Catholic bishops send message to faithful: We oppose ObamaCare

posted at 12:00 pm on March 14, 2010 by Ed Morrissey

The Obama administration last week week attempted to argue that Catholic bishops didn’t oppose the Senate version of the ObamaCare bill as a way of “proving” that the bill won’t fund abortions.  The US Conference of Catholic Bishops has responded by asking parishes to post and/or read aloud a statement that clarifies their position on the bill, which is adamant opposition.  In the statement that many Catholic parishioners will find greeting them as they attend Mass, the USCCB not only declares its opposition but also urges Catholics to contact their elected representatives in Washington to stop it:

As long-time advocates of health care reform, the U.S. Catholic bishops continue to make the moral case that genuine health care reform must protect the life, dignity, consciences and health of all, especially the poor and vulnerable. Health care reform should provide access to affordable and quality health care for all, and not advance a pro-abortion agenda in our country. Genuine health care reform is being blocked by those who insist on reversing widely supported policies against federal funding of abortion and plans which include abortion, not by those working simply to preserve these longstanding protections.

  • On November 7, the U.S. House of Representatives passed major health care reform that reaffirms the essential, longstanding and widely supported policy against using federal funds for elective abortions and includes positive measures on affordability and immigrants.
  • On December 24, the U.S. Senate rejected this policy and passed health care reform that requires federal funds to help subsidize and promote health plans that cover elective abortions. All purchasers of such plans will be required to pay for other people’s abortions through a separate payment solely to pay for abortion. And the affordability credits for very low income families purchasing private plans in a Health Insurance Exchange are inadequate and would leave families financially vulnerable.
  • Outside the abortion context, neither bill has adequate conscience protection for health care providers, plans or employers.
  • Congressional leaders are now trying to figure out how the rules of the House and Senate could allow the final passage of a modified bill that would satisfy disagreements between House and Senate versions.

ACTION: Contact your Representative and Senators today by e-mail, phone or FAX.

  • To send a pre-written, instant e-mail to Congress go to www.usccb.org/action.
  • Call the U.S. Capitol switchboard at: 202-224-3121, or call your Members’ local offices.  Contact info can be found on Members’ web sites at www.house.gov & www.senate.gov.

MESSAGE – HOUSE:

“I am pleased that the House health care bill maintains the longstanding policy against federal funding of abortion. On the other hand, the provisions on abortion funding in the current un-amended Senate health care bill are seriously deficient and unacceptable. I urge you to work to uphold essential provisions against abortion funding, to include full conscience protection and to ensure that health care is accessible and affordable for all. I urge you to oppose any bill unless and until these criteria are met.”

MESSAGE – SENATE:

“I am deeply disappointed that the current un-amended Senate health care bill fails to maintain the longstanding policy against federal funding of abortion and does not include adequate protection for conscience. I urge you to support essential provisions against abortion funding, similar to those in the House bill. Include full conscience protection and ensure that health care is accessible and affordable for all. I urge you to oppose any bill unless and until these criteria are met.”

WHEN: Votes in the House and Senate are expected at any time. Act today!

The USCCB is not known for its adherence to conservative political principles.  Had the House version passed in the Senate, the bishops would have likely been cheering as Barack Obama signed it into law.  Their opposition to the Senate version and their call to activism against it shows just how radically the Senate changed the abortion provisions.  This is not status quo ante on federal funding for abortion, and even the normal supporters of government intervention in health care know that.

I’ll update you after attending Mass tonight on whether that message gets read at my rather liberal parish.

Update: Steven Ertelt at Life News has the report about the endorsement from the Catholic Health Association:

The Catholic Health Association is coming under fire today for releasing a statement not only endorsing the pro-abortion Senate health care bill but issuing a misleading statement making it appear the bill does not fund abortions. The head of a national pro-life organization disabused the CHA in response. …

Despite the endorsement of the pro-abortion bill, Keehan claimed CHA hasn’t diluted its pro-life stance.

“On the moral issue of abortion, there is no disagreement,” Keehan contends. “On the technical issue of whether this bill prevents federal funding of abortions, we differ with Right to Life.”

Douglas Johnson, legislative director for National Right to Life, spoke with LifeNews.com about Keehan’s statement and dismissed the so-called segregation of funds as an accounting gimmick.

“The House and Senate bills do not merely differ on a ‘technical issue,’as Carol Keehan would have people believe,” he said. “This is another regrettably attempt to minimize the substantive issues involved in order to smooth the way for the Obama legislation.”

“In reality, the Senate bill contains multiple pro-abortion provisions, which in total constitute the most pro-abortion single piece of legislation to reach the House floor since Roe v. Wade,” Johnson added.

The CHA didn’t convince the USCCB, either, a group that would have been predispositioned to buy Keehan’s spin.

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Comment pages: 1 2

They should tell the Catholic Hospitals who support it.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100313/ap_on_bi_ge/us_health_overhaul_abortion

CWforFreedom on March 14, 2010 at 12:03 PM

please, please, please let them have said this in their churches this morning.

Skywise on March 14, 2010 at 12:03 PM

I wonder how the many Catholic hospitals will deal with this if the bill passes and abortions are legal and paid for by taxpayers?
L

letget on March 14, 2010 at 12:04 PM

All I have to say is, thank God. Literally and figuratively. I was basically a crumbled, blubbering wreck last weekend, consumed with how both my government and my religion were conspiring against the United States. I had seriously considered leaving the Catholic church as a result of it, because absolutely nothing I have ever been taught in any way defends what the Democrats are trying to do the country. I’m glad they’ve spoken up and set the record straight. I can feel at least a little better about them now. The Democrats, however, are a very different story.

WesternActor on March 14, 2010 at 12:05 PM

CWforFreedom,
Sorry, I was posting and did not see your post.
L

letget on March 14, 2010 at 12:06 PM

Apparently the hospital executive is more concerned about money than about any Catholic beliefs.

katiejane on March 14, 2010 at 12:07 PM

WesternActor on March 14, 2010 at 12:05 PM

You were contemplating leaving the Catholic church over Obamacare? How about leaving because of something like this:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100313/ap_on_re_eu/eu_europe_church_abuse

thphilli on March 14, 2010 at 12:08 PM

The vast majority of Americans hate Obamacare but the government doesn’t care what the people think or want . . . isn’t there a name for that kind of government?

rplat on March 14, 2010 at 12:11 PM

The CC is fractured between its social justice policy and its anti-abortion policy.

A house divided…

katy on March 14, 2010 at 12:11 PM

About damn time. Meanwhile, EVERY congressman’s voicemail box I’ve tried since yesterday is full, and about half the fax numbers I’ve tried this morning are down.

Keep them burning, people.

Fishoutofwater on March 14, 2010 at 12:11 PM

No mention at our small mission church last night at Mass. Our little mission church is part of a much larger parish church but our bulletin is the same and there was no insert in the bulletin either.

fourdeucer on March 14, 2010 at 1:12 PM

katiejane on March 14, 2010 at 12:07 PM

kinda like congress.

katy on March 14, 2010 at 1:12 PM

I’m sorry but I condemn the USCCB for not being more of a leader on this if abortion was the only thing that they care about. Nevermind the bill is bad for so many other reasons, I denounce the UCCSB for not taking a principled stand about abortion when it mattered.

Just like the Pope and Catholic Church has only come around to seriously dealing with child abuse now that it is a big issue in Germany, this is a faith that has become rudderless, leaderless, and poltiicized. The RC Church needs to go back to its roots and that starts with remembering and affirming what it is the church believes.

highhopes on March 14, 2010 at 1:14 PM

I wonder how the many Catholic hospitals will deal with this if the bill passes and abortions are legal and paid for by taxpayers?
L

letget on March 14, 2010 at 12:04 PM

After DC decided to legalize gay marriage, Catholic charities divested itself from those areas where they would have to comply with a law that goes against the teaching of the church. Hopefully that will happen on a massive nation-wide scale so the bastards who voted for Obamacare can understand what true social justice involves.

highhopes on March 14, 2010 at 1:18 PM

So many Catholics and Jews are being fooled by Soetoro. What are they all thinking?!?!? I thought they were all intelligent enough to identify betrayal when they see it.

Ricohoc on March 14, 2010 at 1:20 PM

Well, get ready to get Slaughtered

It doesnt matter anymore who says what…the House will “deem” the Senate Bill as having been passed.

I think this has the potential to divide the country in a manner like nothing else has..

nagee76 on March 14, 2010 at 1:20 PM

thphilli on March 14, 2010 at 12:08 PM

If everyone left churches because of sinfulness, all churches would be empty. There’s a difference between the sinfulness of its members and supporting sinful policy.

atheling on March 14, 2010 at 1:21 PM

What are they all thinking?!?!? I thought they were all intelligent enough to identify betrayal when they see it.

Ricohoc on March 14, 2010 at 1:20 PM

It’s not about intelligence. We have a very intelligent pastor, but he is an Obamabot. Sometimes “intelligence” is blind. Principles are what matters.

atheling on March 14, 2010 at 1:23 PM

After DC decided to legalize gay marriage, Catholic charities divested itself from those areas where they would have to comply with a law that goes against the teaching of the church. Hopefully that will happen on a massive nation-wide scale so the bastards who voted for Obamacare can understand what true social justice involves.

highhopes on March 14, 2010 at 1:18 PM

We still have members of our church with Obama bumper stickers on their cars, rarely in Mass does the priest speak of political issues no matter how offensive they are to the church or society.

fourdeucer on March 14, 2010 at 1:26 PM

atheling on March 14, 2010 at 1:21 PM

Well, when the head of your church is implicated in covering up for the molestation and sexual abuse of hundreds of its priests across the world, I don’t think that a distinction can be made between the sinful members and sinful policy. It IS the policy of the Catholic church to allow priests to molest children, as evidenced by their continued silence and covering up of numerous cases.

thphilli on March 14, 2010 at 1:27 PM

Ya know…I’m kind of envying(yes I know, a deadly sin!)you Catholics right now. A handful of my Episcopal bishops and priests were recently pictured standing pathetically out in the rain urging the passage of this Bill. Yes–they had umbrellas but that’s beside the point.

jeanie on March 14, 2010 at 1:27 PM

Carol Keehan had been on the forefront when it came to the conscious clause debate… so she can’t be dismissed out hand… but the board of that association as a lot of Obama backers on it…

ninjapirate on March 14, 2010 at 1:28 PM

A little too late, don’t ya think? Where were the Bishops and the rest of the Catholic Church last November and December when the Senate was gearing up to pass this POS?

The Catholic Church is always a day late and dollar short when it comes to issues, always waiting for direction from the Pope and lost their way years ago.

This is just one more reason why this bitter ex-Catholic left the church. It’s always about the money, nothing more, nothing less.

Knucklehead on March 14, 2010 at 1:30 PM

Unfortunatey, I didn’t hear anything about this in chruch this morning.

I’m a little surprised. Wasn’t it the support of the bishops that got the House bill off the ground in the first place and got things rolling? Did they NOT know what the Senate would do to it? Are they really that naive? Because if they are then they need to NOT stick their noses into politics. Which a lot of people would appreciate whether the bishops know what they’re doing or not.

Eren on March 14, 2010 at 1:34 PM

The CC is fractured between its social justice policy and its anti-abortion policy.
A house divided…
katy on March 14, 2010 at 12:11 PM

Which is why I am leaving the Catholic Church. I don’t want any part of a religion that preaches ‘social justice’ (read: socialism). That is not what Christ taught- he never preached to Herod Antipas, Pontius Pilate, the Sanhedrin or Ceasar to restructure the social and political systems.

theenforser on March 14, 2010 at 1:34 PM

Well, when the head of your church is implicated in covering up for the molestation and sexual abuse of hundreds of its priests across the world, I don’t think that a distinction can be made between the sinful members and sinful policy. It IS the policy of the Catholic church to allow priests to molest children, as evidenced by their continued silence and covering up of numerous cases.

thphilli on March 14, 2010 at 1:27 PM

Looks like you’ve condemned him already, when he’s just been implicated. I hope you realize that not everything the news reports is true. You seem to be unable to differentiate between policy and the failings of its members (if what you say is true and which I doubt).

atheling on March 14, 2010 at 1:36 PM

thphilli on March 14, 2010 at 12:08 PM

An atheist giving religious advise. Interesting.

CWforFreedom on March 14, 2010 at 1:37 PM

atheling on March 14, 2010 at 1:36 PM

Thphilli doesn’t care about truth . He just wants more hatred towards the religious. It is quite clear. As I proved the other night he is a bigot.

CWforFreedom on March 14, 2010 at 1:38 PM

It’s about bloody time. The Catholic Church has been pandering WAY too much to the left lately, making me consider leaving it.

wildcat84 on March 14, 2010 at 1:38 PM

No surprise. And no real political impact, apparently.

AnninCA on March 14, 2010 at 1:40 PM

Wonder what happens when the offering plates start drying up? My contributions are going to be less and less each year if the Healthcare Scam goes through.

yoda on March 14, 2010 at 1:40 PM

Thphilli doesn’t care about truth . He just wants more hatred towards the religious. It is quite clear. As I proved the other night he is a bigot.

CWforFreedom on March 14, 2010 at 1:38 PM

Yes, I remember this troll. It’s only mission is to post lies and disinformation. It’s evil.

atheling on March 14, 2010 at 1:42 PM

It’s mission = its mission

atheling on March 14, 2010 at 1:42 PM

A little too late, don’t ya think? Where were the Bishops and the rest of the Catholic Church last November and December when the Senate was gearing up to pass this POS?…

Knucklehead on March 14, 2010 at 1:30 PM

The Catholic Church was very involved. In my parish we were given cards to complete urging congress to vote no on any healthcare bill which did not ban government funded abortions or which did not contain a ‘conscience clause’. And we repeated this a couple of times in the past few months.

Trafalgar on March 14, 2010 at 1:42 PM

Here’s a site for Catholics who think they are bound by the bishops’ support of every left-wing cause that comes down the pike; you AREN’T.

Eren on March 14, 2010 at 1:42 PM

Which is why I am leaving the Catholic Church. I don’t want any part of a religion that preaches ’social justice’ (read: socialism). That is not what Christ taught- he never preached to Herod Antipas, Pontius Pilate, the Sanhedrin or Ceasar to restructure the social and political systems.

theenforser on March 14, 2010 at 1:34 PM

I’ve been extremely disappointed in this pope. John Paul II helped bring down communism. Benedict XVI is helping bring it BACK.

wildcat84 on March 14, 2010 at 1:42 PM

Expect even more anti-Catholic bigotry and hatred from the far left, DailyKos loons, like this:

Catholic-Hating Daily Kos Blogger: ‘Stalin Was a Piker’ Compared to ‘the Christian God’

OxyCon on March 14, 2010 at 1:43 PM

Wonder what happens when the offering plates start drying up? My contributions are going to be less and less each year if the Healthcare Scam goes through.

yoda on March 14, 2010 at 1:40 PM

I’ve stopped giving to the Church when our liberal bishop appointed a liberal priest to my parish. During the election in 2008, someone gave me phoney Obama money which pictures him as a Communist. I used it to stuff a tithing envelope. I hope the commie sympathizer priest got the message.

atheling on March 14, 2010 at 1:45 PM

How ca this be? Pelosi, Biden, Kennedy, all Catholics, said it is not in the bill. Surely they wouldn’t lie to us?

Dingbat63 on March 14, 2010 at 1:46 PM

Francis Cardinal George, leader of the Chicago archdiocese (home of various leftside Democrat mobsters, pimps and crooks) spoke this past Wednesday in the south suburbs of Chicago at a Rotary event, and addressed the healthcare legislation very specifically. I was fortunate to have been in attendance.

And the Cardinal was very clear that the church will not support any legislation that encourages or funds abortion…period. Keep in mind that outside of the abortion issue, the Catholic church is essentially a politically liberal organization — open borders, socialization of various human services including medical services, tax the rich, etc. — so his clear statement against this bill was quite remarkable.

Jaibones on March 14, 2010 at 1:47 PM

It IS the policy of the Catholic church to allow priests to molest children, as evidenced by their continued silence and covering up of numerous cases.

thphilli on March 14, 2010 at 1:27 PM

No, it is NOT.

Or were you unaware that celibacy is a requirement for priests.

Skywise on March 14, 2010 at 1:47 PM

Catholics who voted for these guys? What say you?

you were warned.

ted c on March 14, 2010 at 1:47 PM

Cardinal George was also a driving force in the debate at Notre Dame over the invitation to President Partial-Birth Abortion Obama. His Bishops Conference was remarkably, publicly vocal in their opposition to Jenkins and his anti-Catholic stupidity at ND.

Having said that, Cardinal George will be regarded as a failure as Cardinal if the Catholic church is not able to win over their own parishioners on this issue. My daughter is not Catholic; 85% of Notre Dame’s students are. And yet she was not only a tiny minority voice reminding these Catholics that the invitation to Obama violated their own doctrine and the Bishops’ own proclamation — she was frequently the only student in a classroom who even understood what Catholic doctrine says on abortion.

No, really. The student body at Notre Dame so reflexively liberal that they can’t even separate abortion from their own knee-jerk politics. Good luck with that, Cardinal George.

Jaibones on March 14, 2010 at 1:47 PM

Catholic Charities is another leftist outfit I recommend NEVER giving money to.

Some of it ultimately trickles down to help illegal immigrants and fund abortion.

The Catholic Church in America is chalk full of of leftists and the Bishops are not doing enough to protect Catholics from other Catholics.

There is so much shoddy pretend intellectualism in the Church. It has drifted possibly irreparably to the Progressive agenda.

Sapwolf on March 14, 2010 at 1:48 PM

I’ve been extremely disappointed in this pope. John Paul II helped bring down communism. Benedict XVI is helping bring it BACK.

wildcat84 on March 14, 2010 at 1:42 PM

He has his strengths and weaknesses. I have been encouraged by his backbone when it comes to Islamofascists.

atheling on March 14, 2010 at 1:48 PM

Anti-Catholic bigotry on the left, indeed, check out any Catholic thread on Free Republic and you’ll see that bigotry raised to an art form. No slouches here either always ready to attack if the RCC is seen as weakened. I know leave the Church over “claims of abuse” by some percentage of pedophiles and join the Perfect Church of…??? Oh what the Hell, just be your own Pope.

JohnBissell on March 14, 2010 at 1:48 PM

No, really. The student body at Notre Dame so reflexively liberal that they can’t even separate abortion from their own knee-jerk politics. Good luck with that, Cardinal George.

Jaibones on March 14, 2010 at 1:47 PM

I agree 100%. The students there are all trust-fund country-clubbers. I saw them at the Pro-Life March. Instead of singing songs for the unborn, they sing nothing but ND songs that had nothing to do with the event. they couldn’t give a flying f about the Catechism and Catholic belief.

Spoiled rotten punks. They’ve been brainwashed for years with the ‘new’ Catholicism.

Sapwolf on March 14, 2010 at 1:51 PM

There is so much shoddy pretend intellectualism in the Church. It has drifted possibly irreparably to the Progressive agenda.

Sapwolf on March 14, 2010 at 1:48 PM

At least there is some intellect in the Church. I don’t see much of that in some other denominations.

atheling on March 14, 2010 at 1:51 PM

He has his strengths and weaknesses. I have been encouraged by his backbone when it comes to Islamofascists.

atheling on March 14, 2010 at 1:48 PM

Well, he needs to make the connection BETWEEN communism and islamo fascism. Majority muslim countries tend to be leftist statist dictatorships.

wildcat84 on March 14, 2010 at 1:53 PM

Boucher voted “no” in November, but had been listed as undecided. This report makes his position seem pretty clear:

U.S. Rep. Rick Boucher, D-Va., said Friday he could not support health care reform legislation that includes heavy cuts to Medicare, a position he has held since his first vote against the package and his party’s move to push legislation through Congress.

from weeklystandard.com

ted c on March 14, 2010 at 1:57 PM

atheling on March 14, 2010 at 1:45 PM

I’m a Lutheran, but this still applies. When the members of a church can no longer afford to put money in the plate, then just about everything stops….like money to the needy, admin., and the other things that Church donates to.

yoda on March 14, 2010 at 1:58 PM

They’re against this bill simply because of abortion? Nothing else?

So they’d be happy with it if abortion wasn’t an issue?

darwin on March 14, 2010 at 2:03 PM

How can this be? Pelosi, Biden, Kennedy, all Catholics, said it is not in the bill. Surely they wouldn’t lie to us?

Dingbat63 on March 14, 2010 at 1:46 PM

When Teddy died, one of the interesting posts at NRO was on the worst damage he’d done during his life. Not Mary Jo, although leaving a young woman to die was murder.

It was that Teddy made “personally opposed to abortion” acceptable. He was pro-life in the House, and then realized he had to ride the liberal tide in the Senate. He was never called on this by the Church.

Perhaps it was still too soon after the 1960 election, when the issue of JFK “taking orders from Rome” had to be addressed by his campaign. (Anecdote from 1960: Jackie couldn’t understand why JFK’s Catholicism was an issue, because she said Jack was such a bad Catholic.)

Or perhaps it was just the Kennedy name and influence in Boston and the oddity of a bishop publicly saying someone like Kennedy wasn’t a good Catholic. Now it’s gone on too long to change, and people like Cuomo, Biden, Durbin, Kerry, and Pelosi have gotten away with the “I’m personally opposed” excuse.

I think Pelosi has been called in by her bishop for a chat because of some goofy statements she made about abortion and the Catholic church only “recently” being opposed to it. But other than that, the Church has not called out Catholics on this issue.

Wethal on March 14, 2010 at 2:05 PM

The Church is being negligent in it’s duties by not casting out anti-lifers who pretend to be Catholic.

wildcat84 on March 14, 2010 at 2:06 PM

It’s about bloody time. The Catholic Church has been pandering WAY too much to the left lately, making me consider leaving it.

wildcat84 on March 14, 2010 at 1:38 PM

I’m not sure how much non-Catholics realize this but there is the same culture war going on within the Church as there is in this country and along the same battle lines – social justice liberals vs conservative orthodox Catholics. Those social justice liberals are part of the hierarchy that looks the other way when pedophiles/pederasts worm their way into the priesthood. And it is not Church policy to protect those poisonous priests. On the contrary, it is against Canon Law for active, non-celibate homosexuals or pedophiles to be ordained into the priesthood (the vast majority of abuses in the US were male-to-male abuse of adolescents). The liberal commitment to non-judgmental, no consequences acceptance of all behaviors has its own set of consequences and the Church is suffering for it.

I am very glad to see the usually liberal USCCB actually defend the faith on this one. And I’m sure I’ll be equally as disappointed in their position once the amnesty wars start.

inmypajamas on March 14, 2010 at 2:07 PM

Yeah. There is no such thing as “social justice”. The way that they attempt to achieve it is a violation of one of the Ten Commandments, “thou shalt not steal”. There is no moral difference in robbing your neighbor and voting for politicians to do it for you.

wildcat84 on March 14, 2010 at 2:12 PM

I’m sad that the Catholic Bishops buy into the government health care thing at all. Like you say, if it had not funded abortions, they would be all for it.

Jesus said to give unto Caesar what is Caesar’s. I don’t think He thought Caesar was responsible for charity.

Kafir on March 14, 2010 at 2:14 PM

Catholic Charities is another leftist outfit I recommend NEVER giving money to.

Sapwolf on March 14, 2010 at 1:48 PM

The Catholic Campaign for Human Development is another left-leaning group. They gave around $4 million dollars to ACORN before severing ties with them about a year ago.

inmypajamas on March 14, 2010 at 2:15 PM

I think Pelosi has been called in by her bishop for a chat because of some goofy statements she made about abortion and the Catholic church only “recently” being opposed to it. But other than that, the Church has not called out Catholics on this issue.

Wethal on March 14, 2010 at 2:05 PM

Pelosi’s statement was about the Catholic position on when life begins. She was likely referring to writings of Augustine and Aquinas, who the Church doesn’t consider goofy.

dedalus on March 14, 2010 at 2:16 PM

Pelosi’s statement
dedalus on March 14, 2010 at 2:16 PM

Pelosi is pro-choice and the Church believes life begins at conception. Your attempt to play games with this subject is laughable.

CWforFreedom on March 14, 2010 at 2:24 PM

WesternActor on March 14, 2010 at 12:05 PM
You were contemplating leaving the Catholic church over Obamacare? How about leaving because of something like this:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100313/ap_on_re_eu/eu_europe_church_abuse

thphilli on March 14, 2010 at 12:08 PM

I have been steaming mad over this for days. I’m just waiting for it to blow up over here. This is disgusting. I was a cafeteria catholic until I had children because I did not like organized religion. I came back to the church because I thought it unfair for me to deny my kids a spiritual education. Now, I feel duped to say the least. I am so angry that I cannot go to reconciliation because I feel I will lose control of my emotions with the priest. I have no idea how I’m going to handle this long term. I plan on praying over it plenty.

KickandSwimMom on March 14, 2010 at 2:26 PM

Pro Death types are in the habit of lying and spreading disinformation.

http://www.usccb.org/comm/archives/2008/08-120.shtml

CWforFreedom on March 14, 2010 at 2:27 PM

I have no idea how I’m going to handle this long term. I plan on praying over it plenty.

KickandSwimMom on March 14, 2010 at 2:26 PM

Demand accountability .

What have you done so far? It is your Church too.

CWforFreedom on March 14, 2010 at 2:28 PM

On the August 24 “Meet the Press” show on NBC-TV, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D) was asked to comment on when life begins. Democrat Pelosi said “I would say that as an ardent, practicing Catholic, this is an issue that I have studied for a long time. And what I know is, over the centuries, the doctors of the Church have not been able to make that definition.” Responding, moderator Tom Brokaw told her that the Catholic Church “feels very strongly” that life begins at conception. Pelosi said, “I understand. And this is like maybe 50 years or something like that. So again, over the history of the Church, this is an issue of controversy.”

Ardent, practicing Catholic my a$$!

Trafalgar on March 14, 2010 at 2:29 PM

An atheist giving religious advise. Interesting.

CWforFreedom on March 14, 2010 at 1:37 PM

You don’t have to be a champion runner to tell somebody else their shoelaces are untied.

Dark-Star on March 14, 2010 at 2:39 PM

The US Conference of Catholic Bishops prove true the notion that even a blind hog sometimes finds an acorn.

As a conservative and a Catholic, this Marxist organization serves as a continuous source of disgust.

Where were they when the Church was moving pedophiles from parish to parish?

I love the Catholic faith and I attend Mass, but these guys are socialists.

I suspect that all of the clergy at my parish voted for Obama.

Actually, I tell people that I vote exclusively pro-life, which is something most priests can’t say.

molonlabe28 on March 14, 2010 at 2:39 PM

Pelosi’s statement was about the Catholic position on when life begins. She was likely referring to writings of Augustine and Aquinas, who the Church doesn’t consider goofy.

dedalus on March 14, 2010 at 2:16 PM

NO, she was saying that the Catholic Church’s opposition to abortion was recent, in that it was only developed as doctrine in the twentieth century, and had been an open question with differing views within the Catholic Church until then.

And her bishop publicly said she was wrong and needed to come in for a talk.

Wethal on March 14, 2010 at 2:39 PM

wildcat84 on March 14, 2010 at 2:06 PM5

Abortion is morally wrong. So is inviting yourself into another nation in violation of its laws and its citizens’ wishes.

It seems that Holy Roman Catholic Church positions result in more bottoms in pews.

I don’t know why the Daily Kos hates Holy Mother Church. Can’t they see a possible Hugo Chavez in our future?

IlikedAUH2O on March 14, 2010 at 2:40 PM

I don’t se how the Slaughter Solution would stand once the SCOTUS got its claws into it. It would be one of those rare 9-0 decisions.

Maybe Obooba et al know it’s going nowhere, so they want to blame the SCOTUS for OboobaCare’s demise?

Akzed on March 14, 2010 at 2:40 PM

Under the Code of Canon Law of the Roman Catholic Church, canons 751 and 1364, any Catholic who obstinately denies that abortion is always gravely immoral commits the sin of heresy. The sin of heresy incurs a latae sententiae excommunication.

The phrase “latae sententiae excommunication” means a judgment or sentence which has already been brought, in other words, a sentence or judgment which does not need a future additional judgment from someone in authority. Such a sentence of excommunication is incurred “by the very commission of the offense”.

Pelosi, Biden, Kennedy, et al are by Cannon Law excommunicated Catholics.

Trafalgar on March 14, 2010 at 2:42 PM

Wonder if Team Obama will take this as an excuse to move against the Catholic Church, or even against individual Catholics.

They’ve already gone head-to-head over homosexual issues, and a lot of people were furious when the CC made good on its promise to close their doors if they were required to allow gays to adopt.

Dark-Star on March 14, 2010 at 2:44 PM

NO, she was saying that the Catholic Church’s opposition to abortion was recent, in that it was only developed as doctrine in the twentieth century, and had been an open question with differing views within the Catholic Church until then. Wethal on March 14, 2010 at 2:39 PM

No. The teachings of the Catholic Church admit of no doubt on the subject. Such moral questions, when they are submitted, are decided by the Tribunal of the Holy Office. Now this authority decreed, 28 May, 1884, and again, 18 August, 1889, that “it cannot be safely taught in Catholic schools that it is lawful to perform . . . any surgical operation which is directly destructive of the life of the fetus or the mother.”

From the same article:
Three centuries later we meet with the first record of laws enacted by the State to check this crime. Exile was decreed against mothers guilty of it; while those who administered the potion to procure it were, if nobles, sent to certain islands, if plebeians, condemned to work in the metal mines. Still the Romans in their legislation appear to have aimed at punishing the wrong done by abortion to the father or the mother, rather than the wrong done to the unborn child. The early Christians are the first on record as having pronounced abortion to be the murder of human beings, for their public apologists, Athenagoras, Tertullian, and Minutius Felix (Eschbach, “Disp. Phys.”, Disp. iii), to refute the slander that a child was slain, and its flesh eaten, by the guests at the Agapae, appealed to their laws as forbidding all manner of murder, even that of children in the womb. The Fathers of the Church unanimously maintained the same doctrine. In the fourth century the Council of Eliberis decreed that Holy Communion should be refused all the rest of her life, even on her deathbed, to an adulteress who had procured the abortion of her child. The Sixth Ecumenical Council determined for the whole Church that anyone who procured abortion should bear all the punishments inflicted on murderers. In all these teachings and enactments no distinction is made between the earlier and the later stages of gestation. For, though the opinion of Aristotle, or similar speculations, regarding the time when the rational soul is infused into the embryo, were practically accepted for many centuries still it was always held by the Church that he who destroyed what was to be a man was guilty of destroying a human life. The great prevalence of criminal abortion ceased wherever Christianity became established. It was a crime of comparatively rare occurrence in the Middle Ages. Like its companion crime, divorce, it did not again become a danger to society till of late years. Except at times and in places influenced by Catholic principles, what medical writers call “obstetric” abortion, as distinct from “criminal” (though both are indefensible on moral grounds), has always been a common practice. It was usually performed by means of craniotomy, or the crushing of the child’s head to save the mother’s life. Hippocrates, Celsus, Avicenna, and the Arabian school generally invented a number of vulnerating instruments to enter and crush the child’s cranium. In more recent times, with the advance of the obsteric science, more conservative measures have gradually prevailed. By use of the forceps, by skill acquired in version, by procuring premature labour, and especially by asepticism in the Caesarean section and other equivalent operations, medical science has found much improved means of saving both the child and its mother. Of late years such progress has been made in this matter, that craniotomy on the living child has passed out of reputable practice. But abortion proper, before the fetus is viable, is still often employed, especially in ectopic gestation; and there are many men and women who may be called professional abortionists.

Akzed on March 14, 2010 at 2:45 PM

The Catholic church endorsed Obama and gave tacit approval to all of his proposals. I guess they thought they could change his mind about abortion. Stupid and naive. I will never go back to the church until they stop playing in politics.

megthered on March 14, 2010 at 2:47 PM

Abortion is morally wrong. So is inviting yourself into another nation in violation of its laws and its citizens’ wishes.

IlikedAUH2O on March 14, 2010 at 2:40 PM

While I disagree with the Catholic church’s position in immigration and ‘social justice’, there is a huge difference between that and its position on abortion. The sanctity of life is dogma, an article of faith, immigration is not.

Trafalgar on March 14, 2010 at 2:47 PM

Maybe Obooba et al know it’s going nowhere, so they want to blame the SCOTUS for OboobaCare’s demise?
Akzed on March 14, 2010 at 2:40 PM

What do they have to lose? Pass it and have the SCOTUS decide it’s cool or shoot it down; either way the ‘rats get what they want or they can blame the Supremes.

Then when it’s time to nominate new justices, PBHO has a justification for choosing candidates who are further left than himself.

Bishop on March 14, 2010 at 2:48 PM

You don’t have to be a champion runner to tell somebody else their shoelaces are untied.

Dark-Star on March 14, 2010 at 2:39 PM

You are as simple as I thought.

CWforFreedom on March 14, 2010 at 2:48 PM

You don’t have to be a champion runner to tell somebody else their shoelaces are untied.

Dark-Star on March 14, 2010 at 2:39 PM

Oh- And spoken like someone who is completely ignorant of Thphilli’s previous rants.

CWforFreedom on March 14, 2010 at 2:50 PM

The sanctity of life is dogma, an article of faith, immigration is not.

And that means that we, as Catholics, are free to disagree with the Church on social issues such as immigration,and are NOT free to disagree on abortion

Trafalgar on March 14, 2010 at 2:53 PM

CWforFreedom on March 14, 2010 at 2:24 PM

You can check the Brokaw interview. Pelosi is a dingbat, but that doesn’t absolve those refuting her arguments from having the facts of RCC history correct.

dedalus on March 14, 2010 at 2:53 PM

I’m not Catholic, but my parents and extended family members are deeply Catholic as well as conservatives. There is no way Obamacare could be accepted by a Catholic, politics aside.

Perfectly put by Trafalgar:

While I disagree with the Catholic church’s position in immigration and ’social justice’, there is a huge difference between that and its position on abortion. The sanctity of life is dogma, an article of faith, immigration is not.

Trafalgar on March 14, 2010 at 2:47 PM

How the CHA reconciles their support for Obamacare is beyond me.

I want to hear the Jesuits on this one. Our local Jesuit church drives me insane with their uber liberal stances, but Jesuits should be absolutely clear about the church’s position on abortion.

ace tomato on March 14, 2010 at 2:54 PM

You can check the Brokaw interview. Pelosi is a dingbat, but that doesn’t absolve those refuting her arguments from having the facts of RCC history correct.

dedalus on March 14, 2010 at 2:53 PM

Pelosi is a dingbat and a liar, and you are a fool if you think she understands or represents Catholic teaching on abortion. It’s pathetic when social libtards like you go on record defending Pelosi, who LIED at that interview.

atheling on March 14, 2010 at 2:56 PM

Akzed on March 14, 2010 at 2:45 PM

Yes, she definitely did need to come in and chat with the bishop then.

Wethal on March 14, 2010 at 2:57 PM

Now that I think about it, the Catholic Church is now in a similar position as the Tea Party movement.

No matter how many doctrinal or dogmatic differences among Catholics, abortion opposition should be a unifying, rallying point for them. I am glad to see the USCCB take a strong stance. Catholics have a variety of different views and opinions on issues involved in Obamacare, but when there is a single issue that so clearly violates so many Americans, Catholics and non, a unified, clear voice of opposition is essential.

ace tomato on March 14, 2010 at 2:57 PM

KickandSwimMom on March 14, 2010 at 2:26 PM

Tow words for you: Christian Schools.

The basic theology of the Catholic Church is love and forgiveness. The two concepts move man to the angelic.

The basic institution of the Catholic Church is bureaucratic and ossified. The two aspects move it to ignoring suffering and the realities of the modern world.

IlikedAUH2O on March 14, 2010 at 3:02 PM

The Catholic church, and for that matter all Christian’s should be adamantly pro-life and anti-abortion. There is no way to reconcile abortion in the Christian faith.

Rode Werk on March 14, 2010 at 3:06 PM

There is no way to reconcile abortion in the Christian faith.

Rode Werk on March 14, 2010 at 3:06 PM

Not the flood of convenience abortions, that’s for certain.

Sometimes the process of childbirth goes wrong, and for thousands of years people have occasionally had to make the very hard choice of wether to save the mom or the baby. It’s just a cold fact of biology that the process does not always go right.

But thankfully, those situations are becoming much less common thanks to advances in medicine. That’s not a choice I’d wish on anyone.

Dark-Star on March 14, 2010 at 3:11 PM

The Catholic church, and for that matter all Christian’s should be adamantly pro-life and anti-abortion. There is no way to reconcile abortion in the Christian faith.

Rode Werk on March 14, 2010 at 3:06 PM

The Catholic church IS adamantly pro-life and anti-abortion. Other Christian denominations, not so much. One of the many reasons I left the Episcopal church and becam a Catholic last year.

Trafalgar on March 14, 2010 at 3:14 PM

Trafalgar on March 14, 2010 at 2:47 PM

Your stuff, and several others of faith who appear here, is admired by me and some other readers I communicate with. Honest.

But “Dogma” as a definitive and adequate defense for considering moral issues? And on issues with great societal impact beyond the body of the Church?

There are better sources for a condign treatment of the concept but this one falls easily to hand:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/22/books/review/22STEINFE.html?_r=1

IlikedAUH2O on March 14, 2010 at 3:19 PM

For those unwilling to support Catholic Charities for whatever reason, here are two Lutheran alternatives.
http://www.lutheransforlife.org/
http://www.christianliferesources.com/

OmahaConservative on March 14, 2010 at 3:21 PM

The USCCB….too little, too late….AGAIN!!!!
The bishops planned it this way…no other acceptable explanation. They are politically corrupt.

jay12 on March 14, 2010 at 3:26 PM

OmahaConservative on March 14, 2010 at 3:21 PM

Because the Lutheran Church has never supported Socialists? Specifically National Socialists….

darclon on March 14, 2010 at 3:29 PM

But “Dogma” as a definitive and adequate defense for considering moral issues? And on issues with great societal impact beyond the body of the Church?

IlikedAUH2O on March 14, 2010 at 3:19 PM

I appreciate your comment and perhaps need to explain my point. In my 2:47 PM comment I wasn’t so much offering dogma as a defense of the church’s position on the sanctity of life, but trying to explain that the church’s position on immigration and other ‘social justice’ issues is open for discussion and disagreement among Catholics, while abortion is not.

The church’s thinking and writings on the moral issue of abortion which led to the dogma on the sanctity of life are the defense.

Trafalgar on March 14, 2010 at 3:31 PM

Who cares what these jerks think!!!

lexhamfox on March 14, 2010 at 3:37 PM

Dark-Star on March 14, 2010 at 3:11 PM

Admittedly, If my wife, or one of my daughters were in the situation of her life or the baby’s I would choose my wife and daughters. Is that a weakness or lack of faith? The Bible, and especially The New Testament doesn’t grant the right to save the mother over the baby. I also agree it is an extremely rare situation.

That said, the situation of the mother’s safety versus the life of the baby has been used to grant partial birth abortions which in no way jeopardize the mother’s life and is merely a connivence for procrastination.

If a priest, reverend, or rabbi were to confer with the parents and doctor at the last possible moment I would be more inclined to accept whatever the decision.

Rode Werk on March 14, 2010 at 3:39 PM

Precious and Sacred

I don’t think that anyone here would disagree that an unwanted baby has a strong likelihood of becoming a problem and expense for our nation.

And yet we send soldiers half way around the world to kill adults who have a strong likelihood of becoming a problem and expense for our nation.

And then we don’t have the resources to enforce our own laws and preserve our traditional culture.

IlikedAUH2O on March 14, 2010 at 3:44 PM

IlikedAUH2O on March 14, 2010 at 3:44 PM

I disagree. You can spit your meme, it’s still garbage.

Rode Werk on March 14, 2010 at 3:47 PM

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