Younger voters trending anti-abortion

posted at 10:55 am on March 12, 2010 by Ed Morrissey

Given the centrality of abortion to the ObamaCare debate, the latest news from Gallup should have Democrats concerned about the future of their party.  They spent the last few months attempting to push through Congress a mechanism that would provide federal funding of abortions, which has stalled the bill in the House and threatens to kill ObamaCare.  As Democrats attempt this, the youth vote that they so assiduously courted in 2008 has grown more anti-abortion:

Two important changes are apparent. One is a significant drop in the percentage of seniors saying all abortions should be illegal. This fell from 32% in the earliest years of the trend to 16% in the first half of the 1990s, but has since rebounded somewhat to 21%. This long-term 11-point decline among seniors compares with a 9-point increase — from 14% to 23% — in support for the “illegal in all circumstances” position among 18- to 29-year-olds since the early 1990s.

As a result, 18- to 29-year-olds are now roughly tied with seniors as the most likely of all age groups to hold this position on abortion — although all four groups are fairly close in their views. This is a sharp change from the late 1970s, when seniors were substantially more likely than younger age groups to want abortion to be illegal.

The “illegal in all circumstances” is an absolutionist position, and is a minority opinion among all groups.  However, also among all groups, support for restrictions on abortion have been rising since the mid-1990s.  That has a majority among all age groups in this latest survey.  The best that “legal in all circumstances” scores is 28% among the 30-49 age group.  With younger voters, only 24% believe in total legality.

Gallup did not poll on the question of public funding for abortion, but one can assume that those believing in total illegality are not likely to cheer for public funding.  As the youth vote becomes more pro-life, they will also become more opposed to their tax dollars paying for abortions at any level.  The more that the Democratic Party makes itself the party of abortion, the less these voters will remain loyal to them.

The ObamaCare bill is deeply unpopular for many reasons, and for young people, abortion should be a secondary consideration to the economic exploitation they will experience from the individual mandate.  Abortion is a lot easier to understand, though, and expect the chicanery Democrats conducted to protect it to be remembered.


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unclesmrgol on March 12, 2010 at 12:24 PM

Where do you peole live?

Have you checked the population trends for this nation?

IlikedAUH2O on March 12, 2010 at 1:04 PM

If there are traits that make a woman more likely to abort a baby, and if those traits are heritable, then it seems voluntary abortion will tend to gradually remove those traits from successive generations.

Kralizec on March 12, 2010 at 1:08 PM

By Slavery I mean someone owning you and the fruits of your labor, which is what Socialism is, only it is the collective instead of an individual.

No matter what chains society puts upon us, it can’t kill our souls. WE can still work to improve our situation, even if doing so must go against laws or masters.

If there is breath, there’s hope. Killing ourselves and our children is a fatalist move, and frankly quite cowardly.

Like slavery, abortion says that one person’s right to property overrides the life of another. Only if we protect the right to life can we ever hope to protect any other freedom.

Vera on March 12, 2010 at 1:11 PM

I have seen that too, even in CA. It is the internet, which allows them to see that the so called fetus is actually a baby with a a heart beat. By the time a woman can figure out she is pregs, at about 5 weeks, the baby alreayd has a hearbeat and looks like a baby, with arms and legs starting to form.

immigrantchick on March 12, 2010 at 1:19 PM

Well, it’s nice to know I’m not the only parent who raised a “right-thinking” offspring.

oldleprechaun on March 12, 2010 at 12:33 PM

I have six right-wingers to my credit.

I will never forget the evening we left my mother-in-law’s after a dinner where she spent the evening wailing and gnashing her teeth over the evils of big business and how “The Government” should step in and limit how much money they pay CEOs and such. As we drove off my oldest son asked from the back seat, “When did Grandma become a communist?” The younger siblings all speculated that maybe her mind was going now that she is older and were very sad. Warmed the cockles of my heart, it did.

Lily on March 12, 2010 at 1:21 PM

Let’s be clear, if the New GOP wins, they’ll try to fix unemployment, and then do nothing on abortion. Money is more important to them than saving babies. They feel the problem in 2005-2006 was that voters felt some commitment had been made, and they want to win without those commitments.

The answer to this false choice is to dynamite that faction of the GOP.

Chris_Balsz on March 12, 2010 at 11:51 AM

^^ This man has figured out the GOP!!

GOP like “Tea Baggas” … but only so long as they vote for Mittens Romney. “Oh NOES! You can’t have Sarah Palin or Marco Rubio!! No Suh!! … whatchumean you gonna sit home and not vote for Romney? You want Obama to get ‘lected again? You Baggas ruinin’ the party! You know … deh IS a diff’ence ‘tween ObamaCare and RomneyCare!!”

Yeah, I’m a “Tea Bagger”. When I first showed up for my first protest gathering – I found the Pro-Life crowd and they were happy to see us. They showed us the ropes. And the thing is – they’d been at protest rally’s all along trying to protect human life back when the rest of us Tea Baggers were sitting on the couch munching potato chips. Now it seems that the GOP wants to use our energy, and our votes to propel them to victory this year – but they really don’t want us to provide input to them on who we want to see as candidates.

It’s like – you’re the 600 pound guerilla that the GOP needs to accomplish it’s goal – but they ain’t gonna let you eat at the same table with them. Just shut up – call your Congressman, give us money, march, and vote for us – but don’t you dare tell us nominate REAL candidates that appeal to YOU – cuz that a’int happening.

HondaV65 on March 12, 2010 at 1:24 PM

No matter what chains society puts upon us, it can’t kill our souls. WE can still work to improve our situation, even if doing so must go against laws or masters.

If there is breath, there’s hope. Killing ourselves and our children is a fatalist move, and frankly quite cowardly.

Like slavery, abortion says that one person’s right to property overrides the life of another. Only if we protect the right to life can we ever hope to protect any other freedom.

Vera on March 12, 2010 at 1:11 PM

You go quiet literally against American History with this nonsense when men sacrificed their own lives in the pursuit of their Liberation or the Liberation of others. ‘Give me Liberty or give me death’ is the foundation of America and not ‘Give me Liberty but I can deal with enslavement’.

Killing ourselves and our children is a fatalist move, and frankly quite cowardly.

No, sacrificing yourself is the ultimate act of Defiance. It says, I find death the more preferable option.

I’d really like you to have discussed this idea with the Jews at Massada and see what their reply is.

Holger on March 12, 2010 at 1:26 PM

Mark the Great said:

More often than not, children grow up reflecting the political and moral values of their parents.

Which is pretty much what i was going to say, but in reality, I think it’s deeper and more profound. I think children grow into adults whose views encapsulate the most consistent and deeply held views.

This explains why children lean liberal in some areas and conservative in others when growing up in a conservative house.

A conservative often times is conflicted about issues like gay marriage – because there is a definitely sense that individuals have the right to do things, even if we disagree and don’t want to condone them. Conservatives – even religious ones do not wish gays or blacks or the poor or hispances to suffer – and so, there is a bit of conflict in how to approach the problems of those groups.

Children of that household will grow up with great compassion and they’ll see that abortion is a black & white, and these other issues are more complicated.

WashingtonsWake on March 12, 2010 at 1:28 PM

Mark the Great said:

More often than not, children grow up reflecting the political and moral values of their parents.
Which is pretty much what i was going to say, but in reality, I think it’s deeper and more profound. I think children grow into adults whose views encapsulate the most consistent and deeply held views.

This explains why children lean liberal in some areas and conservative in others when growing up in a conservative house.

A conservative often times is conflicted about issues like gay marriage – because there is a definitely sense that individuals have the right to do things, even if we disagree and don’t want to condone them. Conservatives – even religious ones do not wish gays or blacks or the poor or hispances to suffer – and so, there is a bit of conflict in how to approach the problems of those groups.

Children of that household will grow up with great compassion and they’ll see that abortion is a black & white, and these other issues are more complicated.

WashingtonsWake on March 12, 2010 at 1:28 PM

–I think it’s different. I think most children/teenagers tend to be liberals until they have to work full time or until the liberal mentality starts to hurt them (for instance, affirmative action). Then they tend to turn into one of several types of conservatives.

Jimbo3 on March 12, 2010 at 1:33 PM

This is not going to make those abortion hungry, rabid progressives happy.

capejasmine on March 12, 2010 at 1:34 PM

Could it be that the younger generation is using the internet to gather info from everywhere in order to form their own opinions?
I know I teach in a small rural part of conservative ND, but there are lots of Dems here.
In fact a lot of ND folks are socially consv, but vote Dem in some ways (they like their entitlements): but the kids I teach in HS are pretty much against abortion.
And a lot of the ones I meet from across the state are also against it.
From the youth I have had contact with as a teacher, I am seeing a trend in this viewpoint: they are against abortion.
And it has nothing to do with their parents from what I’ve seen.
They have been educated to understand life in the womb.
They see that fetus as a HUMAN BEING & they think it’s wrong to kill it.

Badger40 on March 12, 2010 at 1:35 PM

You go quiet literally against American History with this nonsense when men sacrificed their own lives in the pursuit of their Liberation or the Liberation of others. ‘Give me Liberty or give me death’ is the foundation of America and not ‘Give me Liberty but I can deal with enslavement’.

That’s well and fine for the lot of us adults, but let’s not begin to apply Pat Henry to the unborn toddlers.

KinleyArdal on March 12, 2010 at 1:36 PM

–I think it’s different. I think most children/teenagers tend to be liberals until they have to work full time or until the liberal mentality starts to hurt them (for instance, affirmative action). Then they tend to turn into one of several types of conservatives.

Jimbo3 on March 12, 2010 at 1:33 PM

Wow! What’s it like to be so exalted, that you can cast aspersions, and judgements on others? What’s it feel like to be so above reproach, and so clean of mind, heart, body, and soul? I guess you get to cast the stones eh?

capejasmine on March 12, 2010 at 1:36 PM

My employer has over 200 openings for software and electrical engineers. You just have to be willing to move to a small town to get them.

MarkTheGreat on March 12, 2010 at 12:21 PM

May I ask where your locale might be? And if there are any true openings for beginners? There’s ‘openings’ here allright…for people with a 4-year degree and years of prior experience. Employers are catering to the displaced experts and hopeful newbies like me are having a hell of a time competing.

Wouldn’t mind a small town at all. Dad grew up in one, nice place to go when we’re on vacation.

Dark-Star on March 12, 2010 at 1:37 PM

As a result, 18- to 29-year-olds are now roughly tied with seniors as the most likely of all age groups to hold this position on abortion — although all four groups are fairly close in their views

–Some of that is also due to 18- to 29-year olds never having been around when abortion was illegal.

One way to look at the polling data over the last 10-15 years suggests that there’s a countervailing force going on: If the President and Congress look like they’re going to try to significantly restrict abortion, then more people tend to be uncomfortable with restrictions. And if the President and Congress look like they’re going to try to have unrestricted abortion, then more people tend to be uncomfortable with no restrictions.

Jimbo3 on March 12, 2010 at 1:37 PM

capejasmine on March 12, 2010 at 1:36 PM

Trod on a sore nerve, did he?

Dark-Star on March 12, 2010 at 1:38 PM

“When did Grandma become a communist?”
Lily on March 12, 2010 at 1:21 PM

LMAO!

Badger40 on March 12, 2010 at 1:38 PM

I think it’s different. I think most children/teenagers tend to be liberals until they have to work full time or until the liberal mentality starts to hurt them (for instance, affirmative action). Then they tend to turn into one of several types of conservatives.

Jimbo3 on March 12, 2010 at 1:33 PM
Wow! What’s it like to be so exalted, that you can cast aspersions, and judgements on others? What’s it feel like to be so above reproach, and so clean of mind, heart, body, and soul? I guess you get to cast the stones eh?

capejasmine on March 12, 2010 at 1:36 PM

–How is what I wrote “exalted”, “aspersions” and “judgments on others”? I was talking about my experience with my kids.

Jimbo3 on March 12, 2010 at 1:39 PM

I will never forget the evening we left my mother-in-law’s after a dinner where she spent the evening wailing and gnashing her teeth over the evils of big business and how “The Government” should step in and limit how much money they pay CEOs and such.

Lily on March 12, 2010 at 1:21 PM

You mother-in-law might find some common ground with Thomas Jefferson who said:

“If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered…I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies”

We shouldn’t limit CEO pay, but when the banks are “too big to fail” the government needs to address the structure of the industry in order to make sure the taxpayer isn’t on the hook for mistakes made by a CEO who years earlier escaped after several big bonuses.

dedalus on March 12, 2010 at 1:43 PM

……is an absolutionist position.

Just from one wordsmith to another, Ed: Absolutionist is not a word unless you meant it tongue-in-cheek.

The word you may have intended to use is probably:

ab·so·lut·ism (bs-ltzm)
n.
1.
a. A political theory holding that all power should be vested in one ruler or other authority.
b. A form of government in which all power is vested in a single ruler or other authority.
2. An absolute doctrine, principle, or standard.
abso·lutist n.
abso·lu·tistic (-l-tstk) adj.

KendraWilder on March 12, 2010 at 1:58 PM

I have six right-wingers to my credit.

I will never forget the evening we left my mother-in-law’s after a dinner where she spent the evening wailing and gnashing her teeth over the evils of big business and how “The Government” should step in and limit how much money they pay CEOs and such. As we drove off my oldest son asked from the back seat, “When did Grandma become a communist?” The younger siblings all speculated that maybe her mind was going now that she is older and were very sad. Warmed the cockles of my heart, it did.

Lily on March 12, 2010 at 1:21 PM

God bless you!

If this nation survives, it will be because of people like you! Six? That’s a good number. And you raised them well.

May the choicest blessings of heaven smile upon you.

Chaz706 on March 12, 2010 at 2:00 PM

People who are 18 to 29 years old now were born between 1981 and 1992, all after the Roe v. Wade decision.

Maybe they’re thinking, “My mother could have killed me, and I’m glad she didn’t!”

Steve Z on March 12, 2010 at 2:02 PM

No, sacrificing yourself is the ultimate act of Defiance. It says, I find death the more preferable option.

I’d really like you to have discussed this idea with the Jews at Massada and see what their reply is.

Holger on March 12, 2010 at 1:26 PM

even I know when it comes time to hole up on a mountaintop…pick a whole bunch of mountaintops, not just one.

Chris_Balsz on March 12, 2010 at 2:13 PM

If there is breath, there’s hope. Killing ourselves and our children is a fatalist move, and frankly quite cowardly.

Like slavery, abortion says that one person’s right to property overrides the life of another. Only if we protect the right to life can we ever hope to protect any other freedom.

Vera on March 12, 2010 at 1:11 PM

Some children are born because women chose abortion early in life and then decided to have a family later. Because they were subsequently better educated and financially more secure they were likely able to form a more mature relationship with a husband and provide a more stable environment for their children to grow in.

dedalus on March 12, 2010 at 2:43 PM

Some children are born because women chose abortion early in life and then decided to have a family later. Because they were subsequently better educated and financially more secure they were likely able to form a more mature relationship with a husband and provide a more stable environment for their children to grow in.

dedalus on March 12, 2010 at 2:43 PM

So they decided to kill that kid because they weren’t ready, but they let the next one live because they were ready.

This reasoning is heinous. Wicked. Flat-out reviling.

KinleyArdal on March 12, 2010 at 2:46 PM

Chaz706 on March 12, 2010 at 2:00 PM

Thank you kindly.

You mother-in-law might find some common ground with Thomas Jefferson who said:

“If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered…I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies”
We shouldn’t limit CEO pay, but when the banks are “too big to fail” the government needs to address the structure of the industry in order to make sure the taxpayer isn’t on the hook for mistakes made by a CEO who years earlier escaped after several big bonuses.

dedalus on March 12, 2010 at 1:43 PM

Had she said anything that coherent, they wouldn’t have been thinking “Grandma’s a commie.” No, she was telling us that companies like GM should be forced to pay the janitors as much as the CEO’s because “They work just as hard and it’s not fair they don’t make as much so The Government should step in and make things more fair.”

Now that The Government has taken over GM I am sure we will see those fair and balanced wages any day now.

Lily on March 12, 2010 at 2:47 PM

Be damn grateful that you weren’t one of those unlucky children conceived ‘at a bad time’.

KinleyArdal on March 12, 2010 at 2:47 PM

he is to the right of Atilla the Hun.

Elizabetty on March 12, 2010 at 11:51 AM
Well, it’s nice to know I’m not the only parent who raised a “right-thinking” offspring.

oldleprechaun on March 12, 2010 at 12:33 PM

Raised Right-thinking children, now have two little grandkids that are being raised “Right”. Grandson, who is in 3rd grade, got to go to Palin rally here in Des Moines with me…

lovingmyUSA on March 12, 2010 at 2:57 PM

So they decided to kill that kid because they weren’t ready, but they let the next one live because they were ready.

This reasoning is heinous. Wicked. Flat-out reviling.

KinleyArdal on March 12, 2010 at 2:46 PM

Way too often ‘ready’ meaning “unilaterally decided based on trivial reasons.”

I have some sympathy for women in severe financial or emotional distress…but again, most of the time it’s just some degree of convenience.

Dark-Star on March 12, 2010 at 3:03 PM

…for young people, abortion should be a secondary consideration to the economic exploitation they will experience from the individual mandate.

Yes, the extra money it will cost is so much more important than the unborn lives lost.
*facepalm*

jgapinoy on March 12, 2010 at 3:18 PM

I find the entire idea of bring a human life into this world that would be from the start nothing more than a slave for government masters to be an act of cruelty and aborting it in the womb an act of kindness.

Now that’s a sick thought. So being a “slave” to the government, which violates free will, is wrong, but there’s nothing wrong with violating the free will of an unborn person, who undoubtedly wills to live?

What a twisted mind.

atheling on March 12, 2010 at 3:21 PM

This reasoning is heinous. Wicked. Flat-out reviling.

KinleyArdal on March 12, 2010 at 2:46 PM

It is. That’s atheist “reasoning” for you, and that’s what gave us Mao and Stalin, atheist heroes.

atheling on March 12, 2010 at 3:25 PM

Some children are born because women chose abortion early in life and then decided to have a family later. Because they were subsequently better educated and financially more secure they were likely able to form a more mature relationship with a husband and provide a more stable environment for their children to grow in.

dedalus on March 12, 2010 at 2:43 PM

I really hope you are common sense enough not to feel that this strategy is worthy of consideration.
My unwed daughter just had a baby girl, despite the fact that the father who is almost an RN (from a family who would never abort a child) presured my daughter into killing his child.
My daughter was horrified.
I hope that she does not hook up with him, even for the sake of the kid, bcs I know it will end in disaster.
Bcs any man willing to kill his child bcs it came at an inconvenient time (even though the act of conceiving wasn’t inconvenient) is a POS IMHO.
So they decided to kill that kid because they weren’t ready, but they let the next one live because they were ready.

This reasoning is heinous. Wicked. Flat-out reviling.

KinleyArdal on March 12, 2010 at 2:46 PM

This is true on every level of reasoning.

Badger40 on March 12, 2010 at 3:25 PM

I have some sympathy for women in severe financial or emotional distress…but again, most of the time it’s just some degree of convenience.

Dark-Star on March 12, 2010 at 3:03 PM

My daughter fit that bill of distress.
But she was considering adoption.
We, & the father’s family, are stepping up to make this child welcome & loved in the world.
That’s what ALL families of an unwed etc pregnant woman should do.

Badger40 on March 12, 2010 at 3:27 PM

So they decided to kill that kid because they weren’t ready, but they let the next one live because they were ready.

This reasoning is heinous. Wicked. Flat-out reviling.

KinleyArdal on March 12, 2010 at 2:46 PM

You are addressing a question of “when life begins”. I was addressing a question of the effect on society.

dedalus on March 12, 2010 at 3:29 PM

I was addressing a question of the effect on society.

dedalus on March 12, 2010 at 3:29 PM

And your reasoning is exactly that of Communist China and their one child policy. Glad to see that you’re a commie.

atheling on March 12, 2010 at 3:30 PM

Way too often ‘ready’ meaning “unilaterally decided based on trivial reasons.”

I have some sympathy for women in severe financial or emotional distress…but again, most of the time it’s just some degree of convenience.

Dark-Star on March 12, 2010 at 3:03 PM

Being prepared for parenthood is not at all trivial. A single teen mom is less likely to provide a sufficient environment than a couple that has established a household.

A child isn’t an inconvenience it is a lifetime of dedication.

dedalus on March 12, 2010 at 3:36 PM

And your reasoning is exactly that of Communist China and their one child policy. Glad to see that you’re a commie.

atheling on March 12, 2010 at 3:30 PM

Actually, I’m the one letting parents decide. You are the one who wants the state involved in the reproductive process. I’m not even in favor of a progressive income tax, let alone communism.

dedalus on March 12, 2010 at 3:39 PM

Being prepared for parenthood is not at all trivial. A single teen mom is less likely to provide a sufficient environment than a couple that has established a household.

convenient: making life easier: useful or suitable, because it makes things easier, is close by, or does not involve much effort

A child isn’t an inconvenience it is a lifetime of dedication.

dedalus on March 12, 2010 at 3:36 PM

So a “lifetime of dedication” isn’t inconvenient?

atheling on March 12, 2010 at 3:43 PM

Actually, I’m the one letting parents decide. You are the one who wants the state involved in the reproductive process. I’m not even in favor of a progressive income tax, let alone communism.

dedalus on March 12, 2010 at 3:39 PM

BS. I’m for the state involved in protecting our right to LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, as guaranteed in our founding documents.

atheling on March 12, 2010 at 3:44 PM

So a “lifetime of dedication” isn’t inconvenient?

atheling on March 12, 2010 at 3:43 PM

Convenience isn’t a sufficient consideration. Raising a child isn’t only a question of sacrifice, but also one of preparation and resource.

If a child prevents one from going to a party, that is convenience. If a child prevents one from going to college, that is a different issue.

dedalus on March 12, 2010 at 3:49 PM

Convenience isn’t a sufficient consideration. Raising a child isn’t only a question of sacrifice, but also one of preparation and resource.

If a child prevents one from going to a party, that is convenience. If a child prevents one from going to college, that is a different issue.

dedalus on March 12, 2010 at 3:49 PM

You’re being disingenuous. Mosts people abort because they want to be able to afford iphones and designer handbags instead of buying diapers and formula. It’s all about convenience, and you know it.

atheling on March 12, 2010 at 3:52 PM

BS. I’m for the state involved in protecting our right to LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, as guaranteed in our founding documents.

atheling on March 12, 2010 at 3:44 PM

That’s great. Communism isn’t much relevant to the questions at hand.

How does the government protect life in the first few weeks of pregnancy, especially for mothers who don’t yet know they are pregnant?

dedalus on March 12, 2010 at 3:53 PM

How does the government protect life in the first few weeks of pregnancy, especially for mothers who don’t yet know they are pregnant?

dedalus on March 12, 2010 at 3:53 PM

By punishing anybody who’d kill.

Chris_Balsz on March 12, 2010 at 4:01 PM

How does the government protect life in the first few weeks of pregnancy, especially for mothers who don’t yet know they are pregnant?

dedalus on March 12, 2010 at 3:53 PM

Uh, by making abortion illegal? WTF? What does the “especially for mothers who don’t yet know they are pregnant” part mean? How can a woman obtain an abortion if they don’t know they are pregnant? Do you actually think before you post?

atheling on March 12, 2010 at 4:12 PM

By punishing anybody who’d kill.

Chris_Balsz on March 12, 2010 at 4:01 PM

Sounds likely to be even less successful and more expensive than the war on drugs. However, it also seems politically impossible to pass laws supported by popular vote that prevent women from taking pills just after conception.

dedalus on March 12, 2010 at 4:22 PM

Uh, by making abortion illegal? WTF? What does the “especially for mothers who don’t yet know they are pregnant” part mean? How can a woman obtain an abortion if they don’t know they are pregnant? Do you actually think before you post?

atheling on March 12, 2010 at 4:12 PM

Does a person exist before the woman knows she’s pregnant? If so, does that person have Constitutional rights? Isn’t there some responsibility to ensure those rights?

dedalus on March 12, 2010 at 4:24 PM

Being prepared for parenthood is not at all trivial. A single teen mom is less likely to provide a sufficient environment than a couple that has established a household.

A child isn’t an inconvenience it is a lifetime of dedication.

dedalus on March 12, 2010 at 3:36 PM

That’s why adoption was invented, so children could be given a proper home and live happy and fulfilled lives when their birth parents couldn’t give them that.

OTOH abortion/murder was invented because it was more convenient.

Lily on March 12, 2010 at 4:26 PM

You’re being disingenuous. Mosts people abort because they want to be able to afford iphones and designer handbags instead of buying diapers and formula. It’s all about convenience, and you know it.

atheling on March 12, 2010 at 3:52 PM

Neither of us is a mind reader. Over a million women have abortions in the US every year. I’d guess there are many different motives.

However, given that probably 50% or more are young and single we can objectively say that they are in a less than ideal position to raise children.

dedalus on March 12, 2010 at 4:28 PM

If the abortionists had not successfully murdered 40 million+ people in the last few decades, we would have an extra 40 million people paying into SS and creating markets for the economy.

Why do liberals and lefties hate natural processes so much? From interfering with the markets for housing, to trying to control the weather, to trying to control individual choices, to killing babies etc, every time they throw some “intellectual” solution into the mix of natural selection of human behavior, they cause unprecedented problems.
Why can’t they seem to just enjoy the natural flow of human and social evolution? Such control zealots.

Itchee Dryback on March 12, 2010 at 4:32 PM

That’s why adoption was invented, so children could be given a proper home and live happy and fulfilled lives when their birth parents couldn’t give them that.

OTOH abortion/murder was invented because it was more convenient.

Lily on March 12, 2010 at 4:26 PM

Frozen embryos don’t involve a question of convenience yet most couples don’t offer them for adoption. There must be a different motivation for the couples who have created the several hundred thousand embryos that are now frozen and destined to be destroyed.

dedalus on March 12, 2010 at 4:34 PM

dedalus on March 12, 2010 at 2:43 PM

I do think you’re right that women who wait for the ideal conditions will raise healthier and happier kids, who’ll be more productive to society. In a way, abortion is very efficient in managing society and people’s lives. However, do we really want to be in a society where people are expendable. I’m young, but I hear constantly that people complain that society has become to hard and callous. Abortion and the “me first” attitude are emblematic of this.

Also, just a couple of generations ago, a girl being pregnant at 20-25 would not be a big deal; she’ll be finishing college and starting a family. Now, marriage is being delayed for many women until their late 20s/30s. It’s not that young women can’t handle the responsibility at 20; it’s that society attitudes have changed to extending adolescence well into a persons 20s, which may be good or not.

TimTebowSavesAmerica on March 12, 2010 at 4:36 PM

Does a person exist before the woman knows she’s pregnant? If so, does that person have Constitutional rights? Isn’t there some responsibility to ensure those rights?

dedalus on March 12, 2010 at 4:24 PM

Sorry, but I believe in objective truths, not the navel gazing garbage you subscribe to. Moral relativism is exactly why the West is in terrible trouble. A person is a person no matter what – even if someone else doesn’t think so. You obviously subscribe to the Nazi philosophy that a person is not a person unless someone deems him so.

Our founding documents state that our rights come from God, not from the state, not from one’s mother, and not from someone’s awareness of one’s existence. Bloody hell. You think like a libtard.

atheling on March 12, 2010 at 4:36 PM

If the abortionists had not successfully murdered 40 million+ people in the last few decades, we would have an extra 40 million people paying into SS and creating markets for the economy.

Itchee Dryback on March 12, 2010 at 4:32 PM

You have to net that number against children subsequently born to women who were delaying parenthood and decided on a fixed family size.

dedalus on March 12, 2010 at 4:37 PM

However, given that probably 50% or more are young and single we can objectively say that they are in a less than ideal position to raise children.

dedalus on March 12, 2010 at 4:28 PM

Probably? Show me some evidence.

And again, you are justifying abortion for convenience, despite your dishonest attempts saying otherwise.

Abortion murders an innocent human being. That person’s humanity is not dependent on subjective criteria, which is what you’re proposing. Furthermore, the state has no right to kill a person without due process, which we even afford to the serial killer. However, when it comes to the unborn, they are not granted the same right.

atheling on March 12, 2010 at 4:40 PM

Our founding documents state that our rights come from God, not from the state, not from one’s mother, and not from someone’s awareness of one’s existence. Bloody hell. You think like a libtard.

atheling on March 12, 2010 at 4:36 PM

Actually, I’m asking for a concrete answer about protecting Constitutional rights. There is no relativism involved. Tell me when the rights are conferred and how the government ensures those rights.

dedalus on March 12, 2010 at 4:40 PM

Probably? Show me some evidence.

And again, you are justifying abortion for convenience, despite your dishonest attempts saying otherwise.
atheling on March 12, 2010 at 4:40 PM

Here is a set of statistics that show about 78% of the women seeking abortions were unmarried.

dedalus on March 12, 2010 at 4:48 PM

Wow. It’s incredible and creepy how some people actually believe the govt should be in charge of reproduction.

You’re still a minority and will remain so.

justifying abortion for convenience

No one has to justify anything to anyone. Mind your own damn business, or you will get a list yourself of stuff to justify. It’s quite a slippery slope, there.

Moesart on March 12, 2010 at 5:07 PM

Sounds likely to be even less successful and more expensive than the war on drugs. However, it also seems politically impossible to pass laws supported by popular vote that prevent women from taking pills just after conception.

dedalus on March 12, 2010 at 4:22 PM

I’m not interested in abetting mass murder just to avoid political turmoil.

Here is a set of statistics that show about 78% of the women seeking abortions were unmarried.

I talked last month about the problems of extrapolating a sample to fit the general population. Since nobody has to file any form or register anything to have an abortion, they couldn’t review past abortions. They’d have to just interview the ones who agreed to talk to them.

Chris_Balsz on March 12, 2010 at 5:13 PM

Abortion and the “me first” attitude are emblematic of this.

TimTebowSavesAmerica on March 12, 2010 at 4:36 PM

I think your points are astute.

dedalus on March 12, 2010 at 5:18 PM

>>Moesart on March 12, 2010 at 5:07 PM<<

MYODB and pay for it, huh?

Chris_Balsz on March 12, 2010 at 5:19 PM

You have to net that number against children subsequently born to women who were delaying parenthood and decided on a fixed family size.

dedalus on March 12, 2010 at 4:37 PM

Not sure what you mean but that other than the factor or “kill one..have one”. Is that what you mean?

Thats probably a factor, but the concept still holds for the most part. If one wants to throw in hypotheticals, then you would have to square that with the number who had an abortion and died before they were able to have the one “keeper” etc.. Its seems to be an intellectual exercise that can only go around in circles with no answer.

Itchee Dryback on March 12, 2010 at 5:20 PM

I’m not interested in abetting mass murder just to avoid political turmoil.

Chris_Balsz on March 12, 2010 at 5:13 PM

OK, but you’d still need to get the laws passed in a government elected by voters.

dedalus on March 12, 2010 at 5:20 PM

No one has to justify anything to anyone. Mind your own damn business, or you will get a list yourself of stuff to justify. It’s quite a slippery slope, there.

Moesart on March 12, 2010 at 5:07 PM

You’re wrong. What do you mean “No one has to justify anything to anyone”.

Thats just silly imo.

Itchee Dryback on March 12, 2010 at 5:25 PM

No one has to justify anything to anyone. Mind your own damn business, or you will get a list yourself of stuff to justify. It’s quite a slippery slope, there.

Moesart on March 12, 2010 at 5:07 PM

When it involves bloodshed, yes, you have to start justifying it to other people.

Otherwise, they get kinda angry.

KinleyArdal on March 12, 2010 at 5:26 PM

Notice that all the atheists are for abortion? Gee, you guys ought to go to the new abortion thread about Stupak and how the Donks think it’s justified to reduce costs. They think just like the Commies and you do.

atheling on March 12, 2010 at 5:34 PM

shhhhhhh we’re not supposed to notice they don’t care except in relation to Obamacare.

Chris_Balsz on March 12, 2010 at 6:24 PM

or you will get a list yourself of stuff to justify. It’s quite a slippery slope, there.

Moesart on March 12, 2010 at 5:07 PM

Oh that is already coming. At least with opposition to abortion rights it is about saving an innocent life. The sickness of your mind and others’ is quite scary.

CWforFreedom on March 12, 2010 at 7:45 PM

Notice that all the atheists are for abortion? Gee, you guys ought to go to the new abortion thread about Stupak and how the Donks think it’s justified to reduce costs. They think just like the Commies and you do.

atheling on March 12, 2010 at 5:34 PM

Not all but most.

CWforFreedom on March 12, 2010 at 7:46 PM

Here in East Tennessee, they are actually advertising tickets for the Food City 500 at Bristol. It wasn’t too long ago that the race was sold out about a year in advance. That’s my economic indicator.

Pelayo on March 12, 2010 at 8:50 PM

Ack, wrong article!!

Pelayo on March 12, 2010 at 9:03 PM

Two important changes are apparent. One is a significant drop in the percentage of seniors saying all abortions should be illegal.

Perhaps as they get older, frailer, and more dependent upon others for their health and well-being, they’re finally (if not simply selfishly) beginning to have a better appreciation for the value of life.

Only in high school. By the time they start working and raising a family of their own, most of them come back.

MarkTheGreat on March 12, 2010 at 12:17 PM

When in their teen aged rebellious years if their parents are proved right more often than not they usually return to fallowing their parent’s path, but if they are proved right during this time they fallow their own.

Slowburn on March 12, 2010 at 10:57 PM

So 23% want to make abortion illegal. That means that 77% want it legal. Honestly, I think that Hot Air must have some sort of contractual obligation to bring up abortion at least once a week. Give it a rest. We have been arguing about this issue for about 40 years now and nothing has changed except for making ONE late term procedure illegal. Two ballot initiatives – in Colorado and South Dakota – to ban abortions failed miserably in the last general election. There is absolutely no evidence that the American people want to criminilize abortion. Again, give it a rest Morrissey.

Chekote on March 13, 2010 at 10:02 AM

Chekote, we aren’t going to “give it a rest” because it involves innocent human beings being killed by their mothers. Sorry if it offends you to have to deal with reading about such a yucky thing, but it offends me that it happens with our government’s seal of approval. BTW you are manipulating the numbers to fit your agenda. 23% want abortion outlawed in all cases. A majority want abortion outlawed in all but 5% of cases that arise from rape, incest, or the life of the mother.

Vera on March 13, 2010 at 10:16 AM

So 23% want to make abortion illegal. That means that 77% want it legal.

That’s seniors, which now includes Baby Boomers.

We’re probably going to argue this issue forever, the more bitterly because democracy was bypassed and repressed.

Chris_Balsz on March 13, 2010 at 10:18 AM

Give me Liberty but I can deal with enslavement’.

That isn’t what I said at all. I said that we can fight enslavement, but only if we’re alive. There’s a vast difference between dying while reaching for liberty and killing yourself off when times get rough. You are suggesting the latter.

Vera on March 13, 2010 at 10:23 AM

I would think that convenience abortions would not be quite as popular with the younger generation, particularly given the rising age of women marrying, career-building, etc. A lot of women have postponed childbirth to stick with their careers. And today’s more open atmosphere makes it a lot more reasonable to have a baby outside of traditional marriage. They would not necessarily wish to abort in those circumstances.

It all makes sense to me. I still think that people view abortion as primarily a medical choice, best left to the mother and doctor.

AnninCA on March 13, 2010 at 2:12 PM

So 23% want to make abortion illegal. That means that 77% want it legal. Honestly, I think that Hot Air must have some sort of contractual obligation to bring up abortion at least once a week. Give it a rest. We have been arguing about this issue for about 40 years now and nothing has changed except for making ONE late term procedure illegal. Two ballot initiatives – in Colorado and South Dakota – to ban abortions failed miserably in the last general election. There is absolutely no evidence that the American people want to criminilize abortion. Again, give it a rest Morrissey.

Chekote on March 13, 2010 at 10:02 AM

Agree. I am fairly sure that conservatives on this issue would be totally SHOCKED at the backlash against attempting to criminalize the procedure.

They are living in a bubble if they think otherwise.

AnninCA on March 13, 2010 at 2:13 PM

Moesart on March 12, 2010 at 5:07 PM

Wow. It’s incredible and creepy how some people actually believe the govt should be in charge of reproduction.

By creating a “right” to abortion (through Roe V. Wade) and by creating legal restrictions on the right of states to legislate abortion, the government is, in fact, in charge of abortion.

You’re still a minority and will remain so.

Polling disagrees with you. The trend is our friend.

Mind your own damn business…

Gladly; as soon as the rights of states to make their own laws is restored.

massrighty on March 13, 2010 at 9:43 PM

Chekote on March 13, 2010 at 10:02 AM

Luddite Pagan Demands her child sacrifice!

daesleeper on March 13, 2010 at 9:44 PM

This has nothing to do with the younger generation trending right. This is an unintended consequence of scientific advancement. Young people today have a much better understanding of the condition of the human fetus. More and more women are getting ultrasounds earlier and earlier during pregnancy. I think this is changing people’s minds about abortion.

If I wasn’t already anti-abortion, seeing my unborn child’s heart beating when I was only 6 weeks pregnant certainly would have made me pro life.

Meezles on March 13, 2010 at 11:54 PM

It all depends where you start:

God creates life so life has value right at conception.

Sea slime creates life so life has no value at any point.

Where’s your starting point?

Mojave Mark on March 14, 2010 at 12:24 AM

The abortion argument is being won by the conservatives, albeit gradually. The beauty of liberalism is that it eventually has to account for its failures. The farther we walk toward the lack of responsibility and accountability that left wing policies promote, the more we see how they turn our society into a mess.

Sooner or later we need to face facts. Being civilized is the practice of denying our animal instincts. The more we move toward embracing our bestial nature, the uglier we become as a society. Sexuality is one of the most powerful animal forces on humans. A dignified and civilized human being learns to be the master of it instead of allowing it to drive them.

Unfettered abortion is nothing more than an excuse to embrace our lack of responsibility and accountability in our sexual practices. Some here will say that it is impractical to expect people to always be responsible in sexual activity. I say that such a policy only excuses the lack of responsibility in the first place and exacerbates the problem. Our data shows it to be true.

In an age where STDs are dangerous and incurable we now find that 20% of all Americans are infected with genital herpes. I say that the lack of emphasis on responsible sex practices has created that problem.

The ridiculous social mores of the “free love” movement has brought our society to much greater levels of misery. They would preach that “If it feels good then do it!” even if it kills you to follow their advice.

Fortunately we now understand that the hippie movement was the single largest disaster in American history, and sadly I admit that I was once one of them. Sooner or later you have to grow up and realize that we did a lot to wreck our country and do what you can to help repair the damage. That is showing that you understand responsibility too.

Hawthorne on March 14, 2010 at 10:16 PM

So 23% want to make abortion illegal. That means that 77% want it legal. Honestly, I think that Hot Air must have some sort of contractual obligation to bring up abortion at least once a week. Give it a rest. We have been arguing about this issue for about 40 years now and nothing has changed except for making ONE late term procedure illegal. Two ballot initiatives – in Colorado and South Dakota – to ban abortions failed miserably in the last general election. There is absolutely no evidence that the American people want to criminilize abortion. Again, give it a rest Morrissey.

Chekote on March 13, 2010 at 10:02 AM

Nice way to misread the data. If you looked at the actual poll you would see that 23% want abortion to be illegal in all circumstances. Another 52% feel that abortion should be restricted to only being allowed in specific circumstances. Only 25% agree with allowing unrestricted abortion in all cases.

There simply is not enough information to conclude that the poll has a majority either for or against abortion because the poll does not explore support for specific restrictions.

I suspect that if you say that abortion should be limited to the first two trimesters, you would get a large amount of support for that restriction. Very few Americans support abortion of a fetus after viability outside the womb is reached. As you add more restrictive components the support would undoubtedly wane.

What is clear from the poll is that Americans reached a peak in their tolerance for abortion between 1990 and 1994 and the support for abortion has waned since that time. It is not deniable. Many polls conducted over the past few years show that abortion is at its lowest popularity since the mid-1970s. Do a little Google work and you will see it is true.

While we cannot yet say that legalized abortion has lost its mandate in America, it is certainly true that Americans are losing their tolerance for how often it is performed. It was always justified as being an exceptional procedure and was not intended to be a form of birth control, but statistics show that is exactly what it has become. Especially in minority communities.

Hawthorne on March 14, 2010 at 10:37 PM

Some children are born because women chose abortion early in life and then decided to have a family later. Because they were subsequently better educated and financially more secure they were likely able to form a more mature relationship with a husband and provide a more stable environment for their children to grow in.

dedalus on March 12, 2010 at 2:43 PM
**

You make this statement as though it was with great honor and pride or a great ‘sacrifice’ was made that some mothers kill their babies ‘early in life’ and wait until later in life to actually ‘allow’ them to live – when THEY are ‘ready’ for them. How SICK and EVIL this is! Thank GOD all those innocent, unborn, unwanted little souls are in their Father’s loving arms.

brendy on March 15, 2010 at 3:37 AM

You make this statement as though it was with great honor and pride or a great ’sacrifice’ was made that some mothers kill their babies ‘early in life’ and wait until later in life to actually ‘allow’ them to live – when THEY are ‘ready’ for them. How SICK and EVIL this is! Thank GOD all those innocent, unborn, unwanted little souls are in their Father’s loving arms.

brendy on March 15, 2010 at 3:37 AM

I wasn’t speaking to the morality of their decision. Rather addressing a statistical point about eventual family size.

dedalus on March 15, 2010 at 4:10 AM

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