The nature of rights, and of wishes
posted at 10:45 am on March 13, 2010 by Ed Morrissey
I’ve written on the nature of rights in the past, most recently in the ridiculous context of whether Internet access is a “fundamental human right.” When Walter Williams helps to underscore a point I’ve made, though, I have no problem revisiting the discussion. The eminent George Mason University scholar wrote a brief but powerful argument against the assignment of “rights” to what should be called “wishes,” or perhaps more elegantly, “aspirations” for our fellow human beings:
True rights, such as those in our Constitution, or those considered to be natural or human rights, exist simultaneously among people. That means exercise of a right by one person does not diminish those held by another. In other words, my rights to speech or travel impose no obligations on another except those of non-interference. If we apply ideas behind rights to health care to my rights to speech or travel, my free speech rights would require government-imposed obligations on others to provide me with an auditorium, television studio or radio station. My right to travel freely would require government-imposed obligations on others to provide me with airfare and hotel accommodations.
For Congress to guarantee a right to health care, or any other good or service, whether a person can afford it or not, it must diminish someone else’s rights, namely their rights to their earnings. The reason is that Congress has no resources of its very own. Moreover, there is no Santa Claus, Easter Bunny or Tooth Fairy giving them those resources. The fact that government has no resources of its very own forces one to recognize that in order for government to give one American citizen a dollar, it must first, through intimidation, threats and coercion, confiscate that dollar from some other American. If one person has a right to something he did not earn, of necessity it requires that another person not have a right to something that he did earn.
To argue that people have a right that imposes obligations on another is an absurd concept. A better term for new-fangled rights to health care, decent housing and food is wishes. If we called them wishes, I would be in agreement with most other Americans for I, too, wish that everyone had adequate health care, decent housing and nutritious meals. However, if we called them human wishes, instead of human rights, there would be confusion and cognitive dissonance. The average American would cringe at the thought of government punishing one person because he refused to be pressed into making someone else’s wish come true.
None of my argument is to argue against charity. Reaching into one’s own pockets to assist his fellow man in need is praiseworthy and laudable. Reaching into someone else’s pockets to do so is despicable and deserves condemnation.
The simultaneous existence point is essential to understanding rights, and why innate rights do not require confiscation. Essentially, the acknowledgement of innate natural rights treats each individual as an equal. No one has more of a right than another to the freedom of worship, of thought, of speech, or of property. To treat health care as a ‘right’ means that one individual’s right has precedence over another’s. That requires, eventually, the use of force to resolve. It’s the antithesis of both equality and freedom. That is why the founders’ original conception of rights and liberty didn’t include aspirations like health care, food, shelter, or equal wealth, but only of those rights innate to each individual, bordered at the individual instead of the community.
If one believes that each human being has a “right” to health care, the Internet, or pasta primavera (without salt), then eventually one has to confiscate all of these from the people that provide them. After all, not everyone has the cash for saltless pasta primavera. It falls to government to redistribute the pasta primavera wealth by first engaging in some form of confiscation, of either cash to buy it or the pasta primavera itself. That devalues the property and choice rights of some to the desires of the many.
As a society, we should aspire to making ourselves successful enough that all of us can afford to buy the essentials of life, including the occasional pasta primavera. But no one has a right to the goods or services of another, and those political-economic systems that have made that assumption have proven themselves over the last century to be the antithesis of both liberty and prosperity. (via QandO)









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End Times!
Mr. Joe on March 13, 2010 at 10:51 AM
Mr. Williams clearly and eloquently stated what so many of us are feeling but can only explain as “unfair!”
SouperConservative on March 13, 2010 at 10:53 AM
When the libtards are forced to show on their tax-returns how much THEY donate to charity it’s almost always a paltry sum; not to include old multi-billionaires who are buying indulgences at a prodigious rate. THEY donate 1% or so, e.g. Obama and Biden. THEY are happy to donate your money but THEY won’t donate their own. THEY truly believe THEY have a right to your money.
They don’t.
Mojave Mark on March 13, 2010 at 10:54 AM
Ed, this is simply superb and one of the most clear and splendid explanations of this issue that I’ve seen. Thank you for posting this, it will is going in the rhetorical ammo pouch right now.
+2
ted c on March 13, 2010 at 10:57 AM
Excellent points and very nicely put. Thanks for posting Ed.
JeffinOrlando on March 13, 2010 at 10:57 AM
This is why he is a longest-standing guest host on the Rush Limbaugh Program. What a brilliant, yet down-to-earth man.
kingsjester on March 13, 2010 at 10:59 AM
Walter E. Williams:
Columns, Opinion, Views, Issues
=================================
http://townhall.com/columnists/walterewilliams/archive.shtml
canopfor on March 13, 2010 at 10:59 AM
Walt is right, of course.
But he is not saying anything the communists don’t know. It is only through envy and hate that the Dems can make citizens into clients, and keep them feeding at the trough until they are not longer “socially optimal” and then can be rendered into Soylent Green.
How easily the weak will bind themselves into slavery for lack of the courage to stand on their own.
Aquateen Hungerforce on March 13, 2010 at 11:00 AM
Only a deliberate act of ignorance could refute the simple logic of Mr. Williams.
fourdeucer on March 13, 2010 at 11:01 AM
Hear Hear!
I just wish that a basic understanding of not only the Constitution, but of Economics 101 was a requirement for election To Congress, or a government job.
AW1 Tim on March 13, 2010 at 11:02 AM
I have always loved Williams’ perspective on rights. He is one of my favorite people.
drjohn on March 13, 2010 at 11:03 AM
I like to hear him do Rush’s show. I think Steyn’s on this monday.
ted c on March 13, 2010 at 11:04 AM
Extremely accurate assessment and I agree 100%.
Now, I think I’ll “deem” my federal taxes as “paid” and enjoy the loss of an hour’s sleep tonight.
GoldenEagle4444 on March 13, 2010 at 11:04 AM
I cannot find the quote I want in Frederic Bastiat’s The Law, but you can read the whole thing online here. It is well worth the read. There is lots on legal plunder in there. Read it.
PrincipledPilgrim on March 13, 2010 at 11:05 AM
A few of the wishes in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Wethal on March 13, 2010 at 11:05 AM
This is why he is a longest-standing guest host on the Rush Limbaugh Program. What a brilliant, yet down-to-earth man.
kingsjester on March 13, 2010 at 10:59 AM
kingsjester: I heard him a few times as well,filling in for
Rush,and a joy to listen to!:)
canopfor on March 13, 2010 at 11:06 AM
Obama Akbar!
Mr. Joe on March 13, 2010 at 11:06 AM
Ditto.
Freedom is a gift from God not a grant from government.
cartooner on March 13, 2010 at 11:06 AM
See you on the field then, because the ‘rats will push their scheme through.
Bishop on March 13, 2010 at 11:06 AM
Walter E Williams – Economics of Liberty
=========================================
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUL152yGVGI
canopfor on March 13, 2010 at 11:07 AM
Ed,
This is good stuff, but please explain to me why you don’t see a category error here:
Worship, though, speech, yes. But property? If I have a right to own some article, then everybody else is excluded from owning that particular article while I own it. The entire argument breaks down when you include property rights, because if I have a right to a particular property, you simultaneously do not have a right to it.
Given that the right to private property is even more fundamental to individual liberty than are the rights to free speech, free thought, and free worship, I’d say you either have to refine the argument or find some other basis for claiming the fundamental nature of individual rights.
But I do want to be set straight on this if I’m making an error, so please help me understand how property rights fit into your formulation based on simultaneous rights.
philwynk on March 13, 2010 at 11:09 AM
Very well stated by Mr. Williams, and very well seconded by Mr. Morrissey.
I think every high school civics class (if they still exist) should cover the nature of rights. It might shut some people up.
SCSoxFan on March 13, 2010 at 11:09 AM
Growing up, I heard far too many times from my mom “wish in one hand, spit in the other, see which one fills up first.” The Dems have figured out how to fill the wish hand first, using confiscated wealth.
Walter Williams 2012
GnuBreed on March 13, 2010 at 11:10 AM
In the alternate universe, Walter Williams is President and BH Obama is in cell # 322 on the green mile awaiting his brush with destiny. Sentence? Treason.
katy on March 13, 2010 at 11:10 AM
Boortz has been saying this same thing for many years now.
The only time government has a ‘right’ to take a portion of a free person’s life is for jury duty.
A small price to pay for living in a ‘free’ society.
Lanceman on March 13, 2010 at 11:13 AM
The liberal will say that if we truly wish for others to have it then we will require that the government provide it.
We have gone from a paradigm of the government is here to protect our rights to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness to the government is here to protect a “right” of an individual to not have less than “equal treatment” in all respects. But, it is only unequal treatment that gives humans (and all other creatures) the motivation to produce their best.
Entitlements are a vicious cycle in which the apatite for entitlement becomes only more voracious with every succeeding generation.
oakland on March 13, 2010 at 11:15 AM
If you have a right
To the service I provide,
I must be your slave.
Haiku Guy on March 13, 2010 at 11:15 AM
Obama Creates Commission to Study Nation’s Budget Problems; Appoints Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus to Serve as Chair and Co-Chair
Mervis Winter on March 13, 2010 at 11:16 AM
This would undermine the Liberal arguement about govt providing roads and other infrastructure…….
I can use the road for travel anytime I wish, without imposing on anyone else……..they are no more a right than health care, but can at least be argued they impose impartially—ie everyone who drives pays gas tax.
problem with Liberals “religions” (Health care, Warmers, Big govt etc)……a person’s use will require, as W.E. Williams describes, wealth redistribution being imposed on me via taxation or worse, so those not paying any taxs (ie predominatly dem’cats) get benefits……
that again is why it has nothing to do w/ Health Care, and all about expansion of govt.
sbark on March 13, 2010 at 11:17 AM
Gonna go to ‘ratville….. Live in a ‘rat city…
Lanceman on March 13, 2010 at 11:17 AM
The concept is too simple for the simple–or too honest for the thieves.
baldilocks on March 13, 2010 at 11:18 AM
I think you miss the point. No one has a right to property. One has a right to buy property, if one can afford it. You have a right to own property, just not any particular parcel.
Pelayo on March 13, 2010 at 11:20 AM
Hard to get blood from a stone to pay for these things. I don’t intend on being one of the sheep who dutifully shuffle off to the rice paddies every day to pay for someone else’s dole.
I barter for services and goods now and then as it is, I’ll just have to figure out a method to do it on a greater basis.
Bishop on March 13, 2010 at 11:21 AM
On Property Rights:
Classic Liberal View
Only Possible Defense of Private Property
PrincipledPilgrim on March 13, 2010 at 11:22 AM
Fantastic post which simply and succinctly sets forth what rights should and should not be. I’ve shared this post with my whole family. They all – even the youngest – got it because it makes perfect sense!
KickandSwimMom on March 13, 2010 at 11:22 AM
It goes without saying that the property being discussed by Mr. Williams is private property.
baldilocks on March 13, 2010 at 11:23 AM
Good article, simply and clearly stated.
jeanie on March 13, 2010 at 11:24 AM
James Madison on Property
PrincipledPilgrim on March 13, 2010 at 11:24 AM
Now if only we could look at the actual theoretical underpinnings of rights in the first place with such rigor! Sure, once you assume self ownership and property, other things follow…but why assume self ownership and property in the way that we do? When was the last time anyone glanced at Locke’s Treatises for interesting caveats like the proviso on land ownership?
ernesto on March 13, 2010 at 11:25 AM
This is from a letter to the editor in this morning’s paper.
This is the attitude that we are dealing with. This writer has no idea the true meaning of the 9th Amendment.
Jvette on March 13, 2010 at 11:26 AM
Brilliant point.
fourdeucer on March 13, 2010 at 11:27 AM
Actually, for gov’t to give one dollar to citizen A, it probably has to take two dollars from citizen B. Bureaucracy is expensive!
jgapinoy on March 13, 2010 at 11:28 AM
Uh oh!!
http://www.redstate.com/brian_d/2010/03/13/van-hollen-advises-silence-on-unconstitutional-obamacare-procedure/
katy on March 13, 2010 at 11:29 AM
I just taught this very topic in my class this weak:
Human or natural rights obligate no one else but the one who exercises who bears 100% of the responsibility of the consequences–e.g. right to life.
Civil rights, enshrined by government, obligate the government (and the governed by consent) only in their legal defense; otherwise, the responsibility is still borne by the one exercising the civil right–e.g. right to a jury trial.
Entitlements obligate others for their provision and almost all of the subsequent responsibility–e.g. Medicaid.
Therefore, health care can never be a right, only an entitlement.
Those supporting “universal health care” as an entitlement would be intellectually honest, but they would never do it because of the positive political connotation with the term right (moral = good) vs. the negative with entitlement (welfare = bad).
Health care as a right is mere marketing not morality.
Joe C. on March 13, 2010 at 11:29 AM
Education: It is not a right when the government punishes someone for not sending their kids to school. It becomes a compulsion and that is the opposite of liberty.
Pelayo on March 13, 2010 at 11:31 AM
Walter Williams lives in an imaginary world where one person’s rights do not impose upon another person.
If such a boundary is not associated with a true right, then many of Ed’s most cherished posts leading to discussions on the bearing of arms, the smoking of marijuana, abortion, speech — all these are not at the boundary of any discussions of true rights at all, but of some fake right which we ought not to have.
The moment you claim that the rights to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness exist, you’ve set up a triad of rights which conflict with each other.
As a simple example, Mr. William’s stated “right to travel” conflicts with racist motel owners’ rights to use their property as they please. If Mr. Williams were confronted along his entire route with purveyors of accommodation whose choice not to sell to him were firmly fixed by property rights into law, his “right to travel” would be significantly restricted.
I personally believe that there is a right to the Internet which is identical to a right to print what one wishes. It is a natural extension of freedom of expression. Notice that I do not say that if one wishes to print something or wishes to publish something on the Internet that the government is obligated to provide a printing press or a network connection — what I am saying is that the Government cannot stand in the way of one attempting to do the same without very, very, good reasons.
We’ve had hundreds of comments on the putative free speech rights of Westboro Baptist Church (the Phelps’) to demonstrate near private funerary gatherings, which right comes up against the rights to privacy of a family burying their loved one. Each side views their right as prime — it trumps any other right.
I agree with Mr. William’s statement on a putative right to healthcare, If such a right truly exists, it must be universal. Then there can be no “death panels” determining when a person should be denied a particular healthcare procedure, and any “Good Samaritan” law must obligate a response to a healthcare emergency.
However, his initial premise that true rights do not conflict with each other is false on its face.
unclesmrgol on March 13, 2010 at 11:31 AM
Yet another reason we must destroy the UN! It’s not enough to simply withdraw, because the UN will be up to all sorts of mischief without us. We must stop contributing money to it and vetoing everything in the Security Council until the United Nations dies!
thuja on March 13, 2010 at 11:35 AM
philwynk on March 13, 2010 at 11:09 AM
I do not contest your right to own property. What is rightfully yours is yours. Simultaneously, I have a right to earn my own property. No conflict of rights here. The conflict arises when I demand a right to possess what is yours.
Capice?
FOWG1 on March 13, 2010 at 11:46 AM
***
Good job, Ed. Walter Williams “gets it right” in a few succinct, clear statements. Compare his thinking to what Karl Marx wants–”From each according to his abilities–to each according to his needs.” With the government keeping a lot of it for themselves, and using the power of the gun and prison to steal it in the first place.
***
Democrats / liberals / socialists / statists / marxists / communists believe in charity only when using Other People’s Money–not their own! How much has Comrade Obama (PBUH) sent to help his partially disabled Kenyan half brother George–who lives on a few dollars a month? Would you help out your brother–with your own money?
***
John Bibb
***
rocketman on March 13, 2010 at 11:49 AM
Why are taxes collected for welfare described with terms like coercive, but not taxes collected for defense?
ernesto on March 13, 2010 at 11:54 AM
Unfortunately William’s explanation or rights is oversimplified because it doesn’t account for the our national security needs and our need for recourse to the law.
National security so expensive that it’s probably impossible to provide without setting the precedent that a person does not have the right to his earnings. We’ve developed valuable domestic and international assets, trading partners and markets that will be taken away if they’re not defended. That requires very advanced standing armies, foreign services, intelligence, border patrol etc… Since everyone uses that but will never agree on how much to spend on it, we either have to become defenseless or invalidate the principle that we have a right to our earnings.
Similarly, a system of justice and law enforcement must be paid for. It’s at least “possible” to recognize only the legal rights of those who pay for their protection. Such a radical change is probably politically impossible in our lifetimes.
The only way that I can imagine an absolute recognition of our right to property would take generations to properly implement, and would involve a dreaded “One World Government”. I would require a loss of national sovereignty through the loss of all nations’ rights to initial the retaliatory use of force (to declare war). This is similar to the way citizens of a single nation are prohibited from “declaring war” on each other for some perceived offense. I’m not sure if such a utopia is possible, but it’s the only environment in which Ron William’s explanation of right are fully valid.
elfman on March 13, 2010 at 11:55 AM
I think Dr. Williams is saying the samething as Davy Crokett’s famous charity speech before congress,just a little more eloquently.
“We have the right as individuals to give away as much of our own money as we please in charity; but as members of Congress we have no right to appropriate a dollar of the public money”.
Davy Crockett
historian on March 13, 2010 at 11:59 AM
When I went to George Mason University in the late 90s, he was the the Head of the Economics Department. If you were lucky enough to get into one of his classes, which I was, your life is better off for it. As evidence I give you Walter Williams’ Wisdom of the Month:
uknowmorethanme on March 13, 2010 at 12:00 PM
You have over-complexified it (I know that word doesn’t exist but it sounds cool).
The things you speak of were addressed by the Founders. The reason they were addressed is precisely because it is necessary for the greater good of the Nation while insuring the protection of the Rights of the people. As evidence, I give you the U.S. Constitution.
uknowmorethanme on March 13, 2010 at 12:04 PM
Slightly related. The latest nominee for the Ninth Circus, Goodwin Liu, should fit right in. Powerline had some insight into Liu’s legal philosophy. Liu had objected to the nomination of John Roberts to be Chief Justice. One of Liu’s criticism of Roberts was that Roberts belonged to several organizations that Liu didn’t approve of:
“Before becoming a judge, he [Roberts] belonged to the Republican National Lawyers’ Association and the National Legal Center for the Public Interest, whose mission is to promote (among other things) “free enterprise,” “private ownership of property,” and “limited government.” These are code words for an ideological agenda hostile to environmental, workplace, and consumer protections.”
As Powerline commented:
“Private property, free enterprise and limited government are ‘code words’? No one holding such a bizarre, anti-Constitutional view should hold public office in any capacity, certainly not as a judge.”
Wethal on March 13, 2010 at 12:05 PM
Walter Williams is, once again, brilliant. And Mrs. Williams has my continuing sympathy.
Cicero43 on March 13, 2010 at 12:06 PM
What a middle-aged white racist. Oh, wait…..
Maybe someone ought to make sure that Olberdouche, Gag-ralph-alo, Fatthews, Madcow, et al, should get a copy of these words from this common-sensed AMERICAN.
HAnthonyWayne on March 13, 2010 at 12:08 PM
I respect and admire Walter Williams. He is a great voice for America.
mobydutch on March 13, 2010 at 12:09 PM
excellent post, excellent, succinct article. I linked to my FB page in my never ending efforts to inform that tiny part of the electorate that crosses my path
Willie on March 13, 2010 at 12:19 PM
Excellent article by Dr. williams…
… I wish I had written it.
Seven Percent Solution on March 13, 2010 at 12:19 PM
Walter Williams lives in an imaginary world where one person’s rights do not impose upon another person.
unclesmrgol
You make a good point, but you’re also missing the thrust of what he’s saying. It’s akin to Jefferson’s “But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.” Speech and travel neither picks anyone’s pocket nor breaks anyone’s leg, but a “right” to health care sure does. Williams was trying to rephrase the notion of “positive” rights versus “negative” rights, and it doesn’t quite work. It might have been better to say, “My right to be left alone doesn’t diminish your right to be left alone.”
shazbat on March 13, 2010 at 12:25 PM
The Constitution gives the Federal Government the responsibility of Defense of the USA. The Constitution does not give the Federal Government the responsibility of welfare
Get it now?
IowaWoman on March 13, 2010 at 12:28 PM
Guaranteeing someone the “right” to the fruits of someone else’s labor is slavery.
wildcat84 on March 13, 2010 at 12:36 PM
Its still a coercive relationship, though. The constitution providing for it doesn’t make it any less an issue the state exercising force on the individual. The means of the state is violence, always.
ernesto on March 13, 2010 at 12:37 PM
Yeah, but you forget that the average liberal is in agreement with Keynes’ dictum, “In the long run, we are all dead” and in the interim, those political-economic systems provide cushy jobs with nice benefits for a bunch of demagogic parasites. In that sense, those “systems” are the greatest thing since sliced bread.
venividivici on March 13, 2010 at 12:42 PM
And thus, standing armies are slavery.
ernesto on March 13, 2010 at 12:48 PM
We need to stop talking about money in these conversations. Money is just an agreement we all made to represent the effort and sacrifice we all make every day to go to work and earn our money. That confiscating that Mr. Williams spoke of is really closer to indentured servituded.
Here’s a fun thought game for your liberal friends: How can healthcare be a right if every doctor has the right to quit his job? If that imaginary and unlikely scenario ever came to pass the government would have to put a gun to the head of doctors and force them to provide rights to the rest of us with our rights. Sounds more like slavery to me. .
oddjob1138 on March 13, 2010 at 12:56 PM
No. The states and the people have granted that power to the federal government via our federal constitution to provide for such defense.
Unfortunately, progressives in the early 20th century created the 16th amendment and have created this dilemma. Now the coercive power of government could be used to force the individual to more likely fund items for which they disagree.
WashJeff on March 13, 2010 at 12:56 PM
The comment I was referring to was plain: Guaranteeing someone the “right” to the fruits of someone else’s labor is slavery.
Constitution or no constitution, if this comment is correct, than all taxes and everything that comes with them are slavery. The point is, this comment is NOT correct, hence the reductio ad absurdum argument I posed.
ernesto on March 13, 2010 at 1:00 PM
unclesmrgol on March 13, 2010 at 11:31 AM
You have always had the right of free speech but that does not mean you get free pen & paper or free newspaper delivery.
If a black person opens a hotel he should have no more requirement to serve whites than a gymnastics studio be required to have wheel chair accessible parallel bars.
TheSitRep on March 13, 2010 at 1:00 PM
Even if they are solely comprised of volunteers?
Del Dolemonte on March 13, 2010 at 1:10 PM
Yes, because they were paid with taxes, and the commenter i was responding said this:
ernesto on March 13, 2010 at 1:18 PM
I think that, historically, the principle reason military expenditures are exempted from this type of thinking is that they represent the defense against an “existential” threat to the populace and, hence, are considered a safeguard, rather than an infringement, on liberty.
For the same reason, the Center for Disease Control would be exempt, because it protects the population from communicable diseases which could wipe it out.
The problem is that health care doesn’t reach that level of existential threat to the population, although it may reach it for individuals and groups of individuals (e.g., those with pre-existing conditions). While I have sympathy for those individuals, I have my own “existential” issues to take care of before helping them with theirs. The government attempting to coerce me to assist them is only p!ssing me off, frankly.
venividivici on March 13, 2010 at 1:26 PM
Ed:
It’s worth distinguishing between the Signers (Declaration of Independence) and the Founders (Constitution) in the context here. Once could easily argue that the declarative rights to “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” which we generally take as the ultimate absolutes were also aspirational until they were codified in the Bill of Rights and attached to the Constitution. Contra the thesis here, the 9th amendment explicitly affirms the existence of other unenumerated rights, and the 10th reserves unprohibited powers to the States (communal) or to the people (individual).
If we are to take the Declaration’s preamble, and the unalienability of individual rights, as gospel, then we must also give substantive weight to the imperatives in the Constitution’s preamble which spells out what could be called our essential communal obligation to provide for justice, tranquility, defense, and common welfare — not just the “blessings” of liberty.
The argument you make against confiscation would apply equally to taxation for the purposes of funding defense, which conservatives themselves routinely characterize as singularly foundational, as well as the administration of justice. In part that’s because consensus on what defense and justice mean is relatively easy to reach. The definition of tranquility and welfare are, and always have been, controversial.
Indeed, the very border you assert as absolute between the individual and the community is precisely what remains unsettled philosophically, politically and practically. It would seem far more accurate to cast the tension between the two as a fundamental, inescapable, fact of human existence, confirmed by all of history. The “laws of nature,” human in particular, suggest that a perfect union of individual and society will forever remain elusive, the balance or border ever shifting. In pursuit of what might be called an aspirational equilibrium, however, the importance we accord the individual in that equation is perhaps the very essence of American exceptionalism.
JM Hanes on March 13, 2010 at 1:26 PM
unclesmrgol wrote:
Dr. Williams has an amazing ability to explain concepts so that even a caveman can understand them, so I have to assume that your mischaracterizations above were intentional.
He never said true rights do not conflict with each other,they need not conflict with each other,” they impose no obligations on others except those of non-interference.” It was you who asserted that, “…rights to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness…” conflict.
As for living in an “imaginary world”, I guess Locke’s man in a “state of nature” put him in that “imaginary world,too. ?
Williams recognizes we are not in a perfect world thus we have government to protect those rights and referee when someone thinks their rights trump somebody elses. Pretty much rights work just fine when we follow the Golden Rule, but not every one does, and there can be legitimate disagreements that have to be resolved.
Only an anarchist lives in the imaginary world you ascribe
to Williams and he certainly isn’t one.
The example of Williams’ right to travel is bogus as well as a right to internet. You don’t think these things through much do you?
cartooner on March 13, 2010 at 1:28 PM
Then we should reduce the amount of things that government does for us as a society to minimize this moral hazard. OUr founders knew this quite well. Sadly we have forgotten.
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
— Thomas Paine
WashJeff on March 13, 2010 at 1:28 PM
From Peter Robinson interviewing Charles Kesler at Uncommon Knowledge at NRO in part 3:
This is part of the essential change of Progressivism and Liberalism – to remove personal responsibility from the individual, impute it to society and then attack society when it does not provide what the individuals should be doing for himself.
A bit later Mr. Kesler talks of the old rights and the Wilsonian/FDR ‘new rights’ and how the character of those two were better than their principles and how it was those principles that would undermine the building of old fashioned character:
It isn’t just the economic cost that goes with the ‘new rights’ that require government to take from some to provide for others, but the erosion of moral and ethical character that goes hand-in-hand with that then makes it difficult to support the old, self-reliant form of character that comes from an understanding of one’s rights being in-born.
Government cannot provide any ‘right’, and is barely able to administer law fairly and equally, which is all that we ask of it. When we ask government to provide for us, we forget that it is the body that we entrust our negative liberties and rights to… and when those are put to work ‘giving’ things to us under the guise of ‘rights’ we then lose our rights and oversight of them to government. That is not freedom in the old sense, but lack of responsibility and accountability. When one is no longer accountable for one’s actions nor for one’s works, and expects all to be provided for them, they are no longer citizens nor even subjects of government, but objects of government.
A very strange place to end up given that we are born free.
But such is Progressivism and Liberalism: freeing you from being someone so that you can be no one and accountable for nothing because your responsibilities have been removed from you.
ajacksonian on March 13, 2010 at 1:35 PM
Absolutely excellent comment.
ernesto on March 13, 2010 at 1:36 PM
Indeed. I’m actually a big Thomas Paine fan, though for reasons that can’t quite be called ‘conservative’.
ernesto on March 13, 2010 at 1:38 PM
You are looking at this the wrong way. When I pay taxes for the military I receive the benefit of my taxes because my home and my life are protected from forein attack. Same with police and fire departments at the local level. If I pay taxes and they are used to provide healthcare to somebody else THAT is akin to slavery.
oddjob1138 on March 13, 2010 at 1:40 PM
It’s probably that you just want to be left alone by the federal government (and maybe even lesser governments). You do not have to be conservative to realize that governments are capable of doing evil. History shows that over and over again. The best option among all the bad alternatives is have less power vested in a government that rules over more people, and more power vested, if the people choose so, in a government that rules over less people.
WashJeff on March 13, 2010 at 1:43 PM
An obvious strawman
Obama has unicorns pooping skittles and rainbows.
aikidoka on March 13, 2010 at 1:55 PM
Whenever people say to me: “You just hate 0bama because he is black”…
I answer right back to them: “You get Walter Williams or Thomas Sowell to run for President, you’ll see just how enthusiastically I WILL support a President with high epidermal melanin content.”
Of course most of them have no clue who W.W and T.S. are, nor the meaning of epidermal or melanin.
LegendHasIt on March 13, 2010 at 1:57 PM
So you’re saying that people who voluntarily take a particular job (without any coercion) are “slaves”? Simply because of who pays them?
In reality, O’bama last year proposed making the military true slaves. Said proposal would require military members to use their own private health insurance to pay for treatment of combat and other service-related injuries.
Del Dolemonte on March 13, 2010 at 2:00 PM
I’m saying that the absolutist logic of all taxes = slavery is faulty.
ernesto on March 13, 2010 at 2:08 PM
A handful of gimme and a mouthful of much obliged.
Wyatt Wingfoot on March 13, 2010 at 2:17 PM
Help me out: who said that all taxes were slavery?
baldilocks on March 13, 2010 at 2:21 PM
Standing on my desk, cheering loudly…
Skandia Recluse on March 13, 2010 at 2:22 PM
Well said, Ed.
JDPerren on March 13, 2010 at 2:36 PM
That depends. In the UK health care is considered a right but it is not a constitutional right here in the US. In the UK health providers aren’t subject to confiscation at all (although I know you used to think this). There is a lively private sector filling in the gap between the care they have as a right and the kind of extra care and amenities that the private sector can sell to patients. The argument that something has to be ‘confiscated’ does not stand up to even modest scrutiny.
lexhamfox on March 13, 2010 at 2:36 PM
Walter Williams once again proves that “brevity is the soul of wit”!! He dissects a favorite argument used by Liberals and then nukes it in only 3 1/2 paragraphs.
He remains one of my favorite true-Conservative writers/speakers. I always look forward to those occasions when he serves as a guest host for Rush.
landlines on March 13, 2010 at 2:39 PM
“…it is necessary for the greater good of the Nation…” – uknowmorethanme on March 13, 2010 at 12:04 PM
If individual rights can be violated by whatever our representatives claim is “for the greater good of the nation”, they’re no better than “individual privileges”.
elfman on March 13, 2010 at 2:40 PM
Ed, thank you for this WONDERFUL post by Walter Williams! Well written and powerful. As I was reading, Van Jones kept popping in my head <em>”give them the wealth, GIVE them the wealth”. Liberals/Progressive Democrats like Van Jones and those in congress, don’t give their own wealth away; they want to take it away from others, without asking.
I have a wish. I wish everyone who wants what I have (health insurance, home, car,) would earn it for themselves.
TN Mom on March 13, 2010 at 2:42 PM
Out of curiosity who determines what a health care provider in the UK can charge for a procedure?
chemman on March 13, 2010 at 2:46 PM
Apparently you need to re-read Walter Williams’ comments on “rights” vs “wishes” above. You completely missed his point.
It is your contention that “free health care” in the UK can be provided without confiscation of anything from someone else that does not stand up to scrutiny. Didn’t it occur to you that taxes are confiscation of someone else’s property? Last time I checked, the UK imposes LOTS of taxes on its populace.
…or do you dispute Walter Williams’ contention that there is no Tooth Fairy?
landlines on March 13, 2010 at 2:50 PM
Well said. I’ll address this to ernesto as well:
I’ll take it as granted that you recognize why defense is seen as singularly foundational, as well as the necessity of funding a legal system. These are the very purposes of a government. When you say, “the very border you assert as absolute between the individual and the community is precisely what remains unsettled philosophically, politically and practically” I whole-heartedly agree. And it is the very fact of its unsettled nature that lays the foundation for objecting to any and every government experiment in this matter. It is not contradictory to be in favor of confiscatory taxation for one matter and not in favor in another. Philosophically, poltically, and practically, there are no forms of government that did not, can not, or will not, in one manner or another provide for defense and justice (such as it may be). Conversely, there are many forms of government, both historical, concurrent, and theoritical, that could provide only those two functions. To speak of government without defense or justice is to encounter the paradox of what is not.
But remember also that nothing the government can provide is a right. National defense is not a right. You do not have a right to a legal system. These are things provided by the government because that is what we want it to do. As Walt says, rights are only those things that come without the help or hindrance of others.
JM, you also write:
There is some confusion here. My right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are not dependent on the state providing these things for me, and my obtaining them does not infringe on those same rights as applied to others. And as I’m sure you’re aware, the Bill of Rights describes what the government cannot do to me, not what it can provide for me. The un-enumerated rights of the 9th pertain to applications of my fundamental rights not covered in the Bill. Simply because they are not enumerated does not mean that the meaning of the word “rights” has changed. Healthcare is no more a right than a new car, even though neither of those are enumerated in the Bill.
I feel I’ve gone too long here. If you would like to object I’d be more than happy to read what you’ve got to say. Sorry if I missed or misinterpreted something.
Aquateen Hungerforce on March 13, 2010 at 3:12 PM
I’ve enjoyed Water Williams since the days he hosted Rush’s show. Years ago.
Ernest on March 13, 2010 at 3:20 PM
I assert that Jefferson’s statement about “no injury” can be logically extended to the behavior of the Phelps family (aka Westboro Baptist Church), and cuts to the core of freedom of speech. For the Phelps to assert that a soldier deserved to die because the US is sinful certainly is an exercise in free speech rights equivalent to Jefferson’s neighbor disputing about God. Hence, by Jefferson’s argumentation, what the Phelps’ are doing is a natural right.
I pointed out how travel certainly can interfere with a right to freedom of association. Dr. Williams might not be able to travel freely if proprietors of inns and restaurants refused to serve him, so our country has determined (rightly so, I believe) that a proprietor’s freedom of association ends where Dr. Williams’ right to travel unimpededly begins. It is obvious, however, that Dr. Williams’ right to travel without interference certainly interferes with the rights of racist property owners of public accommodation.
My point is that there is no right which, exercised to its logical conclusion, will not produce interference.
Libertarians, exercising their rights to the point of interference, are what require an entire system of laws to check.
unclesmrgol on March 13, 2010 at 3:33 PM
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