E-mails from National Academy of Sciences plot attacks on AGW skeptics

posted at 9:30 am on March 5, 2010 by Ed Morrissey

Earlier this week, I criticized the American media for ignoring the rapidly-increasing number of scandals surrounding the IPCC, the University of East Anglia CRU, and the anthropogenic global-warming movement in general.  Today, an American newspaper breaks news of yet another scandal involving AGW scientists  and e-mail — but this time here in the US.  The Washington Times obtained e-mails sent through the National Academy of Sciences that show AGW scientists conspiring to attack critics:

Undaunted by a rash of scandals over the science underpinning climate change, top climate researchers are plotting to respond with what one scientist involved said needs to be “an outlandishly aggressively partisan approach” to gut the credibility of skeptics.

In private e-mails obtained by The Washington Times, climate scientists at the National Academy of Sciences say they are tired of “being treated like political pawns” and need to fight back in kind. Their strategy includes forming a nonprofit group to organize researchers and use their donations to challenge critics by running a back-page ad in the New York Times.

“Most of our colleagues don’t seem to grasp that we’re not in a gentlepersons’ debate, we’re in a street fight against well-funded, merciless enemies who play by entirely different rules,” Paul R. Ehrlich, a Stanford University researcher, said in one of the e-mails.

Some scientists question the tactic and say they should focus instead on perfecting their science, but the researchers who are organizing the effort say the political battle is eroding confidence in their work.

Perhaps the scientists should concentrate more on science than advocacy.  In fact, that was the conclusion of several people in the e-mail chain, warning against getting into a big public-relations battle when the supposedly “settled science” of the IPCC has all but utterly collapsed.  Even if one is inclined to the most paranoid possible perspective on the meltdown, a $50,000 back-page ad in the New York Times will hardly offset all of the negative publicity that AGW scientists have managed to create on their own.

And besides, a $50,000 back-page ad in the New York Times isn’t going to reach people inclined towards skepticism on AGW anyway.  Do these scientists realize who reads the Gray Lady?  The only people impressed by an ad in the NYT will be the Times’ business office.

Placing ads won’t prove AGW theory.  The only way to do that would be to produce solid, reproducible results in completely open-source research with transparent data and methodology … which is what we used to call science before AGW advocates hijacked the term to describe religious belief.  One researcher says that the plotting does nothing to build credibility for the science, which these very people undermined with their doomsday predictions in the first place:

“Sounds like this group wants to step up the warfare, continue to circle the wagons, continue to appeal to their own authority, etc.,” said Judith A. Curry, a climate scientist at the Georgia Institute of Technology. “Surprising, since these strategies haven’t worked well for them at all so far.”

She said scientists should downplay their catastrophic predictions, which she said are premature, and instead shore up and defend their research. She said scientists and institutions that have been pushing for policy changes “need to push the disconnect button for now,” because it will be difficult to take action until public confidence in the science is restored.

“Hinging all of these policies on global climate change with its substantial element of uncertainty is unnecessary and is bad politics, not to mention having created a toxic environment for climate research,” she said.

“Appeal to their own authority” is a fairly elegant way of pointing out the hubris in AGW advocates who declared the science “settled” and began to brand everyone who questioned it as “deniers.”  Stephen Dinan reports that Stanford researcher Stephen Schneider accused Senator James Inhofe of “McCarthyesque” attacks for urging a criminal investigation into potential fraud in the AGW movement.  Schneider must have missed the calls from AGW advocates to have any weatherman who expressed doubt about global warming to be decertified as meteorologists, or questioning the patriotism of Americans who dare to question the sputtering consensus.  Nothing McCarthyesque about that, is there?

At least the NAS has the good sense to realize how bad this looks.  They insisted to Dinan that they had nothing to do with facilitating this effort and that the researchers are merely using their e-mail servers to pass the messages back and forth.  Maybe the NAS should take the time to remind these advocates that they should focus on performing to scientific standards and let the results inform the policy.  Instead, it appears that we have a nascent American version of the East Anglia CRU strategy — which didn’t work out too well for the UEA CRU, its director, or the UN panel that relied on its efforts.

Update: Gabriel Malor at Ace’s place picks up on another part of the story I missed — the inclusion of Paul Ehrlich in this group:

But then come back here and recall with me that Paul Ehrlich is one of the most discredited pseudo-scientific alarmists of all time. In 1968 he predicted that population growth would exceed the resources available on the planet, resulting in decades of famine and disease. He conned universities and governments into thinking that hundreds of millions of people would die by the 1980s.

His error, though he refuses to this day to admit it, was failing to consider such obvious things as: (1) more people means more land being farmed, not less; (2) improvements in farming techniques; (3) people (outside of academe, I mean) don’t just sit around and wait to starve; and (4) the market regulates scarcity far better than idiot pseudoscientists expect.

Ehrlich wrote The Population Bomb, which also included this interesting advice for governments of the future: that they should put “temporary sterilants” in the water supply and then closely regulate the antidote in order to choose who could reproduce and when.  If he’s the leading light of AGW theory, that explains (a) why it’s not science-based at all but rather a screen for statist control, and (b) why it’s collapsing as a science.

Update II: David Harsanyi reminds us that Ehrlich mentored John Holdren, director of the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy.

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Comment pages: 1 2 3 4

Placing ads won’t prove AGW theory. The only way to do that would be to produce solid, reproducible results in completely open-source research with transparent data and methodology

But by then it will be too late and we’ll all drown!

July 10 on March 5, 2010 at 12:16 PM

Every comment here either seems to be ‘crr6′ parroting his nonsense or others rising to the bait to respond to it.

Leave the shill alone.

Is there evidence of human impact on climate? Yes.

Is it strong enough to conclude human impact is controlling, or even significant, or that any recent evidence of temperature change is outside historical norms? Not at this point.

The problem is the data’s crap.

Even Phil Jones is now admitting that 40% of the warming in UEA’s data is probably urban heat island effect – UHI being something the warmists have spent the past two decades pretending didn’t exist.

Any time someone starts looking at one of the ‘adjusted’ data sets, from which all the scaremongering predictions are derived, they find that historical numbers for rural stations – stations whose siting has not changed in 50+ years – have been adjusted DOWNWARD for reasons no one can document, the result of these adjustments has been to make the rural stations (whose trends are substantially flat) match the urban stations’ temperature trends.

Likewise the Medieval Warm Period, these guys have spent a very long time massaging their numbers to hide it, minimize it, now they’ve backpedaled to claiming that it was localized to the Northern Hemisphere.

JEM on March 5, 2010 at 12:17 PM

I just impacted the climate. This always seems to happen after my morning coffee.

July 10 on March 5, 2010 at 12:20 PM

Is there evidence of human impact on climate? Yes.

Is it strong enough to conclude human impact is controlling, or even significant, or that any recent evidence of temperature change is outside historical norms? Not at this point.

The problem is the data’s crap.

The problem is the language used to describe the situation. What do people mean when the say “Climate Change” or “Global Warming” or “anthropogenic global warming”? What they imply is: Catastrophic Man-Made Global Warming! The keyword is catastrophic. It is almost always left out, and yet the only reason to “do something” about “climate change” is to prevent catastrophe.

Why is the word “catastrophic” left out? Because it is absurd to talk about catastrophic man made global warming. Anyone who says they actually believe in catastrophic man-made global warming is either lying or a moron.

July 10 on March 5, 2010 at 12:28 PM

Some ploughman has definitely turned up their little nest:

But Mousie, thou are no thy-lane,
In proving foresight may be vain:
The best laid schemes o’ Mice an’ Men,
Gang aft agley,
An’ lea’e us nought but grief an’ pain,
For promis’d joy!
– Robert Burns

starboardhelm on March 5, 2010 at 12:31 PM

Wow! This thread was successfully hijacked…sadly.

d1carter on March 5, 2010 at 12:32 PM

The newest cause of Gorebal Warming?

Piltdown Man!

trigon on March 5, 2010 at 12:36 PM

Where are the trolls to tell us how perfect and wonderful the climate science in the U.S.A. is?

uknowmorethanme on March 5, 2010 at 12:36 PM

The only time these threads get interesting is when someone tries to hijack them.

Otherwise one or two people write in about what idiots these warmers are and how the science has been totally discredited.

Then, since we all agree, the thread pretty much dies.

MarkTheGreat on March 5, 2010 at 12:36 PM

Blah!

The proponents of AGW have callously treated the public like stupid children that need to be manipulated into doing “the right thing” for their own good. They have spent the credibility of their movement in junk science and political spin rather than just PROVING that the situation exists. The only thing we have learned from this entire episode is that the arrogance of the scientific community is at least a match for that of the politicians, and neither group is willing to be honest when their agenda is at stake. If they ever hope to recover, the AGW proponents need to perform impeccable research with unassailable conclusions that are so clear that nobody can sensibly argue them. Their problem is that it will never happen.

Hawthorne on March 5, 2010 at 12:39 PM

Where are the trolls to tell us how perfect and wonderful the climate science in the U.S.A. is?

uknowmorethanme on March 5, 2010 at 12:36 PM

Do you believe AGW is part of a vast global conspiracy perpetrated by liberal organizations, with the intention of enslaving you?

crr6 on March 5, 2010 at 10:36 AM

Nevermind.

uknowmorethanme on March 5, 2010 at 12:39 PM

Even if one is inclined to the most paranoid possible perspective on the meltdown, a $50,000 back-page ad in the New York Times will hardly offset all of the negative publicity that AGW scientists have managed to create on their own.

A New York Slimes ad? I guess they are just dispensing with the farce of peer-review amongst themselves, now.

LOL.

neurosculptor on March 5, 2010 at 12:52 PM

I’m just happy to have pointed out that the new point of contention is “the bad gas that you pass” and no matter WHY methane is being released into the atmosphere from Siberian tundra or points north, the fact is that at one time, in the distant past, the earth was warm enough to have grown plant life in these regions.
.
My contention is, and has been, especially after reading about CO2 absorption bands and saturation levels, that the earth is far more complex and dynamic than we really know. Scientists who deliver dire warnings and prophecies of doom over AGW are more apt to have a place in history alongside Vincent Price than Isaac Newton.
.
Just for good measure, gander at this compendium article which uses the work “apocalypse” in its title, from Salon. American news sources are “addicted” to overblown hype and fear-mongering, especially when it assists liberal statism but are slow to reverse course when “concerns” are shown to be, at best, “unproven.”

ExpressoBold on March 5, 2010 at 12:55 PM

Do you believe AGW is part of a vast global conspiracy perpetrated by liberal organizations, with the intention of enslaving you?

History has demonstrated – over and over again – that the intentions of you Leftists are completely irrelevant; what matters are the end results.

The French Revolution was intended to free “the people” from the capricious rule of the monarchy. What “the people” got was the Reign of Terror from their new Leftist masters…all in the name of “the public good”, of course.

The Soviet Union was intended to build an egalitarian “peoples” utopia. What “the people” got was the Great Purge from their new Leftist masters…all in the name of “the public good”, of course.

The Chinese Civil War? “The people” got the Great Leap Forward and The Cultural Revolution…all in the name of “the public good”, of course.

Cambodia? The Killing Fields…all in the name of “the public good”, of course.

Blacks in the US “helped” by the welfare state? What the black “people” got was this: prior to the welfare state, US blacks had some of the highest ratings amongst ethnic groups in terms of marriage rates, children born into married families, and employment rates and some of the LOWEST RATINGS in terms of out-of-wedlock births and criminality. After the welfare state? A complete reversal on all fronts, with an attendent skyrocketing of dependence on govt hand-outs.

Or let’s take a look at Great Britain. What are “the people” getting? How about a Labor Party that instituted an immigration policy intended to purposefully remake the country’s ethnic makeup. Or any number of ever-increasing, incremental assaults on “the people”, like taking overweight kids away from their parents for being too fat…or placing sensors in garbage cans to monitor and tax you for the amount of garbage you create. Once again, all in the name of “the public good”, of course.

AGW is no different. It’s a bald-faced attempt at controlling the planet’s energy consumption and production, forcing “the people” to live and work under the diktats that are handed down by unelected Leftists UN bureaucrats.

If Leftists control energy consumption and production, they control everything. For “the people” who are subject to such a sytem, that is slavery.

rvastar on March 5, 2010 at 12:56 PM

I thought that’s what the comments were for? Even spirited debate? So long as it doesn’t resort to viciousness, I think it’s interesting.

capejasmine on March 5, 2010 at 12:58 PM

huh?

crr6 on March 5, 2010 at 11:34 AM

That about sums up all its arguments.

fossten on March 5, 2010 at 1:00 PM

… and need to fight back in kind. Their strategy includes … running a back-page ad in the New York Times.

When did “skeptics” run an ad in the New York Times ? But isn’t putting something in the New York Times like preaching to the choir ?

Ace responds

… recall with me that Paul Ehrlich is one of the most discredited pseudo-scientific alarmists of all time. In 1968 he predicted that population growth would exceed the resources available on the planet, resulting in decades of famine and disease. He conned universities and governments into thinking that hundreds of millions of people would die by the 1980s.

With friends like this, who needs enemies.

J_Crater on March 5, 2010 at 1:03 PM

These guys must all be Democrats. They can’t argue the facts so they’re going to take out a back page ad to respread their propaganda. If the facts were on their side, they’d be arguing the facts, simple as that.

I’m sure they’re all sitting back bemoaning the fact they didn’t get their message out. The problem is, they did, and it’s been proven to be a huge stretch of the truth.

They’ve already succeeded, on scant evidence, of getting Europe to spend huge amounts of money doing cap and trade. The U.S. has banned the incandescent light bulb, all based on faulty science. Now, they have to prove it.

bflat879 on March 5, 2010 at 1:04 PM

Trust ccr6 to jump in and conclusively demonstrate (once again)he/she is completely insane. ccr6? As far as your (in)sanity is concerned? Well, just let me say: “On that particular topic ‘The science is settled’.

alwyr on March 5, 2010 at 1:14 PM

Is there evidence of human impact on climate? Yes.

Yes, there is some evidence of weather changes related to high density metropolitan areas but it is highly localized. Evidence of human impact on global climate, NO. Considering that our planet is 70 percent water and the oceans are the big heat and CO2 sink it’s not likely that humans will ever have a significant effect on global climate.

docdave on March 5, 2010 at 1:24 PM

Yes, there is some evidence of weather changes related to high density metropolitan areas but it is highly localized. Evidence of human impact on global climate, NO.

docdave on March 5, 2010 at 1:24 PM

Absolutely!
Another thing to consider is that there is no evidence that warming will cause global calamities. There is ample evidence that warming increases growing seasons and expands into regions where crop types do not necessarily do well. Example, England during Roman times growing grapes.

Cooling is more predictable and there is historical evidence to back it up. People starved during the mini-iceage.

Kini on March 5, 2010 at 1:49 PM

I feel so guilty every time I exhale.

MCGIRV on March 5, 2010 at 1:55 PM

If he’s the leading light of AGW theory, that explains (a) why it’s not science-based at all but rather a screen for statist control, and (b) why it’s collapsing as a science.

Speaking of outlandishly, aggressively partisan.

RightOFLeft on March 5, 2010 at 2:02 PM

What happened to ’6′, was it nap time?

MarkTheGreat on March 5, 2010 at 2:06 PM

Another thing to consider is that there is no evidence that warming will cause global calamities. There is ample evidence that warming increases growing seasons and expands into regions where crop types do not necessarily do well. Example, England during Roman times growing grapes.

Kini on March 5, 2010 at 1:49 PM

Beyond that CO2 is not a pollutant, it’s plant food. Plants grow bigger and stronger and need less water, when grown in an enhanced CO2 atmosphere.

MarkTheGreat on March 5, 2010 at 2:08 PM

As I’ve thought from the beginning -they’ve invested too many years propagandizing for the environmental weapon to let this fall so easily. Since obvious guilt, complicity, and illegal activity doesn’t deter them,they will continue to move foward looking for the slightest weakness and then “cap and redistribute”, or “son of cap and redistribute” will become reality!

Don L on March 5, 2010 at 2:28 PM

Beyond that CO2 is not a pollutant, it’s plant food. Plants grow bigger and stronger and need less water, when grown in an enhanced CO2 atmosphere.

MarkTheGreat on March 5, 2010 at 2:08 PM

Excellent point.
AGW proponents scare tactics are more science fiction than science facts.

This AGW is a money scheme to defraud people. Simple as that. Any calamity claims should be countered with a resounding “Prove It!”. How does a warming climate cause anything more than people wearing less clothing?

That in itself, could be a calamity.

Kini on March 5, 2010 at 2:50 PM

Apparently 42% of the “studies” cited in IPCC chapter 1, were never even peer reviewed.

http://nofrakkingconsensus.blogspot.com/2010/03/almost-half-non-peer-reviewed.html

MarkTheGreat on March 5, 2010 at 2:56 PM

That in itself, could be a calamity.

Kini on March 5, 2010 at 2:50 PM

That all depends on which people were wearing less clothes.
Me for example, would cause people across the planet to lose their appetites.

Heidi Klum?

MarkTheGreat on March 5, 2010 at 2:57 PM

Hydrothermal vents discovered off of Antarctica.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100303114012.htm

Could all of this warm water have something to do with those melting icebergs?

MarkTheGreat on March 5, 2010 at 3:00 PM

One of the arguments made over the years in favor of Mann’s infamous Hockeystick us that the NAS approved of his techniques. Now I’m wondering if the same scientists who signed off on his methods are behind this latest campaign.

nukemhill on March 5, 2010 at 3:03 PM

nukemhill on March 5, 2010 at 3:03 PM

One of the funny things about that claim, is that not a single one of the scientists who endorsed Mann’s work have any working knowledge of statistics.

It was a statistician who shattered the hockey stick.

MarkTheGreat on March 5, 2010 at 3:04 PM

Just to keep things “fair and balanced“: >

Climate change human link evidence ‘stronger’

I wonder why all articles of this nature never see the light of day at HA? Because you like being played and HA will oblige you.

Bill Blizzard on March 5, 2010 at 4:04 PM

Bill Blizzard on March 5, 2010 at 4:04 PM

The only one getting played Bill, is you.

There isn’t a scintilla of evidence in that so called article that hasn’t been explained away by people who actually no what they are talking about, years ago.

There is no evidence to support the notion humans are causing the planet to get warmer, and never has been.

MarkTheGreat on March 5, 2010 at 4:19 PM

Paul Ehrlich?

PAUL EHRLICH????!!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA

that is all.

bilups on March 5, 2010 at 4:24 PM

I wonder why all articles of this nature never see the light of day at HA? Because you like being played and HA will oblige you.

We’ll be more than happy to consider it…just as soon as the UK Met Office can demonstrate that their “findings” – along with those of the “110 research papers on the subject” they claim as sources – aren’t tainted at the source by the data manipulation, fabrication, and outright lies that have been pouring out of East Anglia University.

Data is only as reliable it’s source. When it comes to AGW, East Anglia University is the Source of Sources. It is THE SOURCE. And if it’s data is incorrect, everything that flows from that data is incorrect.

And you Leftists aren’t daft enough to not understand that truth. You just don’t care. Because in the end analysis, Leftist don’t care about truth…you only care about your fragile egos and the damage that would be done to them if you ever admitted you were wrong about anything.

rvastar on March 5, 2010 at 4:29 PM

rvastar on March 5, 2010 at 4:29 PM

Even if they could successfully prove warming, that’s not the same thing as proving that man is responsible for any of it. Much less all of it.

MarkTheGreat on March 5, 2010 at 4:32 PM

What’s the over under on Bill never returning to see if anyone responds to his little CRU regurgitation?

MarkTheGreat on March 5, 2010 at 4:33 PM

Bill Bliz = Mann or Phil Jones.

Note the name reference “blizzard”. A blatant attempt to hide his inner-warmer tendencies. Its a Freudian thing.

I mean, how much cred would we give if his name was, say, Bill Heatwave and he claimed he wasn’t biased?

BobMbx on March 5, 2010 at 4:52 PM

Just to be clear, appealing to their own authority *was* working quite well. It’s only the Climategate email leaks that have turned the tide.

edshepp on March 5, 2010 at 4:54 PM

Yes, there is some evidence of weather changes related to high density metropolitan areas but it is highly localized.

you might want to look at a night picture of North America, I think it is more than a localized problem. at least as far as North America is concerned.

RonK on March 5, 2010 at 5:06 PM

I wonder why all articles of this nature never see the light of day at HA? Because you like being played and HA will oblige you.

Bill Blizzard on March 5, 2010 at 4:04 PM

Uh … because it’s worthless? Did you read the article?

Feel free to bring up any points in the article you find bolster AGW.

darwin on March 5, 2010 at 5:08 PM

nukemhill on March 5, 2010 at 3:03 PM

One of the funny things about that claim, is that not a single one of the scientists who endorsed Mann’s work have any working knowledge of statistics.

It was a statistician who shattered the hockey stick.

MarkTheGreat on March 5, 2010 at 3:04 PM

Mark. I know about Steve McIntyre at Climate Audit. I’ve been following his work for years. But I wasn’t aware of your first point. Do you have a link documenting this?

I know, in general, that many climate scientists only get a smattering, if that, of statistical training, and many of the highly regarded climate science graduate programs have no requirements for any statistical coursework whatsoever. But this specific claim is a bit of a doozy, even by ClimateGate standards. If you can reference it, I’d love to see it. I know several people who really need to get that thrown at them, if it holds up.

nukemhill on March 5, 2010 at 5:11 PM

So they use $50,000 of our grant money to tell us they don’t have to give accurate information?
right2bright on March 5, 2010 at 9:40 AM

And let it be know your just too stupid to Understand the science!
So sit down, shut up and eat your Green Soylent wafer!

DSchoen on March 5, 2010 at 5:21 PM

Yeah, the science is settled: fake but accurate, the Dan Rather version of the scientific method.

Dhuka on March 5, 2010 at 5:50 PM

One of those trigger words that says be skeptical: “a study” 90 percent of which are 100 percent BS.

Dasher on March 5, 2010 at 5:50 PM

Soooo….how is this a scandal again?
crr6 on March 5, 2010 at 9:55 AM

It lays out the “plan of attack” against those who question the so called Science of AGW.

“an outlandishly aggressively partisan approach” to gut the credibility of skeptics”.


Appeal to their own authority” is a fairly elegant way of pointing out the hubris in AGW advocates who declared the science “settled” and began to brand everyone who questioned it as “deniers.””

However the flaw in this plan is the need for a large body of “useful idiots to parrot back the claims”.
The “debate is over” “consensus” “peer review” the “scientific method” “flat earthers” and so on.

DSchoen on March 5, 2010 at 5:58 PM

CRR you are the useful idiot. Sheesh . Truly sad.

CWforFreedom on March 5, 2010 at 6:00 PM

“Appeal to their own authority” is a fairly elegant way of pointing out the hubris in AGW advocates who declared the science “settled” and began to brand everyone who questioned it as “deniers.”

Yes, this is what Al Gore said, and he is not a scientist. Ed, you continue to link Al Gore with bonafide scientists, and no scientist, speaking with a scientific voice, is going to say that the science is “settled”. Science is never settled.

I am glad, at least, that you quote Dr. Curry of Georgia Tech. She is speaking properly as a scientist. Note that she doesn’t discredit the research, but rather discredits those acting as policy advocates (which is not what scientists do when thay are acting as scientists).

oakland on March 5, 2010 at 7:06 PM

Considering that our planet is 70 percent water and the oceans are the big heat and CO2 sink it’s not likely that humans will ever have a significant effect on global climate

There is abundant evidence that what you say has little merit.

oakland on March 5, 2010 at 7:10 PM

Only High speed rail can save the Planet!!!!

daesleeper on March 5, 2010 at 7:38 PM

when the supposedly “settled science” of the IPCC has all but utterly collapsed

Boy, you guys are just like Democrats. You hope that if you say it enough time, it becomes true. Never mind the UK Met Office\’s recent report showing that the case is stronger than ever, notwithstanding the pseudoscandals you keep misrepresenting.

Hal_10000 on March 5, 2010 at 8:11 PM

notwithstanding the pseudoscandals you keep misrepresenting.

What “pseudoscandals” are you referring to ?

oakland on March 5, 2010 at 8:19 PM

I wonder if they have ever tied to just publish the truth?

You know that way skeptics could see the data and would have to shut up. Now, I no this would be a major departure from their current practices but, isn’t it worth a shot?

TheSitRep on March 5, 2010 at 8:37 PM

I wonder if they have ever tied to just publish the truth?

The data and their analyses are available for all to see. If one wants the facts, all one needs to do is a little searching.

oakland on March 5, 2010 at 8:41 PM

They can’t argue the facts so they’re going to take out a back page ad to respread their propaganda. If the facts were on their side, they’d be arguing the facts, simple as that.

They can’t argue the facts according to who? According to the author of a right-leaning blog site? Or are you a research scientist who has spent a career studying climate change?

The people who claim that the facts can’t be argued are the ones who generally don’t understand what facts matter or how the facts are inter-related. There are many ways that people try to ‘disprove’ the theory of evolution based on ‘facts’. And some arguments that focus on a single fact may sound compelling, but that alone doesn’t undermine the validity of evolutionary theory.

Believe it or not, the scientists at Stanford, MIT, Michigan, Notre Dame and every major research university in the US have reached the same conclusion on global warming science. And with no offense to Ed, I simply trust their opinion more than the relatively small number of qualified skeptics. If Stanford announces research that over-consumption of whiskey is likely to cause mouth cancer, I’m going to believe Stanford. It may be that the results published by Stanford are in some ways incomplete or that a researcher who backs the results in Finland is a jerk, but I still don’t have a reason to believe that American science is illegitimate or tainted. If you actually attended a talk on climate change at one of America’s leading research universities, you’d probably leave with a different impression about the motives of the scientists involved. There isn’t a global conspiracy. There isn’t a shared goal of sticking it to conservatives. It’s just science, even if you don’t like the results.

bayam on March 5, 2010 at 9:11 PM

Believe it or not, the scientists at Stanford, MIT, Michigan, Notre Dame and every major research university in the US have reached the same conclusion on global warming science.

bayam on March 5, 2010 at 9:11 PM

That’s easy to do when they’re all using the same global data set, adjusted and homogenized by NOAA just for “accuracy” of course.

There’s so many holes in AGW it’s ridiculous to give it any credence, not to mention nearly everyone involved in leadership positions all stand to make, or have made millions off this scam. Should we mention how much Gore has made off this junk science?

Even the use of the highly touted satellite data is skewed. Satellite measurements of sea ice and temperature began at the end of a three decade cooling period when temperatures were cool and ice was thick. To expect sea ice to remain at those same levels as we warm is misleading and disingenuous.

Scam … by the way, they were wailing about global warming in the 1940′s too, before they started moaning about global cooling, which of course magically morphed back into global warming hysteria.

darwin on March 5, 2010 at 10:19 PM

but I still don’t have a reason to believe that American science is illegitimate or tainted.

bayam on March 5, 2010 at 9:11 PM

Man, do you have some catching up to do.

darwin on March 5, 2010 at 10:31 PM

Man, do you have some catching up to do.

Really? Which research university victimized you? UM or Stanford?

Before global warming science became ‘controversial’ in the minds of people on the right, MIT, UM, and Stanford were credited for some pretty amazing breakthroughs, esp. in medicine, life sciences, genetics, and applied physics. Now I’m supposed to be surprised that human knowledge and technological progress are growing at an exponential rate. After all, according to some on the right, scientists and researches are nothing more are a bunch of politically motivated hacks who simply make things up to support their big conspiracies.

bayam on March 5, 2010 at 10:37 PM

bayam on March 5, 2010 at 10:37 PM

I have no idea what this fantastic research is … because I’m sure if it bolstered AGW in any way the media would fall all over themselves spreading the good news.

The bottom line is the science has been corrupted from the getgo. Theories were made, and data was either massaged, or made up to fit it.

Virtually anyone dealing in climate science uses data sets from the GHCN, maintained by the National Climate Data Center, an offspring of NOAA. There is substantial evidence that these data sets have been manipulated.

It’s these numbers that the UN’s IPCC based their dire predictions and costly recommendations on.

Not all scientists are “bad”, but scientists are human too and money and power can influence them just as easy as it does anyone else. Billions of dollars have been thrown at scientists under one condition … their work must validate AGW or the money stops flowing.

darwin on March 5, 2010 at 10:53 PM

We need a James O’Keefe doing undercover videos on these “scientists.” There’s much, much, much, much more money at stake here. Not just money, power and freedom.

Narutoboy on March 5, 2010 at 11:05 PM

Billions of dollars have been thrown at scientists under one condition … their work must validate AGW or the money stops flowing.

That’s the most dishonest argument of all. You could make the same case against scientists in almost any field- including scientists whose research suggests that smoking is bad for your health. It’s even more dishonest when the industries that have the most to gain by disproving global warming theory control so much political power and have so much money.

To say that an entire population of people are corrupt amounts to character assassination of the worst kind. It’s an attack of last resort made by armchair critics and hypocrites, not by people who are seriously making a scientific case.

bayam on March 5, 2010 at 11:11 PM

We need a James O’Keefe doing undercover videos on these “scientists.” There’s much, much, much, much more money at stake here. Not just money, power and freedom.

I’d send O’Keefe to Silicon Valley as a starting point, since virtually every major internet company is run by liberals. Starting with Google and Facebook. Same for Apple, the liberal giant. We may find that the internet is nothing more than a liberal scam and the iPad is a conspiracy to trick conservatives and promote fraudulent science.

bayam on March 5, 2010 at 11:22 PM

bayam on March 5, 2010 at 10:37 PM

Do you know what you get when you mix clean water with dirty water?

Dirty water.

Most (not all) of the scientists you trust have been basing their extrapolations, interpretations and various other methods on a handful of datasets – most of which have now been shown to be DEEPLY flawed.

It is time for a MASSIVE review, and probably the collection of a lot of uncorrupted data, and instead we have circling-the-wagons, doubling-down, and various other easily-metaphored activities.

It’s not that scientists are WORSE than anyone else, it’s that they aren’t BETTER than anyone else – they’re the same kind of human beings, and don’t need to be treated any differently.

For a variety of reasons, including the fact that reporters don’t particularly understand science, and that many scientists are introverts who don’t particuylarly like to explain themselves, some pretty bad cultural assumptions have developed, from Phil Jones “we don’t need to share our data” to extensive “them and us” reactions within a supposedly iconoclastic community, and on to the hysterical flamethrowing “deniers” comparisons and declarations by Weather Channelistas and people like David “throw them in jail” Suzuki.

Don’t forget the dishonest “corporate shill” accusations from the biggest financial growth industry in science over the last 20 years.

In short (too late), the scientific community (or at least the most public parts of it) has become complacent when it comes to accuracy and accountability, and that WILL change, whether the reform is internal or imposed externally. Eventually, even those who blindly fund science for science’s sake won’t be able to afford funding scientists and institutions which are almost always wrong.

I think the researchers in the fields we’re discussing her may have “picked themselves up and carried on regardless” for just about the last time, and I look forward to the shedding of a little methodological and literal “dead weight” in the community.

And also, you might want to try a little harder not to sound like an ideological hack yourself, with your “right-wing” drumbeat. On the other hand, I can see how you’d want to move the discussion away from facts and history and more toward politics. Good luck with that, as I said above, carrying on regardless may be going out of fashion.

Merovign on March 5, 2010 at 11:26 PM

Good luck with that, as I said above, carrying on regardless may be going out of fashion.

If you don’t want to admit that it’s the right that first accused scientists of political motives, good luck with that.

bayam on March 5, 2010 at 11:36 PM

If you don’t want to admit that it’s the right that first accused scientists of political motives, good luck with that.

bayam on March 5, 2010 at 11:36 PM

So you’re saying that scientists don’t have political motives? Good luck with that.

Merovign on March 5, 2010 at 11:42 PM

Believe it or not, the scientists at Stanford, MIT, Michigan, Notre Dame and every major research university in the US have reached the same conclusion on global warming science.

bayam on March 5, 2010 at 9:11 PM

You’re either an idiot, a liar, or both.

Richard Lindzen.

Narutoboy on March 6, 2010 at 12:04 AM

I think many of these alarmists, masquerading as “scientists” are nothing more than crazy people that have gone down a mental rabbit hole of thought that leads them to terrifying, yet unprovable, conclusions.

These conclusions are the types of things that science fiction writers conjure up to sell books and movie tickets. Except these “scientists” really believe these plots will happen.

They become obsessed with this science fictitious vision of what they believe will happen and, using their considerable abilities to rationalize through their own scientific methodologies, come up with proprietary systems to substantiate their own paranoid visions of man’s horrible demise.

By doing so they become self important, relevant in their pier group, and, if properly funded by the right interest groups, by the main stream media.

Eventually, someone evil finds a way to profit from all of this trumped up hysteria and now we have a real ball game.

Sound familiar? H1N1? Coming Ice age, nuclear fall-out shelters? Bird flu? WMD? AGW?

watson007 on March 6, 2010 at 1:52 AM

If you don’t want to admit that it’s the right that first accused scientists of political motives, good luck with that.

bayam on March 5, 2010 at 11:36 PM

Big dreams die hard, don’t they? You probably thought “peer-reviewed” science would change the world, eventually ridding it of “right wing extremists” and “religious nuts”. Golly, it’s hard to give that up–we understand. But you only sound foolish when you spout off about the “settled” science (which is based on, yes, GLOBAL misrepresentation).

I’m sorry your worldview came crumbling down on you, but I won’t be sorry when you finally come to grips with it and cease your sanctimonious lecturing.

Grace_is_sufficient on March 6, 2010 at 2:33 AM

How unbelievably arrogant.

To accuse their critics of being funded by politically motivated forces, using a partisan approach or not engaging in a ‘gentlemanly debate’ is absolutely ludicrous.

Those are the tactics of the warm mongers. Critics have always wanted the debate to be open. The warm mongers declared “it’s over, you stupid flat earthers!”

Then we find proof they fudged their data (as had been suspected and proven before). Their little club of ‘true believers only’ shut out anyone who questioned their findings and they were openly targeted by the media and ridiculed.

They are only digging themselves deeper in a hole.

I always knew it was a bunch of hooey – but having their actions confirmed and then reading this ridiculously offensive ‘hit squad’ talk gets me angry.

I spent over a decade immersed in the field of science between school and work – and this is just wrong. Scientists are just not supposed to behave like these people. This is not science and scientists need to stand up against this.

Mr Purple on March 6, 2010 at 2:57 AM

And that’s why no one takes you seriously, little beck-bot.

crr6 on March 5, 2010 at 10:44 AM

Think just for a moment about the notion of crr6 claiming to speak for all HotAir commenters on the value of another commenter. Heh.

Jaibones on March 6, 2010 at 8:13 AM

Bayam:

Let’s just have these frauds in East Anglia and the good ‘Dr’ Mann in PA publish their entire work product on the internet for the whole world to see, examine and evaluate. THAT is the underpinning of the scientific method.

They have the data, correct? Why aren’t they coming forward to prove they’ve been right all along and their data supports their conclusions? Why not? What’s the problem? And here’s one you socialists will love: “Where’s the transparency?”

alwyr on March 6, 2010 at 8:19 AM

They have the data, correct?

alwyr on March 6, 2010 at 8:19 AM

Didn’t Phil Jones say he “inadvertently” destroyed his original data? How one does that I don’t know.

darwin on March 6, 2010 at 8:32 AM

With all of the negativity focused on scientists’ concensus on AGW, you would think thay they wouldn’t want to start off with any more consensual absolutes likes for example what killed the dinosaurs.
But according to a lot of geophysical research I’ve been reading over the years, the Yucatan peninsula’s Chicxulub crater is too OLD to have caused, or helped cause, the extinction of the dinosaurs.
Yet another problem with this ‘consensual’ view of scientific problems.
I am so sick of the grandstanding that scientists do just to get a headline.
The grant system needs to either be totally eliminated or totally revamped bcs this is getting rediculous.
I have know for quite some time that the Chicxulub crater was probably to old.
They really need to get this $hit straight.

Badger40 on March 6, 2010 at 9:08 AM

With all of the negativity focused on scientists’ concensus on AGW, you would think thay they wouldn’t want to start off with any more consensual absolutes likes for example what killed the dinosaurs.

Badger40 on March 6, 2010 at 9:08 AM

Maybe it wasn’t an asteroid. Maybe Marxism is a lot older than we think it is.

Who’s to say there wasn’t a Stalinosaurus? Or a Maoadon? Or even a Hitlerarchaeopteryx that killed off the dinosaurs through ever increasing dinosaur social programs and big dinosaur government.

Imagine the T. Rex, after millions of years on welfare they simply lost the ability to provide for themselves. They probably became so reliant on the mammals to work and provide them food that any interuption in handouts wiped them out.

Poor guys, Dino-Marxism … who knew?

darwin on March 6, 2010 at 9:32 AM

If Sir Scamalot, in the White House, says it’s AGW, It’s AGW!

That should be America’s Allah, Barrack Hussein Obama, not Sir Scamalot.

Cybergeezer on March 6, 2010 at 9:36 AM

UV is also pretty good at breaking down methane.

MarkTheGreat on March 5, 2010 at 12:14 PM

Indeed. That’s why methane is a greenhouse gas in the first place. In a rarefied atmosphere, the methane is just as apt to recombine after re-radiating than to go on to form higher complexity petrocarbons, with even greater forcing values.

unclesmrgol on March 6, 2010 at 12:50 PM

Only High speed rail can save the Planet!!!!

daesleeper on March 5, 2010 at 7:38 PM

I’m convinced!

daesleeper on March 6, 2010 at 2:57 PM

While Ehrlich’s predictions of Malthusian catastrophes have yet to come true, they might merely be behind schedule. Just because a runaway freight train is running late, or didn’t derail where first predicted, doesn’t mean the railroad can stop trying to deal with it.

Furthermore, there are lots of incremental negative impacts to population growth, such as when time wasted commuting doubles because of ever-increasing traffic congestion. More population does mean more land being farmed, but at the expense of forests and wildlife. Plus arable land supply IS finite. Finally, crowded, densely populated societies are rather incompatible with libertarian ideals. A USA with a half-billion population will need a lot more social controls than we have now.

kd6rxl on March 6, 2010 at 3:46 PM

kd,

I like your comments. I know that many people find it difficult to imagine that man(kind) can alter the planet’s biosphere significantly. The population of the planet has doubled in the last thirty years, and with that doubling has come a surge in transportation and electrical power usage. Whereas, when I was a child, few people had air conditioning, now nearly everyone around here does.

With roughly a billion people in the industrialized world and billions more in the rapidly-developing world (i.e., India, China), the polluting effluent of society is rapidly rising. There will be, of necessity, great changes in our lifestyles to accommodate each others’ needs to avoid being buried or smothered in waste. Global climate change will be the biggest challenge humans have ever encountered, if the preponderance of the scientific community is correct concerning this threat. Six billion people spewing carbon into the atmosphere is now, and is going to have consequences.

In this country we enjoy “liberty”, and value its fruits. However, we need to realize that “liberty” is not the doing of whatever one wants to do and damn the consequences. It is enjoying the maximum freedom without doing harm to others. Global climate change is a clear and present danger to a high level of confidence, and, like it or not, some of our freedom to burn fossil will nearly certainly have to be curtailed.

oakland on March 6, 2010 at 7:07 PM

Wow. I almost missed this, the latest news in the great unraveling of AGW. Thanks, Ed!

Placing ads won’t prove AGW theory.

Right you are, but they’re not about proving it. They’re about selling it and bullying those who won’t buy it into paying tribute to it.

It’s up to us to make a mockery of them, until massive litigation puts an end to it.

petefrt on March 6, 2010 at 7:37 PM

Only High speed rail can save the Planet!!!!

daesleeper on March 5, 2010 at 7:38 PM

No, saving the planet will also require Obamacare.

petefrt on March 6, 2010 at 7:41 PM

kd6rxl on March 6, 2010 at 3:46 PM

oakland on March 6, 2010 at 7:07 PM

You sound thoughtful and bona fide. More of that is welcome.

But let’s start at the beginning. Where’s the proof of global warming and where’s the proof that CO2 plays a lead role in ‘global warming’? That so-called ‘settled science’ is precisely what’s unraveling, now isn’t it?

petefrt on March 6, 2010 at 7:53 PM

Thanks, petefrt for the pleasant posting. It’s a welcome departure from much of the hostility that I encounter regularly on this site.

I don’t believe that a scientist would say that there is “proof” for human-induced global climate change. Speaking as one who has scientific training, we never used the term “proof” as there are no conceivable hypotheses or theories that are forever unchallengeable. Scientists establish levels of confidence, based on statistical analysis, that a particular effect is the result of a particular cause. So, the science is never settled (despite the assertions of Mr. Gore).

As for carbon dioxide, I understand that it is easily demonstrable, under laboratory conditions, that this gas delays the transfer of heat out of the earth’s atmosphere. Carbon dioxide, in particular, is known to be the reason the earth is not a ball of ice. The presence of approximately 280 ppm of carbon dioxide allowed for life to exist as we know it, as the earth’s surface is considerably warmer as a result of this relatively small amount of CO2. When several hundred billion tonnes of additional CO2 are added as a result (mainly) of human activities, it is understandable to me that the average temperature of the earth should rise. I know of no peer-reviewed literature that concludes that additional carbon dioxide (over and above the former 280 ppm) has no effect on the surface and ocean temperature averages.

Of course, I am not a climate scientist. If you have any scientific information that is at odds with what I have written here, I would welcome the references.

As far as the “unraveling” you mention, I don’t think that scientists in general consider the science of global climate change to be falling apart. Quite the contrary, I believe that, if you research scientific materials on the subject, the evidence supporting AGW is as strong as ever.

oakland on March 6, 2010 at 8:35 PM

oakland on March 6, 2010 at 8:35 PM

Keep on postin’, oakland. We need more like you. Trouble is, the opposing views we get here are mostly just mindless talking points from trolls.

But where is the evidence of long-term global warming, now that we see the hockey stick was contrived, MWP was suppressed, and the temperature monitoring points were juggled… and to top it off, they destroyed the raw data behind all of that?

Science is not consensus, though the consensus they once claimed, seems no longer there. Science is more than a new theory. Science is a theories that can be replicated, demonstrated true over and over again. In my view, AGW is far from that now.

petefrt on March 6, 2010 at 8:53 PM

There seems to be a variety of opinions on the matters of the MWP and the “hockey stick”. I have read that some data (perhaps a very small amount) has gone missing (destroyed). And, some scientists have behaved badly (and continue to).

However, from what I have read, these issues have been addressed and scientists continue to acknowledge uncertainties. The recent “scandals” don’t seem to amount to much when one considers the bulk of the data collected and analysis performed so far. Of course, scientists are human and are capable of all manner of error (intended or not). I personally choose to regard most of them as competent and diligent to conduct the best science possible.

In my opinion, the work done so far regarding AGW compels one to consider the risk of continuing with business as usual. When the scientific consensus asserts with 90% confidence that mankind is adversely affecting the biosphere with its CO2 emissions, and with all of the possible consequences of this, I take notice. Also, when one considers the delay factor of warming, coupled with the irreversible nature of AGW (assuming a lack our ability to engineer a fix) prudence dictates mitigating actions.

With that said, why not continue to support scientists’ efforts at modeling and collecting data rather than dismissing them as hacks as so many (on this site) continue to do? What would you do, as a citizen who has influence over policy?

oakland on March 6, 2010 at 9:20 PM

With that said, why not continue to support scientists’ efforts at modeling and collecting data rather than dismissing them as hacks as so many (on this site) continue to do? What would you do, as a citizen who has influence over policy?

oakland on March 6, 2010 at 9:20 PM

oakland, you either don’t get it … or don’t want to get it. AGW is a planned event. The data that supports it has been made up, and the data that doesn’t support it destroyed or ignored.

There is nothing to this, and never has been. AGW was born the instant global cooling looked like it wouldn’t last.

The supposed effects of AGW are worldwide, supposedly affecting every country … and as such requires large sums of money be invested (taken from their citizens) to control something that doesn’t exist.

If the claims of the AGW crowd are to be believed, then why was one of the major tenets of the Copenhagen treaty redistribution of wealth from prosperous nations to third world countries?

Mother Nature herself proved their theory faulty by cooling temperatures when all the models said the earth would warm.

My last point: Everything, and I mean everything … from dire predictions to costly “fixes” is based solely on computer modeling … and all the models have failed. Billions of dollars have been spent, taxpayer dollars, to defraud the world.

darwin on March 6, 2010 at 9:50 PM

Global climate change is a clear and present danger to a high level of confidence, and, like it or not, some of our freedom to burn fossil will nearly certainly have to be curtailed.

oakland on March 6, 2010 at 7:07 PM

For the last time … show us your damn evidence. If it’s such a clear and present danger than it should be so obvious everyone can see it.

Where the hell is it oakland?

Just tell me, in your own words what the evidence is.

darwin on March 6, 2010 at 9:53 PM

Carbon dioxide, in particular, is known to be the reason the earth is not a ball of ice.

oakland on March 6, 2010 at 8:35 PM

Try water vapor. Water vapor is the reason the earth isn’t a solid block of ice. Quit reading fanatical AGW material.

darwin on March 6, 2010 at 9:58 PM

oakland, you either don’t get it … or don’t want to get it. AGW is a planned event. The data that supports it has been made up, and the data that doesn’t support it destroyed or ignored.

Though I have a different opinion from yours, I’ll respect your perspective on the matter. My experiences and studies have led me to accept the seriousness of the AGW issue. If, in your opinion, I don’t “get it”, then that’s fine; I am not going to change your mind, and I will not attempt to.

oakland on March 6, 2010 at 9:59 PM

For the last time … show us your damn evidence. If it’s such a clear and present danger than it should be so obvious everyone can see it.

Where the hell is it oakland?

I suggest you try online or your local university library. If you want scientific material, I’m sure you will find it.

oakland on March 6, 2010 at 10:01 PM

However, from what I have read, these issues have been addressed and scientists continue to acknowledge uncertainties.

Acknowledging uncertainties is a good first step toward reopening the debate. When they tell us the debate is over and the science is settled, when it’s clear that it’s not, how should we respond other than by counter attack? Tell me.

The recent “scandals” don’t seem to amount to much when one considers the bulk of the data collected and analysis performed so far.

Don’t amount to much? Respectfully, seems to me the scandals go to the very core of the “science” itself. Ref for starters, e.g., http://hotair.com/archives/2010/02/27/physicists-memo-to-parliament-blasts-agw-science/

Where is the proof, the credible evidence that global warming is anything more than a natural cycle, especially in light of MWP?

Where is the proof, where is the decisive evidence that C02 plays a leading role? A relatively small part, maybe. But not a leading role. How about volcanoes, water vapor, sun storms? Especially sun storms.

With that said, why not continue to support scientists’ efforts at modeling and collecting data rather than dismissing them as hacks as so many (on this site) continue to do? What would you do, as a citizen who has influence over policy?

I would support continued research on a a scale level with any other climate hypothesis, provided it’s not results oriented. I would not support government funded research to document/prove any foregone results. I would continue to tag the Gores and other alarmists as hacks and the con artists that they are.

As a citizen who has influence over policy, I would not advise wrecking our economy over measures to combat global warming, when the warming itself is in scientific dispute, when the impact of proposed measures to mitigate this speculative warming is admittedly minuscule, and when and the hardship of such measures on our economy is so severe.

Gotta run now. Thanks. Though we disagree, I count you as one of the good guys.

petefrt on March 6, 2010 at 10:09 PM

I suggest you try online or your local university library. If you want scientific material, I’m sure you will find it.

oakland on March 6, 2010 at 10:01 PM

No … if it’s such a clear and present danger, you should be able to articulate it for me.

I want you to explain this imminent danger, in your own words. If you can’t that means you believe in something you can’t even explain.

darwin on March 6, 2010 at 10:13 PM

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