, 2010 at 1:56 PM

I’m thinking more of a Mongolian Cluster Frak

Liam on March 20, 2010 at 1:58 PM

When ObamaCare finally passes, the United States of America will be a communist country. Everyone on this site (trolls excepted) will then be deemed a Political Dissident, a Counter-Revolutionary and an Enemy Of The People. When it comes time to hand out National Identity Cards, I doubt they will be given to Enemies Of The People.

While pondering that little piece of news, hum the theme to Cops, “Whatcha gonna do when they come for you, Bad Boy?”

lonesomecharlie on March 20, 2010 at 2:01 PM

I wonder if this is what the folks in Honduras felt like last year when their leaders were trying to circumvent THEIR constitution. Sigh.

blueknight99 on March 20, 2010 at 1:15 PM

I can say with fair certainty that the answer to your question is No they didn’t. If memory serves what they did was to send a portion of their military to escort their president for life wannabe to the border. Then they stood firm against the opinions of a lot of governments including the government of The Won and followed their Constitution. I hope they felt pride in their decision and their actions.

Oldnuke on March 20, 2010 at 2:04 PM

I was going to bring up the same issue.
What I don’t understand is why rush and the others haven’t made this point?

BruceB on March 20, 2010 at 1:47 PM

I don’t follow the “WE NEED IT RIGHT NOW” strategy either. They’ve been doing this EVERY TIME it comes up for a vote. When they did it last year (Gotta be on my desk by July) I assumed it was because they wanted to push as much of their leftist agenda through as fast as possible before the 2010 elections.

Now? I would think you’d want a solid procedural basis for your radical law to ensure acceptance among the public and to show your good intentions. This strategy doesn’t do that. It’s hard core used car sales techniques that are in play here.

Clueless advisors? Something more sinister? Can’t say. I can say it’s not good governance nor good leadership. I will say it’s opened my eyes over the last several months as to certain other political systems over the ages and why they came about. I used to think they were designed to guide rational discourse but they’re not…They’re all control systems over this sort of emotional and irrational leadership.

No rational leadership *working within the bounds of government* throws their country into a parliamentary crisis to get their way.

Skywise on March 20, 2010 at 2:07 PM

Fifty years from now the great-grandkids will be asking, ‘OMG, you voted these bozos into office’?

I’ll have to explain that it wasn’t me or the people I associate with, but I won’t have an answer when they say, ‘but you LET it happen. How could you?’

/futureshame

ConservativeTony on March 20, 2010 at 2:08 PM

I can say with fair certainty that the answer to your question is No they didn’t. If memory serves what they did was to send a portion of their military to escort their president for life wannabe to the border.
Oldnuke on March 20, 2010 at 2:04 PM

Their legislature did that.

Of course… they still HAD a functioning legislature that cared about their constitutional government at that point…

Skywise on March 20, 2010 at 2:09 PM

If 0bama gets this through with an executive order – that will be the first domino that will end by killing the Republic.

Rebar on March 20, 2010 at 2:11 PM

So this whole smoke and mirrors, do they not even have the 216 votes for the Slaughter Rule, Demon Pass “Solution”? Is that what they are trying to get the votes to DEEM this thing passed? I thought they were trying to get the votes to pass the Senate bill.

If they can’t even get the votes by skirting the rules, they are farther afield in this thing than I thought.

And how do you amend something at the same time that you pass it? You can’t do that. It has to be THE SAME language that goes to the President’s desk. I can see them passing the amendments as a SEPARATE BILL, but you can’t do it altogether or your null and void the passage of the Senate Bill being able to go from the House to iObama.

Finally, stupid question, but this bill is based on TAXATION of the people. Tax bills can ONLY be started in the House and go to the Senate, not the other way around. Just that point right there makes it unconstitutional… not even counting all the kabuki theatre they are trying to pull to get it out of the House.

UnderstandingisPower on March 20, 2010 at 2:11 PM

Gentlemen! This is a War Room ! There’ll be no fighting in here ! – Merkin Muffley (of Dr. Strangelove)

viking01 on March 20, 2010 at 2:11 PM

If 0bama gets this through with an executive order – that will be the first domino that will end by killing the Republic.

Rebar on March 20, 2010 at 2:11 PM

Or in the restoring of our Republic by revolution. One of the two.

UnderstandingisPower on March 20, 2010 at 2:12 PM

Of course… they still HAD a functioning legislature that cared about their constitutional government at that point…

Skywise on March 20, 2010 at 2:09 PM

Which is exactly my point. They did not feel like we do now. I’m pretty sure they were proud of their government. I certainly don’t feel proud of mine right now….do you?

Oldnuke on March 20, 2010 at 2:12 PM

Our Congress looks like a Chinese fire drill. Can we still say that, is it PC?

The preferred term today is “Asian fire drill.”

Emperor Norton on March 20, 2010 at 2:12 PM

Father in Heaven, fortify us during these times of trouble.

True_King on March 20, 2010 at 1:56 PM

Praying and lighting of virtual candles continues at:

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=usa

UnderstandingisPower on March 20, 2010 at 2:13 PM

Skandia Recluse on March 20, 2010 at 1:24 PM

Hard to say, as to what the Supremes do. But I think the larger picture right now is….do the dems risk demon passing this thing, and not getting their ammendments? If they were happy with this bill in it’s original form, from the Senate, they’d have passed it a long time ago. Thus their ammendments. If they don’t get those, do they still have 216? If Nancy just deems it, she’s wasted a lot of peoples time, and energy, and will have to face her libs and say….well….that’s it! I don’t think she’s ready to do that just yet.

capejasmine on March 20, 2010 at 2:17 PM

I can say with fair certainty that the answer to your question is No they didn’t. If memory serves what they did was to send a portion of their military to escort their president for life wannabe to the border. Then they stood firm against the opinions of a lot of governments including the government of The Won and followed their Constitution. I hope they felt pride in their decision and their actions.

Oldnuke on March 20, 2010 at 2:04 PM

That sounds awesome. Can we have the Army escort Nancy Pelosi to the Mexican border and dump her on the other side? Please?

Theophile on March 20, 2010 at 2:17 PM

Rep. Ryan is once again the smartest person in the room. I want to vote for him. For something. Is Louise Slaughter is dumb as she allows herself to appear?

DrStock on March 20, 2010 at 2:18 PM

Which is exactly my point. They did not feel like we do now. I’m pretty sure they were proud of their government. I certainly don’t feel proud of mine right now….do you?

Oldnuke on March 20, 2010 at 2:12 PM

I’m with ya. I am not proud right now, but even worse for me. These numbskulls want to run health care, when they box themselves in like this over the rules? Really? They really are that stupid???

capejasmine on March 20, 2010 at 2:19 PM

I was going to bring up the same issue.
What I don’t understand is why rush and the others haven’t made this point?

BruceB on March 20, 2010 at 1:47 PM

Mark Levin has and it is the basis for his pending lawsuit. The House is attempting to amend a law that isn’t a law by using DemonPass. That is different from the other times this deem and pass has been used, which was to amend an already existing law. There is a distinction to it.

ladyingray on March 20, 2010 at 2:20 PM

Rep. Ryan is once again the smartest person in the room. I want to vote for him. For something. Is Louise Slaughter is dumb as she allows herself to appear?

DrStock on March 20, 2010 at 2:18 PM

I do believe she is. Why bother telling a story about a woman, and her dead sisters dentures, when dental care is not part of this bill? Smart power, lib style!

capejasmine on March 20, 2010 at 2:20 PM

I think Pelosi has the votes for a straight vote, and the rest is drama.

AnninCA on March 20, 2010 at 1:47 PM

Then why hasn’t she called the vote?

ladyingray on March 20, 2010 at 2:21 PM

The Voice of Reason

Demo reason, that is.

Speakup on March 20, 2010 at 2:22 PM

House Drops Deem and Pass? [Daniel Foster]

We’ve been baited. And here’s the switch, from a Washington Post news alert:

House Democratic leaders say they will take a separate vote on the Senate health care bill, rejecting an earlier, much-criticized strategy that would have permitted them to “deem” the measure passed without an explicit vote.

03/20 02:19 PM

Dropping Demonpass and going for straight vote. Is the executive order now the “cover” that Dems will use in the fall?

Wethal on March 20, 2010 at 2:22 PM

An executive order, which can be rescinded at any time, would “clarify,” i.e., amend, the abortion language in a statute? Legislation passed by Congress amended by executive order? Is this Venezuela?

Wethal on March 20, 2010 at 1:52 PM

A clear abuse of executive power. The Dems have the majority in both houses and the presidency yet still resort to trickery and are shredding our Constitution. This will NOT stand. Let the court cases begin!

TN Mom on March 20, 2010 at 2:23 PM

Democrats want the lie and they’re already drunk with power.

Speakup on March 20, 2010 at 1:53 PM

Ah, but isn’t something akin to waterboarding a way to sober up a drunk?

Liam on March 20, 2010 at 1:55 PM

The drunk tank, or maybe a reservation.

Speakup on March 20, 2010 at 2:24 PM

Now, THIS is getting mighty interesting:

House Democratic leaders say they will take a separate vote on the Senate health care bill, rejecting an earlier, much-criticized strategy that would have permitted them to “deem” the measure passed without an explicit vote.

03/20 02:19 PM

runner on March 20, 2010 at 2:24 PM

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