New House Dem strategy on ObamaCare: hostaging

posted at 2:20 pm on March 5, 2010 by Ed Morrissey

The distrust between House and Senate Democrats has produced a new innovation in the strategy to produce a health-care reform bill.  Worried that the White House has plans to simply sign the Senate bill and skip reconciliation that would address concerns from the lower chamber, Democrats now want to consider passing the Senate bill but keeping it in hand to force the Senate to act on reconciliation first.  Jon Ward reports for the Daily Caller that this may be within parliamentary procedure:

Chances for a health-care bill grew dimmer on Thursday, by most indications, but House Democrats may have found a way to force the Senate to work with them that would remove a key roadblock to passing the reform desired by President Obama.

Call it a “hold-plus-reconciliation” strategy.

The House could pass the Senate bill as is, then hold it in their chamber instead of sending it to the president so he could sign it into law. That bill, passed but not out of the House’s hands, would be the leverage to bring the Senate to the table.

Many House Democrats who dislike the Senate bill fear that the upper chamber would pay lip service to making improvements through reconciliation, only to back away from promises after the House passed the Senate bill.

“We don’t trust the Senate to do anything they say they’re going to do,” Rep. Anthony Weiner, New York Democrat, told The Daily Caller.

In other words, they want to hold the bill hostage to get reconciliation accomplished in parallel.  It’s a novel approach, but one that exposes a deep mistrust between the two chambers.  If House Democrats can’t trust their Senate colleagues, should we trust either group?

Can this work?  In Article I Section 7, the US Constitution requires that Presidents must veto bills within ten days of Congress presenting them in order to keep them from becoming law.   After ten days, a bill becomes law with or without a presidential signature, unless Congress goes out of session in that period, in which case a failure to sign  the bill would act as a veto.  It was this clause that kept Presidents from traveling abroad while Congress was in session before the airplane.  However, there is no definition of a time frame for presenting the bill to the White House, so arguably Nancy Pelosi could hold the bill until the end of the current session — in December.

This becomes an interesting question for the Senate parliamentarian, however.  Can the Senate amend a law that doesn’t exist, with or without reconciliation?  For that matter, can the House?  Ward’s source believes that both can:

The question is whether Congress can work on legislation that changes a bill that has not yet been signed into law.

While Democrats did not appear to have reached a conclusion on Thursday, parlimentarian experts on the House Republican side with decades of experience told The Daily Caller that it could be done.

Allahpundit and I have both considered the idea of a last-minute betrayal of House progressives by Barack Obama to be rather unlikely.  It seems that House progressives don’t hold their colleagues and their President in the same regard.  In reaction, they’re reaching far down into their bag of tricks to get a deeply unpopular bill passed in this session — for which voters will hold them in even lower regard at the midterms.

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 2

This all presumes that Reid will be able to twist enough arms in the senate to vote for the reconcilliation bill.
This bill is putting items from the House bill, that the senate took out of their bill precisely because they weren’t popular in the senate.

MarkTheGreat on March 5, 2010 at 3:13 PM

It’s kind of creepy that there is this much distrust within the single majority party. I hope it works to their detriment.

Cindy Munford on March 5, 2010 at 3:17 PM

Hold it….

by this interpretation, then the Speaker of the House, and the VICE PRESIDENT (as head of the Senate) would then have defacto VETO power over bills, because they could just “keep a bill in their office” if they didn’t like said bill.

Not what the Founders intended…

Romeo13 on March 5, 2010 at 3:20 PM

I’ll say it again..it’s a suicide pact between the star crossed lover..the House and Senate, with each side saying ‘you first’.

Ain’t gonna happen.

DrW on March 5, 2010 at 3:20 PM

Doesn’t reconciliation involve the 2 houses sitting down together to reconcile differences between their versions?

If the House passes the Senate bill, what differences are there? Why would reconciliation even be allowed?

And if reconciliation IS used, the Senate can’t reconcile differences without House involvement, can they?

hawksruleva on March 5, 2010 at 3:27 PM

Look at them…it’s the dirty scheming back stabbing trickery snake oil salesman throw each other under the bus bunch. The U.S. Government is now officially declared despicable. Quite possibly even more despicable than greedy insurance and bank CEOs they’re trying to “protect” us from!

scalleywag on March 5, 2010 at 3:28 PM

hawksruleva on March 5, 2010 at 3:27 PM

Don’t try to make sense of it… they are making it up as the go along…

History and tradition be damned… its all about “Change”.

Romeo13 on March 5, 2010 at 3:29 PM

Doesn’t reconciliation involve the 2 houses sitting down together to reconcile differences between their versions?

Thats a conference committee, where each house drafts the same bill. They meet in conference, work out the differences, then run back to their respective chamber and vote on the bill.

In ObamaCare, the House and Senate are unable/unwilling to hash out a compromise bill, especially now since each house would have to vote again. Reconciliation is a process in which “budgetary only” bills can pass without full debate. Many provisions of ObamaCare do not qualify for reconciliation.

If the House passes the Senate bill, what differences are there? Why would reconciliation even be allowed?

If the House passes the senate bill as is, it goes to POTUS. If they make a single change (and they want to….thats the whole argument), it goes back to the senate where it dies. This is relative to the full 3,000 page bill known as ObamaCare. Reconciliation is available at anytime, but not on ObamaCare as it is.

And if reconciliation IS used, the Senate can’t reconcile differences without House involvement, can they?

hawksruleva on March 5, 2010 at 3:27 PM

Yes, that’s what reconciliation is for. And why it’s scope is limited to budget, debt, or deficit reduction bills. It cannot be used to create a penny of new spending.

BobMbx on March 5, 2010 at 3:38 PM

Massa resigning effective tomorrow.

That reduces number of voting members in the House to 431 and the number of votes needed to pass ObamaCare from 217 to 216!

SwampYankee on March 5, 2010 at 3:44 PM

According to the Legislative Process page on the White House site (in the touristy-type section of the website), a bill must be signed by the Speaker of the House and the President of the Senate. Then the paperwork is handled by the chamber where the legislation was originated (in this case the Senate), and is sent to the president’s desk. This raises several questions in my head, some of which have already been raised.

1. Why would the fence-sitting House members trust Pelosi to not sign the bill if the reconciliation bill does not make it through the Senate?

2. Does this process even make sense, in that the Vice President, as President of the Senate, could refuse to sign any bills he did not like and thus the legislation would never reach the President’s desk, in effect granting the VP a stronger veto pen than the President’s? Heck, are we saying Cheney could have stopped McCain-Feingold from reaching the President’s desk? This HAS to violate the spirit of the Constitution. The Constitution says nothing about requiring the Speaker of House and Pres of Senate’s signatures. It simply says that after the bill passes both houses, it must be sent to the President’s desk and either be signed or ignored for 10 days before it can become law. There must be some House or Senate rules that govern the process. Anyone know the details?

3. Would the Senate, as the originating chamber, wait for Pelosi’s signature, or go ahead and move forward on normal schedule to send the bill to the President once the House vote took place and passed?

4. How does the House guarantee that Obama signs the reconciliation bill? What if he preferred just the Senate bill.

5. Someone in the comments said that reconciliation bills expire after 5 years. Can anyone confirm? If so, do the fence-sitting House members realize that the fixes they want expire after 5 years if passed through reconciliation. If not, we should make sure they do.

willamettevalley on March 5, 2010 at 3:45 PM

Massa resigning effective tomorrow Monday.

That reduces number of voting members in the House to 431 and the number of votes needed to pass ObamaCare from 217 to 216!

FIFM

SwampYankee on March 5, 2010 at 3:45 PM

Just for fun -

If House Democrats don’t trust Reed and Obama to follow through on their promises of reconciliation, do they really trust Pelosi to hold the bill once they pass it?

Ordinary American on March 5, 2010 at 3:51 PM

Massa resigning effective tomorrow Monday.

That reduces number of voting members in the House to 431 and the number of votes needed to pass ObamaCare from 217 to 216!

But Massa was a vote for the bill, right? So while 1 less vote is needed, the Dems lose 1 vote, so nothing’s really changed.

However, this means that Republican rep from Georgia that is running for governor there can probably go ahead and resign now, since he was only waiting to keep the votes needed at 217. It doesn’t matter how many against, only how many members total and a majority have to vote for. The vote could be 215-190 with a bunch of members not voting, and it would not pass if 215 wasn’t a majority of the current members.

Normally there are 435 members, so you need 218 to pass a bill. Even if there is one vacancy, at 434 you still need 218, as 217 isn’t over 50%. But currently there are 3 vacancies, leaving 432 members and still requiring 217 for a majority. If Massa leaves, that lowers to 431, and now only 216 are needed. If the Georgia Repuplican resigns, it’s 430 and 216 are still needed.

willamettevalley on March 5, 2010 at 3:59 PM

Someone in the comments said that reconciliation bills expire after 5 years. Can anyone confirm? If so, do the fence-sitting House members realize that the fixes they want expire after 5 years if passed through reconciliation. If not, we should make sure they do.

willamettevalley on March 5, 2010 at 3:45 PM

Yes, its true. Keep in mind reconciliation is not for new legislation, but for budget purposes only. The goal here for the Dems isn’t the goal-line, but merely to advance the ball. History shows that once a program is enacted, it’s all but impossible to kill it. Grow it, oh yeah. Kill it…nope.

ObamaCare cannot be passed as it is through reconciliation. ObamaCare V3.0 (Obama’s personal version) is much smaller in scope, and will most likely be the one that is offered for reconiciliation.

BobMbx on March 5, 2010 at 4:01 PM

willamettevalley on March 5, 2010

No, Massa voted against the bill the last time.

Wethal on March 5, 2010 at 4:03 PM

Blue on Blue cage fight. Let’s get ready to rummmmmmmmmble!

TN Mom on March 5, 2010 at 4:04 PM

Stupak language apparently cannot be added to the Senate bill through reconcilation.

Wethal on March 5, 2010 at 4:04 PM

Hitler’s Take on ObamaCare.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGJiuhPi1JY&feature=related

mwdiver on March 5, 2010 at 4:04 PM

From Yellow Dogs to Mad Dogs in one long year.

Dhuka on March 5, 2010 at 4:12 PM

Okay, maybe someone said this already, but I don’t get it.

The House is going to ‘hold’ the bill hostage because they are afraid that the senate won’t make the changes, if any at all, that the house wants. But if the house signs the bill and the senate does nothing the bill automatically becomes law and the senate gets what it wants anyway?!? Where is the motivation for the senate to do anything?

Now, I’m so ‘rocket surgeon’, but isn’t this a win-win for the senate and a lose-lose for the house?

How much bigger of dumbasses could they possible be?

Ltlgeneral64 on March 5, 2010 at 4:13 PM

You know, all the time they have wasted on this stupid “reform” Bill they could have been spending on getting millions of unemployed Americans back to work.

Which of course, with the jackass majority in this Clown Congress, would mean millions more unemployed.

So by all means, keep grappling with this tar baby, Democrats. It keeps you from making things worse in all other aspects of the government, before we can kick your worthless asses to the curb in November.

NoDonkey on March 5, 2010 at 4:19 PM

Even if the House held it, Obama would lean on Pelosi to release the bill and send it to him. He signs it, and that’s the law.

Obama would say thanks, and move on to Shamnesty. Reid would have to get reconciliation through the Senate and Pelosi would then have to get reconciliation through the House, at the same time the MSM and Obama would be teliing them to move on, and “fix it later” because all those poor illegal aliens just can’t wait in the shadows any longer.

Wethal on March 5, 2010 at 4:22 PM

Okay, maybe someone said this already, but I don’t get it.

The House is going to ‘hold’ the bill hostage because they are afraid that the senate won’t make the changes, if any at all, that the house wants. But if the house signs the bill and the senate does nothing the bill automatically becomes law and the senate gets what it wants anyway?!? Where is the motivation for the senate to do anything?

Now, I’m so ‘rocket surgeon’, but isn’t this a win-win for the senate and a lose-lose for the house?

How much bigger of dumbasses could they possible be?

Ltlgeneral64 on March 5, 2010 at 4:13 PM

Here’s what Pelosi is doing. First, the House wants changes to the senate version of the bill.

If they make changes to it, the bill has to go back to the senate; it will never pass because of the 60-vote cloture rule.

So, Nancy is rolling the dice by promising the senate to vote for the senate version of ObamaCare without amendments. The House would then hold the bill (not give it to Obama) until the senate passes legislation that amends ObamaCare with the changes the House wants. Once the Senate passes that bill and delivers it to the house, Pelosi will deliver the BIG ObamaCare bill to Obama who will sign it; at that time the legislation the senate passed that amends the ObamaCare bill with the changes the House wants will be voted in the House, then delivered to Obama for signature.

The problem with this is getting 60 votes in the Senate for the provisions they took out to get the 60 votes the first time.

Sheesh. Oh, the bill will not automatically become law. The 10 day counter doesn’t start until POTUS has the bill. Then, if in 10 days, POTUS has not signed it or sent it back, it becomes law.

BobMbx on March 5, 2010 at 4:25 PM

Do the Democrats ever stop to think that if they have to go through these machinations to pass this obamanation that there us something seriously wrong?… Do they think the United States is somehow exempted or immune fron civil war?

CCRWM on March 5, 2010 at 4:40 PM

Call it a “hold-plus-reconciliation” strategy.

So they have just gone plain bat sh1t crazy in the house.

Dr Evil on March 5, 2010 at 4:46 PM

We’re all parliamentarians now.

txhsmom on March 5, 2010 at 4:57 PM

So, are these tactics going to be the new normal?

Buy Danish on March 5, 2010 at 5:04 PM

Nancy and Hoyer can plot all they want. They still don’t have the votes.

GarandFan on March 5, 2010 at 5:05 PM

Both Chambers probably think that that’s what they’d do in this case so neither trusts the other. Some variation of the pot calling the kettle black?

jeanie on March 5, 2010 at 5:19 PM

The longer the Dhims remain in control of Congress, the more their behavior regresses to the level of an assembly of legislators in a banana republic.

ya2daup on March 5, 2010 at 5:21 PM

Nancy and Hoyer can plot all they want. They still don’t have the votes.

GarandFan on March 5, 2010 at 5:05 PM

And X gets the square!

They can say anything they want. Until they get enough yes votes, they ain’t got squat.

BobMbx on March 5, 2010 at 5:28 PM

hold the bill

In an age of email, fax machines, et al, what does this mean? Are you saying they have to physically walk some stack of paper down Pennsylvania Ave for it to get signed before it can become law?

JDPerren on March 5, 2010 at 5:40 PM

P. Noonan wrote a great article.

Schadenfreude on March 5, 2010 at 5:49 PM

Those damn obstructive Republicans. This is all their fault!

mr.blacksheep on March 5, 2010 at 6:06 PM

It seems that House progressives don’t hold their colleagues and their President in the same regard.

The terms “communist” and “socialist” became very negative lables during and after the McCarthy exposures. Searching around for a why to survive, they found the lable of “progressive” still fit their need to identify themselves, yet was less threating and reveling of intent.

We still have the Socialist chipping away under the covers of Unions and we still have the Communist Party USA, who shares a virtually identical polictical platform, or vise-ver-sa with Obama, but no socialist or communist politicians. Instead we allow them to hide in the shadow of deception with the lable of “progressive”, a lable that interestingly enough, seems to be an exclusive to the democratic party.

Call it like it is; they are socialist or they are communist. Makes things a lot more clear to the voters. That way we will know we have a communist leader as president, supported by a socialist congress who are doing their best to supress the party, the voices that protest, and the majority of the American people who disagree with them. Call them what they are for they can not be called by their name and survive.

Franklyn on March 5, 2010 at 9:27 PM

Ah, nice try, Nancy. The reconciliation law itself, PL 93-344, is quite clear on that point: “The term “budget authority” means the authority provided by Federal law to incur financial obligations,…”

A bill doesn’t become a LAW until it is reported to the President and he either signs it or holds it ten days without signing it. A reconciliation procedure can’t work on a “it’s GOING to be a law”, whether or not the House votes on it.

Then again, when did what the law actually says matter to this bunch?

Zumkopf on March 5, 2010 at 9:35 PM

Comment pages: 1 2