The feds, freedom, and Schlitz

posted at 11:00 am on March 7, 2010 by Ed Morrissey

Glenn Reynolds has an interesting take on a provocative poll result from Rasmussen last month showing that only 21% believe that the current federal government has the consent of the governed.  As he notes, only 63% of the political class — the people who work in that government — disagree.  Has America become ripe for a second revolution?  Glenn thinks instead that the federal government has become a damaged brand, and relates it to the story of Schlitz beer, which was at one time the second-most popular brew in the US:

These numbers should raise deep worries about the future of our republic. A nation whose government does not rest on the consent of the governed is a nation whose government holds sway only by inertia, or by force.

It is a nation vulnerable to political shocks, usurpation, or perhaps even political collapse or civil war. It is a body politic suffering from a serious illness. Those who care about America should be very worried.

But we’ve had enough political drama in recent years, so I’ll go for a more prosaic comparison: The once-heady brew of American freedom has become watery and unsatisfying.

In fact, when I think of the federal government’s brand now, I think of Schlitz beer. Schlitz was once a top national brew. But, in search of short-term gains, it began gradually reducing its quality in tiny increments to save money, substituting cheaper malt, fewer hops and “accelerated” brewing for its traditional approach.

Each incremental decline was imperceptible to consumers, but after a few years, people suddenly noticed that the beer was no good anymore. Sales collapsed, and a “Taste My Schlitz” campaign designed to lure beer drinkers back failed when the “improved” brew turned out not to be any better. A brand image that had been accumulated over decades was lost in a few years, and it has never recovered.

The book series The Bathroom Reader told the story of the Schlitz debacle in brief (as is its wont) a few years back.  The final straw came when the brewer decided to use cheap high-fructose corn syrup in its process to save money, as part of the “accelerated brewing” to which Glenn refers.  The beer brewed acceptably, but didn’t store well; after a few weeks, it separated in both bottles and cans and became undrinkable.  The “Taste My Schlitz” campaign failed because consumers stopped trusting Schlitz, and because consumers had many alternative choices available.

Unfortunately, that’s not the case with federal government, or it hasn’t been until recently.  Both major political parties have offered Big Government as their product, and both have suffered brand damage because of it.  The Tea Parties today serve the same purpose as the one in the 18th century in Boston, which was a signal that consumers wanted another choice.

If the market is responsive, one party will start providing that choice, or else consumers will create a product to meet the demand.  A third party would damage the GOP almost irrevocably, while benefiting Democrats in the short run.  With that in mind, the Republican Party and its politicians had better consider some rapid product improvements or find itself becoming the Schlitz Beer of political parties.

Update: Comment of the day from Noel of Cold Fury: “The cure for both problems is Sam Adams.”

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Comment pages: 1 2

The GOP needs to become “agile,” as in being able to respond to current trends and markets. If they stay with the same big inertia mode they are on, they will get left behind. Time for Michael Steele to visit Silicon Valley and learn how to run an agile organization.

Mallard T. Drake on March 7, 2010 at 1:34 PM

And the cure for both problems is Sam Adams.

Noel on March 7, 2010 at 1:35 PM

Making government smaller is the only lasting and realistic solution. Time to cut the fat in personnel and programs…but everybody knows that. If we can’t face that reality, we are little more than self deluded moderates.
Start cutting as soon as possible and keep cutting.
People will rally around that purpose and the courage that it will take.
We don’t need the gov telling us what food to eat or cars to drive or which lightbulbs will be allowed to be purchased or words allowed to be spoken, not to mention what values and world views to teach our children.
Stop the insanity.

Itchee Dryback on March 7, 2010 at 1:16 PM

You’re right that making government is the only lasting solution. But it’s still never, ever going to happen. It’s a pipe dream. It’s never happened before, and it will never happen.

But the points you brought up are excellent: i.e. food, light bulbs, cars etc.

We need to vote against people that believe in AGW. There are lots of them, and they deserve no place in our government, the tide is turning against these crazies (thanks to Climategate) we can vote them out of office. It will take years, maybe even decades, but eventually anyone invoking ManBearPig will be met with derision from the voters.

As far as “words allowed to be spoken, not to mention what values and world views to teach our children.” School vouchers will go a long way to help sway this problem in the direction of proper education and against the P.C. B.S. of a typical public school.

So, there are two constructive issues that we can actually tackle: Voting against politicians who believe in ManBearPig, and voting for politicians that believe in school vouchers.

But we’ve got to get off of this “reducing the size and scope of government” thing. It’s a real nice idea, but it’s never going to happen. Let’s tackle issues we can do something about.

July 10 on March 7, 2010 at 1:36 PM

The failed war on poverty, the failed war on drugs, the failing Post Office, the IRS (The-irs), the failed public school system, the failed never was southern border wall, the coming amnesty for illegals, Government Motors, the unwanted and unneeded heath care scheme, deficits too large to fully comprehend. . . is it any wonder the US Government is not trusted. We need a reformation, not only of government but of the American spirit. We must inculcate Americanism in all Americans, young and old, newcomer and native born alike. We must return to the Founder’s ideals. We must return to the Constitution. We must sweep the old out and elect men and women of common sense and virtue or continue our long slow death spiral.

scullymj on March 7, 2010 at 1:40 PM

The fact that the Republicans could only offer John McCain as their best candidate in the last election, made me realize that the GOP is full of Schlitz.

realitycheck on March 7, 2010 at 1:43 PM

We need to vote against people that believe in AGW. There are lots of them, and they deserve no place in our government, the tide is turning against these crazies (thanks to Climategate) we can vote them out of office. It will take years, maybe even decades, but eventually anyone invoking ManBearPig will be met with derision from the voters.

As far as “words allowed to be spoken, not to mention what values and world views to teach our children.” School vouchers will go a long way to help sway this problem in the direction of proper education and against the P.C. B.S. of a typical public school.

So, there are two constructive issues that we can actually tackle: Voting against politicians who believe in ManBearPig, and voting for politicians that believe in school vouchers.

I agree.

Implementing those 2 things would, in themselves, cut the size of government and possibly start a trend of common sense expenditures…which would cut the size of government etc.
When the entrenched politicos finally learn that the voice of the people is what they better take into consideration major changes can happen almost over night, even if they’ve never happened before.
Yes We Can!!

Itchee Dryback on March 7, 2010 at 1:45 PM

Barack Schlitz Obama.

drjohn on March 7, 2010 at 1:53 PM

***
The decline of the U.S. Postal Service is a prime example of how the Gubmint “enterprises” fail to respond to the customer. FEDEX, UPS, EMORY, et al exist due to the PS’s lack of service.
***
And what is their response to bad service–take out the stamp vending machines in their locations–brilliant! Cut out Saturday mail deliveries–misdeliver mail to wrong addresses–raise stamp prices–blindly send back packages 30 days later if a slight Zip Code error exists–no need to read the address. Smart Power in action.
***
Coming soon to other areas of your life as Comrade Obama (PBUH) and his ilk take over more of U.S. business and put it under Gubmint control. We don’t drink “skunky” beer–and we and our dogs won’t eat this CR***Y “dog food” we are seeing being “cooked” up for us now.
***
Vote these clueless evil clowns out in the 2010 and 2012 elections.
***
John Bibb
***

rocketman on March 7, 2010 at 2:00 PM

They want low taxes and more government services. It’s a false choice.

lexhamfox on March 7, 2010 at 11:52 AM

You, lexhamfox are incorrect.
we want Less spending,Less government, lower taxes. We are smart enough to know Less Government means, less government services. DUH
If you want to know the truth go to a “Tea Party” rally. You will not hear anyone asking for more Government services!

IowaWoman on March 7, 2010 at 2:02 PM

The decline of the U.S. Postal Service is a prime example of how the Gubmint “enterprises” fail to respond to the customer. FEDEX, UPS, EMORY, et al exist due to the PS’s lack of service.
***
And what is their response to bad service–take out the stamp vending machines in their locations–brilliant! Cut out Saturday mail deliveries–misdeliver mail to wrong addresses–raise stamp prices–blindly send back packages 30 days later if a slight Zip Code error exists–no need to read the address. Smart Power in action.
***

rocketman on March 7, 2010 at 2:00 PM

Yep. And even though The Precedent served this argument against his health scare on a silver platter – bringing up the Post Office as an example to follow – the GOP has refused to run with this aspect.

One point in defense of the federla government runing the Post Office – Congress is Constitutionally charged with creating it and empowered to run it, unlike the un-American, illegal, nation-killing health scare ideas.

neurosculptor on March 7, 2010 at 2:07 PM

Schlitz beer nothing!

Around my house ages ago, it was Hamms Beer! From The Land Of Sky Blue Waters!

pilamaye on March 7, 2010 at 2:14 PM

One point in defense of the federla government runing the Post Office – Congress is Constitutionally charged with creating it and empowered to run it, unlike the un-American, illegal, nation-killing health scare ideas.

neurosculptor on March 7, 2010 at 2:07 PM

Also, you don’t get fined if you don’t use the Post Office.

July 10 on March 7, 2010 at 2:15 PM

Shiltz, yesterday’s beer … Read the Declaration Of Independence.

tarpon on March 7, 2010 at 2:17 PM

The fact that the Republicans could only offer John McCain as their best candidate in the last election, made me realize that the GOP is full of Schlitz.

realitycheck on March 7, 2010 at 1:43 PM

Note to the GOP: Don’t let the MSM pick our beer. (:

redridinghood on March 7, 2010 at 2:28 PM

The GOP is likened to Shiltz beer. I don’t trust them anymore. When we controlled the house did we reverse what the Left did? No we did not. We still have the Dept. of Energy and import 2/3rds of our oil and their budget this year is 23.2 Billion with 16,000 employees. Give education back to the States, Fat chance. I’m very afraid after the elections that the GOP will be back and very strong however what is now written will continue. I’ll bet on it.

mixplix on March 7, 2010 at 2:32 PM

When we get control of congress, and throw ObaMao out on his socialist a$$. We need to have a comprehensive government reform bill ready to roll, and pass it on the fly like the dim did porkulus.

Slowburn on March 7, 2010 at 2:39 PM

We are at a dire point in this nations history. We have a chance throught the election process to start reverting to a free society. We are all now slaves to the state. The abusive powers of the state that are exercised against us are untenable and more onerous than what king George ever would have tried.

If we can not effect the government through the ballot process then we will have to invoke the passage from the Declaration of Independence;

Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government

This will be a bloody event but, GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE. ME DEATH!

Don’t tread on US.

TheSitRep on March 7, 2010 at 2:42 PM

Note to the GOP: Don’t let the MSM pick our beer. (:

redridinghood on March 7, 2010 at 2:28 PM

Why not? They picked our President.

It’s pretty clear that no one could have beat Obama in 2008. If he would have had a stronger Republican opponent the MSM would have pulled out even more stops for Obama.

Let’s hope that they’ve used up their power and Obama is beatable in 2012.

July 10 on March 7, 2010 at 2:44 PM

The other problem with libertarians is that they are content with losing elections, so they can feel superior.

NoDonkey on March 7, 2010 at 11:52 AM

Meanwhile, the Democrats are content with losing 2010 so as to have complete government control of 1/6 of the US economy. Sounds like a match made in heaven, except I thought libertarians would wise up after 2008. They make the Republican party look competent after how bad they get rolled by the Democrats.

chunderroad on March 7, 2010 at 2:44 PM

The GOP needs to become “agile,” as in being able to respond to current trends and markets. If they stay with the same big inertia mode they are on, they will get left behind. Time for Michael Steele to visit Silicon Valley and learn how to run an agile organization.

Mallard T. Drake on March 7, 2010 at 1:34 PM

Silicon Valley? Are you nuts?

There are more crooks per square mile in Silicon Valley than Washington D.C.!!

bill30097 on March 7, 2010 at 2:52 PM

OhioCoastie on March 7, 2010 at 11:34 AM

Classic!

Cybergeezer on March 7, 2010 at 2:53 PM

Wanna good beer?
Allagash! American, too!

Cybergeezer on March 7, 2010 at 2:56 PM

Around here, we have a drink we call the “Runner Up”.
Since Obama’s in contention for the worst president ever:
It’s Seven Up and prune juice on the rocks.

Cybergeezer on March 7, 2010 at 2:58 PM

Comment of the day from Noel of Cold Fury: “The cure for both problems is Sam Adams.”

both figuratively and literally….

*Cheers*

ted c on March 7, 2010 at 2:59 PM

I’m coccocting a drink I’ll name “piez-on-ya” in honor of our current Congress.
I haven’t perfected it yet, but so far it has lite beer, sparkling water, and apple juice.

Cybergeezer on March 7, 2010 at 3:02 PM

Heh, Heh!
Sam Adams releases an album!

Cybergeezer on March 7, 2010 at 3:05 PM

“The Administration” Is another drink (and appetizer) only to be served during this administration:
It’s cheap American beer, black beans, and boiled eggs.
Creates almost as much flatulence as this administration and has the aroma to go with it.

Cybergeezer on March 7, 2010 at 3:11 PM

Hotair gets a kick out of moderating for normal words, and then they really love putting up posts with those words in them. It’s a game … a lefty game, but that’s what we have, here.

neurosculptor on March 7, 2010 at 12:11 PM

Perhaps you prefer to shape how people think, or disaprove when the thinking is not in the shape you prefer?

Franklyn on March 7, 2010 at 3:29 PM

Also, you don’t get fined if you don’t use the Post Office.

July 10 on March 7, 2010 at 2:15 PM

No; But, it’s concealed in your taxes.
They have always done expedited maneuvers when the P.O. had a surplus in their budget: They’d vote to put the P.O. on the general budget in the morning, rework it’s budget numbers (remove the surplus funds), then vote to have the P.O. put back on it’s own budget in the afternoon.
ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH “SUBSIDIES”?
Prime example.

Cybergeezer on March 7, 2010 at 3:52 PM

As I almost learned the hardway when I jumped into politics, the rules are not to play fair, but dirty, to get what you want, and don’t get caught doing what the law says you cannot do. The democrates are obviously playing the fast and dirty game while the GOP seems to be playing by candyland rules, but that is what you get with moderate conservatives who want to keep everyone happy. Unfortunately the Democrates are so far to the left that the Republicans are being pulled there too. Being the underdog does not mean you always have to give in or that you must accept defeat or be powerless. It means you have to fight harder to win. The Republicans may have lost many more battles than they won against the odds, but they would have earned the respect of the people. The other mistake they made was putting Steel into the seat of leading the party. Race aside, as it is the man not the color of skin that counts, Steel is not the man for the job of leading the GOP. Its as if they were looking to put a man of the same race and incompetence into the leadership position; afirmative action at work for both.

Franklyn on March 7, 2010 at 4:01 PM

Where the hell has this guy been? Schlitz is like $7 at some bars around Chicago. The hipsters love it because it’s somehow ironic to drink it, and I drank it because it was cheap until the hipsters (who always ruin everything) discovered it. Moral of the story, we should send all of the hipsters to some place we don’t like, like Cuba or Iran, and watch the hilarity ensue.

galenrox on March 7, 2010 at 4:18 PM

Franklyn on March 7, 2010 at 4:01 PM

Agreed.
Just because the Democrat Party is completely out of touch with the electorate, doesn’t give the Republican Party the excuse to be partially out of touch.
And putting someone in the position for presidential candidate that is younger and can connect with the younger voters is what they need to do.
Another McCain or McCain-lite ain’t going to do the job.
TEA Partiers, Republican, and Conservatives need to force the GOP to listen up and heed our desires, or it’s nothing but same crap, different day.
It’s like banging your head against a wall; Feels good when you stop.

Cybergeezer on March 7, 2010 at 4:24 PM

But we’ve got to get off of this “reducing the size and scope of government” thing. It’s a real nice idea, but it’s never going to happen. Let’s tackle issues we can do something about.

July 10 on March 7, 2010 at 1:36 PM


Why? Any law on the books can be repealed as can any amendment to the constitution. Do you somehow feel we can’t do this? Why not?

We should begin with a simple 5% across the board reduction in spending. Every department and every program. If the politicians were to do this, they might regain the trust of the American people (and possible the world).

The only way we are going to avert a fiscal disaster is to reduce spending – tax cuts (as if congress would pass those now) will not increase federal revenue to the point of offsetting the current and projected deficits.

We must cut Federal spending, NOW!

The same goes with the scope of government, there is no reason for all of the social programs and multiple departments that currently exist. For one, most of these are programs that should only exist at the state level. Do we really need a Department of Homeland Security and a Department of Defense – don’t these mean the same thing and can’t one agency handle the whole job?

However, this will not happen – because you and others like you don’t think it can. Just like a non-Democrat could never win Kennedy’s seat or a black man could never be elected president. Does it require a woman to win the presidential election to show you this country can do whatever we set our minds too?

jackal40 on March 7, 2010 at 4:33 PM

……….Does it require a woman to win the presidential election to show you this country can do whatever we set our minds too?

jackal40 on March 7, 2010 at 4:33 PM

Oooooohh! Can she be mixed race and lesbian? I’m excited!

Cybergeezer on March 7, 2010 at 4:38 PM

Cybergeezer on March 7, 2010 at 4:38 PM


Sure, why not. Might make the speeches easier to listen to.

jackal40 on March 7, 2010 at 4:41 PM

Since it’s going to take a lot of effort to reset the black-hole and corrupting effects of D.C., shouldn’t we aim a bit higher, perhaps a restructuring of the republic so we don’t have this or an equivalent issue for another 200 years? Consider that almost all of government is one service or another, most can be automated especially if the law and regs are restructured to ease automation (and a service industry will emerge to support the non-literate).

With 22 million government workers, we should aim to come up with a design that reduces this number to 10% or less (2 million sounds like 1 million too many). This by itself (moving 20 million from a below-the-line cost to an above-the-line economic add) might just pay for social security, especially after we write down the excessive pensions, double-and-triple dippers on the public tit.
.
I’m thinking radical restructuring. Something true to the founders but with the “misunderstandings” restated in absolute form, federalism and subsidiarity defined concretely, with local control (and local responsibility) pre-eminent, in the form of “new” states along the lines of the original – perhaps regularly redrawn, opt-in, state political boundaries of ~300,000 citizens, drawn by algorithm and elections, with an absolute right to vote with your feet and tax and regulation competition guaranteed between the new states.
.
Does anyone know of a current on-line effort to define something similar, including principles, terms and even documents? Federalist Papers Version 2010?
.
Call it an end-goal, something that we can point the political class at as statement of what we-the-people will do if they don’t return to the founders’ intention for limited and small (< 10% of a free citizen’s life) government, where the free citizen and their enterprise are largely left alone by those who would use coercion (the power of government) and not civil society (including the market, ability to vote with a wallet) to change their behavior.

aritai on March 7, 2010 at 4:48 PM

IIRC USPO worked pretty well for +/- 200 years. Never efficient but okay. There was even a penny postcard in the early 50s. And first class was 3 cents. And second cousins still got the mail delivered.

No use covering plowed ground here, but now the country is under the same threat. The good part is that resistance to this threat is strong and growing stronger. Yeah that resistance is uneven. Support it anyway. Even bitchin’ on HA helps.

Caststeel on March 7, 2010 at 4:50 PM

jackal40 on March 7, 2010 at 4:41 PM

One big problem I can think of would be making a bullet proof motorcycle.
I’ve met lesbians that had more balls than many men. Don’t know any in politics, at this time, though.

Cybergeezer on March 7, 2010 at 4:53 PM

jackal40 on March 7, 2010 at 4:41 PM

P.S.
I’ve also met nuns that would make great presidents.

Cybergeezer on March 7, 2010 at 5:00 PM

aritai on March 7, 2010 at 4:48 PM


I agree, while we’re at it I would like to see Federal spending capped at a percentage of GDP (say maybe 5 to 10%). In addition, we need to remove the ability of the critters in congress from voting their own pay raises – I like the idea my wife had, you serve your term and move on. No pay, no benefits, no retirement, and no career politicians. Too bad that this would prohibit those of us without substantial means from serving – Oh wait, we’re already locked out because it takes so much to just fund a campaign.

jackal40 on March 7, 2010 at 5:02 PM

It’s a moot point.

Sam Adams beer is better than Schlitz ever was and it has a nice patriotic ring to it.

turfmann on March 7, 2010 at 11:16 AM

Believe it or not, Sam Adams sounds patriotic, but isn’t even brewed in New England. Most of it is brewed in Cincinnati, some in NY and NC, and some is even now brewed in Latrobe PA at the old Rolling Rock brewery in the “glass-lined tanks”.

Meanwhile, Rolling Rock is now being brewed at the Bud plant in the swamp in Newark.

Del Dolemonte on March 7, 2010 at 5:08 PM

Ed, a fabulous post and an apt comparison.

I have experienced this ‘first-hand’. Calling my elected representatives is an exercise in futility of the most aggravating kind. They treat me like a child, they’re arrogant, and when I remind them that the Congress man/woman is ignoring the will of the constituents, they snidely remind me that we’re a “republic” and the Congress person can make whatever vote they like, no matter the ramifications.

I hang up frustrated and demeaned. How long can we put up with this elitism, all the while being expected to fork over a good portion of our income for them to disperse as they see fit, “for our own good”?

God, speed the coming revolution, but make it peaceful. At this rate, the republic cannot and will not withstand this level of ignorance and corruption.

Grace_is_sufficient on March 7, 2010 at 5:32 PM

Actually the Mayor of Portland Oregon is Sam Adams… whose primary qualification for public office is his homosexuality, and the underage boy he dated, and the parked car he ran into while he drove with this short pants down around his ankles. We haven’t figured that one out yet.

DANEgerus on March 7, 2010 at 6:11 PM

Republicans will vote for Republicans in November. Independents will vote for Republicans in November. Republicans will run, and win on, a platform of “we’re not them”.

Tea Party folks need to let the GOP know before this election that their votes are not to be taken for granted, that this vote is a one-time deal, and future votes will be predicated on doing something more than not being democrats.

For me personally, I’m going to let it be known that permanantly smaller government, one that more closely matches the Constitution and the founders goals, is what they should be relentlessly working for. If not, then I will consider 2012 to be up for grabs. Not necessarily for Democrats, but for a third party, certainly.

To you naysayers who bleat constantly about third parties guaranteeing a win for democrats, that will no longer be my concern. That is a reality the GOP needs to come to grips with, or pay the price of reduced influence.

OneEyedJack on March 7, 2010 at 6:19 PM

To you naysayers who bleat constantly about third parties guaranteeing a win for democrats, that will no longer be my concern.

Might as well vote for Democrats and cut out the middle man.

Our system isn’t designed for third parties. We don’t have a parliament.

Your third party gets as big as the GOP and guess what we get? 25% of the votes get you – nothing at all. Corrupt, incompetent, worthless Democrats as far as the eye can see.

You can be a child and have a temper tantrum, or you can grow up and grab and eyeful of reality. Third parties aren’t viable in this country, period.

NoDonkey on March 7, 2010 at 8:55 PM

I grew up in Milwaukee, and the story of the decline of Schlitz as presented by the professor is only half the story…and is even more telling and appropriate for today.

Basically what happened was that relations between the labor union and the management became so bad, that the union didn’t believe a word the management said. So, when the management said: we’re going out of business. You have to accept our terms for a new contract or the brewery will close forever, the union scoffed and went on strike.

The brewery never reopened.

HakerA on March 7, 2010 at 9:27 PM

Okay people, how is it I’ve not seen a Billy Beer comment in this thread? You can buy unopened six packs on E-Bay for the love of crumb cake!

Goldenavatar on March 8, 2010 at 12:03 AM

I think a bigger problem is that God is being written out of Government. Religion founded this Government at least Ministers did. They wanted God in Government but it is being written out of it. If we do not base laws on Gods laws there is no base to write them on.

That leads to Anarchy and destruction of Government or a Dictatorship.

Steveangell on March 8, 2010 at 12:19 AM

. . . and in the short run, that would guarantee the DemoRats free reign – until there is no turning back from the destruction they have wrought on our nation.

honsy on March 7, 2010 at 11:12 AM

How does that differ from the current situation?

MarkTheGreat on March 8, 2010 at 9:49 AM

Hotair gets a kick out of moderating for normal words, and then they really love putting up posts with those words in them. It’s a game … a lefty game, but that’s what we have, here.

neurosculptor on March 7, 2010 at 12:11 PM

Be careful, just last week Allah threatened to ban me for using the kind of mispellings you just used, to get around their brain dead filters. And on a thread where that word was the discussion issue of the day.

MarkTheGreat on March 8, 2010 at 9:56 AM

We need to concentrate on other issues, because this one is a lost cause.

July 10 on March 7, 2010 at 12:58 PM

If we can’t reduce the size of govt, then all is lost, and those other issues won’t matter.

MarkTheGreat on March 8, 2010 at 9:58 AM

The fact that the Republicans could only offer John McCain as their best candidate in the last election, made me realize that the GOP is full of Schlitz.

realitycheck on March 7, 2010 at 1:43 PM

I’m late to the thread. Love this.

Angry Dumbo on March 8, 2010 at 11:53 AM

To you naysayers who bleat constantly about third parties guaranteeing a win for democrats, that will no longer be my concern.

Might as well vote for Democrats and cut out the middle man.

NoDonkey on March 7, 2010 at 8:55 PM

I’ve always thought this formulation was too simplistic. It doesn’t account for the dynamic nature of the political process over time. Some necessary realignments will simply not happen within a single election cycle, especially when money and power (such as that wielded by Big Gov’t) are on the line.

Our system isn’t designed for third parties. We don’t have a parliament.

What if the “third” party doesn’t last past a single election cycle? What if it’s not a permanent “third” party that is being formed, but rather a realignment that will take roughly one-and-a-half to two election cycles to play out? We’ve had realignments before in American history. Are you saying that such realignments are pre-emptively off limits unless they can be completed within a single cycle (and using the existing party machinery)? Good luck.

And if a realignment-by-new-party were to happen, then once the new party siphoned off all of the remaining “intransigent”, “childish” GOP votes (due to the very don’t-dilute-your-vote arguments you yourself advocate), I don’t think we’d be talking about “three” parties anymore anyhow; far from it. From that point on we’d only be speaking of the two surviving parties.

Your third party gets as big as the GOP and guess what we get? 25% of the votes get you – nothing at all. Corrupt, incompetent, worthless Democrats as far as the eye can see.

This is a valid argument up to, but not past, the point where we already have all those things now. There may come a point at which the number of voters who think the “temporary” trade-off is worth it will exceed a critical threshold, at which point they will vote as a bloc for a new party. Now, you can bemoan this, or demand that all of this shuffling and reordering happen within a single election cycle, in order to minimize any long-term damage vis-a-vis the Democrats, but that option may eventually come to look like the unrealistic, utopian one. And if so, then so be it.

You can be a child and have a temper tantrum, or you can grow up and grab and eyeful of reality. Third parties aren’t viable in this country, period.

No one is suggesting they want the old GOP to hang around, to provide a permanent 3-party split. All they are suggesting is a realignment back to two parties, albeit one that may take longer than a single cycle. So, you think the grudging acceptance of a realignment that takes 2 cycles to play out is being “childish”? It might also be described as “realistic”, or “willing to work with the situation at hand”, depending what your instincts tell you.

Ultimately — at least for those of us who are not being disingenuous in having these discussions — the question comes down to, which is the worse sucker’s bet. Tough call, and I don’t think we necessarily know the answer up front.

P.S. If the Republicans can’t earn their keep then maybe it’s time for them to “go out of business.” (No?) At some point, hapless voters will certainly grow tired of being ordered, for the umpteenth time, by the Michael Medveds of the world to “bail out” the Republican Party yet again, like some GM or Chrysler boondoggle. At some level, aren’t we somehow obligated to practice what we preach? Does the tough-love philosophy of the Republican party extend only to everything and everybody besides itself?

RD on March 8, 2010 at 2:54 PM

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