Are Democrats choosing to run off a cliff with ObamaCare?

posted at 9:55 am on February 27, 2010 by Ed Morrissey

Republicans have reacted with understandable glee to the Democratic insistence on extending the debate on ObamaCare.  After all, we are coming up on eight months since the Democrats first introduced this bill and attempted to rush it through Congress.  In that time, their polling has plunged, grassroots reaction has exploded, and a popular new President has seen his standing rapidly fall with voters.  The midterms look like a disaster already, and a last-ditch effort by Democrats to use parliamentary tricks to pass a broadly unpopular bill will only make that worse.

Are Democrats acting irrationally, refusing to see the cliff in front of them?  Andy McCarthy says no — and that Republicans need to understand that:

I hear Republicans getting giddy over the fact that “reconciliation,” if it comes to that, is a huge political loser. That’s the wrong way to look at it. The Democratic leadership has already internalized the inevitablility of taking its political lumps. That makes reconciliation truly scary. Since the Dems know they will have to ram this monstrosity through, they figure it might as well be as monstrous as they can get wavering Democrats to go along with. Clipping the leadership’s statist ambitions in order to peel off a few Republicans is not going to work. I’m glad Republicans have held firm, but let’s not be under any illusions about what that means. In the Democrat leadership, we are not dealing with conventional politicians for whom the goal of being reelected is paramount and will rein in their radicalism. They want socialized medicine and all it entails about government control even more than they want to win elections. After all, if the party of government transforms the relationship between the citizen and the state, its power over our lives will be vast even in those cycles when it is not in the majority. This is about power, and there is more to power than winning elections, especially if you’ve calculated that your opposition does not have the gumption to dismantle your ballooning welfare state.

Consequently, the next six weeks, like the next ten months, are going to be worse than we think. We’re wired to think that everyone plays by the ususal rules of politics — i.e., if the tide starts to change, the side against whom it has turned modifies its positions in order to stay viable in the next election. But what will happen here will be the opposite. You have a party with the numbers to do anything it puts its mind to, led by movement Leftitsts who see their window of opportunity is closing. We seem to expect them to moderate because that’s what everybody in their position does. But they won’t. They will put their heads down and go for as much transformation as they can get, figuring that once they get it, it will never be rolled back. The only question is whether there are enough Democrats who are conventional politicians and who care about being reelected, such that they will deny the leadership the numbers it needs. But I don’t think we should take much heart in this possibility. Those Democrats may well come to think they are going to lose anyway — that’s why so many of them are abandoning ship now. If that’s the case, their incentive will be to vote with the leadership.

Andy has a point.  The American political system has remained stable mainly because its political parties have remained rational over our history.  That rationality has been mainly based on the accepted principle that there isn’t more to power in our system than winning elections, which can create short-sighted leadership at times, but also discourages sweeping  changes to the country by a party on a political suicide mission.  A party with a leadership of zealots, though, could choose to use a two-year session of Congress to fundamentally remake America if it accepted a humiliating loss of power as the necessary trade-off.

However, that would require all of the politicians of that party to follow suit, and that’s where the Democratic leadership has a big problem.  They didn’t gain the majority by elected over 300 cardboard cutouts of Nancy Pelosi as Representatives and Senators.  While Andy is spot-on about Pelosi and her clique being descendants of the New Left radicals of the 1960s (as is Barack Obama), that’s not true for a large portion of their caucus, especially those representing red districts and red states.  Not only is political suicide much more likely for them than it is for Pelosi, Anthony Weiner, Jarrold Nadler, et al, they’re temperamentally different from the leadership clique as well.

That doesn’t mean that they can’t get bulldozed into compliance, but it does make it a more difficult proposition for Pelosi to hold her caucus together.  We’re already seeing signs of it splintering, and as this effort gets closer to the midterm elections, that will increase proportionately.  Blue Dogs are already unhappy with the direction of ObamaCare — and so are progressives, but for diametrically opposed reasons.  The summit may have helped to pull recalcitrant moderates in line, but Democrats got punked at the televised spectacle and have no fig leaf to wear to support a radical mechanism in pushing through a radical bill.

Andy may be right that Democratic leadership has made the decision that political oblivion is an acceptable cost for a one-time remaking of America that Republicans will find difficult to reverse in the next session.  However, I suspect that this strategy doesn’t account for the fact that the people who will actually have to end their careers may not appreciate getting forced into marching off a cliff while the leadership stays safely in their rear-echelon bastions of San Francisco and New York City.

Update: Nick Jacob reminds me on Twitter of what my friend (and new Salem colleague) Dennis Prager told Republicans earlier this month:

Most people on the Left are True Believers. This is critical to understand. They are willing to lose Congress; Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid are prepared to lose both houses to get this through. Why? Because losing an election cycle means nothing compared to taking over more of the American economy.

I can give you an example from our side. There are many folks on our side who, if they could pass an amendment against abortion, would happily sacrifice both houses for a period of time. Understand that just as strongly as some are pro-life or religiously Christian or Jewish, that is how strongly many leftists believe in leftism. Leftism is a substitute religion. For the Left, the “health care” bill transcends politics. You are fighting people who will go down with the ship in order to transform this country to a leftist one. And an ever-expanding state is the Left’s central credo.

Prager is certainly correct about all of the points here, but the question will be whether most of their caucuses are willing to follow them — or more accurately, precede them — into political oblivion.


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Who are those ‘moderate’ Democrats? They ALL voted for this thing in the Senate.

lizzie beth on February 27, 2010 at 10:47 AM

Right now there are only a handful of moderate Democrats. Most are either leftwing radicals or are more centrist but too timid to stand up to party leadership.

What I meant was that once the Dems are run out of office, they’ll need to be very careful in the future how they recruit candidates. What the Tea Party has done for the GOP by bring them back to their conservative roots, the more moderate wing of the Democrat Party will have to do for their side.

The problem is that could take a long time. The Democrats sold their souls to the MoveOn.org, Daily Kos, George Soros, SEIU, and leftwing media types in order to destroy Bush and regain power. Removing those people from positions of influence within the party won’t be easy.

Doughboy on February 27, 2010 at 10:58 AM

The Red State Dems will not go along.It will not pass.

CWforFreedom on February 27, 2010 at 11:00 AM

If these analyses are true, why isn’t Obamacare already passed and signed?

Missy on February 27, 2010 at 11:00 AM

This administration is performing their version of American Jihad just to see what they can ultimately get away with.
THIS IS A TEST!

Cybergeezer on February 27, 2010 at 11:02 AM

No question that they will ram it through. Most if not all of the DEM leadership is close to retirement anyway. They don’t care about the younger members election prospects. The road to universal health system for all has been the big wet dream for liberals for decades and they aren’t going let this chance slip by. They know that single payer will follow this in a few years. Elections mean things. We should have forced this fight in 2007/2008 campaign but the Republicans and McCain weren’t up for the fight then.

Hummer53 on February 27, 2010 at 11:02 AM

The American political system has remained stable mainly because its political parties have remained rational over our history. That rationality has been mainly based on the accepted principle that there isn’t more to power in our system than winning elections,

Incorrect, Ed. This isn’t a matter of rationality. The left has never been rational. It has not been “rationality” that has kept our system stable. It has been “NATURAL BORN CITIZENS” in the White House that has done it. People who, no matter what they thought about the US (and the dems have long hated our nation and the way it was structured), still had grudging subconscious respect for our system and our traditions. This is why the Founders put the ‘natural born citizen’ requirement in the Constitution and now everyone is seeing, in the flesh, the effects of throwing that restriction aside and allowing someone into the Oval Office who, not only has no respect for America and Americans, but someone who holds us and our institutions in absolute contempt.

THIS IS THE DIFFERENCE.

Most Americans, no matter how many problems they had with AMerica, were still unconsciously constrained by our mores and taboos. But, we now have The Precedent, who has run totally roughshod over our processes, showing his contempt for everything that built and sustained this nation. Even Shrillary would have thrown away this health scare after it was crushed once or twice – as we all saw in 1993. But, The Precedent was always intending to break our system and he cared not one whit for what anyone thought about that. He dragged the useful idiots on the Hill along with him for enough other suicidal votes and had them pal around with him as he committed unspeakable offenses against our nation – as with that unbelievable World Traitor Tour (which would have gotten any true American impeached and thrown out) and the idiotic bills they did manage to shove through – SIGHT UNSEEN for the Porkulus, which was, once again, unprecedented in our legislative history.

I have been warning about this attitude of The Precedent’s, and what it would do, over and over and pointed this out as we all debated the important ‘natural born citizen’ clause, but too many refused to see what was right in front of their faces.

which can create short-sighted leadership at times, but also discourages sweeping changes to the country by a party on a political suicide mission. A party with a leadership of zealots, though, could choose to use a two-year session of Congress to fundamentally remake America if it accepted a humiliating loss of power as the necessary trade-off.

The Dems are now on a suicide mission, because they were roped into it, bit by bit. The Dem junta thought that they were abetting The Precedent in the greatest rape and robbery of America, ever … but they have now come to realize that they were abetting a suicide bomber. Well, it’s too late for them to pull back, now. They went past the point of no return long ago and are now committed to helping The Precedent get into the center of the mall and setting off his suicide belt.

This was all very easily predictable and America has no one to blame but ourselves for allowing this to happen. We let the avenging angel of the third world in, even though he was exactly the sort of person the Founders sought to save this nation from in their declaration that only those people born American, and never anything but American, are eligible.

And, even if this nation survives The Precedent’s tenure (which I highly doubt) the taboos that have been broken by him will never be mended. He has done permanent damage to our system, as those old taboos that used to keep the federal government in line, are now part of history. We now have a feral government that will not be domesticated again.

The “NATURAL BORN CITIZEN” clause was meant to stop exactly this dangerous situation. All who railed against even having the courts hear the cases (and called us “birthers” to try and shut us up) should sit quietly and contemplate what their fears have brought us. Only the Indonesian Imbecile held us and our institutions in such contempt that he would have no compunction tearing our system to absolute shreds, and this could have all been avoided, had we only followed the Constitution.

neurosculptor on February 27, 2010 at 11:03 AM

ohiobabe on February 27, 2010 at 10:57 AM

Sad to say, that is nearly what we are reduced to at this moment. Thankfully, we do have Scott Brown now, hopefully, but that does little if they use the reconciliation trick.

It’s one thing for a “moderate” Dem to go along with it, because they actually do agree with total state control but simply can’t afford to openly show it, especially come election time. It’s another for one to believe in actual moderate principles, “leaning” Dem if you will, that in fact DO love America and reject Statism. Good luck getting the latter group, whoever they really are, to sacrifice their “lives” so to speak for a cause they do not believe in.

Someone needs to identify those who actually are in that group, seperate them from the pretenders, and politely but firmly let them know we support them in their dissent from the Party Leaders.

JamesLee on February 27, 2010 at 11:04 AM

Republicans will find difficult to reverse in the next session

I just don’t understand why this is true. With the electorate clearly on their side, why could they not reverse it. Afterall, it isn’t like you are taking candy from the baby. The “goodies” don’t even begin until 2013 so technically the only thing they’d be taking away is taxation.

And also what good is it to take over an industry when you won’t be the ones running it, possibly for a very long time.

PrincipledPilgrim on February 27, 2010 at 11:06 AM

Democrat jihad is what this is. As with radical Islam, there is no negotiation with it. As they see it, they have a higher purpose. These will be very serious days ahead.

By the way, happy Saturday everyone!

KickandSwimMom on February 27, 2010 at 11:06 AM

I ask this question a lot, but I feel like I never really get a sufficient answer to it: If Obamacare passes, what do we do?

If it passes, it will probably stay. The Republicans (ala McCain) are all too happy to bend over to the insurance industry which will enjoy the insurance mandate and shy away from upsetting the poor people like they did with ignoring the Fannie Mae disaster.

I could easily see the passage of this destroying both parties. The Dems will become the socialist party, those of us conservatives who want real reform will form a third party and the Republicans will become the party of the marginalized moderates.

Skywise on February 27, 2010 at 11:07 AM

Don’t think for a moment O doesn’t know what he is doing. The fact that he is still trying to ram Ocare through should point out he is on a mission to create another entitlement program. He knows once it is in place, it won’t be undone. Even if the R’s get control back at the mid terms, O has veto power. If O then hits with Crap and Trade (regardless of the science), the country stays in financial crisis heading straight to what he wants…more people reliant on the government. After they have sealed their fate with Ocare for the midterms, they will easily pass C&T.

We have to stay ahead of their thinking. It is not time to give up or think they won’t succeed. The fight is still on!

truetexan on February 27, 2010 at 11:08 AM

People love entitlements because they give them stuff.

That’s what people think this is. When they find that they will be paying into this for years before they get anything all hell will break loose.

This backward entitlement coming at this point in history will call all other failing entitlement programs into question.

If passed there will be a legal fight. This is unconstitutional and reconciliation is not appropriate.

If they move ahead they will lose their power, eventually lose the health care bill & destroy many of the socialist programs they’ve worked so hard to create.

Over-reaching.

Dorvillian on February 27, 2010 at 11:09 AM

Let them do whatever the desire . . . then we must begin our work to turn back that stinking socialist aberration.

rplat on February 27, 2010 at 11:09 AM

Everyone needs to go to the headlines section at the top of the homepage and read Hoyer’s Column. What a joke this fool is.

Dire Straits on February 27, 2010 at 11:10 AM

I agree with both McCarthy and Prager in principle. But I have a hard time thinking your typical Dem Rep from a swing district will give up the perks of being a Congressman in order to placate Pelosi.

Sure, Pelosi, Reid, Slaughter, etc will vote for ObamaCare no matter what. But they will also be re-elected no matter what since they represent moonbat districts. But how many of those are there? 100? 150?

There are 260 Dem congressman. That means there are at least 100 or so who have a chance of being defeated. And I don’t see them going down with the ship.

angryed on February 27, 2010 at 11:11 AM

However, that would require all of the politicians of that party to follow suit, and that’s where the Democratic leadership has a big problem.

I have to disagree with you there. I had to deal with the CA legislature a lot back in the day, and party discipline is a two-way street. Guys are told they must vote for Bill A, but they will get Bill B in return, or they will get campaign funds in large buckets. When a pol loses a race, or is sacrificed by the leadership, it’s usually the case that they are promised something else better, like a post on a board that pays $150K a year, never meets, and has great pension benefits.

The congressmen who are resigning or facing losing battles because of their votes will be the new lobbyists, head Health Care Commisars, or justices. There’s something in it for them in taking one for the team. There always is. We just don’t see it yet.

PattyJ on February 27, 2010 at 11:12 AM

Even if the R’s get control back at the mid terms, O has veto power.

truetexan on February 27, 2010 at 11:08 AM

No way. If they pass on reconciliation because that’s what the people voted for then ALL LEGISLATION in the Senate gets voted on simple majority. Screw it, the Dems will have brought this on themselves.

Skywise on February 27, 2010 at 11:12 AM

The Republicans need to stay strong and Kill the Bill and start over!!!! The President is going to take some of the Republicans ideas and add to his already bankrupting plan and present the two plans together. Don’t take the bait Republicans. START OVER!!!!!

yoda on February 27, 2010 at 11:13 AM

Then there is the list of things that government has actually gotten rid of, and I will subtract out war related ones as they lasted only for the duration of their conflict and those rolled into larger agencies:

Agriculture Adjustment Administration – Ruled unconstitutional in 1935.

Board of Economic Warfare – Abolished by the President, 1943.

Board of Tea Appeals – Abolished in 1996 by Congress.

Committee on Public Information – Abolished by the President, 1919.

Foreign Economic Administration – Abolished by departmental order, 1943.

Federal Theater Project – Canceled by Congress in the budget, 1939.

Office of War Information – Ended 1945 by Congress and the President.

Reconstruction Finance Corporation – Ended by Congress 1948.

United States Information Agency – Ended new production 1999, continues broadcasting.

War Production Board – Abolished by the President, 1945.

Works Progress Administration – Ended by Congress in 1943

The list does miss the big one from the 19th century, the National Bank… the equivalent of the Federal Reserve, but that has far more powers than the old National Bank ever had.

Things that were created by the Executive, like the BEW and WPB really were the ‘$1 per year’ men of industry used by FDR for his own war related reasons, and Wilson’s CPI which had lovely campaigns of who you should and should not buy from during WWI. When you take those out you get one taken out by the SCOTUS and the rest by Congress, and one via departmental order for other reasons.

Now start thinking of the extra-constitutional ‘Czars’ who have no standing under the Constitution and yet seem to wield some power and influence. They were not started by Obama, but their presence was not hotly protested under previous Administrations, yet they, too, should go as they are not approved for any offices by either Congress or the Constitution, and advisors should be out of the pocket change of the President’s own pay… not the WH Office Budget but his own pay for personal advice.

Rollback is necessary, and Health Care (if it passes) is a start, not an end: if you fixate on that the problem goes unaddressed for the other Agencies and Offices and Departments that have been a drain on the federal budget and do NOTHING of any value. Education has solved no problems and we still have the exact, same literacy rate as in 1958 when poor Johnny couldn’t read… its a flatline from then to now. Agriculture has become porkland with payements to people who have never farmed and will never farm, and we pay them for not farming. Joy, oh rapture! Energy has not ‘fixed’ any energy problem. If DoD needs high energy test facilities then it should have them… and we then don’t need a Dept. of Energy.

I don’t want government ‘reform’ as it tends to take a worse shape after the reforming, and it, somehow, gets larger. Starve the beast, cut off its limbs and get it down to something that can, actually, do a few things we hand to it under the Constitution. Standing for ‘moderation’ gets you more government and less liberty as immoderate legislators decide they can do more for you with more and bigger government that is less effective and efficient than you are at doing for yourself. Being ‘moderate’ today is an immoderate position as it encourages ever larger, less efficient, less effictive and yet more restrictive and more costly government.

Its broken. You don’t pour a bunch of parts into a broken clock and expect it to magically work. Unfortunately there are now so many extra parts to the thing that even winding it is problematical: one more turn and it just might all explode into pieces. Fixing it does not require more parts… yet we seem to have folks ready to start in with parts from other appliances to see if we can make a blender of the poor thing.

ajacksonian on February 27, 2010 at 11:13 AM

I also think they will double down. Obama will still be president and they always leave congress and make a ton of money lobbying and lawyering. Who knows what political favors have been promised for the votes or what has been threatened.

ldbgcoleman on February 27, 2010 at 11:14 AM

Ok so what can the Republicans do to try to stop this with the Reconciliation rules?

Tasha on February 27, 2010 at 11:14 AM

In the Democrat leadership, we are not dealing with conventional politicians for whom the goal of being reelected is paramount and will rein in their radicalism.

This would be a first. Willing to commit political seppuku for legislation that 73% of Americans are opposed to. Have the Democrats considered that passing this via reconciliation will anger a vast majority of the public? That the Democratic label will be tarnished to such a degree that they will be turned out of office for some time into the future? That those elected to replace then will be sent to Washington for the sole purpose of rolling back this misbegotten legislation? This country CANNOT PAY FOR THIS BILL! The Dumocrats can use every accounting trick in the book. It will not change the fact this bill is an economic disaster.

GarandFan on February 27, 2010 at 11:15 AM

I ask this question a lot, but I feel like I never really get a sufficient answer to it: If Obamacare passes, what do we do? In the short, medium, and long terms? I have to say I have no idea at this point whether or not it will happen; I can see it going either way. But I think that we—as conservatives, or merely as those who are disgusted by the socialism the current Democratic Party wants to foist on us—have to have a plan. And I’m not seeing one from anywhere. Not from Andrew McCarthy, not from HotAir, not from Rush Limbaugh… No one is talking about what our next step is if the worst should happen and Obamacare becomes law. Don’t we need to start looking at that very seriously? It seems to me that would be much more productive than urging the Democrats to ram it through so they’ll lose in November—they don’t care. They’re our enemies, and they’re proving it every day. So why is no one drawing up a cogent plan for defeating them if they end up winning this all-important war they’re now waging?

WesternActor on February 27, 2010 at 10:57 AM

Western, I’ve asked the same question and have not received an answer, other than from those who say, “H…No! I won’t pay for it. I’ll go to jail first!”

While that answer (going to jail) may be borne of high emotion and/or the actual willingness of some to spend time in jail, it obviously is not a viable option for the majority of people in this country who are opposed to ObamaCare.

Given the fact that this hellish bill will be overseen by the IRS through our tax returns, we will have no place left to run and hide. Obviously, the IRS already knows everything about every penny we earn and/or spend, so attempting to thwart their intrusion into the medical aspect of our lives will be an exercise in futility. It’s not as simple as saying “no,” because one way or the other, the IRS will get their due to pay for this monstrosity.

IMHO, there will be no way around it. As the old saying goes, “You can run, but you can’t hide.” And with ObamaCare, there will be no place left to run.

GrannyDee on February 27, 2010 at 11:16 AM

Two mistakes in an otherwise worthwhile post:

1) “However, that would require all of the politicians of that party to follow suit, and that’s where the Democratic leadership has a big problem.”

Unfortunately, false.

Obama-Reid-Pelosi need 50 Senators, out of 59 functional Senate Democrats, and 217 Congressmen, out of 255 Democrats in the House. That means they can achieve reconciliation, even if a significant number of Democrats defect.

2)”However, I suspect that this strategy doesn’t account for the fact that the people who will actually have to end their careers may not appreciate getting forced into marching off a cliff…”

Problem is, for many so-called Blue Dog Democrats, losing in 2010 would be a promotion. There are many lobbyists for every member of Congress – who earn many multiples of a Congressman’s salary – and many of these Blue Dogs have undoubtedly been offered lobbyist jobs in exchange for ratifying ObamaCare.

BCrago66 on February 27, 2010 at 11:18 AM

The problem is that could take a long time. The Democrats sold their souls to the MoveOn.org, Daily Kos, George Soros, SEIU, and leftwing media types in order to destroy Bush and regain power. Removing those people from positions of influence within the party won’t be easy.

Doughboy on February 27, 2010 at 10:58 AM

All quite true, going back to Clinton, which might be why he’s now more to the left than he was when in office.

I’m just not quite ready to pin my hopes on the House Democrats to block this thing, which is the place that really matters at this point, if it can’t get through the House then it is actually dead. This thing needs to be stopped, plain & simple. There’s too many variables if it passes, including the soft stateists that hold seats on the Republican side of the aisle in the Senate.

I think it has destroyed the D party for a while already, too much has been revealed in this process.

lizzie beth on February 27, 2010 at 11:18 AM

McCarthy is right. This is about power, not getting re-elected in the immediate future. The Dems want control of the middle class and its wealth.

They get control of the middle class’ health care, with the eventual single payer coming as insurance companies go bust, and then they can tax the middle class with the threat that if they don’t they’ll cut the middle class’ medical coverage.

The GOP would be reduced to the Conservatives in England – arguing that they can run the social welfare state more efficienlty, not that they’ll dismantle it.

Wethal on February 27, 2010 at 10:11 AM

Worth repeating.
Ditto

onlineanalyst on February 27, 2010 at 11:19 AM

This is their jihad. They don’t care about the consequences. It’s the liberal dream – to socialize and simultaneously destroy the American dream. It’s war. Does the right realize the stakes?

Pablo Snooze on February 27, 2010 at 11:22 AM

I hate to say this, but I do believe their will be a R@volution of sorts if the Dems ram this through. If they think the American giant is awake now, they have not seen the problems that this will cause in the American streets.

d1carter on February 27, 2010 at 11:23 AM

I have an unconventional thought, but don’t know if it can be implemented. Could a conservative governor of a State, call home their liberal Senators and Congressmen, so they are unable to vote on the health care bill?

GFW on February 27, 2010 at 11:24 AM

It is a sound theory and I can agree it is possible.

figuring that once they get it, it will never be rolled back.

But the mistake is when the “glorious” benefits start; 2013.

If those who are not members of the Statist church obtain power before the benefits start, there is nothing to roll back.

And best of all, the taxes will start right away; so if we roll back the taxes we roll back the benefits that the Left promised, but never delivered.

The mantra should be “The left promised healthcare but only delivered more taxes. Kill the bill, End taxes with no benefits.”

barnone on February 27, 2010 at 11:25 AM

So if they succeed in their coup d’etat of our Constitutional Republic via reconciliation what are we prepared to do about it? I absolutely refuse to be forced into indentured servitude to a socialist state. Does the GOP have the guts to use any means necessary to rid our nation of this monstrosity? This is a center-right nation with a lot of real patriots and believers in our Constitution who will absolutely refuse to go willingly into the good night of statism.

When is the million man armed march on DC? I’ll bring my weapons.

DerKrieger on February 27, 2010 at 11:29 AM

The last time we had a congress that so valued its ideology over its own survival in the way that andy describes we marched into Civil War.

I’m beginning to think that not even the risk of mass secession would deter the democrats from their vicious socialist power-grab.

And maybe it shouldn’t. There’s nothing that would convince the electorate more about the nature of the progressive cancer in our polity than to have them push us towards another cataclysmic confrontation.

Khorum on February 27, 2010 at 11:32 AM

I have an unconventional thought, but don’t know if it can be implemented. Could a conservative governor of a State, call home their liberal Senators and Congressmen, so they are unable to vote on the health care bill?

GFW on February 27, 2010 at 11:24 AM

Great idea, but unfortunatly no.

katy the mean old lady on February 27, 2010 at 11:35 AM

When is the million man armed march on DC? I’ll bring my weapons.

DerKrieger on February 27, 2010 at 11:29 AM

Except for the armed part, I agree there will be marches. The people who marched during Viet Nam are seniors now, who will be hurt the most by this ObamaCare.

txmomof6 on February 27, 2010 at 11:35 AM

If this passes all good Conservatives MUST work at the state level to pass 10th amendment challenges and nullification. A lot of states have already passed legislation that would nullify at least the insurance mandate. Even if the case goes to the SCOTUS the states still have the right to refuse to play along. Even Jefferson ignored a SCOTUS ruling he believed was wrong. If the Left manages to fully take over the SCOTUS and rules against the Constitution time and time again are we bound to their rulings even though they obviously are wrong? I say no.

DerKrieger on February 27, 2010 at 11:35 AM

HARRY AND NANCY SITTING IN A TREE K-N-I-V-I-N-G
FIRST COMES ANGER
THEN COMES DISPARAGE
NEXT COMES A CONSTITUTION THAT IS SURE TO PERISH!

justonevictory on February 27, 2010 at 11:36 AM

txmomof6 on February 27, 2010 at 11:35 AM

They would be pointless then.

DerKrieger on February 27, 2010 at 11:36 AM

Read Mark Steyn’s column from NRO today:

http://article.nationalreview.com/print/?q=MzRlNGVjZjMwYjZkZjUwN2MyMTIyNWNkNDVhYjQ5NzQ=

Dems like ridiculing Tea Partiers for the comment, “We want to take our country back.” Maybe that sounds reactionary–though I disagree–so the clarion call should be, “We want to stear our country away from running off a cliff like Greece.”

You may not be able to get across to True Believers who are casual acquaintances or even friends. But try like h*ll to impress this upon members of your family.

And we need politicians who tell Americans–individuals and special interests–”We’ll do what we can to ensure a level playing field, but you have to stand on your own two feet.”

BuckeyeSam on February 27, 2010 at 11:36 AM

From AoS…

HARRY REID TRIED TO SPLIT CONSERVATIVE VOTE WITH FAKE TEA PARTY CANDIDATE:

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) is running scared – and now he’s sunk to a new low!

Falling increasingly behind in the polls, Reid’s cronies have reportedly launched a fake new “Tea Party” political party being formed to help Harry Reid save his re-election bid.

The fake “Tea Party” is apparently a scam to split the conservative vote in November, and thus provide a means for Reid to win re-election.

The leader of this fake “Nevada Tea Party” is a 2008 Obama supporter who represents male porn star John Wayne Bobbitt. Remember him? His wife was Lorena Bobbitt, and she made an alteration to his body below the belt – enough said.

Jeff2161 on February 27, 2010 at 11:36 AM

If they succeed in passing this crap, we’ll need to pray even harder for the good health and personal safety of Justices Scalia, Alito, Thomas, Roberts, and even Kennedy.

That’s where the game is ultimately headed. And they well know it

TXUS on February 27, 2010 at 11:37 AM

Here’s the corner they are backed into: Any bill they pass now won’t give anybody a single benefit before 2012. If nobody’s surviving on the milk, who can object to killing the cow? Not only that, but passing the bill is guaranteed to keep conservative anger going right into 2012, as more and more lefty Boomers decide being able to pay for a nursing home is more important than nourishing dreams of their youth.

Sekhmet on February 27, 2010 at 11:42 AM

DerKrieger on February 27, 2010 at 11:36 AM
I have faith in the First Amendment and petitioning our government. I don’t think it would be pointless…:)

txmomof6 on February 27, 2010 at 11:43 AM

If they succeed in passing this crap, we’ll need to pray even harder for the good health and personal safety of Justices Scalia, Alito, Thomas, Roberts, and even Kennedy.

That’s where the game is ultimately headed. And they well know it

TXUS on February 27, 2010 at 11:37 AM

Should we be looking for a “Progressive Insurance” brief written by a law student from a second-tier law school?

s/

BuckeyeSam on February 27, 2010 at 11:44 AM

Tasha on February 27, 2010 at 11:14 AM

Amend it to death.

I seem to remember an episode in the 80′s where an unpopular bill was passed and seniors were chasing congress critters down the street with baseball bats. I believe that will look like a 3 Stooges episode compared to the ropes and guns that will be used if Congress tries to ram this down.

chemman on February 27, 2010 at 11:46 AM

We need to be very clear on a couple of points. For one, “reconciliation” is bandied about as some sort of magic process that will push Obamacare through no matter what. Not so. There are numerous parliamentary and congressional rules that must be overcome first, such as simply voting for the damn thing in the House in the first place. The Senate bill, as passed, is the only one that can be voted on and then presented for reconciliation. Not likely, right?
Then there’s the matter of the narrow scope of reconciliation. It’s for money matters only, so it likely won’t apply to large portions of the bill as it stands now. This will expose the financial end to much more public scrutiny than there is now, by requiring the dems to pull any and all taxes, expenditures, etc., out of the fine print to vote on them. Again, not likely, since all the “deals” will no longer have cover.
Finally, there’s the matter of Sen. DeMint’s objection. Little-covered so far, the objection is to the formation of a senate-house conference committee, which is a requirement for reconciliation. I’m not totally familiar with this particular parliamentary move, but it appears to be similar to the “hold” one senator can place on things like presidential appointees – not subject to override. If that’s the case, then why are we talking about reconciliation when there is no possible way to get to that point?

n0doz on February 27, 2010 at 11:46 AM

n0doz on February 27, 2010 at 11:46 AM
I heard about that. Do you know when he made the objection?

txmomof6 on February 27, 2010 at 11:48 AM

Folks youy need to see the latest video by Steven Crowder. It pretty much sums up goverment run health care. Hope you enjoy. Here it is.

Dire Straits on February 27, 2010 at 11:55 AM

Nah, I don’t think they can pull it off.

joe_doufu on February 27, 2010 at 11:56 AM

Folks youy need to see the latest video by Steven Crowder. It pretty much sums up goverment run health care. Hope you enjoy. Here it is.

Dire Straits on February 27, 2010 at 11:55 AM

Sorry screwed it up. Here it is.

Dire Straits on February 27, 2010 at 11:57 AM

If these analyses are true, why isn’t Obamacare already passed and signed?

Missy on February 27, 2010 at 11:00 AM

Exactly, they couldn’t get the votes, or the vote would be discussed in the past tense.

In the simplest of thinking, I don’t believe they have the votes now, and will not get them. There has to be a lot of locker room discussions going on amongst a lot of Dem pols who are saying that both Reid and Pelosi aren’t too tightly bound anymore.

I do not believe that all the necessary Dems are going to race over the cliff for a couple of nut cases, especially as the November elections loom closer and closer, and the polls continue to tank.

Obama, Reid and Pelosi are manic, the rest not as much (with the exception of the other well-known and visible nutcases).

Yoop on February 27, 2010 at 11:57 AM

“A great civilization cannot be conquered from without until it destroys itself from within” ~~Ariel Durant

Barry Soetero and his gang are working on getting that done.

volsense on February 27, 2010 at 11:59 AM

I also think they will double down. Obama will still be president and they always leave congress and make a ton of money lobbying and lawyering. Who knows what political favors have been promised for the votes or what has been threatened.

ldbgcoleman on February 27, 2010 at 11:14 AM

You just gave me this delightful image of Obama years from now running around the country and the world making a fool of himself like Jimmy Carter. Enjoying the thought, thanks.

jeanie on February 27, 2010 at 12:01 PM

This is why we need to be ruthless in fighting these bastards. There is no room for civility.

darwin on February 27, 2010 at 10:30 AM

Forget the “Clash of Civilizations” between the West and Islam, there’s one right here at home between the Right and Left.

I will be honest, I don’t think the Right has the guts, primarily for religious reasons, to do what needs to be done.

At the very least, the cultural conditions need to be created where expressing a Leftist idea in public is tantamount to expressing a racist idea in public.

I’m glad people are waking up to the fact that the Left isn’t rational, because that means people are also waking up to the fact that the lack of rationality precludes any notion of being able to persuade them of their being wrong on policy.

venividivici on February 27, 2010 at 12:07 PM

@JamesLee 11:04: I think you’d have to do a lot more than provide moral support for those moderates, assuming you can accurately identify them. You’d have to either coax them into switching parties or promise to soft pedal any GOP challenge in the fall.
Conversely, if I were that unhappy in the Führerbunker I would still head for the American lines if I could – assuming I had some reason to hope for clemency.

Seth Halpern on February 27, 2010 at 12:07 PM

If you’re a Blue (Lap) Dog Democrat and you’re likely to lose reelection, what are you more likely to do, buck leadership, lose anyway and be left as a jobless pariah? Or suck it down, vote with the leadership, get whacked in November and have a nice cushy job provided by the WH waiting for you because you took one for the team? Most of these people no longer live in their home states anymore so it’s not like they have to go home and face the neighbors. Their hearts/homes are in DC and their lives will be much more comfortable toeing the party line.

jnelchef on February 27, 2010 at 12:08 PM

Santorum said that reconciliation means that the GOP can offer unlimited amendments which would tie congress up forevah.

Anyhoo, I hope we are working quietly behind the scenes to invite some disaffected blue-dogs to switch parties.

Buy Danish on February 27, 2010 at 12:12 PM

If these analyses are true, why isn’t Obamacare already passed and signed?

Missy on February 27, 2010 at 11:00 AM

For the same reason that a Muslim suicide bomber doesn’t START with a bombing. He first tries to persuade others that “Islam is the answer” or that the enemies of Islam should cease their persecution of Muslims. When he realizes others aren’t changing their ways, he escalates to bombing.

After the embarrassment at the summit, our Leftist “suicide bombers” are forgoing “persuasion mode” and “appeals to peace mode” and moving in to “suicide mode”.

If it passes, I hope that some day Nancy Pelosi has to seek refuge in San Fran “safe houses” the same way OBL has to seek it in the hills of Afghanistan.

venividivici on February 27, 2010 at 12:14 PM

Not only is political suicide much more likely for them than it is for Pelosi, Anthony Weiner, Jarrold Nadler, et al, they’re temperamentally different from the leadership clique as well.

They’re from Red districts, yet they chose to run as Democrats (a party they knew pre-campaign was dominated by her type)… and, still, they’re somehow different in kind from Pelosi?

How do you square that circle?

JDPerren on February 27, 2010 at 12:15 PM

I am wondering if the also truly believe that their poll numbers will go up if they pass ObamaCare? Either way, these Democrats are the new Totalitarians. They aspire to be Big Brother ala Orwell’s 1984, only kindlier and gentler.

Blue Collar Todd on February 27, 2010 at 12:17 PM

If you’re a Blue (Lap) Dog Democrat and you’re likely to lose reelection, what are you more likely to do, buck leadership, lose anyway and be left as a jobless pariah? Or suck it down, vote with the leadership, get whacked in November and have a nice cushy job provided by the WH waiting for you because you took one for the team?

Your assumptions would be correct in a normal year, but not here. There are only so many of these cushy jobs to go around. More importantly, they have to figure that after they lose, it will only be another 2 years before BO does as well, and then how will he help them? Not to mention that the Dem name will be absolute poison for the forseeable future. No, they will talk a good game for now and thump their chests, but in the end, a few of the Blue Dogs will abjure this process, and then it will become a wholesale route. Noone wants to be the last one to die for the indefensible.

pehrsson on February 27, 2010 at 12:17 PM

Conventional political thinking holds that once enacted, legislation, especially entitlement programs are virtually impossible to repeal. And in the main, that is something that I believe.

However, the mask has been dropped off of the Dems and their full-on fanatic leftism has been on display, in all its ugly, ham-fisted power mad glory for all of America to see.

This might be an opportunity, if presented correctly, for Republicans and conservatives to utilize to actually repeal any of this if it is ever passed (G-ed forbid) as well as to use as a weapon against Dems. The liberal label can be exchanged for the statist label, and quite effectively.

J.J. Sefton on February 27, 2010 at 12:17 PM

I think you’d have to do a lot more than provide moral support for those moderates, assuming you can accurately identify them. You’d have to either coax them into switching parties or promise to soft pedal any GOP challenge in the fall.
Conversely, if I were that unhappy in the Führerbunker I would still head for the American lines if I could – assuming I had some reason to hope for clemency.

Seth Halpern on February 27, 2010 at 12:07 PM

It might take a little more than moral support, I agree. Again, the first step is to accurately identify them.

Part of what might push them into siding with the Party Leadership is promises of support and especially cash in their reelection bids. As well as allowing a few votes here and there for some political cover. But if it can be made clear that they would get support at home without the party machine behind them, there might, just might be a couple here and there that could sway.

It would not take very many, and every single one counts. A “No” vote will be a no vote, no matter where it comes from or the motivations behind casting it.

As for the “clemency” bit, heck, Americans eat up a good redemption story. His/her campaign speeches can center on how they’d been mislead into going along party line votes, but they’ve now seen the light, and arent’ going to take it, love the country, actually listening to voters, take back their party, etc etc. They WOULD have to follow through, though, and that’s why this fight is never over.

JamesLee on February 27, 2010 at 12:20 PM

Taking a longer term view, what can be passed by reconciliation can be undone by reconciliation. There is of course the Presidential veto, but that will be 2012. Assuming that what is passed still has taxes starting now but the plan not kicking in until 2011, it is well within reason that we could see a few months of Obamacare followed by its repeal, assuming the right does a trifecta between now and 2012 – something well within the realm of possibility.

Wolf Howling on February 27, 2010 at 12:21 PM

Andy has a point.

As do several posters here at HA who’ve been saying this for quite a long time now. *clears throat*

Welcome to the party, Andy.

Midas on February 27, 2010 at 12:22 PM

83 members in the progressive caucus in the Congress some up for re election in November why aren’t their seats being targeted?

Dr Evil on February 27, 2010 at 12:24 PM

Taking a longer term view, what can be passed by reconciliation can be undone by reconciliation.

Wolf Howling on February 27, 2010 at 12:21 PM

‘… can be…’ is the operative phrase there.

‘… likely won’t be…’ is the probability once legislation that grants this kind of power and control to the government is enacted.

Midas on February 27, 2010 at 12:24 PM

54 Blue Dogs who are vulnerable in Conservative Precincts. this is who the progressives are willing to sacrifice.

Dr Evil on February 27, 2010 at 12:26 PM

They can try running off a cliff but this wave is still going to hit…and they are the face of the people in power so guess who get’s to own all the unpopular outcomes from their legislation?

Dr Evil on February 27, 2010 at 12:45 PM

I really should put together a macro for this comment, I’ve made 20+ times since before Christmas.

Harry, Barry, and Nancy have declared legislative jeeeehod… The martyr belts cannot be removed… They have built a slush fund of nearly a trillion dollars to pay every democrat congress critter their equivalent of 72 virgins for sacrificing their seats for the cause…

It’ ain’t over until the 2011 Congress is sworn in.

phreshone on February 27, 2010 at 12:52 PM

With all due respect, Mr. McCarthy is way behind what us amateur “Monday Morning Quarterbacks” have been saying since the summer of 2009. Just look at some archived comments here or on a site like Free Republic. We already what the likes of Pelosi, Reid and Zero are: committed ideologues who will take the short term hit to “transform” America.

MichaelJ68 on February 27, 2010 at 12:55 PM

After reading about Soros and Shadow Party last night, it’s pretty clear what is really going on.

The most depressing and frightening thing I have ever read.

But the nagging question is WHY? Power can only go so far if the country is A) bankrupt, B) demoralized, and C) susceptible to REAL dangers because of A & B.

tru2tx on February 27, 2010 at 12:55 PM

It’s a nightmare that will keep repeating until the progressive movement in this country is crushed, until it’s removed from respectability in mainstream politics.

petefrt on February 27, 2010 at 10:28 AM

I agree. We made communism a dirty word.
But unfortunately, these evil subsets of people slink back into a hole somewhere & are reborn with a new name & fake purpose.
Old commies becoming enviro wackos, etc.
Man will always struggle against these insane, evil people.

Badger40 on February 27, 2010 at 1:01 PM

Abort Congress.

Maquis on February 27, 2010 at 1:03 PM

For those of you counting on HCR being undone- you’re assuming that the Republicans in office are not only sufficiently motivated to try and roll it back, but that they can remain solidly united to do so: in the face of Democrats lying incessantly on TV about the GOP stealing people’s health care, being in the pocket of evil big business and no doubt extolling any number of imagined bad outcomes if the GOP is successful. Aided and abetted by a willing media they will paint this process as an attack on the health of Americans.

While all of us here understand the issue many more do not- and the majority of them get their information from the MSM. Let’s none of us forget that the Democrats- and their stooges in the media- will lie through their teeth about this.

Obama won an election by lying about his true intentions- he continues to do it to this day; as we’ve all seen in the discussions on health care. Dems will use that as an important tool to fight any GOP attempt to roll back HCR.

Jay Mac on February 27, 2010 at 1:04 PM

BTW, I’d strongly urge you all to read Steyn’s latest piece too- when entitlements are handed out, those who get them are loath to hand them back; even if the country they live in is toppling on the brink of destruction.

http://article.nationalreview.com/print/?q=MzRlNGVjZjMwYjZkZjUwN2MyMTIyNWNkNDVhYjQ5NzQ=

Jay Mac on February 27, 2010 at 1:06 PM

@ tru2tx:

For years, so-called “fringe” types like Boortz and Savage, and to a lesser extent, even Limbaugh, have been saying the goal of the hard Left is to get up to 50% +1 who are totally dependant on government in some form. And the more forms, the better. Once that happens, they are in power for a lifetime, with little opposition to do whatever they want.

I used to somewhat scoff at this, for the reasons you listed. What’s the point of having money and power if there is nothing or no one to exercise that power over? Less and less “rich” people to provide means of production and revenue, with more and more “poor” people dependant on those revenues.

However, I suppose that once they wrest total control of everything, they keep the factories working, and without a profit to split with shareholders, the government takes it all.

I still think this is a means to get to the end, and that being the Communist Utopia that has never actually been achieved anywhere. Even the Soviets with their iron-grip on power could not get there, mostly because of our Xerox machines, rock and roll, and blue jeans.

They think that once they get that Utopia, they will make everything work, because, you know, they are so much smarter than us, we just don’t get how awesome it will be. Plus, they would get to define what works and how.

This is not and never was about “helping the ininsured.” Everyone is right, this is about power. And it’s exactly the sort of power the Founding Fathers knew would come, and did everything in their power to block. At least it’s worked for over 200 years. I hope and pray it will last longer.

JamesLee on February 27, 2010 at 1:06 PM

With all due respect, Mr. McCarthy is way behind what us amateur “Monday Morning Quarterbacks” have been saying since the summer of 2009. Just look at some archived comments here or on a site like Free Republic. We already what the likes of Pelosi, Reid and Zero are: committed ideologues who will take the short term hit to “transform” America.

MichaelJ68 on February 27, 2010 at 12:55 PM

Absolutely correct. The GOP scares the hell out of me because they are too much of the McCain “My Friend” mentality that don’t understand that Khrushchev still lurks in the hearts of our dear leaders.

Maquis on February 27, 2010 at 1:06 PM

While all of us here understand the issue many more do not- and the majority of them get their information from the MSM. Let’s none of us forget that the Democrats- and their stooges in the media- will lie through their teeth about this.

While I do agree that some get their news from the msm…not all of them do, and I don’t think a majority do. The polls tell us a lot. While I’m not an obsessive believer of polls, poll after poll shows us the declining of the Democrats. The fact that CBS, and ABC are having some big lay offs, Newsweek lost millions….is testament to a growing population, whose numbers continue to grow, as informed, and knowledgeable about what is going on. Tell a friend…pass it on. Word of mouth is powerful too.

capejasmine on February 27, 2010 at 1:09 PM

The Democrat Party and this administration, are only interested in their own power and taking this nation into complete communism.
THIS IS A TEST TO THE SOVEREIGNTY OF THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION AND THE PEOPLE THAT ADHERE TO IT.
And there are few Conservative/Republican legislators that realize this.

Cybergeezer on February 27, 2010 at 1:17 PM

I think Andy is wrong – I don’t think the Democrats have thought about the full ramifications of reconciliation. Thus far in the debate they’ve shown an acute inability to think ANY moves ahead and have shown they are political noobs – falling into one trap after another and attempting difficult maneuvers in the face of their opponents which only highlight their impotence.

But … in a way – I hope Andy is right.

Because I’ll tell you this – if he’s right – then there will come a time in this reconciliation process where they’ll be against a wall and will be FORCED to violate some rules. At which time – we can paint these fools not only as Socialists – but UN-Constitutional and power abusive ones at that.

We can destroy the Democratic party here. Or – at the very least, force it to reorganize and change it’s name …

Like ACORN. :P

HondaV65 on February 27, 2010 at 1:27 PM

The biggest mistake conservatives make is thinking that liberals are intelligent, principled, reasonable people. It’s a charming trait of conservatives, but it’s wrong and is why conservatism has been on the losing side for so long.

This post by Ed has to be one of the most naive I’ve ever read from him. And that’s saying something. Like most decent, principled, intelligent people, Ed simply refuses to see what is right in front of him.

When are you conservatives going to wake up and realize that every single liberal out there hates you with the passion of a thousand suns? When are you going to see that the hatefilled crap you read on blog comments and see on MSNBC is what the average, everyday, liberal thinks and believes?

I don’t think you’re ever going to see it. NO. You’ll keep going after your own side at every possible perceived weakness and misstep, at everything you think embarrasses the conservative cause. Ann Coulter is a stand up comic. Rush Limbaugh is just an entertainer. I can’t wait to see how all you reasonable conservatives label Andrew Breitbart now that he’s taken the gloves off.

Liberals hate you and everything you stand for. They consider you Evil with a capital E. Every single liberal out there would condone torture a lot worse than waterboarding for every single one of you.

Liberals are insane. Every. Single. One. Of. Them. They live in a dream world where they are the only good guys.

It will pass.

Jaynie59 on February 27, 2010 at 1:27 PM

Liberals hate you and everything you stand for. They consider you Evil with a capital E. Every single liberal out there would condone torture a lot worse than waterboarding for every single one of you.

Liberals are insane. Every. Single. One. Of. Them. They live in a dream world where they are the only good guys.

Jaynie59 on February 27, 2010 at 1:27 PM

Having spent much of my adult life around liberals, I agree. I know that were I to say what needs to be done, it would entail an immediate banning.

venividivici on February 27, 2010 at 1:33 PM

Dems have truly decided that the public reaction was fear-engendered and promoted by Fox and family. They believe that down to their toes.

The truth is that Democrats abandoned “pocket-book” Democrats years ago. They don’t rely upon that group for reelection. They cater to a much different coalition. They are convinced that their coalition won the last election and, therefore, won the right to their own platform.

I would normally agree. I would normally compare this to the war Bush pushed, although the public was lukewarm.

HOWEVER, this time is different, to me, due to the economic crash. The debate over what’s the best approach to recover, if we even can recover, are startling. You almost really do have to pick one and pray.

Dems are picking their own hand, and if that leads to using reconciliation for programs that they hate in the future? So be it.

They are going to “open that door,” so to speak.

They are counting on people liking the reform after it’s passed and proving the naysayers wrong.

And, let’s face it: On some aspects, they’re probably right. On others, no.

The debate was marked with “high” rhetoric from both sides. That tells me, both sides are exaggerating more than a little.

AnninCA on February 27, 2010 at 1:40 PM

BTW, I’d strongly urge you all to read Steyn’s latest piece too- when entitlements are handed out, those who get them are loath to hand them back; even if the country they live in is toppling on the brink of destruction.

http://article.nationalreview.com/print/?q=MzRlNGVjZjMwYjZkZjUwN2MyMTIyNWNkNDVhYjQ5NzQ=

Jay Mac on February 27, 2010 at 1:06 PM

Another excellent analysis of the logic of the “entitlement state”. It really was a study in contrasts at the summit to see the Dems trot out sob stories and impressionistic ramblings and the GOP bring some numbers to the table. The numbers just don’t work. You don’t have to be some “green eyeshade” type to not want the Greek situation to replay itself here, you just have to have some common sense.

I also loved the use of the terms “ponzi scheme” and “Madoff accounting” by the GOP to describe ObamaCare’s budgetary gimmicks. Would that they’d apply that analysis to Medicare and Social Security!

venividivici on February 27, 2010 at 1:41 PM

McCarthy fails to mention that Dems have nothing to lose by voting the party line. If they don’t get re-elected, there’s gazillions from the stimulus funds coming their way to ease their pain.

As lots of people above commented, we conservatives don’t understand just how much the left hates, not only our politics, but us as individuals.

Chas. Krauthammer said it best, We think the left is wrong; they think we’re evil.

erp on February 27, 2010 at 1:45 PM

HondaV65 on February 27, 2010 at 1:27 PM

Old school democrats with any knowledge of game theory/decision making are LONG gone. IF they did, they would understand that NO or ‘do nothing’ are always a possible answer. Thinking several moves ahead, that’s not how the modern democrat plays. They just through a fit and wipe all the pieces off the boards when you don’t let them win…

phreshone on February 27, 2010 at 1:47 PM

The debate was marked with “high” rhetoric from both sides. That tells me, both sides are exaggerating more than a little.

AnninCA on February 27, 2010 at 1:40 PM

If you read the Steyn article linked above, you will see that, while the opponents of ObamaCare may be “exaggerating” in the short-term, the logic of the long-term implications are not being exaggerated. Socialism of the non-Soviet type kills by degrees, but it still kills.

Simply put, there is not enough money in the world for the US government to borrow to fund another entitlement. The Dems are operating under the assumption that there is. It’s simply factually incorrect. That means taxes are going to have to go sky-high, which will kill any recovery in its tracks. We already have a multi-trillion dollar pension gap for public employees and if the UK experience with the NHS is any indication, the number of people who will work to administer this health care benefit will only add to that pension gap.

venividivici on February 27, 2010 at 1:48 PM

My guess is that they will not all willingly climb aboard the Kamikaze planes Nancy, Harry and Barrack having warming up on the tarmac. The first principle about all socialists, of whatever stripe, that one must remember is that they are in it for themselves and what they can get out of it first and foremost. All the DC pols want to reap the power, perks and payola that goes with being in Congress first, THEN they are all about “helping the prols”. I’m betting on self preservation.

JimP on February 27, 2010 at 1:51 PM

Like I have said, and like Sean Hannity has said, there are no Blue Dog democrats. They simply pretended, for the most part except maybe a handful, to be moderate. They are all liars. I went to vote in the primary here in TX at the local University and when asked which party, I proudly said REpublican and told them I could never ever ever be a demorat coming from a communist country. I loved the looks on the “poll workers’” faces. They both looked like libs.

immigrantchick on February 27, 2010 at 1:52 PM

The “NATURAL BORN CITIZEN” clause was meant to stop exactly this dangerous situation. All who railed against even having the courts hear the cases (and called us “birthers” to try and shut us up) should sit quietly and contemplate what their fears have brought us. Only the Indonesian Imbecile held us and our institutions in such contempt that he would have no compunction tearing our system to absolute shreds, and this could have all been avoided, had we only followed the Constitution.

Your points here may be valid in the sense that Obama carries the wrong ideology to be an American president. However, in my view your passion is mis-directed. Obama was raised and nurtured by extreme radical leftists (American Marxists actually), his entire world view is formed by such notions – from childhood on through radical associations in his professional career.

Even if Obama were never adopted by Soetero and lived in Indonesia for a time his ideological moorings would have shaped what is obviously and Anti-American Ideology.

Obama is a lifelong Marxist and it is that ideology that should never hold power in the an American presidency.

JonPrichard on February 27, 2010 at 1:52 PM

That means taxes are going to have to go sky-high, which will kill any recovery in its tracks. We already have a multi-trillion dollar pension gap for public employees and if the UK experience with the NHS is any indication, the number of people who will work to administer this health care benefit will only add to that pension gap.

venividivici on February 27, 2010 at 1:48 PM

I think that’s precisely why the public is more than wary about this Dem plan.

But then, I think I’m an old-fashioned liberal. I actually believe that the majority of people, not caught up in ideology, have commonsense.

They may be wrong on this or that issue, but overall? It’s best to trust the people.

AnninCA on February 27, 2010 at 1:53 PM

When are you conservatives going to wake up and realize that every single liberal out there hates you with the passion of a thousand suns? When are you going to see that the hatefilled crap you read on blog comments and see on MSNBC is what the average, everyday, liberal thinks and believes?

…..
Jaynie59 on February 27, 2010 at 1:27 PM

–That is total BS, Jaynie. What objective proof do you have to back up your statement.

Jimbo3 on February 27, 2010 at 1:56 PM

Voter Approval of Obama’s Presidency Reaches All-Time Low of 43% Post Health Care Summit http://tiny.cc/PQcJf

Anti-Harkonnen Freedom Fighter on February 27, 2010 at 1:57 PM

–That is total BS, Jaynie. What objective proof do you have to back up your statement.

Jimbo3 on February 27, 2010 at 1:56 PM

Jeneane garofolo, Keith Olberman, Bill Maher, Bill Moyers, Rachel Maddow, Charles Johnson, David Schuster

daesleeper on February 27, 2010 at 1:59 PM

When are you conservatives going to wake up and realize that every single liberal out there hates you with the passion of a thousand suns.

–That is total BS, Jaynie. What objective proof do you have to back up your statement.

Jimbo3 on February 27, 2010 at 1:56 PM
Jeneane garofolo, Keith Olberman, Bill Maher, Bill Moyers, Rachel Maddow, Charles Johnson, David Schuster

daesleeper on February 27, 2010 at 1:59 PM

—That’s 7 people, not “every single liberal”. And I don’t consider Charles Johnson a real liberal on every issue.

Jimbo3 on February 27, 2010 at 2:04 PM

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