DeMint demands a block to Obama land-grab attempt
posted at 2:55 pm on March 5, 2010 by Ed Morrissey
Jim DeMint took to the Senate floor and the pages of the Washington Times earlier this week to expose a plan by the White House to seize over 10 million acres of land in nine Western states. Using an obscure clause in the Antiquities Act of 1906, the Department of the Interior under Ken Salazar would designate the land as “monuments” in order to block the use of the resources in those states. DeMint correctly asserts that this is not only a perversion of the intent of the Antiquities Act, but also a huge power grab by the federal government at the expense of the states:
Americans should be wary of any plans a president has to seize land from the states without their consent. Any new plans to take away states’ freedom to use land as they see fit must be stopped.
That’s why I sponsored an amendment to block Mr. Obama from declaring any of the 14 lands listed in the memo as “monuments.” Unfortunately, the Senate, led by Democrats, rejected it on Thursday evening by a vote of 58-38.
It was particularly disappointing that the Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, of Nevada, voted against the amendment. The government owns more than 80 percent of the land in Nevada and the unemployment rate there is 12.8 percent. Surely it would help job prospects if more land were open for business.
This is a nationwide problem. The government currently owns 650 million acres, or 29 percent of the nation’s total land.
Federal bureaucrats shouldn’t be wasting time thinking up ways to acquire more, especially in the middle of a recession. Taking the nation’s resources offline will stifle job creation and dry up tax revenues.
If anything, the government should be selling land off, not locking more up. By voting against my amendment, the Democrats tacitly endorsed Mr. Obama’s secret plan to close off millions more acres to commerce.
It’s not the first time an administration has used this act to seize land from states. Jimmy Carter grabbed 50 million acres from Alaska over their loud objections, and Bill Clinton almost 6 million in 22 separate actions. These executive actions bypassed Congress altogether and made a mockery of state sovereignty. After all, if a state can’t keep the federal government from unilaterally declaring that their land no longer belongs to them, then states have no real power at all — and neither do the people, represented by Congress.
DeMint’s amendment got defeated on a party-line 58-38 vote.









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Is that just Federally held land or does that include State Parks, County, City owned land?
journeyintothewhirlwind on March 5, 2010 at 3:01 PM
The antiquities act can’t turn state land into a national monument – only federally owned land. So the feds aren’t stealing land from the states, they are changing the status of federally-owned land. However, such changes do affect local communities who depend on access to federal lands for their livelihoods. What monument or wilderness status does is restrict or prohibit things like livestock grazing, lumber harvesting and mineral extraction from those areas.
NPP on March 5, 2010 at 3:02 PM
This is what Congress gets for writing vague legislation that basically cedes their power to the executive branch. I feel like it ought to be unconstitutional – plainly it is against the intent of the Constitution – but I’m not the expert to make that argument.
David Shane on March 5, 2010 at 3:02 PM
I hope he reintroduces this amendment next year after the GOP gets the house and senate back.
It might be too late by then, though.
UltimateBob on March 5, 2010 at 3:02 PM
George W. Bush had the biggest ever “monument” grab.
But it was the ocean way off the coast of Hawaii.
Abby Adams on March 5, 2010 at 3:03 PM
Barry is Hedley Lamaar.
Daveyardbird on March 5, 2010 at 3:03 PM
How in the hell do we stop this nonsense, short of elections that may , or may not happen? I suspect they will happen, but will be rigged. BIG time.
capejasmine on March 5, 2010 at 3:03 PM
States’ rights…it’ll be a while before I quit laughing. Unless there is another civil war the issue of states’ rights is a settled issue…there are none.
jwp1964 on March 5, 2010 at 3:04 PM
So what does Obama plan to do with the land? Nothing? What kind of energy production are we talking about? Oil? Coal? If he’s gonna screw over the states(and their residents), the least he could do is explain why.
Doughboy on March 5, 2010 at 3:04 PM
oil…coal…metals mining? Prevent building residential, commercial properties? How does a nation grow its economy if the federal government prevents the very activities that grow the economy?
Skandia Recluse on March 5, 2010 at 3:04 PM
Can’t the states take this to court? At least one of them in question? Maybe Justice Kennedy can make up for his Kelo vote?
Sometimes something is so obviously wrong and against what our Fathers intended, it is nothing but pure arrogance and absolutism to try and rationalize it.
Daemonocracy on March 5, 2010 at 3:05 PM
Every state which has this happen to should declare an emergency, and seize all Federal property and resources until the Federal Government restores the land. These sorts of actions by an over-reaching Federal Authority make mockery of our laws and Constitution. No such Federal claims should be permitted without the express permission of the citizens of the affected state.
AW1 Tim on March 5, 2010 at 3:05 PM
What’s the matter? You don’t trust ACORN’s voter registration efforts? They’re perfectly honest, I assure you.
*** BIG eyeroll ***
UltimateBob on March 5, 2010 at 3:05 PM
Here we go again. This is always done under the guise of “we care so much for the environment”. Really, all it does is block the locals from the land they’ve always enjoyed so that liberal, elitist city-slickers can drop by every 10 years or so in helicopters for a picnic. Disgusting.
yubley on March 5, 2010 at 3:05 PM
“Land…land…land…see ‘snatch’”. :-)
Doughboy on March 5, 2010 at 3:05 PM
Papahānaumokuākea Marine National Monument (Wikipedia)
Abby Adams on March 5, 2010 at 3:05 PM
This sounds like another campaign issue conservatives can run on to me.
orlandocajun on March 5, 2010 at 3:06 PM
Even dictatorships have elections. Saddam Hussein won his last election by 100%! Which means that Barak Hussein will win his next election by 110%.
highhopes on March 5, 2010 at 3:06 PM
Yup! All done, ala Chavez! Just wait for it. Peoples homes will be next. Afterall. We’ve had it good for to long. Time to let those dependent on Big Brother live the high life.
capejasmine on March 5, 2010 at 3:06 PM
Well then they can just shoot me. If all hope is lost, and we’re forced to live like this, I’d rather not live. So if we can’t fight this, what is the freakin point anymore? I’ll admit, I’m having one of those pessimistic days, but this kind of news tends to put a damper on my optimism.
capejasmine on March 5, 2010 at 3:09 PM
Obama is keeping his promise to redistribute wealth:
1. Destroyed the businesses of hundreds of Chrysler dealerships (mostly Republican).
2. Is attempting to destroy the medical industry (again mostly Republican) but prohibits tort reform (Lawyers = Democrat).
3. Is attempting to deprive rural (Republican) Americans of the means of earning a living.
4. Gave UAW a controlling interest in the Automakers (Democrats) at the expense of preferred investors (Republican).
5. Spending Billions on pet liberal groups and calling it stimulus.
And the beat goes on…
The Rock on March 5, 2010 at 3:09 PM
I feel sure that this bho will get his little gold pen out some night around one or two and do his eo to grab the land in question. Some poor little grasshopper or snail might need a million acres so it won’t feel all bound up!
L
letget on March 5, 2010 at 3:09 PM
Don’t you remember what the Nature Conservancy did? They sold prime real estate (given to them in trust) at rock bottom prices to A-list entertainers and politicans who proceeded to build a nice little enclave far from the proletariat.
I can easily see this going the same way where portions of the land grab are suddenly de-memorialized and sold to political allies for their second homes with pristine views that will never be touched by developers.
highhopes on March 5, 2010 at 3:09 PM
Ever hear of Suzanne Kelo?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelo_v._City_of_New_London
mwdiver on March 5, 2010 at 3:10 PM
The way this administration seeks to “rule” this nation, it is only a matter of time before they step squarely upon a “high crimes and misdemeanors” land mine.
I grew up watching the Ervin Committee on TV in Social Studies class.
Will my children watch something similar?
turfmann on March 5, 2010 at 3:10 PM
This is why we have the second amendment.
The Rock on March 5, 2010 at 3:11 PM
States … tell Obama to shove it. Tell him if he wants your land to come and get it.
darwin on March 5, 2010 at 3:12 PM
Another attempt to fly something under the radar while attention is being focused elsewhere. Less land to be developed by states for energy,,more fed control. This bunch is destroying our country and need to be in prison when all is said and done.
retiredeagle on March 5, 2010 at 3:13 PM
We can fight it, but have we reached THAT tipping point yet…where prospect of living as a slave to the government overrides our comfortable modern life, fear of mortality and/or prison.
jwp1964 on March 5, 2010 at 3:13 PM
Seems a simply solved problem to me. Governor whoever says: “You want our land, you just feel free to come and get it. Unless you can take it with you, it ain’t gonna happen.
TimothyJ on March 5, 2010 at 3:14 PM
For heavens sake…take them to court
JIMV on March 5, 2010 at 3:15 PM
What makes you think anyone in this adminstration wants it to grow?
MarkTheGreat on March 5, 2010 at 3:17 PM
The environmental marxists are in the White House making policy!
There will be many favors tucked into this legislation that will destroy state plans for dams and such. The goal of the environmental marxist is to destroy forever the economy and people of the United States.
Note: See the central valley of the state of California for a clear example of the kind of ‘restoration of the desert’ project dreamed of by the environmental marxist!
Freddy on March 5, 2010 at 3:20 PM
I heard a Congresman on the radio say this power grab would deny states from federal funding the states receive for roads, bridges, etc. and the jobs that maintain these things. A nice way for Barry to “cut spending”, huh?
Is this Obama’s way of cetralizing everyone to cities and urban centers? He’s attempting the Marxist five-year plan in half the time. When will people start calling him the Marxist that he is?
conservative pilgrim on March 5, 2010 at 3:21 PM
Ftfy.
Dark-Star on March 5, 2010 at 3:21 PM
They’re intentionally restricting oil and resource development, and slowly but surely defining population zones.
It’s too kind to continue to call these treasonous bastards democrats.
darwin on March 5, 2010 at 3:21 PM
Enter UNESCO and the Biosphere initiative.
BobMbx on March 5, 2010 at 3:22 PM
Yeah, and it was just a short while ago that the developers abandonded the project and walked away.
BobMbx on March 5, 2010 at 3:23 PM
It’s just one assault after another. Somebody has to string these together into a cohesive political argument and counter-assualt. It’s not good enough to take on these in an a la carte manner, which is sure to fail. The battles have to be joined.
rrpjr on March 5, 2010 at 3:23 PM
In Virginia, Kaine\’s last big effort was a push for people to sign over their land for conservation. Of course, if the government later decides that “conservation includes building an office park, that won’t be Kaine’s fault.Land needs to be owned by people, not governments.
So many liberals I know are fans of building restrictions and historic disticts. They don’t seem to understand that preserving old houses isn’t a government function, or that preventing development prevents progress.
If Great Britain, or the Founders, had followed current American land use policy, how many of our cities would exist at all?
hawksruleva on March 5, 2010 at 3:24 PM
The Bureau of Land Management will proceed to let all the land burn because of its insane management techniques. Does anyone have a link to the land that is being stolen?
hip shot on March 5, 2010 at 3:27 PM
Shouldn’t this all be in the past tense? Demint “demanded” a block.
Trent1289 on March 5, 2010 at 3:27 PM
South Carolina’s 2 senators have had prominent roles today on HotAir. One of them is dah man. The other not so much.
SouthernGent on March 5, 2010 at 3:27 PM
Jim DeMint regularly puts most of the rest of the GOP Caucus to shame.
james23 on March 5, 2010 at 3:27 PM
Why are any of you surprised by this…
Seven Percent Solution on March 5, 2010 at 3:29 PM
It doesn’t. Thats the whole point.
uknowmorethanme on March 5, 2010 at 3:29 PM
I heard DeMint speak about this on GB radio on Tuesday morning. He said that the states are going to have to start asserting their sovereignty or else we are cooked.
KS Sovereignty had promise, but it appears the state legislature has removed some bite from their original draft.
If we have any Kansans on here, please help.
As you may have heard, SCR 1615 was reworked by representatives in the House Judiciary Committee with the help of 4 Republicans. The amended resolution was passed out of committee.
Unfortunately this is not a victory for freedom. Representative Whitham along with other committee members amended the resolution to make it clear that Kansas citizens don’t want the Federal Government to repeal any current unconstitutional laws. This is clearly unacceptable and not in the spirit of the resolution or the 10th Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America.
If you would like to send a strong message of disapproval to the committee members who allowed the 10th Amendment Resolution to be gutted, please contact Richard Fry at fry8413@sbcglobal.net or call him at (816) 853-8718.
Richard is organizing canvassing operation in Johnson, Douglas, Leavenworth, and Shawnee counties tomorrow on Saturday, March 6th and an operation in western Kansas on Sunday, March 7th. He needs volunteers to help distribute fliers containing information on SCR 1615 and the committee members who gutted the resolution.
Please contact Richard at fry8413@sbcglobal.net or call him at (816) 853-8718 to help.
There is no time like the present to hold our representatives accountable their actions!
PrincipledPilgrim on March 5, 2010 at 3:29 PM
Senate Democrats will eat that vote in November. Guaranteed.
“When it came to stopping the president from seizing millions of acres of land, Blanche Lincoln voted the party line. She voted to allow the federal government to take land at its whim.”
amerpundit on March 5, 2010 at 3:30 PM
Good for DeMint. This has been out there for a while now but while we are all watching the Obamacare theatrics these scumbags are grabbing more power in terms of land and mineral rights. This is pure insanity and the people are just letting it happen.
ORconservative on March 5, 2010 at 3:30 PM
One’s an R and the other a D, right? /
conservative pilgrim on March 5, 2010 at 3:31 PM
PAGING BILL O’REILLY, PAGING BILL O’REILLY…
Can we call him a socialist now?
Oh, and Bill, yes he is seizing our homes… have you checked how many homes the banks own now. … Who owns the banks now?
stenwin77 on March 5, 2010 at 3:35 PM
Ok,, that’s it.
DEMINT/COBURN 2012
stenwin77 on March 5, 2010 at 3:35 PM
Reid and other Western States Senators show how weak they are as men and women individually. This land grab is nothing more than taking mining options away from claimants.
How ridiculous. The inexperienced president and his gang don’t want domestic drilling or coal mining, they truly believe solar panels will save our economy and produce jobs.
This is the idiocy the Dims gave us, an administration that wants us all riding mules.
FireBlogger on March 5, 2010 at 3:35 PM
Now you’re getting the idea. No compromise. Fight the dems at every step! We are in a battle for the very survival of the Founder’s vision. This is exactly why the Grahams and McCains must be purged! They are modern day Chamberlains who believe you can negotiate with socialists.
jwp1964 on March 5, 2010 at 3:36 PM
Here’s the list of all the land.
behiker on March 5, 2010 at 3:36 PM
I remember being annoyed at the time.
Count to 10 on March 5, 2010 at 3:36 PM
Thanks Roosevelt, you schmuck!
upinak on March 5, 2010 at 3:40 PM
How much land does the government need to own? When is enough enough?! Do we really need any more parks? I read somewhere that these is a Federal Park or State owned land within a 20 minute drive from any direction you are placed on a map. I don’t know how true that is, but I just think it is time for the government to stop buying land!
JellyToast on March 5, 2010 at 3:41 PM
No, actually that was Teddy. You know, the first socialist of our Nation…. the one with the “Idea” from his wife.
upinak on March 5, 2010 at 3:42 PM
There is something sad about learning how various presidents have mucked things up.
Count to 10 on March 5, 2010 at 3:42 PM
Old teddy would would be proud another socialist president is carrying on his traditions.I wish there was another republican with gonads big enough to stand up for what is right besides Sen. Demint. His back is surely getting tired trying to carry the load.
historian on March 5, 2010 at 3:45 PM
This whole “Republic” thing is just a sham. The only reasons that we sleepy and lazy Americans have any rights at all is that Congress or the leaders in D.C. Let us think we are still “Free”.
What do you think a Congress or DC establishment would do if we really……really were a threat to their power?
The Feds need assets / collateral for our creditors to lend us more money.
Now the Feds have direct control (under the guise of “Parks”) over what percentage of this country?
Get out of debt now boys and girls!!!! Insolvency is coming!!
PappyD61 on March 5, 2010 at 3:46 PM
Thank you. My thoughts exactly! BOR is lost in his No Spin Zone.
ziggyville on March 5, 2010 at 3:48 PM
The land that Obama wants to take possession of is rich in energy production potential, as Paul Harvey once said; now the rest of the story.
A massive oil reserve buried two miles underground has put North Dakota at the center of a revolution in the U.S. oil industry, a shift that has radically altered the fortunes of this remote area.
BDU-33 on March 5, 2010 at 3:49 PM
They don’t want it to grow. They don’t want us to mine for coal or drill for oil. Now isn’t that a crock of crap?
I’m telling you folks, bad things are going to happen.
Oink on March 5, 2010 at 3:50 PM
Makes me want to cry.
Oink on March 5, 2010 at 3:51 PM
The last time, the north won because they had all the factories, so they had the most guns.
This time most of the military is in the states most likely to exit (can’t say the S word, otherwise Allah will get mad).
Additionally, how many people in the states that are likely to stay federalist, could even load a gun without fatally injuring themselves?
MarkTheGreat on March 5, 2010 at 3:53 PM
Well, that is only HALF of the story. The real story is that it is a minerals grab, not a top surface grab as that area is very much Farming Community.
upinak on March 5, 2010 at 3:54 PM
Present tense, the demand is still ongoing.
MarkTheGreat on March 5, 2010 at 3:55 PM
Count, I agree. My State is huge.. and if they do the land grab like it looks like my “state owned land” (aka the people who own it), will be from 49% to 39%. 10% of Alaska is the size of some states. :(
upinak on March 5, 2010 at 3:56 PM
Weel how else would they be able to build all those “re-education” camps
/
Ladywolfnl on March 5, 2010 at 3:58 PM
Psst…buy more ammo.
SirGawain on March 5, 2010 at 4:04 PM
Isn’t this the same thang the Clinton did up Utah-way ??
Y’know… where the world’s largest supply of clean-burning coal is buried ? ARRGGGHH
pambi on March 5, 2010 at 4:04 PM
…and high capacity magazines.
jwp1964 on March 5, 2010 at 4:06 PM
BOR is an idiot. These dangerous people with Obama at the helm are socialists.
ORconservative on March 5, 2010 at 4:07 PM
The other day, I was driving down the street, and saw a sign that said….For Sale: Government owned home! I thought to myself….whoever buys it, is making a deal with the devil here. I know that there are government homes, but that sign, one which I’ve never seen before, kind of left me with a pit in my stomach.
capejasmine on March 5, 2010 at 4:12 PM
Yeah… I found that out, and I’m a proud Yankee… Jeeze…
MeatHeadinCA on March 5, 2010 at 4:13 PM
Acadia • American Samoa • Arches • Badlands • Big Bend • Biscayne • Black Canyon of the Gunnison • Bryce Canyon • Canyonlands • Capitol Reef • Carlsbad Caverns • Channel Islands • Congaree • Crater Lake • Cuyahoga Valley • Death Valley • Denali • Dry Tortugas • Everglades • Gates of the Arctic • Glacier • Glacier Bay • Grand Canyon • Grand Teton • Great Basin • Great Sand Dunes • Great Smoky Mountains • Guadalupe Mountains • Hawaii Volcanoes • Hot Springs • Isle Royale • Joshua Tree • Katmai • Kenai Fjords • Kings Canyon • Kobuk Valley • Lake Clark • Lassen Volcanic • Mammoth Cave • Mesa Verde • Mount Rainier • North Cascades • Olympic • Petrified Forest • Redwood • Rocky Mountain • Saguaro • Sequoia • Shenandoah • Theodore Roosevelt • Virgin Islands • Voyageurs • Wind Cave • Wrangell-St. Elias • Yellowstone • Yosemite • Zion
Bill Blizzard on March 5, 2010 at 4:15 PM
Art. I Sec. 8:
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings.
Nothing about monuments or parks. Why doesn’t Demint make a constitutional case out of it?
Akzed on March 5, 2010 at 4:18 PM
NO! We live in a country where we can shoot THEM!!
Dominion on March 5, 2010 at 4:21 PM
“Well then they can just shoot me. If all hope is lost, and we’re forced to live like this, I’d rather not live. So if we can’t fight this, what is the freakin point anymore? I’ll admit, I’m having one of those pessimistic days, but this kind of news tends to put a damper on my optimism. capejasmine on March 5, 2010 at 3:09 PM”
Capejasmine: That’s just how they want us to feel. You think there is a leftist alive who doesn’t want to see us dead. Resist pessimism! Resist it now! Resist it with all your heart, mind and soul! DO NOT GIVE UP! Remember, we are the majority. We will win in 2010!
Mae on March 5, 2010 at 4:22 PM
I’m thinking that the “hard pivot” to jobs meant that he was going to redouble his efforts to destroy more.
Hey Obama, stop stealing our liberties, land, and pursuit of happiness!
search4truth on March 5, 2010 at 4:23 PM
yeah wait, there will be more.
upinak on March 5, 2010 at 4:25 PM
Your list is of the United States National PARKS, they can only be created by an act of congress. However, this post is about Obama’s desire to take this land for the creation of a National MONUMENTS by an executive order under the Antiquities Act.
I’m torn on this, because I’m a huge fan of the national parks and momuments for hiking, camping, etc. In fact, I’ve been to 38 of the parks on your list. What bothers me is the manner in which Obama is grabbing. Other than his orchestrated photo op in Yellowstone this past summer, I seriously doubt he could care less about the great outdoors. He’s using this as a way to further ruin the opportunity for the United States to explore for our own natural resources.
behiker on March 5, 2010 at 4:34 PM
Looks like you were highlighting the National Parks in Alaska… but, Glacier is in Montana.
behiker on March 5, 2010 at 4:37 PM
Yeah I realized that after I did it. Two glaciers, same sentence.
But he forgot ANWR and soon to come all NPR’s in the U.S.
upinak on March 5, 2010 at 4:43 PM
Can’t trust the states either though—any further that one can trust the Feds. I know of state land grabs, ostensibly to protect this or that, where the stolen land was eventually sold to developers anyway but the state walked off with the profits and the original landowners got squat. I think it’s safe to say that one should never trust any government too far. Look at that mess in CT and now the developer has bowed out leaving essentially a waste land.
jeanie on March 5, 2010 at 4:57 PM
There are times when it is good for the government to step in and “take” land. At one time Yosemite Valley was discussed as as a candidate for damming for water use in Los Angeles.
Hetch Hetchy was dammed and a national treasure was buried.
This massive grab by The One and his gang is to limit mining and drilling. As I said above these idealist Chicago politicians don’t believe in fossil fuels though I am cynical enough to entertain this is in some form to appease the Muslim oil countries.
(We won’t drill, you donate to our 2012 campaign)
Don’t know but they can’t be so dumb to think we will all be driving around in solar powered cars any time soon.
FireBlogger on March 5, 2010 at 4:59 PM
To bad the individual states don’t have the balls to stand up, surround the land with their state NG troops and tell the government: “COME AND TAKE IT!”
GarandFan on March 5, 2010 at 5:01 PM
If you find oil in your backyard, you might find yourself living next to a “precious monument” too.
RBMN on March 5, 2010 at 5:13 PM
Nah…they’ve the “Jetsons” in mind. We’ll all just buzz around in our flying bubbles that make that really cool “bibibibibibibibibibi” sound.
Or, we’ll all be frolicking in the woods with the Unicorns. I don’t know.
BobMbx on March 5, 2010 at 5:20 PM
The second portion is certainly true. The first, as you show from later examples, may be technically a perversion but it’s extremely common, going right back to Teddy Roosevelt to invented the legislation.
The whole idea was to give the Federal government a legal – though wholly unwarranted – power to seize land for “the good of the nation.”
In short, business as usual for the past 100 years.
JDPerren on March 5, 2010 at 5:35 PM
I remember that. He grabbed land on which a valuable & rare kind of very clean-burning coal was, putting it off limits for mining.
jgapinoy on March 5, 2010 at 5:39 PM
It just so happened to be the largest low-sulphur coal know and the other closest deposit was in Indonesia and under the control of the Riahdy family, who just so happened to be a huge donor to BJ.
thomasaur on March 5, 2010 at 5:44 PM
It’s not obscure if every Democratic President in the past 40 years has used it. It is just partisan and a foolish attempt to steal resources from the people.
LifeTrek on March 5, 2010 at 6:04 PM
I don’t believe the GOP has the guts, gumption, balls, or intelligence to run such an ad. And if they did, they would send 20 copies of the ad to every Republican whose vote they already had and who was too wimpy to protest the SPAM and waste.
AnotherOpinion on March 5, 2010 at 6:12 PM
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