Obama’s rules of engagement: Calling lawyers for permission to kill terrorists

This incident in Kunar Province is a good example of how the current ROE is getting our Soldiers killed:

It now appears that this may be yet another example of a rules of engagement problem.

GANJGAL, Afghanistan — We walked into a trap, a killing zone of relentless gunfire and rocket barrages from Afghan insurgents hidden in the mountainsides and in a fortress-like village where women and children were replenishing their ammunition.

Dashing from boulder to boulder, diving into trenches and ducking behind stone walls as the insurgents maneuvered to outflank us, we waited more than an hour for U.S. helicopters to arrive, despite earlier assurances that air cover would be five minutes away.

U.S. commanders, citing new rules to avoid civilian casualties, rejected repeated calls to unleash artillery rounds at attackers dug into the slopes and tree lines — despite being told repeatedly that they weren’t near the village.

“We are pinned down. We are running low on ammo. We have no air. We’ve lost today,” Marine Maj. Kevin Williams, 37, said through his translator to his Afghan counterpart, responding to the latter’s repeated demands for helicopters.

Four U.S. Marines were killed Tuesday, the most U.S. service members assigned as trainers to the Afghan National Army to be lost in a single incident since the 2001 U.S.-led invasion. Eight Afghan troops and police and the Marine commander’s Afghan interpreter also died in the ambush and the subsequent battle that raged from dawn until 2 p.m. around this remote hamlet in eastern Kunar province, close to the Pakistan border.

What a crime to leave fellow Soldiers to be gunned down because someone “thinks” that civilians could be killed.

…and there is little evidence that the Afghanistan population is turning against the Taliban in a significant way that will turn the tide of Taliban control.

After all…they know we are leaving soon….Obama has already set the date:

But the local elders and villagers aren’t fighting the Taliban.  Bing West reports that:

http://www.captainsjournal.com/2009/11/16/battling-the-rules-of-engagement-in-afghanistan/

It is not obvious that winning the hearts and minds of village elders, or linking villages to Kabul, wins the war. Our soldiers note that the Afghans are happy to accept what we give them but do not reciprocate by turning against the Taliban. The elders don’t raise militias or secure recruits for the army, and they don’t fight; there has been no replay of that scene from The Magnificent Seven in which the terrorized villagers finally rise up against their oppressors. Instead, fearful locals plead with migratory Taliban gangs to move on. A rural population, no matter how content with its government, cannot stand up to such a tough enemy…

Of course protecting the population is important and a crucial part of COIN….but another crucial part is actually defeating the enemy and gaining the confidence and support of the population.
Projecting weakness and allowing the enemy to play us like fools is not going to help very much with building confidence with the Afghan people.

Baxter Greene on February 23, 2010 at 3:02 PM

Well it requires military action. They need to feel secure. We provide security by removing the Taliban. Once the Taliban is gone, we can demonstrate our competence in providing security.

I understand your points concerning COIN and how it applies…but most of your rational for using these points seems to be backed up with “we are removing the Taliban”.

You do know we are not “removing the Taliban”.

The Taliban have now been divided up into “radical Taliban” and “moderate Taliban”.

I have yet to hear what makes up a “moderate” Taliban but I am sure that what may seem “moderate” will still carry the same dangers that the Taliban have always presented.

It appears that the Obama administration wants to secure the Population centers and leave the rural areas to Taliban control (like Pakistan).

In Now Zad Taliban fighters have been so unmole%ted that they have used that area for R&R.  The city of Now Zad – with an erstwhile population of 30,000+ civilians – is deserted with only insurgents remaining to terrorize the area so that inhabitants don’t return.  The Marines are so under-resourced that they can only fight the Taliban to a standstill.  It is so dangerous in Now Zad that the Marines deployed there are the only ones to bring two trauma doctors with them.

The Obama administration has also made it clear that they are going to negotiate with the Taliban and bring them into the Government.

New White House spin: Taliban not really an enemy, has role in Afghanistan’s future
posted at 5:14 pm on October 8, 2009 by Allahpundit
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/10/08/new-white-house-spin-taliban-not-really-an-enemy-has-role-in-afghanistans-future/

Bowing to the reality that the Taliban is too ingrained in Afghanistan’s culture to be entirely defeated, the administration is prepared, as it has been for some time, to accept some Taliban role in parts of Afghanistan, the official said. That could mean paving the way for Taliban members willing to renounce violence to participate in a central government — though there has been little receptiveness to this among the Taliban. It might even mean ceding some regions of the country to the Taliban…

This report even shows Gates being on board with accepting the Taliban into government and the population:

NY Times -  The United States recognizes that the Taliban are now part of the political fabric of Afghanistan, Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates said here on Friday, but the group must be prepared to play a legitimate role before it can reconcile with the Afghan government.

That means, Mr. Gates said, that the Taliban must participate in elections, not oppose education and not assassinate local officials. 
“The question is whether the Taliban at some point in this process are ready to help build a 21st-century Afghanistan or whether they still just want to kill people,” Mr. Gates said.

This is not “getting rid of the Taliban”.

The Taliban have no intentions of integrating or taking on anything other than total sharia law.

And that’s exactly what they are doing. An insurgency can’t survive without the support and collusion of the populace. Win the support of populace and you cut off the life line for the insurgency.
Shock the Monkey on February 23, 2010 at 4:25 PM

I don’t see how you can win support from the populace to reject the Taliban when the Taliban are part of the populace.
The results of getting the Afghan people on board have been mixed at best:

The Taliban have easily integrated into the population and are simply waiting for us to leave:

“a Taliban commander told NBC News’ Richard Engel that many insurgents would wait out the offensive.”
“They (U.S. and coalition troops) will come in and announce that they have conquered the area. We will let them come in. They are welcome.
“They will ask, ‘Are there any Taliban in the area?’ We will say, ‘Yes, but they have left’,” the Taliban leader added.
“We will not fight them face-to-face,” he said. “We will shake their hands, as civilians. Then they will leave.”

The civilians know this…Obama has already made it clear we will be on our way out soon….so many civilians will align with the Taliban since they will be the strongest presence there when we leave:

It is not obvious that winning the hearts and minds of village elders, or linking villages to Kabul, wins the war. Our soldiers note that the Afghans are happy to accept what we give them but do not reciprocate by turning against the Taliban. The elders don’t raise militias or secure recruits for the army, and they don’t fight; there has been no replay of that scene from The Magnificent Seven in which the terrorized villagers finally rise up against their oppressors. Instead, fearful locals plead with migratory Taliban gangs to move on. A rural population, no matter how content with its government, cannot stand up to such a tough enemy…

This ROE is not projecting a superior fighting force and puts our Soldiers in unnecessary danger.

It allows our enemy to reign free and use the population against us.

I just don’t see how allowing the Taliban to be a part of the government and remain in the overall population makes Afghanistan free from becoming the terrorist supporter it was before 9/11.

Baxter Greene on February 23, 2010 at 7:10 PM