Breaking: Dems abandon deem-and-pass
posted at 3:35 pm on March 20, 2010 by Ed Morrissey
Good news or bad news? House Democrats unexpectedly dumped their Slaughter strategy of using deem-and-pass to push ObamaCare through a floor vote:
Top Democrats confirmed Saturday that the House would hold separate votes on the Senate healthcare bill and the reconciliation bill making fixes to it.
Rep. John Lewis (D-Ga.), one of the chief deputy whips, Rep. Melvin Watt (D-N.C.), and Rep. Eliot Engel (D-N.Y.), all of whom said that Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) won’t use the tactic of deem and pass for healthcare reform.
The move effectively kills the “deem and pass” strategy Democrats had been eyeing to make changes to the Senate bill through a rule on the bill, which at the same time would have deemed the original Senate healthcare bill to have passed the House.
The House appears set now to move toward an up-or-down vote on the Senate healthcare bill, as well as a separate, up-or-down vote on the series of changes to that bill. There will still be a vote on the rule, as there always is for a piece of legislation, though it will not package the two bills together.
So what does this mean? Hard to say. It could be that the heat on Democrats for using DemonPass made it too difficult to hold onto votes; Pelosi may have calculated that she’d net more votes if she split the bills properly. On the other hand, it could also mean that Pelosi has all the votes she needs and no longer needs the self-executing rule to get the bill out of the House.
If anyone wonders which it is, Major Garrett of Fox News helpfully tweeted that he believes that Pelosi now has the votes for tomorrow. If that’s too pessimistic for you, remember that DemonPass was intended to protect Dems opposed to the Cadillac Tax and other issues in the Senate bill. The politics of the bill have only become more fraught since they floated that strategy, which could mean that Democrats now think it won’t pass — and need a reason for its demise other than a failure of Pelosi to whip the count. I lean more towards the former than the latter, but until the vote gets taken (or doesn’t), we won’t know for sure which applies.
Blowback
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KILL THE BILL!
elduende on March 20, 2010 at 3:37 PM
Why is this not good news? I thought the House hated the Senate bill and would never pass it. Sure this is still the case, n’est ce pas?!
J.J. Sefton on March 20, 2010 at 3:37 PM
THEY DON’T HAVE THE VOTES…!!!
Seven Percent Solution on March 20, 2010 at 3:38 PM
Gosh, this whole Marxist transformation stuff sure is hard! -Ochavez
elduende on March 20, 2010 at 3:38 PM
Without the changes in the reconciliation package I don’t see how this passes. And realistically the reconciliation package will never be heard from again if and when this passes.
Without the bribes how does she get the votes? I don’t get it.
Kronos on March 20, 2010 at 3:38 PM
This most likely means that they have the votes to pass the senate bill directly. This thing will be law by Monday, sad to say.
neuquenguy on March 20, 2010 at 3:38 PM
This makes the House look bad, if that’s even possible anymore. They just had a vote the other day to affirm their right to use the Slaughter Rule, and now they bailed on it? These guys don’t know up from down…
joejm65 on March 20, 2010 at 3:38 PM
In any event, all this points to the fact they are running around like the proverbial beheaded chicken – which has yet to be f***ed.
Disarray like this can only bode well… I hope!
J.J. Sefton on March 20, 2010 at 3:39 PM
New Article: Obama on Obamacare: Most Misleading Presidential Speech in American History? http://bit.ly/bZSiQc
Anti-Harkonnen Freedom Fighter on March 20, 2010 at 3:39 PM
Oh, I hope not.
Bob's Kid on March 20, 2010 at 3:39 PM
I do not believe Fox News’ numbers. I think they were too chicken to use demon pass, but they don’t want a roll call vote. I don’t think they have the numbers, yet.
kingsjester on March 20, 2010 at 3:39 PM
If they’re replacing “deem and pass”, for an executive order – that’s even worse, far worse.
Rebar on March 20, 2010 at 3:40 PM
At the very least I think this strikes a death blow to using Deem and Pass to everything that comes down the pike (Immigration, etc.).
I’m still curious though. How can this be constitutional if it started in the Senate. Taxation bills MUST start in the House. What am I missing here? This seems so obvious.
UnderstandingisPower on March 20, 2010 at 3:40 PM
If they vote to amend the Senate bill, that amounts to declaring it dead because they don’t have 60 votes in the Senate anymore.
pedestrian on March 20, 2010 at 3:40 PM
To steal a phrase: Marx Madness
Denverslim on March 20, 2010 at 3:40 PM
Yippee. The “time for talking is over” POTUS is going to speak again. Thank goodness for the basketball game is over or we’d never get to hear him:
conservative pilgrim on March 20, 2010 at 3:40 PM
I don’t know if it is bad. I think after Nobama gives another speech to them, they will feel intense pressure to cave and vote for the poison.
andy85719 on March 20, 2010 at 3:40 PM
When watching Steny Hoyer make this announcement, it was written all over his face.
They still don’t have the votes.
Knucklehead on March 20, 2010 at 3:41 PM
This most likely means that they have the votes to pass the senate bill directly. This thing will be law by Monday, sad to say.
neuquenguy on March 20, 2010 at 3:38 PM
Then why didn’t they do that weeks ago?! Either they are thoroughly inept at procedure or this is all an elaborate Kabuki dance gone awfully wrong. THEY DO NOT HAVE THE VOTES.
J.J. Sefton on March 20, 2010 at 3:41 PM
A mental gymnastics test for Stupak and his gang.
BobMbx on March 20, 2010 at 3:41 PM
Gotta go watch the “We’re making (you) History” speech from Obama to the Democrat Caucus.
I hope they know the fixes they pass aren’t all going to get through the Senate either.
We’re getting the super crappy Senate bill.
forest on March 20, 2010 at 3:41 PM
DemonPass was defeated b/c the people rose up in anger, and also b/c of the efforts of REPUBLICANS… keep that in mind, the Repubs were responsive to the will of the people.
WordsMatter on March 20, 2010 at 3:42 PM
Nancy Pelosi is speaking right now. Does she have any idea what she is talking about right now. My ears are offended.
marmaran on March 20, 2010 at 3:42 PM
Well from what I understand, that vote was to block the use of Demon Pass. So they were just keeping their options open on that vote, not actually saying they’d go for the Demon Pass.
Kronos on March 20, 2010 at 3:42 PM
I hope the majority of America is seeing what is happening… Then the Dems can become the Whigs
phreshone on March 20, 2010 at 3:42 PM
Article I Sec 7 states: All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives.
Am I reading this wrong…this bill did not originate in the House.
truetexan on March 20, 2010 at 3:42 PM
Nancy is speaking now,and she seems pretty upbeat.
Ugly on March 20, 2010 at 3:42 PM
Pelosi also ordered that all kulaks be starved.
Akzed on March 20, 2010 at 3:42 PM
I fear this was their plan all along anyways. They have managed to sway many votes under the premise of cover by not voting directly on the Senate version. Job done, revert to the traditional method, pass the senate bill and swallow hard and pray the senate will pass your recon fixes. ALl I can say is DUPED. We will have the senate version of HCR with no traditional merging of the two chambers into one, except in the premise that somehow the senate will manage to pass the house fixes. Seems hardly plausible.
CriticalUpdate on March 20, 2010 at 3:42 PM
agree
cmsinaz on March 20, 2010 at 3:42 PM
Look, they don’t have the votes, they need Stupak and Obama giving yet another speech won’t change that.
elduende on March 20, 2010 at 3:43 PM
Stop it! While I appreciate your optimism, I remember another commentor who was so sure that Obama would not get elected that he banned himself after he turned out to be too optimistic!
Vince on March 20, 2010 at 3:43 PM
This pep rally is putrid
tehd on March 20, 2010 at 3:43 PM
Didn’t see you beat me to this question. Are we missing something?
truetexan on March 20, 2010 at 3:43 PM
The Dems are inviting unlimited amendments or filibuster?
Do they think if the Right obstructs this monstrosity that they’ll pay the price instead of them for ramming it down our throats?
Speakup on March 20, 2010 at 3:43 PM
Michelle tweets:
@michellemalkin
Obama to the Hill.
Work your reverse Midas touch.
sigh
pambi on March 20, 2010 at 3:44 PM
Stupak has already said his group won’t go for that. I’d guess they know an order can be rescinded at any time. Since coverage doesn’t start until 2013, Obama could wait until after the election and rescind it.
Wethal on March 20, 2010 at 3:44 PM
Nancys always upbeat. How many times has she said they have the votes?
sandee on March 20, 2010 at 3:44 PM
thanks to everyone who can watch them….can not watch it myself….
keep us in the loop :)
cmsinaz on March 20, 2010 at 3:44 PM
I knew it! They don’t want to risk having the Reconciliation Bill stalled in the Senate and they can’t send the Senate Bill to Obama for signature WITHOUT a vote from the House. Obama would violate his Constitutional duty if he signed it without the evidence it had met the Constitutional provision to become Law.
As was said before .. Who’s the dumbest Democrat in the House?
Our Founding Father’s Rule.. Nancy drools!
Texas Gal on March 20, 2010 at 3:44 PM
Vince on March 20, 2010 at 3:43 PM
You are talking about manly rash, my dear friend. He has his own blog. If they had the votes, we would not be going through all this chicanery.
kingsjester on March 20, 2010 at 3:45 PM
Seems a Dem or two took time out to read the Constitution.
Took ‘em long enough.
Liam on March 20, 2010 at 3:45 PM
cmsinaz on March 20, 2010 at 3:44 PM
I love a good train wreck.
Ugly on March 20, 2010 at 3:45 PM
Will it pass or won’t it pass? I have noooo idea.
One thing I do know: NOVEMBER IS GOING TO BE A FREAKING TIDAL WAVE.
laurakbarr on March 20, 2010 at 3:45 PM
they have the votes. Twitter is showing all these “no” votes switching to “yes” votes.
deidre on March 20, 2010 at 3:45 PM
The Senate took a bill that originated and passed in the House which did raise taxes, then replaced the language of that bill with the healthcare bill that they then passed.
I still think that this violates the spirit of that Constitutional rule (so its another potential lawsuit), but that’s how they are doing it this way.
KSgop on March 20, 2010 at 3:45 PM
Yah, saw this on the other post.
katy on March 20, 2010 at 3:45 PM
Vince your talking about Manly Rash. He was quite the cheerleader!
sandee on March 20, 2010 at 3:45 PM
Can I start drinking yet?
EZnSF on March 20, 2010 at 3:45 PM
But they are amending the bill first:
Thus, it will not be able to be signed into law until The Senate passes it with the amendments.
Thus, this will take a _lot_ longer than Monday unless not a single significant (read non-reconcilable amendment) passes.
Theophile on March 20, 2010 at 3:45 PM
Thanks from one Texan to another. THIS is what I’ve been SAYING all along!
UnderstandingisPower on March 20, 2010 at 3:46 PM
I was thinking the exact same thing! I can’t remember his name though. Mental cramp. Anyone else remember?
conservative pilgrim on March 20, 2010 at 3:46 PM
It started in the House. When the Senate voted, Harry amended the House bill to delete its contents. “Shell bill,” I think it’s called. Then he amended it again to insert the Senate bill’s language. Technically, it started in the House and refers to the original House number.
Wethal on March 20, 2010 at 3:46 PM
If they are amending the bill, doesn’t the Senate have to vote on it again?
Also, since the bill wouldn’t have been signed, this means that the Senate approving changes by Reconciliation is off the table at this point, right?
I think this means she doesn’t have the votes…
oddball on March 20, 2010 at 3:46 PM
Manly Rash. He said he’d self-ban if he was wrong.
Wethal on March 20, 2010 at 3:47 PM
Gawd, the Pelosi and Reid speeches are deplorable.
missl on March 20, 2010 at 3:47 PM
Thank you! I was racking my brain trying to remember his name.
conservative pilgrim on March 20, 2010 at 3:47 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbHTJSu_2Lk
Finally, the truth is admitted…
Keemo on March 20, 2010 at 3:47 PM
Dude, I really appreciate the work you do, but must you spam every single thread with this link?
notropis on March 20, 2010 at 3:47 PM
Has anyone ELSE noticed an OVER abundance of YELLOW today?
Yellow ties, yellow backdrops, yellow pantsuits !?!
OK, I may just be losing my mind, here … perhaps I’m not alone … sigh
pambi on March 20, 2010 at 3:47 PM
The American People thank you, Harry
/s
Ugly on March 20, 2010 at 3:47 PM
Mark Levin scared the crap out them. ;)
Captain Betty on March 20, 2010 at 3:47 PM
Cirque du democrats on fox. These people are insanely delusional. They believe their own lies. They think we believe their lies.
Skandia Recluse on March 20, 2010 at 3:48 PM
“STOP YELLING IN MY DOG’S EAR !”
heh
William Amos on March 20, 2010 at 3:48 PM
Any chance that can be challenged in the courts? This is just so corrupt!
truetexan on March 20, 2010 at 3:48 PM
oddball,
They are voting on an amendment bill and the senate bill…. Seems like if the senate bill passes, it will become law. Whether or not the Senate actually votes on the amendment bill will be moot. The House members banking on the senate bill are taking a risk
SSgtDC on March 20, 2010 at 3:48 PM
I think they pass the Senate bill. Brief pause while it’s whipped over to the WH for signature. Then they pass the reconciliation bill. Send reconciliation bill over to Senate, with a lot of hope that it will get through the Senate..and unchanged. If the Senate changes the reconciliation bill, it has to come back for another vote. Otherwise the original Senate bill is the law.
Wethal on March 20, 2010 at 3:48 PM
They must have the votes.
People are just not declaring their intent to vote ‘yes’ to avoid being hassled. They will probably vote in the middle of the night….sort of like being put under anesthesia for an operation. You wake up and Nancy Legosi’s face slowly comes into focus and she says “See..that didn’t hurt at all”
Itchee Dryback on March 20, 2010 at 3:49 PM
If this bill passes, discussions need to be opened in regards to organizing willing elements of the military and law enforcement to implement the intended use of the 2nd Amendment.
After all, the American Revolution was historic too.
jjrakman on March 20, 2010 at 3:49 PM
It’s all a farce, if they had the votes, they would vote on it and get it over with…
… Why would Obowma be making another plea to the Dems?
Watch out for some distraction, like them finally wheeling out the thawed body of Sen. Byrd, to proclaim a national tradgedy that has to put the vote off for another week.
Seven Percent Solution on March 20, 2010 at 3:49 PM
That is really despicable. Obama wants the American people to not be interested in the process, because when we pay attention we find out that they’re all crooks and sneaky liars!
conservative pilgrim on March 20, 2010 at 3:49 PM
This pep rally is a parade of reach arounds.
Over30 on March 20, 2010 at 3:49 PM
I doubt it. Congress can amend to its heart’s content. All that matters is that both houses pass identical bills.
Wethal on March 20, 2010 at 3:50 PM
I don’t think they’re that delusional. They’re power-mad.
Ugly on March 20, 2010 at 3:50 PM
Can’t keep up! Thanks!
truetexan on March 20, 2010 at 3:50 PM
I still think that Mother Superior,Nancy, would run to the king’s desk at this very minute if they had the votes.
mobydutch on March 20, 2010 at 3:50 PM
Shouldn’t the dems actually vote on the bill before they pat each other and themselves on the back for passing it?
darwin-t on March 20, 2010 at 3:50 PM
That’s the guy! I liked him and wish he was still around this blog.
Vince on March 20, 2010 at 3:51 PM
Seven Percent Solution on March 20, 2010 at 3:49 PM
Sorry, I was commenting on her blinking & denture licking.
Ugly on March 20, 2010 at 3:51 PM
I wondered if it was just a ruse, a distraction to get off message. For the past few days Republicans (except for Ryan) have been attacking the process instead of all the taxes and mandates in the bill.
Heywood U. Reedmore on March 20, 2010 at 3:51 PM
If they pass the sen bill and the pres signs it.It will have all of the deals still in it like the Neb.kickback the Louisiana purchase the Fla. deal and all the rest will become the law of the land.
thmcbb on March 20, 2010 at 3:51 PM
From ACE, thought it was pretty funny.
There’s more.
javamartini on March 20, 2010 at 3:52 PM
I think she has the votes. I believe the House Socialists are “steeled” now into passing this. To paraphrase a fool … their loins are “girded” for the coming backlash so why not pass it in the most Constitutional manner possible?
The good news for us …
The bill they’re going to pass has the Cornhusker Kickback and the Louisiana Purchase in it – and a whole lot of other buy-outs in it. It has the Cadillac taxes – it’s a very bad bill and now the fixes may not get done to it. There’s a lot of bad stuff in that bill that we can run on in November.
I’m actually not happy about this – I wanted the Dems to pass this in the most toxic fashion possible. Well, it’s not done yet so we’ll see.
HondaV65 on March 20, 2010 at 3:52 PM
Worse, they believe their own lies. No one is more delusional, and more to be feared, than a person who believes his own lies to be fact.
Liam on March 20, 2010 at 3:52 PM
NRO.
Apparently I was wrong.
They’re going to amend a bill before they vote on the bill? This appears to conflict with what the Senate parlimentarian said, but then he is the Senate’s parliamentarian, not the House’s.
Wethal on March 20, 2010 at 3:52 PM
Good point, but this is a pep rally, not a victory parade.
missl on March 20, 2010 at 3:52 PM
Don’t forget the tax on Cadillac health plans. That’ll make the unions happy.
Doughboy on March 20, 2010 at 3:53 PM
I think 2 thing have to be in place for both the Senate bill and the reconciliation bill to pass
1)Iron clad guarantee from 51 Senators that reconciliation bill will make it through the Senate
2) Pelosi found votes for the reconciliation without Stupak
runner on March 20, 2010 at 3:53 PM
*things*
runner on March 20, 2010 at 3:53 PM
Awesome
William Amos on March 20, 2010 at 3:53 PM
Someone needs to ask Nazi Pelosi if she now plans to burn the Reichstag.
viking01 on March 20, 2010 at 3:54 PM
Harry just said they DO have the votes ??
pambi on March 20, 2010 at 3:54 PM
If you’re interested in Manly Rash, you can find him here.
kingsjester on March 20, 2010 at 3:54 PM
Maybe I’m overly optimistic, but this is a good point…
ladyingray on March 20, 2010 at 3:54 PM
I want to believe.
RINO in Name Only on March 20, 2010 at 3:55 PM
Something doesn’t seem right. I don’t think the vote(s) happen tomorrow.
DrStock on March 20, 2010 at 3:55 PM
Itchee Dryback on March 20, 2010 at 3:55 PM
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