CBO’s ObamaCare analyses carry big uncertainties

posted at 10:12 am on March 19, 2010 by Ed Morrissey

Yesterday, the CBO released its initial analysis of the House reconciliation bill that amends the Senate version of ObamaCare.  While many people stressed that this was a “preliminary” estimate — the “final” version is due in a couple of days — the CBO’s analyses rarely differ substantially from the preliminary to the final stage.  The Washington Post comes closer to the real problem with any CBO analysis, which is that the bill attempts so many changes that a comprehensive analysis becomes almost impossible to make.  Analysts start having to make a compounding series of assumptions that could well prove false, which would result in unpredicted outcomes.

The Post posits two scenarios in which the outcomes would differ greatly than the predictions:

The bill contains numerous provisions meant to reduce the long-run growth in the cost of health care, such as by funding “comparative effectiveness research” to figure out what treatment strategies offer the most bang for the buck. Insurance companies would push their customers to pursue those treatments and thus keep costs down.

But the CBO was cautious, predicting zero savings from that program and others meant to develop ways to make the health system more cost-effective over time.

Some health experts have argued that the agency was too conservative in its approach and that those programs could lead to vast savings in the cost of health care and make the legislation a boon for the federal budget.

But budget experts are more wary, concerned that the programs could just as easily produce few savings, or even cause higher costs.

Given that “comparative effectiveness” primarily provides a means for rationing, the chances of it hiking costs are on the low side.  The real danger with comparative effectiveness is that it will be used to deny treatments in a government-run system, or as our President once put it, patients will be told to just take painkillers instead of receiving effective treatments.  It could potentially act in the same manner as defensive medicine does now, demanding a series of tests for conditions that aren’t indicated in patient presentations, but that’s not terribly likely since the government would then have to fund it.

The second scenario is much, much more likely to come to fruition:

But perhaps the biggest risk that could cause the budget impact to diverge from the CBO estimates comes from Congress. The estimates assume that the legislation plays out as written over the coming decade, which would mean reining in the growth of payments to doctors and hospitals and implementing a tax on high-cost health insurance plans.

Those two policies are responsible for bringing in the revenue and cost savings that allow the plan to expand coverage to 32 million more Americans yet, according to the projections, bring down the deficit.

But that falls apart if a future Congress finds the cuts or taxes too painful to handle and overturns them.

That will fall apart faster than the Post suggests.  This Congress is already debating a “doctor fix” that rescinds the reimbursement cuts to providers, even though the numbers they submitted to the CBO rely on those lower figures.  The Post also fails to identify the larger risk with the so-called “Cadillac plan” tax, which is that insurance companies will simply stop offering those kinds of plans in the future.  They will tailor their plans to avoid the tax, and as a result, the expected revenues from that tax will eventually dissipate — and probably much faster than anyone thinks.

The CBO should have developed alternate cases for these potential outcomes, but in their defense, they’ve been asked to score a fantasy from the very beginning.   The Post reminds us that there are plenty of reasons to take the CBO analysis with a Lot’s Wife-sized grain of salt, not the least of which is the fact that it depends on Congress to follow through on their pledges.

This is the reason that incremental change makes a lot more sense.  It eliminates the need to compound assumptions, and it’s more reversible when it fails.

Keith Hennessey has more thoughts along these same lines.

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Instead of rushing this f’ing monster through, the numbers should be carefully crunched.

OmahaConservative on March 19, 2010 at 10:15 AM

The goal is to control and kill insurance companies, so then the public option eventually becomes a reality.

Crazy? No Crazy like a fox. They are doing this.

Mr. Joe on March 19, 2010 at 10:16 AM

Maybe the Republicans should insert an amendment that states , that if the medicare cuts are not enacted , then the whole bill/ law is void .
That should kill it ………….

ELMO Q on March 19, 2010 at 10:18 AM

The goal is to control and kill insurance companies, so then the public option eventually becomes a reality.

Crazy? No Crazy like a fox. They are doing this.

Mr. Joe on March 19, 2010 at 10:16 AM

It has always been about getting control of our access to healthcare not our healthcare.

thomasaur on March 19, 2010 at 10:19 AM

OH c’mon,you don’t hunt varmin with a .22….you use a tatical nuclear weapon. sheeesh.. What’s wrong with you people?????

SHARPTOOTH on March 19, 2010 at 10:19 AM

This Sunday the far left radicals, the Marxis, the Statists, the Communists on team Obama will, in all likelyhood, pass a Health Care bill that will FOREVER change America! America turns back the clock, turns from a BEACON of FREEDOMS into a 3rd World Dictatorship… Yes, from just this one bill…

Why do you think they Comrade Pelosi and Chairman Obama are lying, breaking the Oath of Office to “Protect and Defend” the Constitution… Because it gives them ULTIMATE POWER over your very LIFE! They can tell YOU how much you as a person anre “woth” in health care spending, they can tell you that YOUR lifestyle choices COST TOO MUCH and must be “changed” for the “good of all” and to “control costs”…

They will CONTROL all YOUR once personal and private decisions reguarding they type and amount of HEALTH CARE, life and death, decisions that YOU use to make for yourself and your family! You, the PEOPLE, the CITIZEN, will no longer be ALLOWED to make ANY decisions on what you buy, who your Doctor is, how much it costs… You are NOW a servant to Obama and the radical left!

You MUST, or pay and fine and go to JAIL, buy a Obama approved health care policy! YOU MUST or the 18,000 NEW I.R.S. folks that this bill also hires WILL TRACK YOU DOWN AND FINE YOU AND PUT YOU IN JAIL for NON-COMPLIANCE to Obama… Can anyone here say Castro, Cuba, Russia???

Please someone show me, please you libs here in Kumpania, (and you and I know who you are), show me in The Constitution where it says that the Federal Govmt. can FORCE and MANDATE that a private citizen MUST purchase ANY PRODUCT or SERVICE or face FINE AND JAIL! Where is it???

You can’t show it because IT IS NOT IN THE CONSTITUTION, actualy just the OPPOSITE is in the Constitution… “CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAWS…” (look up the exact wording)

Most of you far left radicals do NOT care what is in the Constitution because it is written to PREVENT the massive intruision of the FEDS and Obama into our daily lives… You want a NANNY STATE, WOMB TO TOMB care…

Let me ask 3 questions and see if we can get ANYONE with the corage of their convictions to reply…

Most radical libs are cowards and will not stand on ANY principals, but let’s see…

1) Would you buy a car that you have NOT SEEN… Pay for it for 4 years BEFORE you can drive it???

**** No one, not even Obama knows what is in the current fraud of a bill, you will start paying new “fees” and TAXES, no matter what your income lvl is right away, but the “benifits do not even start for 6 to 8 YEARS!!!

So would you?

2) Are you OK and agree to let Obama and the far left in Congress RATION CARE and CUT Medicare and DICTATE YOUR CHOICES in reguards to YOUR health care and lifestyle???

*** There are “Panels” (have been called “Death Panels”) of so called health care experts, and YES IT SAYS THIS EXACTLY IN THE BILL, that will DECIDE how much you as a person are WORTH SPENDING ON… They, this unelected board, WILL tell Doctors what treatments and medicines YOU can get based on AGE, HEALTH, LIFE EXPECTANCY, NORMS and “other factors”…. FACT: ALL COUNTRIES THAT HAVE SOCIALIZED MEDICINE ARE BROKE, ALL HAVE RATIONING, ALL HAVE POORER CARE than America! FACT !!! And now those same things are comming to YOU and our once great Country!

Already, in many States and Cities we see the TIP OF THE ICEBERG as to what this can and WILL mean… Cities charging TAXES and FEES on salt intake, calories intake… Telling folks what they CAN and CAN NOT EAT… Or rights ARE under assualt… THEY WANT TO CONTROL EVERY ASPECT OF OUR LIVES… In califorian for example, they are now MANDATING what COLORS of cars can be sold… NO MORE BLACK CARS, they are bad for Global Warming… In NJ and NY they are TAXING sodas and telling PRIVATE resturants that they can no longer serve SALT in the foods… Have you ever tasted many foods WITHOUT salt??? They SUCK !!! So are you ready for this type of control???

But WAIT, theres more…

3) Why Dems, are you willing and ready to have HUGE WAITS to see ANY Doctor, go on WAITING LISTS for proceedusres, have YOUR choices removed and be at the MERCY of a nameless, faceless Govmt agency?

Dive and Ihealu will tell ANYONE who asks about socilized, Govmt run health care… THEY HAVE IT IN GERMANY and FRANCE and BRITON and CANADA… It is HORRIBLE…. LONG waits, HUGE TAX BURDENS, POOR CARE QUALITY… Lack of new drugs, lack of new inovation… POOR OVERAL CARE! This is NOT about affordable health care, it’s about a HUGE NEW GOVERNMENT TAKEOVER, GOVERNMENT CONTROL of YOUR LIFE!!!

*** Why, oh why, do we want what have been PROVEN to be a DISASTER in EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY that has gone this route to happen to THE BEST health care in the world??? In Canada and France and England and from ALL OVER rich and affulent people FLOCK to AMERICA for threatments, why ?, because we have THE BEST Doctors, Hospitals, Medicines… THIS IS ALL ABOUT TO CHANGE and NOT for the better… RATIONING has and IS accuring right now in Germany, France, Spain, Canada, Cuba all over the world… WE CAN NOT AFFORD THIS MASSIVE GOVMT TAKE OVER OF 1/6 or 20% of our economy…

OH, 1 more question Leftists…

4) What gives you the “right” to tell me what I can and can not do, what I must and must not purchase, what I MUST spend my money on… Oh, and PLEASE, PLEASE use the lie that this Communist regiem is using about “that people must now buy care insurance. it’s the same thing”. NOPE, a lie… IF I do NOT own or dive a car, I ride a bike or take mass transit, I DO NOT HAVE TO BUY ANY INSURANCE!!! This bill says I MUST, at the point of a gun, jail and fines, I MUST comply with Obama and purchase a ” Obama approved” plan… I have NO rights, NO choice…

IS THIS AMERICA ??? IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT ??? ARE YOU READY TO ‘CONFORM’ or be PUNISHED???

What’s next America????

God save us all from our horribly dangerous “leaders”…

Obama, Pelosi, Reid and the rest of the left HATE America as it is and as it has been… THEY HATE AMERICA’S CONSTITUTION, they are now showing it for all to see by VIOLATING it… They are, and you that support this massive freedom buster of a bill, TRAITORS to our founding, TRAITORS to persona liberty and TRAITIORS to freedom of choice…

I doubt that ANY of you have the stones to reply, but who knows, maybe you have the convictions of your Marxist leaders to stand up and say, YES, I WANT TO BE A SLAVE TO BIG GOVERNMENT… YES, I WANT THEM TO DECIDE FOR ME WHAT IS BEST… YES, I LOVE WAITING IN LINES FOR LIFE SAVING SURGERIES AND DOCTOR VISITS and YES, I LOVE BEING TOLD WHAT TO DO BY MY SAVIOR OBAMA!

We’ll see… AT LEAST I HAVE THE PRIDE AND STONES TO POST MY FEELINGS, FACTS AND OPINIONS FOR ALL TO SEE… I AM NOT A SLAVE, NOR AFRAID…

I WILL NOT PAY MY TAXES THIS YEAR ( go snitch to the secret police, like Russian neighbors did to each other ), I WILL NOT BUY MANDATED INSURANCE… MY MONEY WILL NOT GO TO FUND ABORTIONS !!!

LET THEM TRY TO PUT ME IN JAIL… THEY KNOW WHERE I AM !!!!

MILLIONS of real AMERICANS just like me, will refuse to BREAK THE CONSTITUTION, we will NOT become slaves without a fight, a fight like has only been seen ONCE before in America, how will Obama put MILLIONS IN JAIL to enforce his will on the masses…

70% WANT HIS BILL KILLED in ALL the latest polls, they want some reforms, BUT NOT THIS BILL!!!

KILL THE BILL !!!!!!!!!!

Our so called “Leaders” our so called “Representatives” have been BOUGHT, BRIBED and PAID OFF…

THEY ARE TRAITORS to DEMOCRACY!!!!!!

WE THE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN IGNORE, OUR WISHES ARE IGNORED all in the name of the LARGEST POWER GRAB IN AMERICAN HISTORY !!!!!!!

I say, my friends, it’s time to FIGHT !!!!!!!!

We are about to let the VERY SAME folks that have RUINED SOCIAL SECURITY, BANKRUPTED MEDICARE AND MEDICADE, BROKEN AND MISMANAGED THE POST OFFICE, TRASHED AMTRAC and ANY NUMBER OF OTHER BROKEN AGENCIES run HEALTH CARE !!!!

Where are The PATRIOTS ???

Mark Garnett on March 19, 2010 at 10:20 AM

Instead of rushing this f’ing monster through, the numbers should be carefully crunched.

OmahaConservative on March 19, 2010 at 10:15 AM

Instead of rushing this thru it should be totally scrapped.

PatriotRider on March 19, 2010 at 10:20 AM

“comparative effectiveness”

If doctors are forced to provide a single set of treatments due to government fiat, how will they ever find newer, more effective treatments?

So in effect, we’re not only preserving in amber our broken health care system with this stupid Bill, we’re preserving in amber medical care.

In 2050, we’ll have advanced no further and probably have stepped back as far as medical treatment is concerned.

But it’s all worth it to save Great Leader’s presidency.

NoDonkey on March 19, 2010 at 10:21 AM

The fiscal pretzeling going on here is a giant joke, and the punchline is the final bill; stealing from one entitlement to give to another is the only way to make this work.

Bishop on March 19, 2010 at 10:21 AM

This is how democracy dies…

PatriotRider on March 19, 2010 at 10:21 AM

…unless of course you don’t care about the care and are just using an end run around the Constitution to grab power over the citizens…..

search4truth on March 19, 2010 at 10:22 AM

Where are The PATRIOTS ???
Mark Garnett on March 19, 2010 at 10:20 AM

All around you. We’re here.

Bishop on March 19, 2010 at 10:22 AM

It doesn’t matter, it only costs 940 billion instead of 1 trillion…..

deidre on March 19, 2010 at 10:22 AM

Let them come and try to fine me, put me in jail… Please…

MILLIONS will fight this…

Mark Garnett on March 19, 2010 at 10:23 AM

Using Democrat methodology, my company had a very profitable year since we had one year of revenue but only paid for seven months of COGS (cost of goods sold).

WashJeff on March 19, 2010 at 10:23 AM

Heres da Bill!
===================================

Health Care Bill – H.R. 4872 – Reconciliation Act of 2010

http://www.opencongress.org/house_reconciliation

canopfor on March 19, 2010 at 10:23 AM

if they remove the tax on union plans how is that going to lower the deficit, hence how can it go through the reconcilliaion process?

Jed_Eckert on March 19, 2010 at 10:24 AM

No uncertainties here. This will cost ten times as much as predicted.

jukin on March 19, 2010 at 10:24 AM

I’m reminded of a quote from one of the Star Wars movies…I think it was from the Revenge of the Sith…

…standing in the Senate Chamber Liam Neeson says “so this is how democracy dies, with thunderous applause”

After the bill is passed the democrats will thunderously applaude…

PatriotRider on March 19, 2010 at 10:25 AM

Instead of rushing this f’ing monster through, the numbers should be carefully crunched.
OmahaConservative on March 19, 2010 at 10:15 AM

Are you ready for April 1st?

yoda on March 19, 2010 at 10:25 AM

Patriots,keep ye powder dry,and have ye faith!!

And on a side note,emotions can run high,I don’t want
to see any Crew Members get’n the BanHammer Airstrike!!:)

canopfor on March 19, 2010 at 10:25 AM

I’ve got a little calculation that I would like the CBO to provide. Let’s say that within the 10-year prognostication, Dems grant amnesty AND universal health coverage to current illegal residents. How will that change the tax burden to the private sector?

Do you suppose that is precisely why healthcare is being pushed first?

pjean on March 19, 2010 at 10:26 AM

Has anyone given thought to the notion that just the phrase “Congressional Budget” is pretty much an oxymoron?

pilamaye on March 19, 2010 at 10:26 AM

Analysts 52% of voters in 2008 start having to make a compounding series of assumptions that could well prove false, which would result in unpredicted outcomes.”

Electrongod on March 19, 2010 at 10:27 AM

Unimaginable

http://iowntheworld.com/blog/?p=19731

canopfor on March 19, 2010 at 10:27 AM

Are you ready for April 1st?

yoda on March 19, 2010 at 10:25 AM

Sure am…

OmahaConservative on March 19, 2010 at 10:28 AM

The CBO is forbidden, by law from considering the possibility that people will change their behavior based on changes in the tax law. The so called static vs. dynamic economy debate.

According to law, if someone asked the CBO what would happen if the govt raised the tax rate to 100%, the CBO would take the current national income, and report that as the result.

MarkTheGreat on March 19, 2010 at 10:30 AM

Bloomberg News is reporting that BO is doing his traveling salesman schtick with an appearance in VA today. It’s great to see him out there infuriating people.

Solid B+?

Cody1991 on March 19, 2010 at 10:30 AM

OmahaConservative on March 19, 2010 at 10:28 AM

I must be uninformed. what is happening 4/1/10? A strike?

jbh45 on March 19, 2010 at 10:30 AM

You can’t really crunch the numbers accurately, because you’d have to know how employers, insurance customers, cancer patients, drug makers, doctors, and all the rest of the health care industry will react to all this. That part is all market forces interacting with government mandates. The best guess, of how it ends, is complete disaster all around. And once it’s a complete disaster (as planned) we’ll get the same slow bureaucratic socialized medicine that everyone else has.

RBMN on March 19, 2010 at 10:30 AM

Mark Garnett on March 19, 2010 at 10:20 AM

Mark…you may speak for me anytime! BRAVO my friend, BRAVO!

milwife88 on March 19, 2010 at 10:31 AM

The Republicans tried to fix this problem an number of years back, but the Democrats stopped them. Using static analysis, the CBO will always over report how much income a tax increase will generate, and under report the benefits of a tax cut. Which makes it easier to raise taxes and harder to cut them. Which is how the Democrats want it.

MarkTheGreat on March 19, 2010 at 10:32 AM

The Progressives are duping every element along the way, including the CBO. Absolutely no regard for our traditions and standards.

Filthy doesn’t begin to describe these creatures.

Keemo on March 19, 2010 at 10:32 AM

They could not possibly “enforce” this unconstitutional law if millions refused to pay, refused to purchase, refused to pay normal taxes… It’s time… My money will go to what I say it does, I will be heard and represented… I will not, as a matter of principal fund abortions… I will resist, peacefully for now, but remember Ruby Ridge, Wounded Knee, The Alamo… At some point we must stop trying to reason with the radical left Marxists and “Progressives” and actualy DO SOMETHING other then talk…

Millions of people in a HUGE TAX REVOLT would get attention!

Mark Garnett on March 19, 2010 at 10:33 AM

Bloomberg News is reporting that BO is doing his traveling salesman schtick with an appearance in VA today. It’s great to see him out there infuriating people.

Solid B+?

Cody1991 on March 19, 2010 at 10:30 AM
====================

They can’t even fill the 10,000 seat Patriot Center.

Any bets on whether the protesters outside outnumber the sheeple inside?

uknowmorethanme on March 19, 2010 at 10:33 AM

Instead of rushing this f’ing monster through, the numbers should be carefully crunched.
OmahaConservative on March 19, 2010 at 10:15 AM

The Dems would never go for that because they know that carefully crunching the numbers first would insure that this thing never got passed.

tommyboy on March 19, 2010 at 10:34 AM

Cody1991 on March 19, 2010 at 10:30 AM

“”Obama is telling nervous Democratic lawmakers that their political fates are linked to the health care bill’s passage, discouraging the notion that they can save themselves by opposing it, House members say.””

Now THAT is a schtick. If I were an undecided ‘rat I would tell PBHO to take a flying flock.

Bishop on March 19, 2010 at 10:35 AM

I love numbers, numbers are so precise. Like 5. That’s a lovely number. Or the two million digits of Pi. That’s precise. Or the 500 Billion digits of e.

With numbers, you can build anything.

Skandia Recluse on March 19, 2010 at 10:35 AM

Once govt controls health care, they control every aspect of your life.
Liberals are already justifying bans on trans fats and other “bad” foods, because they increase health care costs, and since govt has to pay for your health care …

Once govt is totally responsible for health care costs, expect the nanny staters to start hitting on other people’s life style choices with renewed vengance. And it won’t just be the normal liberal hell holes, it will be the entire country this time.

MarkTheGreat on March 19, 2010 at 10:35 AM

I must be uninformed. what is happening 4/1/10? A strike?

jbh45 on March 19, 2010 at 10:30 AM
=================

Census Day.

uknowmorethanme on March 19, 2010 at 10:35 AM

Sure am…

OmahaConservative on March 19, 2010 at 10:28 AM

I’ll let huskerdiva know and we’ll all try to meet in the same place.

yoda on March 19, 2010 at 10:35 AM

Craig Crawford Video on Administration -D.C. Arm Twisting – The Dennis Kucinich edition.

Dr Evil on March 19, 2010 at 10:35 AM

if they remove the tax on union plans how is that going to lower the deficit, hence how can it go through the reconcilliaion process?

Jed_Eckert on March 19, 2010 at 10:24 AM

They raise taxes on everyone else to compensate.

MarkTheGreat on March 19, 2010 at 10:37 AM

Census Day.

uknowmorethanme on March 19, 2010 at 10:35 AM

Yeah, so. you tell them how many live in your home and leave the rest blank. already did that…i guess I am still missing the point. maybe need more coffee this morning.

jbh45 on March 19, 2010 at 10:37 AM

Where are our statesmen and women, where is our Sam Adams, our Ben Franklin, our John Adams?

This President and the Congress are going to be judged against the fruit that they produce. So far, it is unarguably rotten—and that is descriptive of them and their character in toto.

ted c on March 19, 2010 at 10:37 AM

Garbage in, garbage out.

AZCoyote on March 19, 2010 at 10:38 AM

If doctors are forced to provide a single set of treatments due to government fiat, how will they ever find newer, more effective treatments?

So in effect, we’re not only preserving in amber our broken health care system with this stupid Bill, we’re preserving in amber medical care.

In 2050, we’ll have advanced no further and probably have stepped back as far as medical treatment is concerned.

But it’s all worth it to save Great Leader’s presidency.

NoDonkey on March 19, 2010 at 10:21 AM

Oh, don’t worry. The government will still allow mandate innovation. It’s just that us serfs will be the ones experimented on in order to find effective treatments for the ruling class.

rbj on March 19, 2010 at 10:38 AM

Wouldn’t it be great if every small business in America entered into an agreement with their employees to for 1 quarter work “under the table”? I know that it is illegal. But think of all the income tax they would loose.

milwife88 on March 19, 2010 at 10:38 AM

Here is what I would LOVE TO SEE:

(Picture this…)

Over 2 MILLION men, women and children marching towards the Capital, more heading to The White House ARMED TO THE TEETH… PEACEFULLY MARCHING!!! (Children way to the rear, no human shields for us…) The Obamaites call on the Military… as we approach our brave men and women in uniform THEY JOIN OUR NUMBERS… We march into the Capital, we STOP the Congress… We stand in the chambers, forcing them to take a UP OR DOWN VOTE and BE ACCOUNTED…

THIS IS PEACEFUL, we do not threaten… We simple FORCE OUR REPRESENTITIVES to abide by the Constitution, if the bill passes, FINE… they voted… We leave PEACEFULLY, but Obama and the radicals have gotten the message…

Pass or Fail, take the vote…

Mark Garnett on March 19, 2010 at 10:40 AM

Deep Breaths …. [Kathryn Jean Lopez]

Via the Hill:

Freshman Rep. John Boccieri (D-Ohio) will announce his health care vote at a press conference at 10:40 a.m. at the Capitol.

The fact that he’s holding a press conference suggests it’s a win for the Democratic leadership. It seems unlikely he’d make a big show out of it if he wasn’t standing by his party and this bill.

Regardless, this is a big one either way. Boccieri is seen as a pivotal vote, and whichever side nabs him in 85 minutes will hail the decision as proof of their momentum.

Boccieri didn’t appear at an event in his state with President Obama this week, but he has said that he’s willing to cast a tough vote.

I note the Susan B. Anthony List-commissioned polling numbers from his district:

* 80% oppose using tax dollars to pay for abortions (67% strongly oppose)
* 79% oppose taxpayer funding of abortions as part of healthcare reform (67% strongly oppose)
* 71% agree that abortion and abortion funding have no place in healthcare legislation (60% strongly agree)
* 62% would be less likely to vote to re-elect Congressman Boccieri if he votes for healthcare legislation that includes federal government funding of abortion (50% would be much less likely)

Cody1991 on March 19, 2010 at 10:40 AM

If I were an undecided ‘rat I would tell PBHO to take a flying flock.

Bishop on March 19, 2010 at 10:35 AM

Same here. That’s why I’m not a politician.

Cody1991 on March 19, 2010 at 10:42 AM

milwife88 on March 19, 2010 at 10:38 AM

Pish posh, I work for barter/trade every once in a while now. My oldest girl learned how to ride a horse from a neighbor which was traded for some repair welding I did on some of the neighbor’s snow-plow equipment.

Not that I’m saying everyone can do this, you have to be in the right place and have the right setup, but companies can work this out other ways such as offering unofficial benefits that aren’t tallied on the pay books.

Bishop on March 19, 2010 at 10:42 AM

The real danger with comparative effectiveness is that it will be used to deny treatments in a government-run system

Would that qualify as a “death panel?”

katiejane on March 19, 2010 at 10:43 AM

The real danger with comparative effectiveness is that it will be used to deny treatments in a government-run system, or as our President once put it, patients will be told to just take painkillers instead of receiving effective treatments.

The REAL real danger of the standardized comparative effectiveness regime would be to stop procedures on the edge and to totally end research into new procedures (since they would never be considered effective until they were done enough to be mainstreamed among doctors and hospitals and streamlined in the actual procedures) and drag our health care to a stage of stagnation – which is what all centrally controlled systems tend towards.

neurosculptor on March 19, 2010 at 10:43 AM

IMPEACH THIS PHONEY AND HIS CONGRESS

No doubt that the great whore spoken of in the Holy Bible are these two and the socialist country they have created.
Maybe even contenders for the Great Deceivor himself or the Anit-Christ.

bluegrass on March 19, 2010 at 10:43 AM

Same here. That’s why I’m not a politician.
Cody1991 on March 19, 2010 at 10:42 AM

Cody/Bishop 2012

We can start the “Go Flock Yourself” party. You never know, some straight talk directed at lifer royalty politicians just may have some legs.

Bishop on March 19, 2010 at 10:44 AM

the “final” version is due in a couple of days

Um, shouldn’t the vote wait for the official data?

drjohn on March 19, 2010 at 10:48 AM

We can start the “Go Flock Yourself” party. You never know, some straight talk directed at lifer royalty politicians just may have some legs.

Bishop on March 19, 2010 at 10:44 AM

Have you heard about this group, Get Out Of Our House? The man who started it retired to work on getting real people in Congress.

http://goooh.com/

Cody1991 on March 19, 2010 at 10:50 AM

This will never stand. I have more faith in Americans than to think that we will collectively allow Gestapo tactics of the IRS to collect fees, lien property and otherwise harass Americans who chose not to buy health insurance not to mention that such a program could never be administered.

If it passes, the bill will be challenged in federal court and it will take years to resolve. Meanwhile, liberals will be thrown out of Congress in November and Obama will follow in ’12. Obama will go down as a worse president than Carter.

Since there will be no economic growth until liberals are out, even unions will yield to free market principles, or they will die. Conservatism and the American way of life will prevail in the end. The MSM will become more and more irrelevant. The parasites in this country will learn to either work or suffer the consequences.

This is not the first time socialist tried this in this country and the other times it failed there was no internet and cable TV. It will take many years to fix what damage has been done to our country, but it will be done. I hope that I live to see it.

orlandocajun on March 19, 2010 at 10:50 AM

The Post also fails to identify the larger risk with the so-called “Cadillac plan” tax, which is that insurance companies will simply stop offering those kinds of plans in the future. They will tailor their plans to avoid the tax, and as a result, the expected revenues from that tax will eventually dissipate — and probably much faster than anyone thinks.

This is what concerns me as well. The government will mandate that we all have at least the basic, minimum of standards insurance. They will set that standard. What will the basic minimum be?

I imagine they’re going to force employers, and individuals to purchase a pretty nice chunk of insurance. Then when no one can afford it, they’ll want us begging for single payer.

This is a corrupt bill from beginning to end, and if Americans are smart, we will hold these people responsible for what they’re attempting to do. Which is no less than a coup in my opinion.

capejasmine on March 19, 2010 at 10:51 AM

When these radicals return to their homes on Easter break hundreds of thousands should be on their lawns all across this once great Nation demanding they resign…

Remember when ACORN marched and bus toured Big Bussiness owners homes and scared families????

It’s OUR TURN NOW… Make these radicals crindge at the thought of us surrounding their homes and offices and demanding they uphold The Constitution… Demand they resign…

Mark Garnett on March 19, 2010 at 10:51 AM

jbh45 on March 19, 2010 at 10:30 AM

4/1/2010 5:00 PM = 8:00 PM Tea Party Express Omaha Nebraska 68144 Lake Zorinsky 156th & F Streets http://www.netaxpayers.com Doug Kagan (402) 551-0921 netaxpayers@gmail.com

OmahaConservative on March 19, 2010 at 10:52 AM

They MUST know they are toast, or do they…

Do the radical in Congress really think we are going to forgive and forget?

I really wonder…

Are they right ?

Mark Garnett on March 19, 2010 at 10:53 AM

orlandocajun on March 19, 2010 at 10:50 AM

Well done! The next three years will be filled with analyses, lawsuits, ups, downs, turnovers, and ultimately, Mr. Obama will have a new address in 2013.

The country and its spirit are bigger than the corruption, deceit and the power-hungry lunatics who have the spotlight at the present time.

sherry on March 19, 2010 at 10:54 AM

The CBO should have developed alternate cases for these potential outcomes, but in their defense, they’ve been asked to score a fantasy from the very beginning.

*confirmed*

Pot of gold at the end of the rainbow cannot be found using mathematics.

ted c on March 19, 2010 at 10:56 AM

Boccieri – annoucing YES right now

Big Loss

All “undecideds” that dont say yes/no today are a YES for Sunday per Jonah Goldberg’s sources

LordMaximus on March 19, 2010 at 10:56 AM

Cody1991 on March 19, 2010 at 10:50 AM

Thanks for the link.

I like the idea of electing such people but they always seem to get corrupted by the system, they are never willing to take the steps to really change the system even if they could.

It seems the only way this will ever change is if everything literally falls apart and gets rebuilt.

Bishop on March 19, 2010 at 10:57 AM

More sob stories from another dem (Boccieri)…another vote in the Y column… prick.

bernzright777 on March 19, 2010 at 10:57 AM

Boccieri (D-Ohio) is on TV now giving sad sad stories with his constituents, he’s a yes. He even brought up the lady the president used in Ohio although her story is known to be exaggerated.

Cindy Munford on March 19, 2010 at 10:58 AM

America turns back the clock, turns from a BEACON of FREEDOMS into a 3rd World Dictatorship

Beacon of freedoms? Please.

The areas of life that remain outside the government’s participation, taxation, subsidization, regulation, surveillance, and other intrusion or control have become so few and so trivial that they scarcely merit mention. We verge ever closer upon the condition in which everything that is not prohibited is required. Yet, the average American will declare loudly that he is a free man and that his country is the freest in the world. Thus, in a country where more and more is for the state, where virtually nothing is outside the State, and where, aside from pointless complaints, nothing against the State is permitted, Americans have become ideal fascist citizens.

“None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.”
–Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Rae on March 19, 2010 at 10:59 AM

Well done! The next three years will be filled with analyses, lawsuits, ups, downs, turnovers, and ultimately, Mr. Obama will have a new address in 2013.

sherry on March 19, 2010 at 10:54 AM

I picked to wrong time to quit perusing my Law degree.

Electrongod on March 19, 2010 at 11:00 AM

PatriotRider on March 19, 2010 at 10:25 AM

No, it was from Padme Amidala. I know because when 0bama was selected, I put this quote up in my cube at work to make let the local liberals here know how I felt. Funny, they don’t come talk to me anymore. ;)

Torch on March 19, 2010 at 11:00 AM

perusing = pursuing

Electrongod on March 19, 2010 at 11:01 AM

It seems the only way this will ever change is if everything literally falls apart and gets rebuilt.

Bishop on March 19, 2010 at 10:57 AM

True. That’s why I’m drawn to the idea of term limits. I’d also like to move Congress to a small town in North Dakota where they would have to stay in a Motel 6 for the months of December through March to complete their work. After that they can go home and face their constituents. ;)

Cody1991 on March 19, 2010 at 11:01 AM

Um, shouldn’t the vote wait for the official data?

drjohn on March 19, 2010 at 10:48 AM

LOL!

What’s next, reading a bill before you vote on it?

Or even actually voting on a bill?

Great comedy here.

rbj on March 19, 2010 at 11:01 AM

The bill contains numerous provisions meant to reduce the long-run growth in the cost of health care

Riiiight. Which is why the CBO estimate of the premium-subsidy line item goes from $2 billion to $115 billion in 10 years. That’s an average annual compound growth rate of over 166 percent.

DrSteve on March 19, 2010 at 11:01 AM

Boccieri just said “If I can save one life it will be worth a “yes” vote”. What about all the unborn lives you are killing you FOOL. What a TOOL!

Dire Straits on March 19, 2010 at 11:01 AM

Rae on March 19, 2010 at 10:59 AM

You notice how he EPIC FAILS to answer ANY of my 4 questions ? COWARDS ALL OF YOU !!!!

Mark Garnett on March 19, 2010 at 11:01 AM

Obama is going to start pushing immigration reform, and activists are going to be marching in DC this weekend, Sunday, under the slogan (and I didn’t make this up) “Tacos for Justice“. It is being sponsored by NBC’s sister network, Telemundo.

The Leadership Conference on Civil Rights is backing their efforts, along with comprehensive immigration reform, to get the illegal immigrants into the system to get them “access” to health care coverage. Maybe the CBO should include those numbers in their analysis. Gee….I wonder if that might throw the numbers off a bit…….

Patriot Vet on March 19, 2010 at 11:01 AM

Rostenkowski!!!!!

daesleeper on March 19, 2010 at 11:03 AM

Mark Garnett on March 19, 2010 at 11:01 AM

Don’t look at the Pautard! It will steal your soul!

daesleeper on March 19, 2010 at 11:05 AM

If anyone actualy thinks this bill will get overturned in a court your wrong… Obamaby and the Raidcals have Far Left Marxists in every Federal Court in America… If it’s not stopped now, it will NOT be overturned… And Repubs will NOT be able to reverse course once the “freebies” start to flow to the “poor childeren”… We will be viewed as EVIL for hurting the poor… all the normal crap…

If it passes, it’s our death… and a slow painfull death it will be since we will ALL be wards of the Communist States of America!

Mark Garnett on March 19, 2010 at 11:05 AM

Let’s also be mindful that the phaseout income limits for the insurance subsidies for people in the exchanges are effectively changes in marginal tax rates. Steep ones, in some cases — steep enough to affect behavior.

DrSteve on March 19, 2010 at 11:05 AM

I picked to wrong time to quit perusing my Law degree.

Electrongod on March 19, 2010 at 11:00 AM

Start it back up! Firms will probably be hiring in droves. Based on some of the provisions of the bill, every citizen is going to need a good lawyer and a bail bondsman.

sherry on March 19, 2010 at 11:05 AM

OmahaConservative on March 19, 2010 at 10:52 AM

Thanks. I used to live in Lincoln, wish I can be there….

jbh45 on March 19, 2010 at 11:11 AM

The No’s are quickly flipping to Yea’s…

To be expected, as a Liberal is a Liberal through to the core. No such a thing as a Blue-dog… Pure fiction.

Let the law suits begin! State by State, let your voices be heard. If your Governor won’t file suit, vote the bastard out.

This is war. Mankind against the machine.

Keemo on March 19, 2010 at 11:13 AM

Cody1991 on March 19, 2010 at 11:01 AM

But do does that ever happen? We get one guy in there who advocates term limits and he gets slaughtered by the 500 others who don’t want to end their own gravy trains; there is literally no way to affect the status quo that Co ngress has created. They will NEVER allow term limits.

So….society will have to impose term limits upon them, and the only way that will happen is if things collapse. It’s ugly, really ugly, that we have come to the point that we can’t control our own government.

Bishop on March 19, 2010 at 11:13 AM

Another fine analysis of the more realistic ($2 TRILLION) costs:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/cbo-obamacare-would-cost-over-2-trillion

Lockstein13 on March 19, 2010 at 11:14 AM

215-215

royzer on March 19, 2010 at 11:20 AM

“None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.”
–Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Rae on March 19, 2010 at 10:59 AM

You notice how he EPIC FAILS to answer ANY of my 4 questions ? COWARDS ALL OF YOU !!!!

Mark Garnett on March 19, 2010 at 11:01 AM

TL;DR. Ask me again sans the tantrum, and maybe I’ll oblige!

I’m a woman, btw.

Don’t look at the Pautard! It will steal your soul!

daesleeper on March 19, 2010 at 11:05 AM

The Bush GOP delivered you to this low and desperate place. Stop blaming paleoconservatives for the neoclowns’ epic failures. YOU are why we have Obamanation. Take a bow!

Rae on March 19, 2010 at 11:20 AM

Why do I all of the sudden feel like I’m in the movie “Red Dawn“.

Dire Straits on March 19, 2010 at 11:20 AM

If anyone actualy thinks this bill will get overturned in a court your wrong…

Mark Garnett on March 19, 2010 at 11:05 AM

The only final and true authority in this country are it’s people. Very few understand that. Presidents and Congress can make laws to their hearts content … and courts can rule them legitimate until they turn blue. When the people finally decide that enough is enough, and determine that the courts, Congress and the president are illegitiamte usurpers, then we’ll be on the road to victory.

People simply don’t understand that we, as a nation … the majority … can just ignore them. There is absolutely nothing the government can do if the people do not recognize them as legitimate. They will have lost their power.

Of course, getting people to understand that is a much harder prospect.

darwin on March 19, 2010 at 11:22 AM

Nothing short of a permanent physical occupation of a million people or more sitting on the steps of Congress daily will change anything. Every day millions of unemployed people should go to DC and protest this vast left wing attack on Democracy and the Constitution.

royzer on March 19, 2010 at 11:27 AM

Bishop on March 19, 2010 at 11:13 AM

I don’t expect term limits to ever be imposed. There are too many politicians who make their fortunes off the taxpayer’s back to ever expect them to restrict themselves. As you say, the public will have to do it, and we can probably expect the sort of swings we have seen in recent years from one party to the other.

Cody1991 on March 19, 2010 at 11:28 AM

The war was lost years ago when republicans forgot who they were. I have no doubt Bush thought the bailouts were the right thing and he had no intention of stealing power…what we forgot is the drone like ability of the dems to never quit despite loss after loss. We opened up the gate and they are unstoppable now. Much damage will be done as the dems drink from the glass of Jim Jones. The damage will be done though before it is over and it is horrific.

tomas on March 19, 2010 at 11:30 AM

Stupak and his band are still gumming up the works. Can anyone confirm.

Dire Straits on March 19, 2010 at 11:35 AM

When doctors and other healthcare providers simply opt out or retire rather than take patients that lose them money (which Walgreens in WA has already started, and many doctors already do not take Medicare and Medicaid patients), will our benevolent leaders force them to continue working?

How long before Directive 10-289 is enacted? Rand was a prophet.

iurockhead on March 19, 2010 at 11:36 AM

** Page 58 and 59: The government will have real-time access to an individual’s bank account and will have the authority to make electronic fund transfers from those accounts.

Did you catch this little gem?

Keemo on March 19, 2010 at 11:36 AM

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