The point of being annoyed with Glenn Beck
posted at 3:43 pm on February 24, 2010 by CK MacLeod
In a post at the Optimistic Conservative, also featured on the HotAir main page, our friend and colleague J.E. Dyer asks, “What’s the point of being annoyed with Glenn Beck?” Obviously, J.E. is asking the question rhetorically, in order to respond to conservative criticisms of Beck that have been launched since his CPAC keynote speech: Her post actually tells us why we should be pleased with Beck, and I agree with most of what she says in it.
But I think her question deserves an answer.
It was, of course, William Bennett, writing over the weekend at NRO, who first spoke up loudly and incisively in reaction to Beck’s performance at CPAC. He focused on one of Beck’s customary themes:
To say the GOP and the Democrats are no different, to say the GOP needs to hit a recovery-program-type bottom and hang its head in remorse, is to delay our own country’s recovery from the problems the Democratic left is inflicting. The stakes are too important to go through that kind of exercise, which will ultimately go nowhere anyway…
Jonah Goldberg replied at NRO along somewhat the same lines as J.E., stressing that, if Beck may have overdone things, it was to motivate the troops and scare the wayward straight. Soon, however, Peter Wehner was joining his colleague Jennifer Rubin to second Bennett, and in addition was raising the ante: “If Glenn Beck were the future of conservatism,” he wrote, “it would become a discredited movement.”
Wehner went on to disclaim much concern about either part of that proposition, but, by the beginning of the week, both Rush Limbaugh and Mark Levin were each worried enough to devote significant attention both on- and off-air to Beck and his arguments. Levin’s Facebook entry was particularly cutting, concluding with this stark assessment of Beck’s “third way” politics: “These are perilous times and this kind of approach will keep the statists in power for decades.” Some have suggested that Levin’s dislike for Beck is personal, or based on professional jealousy, and similar attacks have been made on his other critics, but these are serious and substantive arguments, and they go well beyond mere annoyance.
So the answer to the amplified question might be this: The point of expressing dismay with Glenn Beck is to get him to re-think his approach, or, failing that, to separate conservatism, at a crucial political moment, from his excesses.
You can be a fan of Glenn Beck’s – you might even be Glenn Beck himself – and acknowledge that his rhetoric is sometimes irresponsible. You can be thankful to Glenn Beck for his contributions to American conservatism – for helping to keep the political flame alive, even build it, during a bleakly dark time – and yet still wonder whether, going forward, his pet themes, favorite arguments, and customary stances aren’t counterproductive and divisive, where not embarrassing. In short, you can agree with everything J.E. wrote, yet still be concerned about the way that Glenn Beck habitually brings vindictive hatred and a self-destructive and dangerous extremism into conservative discourse.
As someone who at least halfway listens to Beck’s TV show almost every weekday, I well recognize that he and his fans are more used to getting this kind of thing from the likes of Arianna Huffington or Media Matters robots than from conservative bloggers. But please check the transcript of his CPAC speech (or cue the video to 5:20): Nearly the first words out of his mouth were “I have to tell you, I hate Woodrow Wilson with everything in me…” (emphasis added). Defenders of Beck’s will be quick to point out that the words were obviously offered in self-consciously exaggerated good humor, as you will see if you view the video, and note the smile on Beck’s face. Furthermore, he was jokingly responding to a specific statement from David Keene’s introduction, in which, while congratulating Beck for conduction a national political seminar, Keene referred to having written an article in college naming Wilson, along with Hitler and Lenin, as one of “the three most dangerous people of the 20th Century.”
Now, jesting about one’s hatred for a relatively remote historical figure, even a duly elected president, wouldn’t amount to much on its own – who cares how anyone feels about Millard Fillmore? – but any Beck viewer or listener knows that, hard as it may be for the uninitiated to believe, Beck is joking on the square here. Indeed, he has seemed obsessed with exposing a purported clear and very present danger of progressivism, which he identifies both with historical figures like Wilson, Theodore Roosevelt, and Margaret Sanger, and with modern day progressives like the Republican 2008 presidential candidate or our current Secretary of State. (If you happened to watch Beck’s hour-long New York harborscape interview with Sarah Palin, then you might recall her reluctance to respond to his anti-progressive spiel, especially when applied to her former running mate. Beck later described her demeanor as remarkably “guarded” – as against criticism from her legion of detractors. My personal opinion is that, though she likes Beck and wishes to appeal to his fans, her political antennae, and perhaps her common sense and personal decency, were functioning efficiently.)
When Beck inveighs hatefully against Woodrow Wilson, he’s also inveighing against John McCain, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, and many millions of other people, in both parties, and I would question the honesty of any regular Beck viewer who denied the evident fierceness of Beck’s feelings on this subject. If you think I’m exaggerating, then how do you explain away statements like the following, also from the CPAC keynote?
Progressivism is the cancer in America and it is eating our Constitution. And it was designed to eat the Constitution. To progress past the Constitution.
…and, again on cancer, while reacting to a statement of Theodore Roosevelt’s on income inequality:
[T]his is not our founders’ idea of America. And this is the cancer that’s eating at America.
(applause)
It is big government – it’s a socialist utopia. And we need to address it as if it is a cancer. It must be cut out of the system because they cannot co-exist. And you don’t cure cancer by – well, I’m just going to give you a little bit of cancer. You must eradicate it. It cannot co-exist. And we need big thinkers, and brave people with spines who can make the case – that can actually say to Americans: look it’s going to be hard – it’s going to be hard but it’s going to be okay. We’re going to make it.
This kind of language is not just exaggerated (and cliché): It’s pure demagogy, and it’s dehumanizing. Beck’s delivery and self-deprecation take the edge off… and I’ll now refrain from making the kind of historical reference that I tend to doubt Beck himself, in my place, would resist – much. I’ll just ask you to imagine the above with a few exclamation points, hand gestures, and a throbbing throng of the newly educated – live and in person, not across a warm TV screen.
Even before we look at progressivism and decide which features we can and should do without, and which not, at least anytime soon, short of Apocalypse or Harmonic Convergence; before we consider realistic prospects and priorities; before we look up Burke or Kirk or Goldwater or Reagan or whichever gospels in search of first principles; before we even know whether we’re attacking 100 years of policy or 100 years of thinking, or perhaps, in fact, an outlook exactly as old as human civilization and integral to it; before we ask ourselves whether the Founders, or Lincoln, or the Greatest Generation, or Reagan, weren’t in critical regards the progressive revolutionaries or evolutionaries of their day; before we ask whether Glenn Beck himself isn’t advocating a totalized utopian crusade against a social ill he calls progressivism; before we ask whether the absolute eradication and uncompromising, social-political surgical extirpation of a creed or ideology can ever be an American, a democratic and republican, project – we can say one thing with certainty about a perspective that defines the enemies among our fellow citizens and the terms of the struggle as Beck’s (often) does:
It’s not conservative.
cross-posted at Zombie Contentions
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I raised two daughters and they turned out quite well and are raising their own children and doing a good job so far. That being said members of Congress are not children and should not expect praise in any form other than re-election. If they do something right it was their job to do it in the first place.
thomasaur on February 24, 2010 at 6:43 PM
Glenn plays all the characters in the TragicComedy of his view of our Democracy. The stirring firebrands, the oafish loafers, the hectoring backbenchers, the mewling kiddies, the dogs peeing on the platforms edge, the fainting schoolmarms, the would be demogogues, the skeptical scene painters behind the flats… all of them.
It’s his schtick. And gift.
He even gets confused by it all as he is swept along by his own rhetorical flourishes and theatrical embellishments.
Which he often acknowledges.
You have to hear it with a shaker of salt and a steady sense of humor.
He’s not Thomas Paine.
He’s Tommy Pain-in-their-Butt.
And Obama and his pimps need someone like Beck whirling like a hard-to-hit dervish and chipping away at their styrofoam Utopia.
profitsbeard on February 24, 2010 at 6:49 PM
I’d go along with, “one is jogging and the other is sprinting”.
FloatingRock on February 24, 2010 at 6:52 PM
Can you then explain how and why Republican representatives lose elections for being RINOs while their Democrat opponents are rewarded with being elected or re-elected when the Democrats have been the primary perpetrators of Progressivism/Socialism/Leftism for the last 100 years?
There is a different standard for Republicans than there is for Democrats–which demagogues like Beck only perpetuate–and it has got to stop!
Beck didn’t lay on a finger on the Democrats in his speech.
Rush did in his critique of Beck.
This, we, the people, can work with.
Beck’s unfocused rage, we can’t.
Jenfidel on February 24, 2010 at 6:53 PM
I cannot, in any way, see the GOP of the past decade, or even the decade before that, as such a staunch character.
If they were as potent and tour-de-force as you envision them, they likely would have remained in power. And if they are being pummeled down by media criticism, that only reinforces the notion that they’re buckling to the wrong side and are not fulfilling their purpose.
KinleyArdal on February 24, 2010 at 6:54 PM
There are just so days, more often than not, where Glen tries to come across like his is the True Voice of Reason and Sensibility, and instead, he comes across like he is the 2nd Coming of Mort Downey Jr.
And for those who remember Mort, you know what I’m talking about!
pilamaye on February 24, 2010 at 6:56 PM
All this handwringing over Beck is wasteful. If you’re mad because he’s not trumpeting the GOP, then you haven’t paid attention to him and missed his message. Beck is holding both parties feet to the fire, exposing the hidden corruptness of both parties and educating the American public so they can do it themselves. He’s not in it to endorse a party/candidate. He’s teaching Americans their history. He’s teaching us to stand up and run or stand up and support someone who’s running. He’s trying to revive the Founders’ principles, instead of the establishment politicians.
Forgive me if I don’t stamp my feet because he beats up on Repubs. He beats up on Dems too. This just shows what a thin skin the Right has and we need to get over it.
Oh and to the writer, “hateful and extreme” rhetoric? Out of Glenn? Are you nuts?! When Glenn starts cheering and laughing over a pol being hospitalized or questioning whether a child is really the child of a famous pol, then I’ll consider him being hateful and extreme. Your column is reckless.
vai2112 on February 24, 2010 at 6:56 PM
I just got finished watching Glenn on Fox. With his chalk board explaining things, even a caveman could understand what is happening to our country. He does this day on day and if you watch, you will learn!
L
letget on February 24, 2010 at 7:01 PM
Get a sense of humor, Beck-haters.
Honestly, it’s back-biting, purist drivel like this that makes me think there’s no such thing as actual conservatives who really believe in Individualism.
If I wanted my opinion handed to me… I’d be a liberal.
Murf76 on February 24, 2010 at 7:04 PM
…good.
…anyway, is you point that Beck’s not viewed as “civilized” enough?
…good. Ever been bitten by a lapdog? You probably don’t remember…they’re too civilized to make an impression….
…there’s been entirely too much of this “the honorable gentleman from North Carolina” crap, when you mean “the lying bastard who’s trying to squeeze pork out of your highway bill”, for entirely too long. Professional courtesy has no place in politics…on air or on the floor of the legislature…because it shouldn’t BE a profession….
So, good on Mr. Beck…and Woodrow Wilson was a slimy, racist, conspiratorial, arrogant rat bastard every day he drew breath….
…oooooo…cleansing….
Puritan1648 on February 24, 2010 at 7:04 PM
…very telling choice of words, and very accurate in this case…you can be conservative, but you must be civil…even with collectivist scumwads who spent eight years insisting the Mr. Bush was Hitler (when they weren’t making movies about his being assasinated)…and don’t anybody bore me with that old chestnut about “we don’t want to act like them“, a line usually delivered with ones pinky extended…I think that a little scruffy, old-fashioned finger-pointing is in order…after all…from Berkley to Berkley-on-the-Potomac, they want to “fundamentally transform” my bloody home!
Puritan1648 on February 24, 2010 at 7:09 PM
If the Republican’s in the House and Senate need to be made to feel good about what they have done then they should ask their spouses for a happy ending. The press is here to hold their noses to the grindstone and their feet to the fire.
thomasaur on February 24, 2010 at 7:11 PM
Whereas I’m much more hopeful about the future and don’t want to pass by the opportunity being presented to us. After Carter we got Reagan. Obama is Carter x 2, and the Democrat’s overreach is paving the way for Reagan x 2. With the help of Beck and the tea party, which he had far more to do with than Rush or Levin, we can help ensure it happens. Carrying the water even further than we would have otherwise.
Unfortunately a number of people are panicking and short circuiting the backlash to Obamunism and stop the pendulum in its tracks, trying to give us yet another squishy RINO in place of Reagan x 2.
It’s when you reach bottom when you have the most to gain.
FloatingRock on February 24, 2010 at 7:11 PM
FIFM
FloatingRock on February 24, 2010 at 7:12 PM
Beck’s ultimate point is that we must keep our representatives accountable. I think he goes overboard on the “It’s not just the Democrats” bit in an overzealous effort to be fair. His point of view is conservative and generally favors Republican candidates. If one cannot comprehend that, then said person is probably retar…oops, I almost went there.
pugwriter on February 24, 2010 at 7:12 PM
Exactly. If you can’t work up any passion about issues that directly affect your family, your children’s future, before you’re ‘boiled like a frog’, it’s not like you’ll be free to do so after.
Murf76 on February 24, 2010 at 7:18 PM
The left has been saying that about Rush’s audience for ages. Nobody here is going to buy that.
FloatingRock on February 24, 2010 at 7:19 PM
But Beck’s audience isn’t as intelligent as Rush’s.
thomasaur on February 24, 2010 at 7:21 PM
For those of you who think Beck is overselling the Progressivism theme, I recommend that you get involved in local government, especially if you live in a metropolitan area. Progressivism/collectivism, socialism, whatever you want to call it, is a cancer and it is eating away at our individual liberties.
Don’t believe me? For starters, check into your city website for information on Asset Based Community Development and your local Redevelopment Agency.
Cities are the petri dishes from which state and federal progressives are grown.
pugwriter on February 24, 2010 at 7:22 PM
…only if you’re brain shuts off when some verbal signal goes off in your head, or a bell goes off in you kennel.
I think he usually says that the Republicans are equally guilty, having had the majority in Congress for twelve years, and the White House for six of those years; and that we’d be wise to recognize that, as voters, the good guys don’t wear white hats, and aren’t all in one party.
In short, I think that the message is that the nation, and conservatism, is more than a party.
…and, once again, if you’re hearing that, you need to get yourself down to Sam’s Club, buy a king-hell size box of Q-Tips, and clean the dust elephants out of your ears.
If I had a dime for every time he said the word “progressives”, and then pointed to their being ensconced in both parties, I’d be able to retire. It’s nearly his favorite word.
Try listening less casually….
…and I’m replying to this post at all because of this paragraph. This is the most infamous thing I’ve seen online in quite some time.
Have kids? Ever have someone swan over and give you unsolicited advice about how you’re ruining your kids’ future? Like it?
What to pontificate about Mr. Beck and conservatism and all that rot? Well, Sunny Jim, get this little bit of constitutional conservatism into your brain-housing group (if it’ll fit): the phrase “leave me the hell alone”.
Try that magic mantra on the next bureaucrat you meet. Try it with the next busybody PTA member who rubs up against you, talking all out of their nose, sniffing like a bloodhound with a headcold, about how your kids are just not like their little angels. Try preparing yourself to hear it the next time you drop that sort of a wisdom-pearl on any parent, particularly any American parent…most particularly any South Texas parent. You’ll be lucky if you’re only told off, in either English or Spanish!
Just like the Mafia, families are off limits…or should be. Parenting is the toughest job on the planet. Your first paragraph got me to thinking that you have aural comprehension issues…so if this wasn’t clear, lemme know…I’ll shout….
Puritan1648 on February 24, 2010 at 7:25 PM
I agree that it’s better only to the extent that instead of diminishing the freedom and liberty of the entire nation, it’s only diminished the freedom and liberty of the citizens of one state, not my own.
But I don’t like either.
FloatingRock on February 24, 2010 at 7:25 PM
JimP, I was not dissing your comment. Thanks for your reply!!!!!
mobydutch on February 24, 2010 at 7:28 PM
redevelopment.com
pugwriter on February 24, 2010 at 7:28 PM
…got the stats on that, homey?
Is this a focused put-down, or just a general “the peasants are revolting” dismissal of those who don’t agree with you exactly.
It’s billed as The United States of America…it’s not the United States of Republican America, the Fundamentally Transformed States of America, or the United Soviets of America, to deal broadly with either left or right…I’m an equal opportunity blowhard….
Puritan1648 on February 24, 2010 at 7:30 PM
I was going to make a similar point the other day but decided against it, especially considering the petty way Rush and especially Levin have been attacking Beck, because I prefer Beck remains independent.
FloatingRock on February 24, 2010 at 7:31 PM
Folk’s, step away from your computers and your politically plugged in crowd and engage in light political conversation with others. Listen to the anger and disgust aimed at the political class.
I followed my own advice and discussed light politics with folks I normally only discuss sports or business with. Got a great line out of it. “They should all have to spend at least as much time in prison as they did in Congress” Now that would really make folks shy away from spending 20 years in DC *grin*
When Bill at the bar feels this way about those in power, why is it surprising that somebody who makes a career of punditry would have noticed it as well? Today Rush had to fall back to comparing Pelosi to Cantor when he was getting pissy about folks agreeing with Beck. The folks he mentioned were better, I agree, but he failed to discuss the worthless ones in the middle. Look at the Senators from my state. Voinovich and Brown. Can you really see a real advantage of one over the other? Brown says dumber stuff but there truly isn’t a dimes worth of difference between the two. Hell I have gotten letters in response from both, and had there not been on letterhead I wouldn’t have been able to tell you which one had sent it.
These are the folks that I took GB to be railing against, the “rank and file” schlubs who lay low and check which way the wind is blowing in the press before every vote.
Nathan_OH on February 24, 2010 at 7:33 PM
I usually wouldn’t reply but I enjoy your stuff, it was snarky sarc. I don’t do sarc tags.
thomasaur on February 24, 2010 at 7:33 PM
What part of what GB said isn’t true? Progressivism/Socialism is a cancer, it is eating our Constitution.
BTW, your last paragraph is gibberish.
mrpeabody on February 24, 2010 at 7:35 PM
It’s a metaphor. I call my congress peeps and thank them when they do something I like. I want to encourage them to do more of that.
Relax, dude. I was making a point about being encouraging instead of always dwelling on the negative. You end up with better results that way. I have no idea what the “mafia” has to do with any of this.
The Massachusetts citizens overwhelmingly supported it at the time. If they don’t like it now they can repeal it. Try doing that on the federal level.
Buy Danish on February 24, 2010 at 7:36 PM
Mr./Ms. MacLeod,
This is not a very good column.
I see the saqme tactics in this column that are used on the Daily Beast. Glenn is this, Glenn is that, Glenn has bad motive a or bad motive B, the other guy says that Glenn will have bad result A or bad result B.
This all avoids the key argument. The truth.
Glenn hates Woodrow Wilson, you build a narrative around that lone snippet that is convenient for you, but you avoid the key question. WHY does Beck hate Wilson?
Could it have been that Wilson had thugs that were violent, that he was a proved racist who resegretated government, that he was steeped in social darwinism who thought that the Constitution was obsolete nonsense that got in the way of his dream of an engineered society?
Anyone who loves freedom and limited government should hold many of Wilson’s views with a certain degree of contempt.
What I don’t see from Beck’s critics is “Beck’s argument is wrong because of varifiable evidence X and verifiable evidence Y”.
I love Mark Levin, and he is right that the political consequences of the Tea Party and Beck in some cases maybe that the vote is split 3 ways and the leftist wins.
But this is also a reflection of a greater truth, the Republican Party is not entitled to my vote simply because I oppose statist leftism, like any candidate and any party they will have to earn my vote on merit and performance period.
Voting for you just because you are not the other guy is no longer good enough. The GOP needs to perform, keep its promises and show real leadership.
Chuck Norton on February 24, 2010 at 7:37 PM
I just don’t get the issues many usually level-headed people are having with Beck.
Yes, he is overly animated and entertaining with his message – and that’s gotten him, and his fundamentallly conservative message a massive audience – some of whom like or only understand their politics delivered when delivered in this style (as opposed to a Levin’s more serious hardcore approach, or Hannity’s folksy style).
I think he’s belaboring the “no difference between the parties” line in order to (smartly) continue to reinforce that he’s not “partisan”. This will fade soon as (hopefully) the Republican party no longer looks like it did in 2008 as the RINOs get weeded out
changed.
Bottom line – Glenn Beck speaks from his heart. He is what he declares himself to be – an entertainer (deserves mnore credit than calling himself a clown), a guy who believes we should be governed based on principle and common sense, and extremely passionate about communicating what we are all feeling under the Obama administration.
I am a fan of Levin, Rush, Bennett etc. They are all solid and make good points. I am having a very hard time understanding the friendly fire being aimed at Beck. Especially from Levin who is becoming overtly hostile. Levin can continue to belittle him, but where was he to break and pound on the Van Jones story and countless other points that Beck has brought to our attention this past year? I watch and listen to them all, and I completely understand the success Beck is having right now. And it’s deserved. Just because he is over the top entertaining does not diminish his message, which is fundamentally the same as Levin, Bennett et al, who I hold in just as much esteem. To say that he is “dangerous”, “hateful”, etc is ridiculous and false. He is getting through to millions of people to enlighten on the histroy and destructive nature of Progressivism, and for that we should be nothing but thankful.
Keep up the good work Glenn. And to your competitors who are also doing great work – zip it!
jam550 on February 24, 2010 at 7:38 PM
A lot of people don’t “get” GB. Especially those who are elitist to any degree.
n0doz on February 24, 2010 at 7:42 PM
*PING!* Straight skippy! Nail…head…*WHACK*….
If the folks in Massawhatsit wanna be lapdogs and housecats, and trade a little freedom for a little security, more power to ‘em! As long as they keep it in that benighted state (where, to tell the whole truth, I spent eight years stationed there in the Army, and am familiar with the breed), they should be able to do it.
Vermont can then chime in and do it, and do it their own way…maybe learning from Mass’s mistakes…but I doubt it…been in Vermont, too….
Then, if Oregon wants to do something similar, so be it. Let ‘em tiresomely trumpet how enlightened they are, and how good things are in Oregon…until, strangled by taxes, the employers begin moving to Idaho….
The problem is that our collectivist friends don’t trust diversity. They champion it in the public square, so long as it’s the sort of diversity where we all look different, but all think alike…and so long as it gets ‘em votes…nothing like a good bumper-sticker slogan to lull the masses, eh, comrade?
The Tenth Amendment is a wonderful thing…those powers not spelled out as being federal being left to the states to screw up…or to the people, who might just give it a miss….
But, the collectivist, progressive Left of both parties are driven by the notion that freedom is nice, so long as it it’s doled out sparingly…the peasants can’t be trusted to make “good decisions”….
I once heard of General Tecumseh Sherman speaking of General Grant (two people not very high on my hit parade, but the anecdote is handy, so I’m runnin’ with it)…he said that he (*hiss* Sherman *hiss*) was better at tactics, strategy, logistics, and in fact better at ‘most everything than was Ol Sam Grant…but where Grant was better, where he beat him and beat the world, was that Grant didn’t care a damn for what the enemy was doing out of his sight, but it scared him like hell….
…you see…Grant was a conservative….
Puritan1648 on February 24, 2010 at 7:42 PM
Reading the comments here sometimes makes it clearer than ever why I didn’t register to vote for several years. Politics is an evil, evil thing, professional politicians are worse, and party politics is the worst of all. Principles trump everything, folks.
The response to Beck’s jeremiad against Progressivism and all its works has inspired endless insipid whining about “But how are we ever gonna win?” Installing a Republican administration which continues to play defense against the insanity that is Leftism is like making sure you get a first-class ticket on the Titanic.
Progressivism is the politics of envy, and Glenn Beck is not the first to make this point.
warbaby on February 24, 2010 at 7:46 PM
Anybody here think we’ve convinced CK that he/she/it was wrong? Probably not, but slicing and dicing these squishy blog posts is fun, anyway.
pugwriter on February 24, 2010 at 7:47 PM
vai2112 on February 24, 2010 at 6:56 PM
Agree with much of your post. The hand-wringing over Beck is a waste of time and energy. He is not a party cheerleader and never will be – and I’m glad for that.
When I hear people like Pence (a stalwart conservative) state that he is supporting Parker Griffith (who just flipped from D to R) I get distraught. Or, when I hear Kyl matter of factly state to Hannity that he is “supporting his colleague John McCain,” I start to think that this is nothing but crony politics. Why on God’s green earth would Pence support Griffith? Because he is an incumbent. Kyl is supporting McCain because they are in the same club. It sickens me and makes me glad to know there are people like Beck who do not cheerlead this political club.
KickandSwimMom on February 24, 2010 at 7:47 PM
I believe it was meant as sarcasm.
FloatingRock on February 24, 2010 at 7:48 PM
It’s all good.
thomasaur on February 24, 2010 at 7:51 PM
…nope…sorry…can’t relax…you got my back up….
Reread your bilge…very specific comment about someone else’s parenting…poor choice of words? Might’ve made it less specific as to subject, as in “A parent who blah-blah may be making a mistake if he/she…” as opposed to “I don’t know if either of you have young children” and “…you’re screwing up”….
…fightin’ words, most places…in the flesh and within reach, my dear old paternal unit wouldn’t've registered his disapproval rather suddenly…would’ve spent the balance of the day cursing your bad manners as he picked tooth fragments from between his fingers…it’s just not done….
Listen more carefully in future…what Mr. B is trying to do is let folks know to be vigilant, and to crack a book (he’s recommended several fine ones, one or two of which I’ve now got)…in other words, democracy, and American citizenship in particular, entails some homework….
We need someone as blue in his prose as Mr. Beck. He fills one niche. We need Mr. Levin, as well. Different point of entry/departure with a shade different audience. Mr. Limbaugh has his niche, as does Mr. Hannity (who’s too blue even for my tastes)…the collectivist Left needs to feel surrounded, so’s they have to be careful and sneaky slipping their bilge into law…they’re about as good at sneaky as an elephant on roller skates…you see the point, surely….
…but they’re making a mistake trying to straighten one another out. They all have different styles…and there’s no “right” style…and none of ‘em who’d got a monopoly on the truth….
Puritan1648 on February 24, 2010 at 7:54 PM
…the funny thing about plaintext is that sarcasm, like smells, don’t communicate well…no nuances, you see….
…it’s one of the only mediums I can think of where you’re left to believe that the speaker/writer actually meant what he or she said….
Puritan1648 on February 24, 2010 at 7:56 PM
+1 And anyone who understands American colonial/revolutionary history would understand that. The Founders and Framers were a diverse bunch and remained so to their deaths. That is a good thing.
pugwriter on February 24, 2010 at 7:59 PM
If the shoe fits….
FloatingRock on February 24, 2010 at 8:00 PM
One other point about “freedom”. Having tax dollars taken without our consent to pay for people who don’t have health insurance and then get sick isn’t very free either.
What I said was common sense. Anyone who isn’t out of their flipping mind knows that that’s how children need to be treated. It was not an attack on anyone’s parenting skills.
Buy Danish on February 24, 2010 at 8:02 PM
…I used to be here, on and off, somewhat regularly…I’ve always read up somewhat regularly, but haven’t posted in some time….
…been ’round since at least 2006 or earlier…maybe even 2004…the brain cells which control chronological memory were the ones I drank to death in my youth…
…I remember sitting up on some election night sometime commiserating with folks here…as I remember it, one election “we” won, another “we” lost…looking back now, through the veil of years, “we” — meaning the nation — lost both times….
It’s always been a great site. There are some truly great writers and thinkers here…some of ‘em, if they could save and string together some of the posts, should be leaned on to publish! That, and some equally good straight men…hope it doesn’t change under new management…I have faith….
Puritan1648 on February 24, 2010 at 8:04 PM
…maybe so, but then there’s that pesky old “perception thing”…it seemed pretty definite…maybe it was just badly worded, as I mentioned earlier….
Puritan1648 on February 24, 2010 at 8:05 PM
I’ll back that statement.
disa on February 24, 2010 at 8:07 PM
…*BINGO*…see that *BINGO* and raise you a *YAHTZEE*….
Read the Constitution. Then, read the Federalist Papers. Then, read the Anti-Federalist Papers. Read about Jefferson (a figure I loathe), then read Flexner on Washington (great books about a truly great figure). Read about Hamilton’s view of the country’s future, then read Mason’s or Henry’s notions…Federalist v. Republican…read about the presidential campaign of 1800…of 1804…maybe read about 1824…then about 1828….
…after all, Fort Sumter didn’t come out of left field….
Democracy never is pretty, and nobody ever gets everything they want. That’s the reason that this progressive absolutism and brinksmanship looks so childish…”I want what I want when I want it!”….
Take the long view…there are lots of ways to skin the democratic cat….
Puritan1648 on February 24, 2010 at 8:12 PM
Seems to me that’s better than obsessing over Glenn Beck’s rhetoric, C.K.
Disturb the Universe on February 24, 2010 at 8:25 PM
I wasn’t trying to be critical, (not that you thought I was, I’m just not sure), I’ve enjoyed your posts here, but I was pretty sure it was sarcasm based on his previous comments.
FloatingRock on February 24, 2010 at 8:40 PM
+1000
BLUF: With all the flak Beck’s getting, he is definitely over the target. As for old dog Bennett & pack, tis only the yelp of a stung dog.
AH_C on February 24, 2010 at 8:49 PM
Indeed. Forget the professional curtesies. I’d rather see two rival politicians duke it our or even duel to the death than hear that smarmy “my friend yada yada”.
There’s more honor in the former alphamale than the latter betamale.
AH_C on February 24, 2010 at 8:58 PM
The Point of Being Annoyed With Squishy Bloggers…
pugwriter on February 24, 2010 at 9:31 PM
The assumption that I hate Beck is incorrect. I like him and I like his show (which I really do watch). I just happen to disagree with his whole third party schtick. You can disagree with someone on something and not hate them, just FYI. ;)
rollthedice on February 24, 2010 at 10:07 PM
I have only one question to ask everyone attacking Beck for going against the Republican party: why should conservatives ever support a political party rather than an individual candidate that shares their values?
What has the republican party done since Reagan to scale back the failed nanny state? What have they done to assert states’ rights? When they start talking like this (around 11:00), don’t you have to wonder if there is anything they really believe in?
JiyuLife on February 24, 2010 at 10:21 PM
Exactly!
JiyuLife on February 24, 2010 at 10:27 PM
I resemble that!
Johan Klaus on February 24, 2010 at 11:04 PM
Hmmmm.
Glen Beck is right.
The same a$$holes who were in charge of Congress a few years ago spent money like water. And now all of a sudden they’re fiscal conservatives?
Not a fricking chance.
Glen Beck is absolutely right in that there is NO difference between the GOP and the Democrats. It’s just the GOP is out of power that they deign to portray themselves as responsible adults.
If they get into power they’ll do the same thing the Democrats are doing because they haven’t denied themselves the earmark.
memomachine on February 24, 2010 at 11:39 PM
Let’s started cutting out these cancerous Progressive Ideas:
Ability trumps birthright.
Everyone is created equal.
People that govern should be elected.
The pursuit of happiness.
Freedom of religion.
Every person knows what’s best for themselves.
A contract between the people and government.
There are 100’s more that made America “the shining city on the hill”, that people around the world still think of as the “land of milk and honey”, because of the lack of progressivism in their countries.
Bill Blizzard on February 25, 2010 at 3:36 AM
Glenn hates Wilson for more things that being progressive–you might call it aggressively progressive. He’s called him and “SOB”. He’s never said that any progressive is just as bad. Wilson stands out.
To just transfer that hatred from Wilson to other progressives is really a dubious projection.
I like Glenn Beck, I think he’s one of the brighter conservatives around. My admiration for him is not based on “agreeing with him”. There are a number of times where I’ve said “Oooh” (sympathetically, now) “You didn’t make your point.” I’ve said that about Rush a number of times.
He’s smart. His crew is funny. And I laugh out loud listening to his radio show. They riff, and sometime what they say off the tops of their heads cannot be taken for serious commentary–Glenn is a career Morning Zoo type of DJ. His Fox show is totally different, and I find that few people appreciate how measured he is in his words when he is being totally serious.
The idea that he never attacks Democrats (as someone said) is flat out ridiculous–and if by chance he didn’t have happen to mention them in his CPAC speech–are a whole lot of people thinking that a whole lot of CPAC attendees are going to jump to liberal Dems simply because Beck told them that the republicans are “just as bad”? He knew his audience, they were conservative. So his point was not to let Pubs off the hook.
I’m a CI (Conservative Independent) because I got sick of watching Republicans flinch in the mass media–that’s the real reason that the Republicans are no better (or not much at least). We can no longer let the media get by with their slanted coverage. We have to let them know that they are the enemy–and we do NOT expect to be treated fairly by them–and they can take their opinion and shove it. But the R’s have been too much politicians currying favor and too little statesmen serving the people.
Axeman on February 25, 2010 at 4:55 AM
That’s not what Beck is talking about and you should know it–If you don’t know it, then you should learn that it helps to concern yourself with what the speaker means by “progressive” and not just what are the possible meanings of “progressive”.
It’s like half straw man, half equivocation. Beck never stood out against “anything progressive” or anything somebody could call progressive. He’s talking about the tenor of a particular political movement. Everyone is created equal by the Creator. So that’s not “progressive” because it’s been there from the beginning. We’ve recognized that from at least Locke and was made a founding principle in the Declaration. If you’re suggesting that Beck wants to roll things back past the Constitution, good luck finding text to back up that assertion–which makes the suggestion that it could fall into the category “progressive” quite dubious.
Again, it is an elitist political movement that could easily consider, even the idea that we were “created” equal, outdated.
If you’re going to engage in an argument–it’s not time to play word association. Some libs do that pretty well.
Axeman on February 25, 2010 at 5:08 AM
These are desperate times, and the measures we need…..well….
I’m with Beck. Use Coolidge as the road sign to follow, and see anything less as failure. I don’t care what you call us, we mean business and the McCains, Obamas, Clintons, Noonans, Parkers, Bennetts and Van Jones’ can get out of the way. This is a struggle for our very survival, not political theatre.
davecatbone on February 25, 2010 at 7:56 AM
If this is the best that MacCleod can produce, there’s not much point in wasting time reading anything else under that byline. Even AP knows not to peg the stupid meter all the time.
SKYFOX on February 25, 2010 at 9:20 AM
Well said!
JiyuLife on February 25, 2010 at 9:25 AM
MacLeod,
What Beck said was he liked Teddy too, until he read him. Then Beck quoted the dead president. What I heard thoughout the talk was
Progressivism is bad. We should be busy eradicating it.
I think Beck was right.
Where is your argument that he was in error?
Has anybody noticed that Rush NEVER actually calls out another conservative? What I noticed was Rush spends a lot of time NOT bashing Beck or Levin. Can Levin play at this level.
Favorite quote from Major League:
Blacksmith8 on February 25, 2010 at 10:25 AM
Your analogy-fu is greater than my own.
(*bows*)
Master.
Blacksmith8 on February 25, 2010 at 10:28 AM
It’s you and Lonesome Rhoads that play word games. I assume you have “Lonesome Rhoads” Beck’s “little red book”. Where can I get one?
Bill Blizzard on February 25, 2010 at 1:46 PM
Snaps, Axeman, but I would make the further point that Blizzard’s list is not a list of Progressive principles at all.
The Progressives, as a philosophical-political movement, can’t take any credit for the unique insights of the Founders, or the philosophical ideas of Locke and Montesquieu, because they came along a century and more after those insights and ideas had been put forth and incorporated in the US Constitution.
Moreover, Progressivism explicitly believes that every person does not know what’s best for himself. That’s why he has to be told how to strap himself in for life: what to eat, what to think, what to want. Government has to step in and use his money for him because if left to himself, he wouldn’t use it in the ways Progressives think he should.
Progressivism is unalterably opposed to ability triumping birthright, if the outcome is inequality.
Progressivism isn’t interested in whether we were created equal; its project is to enforce equality of outcome.
The agreement of Progressivism to being governed by the elected only goes as far as what the elected propose to do or not do. If Progressives don’t agree with it, they will simply shift governance to the unelected: the appointed. Progressives are the ones who created our long list of federal regulatory agencies, our hundreds of thousands of pages of regulation, and our growing tradition of government by judicial fiat.
Progressives prioritize coercion of the people for abstract, theoretical purposes over the individual pursuit of happiness. They certainly had nothing to do with writing it as a principle of liberty into the Declaration. None of them had even been born in 1776.
Progressives prioritize coercion of the people for abstract, theoretical purposes over freedom of religion.
Progressivism’s very essence is the assumption that each person does not know what’s best for himself. That is what distinguishes and defines a Progressive.
The “contract between the people and the government” came from Locke and Montesquieu, 17th-century political philosophers. Progressives differ markedly from the Founders in their concept of this contract because they are unwilling to accept absolute limits on it.
Progressives are the opposite of constitutionalists: they are majoritarians, and they hold that there is no aspect of life into which government must not be allowed to inquire. Constitutional limits, the principle of federalism — these things mean nothing to Progressives. They are defined by their belief that government should have the power to do whatever it needs to do to any of us, in order to advance the agenda of Progressivism.
For anyone who is not aware of the actual history of Progressivism, check it out. Progressivism came more than a century after the founding of the United States, and has spent its entire career to date opposing the founding principle of government that is limited, constitutional, and federal.
J.E. Dyer on February 25, 2010 at 2:06 PM
Your rant still doesn’t prove the ideas below weren’t progressive for there time.
Ability trumps birthright.
Everyone is created equal.
People that govern should be elected.
The pursuit of happiness.
Freedom of religion.
Every person knows what’s best for themselves.
A contract between the people and government.
The US constitution is founded on progressive ideas that the establishment at that time thought were radical and accused the founding fathers as “terrorists for trying to implement them.
Bill Blizzard on February 25, 2010 at 2:41 PM
Are you confusing progressivism with classical liberalism?
pugwriter on February 25, 2010 at 2:47 PM
Actually, the American colonists were considered terrorists because they revolted against the Crown and often used guerrilla tactics to fight the conventional British army.
In terms of the political enterprise that the USA turned into, British politicians and thinkers considered it tremendously interesting. Edmund Burke made the point that the American idea was not, in fact, “progressive” — that that title belonged to the governing idea of the French Revolution, which proposed to remake mankind on principles of science and logic.
The Founders did not propose to make work what had not worked in the past: that is, majoritarian democracy and centralized, powerful government. They had much recourse to history, and to the failures of those political forms, in creating the Constitution. In fact, they pointed to Britain’s own parliament — a majoritarian body with no explicit constitutional checks on it — as a bad example that they wanted to avoid.
What was revolutionary about the political idea of the Founders doesn’t appear in your list. It was the idea that government activism is inherently an infringement on our natural rights — that it was when King George’s government was being activist, and it would be if a future American government became activist. Defending the people against government was the chief project of the Founders.
J.E. Dyer on February 25, 2010 at 3:05 PM
Maybe, maybe not. But it’s right.
What moderate pragmatists like Jennifer Rubin dislike — and what you appear here to echo — is consistency, which requires (in today’s context) being extreme. Applying basic principles requires having some, and sticking to them.
Madison, by this view, would be an extremist, a demagogue. And so he was, of exactly the right sort.
Pragmatists – following Dewey – regard this as invariably leading to dogmatism. That is only one of the many errors of the philosophy that is responsible for every single one of America’s major social problems today. It’s time to cast it off, with prejudice as the judges say.
JDPerren on March 3, 2010 at 2:08 PM
The funniest part about this is the lending of credibility to a passed-over CDR who stamped her feet and said “But I’m the N2!!!” over and over again on the ship.
Hey Jen, why didn’t you make CAPT?
Pretty freaking comical if you ask me. Which you didn’t, but still.
Otis B on April 17, 2010 at 1:35 PM
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