Good news: “Under God” clause in pledge of allegiance once again constitutional in California
posted at 8:01 pm on March 11, 2010 by Allahpundit
You win this round. But we’ll be back.
“The Pledge is constitutional,” Judge Carlos Bea wrote for the majority in the 2-1 ruling. “The Pledge of Allegiance serves to unite our vast nation through the proud recitation of some of the ideals upon which our Republic was founded.”
The same court ruled in Newdow’s favor in 2002 after he sued his daughter’s school district for having students recite the pledge at school.
That lawsuit reached the U.S. Supreme Court in 2004, but the high court ruled that Newdow lacked the legal standing to file the suit because he didn’t have custody of his daughter, on whose behalf he brought the case…
Reached on his cell phone, Newdow said he hadn’t been aware that the appeals court had ruled against him Thursday.
“Oh man, what a bummer,” he said.
Here’s the PDF of the opinion in case you’re up for a little light reading. Total pages: 193, including a 130-page dissent by ultraliberal Stephen Reinhardt. The gist of the majority opinion:
Where, as here, compulsion to recite is absent, government action respects an establishment of religion only if the government coerces students to engage in a religious exercise. Coercion to engage in a patriotic activity, like the Pledge of Allegiance, does not run afoul of the Establishment Clause. The Supreme Court recognized this distinction in the earliest of the school prayer cases, Engel v. Vitale, 370 U.S. 421 (1962). In Engel, the Court considered a school’s policy directing children to say aloud a prayer written by state officials. The Court found this policy violated the Establishment Clause because “[the] program of daily classroom invocation of God’s blessings as prescribed in the Regents’ prayer is a religious activity. It is a solemn avowal of divine faith and supplication for the blessings of the Almighty. The nature of such a prayer has always been religious.” Id. at 424-25. The Court was also careful, however, to distinguish the prayer in Engel from a ceremonial reference to God in a footnote…
In other words, the Establishment Clause is violated only if (a) you’re forced to praise God or (b) forced to listen to someone else praise God in the context of a prayer. No prayer + no compulsion = no problemo! Drop a bomb on ‘em, Reinhardt:
The undeniably religious purpose of the “under God” amendment to the Pledge and the inherently coercive nature of its teacher-led daily recitation in public schools ought to be sufficient under any Establishment Clause analysis to vindicate Jan Roe and her child’s constitutional claim, and to require that the Pledge of Allegiance, when recited as part of a daily state-directed, teacher-led program, be performed in its original, pre-amendment secular incarnation that served us so well for generations. Surely, our original Pledge, without the McCarthy-era effort to indoctrinate our nation’s children with a state-held religious belief, was no less patriotic. For purposes of this case, the only difference between the original secular Pledge and the amended religious version is that the former did not subject, and was not designed to subject, our children to an attempt by their government to impose on them a religious belief regarding the existence of God. We should indeed have had more faith in our country, our citizens, and our Constitution than we exhibited at the peak of the McCarthy era when we enacted the religious amendment to our Pledge of Allegiance, in part to inculcate in our children a belief in God. In doing so, we abandoned our historic principle that secular matters were for the state and matters of faith were for the church. The majority does so again today, sadly, by twisting, distorting, and misrepresenting the law, as well as the issues that are before us.
Today’s majority opinion will undoubtedly be celebrated, at least publicly, by almost all political figures, and by many citizens as well, without regard for the constitutional principles it violates and without regard for the judicial precedents it defies and distorts, just as this court’s decision in Newdow I1 was condemned by so many who did not even bother to read it and simply rushed to join the political bandwagon. As before, there will be little attention paid to the constitutional rights of the minority or to the fundamental tenets of the Establishment Clause. Instead, to the joy or relief, as the case may be, of the two members of the majority, this court’s willingness to abandon its constitutional responsibilities will be praised as patriotic and may even burnish the court’s reputation among those who believe that it adheres too strictly to the dictates of the Constitution or that it values excessively the mandate of the Bill of Rights.
Don’t be too hard on ol’ Steve: He sided with the majority today in a related case finding that “In God We Trust” is A-OK on the currency. As for the pledge, I don’t see the point of the coercion requirement. If Congress passed some strictly hortatory “sense of the House/Senate resolution” that God exists and should be worshiped, I’d like to think that a court would knock that down as a violation of the Establishment Clause. “Congress shall make no law” means Congress shall make no law, coercive or not. But your mileage may — and, I’m sure, will — vary.
Elsewhere in atheism news, apparently it’s cool for us to be Buddhists now. Nuance.









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Interesting to see that Conservatives at HA agree with Liberals that the Constitution is a living document.
ronsfi on March 11, 2010 at 9:12 PM
yeah the faith of atheism, what a moron.
right4life on March 11, 2010 at 9:13 PM
Show us all how.
Liam on March 11, 2010 at 9:13 PM
This is about tolerance: believers tolerate non-believers
non-believers do not tolerate believers.
Anything else is smoke and mirrors. When I was a kid the JW’s tolerated the fact that we said the “Pledge” and we had no idea why they didn’t but tolerated them and played with them on the playground. This non-believers telling us that we must bend to their minority feelings.
thomasaur on March 11, 2010 at 9:14 PM
And God doesn’t belong in an obligatory robotic exercise in a public school. If you believe in God, it is insulting. If you do not it is an affront to your conscience.
AshleyTKing on March 11, 2010 at 9:14 PM
why don’t you explain to us how Jefferson paying for christian missionairies to the native americans was unconstitutional??
right4life on March 11, 2010 at 9:14 PM
Strawman. Congress passed no law. Your analogy is bogus imo.
Itchee Dryback on March 11, 2010 at 9:15 PM
Nope. The Constitution was written with specific procedures set in it for change. It was never intended to be a “living document.” It was intended to be what it is. If someone wants to change it, then there’s the amendment process.
Tennman on March 11, 2010 at 9:19 PM
No.
I means that liberties given by the creator can not be negotiated away by men.
Its more of a practical safeguard than literal command.
Itchee Dryback on March 11, 2010 at 9:21 PM
Seems I struck a nerve. Heh.
ronsfi on March 11, 2010 at 9:23 PM
Yep. Damn that idiot nerve.
Tennman on March 11, 2010 at 9:24 PM
more like stuck on stupid…
right4life on March 11, 2010 at 9:24 PM
Ah, but did you persuade? Anyone can strike a nerve, so you’re not as special as you think.
Can YOU change minds of yourself?
Liam on March 11, 2010 at 9:25 PM
As far as I can see, the only way “under God” violates the Constitution is if people are forced to say the pledge. But they aren’t.
Anyway, now that this loser Newdow has been struck down yet again, he’ll hopefully go away.
Emily M. on March 11, 2010 at 9:27 PM
unfortunately not, atheists like him have dedicated their lives to eliminating liberty for as many people as possible…
right4life on March 11, 2010 at 9:28 PM
Odd how “God’s Love” still leaves so many, so bitter. Cheer up. Spring is in the air!
ronsfi on March 11, 2010 at 9:29 PM
Leave it, Allahpundit. We got bigger fish to fry at the moment.
Pressing stuff.
*And the only real practicing Buddhists are the priests in the temples.
Sherman1864 on March 11, 2010 at 9:30 PM
projection, you lost. get used to it….Bwahahahaahahaha
right4life on March 11, 2010 at 9:32 PM
Bitterness is a personal choice. You alone decide if you’ll love or hate. Keep in mind that serial killers blame everyone else for their killings–”Mommy made me do it!”
Yeah, okay. I read you loud and clear.
Liam on March 11, 2010 at 9:32 PM
Wrong. It had quite a different purpose than IMPOSITION of faith– the recognition of the active role of faith in American affairs.
It was also the peak of the Red expansionist era. If you cared.
The twisting and distortions are by judges like Reinhart who wishes to pretend that public affirmations of faith are acts of unpricinpled subjugation which, somehow like a dog returning to his vomit, the American people have recurrently voted into park signs, city seals, presidential speeches, high school graduations, football games, etc etc etc for 200 years, despite constant enlightened repression from the bench.
Chris_Balsz on March 11, 2010 at 9:32 PM
So–what’s your body count? Police would like to know.
Liam on March 11, 2010 at 9:33 PM
Yeah… the one about not suffering fools gladly.
malclave on March 11, 2010 at 9:33 PM
When the first Congress was sworn in, do you know what the first action of that Congress was?
They said a prayer. In the House Chamber (as it was at the time). Any casual reader of history should be able to deduce that it was not the intent of the Constitution to have religion ignored by the federal government. If it was, and seems to be the current thinking today, the first action taken the Congress violated the Constitution.
To this day, a prayer is said as part of the call to order, everyday the House and Senate are in session.
History is so cool.
BobMbx on March 11, 2010 at 9:36 PM
No child is compelled to recite the Pledge. Most do because their classmates do but there are certain religions that don’t allow their members to pledge allegiance to anything other than God. Usually parents will inform the teacher if they don’t want the student to participate and the teachers have standard “script” to explain the situation. I have never heard of it being a problem.
Cindy Munford on March 11, 2010 at 9:36 PM
Thumpers, so hateful in their piety.
ronsfi on March 11, 2010 at 9:40 PM
As YOU posted, you’re the one full of hate and fury.
Liam on March 11, 2010 at 9:41 PM
Wanna talk, you and me? Not to hijack the thread. But if you want to spew, I’m in. I’m a Thumper.
Liam on March 11, 2010 at 9:43 PM
.
Oh yeah. That’s me. Tons of hate a fury. Teehee.
ronsfi on March 11, 2010 at 9:43 PM
Trolls, so pathetic in their miserable little existence.
malclave on March 11, 2010 at 9:44 PM
I’m pretty sure ronsfi arrived at his faith thru coercion…by peer pressure.
daesleeper on March 11, 2010 at 9:44 PM
You come across that way.
Liam on March 11, 2010 at 9:45 PM
Liam on March 11, 2010 at 9:43 PM
ronsfi on March 11, 2010 at 9:46 PM
The things you posted tell much. You’re surely self-aware, so you can’t deny what you yourself have posted. And what you post is also what you believe.
I’m not trying to fight you.
Liam on March 11, 2010 at 9:47 PM
How about you and me just having a talk? You refuse the God in Whom I believe, and that’s okay. Don’t devalue my belief, as I won’t denigrate your own personal values. Fair enough?
Liam on March 11, 2010 at 9:49 PM
You believe that you’re omniscient. That’s even less of a basis.
malclave on March 11, 2010 at 9:49 PM
I can make a reasoned discourse of my Faith.
Liam on March 11, 2010 at 9:50 PM
.
Yes I stand by my posts. Originalists who support this are inconsistent and perhaps hypocritical and thumper trolls are hateful. Horrors!
ronsfi on March 11, 2010 at 9:50 PM
Yes, that happens. But I’m speaking to you, one-on-one. All others, on all sides, are out of this. Fair enough?
Liam on March 11, 2010 at 9:53 PM
He’ll never go for it. He’s nothing but a troll… a coward.
malclave on March 11, 2010 at 9:55 PM
You wonder why God, if He’s good, would hurt you. Is that a basic question inside you?
Liam on March 11, 2010 at 9:56 PM
I understand that you feel that the original Pledge should have remained intact. Maybe the the addition of under God could be considered reactionary but that was done over fifty years ago. Add that to the fact that the Pledge has pretty much gone the way of the buggy whip, why the broad brush strokes?
Cindy Munford on March 11, 2010 at 9:56 PM
Trust, please?
Liam on March 11, 2010 at 9:56 PM
Trust this, please?
Liam on March 11, 2010 at 9:57 PM
Cage Match!
Somebody call AllahP.
BobMbx on March 11, 2010 at 9:59 PM
My knees feel like they’ve been hit hammers, so I’m out for now.
I’m not your enemy. You might think me as such, but I’m not. I have nothing to prove.
Regards,
Liam
Liam on March 11, 2010 at 10:03 PM
If I thought there was any chance he was interested in having a discourse with you, I would. From what I’ve seen, he’s just out to insult people who believe differently than he does (or pretends to… for all we know, he could be a devout churchgoer), so I’m merely obliging him by letting him set the level of the conversation.
malclave on March 11, 2010 at 10:03 PM
The ghosts of logical positivism still creak like planks on a tall ship.
daesleeper on March 11, 2010 at 10:07 PM
Our Activities Director is an L-leaning R, and we have just such a quote read over the intercom every day.
Bob's Kid on March 11, 2010 at 10:08 PM
.
So I’m full of hateful furious spew but you now want to pretend to be reasonable. I stand by my statement. If you wish to persuade ME, then you are free to post what you wish. I may read it, I may not. I however have no intention of attempting to persuade you. In order to be persuaded one must first have an open mind (not the hallmark of the faithful)and also, I would have to care which I just don’t.
ronsfi on March 11, 2010 at 10:08 PM
So that leaves you out.
malclave on March 11, 2010 at 10:11 PM
An open mind is like an open mouth, it lacks purpose unless it has something solid around which to close.
daesleeper on March 11, 2010 at 10:13 PM
As you wish. I offered an open hand, which you say can’t happen from people like me. Well, it happened from someone like me, and YOU are the one with the closed mind and tight fist.
The onus, then, is on YOU, and you alone. Though, in your pomposity, won’t be seen as such.
Sad for you.
Liam on March 11, 2010 at 10:14 PM
While I have no desire to try to change your mind and like you “I would hve to care which I just don’t”. But out of curiosity why the antagonistic and belittling remarks?
Cindy Munford on March 11, 2010 at 10:15 PM
I love the assumption that believers are mindless automatons that receive marching orders and perform duties. Neat little setup to parse one’s self out of that group…allows one to then define themselves as ‘not one of those.’ pretty weak, pretty cowardly.
daesleeper on March 11, 2010 at 10:15 PM
Don’t you know, Cindy? Those who follow the darkest of paths don’t WANT to see any kind of light, any other offering. They’re content in their darkness.
Liam on March 11, 2010 at 10:17 PM
I’m sure you would like to think that. You would need to think it, because it wouldn’t happen. Why would the courts strike this down? Doesn’t the Congress do this self same thing when they open each session with a prayer and hire chaplains?
Religion…RELIGION. Merely believing in God is not a religion. A religion is a set of rules or practices on how to believe in God, not if. A religion is Catholicism or Buddhism or Mormonism or whatever, not a mere belief in God. That is why almost all our founding documents, state and federal, fearlessly acknowledge God. That is why there is also a ban on religious tests. Tests which say you must adhere to a certain set of rules or practices, a religion.
The population and government of the US has agreed with near unanimity from the start till today that there is a God. There is no reason the government should not reflect that. No one is forcing anyone to adhere to it. The government could put the word God on every document and every building and it wouldn’t violate the Constitution in any way.
“Under God” is not an establishment of what people must believe, it’s an acknowledgment of what they do believe.
Rocks on March 11, 2010 at 10:17 PM
Under God” is basically saying that we’re a God-fearing nation. And it certainly suggests some sort of official government position about God’s existence and proper humility towards him.
Sorry. God isn’t a religion. Wrangle it around to stop other in the practice of free speech, and I might add in addendum places the state putting restrictions ON religion when it was taken away, which my dear, is what the founders wanted to AVOID. No state interference. Leave the words out if you must, and grow up to the fact we won’t ever take agree with you that man is the be all and end all of it all.
Noelie on March 11, 2010 at 10:18 PM
.
Such as? Those are simply statements of fact.
ronsfi on March 11, 2010 at 10:21 PM
Odd how “God’s Love” still leaves so many, so bitter. Cheer up. Spring is in the air!
ronsfi on March 11, 2010 at 9:29 PM
And your behavior toward Liam is your expression of love? The hypocrisy must be that stench of manure on your spring flowers.
Please show us the behavior of the enlightened, but reading your exchange with Liam does NOT do you justice. He frankly is appearing far more generous than you do. But then I guess that is what atheism gets you.
Noelie on March 11, 2010 at 10:22 PM
Then prove it.
Oh, wait, I know your type… “the science is settled,” right?
malclave on March 11, 2010 at 10:24 PM
.
You see? Your feint of reasonable sensibility was a ruse as expected. You see I just see this as a comment thread whereas you see yourself engaged in romantic struggle against the minions of the Dark Lord. Play WOW much? Battle on good Knight! Yeesh…damn it’s bright in here…
ronsfi on March 11, 2010 at 10:27 PM
Well, no, they aren’t. But your faith that they are “fact” is every bit as real as the faith of those who disagree with you. Everyone is living on faith and I think that is deliciously wonderful.
Cindy Munford on March 11, 2010 at 10:31 PM
Can someone please explain to me exactly WHAT religion is established with the words “under God” or “In God We Trust”. Is there a church or other gathering place for this established religion? Who are the clergy? Come on, there must be if there are challenges such as we’ve seen.
We seem to have forgotten the context in which the phrase was written. Our country was founded in part by a group of people who could not abide the mandated religion of King John. The writers of the constitution saw what such an action had done and specifically said our government will would never make the same mistake.
All this furor over something that hasn’t been done.
dkeppner on March 11, 2010 at 10:31 PM
A free society is based upon respect for an individual’s rights to their life and property. Our natural rights can be apprehended by reason. There is no need to appeal to God or some supernatural deity to support our sacred rights.
We don’t need public school monopolies. And we don’t need these schools preparing unthinking automatons who mouth the pledge every morning. With or without God.
AshleyTKing on March 11, 2010 at 10:31 PM
You’ve crr6′ed yourself. It is tragedy.
Ok, that was harsh…you Drywalled yourself.
daesleeper on March 11, 2010 at 10:31 PM
You don’t grasp me at all, though you think you’re on a higher plane.
As for the games you mentioned, I prefer FEAR.
You’re twitching because I asked to speak to you, and you refused. In your head, that’s not in any way your fault.
Okay, sure. I’ll go with what works for you. I’m not going to argue with you; you win.
That cool between us?
Liam on March 11, 2010 at 10:32 PM
Whatever floats your boat Cindy.
ronsfi on March 11, 2010 at 10:32 PM
Why didn’t you ask right4life the same thing. Selective reading?
Bill Blizzard on March 11, 2010 at 10:32 PM
Convene a committee to rewrite the Declaration of Independence.
daesleeper on March 11, 2010 at 10:33 PM
That poster relegated themselves to irrelevancy a long long long time ago.
daesleeper on March 11, 2010 at 10:34 PM
.
I thought we were speaking.
ronsfi on March 11, 2010 at 10:34 PM
.
As long as I don’t daesleeper myself I’m good.
ronsfi on March 11, 2010 at 10:35 PM
We hold these truths to be self-evident; that all men are created equal and independent; that from that equal creation they derive rights inherent and inalienable, among which are the preservation of life, and liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that to secure these ends, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just power from the consent of the governed; that whenever any form of government shall become destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying it’s foundation on such principles and organizing it’s power in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.
Either one is fine with me.
AshleyTKing on March 11, 2010 at 10:36 PM
YOU shut that down. You precluded any chance for discussion, turning me away and attacking Cindy.
Don’t try changing it now. YOU made your own decision, and your own posts made all that clear.
Liam on March 11, 2010 at 10:37 PM
Oh, I don’t recall those public school monopolies in the Declaration.
AshleyTKing on March 11, 2010 at 10:37 PM
You’re right–I need to stop having religion and should treat people like you on your own level. I should bail on religion and be just like you.
Liam on March 11, 2010 at 10:38 PM
ronsfi is a typical atheist wacko, who worships at the altar of his racist hairy god darwin….a typical ‘tolerant’ wacko, who only tolerates those who agree with him/her/it
right4life on March 11, 2010 at 10:40 PM
That’s very Christian of you.
Bill Blizzard on March 11, 2010 at 10:41 PM
why don’t you ask me?
you wackos can give it, but you sure can’t take it.
right4life on March 11, 2010 at 10:41 PM
I truly didn’t see the other comment. My apologies.
Cindy Munford on March 11, 2010 at 10:42 PM
Being a Christian doesn’t mean being a doormat.
Liam on March 11, 2010 at 10:43 PM
Right back at ya!
Bill Blizzard on March 11, 2010 at 10:43 PM
right4life on March 11, 2010 at 10:44 PM
oh wow another ‘clever’ legend in his own mind atheist!!
try evolving some intelligence so you can come up with a few good lines…
right4life on March 11, 2010 at 10:45 PM
Doormat! Give me a break!
Bill Blizzard on March 11, 2010 at 10:45 PM
You’re more a definition of yourself than you are a comment about me.
Tell me–are you a Bible Thumper?
Liam on March 11, 2010 at 10:45 PM
You’re more a definition of yourself than you are a comment about me.
Tell me–are you a Bible Believer?
As for your last comment–can you please elucidate?
Liam on March 11, 2010 at 10:46 PM
as history has shown, atheists don’t want christians as doormats, they want us dead
right4life on March 11, 2010 at 10:47 PM
You assume way to much. But that is expected.
Bill Blizzard on March 11, 2010 at 10:47 PM
It’s okay ronsfi didn’t attack me and he didn’t refute my theory of both believers and non-believers living on faith.
Cindy Munford on March 11, 2010 at 10:47 PM
It has been the other way around if you truly knew history.
Bill Blizzard on March 11, 2010 at 10:48 PM
OK, Cindy.
Liam on March 11, 2010 at 10:48 PM
whatever…
right4life on March 11, 2010 at 10:49 PM
I’m a bible tapper.
Bill Blizzard on March 11, 2010 at 10:49 PM
OK, you win.
Liam on March 11, 2010 at 10:50 PM
oh really now?? this is just too funny!! so you never heard of Stalin, Mao, COMMUNISM??
oh I know, communism is a christian/jewish PLOT to make atheists look bad!
laughable.
right4life on March 11, 2010 at 10:50 PM
Agreed but then there wouldn’t be comments and as we know they make the world go around.
Cindy Munford on March 11, 2010 at 10:51 PM
.
Heh! I wouldn’t go that far but perhaps you are letting your fervor get the best of you. One can be wrong and not be a worshiper of dark forces. I mean come on.
ronsfi on March 11, 2010 at 10:52 PM
quality cowardly obfuscation. Congratulations.
BTW The Bureau of Indian Affairs ain’t in there either.
daesleeper on March 11, 2010 at 10:53 PM
That’s the way most professed Christians here are treating the atheists.
Bill Blizzard on March 11, 2010 at 10:53 PM
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