David Gergen on the summit: Republicans had their best day in years

posted at 8:01 pm on February 25, 2010 by Allahpundit

Via Hengler, a succinct statement of Jay Nordlinger’s point and of what I suspect will be the media consensus tomorrow. Not the only kind words he had for the GOP either:

The folks in the White House just must be kicking themselves right now. They thought that coming out of Baltimore when the President went in and was mesmerizing and commanding in front of the House Republicans that he could do that again here today. That would revive health care and would change the public opinion about their health care bill and they can go on to victory. Just the opposite has happened.

I don’t think they seriously expected it to revive health care but they did expect enough pwnag3 by The One to buy them some extra cover on using reconciliation. Didn’t happen. (Not that that will stop them.) Obama’s problem today was that he couldn’t fly solo; he tried to, speaking for more minutes at the meeting than either the Democrats or Republicans did, but surrounding him with sad sacks like Reid and Harkin was bound to dilute the effect. Lotttt of water mixed in with the Hopenchange whiskey today.

My favorite reaction thus far comes from Marc Ambinder, echoing Kevin Kline talking about Vietnam at the end of “A Fish Called Wanda”: It was a tie!

Update: Media consensus status check: Building!

Blowback

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Can someone with an accurate pessimism meter ‘splain to me any holes in this?

http://www.redstate.com/dan_perrin/2010/02/25/sen-conrad-the-house-goes-first-or-obamacare-dies-thank-you-senator-demint/

RachDubya on February 25, 2010 at 8:59 PM

AP, you need to find the clip at the end during Obama’s final remarks. Obama said he was surprised that Bush and the Republican Congress couldn’t get a specific thing passed through (I forget what it was he mentioned), and then some Republican off-camera interjected and said, “Because we had to get 60 votes, too.”

And it PISSED Obama off beyond words and threw him off his speech.

Enoxo on February 25, 2010 at 8:13 PM
That was Lamar Alexander. It was a great moment.

carbon_footprint on February 25, 2010 at 8:22 PM
Please, oh please post the clip!!

TN Mom on February 25, 2010 at 8:31 PM

TN MOM: Heres an exchange between Hopey and Alexander!!
=======================================================
Obama Smacks Down Alexander: ‘It’s Not Factually Accurate’

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLtqkRNraNk

canopfor on February 25, 2010 at 9:01 PM

Laura Ingraham is PO’d at BOR….he’s a putz these days.

ted c on February 25, 2010 at 8:18 PM

He was on Fox and Friends this morning saying the government had to step in and do something about the “huge” profits the insurance companies are making. I had to do a double take. He has lost it and slid into the RINO pit because of his popus ego and the drive for ratings.

cobrakai99 on February 25, 2010 at 9:05 PM

GOP: Start Over on Health Care

Lamar Alexander Clip!
=================================================
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROokw-x2tio&feature=PlayList&p=BE8BF62A51E54380&index=75

canopfor on February 25, 2010 at 9:06 PM

Obama would have been better off serving beers and getting everyone shitfaced. In vino veritas. Maybe we would have gotten to some rock bottom truths if everyone was loaded to the gills.

GarandFan on February 25, 2010 at 9:10 PM

GOP: Start Over on Health Care

Lamar Alexander Clip!
=================================================
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROokw-x2tio&feature=PlayList&p=BE8BF62A51E54380&index=75

canopfor on February 25, 2010 at 9:06 PM

You’re the Bomb for posting that link canop-awesome!

huskerdiva on February 25, 2010 at 9:14 PM

Obama could have spoken for the whole meeting and he only would have dug his hole deeper. He was terrible, no need to blame it on his party.

jnelchef on February 25, 2010 at 9:18 PM

Obama would have been better off serving beers and getting everyone shitfaced. In vino veritas. Maybe we would have gotten to some rock bottom truths if everyone was loaded to the gills.

GarandFan on February 25, 2010 at 9:10 PM

I didn’t get to watch the summit, but from those remarks I assume Baucus wasn’t there?

justltl on February 25, 2010 at 9:31 PM

canopfor on February 25, 2010 at 9:01 PM

Thanks for the great links!

TN Mom on February 25, 2010 at 9:31 PM

David Rodham Gergen looks like he just sniffed the vinegary contents of Nazi Pelosi’s douchebag.

OmahaConservative on February 25, 2010 at 9:37 PM

Allaha — You do know that if they use the nuclear option on health care, then they use it on cap and trade, then they use it on card check, then they … Why not?

And the Senate is no more. And then America is Venezuela. With a permanent two bit tin pot dictator for life …

And then when the Congress changes they ram it right back out … It’s not good anyway you look at it.

In fact if we did away with the whole reconciliation rule, I would bet that deficits would drop, fast.

tarpon on February 25, 2010 at 9:51 PM

Can someone with an accurate pessimism meter ’splain to me any holes in this?

http://www.redstate.com/dan_perrin/2010/02/25/sen-conrad-the-house-goes-first-or-obamacare-dies-thank-you-senator-demint/

RachDubya on February 25, 2010 at 8:59 PM

I don’t think there are any.
Gotta love those arcane parliamentary rules.

n0doz on February 25, 2010 at 9:52 PM

Laura Ingraham is PO’d at BOR….he’s a putz these days.

ted c on February 25, 2010 at 8:18 PM
He was on Fox and Friends this morning saying the government had to step in and do something about the “huge” profits the insurance companies are making. I had to do a double take. He has lost it and slid into the RINO pit because of his popus ego and the drive for ratings.

cobrakai99 on February 25, 2010 at 9:05 PM
Laura Ingraham is PO’d at BOR….he’s a putz these days.

ted c on February 25, 2010 at 8:18 PM
He was on Fox and Friends this morning saying the government had to step in and do something about the “huge” profits the insurance companies are making. I had to do a double take. He has lost it and slid into the RINO pit because of his popus ego and the drive for ratings.

cobrakai99 on February 25, 2010 at 9:05 PMLaura Ingraham is PO’d at BOR….he’s a putz these days.

ted c on February 25, 2010 at 8:18 PM
He was on Fox and Friends this morning saying the government had to step in and do something about the “huge” profits the insurance companies are making. I had to do a double take. He has lost it and slid into the RINO pit because of his popus ego and the drive for ratings.

cobrakai99 on February 25, 2010 at 9:05 PM

O’Really has the ego of Obama, the interviewing skills of Larry King in big interviews (Obama) and the creepiness of having to surround himself with good lookin chics and or Glenn Becxk who will soon be kickin his ass. He lost me whern he was railin about Gas company profits one month and moanin and groanin that no-one warned him about the market crash the next, He tries to get on the right side of popular setiment tro boast his credes therefore is a not credible panderer. The Fox network would be better served to switch him and John Stossel a real up and comer. relagate the has been to the business channel or CNN

dhunter on February 25, 2010 at 9:59 PM

Wow! GOP proved their skeptics wrong and put in an awesome performance!

GOP is the party of “Hell No!” to ObamaCare!

sarahpalinfan99 on February 25, 2010 at 10:02 PM

Sorry about the triple copy above not sure how it happened.

The GOP had better get Limbaughs tapes of about 8 top Dems including Dingy and O’Biden railking against rec onciliation on Judges. It was hallarious and would hammer a nail in the coffin of that apoproach to see those lyin clowns just screamin against it then and beggin for a Majority takeover of 1/6 of the economy now. Funny and very effective!

dhunter on February 25, 2010 at 10:02 PM

Random Numbers (Brian Epps) on February 25, 2010 at 10:15 PM
Awesome!

dhunter on February 25, 2010 at 10:25 PM

Can someone with an accurate pessimism meter ’splain to me any holes in this?

http://www.redstate.com/dan_perrin/2010/02/25/sen-conrad-the-house-goes-first-or-obamacare-dies-thank-you-senator-demint/

RachDubya on February 25, 2010 at 8:59 PM

“I don’t know of any way, I don’t know of any way where you can have a reconciliation bill pass before the bill that it is meant to reconcile passes,” said Conrad

Leave it to the ‘Rats to get the Cart before the Jackass.

2ipa on February 25, 2010 at 10:39 PM

This may sound overly optimistic, but this event could prove a serious blow to Obama. In almost every way he came out reduced. This is something he cannot afford, as the last year has been a series of reductions via overexposure. It was his idea, a grand gesture in the pursuit of bipartisanship, yet his performance was circumspect and even chippy, as if, one, he didn’t really want to be there and two, was trying to delimit and control the conversation rather than open it up. He used a lot of professorial stock phrases meant to reaffirm judicious respect for differing opinions but these came off as lazy, insincere brush-offs. He was not crisp or commanding. In the end, there was no result at all, as if he wasted everybody’s time. His epilogue to the whole thing, that he’ll try to pass the bill anyway like it or not, came far too quickly after the proceedings and made a mockery of it all.

To the average American tuning in, what was there to admire?

rrpjr on February 25, 2010 at 10:46 PM

He was on Fox and Friends this morning saying the government had to step in and do something about the “huge” profits the insurance companies are making. I had to do a double take. He has lost it and slid into the RINO pit because of his popus ego and the drive for ratings.

cobrakai99 on February 25, 2010 at 9:05 PM

I’ve never heard O’Reilly say he was republican. Independent yes, but not Republican. However, since Obama’s election, he has slipped comfortably it seems, into a water carrier. Chastizing Reid, and Pelosi, but always giving Obama a pass. He seems to want to help prop up Obama.

Anyone else notice when Kilmead asked O’Reilly a question this morning, he dismissed Brian, by saying he didn’t understand Kilmeads question? Then Michelle comes on, Malkin that is, and tells Brian she knew exactly what he meant, and Brian gave a look that read….stupid O’Reilly. LOL

I’ve no idea where O’Reilly is, but his fair, and balanced seems really tilted lately.

capejasmine on February 25, 2010 at 10:50 PM

His epilogue to the whole thing, that he’ll try to pass the bill anyway like it or not, came far too quickly after the proceedings and made a mockery of it all.

rrpjr on February 25, 2010 at 10:46 PM

Yes.

KittyLowrey on February 25, 2010 at 11:36 PM

Of course, Republicans have been just as callous: their bill doesn’t really expand coverage and rests on questionable policy premises, something that the president — probably really the smartest guy in the room — was at ease to point out, repeatedly. (Dozens of good Republican ideas were adopted by the Senate and the President; the thrust of both bills — a market-based insurance exchange — is a conservative idea).

- Ambinder

Laff. Must be Hitler’s “big lie” theory.

misterpeasea on February 25, 2010 at 11:42 PM

rrpjr on February 25, 2010 at 10:46 PM

When has the One been crisp and commanding?

AshleyTKing on February 25, 2010 at 11:51 PM

He was on Fox and Friends this morning saying the government had to step in and do something about the “huge” profits the insurance companies are making. I had to do a double take. He has lost it and slid into the RINO pit because of his popus ego and the drive for ratings.
cobrakai99 on February 25, 2010 at 9:05 PM

I’m pretty sure he’s trying to score another Obama interview. If he constantly slams Barry, then that’s not going to happen. I think it really irks O’Reilly that he’s only scored one Barry interview (or is it two?), when that softball lobbing asshat on CBS, Harry Whatsisname, has done at least five.

WarEagle01 on February 25, 2010 at 11:59 PM

TOWNHALL.COM/BLOG

Really tired of this.

Ortzinator on February 26, 2010 at 12:04 AM

I was watching a little bit of the spin on NPR, they had a gal from WaPo, and a gal from Time on the panel with them, and the meme there was, nothing new, no news. And so for them it was a draw. I was yelling, “Nothing new? For the whole health care debate, the Repubs have had ‘no ideas,’ ‘no plan,’ and have been ‘the party of No,’ as recently as SOTUS. Now all of a sudden they have plans, philosophical differences, etc. That’s not new? It’s a freakin earthquake!’” The Republicans really helped themselves today because now they have put that meme to bed for good and all. And if they are a party with ideas, then they are going to be a party worth taking some time to look at for people. Big trouble for the Dems.

smellthecoffee on February 26, 2010 at 12:15 AM

BOR is a bore. I gave up on the egomanical twit months ago. Even when I agreed with him I didn’t like him and felt soiled somehow. One man’s opinion.

Mason on February 26, 2010 at 12:19 AM

You’re the Bomb for posting that link canop-awesome!

huskerdiva on February 25, 2010 at 9:14 PM

huskerdiva:)

canopfor on February 26, 2010 at 12:42 AM

Even? Seriously.

The Republicans were great!

Obama was caught lying over and over… not to mention Reid and all the others!

petunia on February 26, 2010 at 1:44 AM

Dems brought nothing new and they can’t even agree amongst themselves.

This was a complete disaster for Zero. He appeared directionless, petty and unsure of the facts. He was an arrogant mouthpiece spouting the same ideas Americans have already emphatically rejected.

Mr Purple on February 26, 2010 at 3:55 AM

Gergen should be pickled and slightly change his name.

Obama did not do a good job at the meeting so don`t sell us that crap, brine-skull Gergen!

Here I am reduced to name calling just like the dems and libs.

Shame on me.

I am sinking lower every day as my patience wears negative thin.

Sherman1864 on February 26, 2010 at 6:58 AM

This is why the media love the democrats: they’re all about corruption, incompetence, and show business. The republicans, while boring news stories because they’re all about getting down to business without all the extra theatrics and sneaky deals, you can trust to get the job done at least(that is if not sabotaged by the democrats).

mozalf on February 26, 2010 at 8:32 AM

David Gergen on the summit: Republicans had their best day in years

It’s felt like Christmas to me for months!

Blake on February 26, 2010 at 8:43 AM

Well, it was a setup, and I thought the GOP would come out of it as damaged goods. Judging from this morning’s coverage, I was wrong, happy to say.

When David Rodham Gergen and the rest of the lefty media call it a draw, you know the GOP did well, real well (for a change). Thanks especially to Alexander, Ryan, McCain, Camp, and Coburn.

Oh, and thanks to you too, Barry, for being your usual arrogant, shallow, prickly self.

petefrt on February 26, 2010 at 9:03 AM

Michael Ramirez’s take on yesterday warned my heart.

The GOP did their homework, assembled all the right tools and walked in ready to rumble.

Oobaka and the ‘rats, PR-wise, got their @sses handed to them.

Note to the ‘rats’: yes, by all means show the electorate that you don’t give a sh!t what they think [or want].

See you in November.

To the trolls: bring it.

CPT. Charles on February 26, 2010 at 9:14 AM

The One came across like The Zero. It was nothing short of pathetic. Kudos to the Repubs who finally discovered you can bitch-slap the prom king and people like it. All The One’s horses and all the One’s men must be spending all this morning picking up pieces and shards of his glass jaw.

Oh, a disclaimer: I didn’t watch any of it. Didn’t need to. The tea leaves, ahem, were aligned.

MaxMBJ on February 26, 2010 at 9:15 AM

Shoot . . .

. . . warned warmed my heart

More coffee, need more coffee. :(

CPT. Charles on February 26, 2010 at 9:16 AM

Wow, if even Gergen knows that Republicans walked away with the advantage yesterday, that’s big news. The guy normally couldn’t see anything breaking in Republicans’ favor even if it broke across his face.

t.ferg on February 26, 2010 at 9:29 AM

The Won has spent his entire life preaching to the choir. His audience has always been people who are dumb enough to actually believe that he’ll give them all the stuff he promises. When he suddenly finds himself surrounded by people who don’t believe that and who are literally a lot more intelligent than he is he’s bound to come across as the dumbest kid on the block….because he is.

Oldnuke on February 26, 2010 at 9:31 AM

The One came across like The Zero. It was nothing short of pathetic. Kudos to the Repubs who finally discovered you can bitch-slap the prom king and people like it.

MaxMBJ on February 26, 2010 at 9:15 AM

They’ve known it all along, this is the first time they’ve been able to get him into a venue where they could illustrate it. Remember the republicans have been excluded from everything for the last year or so.

Oldnuke on February 26, 2010 at 9:34 AM

CPT. Charles on February 26, 2010 at 9:14 AM

Who is RR in the cartoon?

angryed on February 26, 2010 at 9:41 AM

Who is RR in the cartoon?

angryed on February 26, 2010 at 9:41 AM

You’re kidding, right?

Count to 10 on February 26, 2010 at 9:56 AM

O’Reilly is near total butt boy for Obama. He is deathly afraid of criticizing him because he wants to avoid being called racist.

georgealbert on February 26, 2010 at 9:56 AM

angryed on February 26, 2010 at 9:41 AM

The Ronald Reagan.

I guess you missed the label: ‘Reykjavik’ on the building.

Either that, or you’re one of those ‘young shavers’ who missed the documentary. ;-)

CPT. Charles on February 26, 2010 at 10:01 AM

I love that Ramirez cartoon—— Michael Ramirez, strong work sir.

ted c on February 26, 2010 at 10:02 AM

Could you hear those four other jaws dropping open when Gergen said that yesterday…? Whoa, youda thunk that Roe v Wade just got overturned or something…..

Pins dropping.

ted c on February 26, 2010 at 10:04 AM

The GOP oughta be calling for more “summits,” which they wouldn’t do had Obooba tuned em up.

Notice that the Dems are not calling for more summits, like they did after Baltimore.

Akzed on February 26, 2010 at 10:10 AM

O’Reilly is near total butt boy for Obama. He is deathly afraid of criticizing him because he wants to avoid being called racist.

georgealbert on February 26, 2010 at 9:56 AM

He just wants that much coveted FNC interview from Teh One – it’s really kind of pathetic.

redridinghood on February 26, 2010 at 10:12 AM

He just wants that much coveted FNC interview from Teh One – it’s really kind of pathetic.

redridinghood on February 26, 2010 at 10:12 AM

Nail on the head! And it’s not kind of pathetic, it’s really pathetic. Bill O lost me with the dissing of Michelle by Giraldo. He’s an egotistic a..hole. Nothing more.

donh525 on February 26, 2010 at 10:22 AM

Al, I miss Michelle already also: video links not working on site pages, what’s a pwnag3, or a Lottt? What’s going on?

michaltl on February 26, 2010 at 10:38 AM

Evened the score and kept it even

You have got to be kidding, they cleaned the dems clocks. The dems looked like deer in the headlights.
It wasn’t the “Republicans” best day, it was the TRUTHS best day. This bill finally, finally, finally, is beginning to see some daylight, and it is worse then most of the public has been exposed to.
This is why they didn’t want town hall meetings, televised on C-Span, open dialog…and why they insisted on early morning, “secret” votes…

right2bright on February 26, 2010 at 10:43 AM

O’Reilly is unraveling. Diseased ego. Needs to prove he’s above and better than rabble like Beck, et al, and so he over-compensates with Obama. Now he’s losing audience.

rrpjr on February 26, 2010 at 10:49 AM

rrpjr on February 26, 2010 at 10:49 AM

He lost me whinin about oil co profits and that no-one warned him about the market implosion. Well Bill a guy as smart as you should have warned us.
He’s a pathetic suckup and panderer of the first order and bringin two good lookin chics on every night to bolster his rating is creepy kinda like Mccain hangin on Palins skirttails during his failed candidacy.

the loser Oreally is gonna get creamed by Beck send him and Whorealdo to the business channel and bring Stossel into his spot.

dhunter on February 26, 2010 at 11:12 AM

Of course, Republicans have been just as callous: their bill doesn’t really expand coverage and rests on questionable policy premises, something that the president — probably really the smartest guy in the room — was at ease to point out, repeatedly. (Dozens of good Republican ideas were adopted by the Senate and the President; the thrust of both bills — a market-based insurance exchange — is a conservative idea).

- Ambinder

Um….

Paul Ryan:

Ryan is a graduate of Joseph A. Craig High School in Janesville and earned a degree in economics and political science from Miami University in Ohio where he was a member of Delta Tau Delta Fraternity. He has worked in the private sector as an economic analyst and previously served as president of his own consulting firm.

Not only does Paul Ryan have double degrees in economics and political science, he actually earned a living as an economist and owned his own economics consulting firm. Barack Obama never owned an actual business, and everything he ran was given to him and produced nothing. I seriously doubt he could hold a candle to Paul Ryan in terms of sheer brainpower. And Ryan is a better politician than Obama to boot.

rockmom on February 26, 2010 at 11:39 AM

I was unable to watch yesterday. Does any know whether any Republican mentioned the number of additional government boards and panels, or that Congress itself is exempt from what the dems propose to inflict on the public?

GaltBlvnAtty on February 26, 2010 at 11:40 AM

And can we PLEASE dispense with this BS that a government-run health insurance exchange is a Republican or conservative idea? This is a huge talking point on the Left and it is cimpletely unsupported by actual facts. A truly free market in health insurance would not NEED a government-run exchange. The exchange envisioned by the Democrats is much more than just a government-sponsored marketplace; it is a regulatory body that has the power to decide what insurance policies must cover in order to be allowed into the exchange. That isn’t even in the same universe as a conservative idea!

rockmom on February 26, 2010 at 11:44 AM

I thought the GOP did great, too.

I am perplexed by the pass on how Obama overtalked. It wasn’t a good moderation job, in my opinion. He was out of control.

Oh well. I guess everyone is sort of scared to challenge that’s his perogative, because “He’s the president.”

In my opinion, he blocked discussion with talking way too much. We’ve already heard his speeches. We were really interested in what the congresspeople had to say.

AnninCA on February 26, 2010 at 11:45 AM

And can we PLEASE dispense with this BS that a government-run health insurance exchange is a Republican or conservative idea? This is a huge talking point on the Left and it is cimpletely unsupported by actual facts. A truly free market in health insurance would not NEED a government-run exchange. The exchange envisioned by the Democrats is much more than just a government-sponsored marketplace; it is a regulatory body that has the power to decide what insurance policies must cover in order to be allowed into the exchange. That isn’t even in the same universe as a conservative idea!

rockmom on February 26, 2010 at 11:44 AM

We have “free market” now. It really sucks, too.

AnninCA on February 26, 2010 at 11:46 AM

My Congressman (Culberson-TX) loves to say the left can’t win in a fair fight. He’s right.

And this was the first fair fight I’ve seen in a long, long time. The Donks got their asses handed to them.

Dominion on February 26, 2010 at 11:50 AM

We have “free market” now. It really sucks, too.

AnninCA on February 26, 2010 at 11:46 AM

No, Ann, we don’t. If we had a truly free market, I could tailor my health insurance to what I actually need instead of having to accept the one-size-fits-all coverage my employer offers. And in a truly free market, I would be able to carry that tailor-made coverage with me wherever I wanted.

Dominion on February 26, 2010 at 11:52 AM

Well, I totally enjoyed it. I do give Obama kudos for agreeing to do this.

It was really, really interesting. I didn’t buy all the numbers the GOP whipped out. I didn’t buy all the emotionalism the Dems whipped out.

I did absolutely come away with a bit more respect for Congress. They aren’t as dumb as the media presents daily.

I’d say it’s a win for Congress, a loss for the president (who absolutely doesn’t know how to get to a point), and a real win for Americans.

BTW, the number of people who tuned in, even on puter, was astounding!

AnninCA on February 26, 2010 at 11:55 AM

I was unable to watch yesterday. Does any know whether any Republican mentioned the number of additional government boards and panels, or that Congress itself is exempt from what the dems propose to inflict on the public?

GaltBlvnAtty on February 26, 2010 at 11:40 AM

To my knowledge, they didn’t. They had on their green eye-shades the whole time. They lacked imagination and missed endless opportunities.

rrpjr on February 26, 2010 at 11:55 AM

No, Ann, we don’t. If we had a truly free market, I could tailor my health insurance to what I actually need instead of having to accept the one-size-fits-all coverage my employer offers. And in a truly free market, I would be able to carry that tailor-made coverage with me wherever I wanted.

Dominion on February 26, 2010 at 11:52 AM

I never get this argument. The entire idea of insurance is to pool risks.

If you get to cherry-pick, then you’re not pooling at all. What happens to people with clear disabilities? They are outta options.

That really is what’s happening. Too many real people with real family members are experiencing just that today.

The gig is up.

AnninCA on February 26, 2010 at 11:57 AM

breaking New Post Obama Appoints SEIU Union Boss Andy Stern to Deficit Commission http://tiny.cc/ulCsm

Anti-Harkonnen Freedom Fighter on February 26, 2010 at 11:57 AM

BTW, I’m not at all opposed to cherry-picking your own level of deductibles and/or other limitations.

That would seem very fair. You want outta pocket expenses up to whatever, your choice.

AnninCA on February 26, 2010 at 11:59 AM

David Rodham Gergen

SouthernGent on February 25, 2010 at 8:18 PM

LOL…never gets old

Missy on February 26, 2010 at 12:21 PM

The exchange envisioned by the Democrats is much more than just a government-sponsored marketplace; it is a regulatory body that has the power to decide what insurance policies must cover in order to be allowed into the exchange. That isn’t even in the same universe as a conservative idea!

rockmom on February 26, 2010 at 11:44 AM

Thank you – true and well said. I’m sure Jimbo3 will be along soon to tell you that you’re wrong.

Missy on February 26, 2010 at 12:24 PM

American Power tracked-back with, ‘Blair House Reject: No Deal at Health Summit’.

Donald Douglas on February 26, 2010 at 12:34 PM

I never get this argument. The entire idea of insurance is to pool risks. If you get to cherry-pick, then you’re not pooling at all. What happens to people with clear disabilities? They are outta options.

AnninCA on February 26, 2010 at 11:57 AM

This tells me that you really don’t understand how insurance is supposed to work, Ann. A pre-existing condition is not a “risk”, it is a certainty. You cannot establish a pooled risk on something that is guaranteed to happen. All you have then is a prepayment plan.

Insurance “works” as a kind of wager against the possibility of some future outcomes. Using insurance, the relatively low percentage of high-cost events which will (actuarially) happen to some number of people in a pool is balanced against the number of people in that pool. The lower the risk of a given event happening to any one person, the lower the average cost can be made.

If it’s a guarantee that someone is going to have a particular high-cost event in the future, you can’t meaningfully “insure” against it. Since the chance of it happening is 100%, the lowest possible set of premiums that make economic sense is 100% of the cost (plus the overhead expenses of processing, etc).

That’s not insurance. That’s a pre-payment plan.

The type of “cherry picking” described, however, has nothing to do with what you described. It is, instead, a set of much smaller and more tailored wagers against particular individual outcomes, instead of some larger omnibus policy. Each person who chooses individual components of health insurance coverage is participating in multiple pools, each of which are much more narrowly targeted. In many cases, this makes it easier to accurately predict the aggregate future incomes, and the insurance companies can lower rates due to a reduced risk of substantial deviation from expectations.

This makes perfect economic sense to the two parties in the transaction: the individual who wants the insurance, and the company providing it.

What it doesn’t do is create any kind of “social justice” or redistributive effects in the name of some kind of pursuit of “fairness”.

But that’s not the economic function of insurance. Insurance is designed to smooth out the economic impact of risks, not the economic impact of certainties.

If you want to force healthy people to pay the bills of unhealthy people, or the young to pay for the bills of the old, in the name of “fairness”, just say so. People can then react to your proposal accordingly.

But using “insurance” in such a way that it cannot possibly function economically is not intellectually honest. It is simply a smoke-screen for enforcing a desired set of outcomes without actually having to say that’s what you’re trying to do.

VekTor on February 26, 2010 at 1:19 PM

Doh! “Aggregate future incomes” should read “Aggregate future outcomes“. Silly rabbit!

VekTor on February 26, 2010 at 1:20 PM

Not only does Paul Ryan have double degrees in economics and political science, he actually earned a living as an economist and owned his own economics consulting firm. Barack Obama never owned an actual business, and everything he ran was given to him and produced nothing. I seriously doubt he could hold a candle to Paul Ryan in terms of sheer brainpower. And Ryan is a better politician than Obama to boot.

rockmom on February 26, 2010 at 11:39 AM

Ryan was very impressive. Stated facts and figures calmly and very clearly. In total command. Obama was NOT please. ::: evil grin :::

Kirin on February 26, 2010 at 1:21 PM

*pleased

FIFM

::: sigh :::

Kirin on February 26, 2010 at 1:22 PM

AnninCA on February 26, 2010 at 11:59 AM

I’m not an expert on health care costs, but haven’t you ever considered how much the govt programs of Meidcare/caid have distorted the health care market?
There is so much fraud & waste associated with these programs.
I imagine health care costs would be lower if the govt didn’t have its fingers in the pie.
People also don’t need to go to the dr as much as they do.
Preventative health only gives so many benefits in certain areas.
A lot of this wellness crap that’s getting pushed is wasteful.
I do not need to go get a ‘wellness’ exam to determine how to take care of myself.

Badger40 on February 26, 2010 at 1:37 PM

What it doesn’t do is create any kind of “social justice” or redistributive effects in the name of some kind of pursuit of “fairness”.

But that’s not the economic function of insurance. Insurance is designed to smooth out the economic impact of risks, not the economic impact of certainties.

If you want to force healthy people to pay the bills of unhealthy people, or the young to pay for the bills of the old, in the name of “fairness”, just say so. People can then react to your proposal accordingly.

But using “insurance” in such a way that it cannot possibly function economically is not intellectually honest. It is simply a smoke-screen for enforcing a desired set of outcomes without actually having to say that’s what you’re trying to do.

VekTor on February 26, 2010 at 1:19 PM

Nicely put!
Good health is a function of genetics & personal habits.
If you cannot affort to set a broken leg, do not participate in risky behavior.
If bad genetics & luck gets you cancer, this is unfortunate, but no one else’s responsibility but you & your family’s.
But this is where communities & charities should be stepping in.
Here in rural ND everytime someone gets down with a disease or gets injured, there are multiple fundraisers & donation drives.
People make it possible by helping each other when someone is down on their luck.
I believe Bush understood this function of churches.
It is not the govt’s responsibility to be charitable with other people’s $$.

Badger40 on February 26, 2010 at 1:42 PM

VekTor on February 26, 2010 at 1:19 PM

Thankyou for a good explaination of insurance and why there cannot be coverage for pre-existing conditions.
Its as simple as taking an already wrecked and uninsured car to your agent and asking to buy coverage and him and all his (unwrecked) insureds to pay for the repairs. He will call the men in white coats for you or laugh you out of his office.

The coverage for pre-existing conditions exists already and is called Medicaid! In order to qualify and have the taxpayers, doctors, hospitals pay your bills though you don’t get to keep all your toys and cash assets. You have to pay first before government makes everyone else pick up your bills!

dhunter on February 26, 2010 at 1:47 PM

Oh, don’t get me wrong! I’m not saying that there isn’t a good social reason for helping to offset some of the costs that are incurred by those who are less fortunate… but I do wish to be clear that this is charity, rather than social justice.

We are a nation of extremely charitable people. We are willing to give a lot to help others, including helping a great many who we do not know and will never know.

But our impulse to want to help others should not be exploited in order to forcibly take from us, in order to give to them, and to chastise us through the whole process!

Forced and unwilling charity is theft, pure and simple.

VekTor on February 26, 2010 at 1:57 PM

The Washington Independent: Why Rand Paul is Winning

I challenge anyone to watch his closing comments, and still say they do not want Rand Paul in the senate.

Spathi on February 26, 2010 at 2:20 PM

Its as simple as taking an already wrecked and uninsured car to your agent and asking to buy coverage and him and all his (unwrecked) insureds to pay for the repairs. He will call the men in white coats for you or laugh you out of his office.

dhunter on February 26, 2010 at 1:47 PM

This is essentially what Obama complained about when he said his ACME Insurance company laughed at him when he wanted them to pay for an accident when he was 1) rear-ended by another driver who was at fault and the other insurance company should pay for Obama’s repairs, and 2) he was covered only for liability (the legal min.) and not collision. He does not understand insurance and the resulting ignorance leads to destructive rather than constructive policies.

jerseyman on February 26, 2010 at 2:44 PM

I challenge anyone to watch his closing comments, and still say they do not want Rand Paul in the senate.

Spathi on February 26, 2010 at 2:20 PM

He wouldn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell, if he said half the kooky stuff his old man says. Ron Paul gets to stay in the House, because he brings home the pork. Who knows why the good people of Kentucky would want fruitloop junior?

chunderroad on February 26, 2010 at 5:29 PM

Smarmy Gergen should make it clear that it is the left winged, government sponsored CNN and others like them that kept the real truth from the American voters. It is treasonous and Gergen is part of the 5th column that does give a rat’s butt about this country.

wepeople on February 26, 2010 at 7:23 PM

Obama would have been better off serving beers and getting everyone shitfaced. In vino veritas. Maybe we would have gotten to some rock bottom truths if everyone was loaded to the gills.

That’s the best observation made yet!

why the media love the democrats: they’re all about corruption, incompetence, and show business. The republicans, while boring news stories because they’re all about getting down to business without all the extra theatrics and sneaky deals, you can trust to get the job done at least

Yes, trust to add $4 trillion to the national debt while flushing enough cash into the economy to make sure that when the party ended, it would crash hard. Real competence.

bayam on February 26, 2010 at 9:18 PM

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