Gen. Casey: I have “serious concerns” about repealing “don’t ask, don’t tell” right now
posted at 3:11 pm on February 23, 2010 by Allahpundit
A little something from today’s Senate hearing to balance last night’s poll numbers. The argument’s simple: Yes, let’s study the possible effects of repeal, but don’t go tinkering with military effectiveness in the middle of two wars without first knowing what you’re getting yourself into. Or as a certain prominent “true conservative” recently put it:
The military may be a microcosm of society in some ways, but it most definitely is not a democracy. Individuals don’t have the usual rights that we honor in civilian society and, in fact, forfeit their freedoms when they wear the uniform.
If you want to test your free-speech rights, try criticizing your commanding officer…
More questions remain than can be posed, much less answered, in this space, and Gates may need every minute of the 11 months he has requested to study the issue. Whatever one’s personal opinion, the guiding principle should be only what is best for military effectiveness.
“Be all that you can be” was a nice recruiting slogan, but the military really is not about you. And the right to serve belongs to no one.
I don’t mind them taking their time to study the issue, although as I said last night, the conclusion is a fait accompli politically, especially if The One is in trouble with his base ahead of 2012. They’re really just studying how to implement the policy most effectively, with as little disruption as possible, not whether they should or will implement it at all.
As for the identity of the author of the blockquote, didn’t you already guess? Exit question: Does this post mean HA’s officially conservative again?
Update: One follow-up thought to Parker’s point. While it’s true that you don’t have the same free-speech rights, privacy rights, etc, in the military that you have as a civilian, you don’t “forfeit your freedoms” in their entirety. A presidential order commanding the military to segregate along racial lines might well violate the Equal Protection Clause (or the Fifth Amendment version of it), although I can imagine a separation-of-powers Article II counterargument to that.
Blowback
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He’d be crazy if he didn’t.
Rightwingguy on February 23, 2010 at 3:12 PM
Hmmm….
Another non-conservative pro-gay thread at Hot Air…
/
OmahaConservative on February 23, 2010 at 3:14 PM
Yeah, but he has no reservations about excluding the terms “Islam,” “Muslim,” “Islamo-fascist” and “terrorist” in any report about MAN-CAUSED DISASTERS.
J.J. Sefton on February 23, 2010 at 3:15 PM
DON’T DO IT CASEY.
This will kill the military.
This is not what your troops want or deserve.
RealMc on February 23, 2010 at 3:15 PM
Smart man. Been waiting for someone in charge to say it.
Vashta.Nerada on February 23, 2010 at 3:15 PM
Seven Percent Solution on February 23, 2010 at 3:16 PM
Pretty sure his civilian boss had some input there.
Vashta.Nerada on February 23, 2010 at 3:17 PM
Really. The military is so weak it can be “killed” by openly gay soldiers? Some strength in depth there.
Grow Fins on February 23, 2010 at 3:17 PM
It’ll hurt the diversity ‘n’ stuff.
Django on February 23, 2010 at 3:17 PM
I guess the question is, does the Taliban or whoever we’re fighting have concerns about repealing it?
DaydreamBeliever on February 23, 2010 at 3:18 PM
Related news: Fisting no longer considered torture!
SouthernGent on February 23, 2010 at 3:20 PM
That quote wasn’t from him, it was from Kathleen Parker.
Midas on February 23, 2010 at 3:20 PM
You missed the point. This is only a first step. Next up, the trans-gender confused “what about me” crowd.
RealMc on February 23, 2010 at 3:20 PM
Serving in the military, like marraige, is a privilege NOT A GOD-GIVEN RIGHT!
omnipotent on February 23, 2010 at 3:20 PM
It’s a volunteer military. People quit volunteering, it dies. But hey, we can always go back to the good ol’ days of conscription, right? Funny, I remember when liberals opposed conscription.
misterpeasea on February 23, 2010 at 3:21 PM
I really doubt you have any insight into the matter. Go play with the proletariat.
fiatboomer on February 23, 2010 at 3:21 PM
How about “don’t ask, don’t tell, right now, maybe later.”
JiangxiDad on February 23, 2010 at 3:21 PM
I think I love you. Bravo.
omnipotent on February 23, 2010 at 3:21 PM
The “pro-gay” poll is the same frame of mind that said, “Yes, let’s elect an incompetent Marxist as president because that’ll show we’re not prejudiced and THAT’S what matters the most.” How’d that work out? Those same people are now saying they’re okay with gays in the military for the same reasons – so the left will stop yelling at them and making them feel uncool.
Django on February 23, 2010 at 3:22 PM
What about women on submarines? Our Navy secretary is looking into implementing that though…
ninjapirate on February 23, 2010 at 3:22 PM
There is a real opportunity here. The military has probably the best statistical database ever created to study the effects of homosexual behavior on mortality. It would be simple to design a study where all of the soldiers released against DADT were paired up with a soldier (same sex and age) not released and run the pairs through the social security death registry. The result would be the best possible stats on the effects of homosexual behavior.
It might show that homosexuals have essentially the same health as straight people. It also might show that they have significantly higher mortality. If the latter, then repeal of DADT could materially increase future military mortality as all deaths in theater are counted in casualty stats.
I would urge against repeal of DADT until completion of the study.
levi from queens on February 23, 2010 at 3:23 PM
another good point.
and if you click Grow Fins name link, makes me wonder if any of the fancy dressed hippies on your album cover ever stopped smoking dope long enough to serve……that was rhetorical btw.
RealMc on February 23, 2010 at 3:23 PM
The armed forces are our life blood – we need them. They are all volunteers……….if these guys and gals don’t like the service…….whether they are offended by what is going on right next to them ………..whether that’s “acceptable” or not to us as civilians…………..they’ll leave the military because they are sick of seeing actions they consider immoral…………..if gays live next door to you…………that’s fine………..their bedroom is private and you don’t have to do anything but take care of your own beeswax……………but in the military………the bunk or shower or foxhole next to you could turn into Peyton Place and you have to see it day in and day out…………..so what’s going to happen……guys and gals are going to exit the military because they can’t tolerate that behavior any more……again………in civilian life………you don’t have to witness what you don’t want to……….but in the military you do………..well guess what…………we can’t afford to lose our GI’s………just can’t………so this may be a HUGE Crisis………..stay tuned……..
Cinday Blackburn on February 23, 2010 at 3:24 PM
Smart girl, then. We need someone in charge to say it.
Vashta.Nerada on February 23, 2010 at 3:24 PM
This is verbal sparing – even if the military did away with this policy today – it would derive an implementation plan which would take years to put in place.
Verbal sparking – no real threat to anyone in the short term.
jake-the-goose on February 23, 2010 at 3:25 PM
Perhaps unfortunately, but she’s not in charge. ;)
Midas on February 23, 2010 at 3:26 PM
ya filthy homo lovin sodomite!
/robertson
blatantblue on February 23, 2010 at 3:27 PM
The real problem, as I see it, is the quartering/housing issue.
flipflop on February 23, 2010 at 3:27 PM
What about women SEAL/s?
Current SEAL motto: The only easy day was yesterday.
Future SEAL motto: The only easy day was Saturday
Throw toast everyone.
alohapundit on February 23, 2010 at 3:27 PM
More importantly Gen Casey has just terminated his career. Flag officers (Generals and Admirals) must be approved by the Senate, this is why so few of them ever tell the Senate this policy or that policy is moronic. Senators will exact petty revenge, when you stand up to them, and one Senator can, and do, stop the entire list of new Generals from being approved, until the offending name is removed. And they do not forget, if Casey ever wanted to be Sec Def or Sec of the Army that dream just died as the Senate approves cabinet positions.
LincolntheHun on February 23, 2010 at 3:29 PM
Wait, I thought we were worried about what radical Muslims who want to kill us think of us? Won’t this also be used as propaganda to help recruit new terrorists?
Esthier on February 23, 2010 at 3:31 PM
They’d have to make it through boot camp and OCS first. I don’t see those lightening up any time soon.
Rightwingguy on February 23, 2010 at 3:31 PM
Bet they would fit better in those tiny compartments.
entropent on February 23, 2010 at 3:32 PM
Casey ain’t making a 5th star. we don’t have those anymore…..and should he choose his career in the military is probably about to come to an end…….
Now he can do anything, hell a pos like weaslyclark ran for potus once upon a time, if nothing he can write books and be a tv analyst and bank a fortune.
RealMc on February 23, 2010 at 3:33 PM
The military IS segregated by GENDER at least among the enlisted. Men do not shower in the women showers, nor do the women share the men’s showers.
Nor do they share bathrooms. So will they have showers and bathrooms with a “?” on the door?
dogsoldier on February 23, 2010 at 3:34 PM
Do the study. If the study says yes (which of course it will. State that the DADT policy will expire in 2015. That gives everyone with current enlistments time to adjust to the new reality and the government time to figure out to handle it.
barnone on February 23, 2010 at 3:34 PM
The Catholic Church opened the priesthood to “celibate” gay men, trying to increase the number of seminarians, and what happened? According to a book by Michael Rose, they practically took over some Catholic seminaries, they didn’t remain celibate, and they drove away many straight seminarians. In the end (no pun intended) the Church didn’t increase the number of priests. They just got a different kind of prospective priest–the disobedient and sinful kind.
RBMN on February 23, 2010 at 3:34 PM
Sounded more like Wilkow.
thomasaur on February 23, 2010 at 3:35 PM
The real challenge is not a gay guy in a straight bathroom. It is 30 gay guys in a gay bathroom.
barnone on February 23, 2010 at 3:36 PM
Seems reasonable enough.
Esthier on February 23, 2010 at 3:36 PM
Whoops! Wrong bathroom!
Rightwingguy on February 23, 2010 at 3:37 PM
BTW, I’m sure all of them have “concerns”… that’s why they should just 1) do a “study”(the results will be rigged) 2) announce they’re going to stop enforcing it or enforce it more “humanely” and 3) set repeal of it like 5 years in the future….
ninjapirate on February 23, 2010 at 3:38 PM
The American military works fine now, so it’s time for tinkerers to destroy it. That’s how things in government.
RBMN on February 23, 2010 at 3:39 PM
…work
RBMN on February 23, 2010 at 3:39 PM
What do you mean?
Esthier on February 23, 2010 at 3:40 PM
You join the military in the service of the country, not yourself.
Get over the identity crisis and defend the nation.
You can go back to being openly gay afterwards.
Since it does nothing to advance our security.
profitsbeard on February 23, 2010 at 3:41 PM
Why does anyone have to tell? Or be asked.
- The Cat
MirCat on February 23, 2010 at 3:41 PM
Yes indeed. But I’d bet a fair number of officers are political animals as well. Casey is all about “inclusiveness” and “diversity,” practical military necessity be damned.
I pity the poor grunts and great officers who have to serve under this insane new doctrine.
J.J. Sefton on February 23, 2010 at 3:42 PM
I foresee many young men declaring themselves to be gay and thus they should be living in the women’s berthing areas.
Bishop on February 23, 2010 at 3:42 PM
Why, are gay men not men? Are gay women not women? You do realize you could be sharing a bathroom with a gay pretty much any time you go to a restaurant, don’t you? Does that present a problem?
entropent on February 23, 2010 at 3:43 PM
Doesn’t matter. Official policy on this kind of thing won’t change the minds of our men and women in uniform. If they’re indifferent to homosexuality now, they’ll continue to be– and if they oppose it, they still will after DADT is repealed.
This is not nearly as big a deal to our troops as it is to the civilian civil rights enthusiasts. I don’t care one way or the other, but I’m not in the armed forces or a veteran, so I don’t think my opinion should matter, anyhow.
RachDubya on February 23, 2010 at 3:43 PM
I might be able to look at someone and see a difference in race but to my knowledge I have never looked at someone and seen their sexual preference. Excluding the possible participants of certain parades. Maybe.
Cindy Munford on February 23, 2010 at 3:43 PM
But where will the left-out lezbians go?
The conning tower?
profitsbeard on February 23, 2010 at 3:44 PM
People do not join the military for fame and fortune but to make a difference. Now that Casey has stood up the Senate he will not be allowed to do that anymore.
As for making a fortune, as some sort of balm for his sacrifice, yes he could become an ambulance chaser like John Edwards, or a stripper like Helen Thomas, but there is such as thing as honor and dignity, and I imagine he would like to keep his intact.
LincolntheHun on February 23, 2010 at 3:44 PM
Do you shower at restaurants? What are you, a trucker?
BohicaTwentyTwo on February 23, 2010 at 3:45 PM
Sounds like you need to have your “gaydar” adjusted. *_-
thomasaur on February 23, 2010 at 3:46 PM
LOL!
That takes me back… working as a helper for Mayflower moving van when I was 20… and discovering the somewhat disconcerting oddness of showering in a truck stop.
profitsbeard on February 23, 2010 at 3:48 PM
I see several disadvantages, but to be fair, there’s one advantage. It will tend to keep Islamic jihadists from joining our military.
RBMN on February 23, 2010 at 3:48 PM
Read the post. I took issue with the bathrooms. But as for the showers, the days of the shower bay is over. Soldiers have privacy when they shower in all but the most remote situations.
entropent on February 23, 2010 at 3:48 PM
Gay or straight, everyone has the right to fight for their country.
heatherrc77 on February 23, 2010 at 3:48 PM
I’m just waiting for the first Gay Woman Muslim Hyphenated-American flag officer.
Because until we have one, the terrorists will have won.
Or something.
NoDonkey on February 23, 2010 at 3:49 PM
Men and women could share toilets just fine as well, but sharing showers is something else altogether.
Esthier on February 23, 2010 at 3:49 PM
Then you don’t understand the military selection process.
You volunteer, and often they say: fuggedaboutit.
profitsbeard on February 23, 2010 at 3:50 PM
They can already… find some other straw man to attack…
ninjapirate on February 23, 2010 at 3:51 PM
O/T:
Ha-HAAAA!
Tony737 on February 23, 2010 at 3:51 PM
Yeah! They could have their own entity within the military like the military did with the Buffalo Soldiers. We would have to think of a good name for them. Something that would give them confidence as they charged into battle to slap them b!tches silly!
Vince on February 23, 2010 at 3:51 PM
Ah part of the 31% who disagree.
inchdeep on February 23, 2010 at 3:51 PM
Soldiers have privacy when they shower in all but the most remote situations.
entropent on February 23, 2010 at 3:48 PM
I didn’t realize San Antonio was remote.
The gym at Fort Sam Houston has an open bay shower as do pretty much every military gym in existence.
NoDonkey on February 23, 2010 at 3:52 PM
Vince on February 23, 2010 at 3:51 PM
Holger on February 23, 2010 at 3:52 PM
…
Just bookmarked RenewAmerica. Looks like a great site. Thanks for the inadvertent plug, Hot Air!
Rude on February 23, 2010 at 3:54 PM
Well you see, I don’t know they are gay because I don’t ask, and they don’t tell…wait a sec…
gator70 on February 23, 2010 at 3:54 PM
That is at the gym. How about barracks?
MCRD may still have the shower bay but in MCRD I’d reckon the closet queer would be to tired and sore from PT to think about putting it up someone’s poop shoot.
Holger on February 23, 2010 at 3:54 PM
What planet are you living on? No they don’t. I know someone who was denied just for a skin disease. They don’t have time to wait while his skin clears up after he breaks out every other month.
RBMN on February 23, 2010 at 3:54 PM
Tragically, I am a lesbian trapped in a man’s body. Everyone feel sorry for me.
(/sarc)
Rightwingguy on February 23, 2010 at 3:55 PM
We would need a seperate branch of service for gays, after the fighting is done, send them in to rebuild and decorate the place our warriors have demo’d. They could even wear shiny pants if they want to. /s
la.rt.wngr on February 23, 2010 at 3:56 PM
Actually every gym in existence. The most private showers are actually in military berthing.
Rightwingguy on February 23, 2010 at 3:56 PM
Openly gay or not..the arguments here are stupid. Being gay isn’t just about the act of having sex.
Im a straight woman and when I see a naked man it doesn’t make me automatically want to have sex with him. And being in the military you have certain rules you have to abide by and if you break those rules you will be punished.
heatherrc77 on February 23, 2010 at 3:57 PM
NO they do not.
Unless you support the “right” of skin heads to join
And members of Al Qedia or the Taliban
And Klansmen or Bloods and Crips
And Ron Paul supporters (just kidding)
You have no more “right” to join the military than you do any organization.
LincolntheHun on February 23, 2010 at 3:57 PM
Seriously, if you are at OCS or bootcamp, you have other priorities than trying to sleep with the guy who looks cute in his P.T. shorts.
Honestly, I think straight guys forget that they are with women when they are in bootcamp/OCS.
Rightwingguy on February 23, 2010 at 3:58 PM
Being gay isn’t a communicable disease. What planet are you living on?
heatherrc77 on February 23, 2010 at 3:58 PM
”Four Taliban militants were killed and six others were wounded when one of several bombs they were planting to demolish the vacant house of a tribal elder exploded prematurely,”
Bill Ayers just shed a tear.
NoDonkey on February 23, 2010 at 3:58 PM
Hasn’t been my experience, but I’ll concede the point in favor of the larger one. What is the difference between showering with straight men and showering with gay men? Do gay men attack?
entropent on February 23, 2010 at 3:59 PM
Actually, there are gangs that join the military to learn combat skills. (The military is actively fighting against them).
There are even Ron Paul supporters (scarily enough).
Rightwingguy on February 23, 2010 at 3:59 PM
I’m not sure I get this analogy. Is it being suggested that the military segregate according to sexual preference?
Not if they’re Pashtun jihadists.
Buy Danish on February 23, 2010 at 3:59 PM
They stalk before striking.
Rightwingguy on February 23, 2010 at 3:59 PM
Most new barracks for permament party soldiers are set up with with private bathrooms. Most temporary billets have open bay bathrooms as do Basic and AIT barracks.
BohicaTwentyTwo on February 23, 2010 at 4:00 PM
You do realize that in many places there is no stall, or no door to the stall, do you really want to see some random dude’s face as he piches off a big ‘ole loaf?
LincolntheHun on February 23, 2010 at 4:00 PM
If some guy starts asking and telling in the restaurant bathroom?
Yeah, it presents a problem!
sharrukin on February 23, 2010 at 4:00 PM
Thank god we always have someone like you to explain the rules in the military. Don’t know how I made it this long. You have no freakin clue what you are talking about. Once again, decisions based upon emotion and not actual thought.
gator70 on February 23, 2010 at 4:00 PM
It probably cost too much. If it ever comes up I’ll just ask SouthernGent, according to him, his is first class and of great quality.
Cindy Munford on February 23, 2010 at 4:00 PM
Klinton stared this crap with DADT, knowing it would lead to this.
Tony737 on February 23, 2010 at 4:01 PM
I agree, if you are living in the BEQ, you have your own shower or a shared shower that’s private (i.e. enclosed)
Rightwingguy on February 23, 2010 at 4:01 PM
Not in the Marine Corps.
gator70 on February 23, 2010 at 4:01 PM
I said gay or straight. A gay person should not be turned back because of their preference.
heatherrc77 on February 23, 2010 at 4:01 PM
Only if you drop the soap.
LincolntheHun on February 23, 2010 at 4:02 PM
Well those situations are probably the forward-forward deployed areas. In which case, there’s a bush, go behind it.
Rightwingguy on February 23, 2010 at 4:02 PM
I wasn’t talking about a communicable disease. I think it was an auto-immune disease, something like that. It wasn’t catching. It was just an inconvenience for the military. It didn’t slow him down.
RBMN on February 23, 2010 at 4:03 PM
entropent on February 23, 2010 at 3:59 PM
I don’t like seeing any man naked (gay or straight) with the gleaming exception of my own studly self.
Gay or straight? Don’t ask, don’t tell and I sure as hell don’t want to know.
NoDonkey on February 23, 2010 at 4:03 PM
What, you devildogs aren’t busy enough getting yelled at by the Gunny?
Rightwingguy on February 23, 2010 at 4:03 PM
Rightwingguy on February 23, 2010 at 4:01 PM
Maybe Air Force BEQs.
A good solution is to issue every man liquid soap on a rope.
NoDonkey on February 23, 2010 at 4:05 PM
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