Quotes of the day
posted at 10:30 pm on March 11, 2010 by Allahpundit
“In news releases, mission statements and interviews, prominent social conservatives increasingly are using the small-government rhetoric popular with the tea party activists and long used by economic conservatives — but with a religious bent…
“‘The reason why social conservatives and economic conservatives can play well together . . . is the guy who wants to go to church all day just wants to be left alone. So does the guy who wants to play with his gun all day, and the guy who wants to make money all day,’ said Grover Norquist, president of Americans for Tax Reform. ‘They don’t agree on how to spend their time, but they do agree on their central issue: They want to be left alone.’”…
“‘We will always have the abortion fight; that should never be given up,’ Tyler said. ‘But when the central issue of the times is jobs and the economy, we can’t just abandon the field. We must provide a Christian message about jobs and economy that is based in faith.’”
***
“I’m begging you, your right to religion and freedom to exercise religion and read all of the passages of the Bible as you want to read them and as your church wants to preach them . . . are going to come under the ropes in the next year. If it lasts that long it will be the next year. I beg you, look for the words ‘social justice’ or ‘economic justice’ on your church Web site. If you find it, run as fast as you can. Social justice and economic justice, they are code words. Now, am I advising people to leave their church? Yes!”
***
“This week the remarks prompted outrage from several Christian bloggers. The Rev. Jim Wallis, who leads the liberal Christian antipoverty group Sojourners, in Washington, called on Christians to leave Glenn Beck.
“‘What he has said attacks the very heart of our Christian faith, and Christians should no longer watch his show,’ Mr. Wallis wrote on his blog, God’s Politics. ‘His show should now be in the same category as Howard Stern.’”…
“Religion scholars say the term ‘social justice’ was probably coined in the 1800s, codified in encyclicals by successive popes and adopted widely by Protestant churches in the 1900s. The concept is that Christians should not merely give to the poor, but also work to correct unjust conditions that keep people poor. Many Christians consider it a recurring theme in Scripture.”
Blowback
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By my understanding it’s iffy. In the 70′s the Congregation for the Teaching of the Faith (I think I got that right?) condemned certain liberation theologians for straying too close to Marxism. Since, it really was marxism with a priest’s collar. But there are liberation theologians going today within the Catholic Church in the global south who haven’t been chastised.
Oscar Romero was a liberation dude and he’s a modern day Catholic hero. But he turned down violence, he didn’t want to bring about revolution. He kept it essentially Christian.
Keljeck on March 12, 2010 at 2:33 AM
Very well, I withdraw that accusation. But I still think you\’re playing a holier than thou game with the folks here. Can you admit that \”social justice\” is hijacked by leftards in the Church in the US? I have yet to hear you admit it. Instead of acting so superior, how about admitting that Beck is right: that \”social justice\” in US churches has become code for marxist redistribution.And sorry, if you haven\’t the stomach to know heresy when you see it, you\’re too willing to allow the faith to be adulterated by false doctrines – well shame on your weakness.
atheling on March 12, 2010 at 2:33 AM
They use the term a lot, sadly more than conservatives. But I don’t think it’s “hijacked.”
And I do call false doctrines when I see them. Some are plainly false. Like prosperity theology. Mary as Co-Redemptrix. Ect. And Marxism is a Christian heresy.
But I don’t draw the line so close.
Keljeck on March 12, 2010 at 2:35 AM
And agreeing on the major points is the important part!
darii on March 12, 2010 at 2:36 AM
Show me a “social justice” ministry that is not leftist. Give me evidence. Because I’ve searched and found none.
atheling on March 12, 2010 at 2:37 AM
Big tent!
Keljeck on March 12, 2010 at 2:37 AM
I suppose that depends on your definition of “leftist.” I’m not aware of too many social justice ministries.
Keljeck on March 12, 2010 at 2:38 AM
Well, don’t you sound like Bill Clinton!
So, how can you assert that it’s not been “hijacked”?
atheling on March 12, 2010 at 2:41 AM
Neither a formal or material heresy, but an issue which is up to theologians to discuss and debate. And thus if you see it as false, ok. I’m not up for a full on Mariology argument this late at night. ;)
darii on March 12, 2010 at 2:41 AM
Catechism.
Keljeck on March 12, 2010 at 2:41 AM
Although the Justice and Peace people in Rome are a bit…iffy. See George Weigel’s analysis of Benedict’s “Caritas in veritate.”
darii on March 12, 2010 at 2:44 AM
I am Methodist remember! I’m too Christocentric for that.
Keljeck on March 12, 2010 at 2:46 AM
Non sequitor. Climb down from your ivory tower and face reality. We are speaking in the realm of facts, not books. A book saying something does not change or mitigate the fact that something exists, which, in this case, is the fact that in the United States, “social justice” in the Roman Catholic Church is almost exclusively about marxist redistribution and covert political activism to achieve that end, even at the expense of abortion. One should rightly run from “social justice” ministries found in his church because it is heretical and contradicts true church teaching on the matter.
You are not being helpful to the plight of the Church when you fail to acknowledge that it has a cancer. How can it ever excise this tumor if its members don’t face the truth and bring reform?
atheling on March 12, 2010 at 2:49 AM
I have some disagreements with that, but I’m also getting too tired.
Remember, too, that the Catholic Church has never been too keen on free markets either. They think it necessarily leads to unjust outcomes. But they are wary of too much Government control, particularly in private property. But what you see in Christian Democratic parties is pretty much what the Church wants at this stage in the game.
I wouldn’t call it socialism, I wouldn’t say it would keep us from reading the Bible the way we want, but it is certainly more left than what we would handle in the US.
Keljeck on March 12, 2010 at 2:49 AM
Distributism is something I’ve been meaning to look into but have never gotten around to. I have a bunch of Distribuist friends. Big on subsidiarity, so it’s compatible with limited gov’t.
darii on March 12, 2010 at 2:52 AM
Glenn Beck: Born To Smear
Bill Blizzard on March 12, 2010 at 2:54 AM
I agree that Beck’s call against “social justice” in that respect is goofy, esp. since I really think the “social justice” movement (in the church) is on the way out.
The liberals are just not interested in taking down the church from the inside anymore. And they aren’t joining. So, they’ll naturally disappear.
darii on March 12, 2010 at 2:55 AM
Bah.
This will be my last post, I’ll try to make it count.
The Catechism uses the term in a specific way that is not “leftist” or “socialist” or “marxist.” And it is used in theological discourse in that manner. If those with a political agenda have used the term, that’s our fault. We should be using it more, but it is hardly an indicator of the heresy of a Church. This is proven by the fact that the Roman Catholic Catechism uses it in a manner different than the one Beck supposes.
And the Church does have a cancer, but it’s not what you think. It’s a poverty of the soul, the fact that we’re concerned about this but we’re less concerned about our hearts. And, to speak from experience, I think there is an issue with idolatry in this nation. We put politics before God. I wedded God with my politcs, as opposed to the other way around. And that is now something I am working very hard to rectify.
I only pray that the Gospel is being renewed, that it is finding new life in the Global South, where its awesome power can be felt again. So that we can recall what it means to truly be servants of Christ. And that it does not mean singing praise choruses on Sunday. It means carrying our cross.
Keljeck on March 12, 2010 at 2:56 AM
Kinda late to troll don’t you think?
darii on March 12, 2010 at 2:57 AM
Gah, one more post.
I’m interested in that too. My fear is that it requires massive government intervention to get the ball rolling, and I don’t know how much of the change would feel like a step back.
Keljeck on March 12, 2010 at 2:58 AM
Sounds about right.
Now we ought to both get some sleep. Night! :)
darii on March 12, 2010 at 3:00 AM
Typical NYT trying to spin social justice as codified by the Church… the only thing codified by the Church is individual charity, which is dead without free will. You can’t redistribute wealth in the name of charity when you’re taking someone’s property away from them against their will. That’s a complete lack of justice right there.
This rotten fruit continues to fall from trees on the left side of the orchard… you shall know them by their fruits.
One more thing to get your head around if you’re for social ‘justice’; Christ said the poor were blessed, not the rich; and he said that the poor would always be around.
So, if being poor is a virtue, and being rich is a liability, what’s with the war on poverty and trying to eliminate it?
Charity, good. Socialism bad. That message has been cut and dry outta Rome. Lefty programs in Catholic sheeps’ clothing? Baaaaa-d.
trace_9r on March 12, 2010 at 3:22 AM
Jim Wallis is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. He’s trying to play on Christian compassion to delude well-meaning people into thinking that socialism is of God.
“Social Justice” is not a term that originates from Christian teaching. It originates from communism as espoused by Karl Marx. What actually is woven into Christian teaching is compassion for those in need, and that must be voluntary. “Social Justice,” on the other hand, is an attempt to put the government at the center of people’s lives, by taking money from everybody and redistributing it as someone else sees fit. It is the very opposite of Christian giving, and it is spectacularly shameless of Wallis and others like him to try to conflate the two.
There Goes The Neighborhood on March 12, 2010 at 3:56 AM
OT: Reid’s wife & daughter Hosptalised
Ugly on March 12, 2010 at 4:07 AM
Best wishes. I mean that.
Ugly on March 12, 2010 at 4:11 AM
Health Care Push??
Ugly on March 12, 2010 at 4:12 AM
Idiot. Media Matters Smears.
Kini on March 12, 2010 at 4:56 AM
Beck is kinda right…
Social Justice is pinko,
But mostly harmless.
Haiku Guy on March 12, 2010 at 5:49 AM
Wallis backed Obama to the hilt.
I will never listen to a word Wallis says.
BuckeyeSam on March 12, 2010 at 6:03 AM
Agreed. Wallis is a redistributionist, open borders communist.
Jaibones on March 12, 2010 at 6:17 AM
Obama:
Can we even leave that church?
drjohn on March 12, 2010 at 6:33 AM
In the book of Revelation, in chapters 2 and 3, Christ describes the state of the churches during the time of his return (described in chapter 1 as the Day of the Lord), the result being that he only found 2 of the 7 without fault. Those churches taught who the kenites are. Such is the state of the churches today.
True_King on March 12, 2010 at 6:37 AM
Social justice, economic justice.
Good job. In this moment Glenn Beck is awesome! More people need to become detached from preachers who would use “scriptures” to advance their agenda.
I am responsible for figuring out my own faithful agenda.
exdeadhead on March 12, 2010 at 6:53 AM
The poor you will always have with you…(Matthew 26:11)
Any preacher that believes we can end poverty doesn’t understand what Jesus was talking about there.
Kafir on March 12, 2010 at 7:15 AM
Wallis, from his own words is ADVERTISING himself as a Evangelical.
But he is a part if the Radical left infection that has left major denominations shells of their former selves. Thank you Beck for highlighting this.
They HATE Beck for exposing their evil wretched work. All rooted in “evolving” man by creating a Utopia on Earth. Unfortunately, that has been tried (getting rid of the hopeless, the “Undesireables”) before.
The work of these Progressives MIGHT be well meaning but it can only logically lead to one place………..mass elimination of people/cultures (kind of like what Margaret Sanger and Hellen Keller promoted back in the day.
PROGRESSIVISM…………EVIL
PappyD61 on March 12, 2010 at 7:24 AM
The Lord helps those who help themselves.
Gandalf on March 12, 2010 at 7:25 AM
Agreed, 100%. I’m not a big fan of Beck, but his isolation of the term “social justice” as the calling card of the Christian left is spot on. The left wing nitwits in my liberal Protestant community church market the left edge of the church to children using that term, and that term only.
It is what defines the Christian radical left, and of course it is an utterly meaningless term in the first place. Confront one of these douches with genuine “social justice” and they blanch.
Jaibones on March 12, 2010 at 7:29 AM
Oh boy…Beck is going off the deep end.
I thought just having a “burning in the breast” was enough to follow someone.
I think that the “code word” for dictator is “living prophet”….see how that works?
This is typical of someone caught up in their own religion, they think they understand all the other religion, and he is going to “straighten” everyone out.
Many militant blacks think everything is “racist”, militant conservatives think everything is “communist”, and militant religious think every other religion is false.
right2bright on March 12, 2010 at 7:52 AM
Quakers…
right2bright on March 12, 2010 at 7:56 AM
THERE GOES THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND TRACE_9R:
Excellent, excellent posts. Both in keeping with what I was taught in my church waaaaay back before my denomination went whole hog for liberation theology. I still have my ‘instruction materials’ from those days. “Social Justice” does not appear anywhere.
God Bless and keep up the good fight.
JimP on March 12, 2010 at 7:58 AM
I watched that show yesterday and was blown away that a PRIEST used his PULPIT and his POWER to derail America. That’s what I fight daily with Our Blessed Mother Maria Rosa Mystica. I fight daily and pray hard, a lot, to get priests back where they belong, soldiers of Jesus and God.
Priests definitely must spread the word of faith, advocate and bring sheep into the herd. Google “prayers for priests and religious” and “Maria Rosa Mystica”. I also pray novenas from the 1st to the 13th like Fátima wanted, so I am now in the midst of it.
That does NOT mean that I will stop any hard work as a custodian of my statues and pilgrimage where the sick are, where there are people that can pray for priests and religious, and where these statues are seen on the altar in churches across my town.
It is a shame that priests use their pulpit to spread hatred, personal opinions and not stick to the Catholic Church’s principles. That’s why the Catholic Church is in the condition that is in.
Pray daily, folks. Catholics, pray the Holy Rosary daily. Pray chaplets, anything! Prayer in itself is a CHALLENGE because the evil one hates that he loses people when more of us come closer to God.
ProudPalinFan on March 12, 2010 at 8:02 AM
Thank you Benjamin Franklin.
conservative pilgrim on March 12, 2010 at 8:03 AM
What makes you say they’re not leftist? You are familiar with their tenets, aren’t you?
Deanna on March 12, 2010 at 8:03 AM
Beck is right and he’s wrong. Many national church organizations advocate social justice, environmental issues, etc. But often the local pastor/priest goes his own way and doesn’t emphasize those issues or does so in more traditional ways. For example, social justice might mean radical feminist viewpoints to the national church but to the local pastor it means the more traditional ideals of charity and acceptance.
Deanna on March 12, 2010 at 8:11 AM
“Religion scholars say the term ’social justice’ was probably coined in the 1800s, codified in encyclicals by successive popes and adopted widely by Protestant churches in the 1900s. The concept is that Christians should not merely give to the poor, but also work to correct unjust conditions that keep people poor. Many Christians consider it a recurring theme in Scripture.”
———-
Jesus said we would always have the poor with us.
fossten on March 12, 2010 at 8:17 AM
Yes. Wallis and his followers have no problems using the govt to realize “social justice.” They have co-opted the meaning of the word. Also, if this isn’t a political issue, then why do they ardently support Obama and Democrat positions? Browse their Sojourners site and you’ll see. Thus is no different than J. Wright’s brand of liberation theology.
conservative pilgrim on March 12, 2010 at 8:19 AM
As with all other segments of society, Marxists have spent decades putting their people into positions of influence and authority. This is no different. Any “pastor” who doesn’t challenge and condemn the blantant Marxism spreading throughout the Christian faith like wildfire is either complicit or blind. There’s no interpretation of “social justice”. It is what it is.
darwin on March 12, 2010 at 8:19 AM
Social Justice, personified. Read it all.
Jaibones on March 12, 2010 at 8:28 AM
Yes I am, you can say most any religious, except for the extreme cults, are “leftists”. I guess Nixon was a leftist, communist, marxist then…
Name one religion that does not have “leftist” tendencies.
Since the bible states we should take care of the “least among us”, does that make the bible leftist?
This is why this name calling is foolish…didn’t Jesus and his disciples have a communal type lifestyle? Didn’t He say allow the gov. to do whatever they want, and you must abide by those rules?
See, one can twist most anything.
Amish, they are “collectivists”, they share, communally among each other.The share their resources and make sure that each is “socially equal”.
right2bright on March 12, 2010 at 8:35 AM
Judas Iscariot: The first liberal.
fossten on March 12, 2010 at 8:36 AM
But He didn’t say we should allow and tolerate society that advocate and create poor.
Obama is creating “poor”, and I reject his policies.
In the 1800′s, companies, politicians, did set up shop to abuse people. Child labor was rampant.
What people have a difficult time doing is separating 1850, from 2010…their was a different world then.
right2bright on March 12, 2010 at 8:39 AM
No where in the Bible does Christ instruct us to use government(or any other kind of force) to help the poor.
In fact, God dislikes it if you are a Christian and you do it for yourself. God deserves the credit and your good works should benefit Him.
DavidM on March 12, 2010 at 8:40 AM
One of the tools the progressives use to infiltrate the church is Asset Based Community Development. One the surface, ABCDs “inside-out” to communities is appealing to churches: See the best in others, then work with one another to strengthen communities with as little government help as possible. That’s the hook, anyway. The reality is that cities that use an ABCD approach often measure success by how many Community Development Block Grants they can collect.
It’s a real bait and switch, and it’s the brain-child of John McKnight, the fellow who wrote the reference letter that helped Obama get in to Harvard.
Inner city churches eat this ABCD stuff up, and it’s gaining traction among suburban and rural churches too. It’s insidious.
pugwriter on March 12, 2010 at 8:44 AM
We don’t disagree here. The point I’m trying to make is that it’s useless to throw money at the poor – i.e. Great Society…because we’ll always have poor people.
Those who try to say Jesus was a liberal are full of it.
fossten on March 12, 2010 at 8:44 AM
Exactly. Christ instructs Christians to help the poor, not to demand that government do it.
ladyingray on March 12, 2010 at 8:44 AM
Deanna, I understand your point, but look at it from the opposite direction. Most of the traditional Protestant denominations have national hierarchies which are profoundly more liberal than the members of their congregations, and they try to hornswaggle these parochial congregations with innocuous terms like “social justice” without ever defining them.
In the Methodist church, the northeastern, urban leadership means homosexual marriage and gay ministers when they say “social justice”, but many Methodist churches around the country are profoundly conservative. They have battled for decades on the issue and it remains a primary threat for schism.
In the Presbyterian Church, leftist central committees have twice voted to divest all church holdings from Israeli companies and companies doing business in Israel. The first time, local churches erupted in outrage at this social injustice, if I may use that term. But here, six years later, they did it again. (It’s fun to note that the PCUSA is compelled to publish on their website a careful statement of support for the State of Israel, because of the widespread perception that they don’t.)
The reality is that these church central committees are heavily weighted with Wallis’s leftist Democrat activists, while the people in the pews go to work for a living.
Jaibones on March 12, 2010 at 8:46 AM
I’m not sure I know of a passage where He instructs that either.
He told the rich man to sell all his possessions and give them to the poor, but that was an isolated example where the rich man worshiped his money and Jesus was making a point about giving up idolatry in order to go to heaven.
I do know of a passage where Christ praises a poor widow for giving all she had left to the church, while scolding the rich Pharisees for giving of their excess.
fossten on March 12, 2010 at 8:49 AM
Progressive language: Verbatim quotes = smears.
Pablo on March 12, 2010 at 8:51 AM
I am not that familiar with the Amish and the Quakers. Do they petition the government for redistribution of wealth? Do they advocate for a system of non-working welfare?
Jaibones on March 12, 2010 at 8:51 AM
I was raised catholic in Europe. “Social justice” in catholicism is there for one of two possible reasons: 1. the Vatican’s Rerum Novarum (1891) and Quadragesimo Anno (1931) encyclicals that inspired and endorsed Mussolini’s corporatism as alternative to capitalism and socialism, 2. marxist liberation theology in the 1960s, especially in Latin America.
modifiedcontent on March 12, 2010 at 8:58 AM
Beck is leading this morning’s show with Jim Wallis. Thanking him for the opportunity to do battle. Heh.
Pablo on March 12, 2010 at 9:09 AM
Churches don’t keep the main thing the main thing anymore. Pay attention to the next service you attend and check how much time is spent on God and the gospel. I was raised a Methodist but several years ago changed churches after the preacher in the pulpit urged everyone to contact their elected representatives and ask them to vote for the expansion of the schip program since it was for the children.
Kissmygrits on March 12, 2010 at 9:21 AM
By the time “social justice” references on denominational web sites is noticed by members of those churches, they already have tolerated ordaining women and sodomists, abortion advocacy, and the denial of basic tenets of the faith.
So it ain’t likely that finding “social justice” on their web site or in the bulletin is gonna cause any indigestion.
Akzed on March 12, 2010 at 9:21 AM
The only conditions that keep people poor are ignorance, or an unwillingness to work.
Govt can do nothing about either.
MarkTheGreat on March 12, 2010 at 9:27 AM
Collective action isn’t a bad thing.
It’s whether or not the petition the government to force action, or “redistribute wealth.”
Keith_Indy on March 12, 2010 at 9:28 AM
I guess we will have to use small words to explain this to you. The tie in is that if the church is into “social justice”, that’s evidence that there is no spirituality in that church.
MarkTheGreat on March 12, 2010 at 9:42 AM
Growing rapidly? Where?
MarkTheGreat on March 12, 2010 at 9:43 AM
See Matthew 22:20
See also the argument used by Christian conservatives when they are advocating that the government implement any other Christian teaching as secular law (e.g. the Bible says pornography is wrong, therefore it must be prohibited by the state; the Bible says to be fruitful and multiply and forbids sex outside of marriage, therefore the state must encourage and sanction marriage, etc.)
The Conservative Christian idea that America is a Christian nation means nothing other than that the secular laws should reflect and enforce Christian teachings (this is exactly what the code words “Judeo-Christian morality” refer to).
hicsuget on March 12, 2010 at 9:47 AM
He wasn’t the only person doing the manipulating.
MarkTheGreat on March 12, 2010 at 9:47 AM
“I had devoted to this subject an enormous chapter in which I had tried to show for a large number of instances that what was claimed as demanded by ‘social justice’ could not be justice because the underlying consideration (one could hardly call it a principle) was not capable of general application. The point I was then mainly anxious to demonstrate was that people would never be able to agree on what ‘social justice’ required, and that any attempt to determine remunerations according to what it was thought was demanded by justice would make the market unworkable. I have now become convinced, however, that the people who habitually employ the phrase simply do not know themselves what they mean by it and just use it as an assertion that a claim is justified without giving a reason for it.”
–F. A. Hayek, The Mirage of Social Justice
DrSteve on March 12, 2010 at 9:49 AM
Reminds me of the guy who insisted that gay meant happy. Nothing more, nothing less. Because that’s what it meant 150 years ago.
MarkTheGreat on March 12, 2010 at 9:52 AM
Beck’s quote was taken out of context by the NY Times. They were discussing this on the program a half hour of so ago and Stu read the transcripts that shows what the NY Times omitted and puts Beck back into context.
mizflame98 on March 12, 2010 at 9:53 AM
OK, what does social justice mean to you. Don’t refer to some church document. In your own words.
MarkTheGreat on March 12, 2010 at 9:53 AM
What is a just outcome? Does it mean that everyone has the same amount of stuff? That’s what most social justice supporters mean. If so, that’s pure socialism.
MarkTheGreat on March 12, 2010 at 9:56 AM
Agreed, just like Beck saying any church that seeks “social…” is full of it.
No, all of you theologians, Jesus did not say for the gov. to take care of the least…but He did say, do what the gov. demands of you.
And if the gov. says take care of the least, then you take care of the least…that is why we must change the gov.
When the word entered the Church vernacular, it was in the 1800′s…do you think social whatever is the same then as now?
Social Justice is not the problem, it is the definition that is changing is the problem.
Similar to the words “general welfare” in the preamble. Welfare then is not the same word as “welfare” now…
right2bright on March 12, 2010 at 10:06 AM
The point of that passage was that God valued the sacrifice, not the amount. The poor woman gave all that she had, even though it was just a few small coins. The Pharisees, even though they gave 1000′s of times more than what the woman gave, it was from their excess. It didn’t hurt them, it wasn’t a sacrifice.
MarkTheGreat on March 12, 2010 at 10:09 AM
There sharing is voluntary, it is not coerced by anyone.
MarkTheGreat on March 12, 2010 at 10:09 AM
But that is why context is so important…an 80 year old man saying his friend is “gay” is different then a 20 year old man saying his friend is gay.
From the confines of a church, “social justice” may be very much different then a “social justice” from a NAACP leader.
That is why Beck’s statement is so foolish…he points his finger at other religions, he should be more sensitive, since his religion so often states “we are mis-understood”…
right2bright on March 12, 2010 at 10:11 AM
After you see it, try reading it. And the surrounding passages as well.
The couple was punished not because they didn’t give everything to the church, but because they lied to God. Peter himself declared, in those passages, that the couple was not required to give everything.
MarkTheGreat on March 12, 2010 at 10:12 AM
Ever see them rebel against the gov. programs? Ever see them reject and deny the course of gov.?
Read my other posts, they are fine with the gov. providing, and they are supportive, certainly not protesting.
Christians are demanded to support their gov…that is why it is imperative we change it.
And what church is coercing with their words? What I am saying is Beck is foolish for making such a broad statement…
right2bright on March 12, 2010 at 10:15 AM
So the American War for Independence was anti-Christian?
hicsuget on March 12, 2010 at 10:17 AM
Beck says nothing about spirituality. His point is that the phrase “social justice” is a tell-tale sign there is another agenda involved. He is absolutely right about that.
modifiedcontent on March 12, 2010 at 10:20 AM
These ‘Christians’ are about one degree removed from snake handlers. Informed people realize that “Social Justice” to the leftists and the fascists is code for “spread the wealth around.” Something about “thou shalt not steal” (taxes) isn’t clicking with these religious zealots.
kens on March 12, 2010 at 10:20 AM
You would (or maybe not) that when these words surfaced in the 1800′s, by the church, it was for specific reasons.
And like many good ideas the left co-opts them and twists their meaning.
That is why Becks sounding off is so foolish, he should be more specific, not “any church”.
Otherwise he is in the wrong church….
right2bright on March 12, 2010 at 10:21 AM
Do you know what the word discernment means?
right2bright on March 12, 2010 at 10:22 AM
Yes. Do I know what conservative Christians take it to mean? Also yes. Do I know why you’re asking? Yes to that too.
You’re asking because you think the commandment to be discerning means that you can ignore the commandment to support your government when you discern it’s not What Jesus Would Do (i.e., when it suits your purposes).
hicsuget on March 12, 2010 at 10:35 AM
Why do churches in the USA need to be sloganeered into doing what they already do? Visit some orphanages run by the Church of God in South Africa or the Phillipines and you’ll see real compassion in action, not some self-aggrandizing politicians in preachers clothing.
Social Justice is a fools game and the fool is you if you’re willing to play useful idiot on the road to Hell paved with good intentions.
miles on March 12, 2010 at 10:45 AM
Does Ms. Goldstein know the difference between Give and Take?
I may choose to give to the poor, but the IRS/Congress TAKES the fruits of my labor at the point of a spear.
Is Rape a giving or a taking?
barnone on March 12, 2010 at 10:54 AM
I had a professor in college who was always singing the praises of Jim Wallis and Sojourners. That was back in the 80s. I thought Wallis was a tool then, even though I didn’t know he is, in effect, a Marxist.
I agree with “miles” above: so many, many churches in America already do the work Jesus asked His followers to do, and we do it without taking tax dollars from people or asking the government to help.
Wallis is a whiny weasel who couldn’t make it in the corporate world.
NebCon on March 12, 2010 at 10:58 AM
Obviously you don’t know…you are so desperate you make a fool of yourself…
right2bright on March 12, 2010 at 11:03 AM
I believe God valued the VOLUNTARY sacrifice. Giving at the point of a gun is not charity. And all government funds are raised through the implied willingness to use force as a collection tool.
hawksruleva on March 12, 2010 at 11:27 AM
As mentioned earlier in this thread, I’m joining the Catholic Church three weeks from tomorrow.
Yes there are lefties in my parish(The associate pastor thinks the Church’s refusal to ordain women and out and proud homosexual is a crime against humanity) and there are conservatives like the senior pastor and the music director.
I’m a member of the choir so I’ll be seeing him more than the liberal father. We also have an extremely out-spoken pro-life ministry…which I”ll also be involved in. Add in the conservative Catholics I’m meeting outside of my parish-one of my Calvinist husband’s manager’s has been giving me encouragement when I visit the office-and my Catholicism with actually be quite conservative.
Btw: Catholics pray to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. notice: I didn’t say “and the Virgin Mary”.
We HONOR Mary-but we pray to JESUS!
annoyinglittletwerp on March 12, 2010 at 11:29 AM
I object to this author’s interpretation that caring for the poor is the same thing as “social justice”.
The Book of Mormon has periods of time where a voluntary leveling of society takes place, but it completely voluntarily and even then it but it never lasts long. Even in the Book of Mormon “social justice” is proven to be an impossible goal!
Only when Christ reigns personally upon the earth will there be the kind of utopia that today’s left claims they are seeking. It cannot be done without God.
Voluntary charity (the true love of Christ) is far different than politically making everyone in society financially even.
Social “Justice” is impossible! Even if everyone had exactly the same amount of money. It would take one or two decisions on spending, saving, investing, to make it all uneven again.
America is already the most socially just country in the world! The very most–socially just–the world has ever seen! But luck and talent will never allow everyone to be even.
I would venture that “social justice” is not really what most churches mean when the use the phrase. They mean caring for the poor and needy, not communist revolution. But perhaps they should consider the political implications of the term.
petunia on March 12, 2010 at 11:33 AM
That website is interesting. And may well be what set Beck off. I find it very alarming! Of course Harry Reid is top on the list…
But that isn’t an official church website it is a group of liberal Mormons. I’ve never heard of them before and I’ve been a member my whole life… longer than Beck.
petunia on March 12, 2010 at 11:37 AM
Google: Social Justice, Mormons
You will find several true blue Mormons denouncing that broad stroke.
Of course Mormon’s believe in social justice, just not the same as the liberals “social justice”.
When a church often speaks of social justice, from a religious standpoint, they are talking to the inequality that man shows other men. I am sure their may be a parable or two in the bible, maybe even something about a whore?
The right for the “leper” of society, not to be outcast, or the “least” among us, is a Christian identity from the very beginning.
But it is by God’s grace, and as a standard, we should do the same, by our grace (and not edict) that we do create a social justice.
Child labor is one example, where this social justice label began to emerge. It is wrong, and laws should be implemented to help them, few deny that.
The best thing to do, is take back the term Social Justice, and define it how it was meant to be defined…not attack people who are using it, often for very good reasons and causes.
After all, what are Priesthood Quorums, and Relief Society for?
right2bright on March 12, 2010 at 12:00 PM
I hope Glenn is prepped for his confrontation with Wallis. Wallis has been one of the worst anti-American, anti-military, Marxists since the 70s. I recall his stupid group starting some sort of collective in DC, share the wealth and all that. He openly supported the North Vietnamese Communists and the Sandanistas among others. And he was tied in somehow with the FMLN. Yeah he was another one who, when Obama was elected, said that he was proud of his country for the first time.
Deanna on March 12, 2010 at 12:06 PM
This has already been done: The United States of America was invented (not coincidently, mostly by Christians).
This is why poor people need not (and frequently do not) remain poor in America. Many, many people move from “rich” to “poor” and from “poor” to “rich” over their lifetimes…because we (the USA) have preserved FREEDOM and OPPORTUNITY better than any place on earth. Freedom allows us to reap the benefits of our successes as well as the punishment for our mistakes.
Yet Liberals and other enemies of America continue to twist and spin the facts and constantly try to bash the USA by dishonestly using “the poor” and “Christianity” as weapons against us.
They would take away our freedom using the false promise that they can eliminate the consequences of failure. Make no mistake: these people are enemies of the USA.
landlines on March 12, 2010 at 12:14 PM
Batting 1000 on stupid. You never disappoint!
daesleeper on March 12, 2010 at 12:14 PM
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