Palin: Who will get left behind in ObamaCare?
posted at 7:30 am on March 15, 2010 by Ed Morrissey
Sarah Palin maintained her attack on the ObamaCare issue in a Facebook posting yesterday afternoon, returning to a familiar theme. When government starts making the rationing decisions instead of consumers in a marketplace, who gets left without care — and why? Bart Stupak’s allegation about Henry Waxman and the Democratic leadership position on abortion underscores the issue, Palin insists:
Republicans in Congress are holding the line, and some Democrats are standing with them. Rep. Bart Stupak (D-MI) said he won’t vote for the Senate bill if federal funding of abortion is included. Last Friday, he told National Review Online that some Democrats have told him that if abortions aren’t covered in Obamacare then “more children will be born, and therefore it will cost us millions more…Money is their hang-up. Is this how we now value life in America?” As I wrote in my first post on this topic, human rights and human dignity must be at the center of any health care discussion. Government health care will not reduce the cost of medical care; it will simply refuse to pay it. And who will get left behind when they have to ration care to save money?
Please ask yourself: who will be left behind? And who will decide – what kind of panel will decide – who receives the health care that government will obviously have to ration?
There’s a great deal of pressure being put on Stupak’s pro-life Democrats. They’re already dwindling in number. Their party is threatening them, and so are powerful SEIU labor union bosses. The Democrats respecting the sanctity of life have every incentive to buckle under the pressure, so they need to know that we’ll support them if they do the right thing and vote no on Obamacare.
No, Palin doesn’t use the phrase “death panels,” but Stupak’s accusation makes it clear that some in government have already decided to trade life for cost considerations. How else should one read this?
What are Democratic leaders saying? “If you pass the Stupak amendment, more children will be born, and therefore it will cost us millions more. That’s one of the arguments I’ve been hearing,” Stupak says. “Money is their hang-up. Is this how we now value life in America? If money is the issue — come on, we can find room in the budget. This is life we’re talking about.”
It’s not that far from funding abortions for cost savings to refusing expensive treatments to the elderly for the same reason. That’s exactly what “comparative effectiveness” decisions do. They calculate where to put finite treatment resources so they will have the most impact. Everyone else gets to take a few painkillers and wait for the inevitable.
In any system, the people who control the resources make those decisions. In a completely free market, it’s the consumer himself. In a third-party payer system, it’s usually the insurance company chosen by the consumer. In a government-run system, it’s a bureaucracy that not only doesn’t answer to anyone, it doesn’t have any competition to force it to pay attention to its consumers/constituents. We need to move those decisions closer to the consumer rather than farther away from him. ObamaCare does just the opposite, and that should worry consumers of the American health-care system.
Blowback
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Exactly. Which is why the “right to health care” people are actually taking away our rights to health care.
pearson on March 15, 2010 at 7:36 AM
The very Children the Democrat Party are hiding behind!!
canopfor on March 15, 2010 at 7:37 AM
The Thug Federal government wants you!
Spathi on March 15, 2010 at 7:38 AM
This is the most disgusting thing. Using abortions as a cost saving measure has to be one of the worst things I have ever heard of. The poor (minority Democrats) should look at this and see how much their compassionate party cares about them.
TXMomof3 on March 15, 2010 at 7:38 AM
Please ask yourself: who will be left behind? And who will decide – what kind of panel will decide – who receives the health care that government will obviously have to ration?
=================================================
Ummm,right out of the gate,no healthcare could mean,
imprisonment of its citizens!
canopfor on March 15, 2010 at 7:41 AM
A nation that would treat their elderly and the weakest among them this way, doesn’t have very fall to fall. We have an obligation, as a decent people, to protect those who can least protect themselves. The Democrat party has shown themselves to be absolutely without shame or even a soul.
TXMomof3 on March 15, 2010 at 7:42 AM
Btw,this Wheeling/Dealing/Stealing Bribes to States,
isn’t that realy the same as “Special Interests Groups”,
in a round about way,that the Liberal Party are busy
buying off!!
Jus say’n!
canopfor on March 15, 2010 at 7:44 AM
Of all the arguments against Obamacare (and there are many), I’ll never quite understand the rationing/death panel part. As it stands, the market already rations medical care. The mechanism is called: “You can’t afford this, make way for someone who can”. Or what about areas like prostate cancer screening? We screen 75 year olds for crying out loud! If a doctor finds a tumor on your prostate at 75, you’re about 99% likely to with prostate cancer rather than of prostate cancer. Like it or not there are practices in this country we need to review, unless we’re all perfectly ok with spending ever increasing portions of our GDP on healthcare.
Is a government run plan the only way to do this? Certainly not. But fearmongering over the cost cutting that has to occur…I’m not understanding the point, outside of the purely political one.
ernesto on March 15, 2010 at 7:47 AM
This is the most reprehensible thing I heard this weekend- and that says alot with Dems essentially saying they had full confidence they would be able to bribe enough Democrats to pass Obamacare by the end of the week.
Now, apparently, the unborn life isn’t just a blob of tissue, it is a drain on society.
highhopes on March 15, 2010 at 7:48 AM
The first people without health care should be the congress.
tim c on March 15, 2010 at 7:49 AM
You are intentionally missing the point of the article.
TXMomof3 on March 15, 2010 at 7:53 AM
The Constitution.
neurosculptor on March 15, 2010 at 7:55 AM
Take the moral argument out for a moment. Europe has been reducing their birthrates for a number of reasons. Among the problems they’re having is not enough bodies to fund their social programs. You’d think they’d want those kids being born to grow up and be good little
taxpayersserfs.bikermailman on March 15, 2010 at 7:55 AM
highhopes – Your comment said it all. And the Democrats are supposed to be the “caring” Party.
yoda on March 15, 2010 at 7:57 AM
Boy,I bet Team Obama regrets that crack comment
about SarahCuda,with the infamous Lipstick on a
*** remark!!!
H*ll hath no fury like a Republican women scorned,
er p*ssed off,politically I mean!!
canopfor on March 15, 2010 at 7:59 AM
I seem to recall Krauthammer saying a “seasoned debate” about healthcare reform should exclude Palin. At first I thought that was uncharacteristically elitist of him, but now I think I get it. “Seasoned debate” evidently meant putting the matter in terms the common folk won’t get — quite the opposite of Palin’s approach on this matter.
apostic on March 15, 2010 at 8:01 AM
This is the most reprehensible thing I heard this weekend-
highhopes on March 15, 2010 at 7:48 AM
highhopes: Yup,if they can sell their souls,they would!
Top of the newshour AM radio had a Pelosi
soundbite of,”HISTORICAL”,and thats all
this means to the Liberals,its a feather,
and a vote buyer,nothing more!!:)
canopfor on March 15, 2010 at 8:04 AM
The left is pretty ambivalent towards life at both ends of the spectrum, and has no time for the \’imperfections\’ of mental or phyical disability.
They think Logan\’s Run is a documentary about the kind of model society to which they aspire.
EnglishMike on March 15, 2010 at 8:06 AM
It sounds like the Democrats are dancing VERY CLOSE to that razor’s edge known as ‘eugenics’…
Well, they are ‘Progressives’, after all…
I am sure the Approved Media will be all over this shortly
/sarc
Khun Joe on March 15, 2010 at 8:06 AM
Yeah, I wonder if he would like to rethink his sexist, demeaning comment.
TXMomof3 on March 15, 2010 at 8:06 AM
How hard is it to imagine….
A Government forcing you to be weighed monthly to make sure you’re not exceeding government-approved weight ceilings
A Government forcing you to submit to breathalyzers to makre sure you’re not smoking at all, and to make sure you’re not exceeding governemt approved limits on beer consumption
A Government dictating what food you eat, what clothing you wear, what car you drive, and the state of repair of your house….
all in the name of healthcare.
olesparkie on March 15, 2010 at 8:07 AM
Sorry about the backslashes – log-in glitch.
EnglishMike on March 15, 2010 at 8:07 AM
My mother is 57 years old and was recently diagnosed with Stage 4 gallbladder cancer that has spread to her liver. Her doctor advised her (in front of me) that had she come into their office in a wheelchair they would not have treated her with chemotherapy agents. This isn’t due to some cost-cutting measures. She would not have been treated as the likelihood of her dying from the treatment itself is increased if the patient is deemed to sick/old to handle these drugs. Besides there is a huge difference between her doctor advising her of this based on their medical knowledge and the best interest of the patient as opposed to some bureaucrat in DC deciding that she doesn’t need the treatment because it’s too expensive.
This missing the point entirely. How can they justify wanting to cover illegal aliens under this bill, but fund abortions as a way to save money? If you don’t think politics is behind this decision, then you haven’t been paying attention.
30 pcs of silver on March 15, 2010 at 8:07 AM
In future, whne the Dems try to position themelves as the party of the down trodden perhaps we should ask them to make clear who is and who is not in the that category and why.
jeanie on March 15, 2010 at 8:08 AM
EM, You are somewhat inaccurate here. The left is not ambivalent, they fully embrace the culture of death in all its forms. Literally pre-cradle to grave.
highhopes on March 15, 2010 at 8:08 AM
Seizing and nationalizing healthcare is the left’s great white whale. This is what they’ve aspired to since the very earliest days of socialism in America and they know that they are but a few judas’s shy of getting it.
There is no way that the Senate is going to “fix” their bill to please the House so all the talk of reconciliation is meaningless and any Representative that thinks they will be happy with the outcome of an IOU from Senate Dems should be removed from office and put before a death panel for terminal stupidy.
highhopes on March 15, 2010 at 8:14 AM
I bet if you asked one of these democrats to jump off a cliff to save us money he/she wouldn’t do it. Yet they will galdly murder and unborn baby or allow an elderley person to die for lack of treatment.
boomer on March 15, 2010 at 8:14 AM
Right. Because there is no medicaid, schip or medicare available for poor people, right? And every day I know I walk by the hospital and see hundreds of dead bodies lying around due to the lack of access to health care.
Dude, stop drinking the Kos-Aide, it’s making your brain mushy.
angryed on March 15, 2010 at 8:14 AM
What do you think you’re doing, Sarah? The time for your talking is over. Racist.
/O
rogerb on March 15, 2010 at 8:15 AM
It’s much more than that, it is a huge step toward government control over individual Americans’ lives and the economy. It is a fundamental transformation of the relationship between Americans and their government, and pretty much the lynchpin of a new, bloated and freedom-sucking nanny state.
ProfessorMiao on March 15, 2010 at 8:16 AM
I wonder if Apostic would like to explain what he thinks the people making ‘comparative effectiveness’ decisions will be doing.
ProfessorMiao on March 15, 2010 at 8:19 AM
I think it’s the rationing thing the American people don’t seem to get. It’s so foreign to Americans that, it’s hard to grasp. But if your pappy was Kenyan, it’s easy to understand.
Did you know that to be a ‘natural born citizen’ of the USA, both your parents must be natural born citizens of the USA. I think this is how the founders were trying to prevent these unfortunate mistakes and misinterpretations. It alos helps with things like the 57 states errors.
tarpon on March 15, 2010 at 8:19 AM
Can someone sue to stop this monstrosity from taking place via the courts? Seems like every time there is a new law libs don’t like – Prop 8 comes to mind – the aclu is in front of a judge the day after it’s signed.
So why doesn’t our side do likewise?
angryed on March 15, 2010 at 8:20 AM
ernesto on March 15, 2010 at 7:47 AM
It is literally illegal to refuse to treat a patient with a condition which seriously threatens life or limb, in Emergency Rooms across the nation. This is part of the reason ERs are loss leaders in many hospitals, particularly those in urban/poor areas.
Google EMTALA sometime.
Can you find a few isolated incidents where folks tried to work around this? Probably. (Start looking in Chicago, at Michelle Obama’s previous employer).
However, the system is set up to provide urgently needed care, regardless of ability to pay.
cs89 on March 15, 2010 at 8:22 AM
Clearly.
fossten on March 15, 2010 at 8:22 AM
Yes. And it won’t just be stage 4 that gets cut out from care if the government takes over healthcare. Soon it will be stage 3, then stage 2, then if you have cancer at all.
journeyintothewhirlwind on March 15, 2010 at 8:24 AM
Thanks. That says it all. Yes, funding abortions and defunding elder care for cost savings are not that far apart. In fact, they’re virtually the same.
petefrt on March 15, 2010 at 8:26 AM
Nailed it. And this goes with all aspects of socialism and banana republicanism and even hints of fascism that are being slowly embedded here.
Americans have always believed that America was different. It could never happen here. Freedom was in the bloodlines. That stuff may happen “over there” but never here. Which is why calling Obama a socialist often times gets people to roll their eyes because they simply cannot believe that a POTUS would or could be a socialist. And suggesting that a doctor will have to ask permission from a govt bureaucrat before treating a patient also gets the eye rolls.
In a way the Dem strategy to go so far to the left helped their cause with moderates. It’s so unbelievable that the opposition seems crazy when outlining their reasons for opposing.
angryed on March 15, 2010 at 8:27 AM
So how do they … reconcile … abortion coverage as a cost saving measure? Subsidized healthcare is to be primarily doled out to illegal immigrants who, ironically, have the highest birth rates in the nation. Oh that’s right, this cost-control measure doesn’t apply to Democrat voters.
Mr. Pickles on March 15, 2010 at 8:28 AM
I wish people would understand this. In a finite world resources will have to be rationed. there is no possible way for everyone to have everything. If no rationing occurs the resources are used up. In America over the last 400 odd years the way we have rationed resources is thru the free market by using money. By using money has the way to ration resources we ensure that all things being equal those in society that contribute the most will recieve the most goods and services enabling those people to thrive. Since people then have an incentive to work and be a net plus on society the society on a whole grows and advances.
In a communist/marxist system rationing is done by the state. those with the most power get the most resources irregardless of their impact to sociecty. Everyone else is allowed the same amount of services. there is no incentive to work harder, to study more, to invent new gizmo’s. unless you know someone who is has a hand in the rationing process you get whatever everyone else gets.
We live in a finite world. the free market ensures that those most benificail to society gets the most resources. this uses the base human emotions of greed for the common good.
Is this fair? It is fair to society as a whole not to individuals. And the end result is that when society as a whole benefits then every individual benefits to a sum extant with a better standard of living.
The role of government in a free market system is to ensure that a group or groups of people do not gain so much power that they become the rationers instead of the free market. In effect the government should level the playing field.
An example would be the insurance industry that has a basic monopoly within state borders. these insurance agencies have made the free market hostage to them. the government therefore should ensure more competion. Not become those that do the rationing.
unseen on March 15, 2010 at 8:29 AM
Precisely. In addition, there is a shortage of nurses and medical schools aren’t churning out doctors at a pace that could support adding millions more patients to the system with no change in the level of care you currently receive. Anyone willing to tell you otherwise is a liar.
30 pcs of silver on March 15, 2010 at 8:35 AM
Sorry if I am repeating things. I notice that many people talk about insurance companies denying treatment for their insured but normally it isn’t the treatment that is denied but the payment. Then the patient has recourse through the court system, suing the government is close to impossible.
Cindy Munford on March 15, 2010 at 8:36 AM
Will the Dems who are voted out in 2010 rethink their vote when their sick and elderly mother or father is told to step to the end of the healthcare line in three years when this scam finally kicks in?
Hey Democrats, I won’t!!!!
yoda on March 15, 2010 at 8:36 AM
CONTROL……CONTROL……CONTROL…….
….THAT is what Obamacare is all about!!!
He has shown what he really thinks before (in subtle and not so subtle ways:
His complete failure in the Illinois State Senate to support allowing medical personnel to help an infant BORN ALIVE after a botched abortion.
His comment to the daughter of a 99 year old that had a great quality of life and needed a pacemaker “take the pain pill”.
And his comments about his own Aunt I think it was that really should have just died and saved the money for the hip replacement.
And his comments about evil insurance companies and doctors cutting off feet, cutting out tonsils….all for CASH.
Google this: COMPLETE LIVES SYSTEM by Ezekiel Emmanuel.
It’s all there…….Let’s start the calls again this week!!!!
OBAMACARE is just plain old fashioned E-V-I-L!!!!
PappyD61 on March 15, 2010 at 8:38 AM
Precisely. In addition, there is a shortage of nurses and medical schools aren’t churning out doctors at a pace that could support adding millions more patients to the system with no change in the level of care you currently receive. Anyone willing to tell you otherwise is a liar.
30 pcs of silver on March 15, 2010 at 8:35 AM
yes but there again you have a group/groups that have by their power highjacket the free market. the schools that produce doctors only take a cetain amount of students. this ensures that the supply of doctors is constrained and the price of labor of doctors is kept high. add into the mix the time that our society says is needed to become a doctor/nurse also increases the cost of training.
A government looking to lower costs of healthcare would look to increse enrollment of doctors/nurses, reign in costs of training and employing a doctor like malpractive insurance premiums *meaning tort reform) and giving free market incentives for medical schools to bring in more students.
what Obamacare proposes is like the SS of doctors with politcal hacks watching the way doctors provide care.
unseen on March 15, 2010 at 8:41 AM
unseen,
That’s all fine and good. But you have to remember to the average Dem voter – who pays $0 in taxes – everything on this planet is an entitlement. Free housing (Section 8), free food (food stamps) free gas (I will never have to worry about putting gas in my car), free health care, free education, etc. Because you see, all the “rich” will pay for it all (I will spread the wealth around).
Besides FREE HEALTH CAR NOW is a much easier slogan to put on a bunper sticker than your post.
angryed on March 15, 2010 at 8:41 AM
Right after it passes they are going to be whining that they were deceived by the leadership and are oh so sorry and can they be forgiven for bad judgment..after all they are just human etc etc. Covering their backsides for the 2010. Genuineness is just not their strong suit!!
jeanie on March 15, 2010 at 8:42 AM
And who is stepping in to fill the gaps left by all of those potential European tissue-blobs gone down the sink?
Why , it’s the Muslim immigrants with their several times higher birth rates. As the demographics of the Eurosocialist states race ever closer to the tipping point of Muslim majorities, I wonder how the architects of this debacle will chafe under the bit of the coming Sharia law as it inflicts its tender mercies on their socialist nirvana.
VelvetElvis on March 15, 2010 at 8:43 AM
There are always going to be decisions about the best use of limited resources. But what’s dangerous is concentrating all those decisions in one place. The way it works now is, all the nation’s various hospitals and medical groups decide what they’re willing to subsidize, and what they can’t subsidize–different in different places. One group might have a special dedication to children, or cancer, or transplants, or heart disease, or Third World diseases, etc., and be more willing to accept the hard expensive cases in that area. But once you centralize all that decision making, real people start running out of real opportunities, and they die in cases where they wouldn’t have died before, when the choices were greater.
RBMN on March 15, 2010 at 8:44 AM
If I understand the intention of your question, you might want to go back an read my original post. The content TXMomof3 was quoting was from Krauthammer’s original article which I was remembering. (And it was very nice of TXM to do the legwork on that.) Please note I kinda disagreed with Krauthammer on this — which is odd, as I usually see where he is coming from.
apostic on March 15, 2010 at 8:44 AM
Seizing and nationalizing healthcare is the left’s great white whale. This is what they’ve aspired to since the very earliest days of socialism in America and they know that they are but a few judas’s shy of getting it.
highhopes on March 15, 2010 at 8:14 AM
highhopes: And I agree,this has been 40-60 years?,of a
systematic,Social Engineered,designed,and
the Lefty slow incrementalism over a very
long Leftist Agenda!!:)
canopfor on March 15, 2010 at 8:47 AM
The concern trolls continue to talk about the “crisis” of our current system and the evil insurance companies and hospitals that are refusing to treat people due to their inability to pay or pre-existing condition. As someone said above, I don’t see the corpses stacked up like cordwood everywhere. The fact is that everyone can get care. It may not be the best care and if you have money or a “Cadillac plan” you can get better care. So what you are really concerned about is the fact that some people get better care than others. Because you can’t point to a single person that cannot get care. You can probably find some that are not getting care but that is their fault in this system not society’s.
So I suppose what ernesto and other would like to see is everyone getting the same low standard of care cause that would be more fair……
No thanks.
conservnut on March 15, 2010 at 8:48 AM
I concur. And the more I think about Obamacare the more I realize that if they truly wanted to help lower costs there are certainly better ways to go about doing just that. Instead they opt for funding abortions in an effort to prevent millions of children being born to keep costs low.
30 pcs of silver on March 15, 2010 at 8:49 AM
If the Democrats think the Easter break is going to rough when their constituents burn the phone lines and show up a townhall meetings….just think what going to happen when Democrats start campaigning in the local towns that once supported them. I see pitchforks and shoes flying during the summer on the parade routes.
yoda on March 15, 2010 at 8:50 AM
It’s not the elderly relatives of the bastards that voted for Obamacare I am concerned about. It is my elderly relatives that will be harmed that matters (to me). Not to mention that you can be assured that anybody in the politburo will have access to special clinics apart from what the public has to endure.
highhopes on March 15, 2010 at 8:52 AM
Not only that, a number of surveys indicate that passage of Obamacare will result in many currently practicing medicine to retire early or otherwise leave the profession.
ProfessorMiao on March 15, 2010 at 8:53 AM
thats all
this means to the Liberals,its a feather,
and a vote buyer,nothing more!!:)
canopfor on March 15, 2010 at 8:04 AM
————————————
It’s much more than that, it is a huge step toward government control over individual Americans’ lives and the economy. It is a fundamental transformation of the relationship between Americans and their government, and pretty much the lynchpin of a new, bloated and freedom-sucking nanny state.
ProfessorMiao on March 15, 2010 at 8:16 AM
===============
===============
ProfessorMiao:Yup,and this is what the Left call”Change”,
by going after American’s Freedom,and more
control,everything Big Government!:)
canopfor on March 15, 2010 at 8:54 AM
Besides FREE HEALTH CAR NOW is a much easier slogan to put on a bunper sticker than your post.
angryed on March 15, 2010 at 8:41 AM
true but I believe that humans are beings that can learn and when given the correct information make the correct choices. i do not believe like most of DC that the American people are stupid and/or sheep. I believe that conservatives must teach as well as sloganeer.
right now we have a large portion of the youth in this country that think communism/marxism is good because its “fair”. conservatives are out of power because they failed to ensure they taught their young. They allowed the schools to become conservative free zones, they got lazy during campaigns thinking all they needed to say to win an election is “tax cuts”
Reagan understood this. He taught while he governed. explained things to the people. that is a mark of a real leader. educating the people as you lead them. Obama simple says “do as I say” that is the mark of an abusive tin pot dictator.
unseen on March 15, 2010 at 8:56 AM
Krathammer has a similar resentment to Sarah Palin that liberal women hold.
In Krathammer’s mind, here is this woman who is not part of the elite circle, who didn’t attend an Ivy-League institution and pretty much thumbs her nose at the elite, who did more to focus public attention on health care via Facebook than Krathammer and the other “conservative” elitists ever could.
The fact that Palin sold more than 2-million copies of her book doesn’t do anything to help sooth Krathammer’s ego either.
Speaking of books, I notice Allahpundit was awfully silent about his boy Mitt’s Salt Lake City address. When Mitt can’t fill a 4,400 seat venue in the Mormon capitol of the world, that says a lot. But then, he only had 450 at his book signing in Detroit and 200 at Sacramento.
bw222 on March 15, 2010 at 8:57 AM
I hear you highhopes. These Democrats don’t care about your relatives or my relatives, they are only thinking about their hides and their pocketbooks. We’ll see how they try to explain their vote in November.
yoda on March 15, 2010 at 8:57 AM
My sister who is indigent was diagnosed this past Tuesday with a blood clot on the brain. She had surgery on Thursday and is now recovering. I don’t think this kind of outcome would be possible with Obamacare or anywhere else in the world except here in the United States.
JimK on March 15, 2010 at 8:59 AM
Instead they opt for funding abortions in an effort to prevent millions of children being born to keep costs low.
30 pcs of silver on March 15, 2010 at 8:49 AM
and at the same time they fund illegal immigration. It is almost as if the dem party wants to change the enite make up of the america. jill the babies of americans yet allow millions of immigrants in. Hmmm almost like a master plan.
unseen on March 15, 2010 at 8:59 AM
Speaking of books, I notice Allahpundit was awfully silent about his boy Mitt’s Salt Lake City address. When Mitt can’t fill a 4,400 seat venue in the Mormon capitol of the world, that says a lot. But then, he only had 450 at his book signing in Detroit and 200 at Sacramento.
bw222 on March 15, 2010 at 8:57 AM
thanks, did not see that before. Made me smile for the day. also I noticed over the weekend that Mitt needed large block orders to make it to number 1.
The Mitt people were hoping for 10,000 for the Utah book kickoff. get the big news splash then move on. Mitt’s people are all about the spin and photoop. Nothing of substance. They need to leave the room
unseen on March 15, 2010 at 9:03 AM
We don’t have a shortage of health care in America. We have a shortage of people willing to pay the inflated bill for it. And why are costs inflated? Because of government interference in the market. Lobbyists, mostly, have been deciding what’s available in the health insurance market. The solution is to redesign the system to greatly increase competition for both insurance coverage and medical services. And Obamacare doesn’t do either of that. You make it better by letting people buy the insurance they want, where they want. And you make it better by giving patients some incentive to shop around for medical services, maybe keep some of what they don’t spend.
RBMN on March 15, 2010 at 9:09 AM
Obamacare = LEGAL EXTERMINATION.
ms on March 15, 2010 at 9:11 AM
allahpoundit also neglected, for the first time in memory, to link to his favorite pundit David Frum, whose recent article on Romneycare concluded that it is basically the same as Obamacare. go figure…
james23 on March 15, 2010 at 9:11 AM
BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Comment of the day!!!!!!!!!!!!!
yoda on March 15, 2010 at 9:13 AM
This is true and I am not the least bit surprised … however unfortunate of an outcome this may be. …
30 pcs of silver on March 15, 2010 at 9:19 AM
Obamacare = LEGAL EXTERMINATION
ms on March 15, 2010 at 9:11 AM
BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Comment of the day!!!!!!!!!!!!!
yoda on March 15, 2010 at 9:13 AM
=========================
=========================
yoda: I second that,right to the point!!:)
canopfor on March 15, 2010 at 9:20 AM
…if you like your baby you keep your baby.
Mojave Mark on March 15, 2010 at 9:21 AM
Good, though incomplete, point (IMHO).
I’ll add 2 points that mitigate some of the problems- innovation/productivity increases, and supply/demand.
Many industries have had great productivity increases, resulting in a greater availability of “limited” resources. This is harder with a hands-on issue like medical care, but still possible (think using more drugs than surgical interventions for ongoing management, shorter hospital stays that put more patients through the same # of beds, etc.)
Supply and demand (when unhindered by regulation) evens out the peaks & valleys, such as the RN shortage. Examples in healthcare include relatively high pay (they deserve it, but do make more than many other fields requiring an associate degree), hiring bonuses, and traveling nurses who command a premium to fill gaps in nursing coverage.
But yes, there is a human tendency to want it “all” for practically “nothing.”
cs89 on March 15, 2010 at 9:27 AM
This will be a heck of a week for all of us. GOD help us if this this goes through…..GOD help us!!!
yoda on March 15, 2010 at 9:30 AM
Don’t forget to mention about how the Build-A-Bear Group meeats at a grove while listening to Bohemian Rhapsody. Reasonably-priced Masons rule the country!!!!!1111ELEVENTY!!!1111
DethMetalCookieMonst on March 15, 2010 at 9:36 AM
Link? Send the link to ED in tips@hotair.com
See if he’ll post this and also the book signing/kickoff fail???
conservative pilgrim on March 15, 2010 at 9:45 AM
ernesto, you are not clear here. Also, it sounds like you are saying since the 75 year old will die of prostate cancer, let him/her die without treatment since we don’t want to increase our GDP costs because of healthcare. I sure hope that isn’t what you mean.
I’ll let you clarify before I jump to any conclusions.
conservative pilgrim on March 15, 2010 at 9:48 AM
What I meant was that prostate cancer works so slowly, that if you develop cancer in your 70′s, just about anything else is more likely to get you to your end. Old age, heart failure, stroke, you name it, in your 70′s you’ll die of something OTHER than prostate cancer…hence you dying with it, and not of it. You simply dont have enough time for it to kill you, should you develop it so late.
ernesto on March 15, 2010 at 9:52 AM
So are you saying that the person diagnosed with prostate cancer should be treated or not?
btw-I didn’t know you’re a physician. /
conservative pilgrim on March 15, 2010 at 10:02 AM
What I meant was that prostate cancer works so slowly, that if you develop cancer in your 70’s, just about anything else is more likely to get you to your end. Old age, heart failure, stroke, you name it, in your 70’s you’ll die of something OTHER than prostate cancer…hence you dying with it, and not of it. You simply dont have enough time for it to kill you, should you develop it so late.
ernesto on March 15, 2010 at 9:52 AM
———————————————————-
My uncle developed prostate cancer in his late 60′s. He is now 89 years old and has a couple of months left to live.
He is dying of prostate cancer. He did NOT die of “something else”.
He has NO other illnesses. So what is your point?
He shouldn’t get treatment for prostate cancer because he will die of something else.
FALSE.
Obamacare = LEGAL EXTERMINATION
.
ms on March 15, 2010 at 10:05 AM
I am completely against the gov’t run healthcare program. I don’t even like the state regulations. I don’t see the need to continue the VA in its resent form.
However, despite the emotive attraction of antieugenic arguements, it is done every day. Every day.
We make economic choices on care. We have to. The insurance companies or the treaters do it now.
Have any of you worked in, or visited a nursing home? I’m certain that we could spend more money and keep those folks alive longer.
And you don’t think that surgery and hospital decisions are considered in light of economic factors, among other consideratios?
IlikedAUH2O on March 15, 2010 at 10:05 AM
Im lifting that assessment from an Op-Ed by the guy who designed the most commonly used test to identify prostate cancer. Testing for it after you turn a certain age becomes quite literally useless, as even if they find it, there’s no way its killing you. While people who show symptoms should obviously get tested, every last male of a certain age needn’t get the imperfect screening.
ernesto on March 15, 2010 at 10:06 AM
anecdote =/= national trend
ernesto on March 15, 2010 at 10:07 AM
anecdote =/= national trend
ernesto on March 15, 2010 at 10:07 AM
————————————————
And you have just presented explanation of exactly what those “death panels” will do and how they will do it.
Obamacare = LEGAL EXTERMINATION
ms on March 15, 2010 at 10:11 AM
Is a government run plan the only way to do this? Certainly not. But fearmongering over the cost cutting that has to occur…I’m not understanding the point, outside of the purely political one.
ernesto on March 15, 2010 at 7:47 AM
It’s so easy to say “fearmongering” but I hope you never have to watch someone suffer and not from a “political point”. This is the REAL world.
NJ Red on March 15, 2010 at 10:14 AM
You know, ever increasing portions of GDP to medical spending doesn’t exactly lead us to greener pastures either. Like I said, there are many arguments against Obamacare, but the idea that finite medical resources are not rationed currently is willful ignorance. Distorted market mechanisms may be preferable to bureaucrats, but own it then…go out and tell people that its ok for insurance companies to deny you because they’re private. People don’t understand the whole picture…they see Sarah Palin say death panels and they assume rationing doesn’t go on. Tell the whole story..id still ultimately come out against Obamacare, but tell the whole story.
ernesto on March 15, 2010 at 10:15 AM
You’re inserting your own expectations in your comprehension. In the US, patients over 70, or those in poor health with slow growing prostate cancer, the urologist may offer them the option of expectant management – that is the patients option and not a mandate. It is a decision made by the patient with consultation from the physician, no government agency involved. If you can’t see the difference between treament options now and what it will be under obamacare you are purposely lost.
batterup on March 15, 2010 at 10:21 AM
Nail, head, sledgehammer.
The whole truth said once is worth infinitly more than a half-truth said a million times.
But the problem with telling the whole truth in politics is usually that doing so turns somebody’s sacred cow into hamburger. In this case it’s the people who think the free market is the perfect system. Other times it’s the lefties who think total government control is the answer for everything.
Dark-Star on March 15, 2010 at 10:23 AM
Those treatment options are still currently determined by your insurance plan…medicare and lower cost plans may not cover it. Its rationed via market mechanisms. I understand that some final decisions get made by the patient themselves, but only if they have the means, which not all do. That’s my only point. I realize the other failings of this plan, I just get the feeling like those against Obamacare are whitewashing the current system in an effort to make Obamacare as unpalatable as humanly possible.
ernesto on March 15, 2010 at 10:27 AM
ernesto on March 15, 2010 at 10:15 AM
————————————————————
I did not say the insurance companies were perfect.
There is NO system that is perfect. There is NO system that will free us from our woes.
The government running healthcare…..ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!
For reference look at how the GOVERNMENT RUN VA is run and how the GOVERNMENT RUN Indian healthcare is run. Obamacare will be worse though.
THERE is the answer. There is a peak into how utterly destructive and incompetent the results will be.
A COMPLETE DISASTER.
Also… look at Medicare and Medicaid while you are at it.
Obamacare = LEGAL EXTERMINATION
.
ms on March 15, 2010 at 10:27 AM
Medicare denials = total government run healthcare light.
Insurance companies infrequently argue about a physicians treatment plan. In the few occasions that they balk about what treatment plan the physician recommends they ultimately discuss it, come to reason OR fear a lawsuit and capitulate.
batterup on March 15, 2010 at 10:41 AM
It is utterly wrong to make cost the deciding (or even a) factor between right and wrong. I have this argument with anti-death penalty types when they bring up how much it costs to execute a prisoner instead of housing him for life. Øbamacare will reduce medical decisions to an equation of cost.
Kafir on March 15, 2010 at 10:46 AM
No Ovens. They are bad for the environment.
portlandon on March 15, 2010 at 10:52 AM
You just need the right euphemism to make it okay.
John the Libertarian on March 15, 2010 at 11:04 AM
No Ovens. They are bad for the environment.
portlandon on March 15, 2010 at 10:52 AM
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Correct….. No Ovens.
Just take your government-issued little bitty blue pill.
It’s the “fair” thing to do.
You are just getting too costly.
Obamacare = LEGAL EXTERMINATION
.
ms on March 15, 2010 at 11:08 AM
Thank goodness for Sarah Palin and her FB account’s notes section. She’s been saying these things from day one and putting it to the Administration without fear. The only time we’ve heard anything loud
and clear was at the Health Care Reform Summitt, especially from Rep. Paul Ryan. Without her media attention and calling Democrats out, opposition comments would have been stifled. Naturally the media will play up what she says because they believe will see it through their spin and deem it dumb commentary. Instead this keeps making her seem like the loudest sane voice on this subject out there.
Sultry Beauty on March 15, 2010 at 11:13 AM
You just need the right euphemism to make it okay.
John the Libertarian on March 15, 2010 at 11:04 AM
————————————————
That is true.
Just make “going to the ovens” the “in” thing to do, and you would have idiots putting themselves in them and shutting the door behind themselves.
.
ms on March 15, 2010 at 11:14 AM
This is what all liberals fear more than life itself: choice. You pick your insurance plan from the thousands available to you, and then they “force” you to only get paid for the level of treatment listed on the policy you chose — Oh, the horror!
On the other hand, when you have a single government agency telling you what to do, then the actual standard of care they provide is completely irrelevant. Since you have no personal control over your health, no matter what happens, it doesn’t affect your self-esteem. And, from a purely subjective point of view, that’s all that ever matters.
logis on March 15, 2010 at 11:22 AM
ernesto on March 15, 2010 at 9:52 AM
My husband is 72 years old. We’ve been married for nearly 40 years. If he came home from the doctor tomorrow and told me he had prostate cancer, I’d move heaven and earth to get it treated.
Under 0bamacare, all I will be able to do is grieve. And to add insult to injury, my own tax dollars will fund my sorrow.
Funny how ‘free healthcare for all’ doesn’t look so good when it hits close to home…..
koz on March 15, 2010 at 11:33 AM
logis on March 15, 2010 at 11:22 AM
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Oh I see, Obamacare is the more “humane” way. OK.
Obamacare = “Humane” LEGAL EXTERMINATION
.
ms on March 15, 2010 at 11:37 AM
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