It’s come to this: California town to charge $300 for … 911 calls; Update: Correction added
posted at 5:36 pm on February 22, 2010 by Allahpundit
A recession-flavored palate cleanser if ever there was one. As a commenter in Headlines put it yesterday, it’s “your money or your life” in policy form. What’s strange about this, though, is that they’re offering an alternative to the $300 fee — namely, an annual 911 “subscription” of just $48, which prompts the question of why they don’t just pass a $50 tax hike and force people to buy in. The way it’s set up now, the only people who won’t subscribe are the extremely stupid and the extremely poor, and while I don’t have much sympathy for the former, I have a lot for the latter. There’s no better way to do this?
Update: From the comments, a reminder that this isn’t merely “your money or your life.” It’s your money or their life: “Consider how many 911 calls are reports of incidents which have nothing to do with the caller; neighbors house on fire, assault in progress, car accidents, etc. and then think about how many of these calls will no longer be made.”
Update: It looked too bad to be true, and thankfully, it was:
“Journalists have been ringing our phones off the wall and even our town residents didn’t understand what we did, which shows the effects of viral misinformation,” says City Manager Leon Churchill. He and Mr. Maciel explain that the city of 80,000 copied the language from a law already adopted by 17 other California cities, including Fullerton and Costa Mesa. “Yes, we are having financial problems like all of California, which is up to its neck in debt because of the economy,” says Mr. Churchill. “But for some reason, this has morphed into reports that every time you dial 911, you get charged $300, which is untrue.”
In fact, the town says it has bent over backwards to accommodate its citizens by allowing them to subscribe to the service for $48 per household per year, $36 if the household is low-income. The $300 fee is charged only if the first responder, in this case with the fire department, administers medical treatment. Maciel explains that the city already had a private ambulance service, and wanted to augment that with a fire department that also had medical personnel.
Blowback
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Well, you are obviously a better thrower than I am. Like I said, I’ll stick with the gun. It at least lets me have multiple attempts.
Rightwingguy on February 22, 2010 at 7:17 PM
It’s just one of those “false choices” that big government liberals like for you to think you have to make. They could find a lot of other piddly stuff to cut and save money – but they go for the most dramatic thing first in hopes that you’ll agree to pony up more taxes so they can spend it on drug needles for junkies – or something like that.
HondaV65 on February 22, 2010 at 7:19 PM
Will Obama sign an executive order declaring Tracy, CA 911 ‘subscription’ fees excessive?
TN Mom on February 22, 2010 at 7:20 PM
Hey buddy, may I barrow your phone?
david kumbera on February 22, 2010 at 7:23 PM
Is it smarter to pay $50 each year against the risk of using a service that most normal people never or rarely use? To me, it makes more sense to keep the $50 “premium” and bear the risk.
Infidoll on February 22, 2010 at 7:27 PM
It depends on who does the billing. In many localities, they wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between a call to 911 and a 7 digit call to the local police/fire/rescue because 911 is translated to the same number. They’re called PSAPs, or Public Service Access Points. Every state is different and every locality in a state is different. Or can be different. It depends.
I’d be very surprised if the local phone company goes along with this. If they decide to bill it by the incoming ANI of the caller, as it comes into the PSAP, that would never hold up and all anyone would have to do is dispute the bill. There is not a phone company in business today who would support such a thing. Oh, they’d do it if forced to. But it would never come to that.
Jaynie59 on February 22, 2010 at 7:28 PM
Amen, brother. It always the special ed teachers that will get canned if we don’t raise taxes and never the assistant superintendent making a 150k.
Shtetl G on February 22, 2010 at 7:29 PM
Stop and hold the presses for a minute.
This is a fee for a medical response and nothing else. Its basicly a ambulance fee. And its a bargain.
Here in Pinellas County Florida, ( Clearwater, St. Pete) our government medical services authority Sunstar offers membership at $45 individual or $70 family. All paying that fee gets you is a 20% discount off their published fees.
Billing Rates
Effective Jan 1, 2009
Type of Service Rate
Advanced Life Support $473.73 Per Person
Advanced Life Support 2 $562.96 Per Person
Critical Care Ambulance $809.41 Per Person
Advanced Life Support – out of town $473.73 Per Person
Mileage per loaded mile $10.70
Waiting time per half hour $52.45
Dedicated Standby per hour (3 hour minimum) $94.94
Non-Dedicated Standby per hour $47.42
Baker Act specialty transport $106.05
Patient Expired at Scene $204.71
Certain aspects of our rate schedule are mandated by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS). We do not offer any discounts on service rates. For other billing questions, please contact the Sunstar Billing Department at 727-582-2008.
meci on February 22, 2010 at 7:29 PM
What are you going to do, throw your empty gun at me multiple times?
McCain Hater on February 22, 2010 at 7:32 PM
Wow I guess that is democrat utopia. Neat
daesleeper on February 22, 2010 at 7:37 PM
Grrrrr. This really gets my blood boiling.
No way I’m going to pay extra for traditional services I’ve already funded for many years.
–First I’d want a list of EVERY new position created in the city in the last 10 years. If it worked 10 yrs ago, they don’t need it.
–Second, every public relations person or “spokesperson”…gone. If these public officials are telling the truth, they don’t need someone to write the spin for them.
–Third: to heck with this “raise the retirement age to 55″. Raise it to 65. That’s what the rest of us live with.
–Fourth: No more health care for life. Pay for it.
–Fifth: No COLAs higher than the increase in Social Security payments.
OK. I could go on forever. But that’s a start.
jeanneb on February 22, 2010 at 7:49 PM
I’ll take the chance with the $300.00. It’s like a deductible.
Alden Pyle on February 22, 2010 at 7:56 PM
I can’t.
Fighton03 on February 22, 2010 at 7:58 PM
don’t step in into your car that way.
Fighton03 on February 22, 2010 at 8:03 PM
What happens if someone calls from a phone booth?
SilentWatcher on February 22, 2010 at 8:09 PM
That’s strange. If I go to a hospital, they have to treat me whether I can pay or not. And the reasoning is because its a person’s life. For 911, not so much I guess, huh. Even stranger because I already pay a 911 tax on my phone bill.
This is another cutting important services first while refusing to cut all the crap.
TechieNotTrekkie on February 22, 2010 at 8:11 PM
I believe this is pre-empted by state law. The 911 and emergency medical response systems in California are mandated, and regulated, by state law such that no city or county can charge for them save as allowed by state law. And I am not aware of any law of the State of California which allows charges for making calls to 911.
Tom_Holsinger on February 22, 2010 at 8:12 PM
I feel I ought to be surprised, dismayed and outraged by the sheer stupidity and impracticability of this idea … but the kind of people who populate some of these offices have come up with so many outrageously stupid ideas over the years that if they now proposed per-second billing for each lumen of utilised moonlight I couldn’t think any worse of them.
YiZhangZhe on February 22, 2010 at 8:20 PM
Yes, as a resident of CA I’m aware of the law. I don’t know what part of the state Gregor lives in, but I do know that if you try that anywhere in the LA area you’ll find yourself spreadeagled on the ground with a gun in your ear surrounded by LEO. I believe it was on this blog a week or two back there was something about some cop in a town just south of San Francisco stating on I think his facebook page to another cop about this very same thing.
McCain Hater on February 22, 2010 at 8:23 PM
Better to use the money to buy a shotgun.
And your own fire extinguisher. A good one.
Sherman1864 on February 22, 2010 at 8:38 PM
It looks like the “Wild West” to me . . . .Regression?
Sherman1864 on February 22, 2010 at 8:40 PM
Imagine some of the officials being in an accident, and a member of their constituency seeing said accident and then deciding they are not worth the 300 charge……….
I think that is considered poetic justice.
RealMc on February 22, 2010 at 8:54 PM
So how many calls will not be made in poor communities. And since many of the poor communities are predominantly black does that mean there is a racial component to this. (unintentional or not)
Oh you’re having chest pains sorry I can’t afford the call to 911. Someone braking into your house I’m not calling because it’ll cost me $300.00. Traffic accident I guess they’ll sit there until a cop happens to pass by.
This is a bad idea. Besides aren’t taxes supposed to be paying for this service? Unless they plan to cut out those taxes.
Now here’s a question, would you rather pay $48 per year vs the taxes they are charging for that service? Of course it depends on which would bring in more revenue? I suspect the taxes for that service is less than the $48 per year.
RonAck on February 22, 2010 at 8:57 PM
Now you’re just being stupid, and obviously not paying attention.
I can remove my handgun, load the magazine, and chamber a round long before you can pick up your rock, cock your arm, and let it go. And that’s assuming you can even find a rock at the time, and assuming you’re so amazingly powerful and accurate that you knock your attacker out cold on the first throw.
Good luck to you.
Gregor on February 22, 2010 at 9:06 PM
I recall reading a bunch of towns have started charging people who live out of the locality who use various emergency services.
Oh well, sure as hell can’t pare back the overbloated, overpaied, underworked, and overcoddled government workforce.
jarodea on February 22, 2010 at 9:08 PM
Yeah, well you would be wrong on that as well. The common misconception is that California requires you to have your gun locked and separated from the ammunition while driving.
This is incorrect. They want you to believe that, but it’s simply not true. I guess I need to post the links again, since some people feel they should comment without simply clicking the links.
Try again, and again, and again.
Gregor on February 22, 2010 at 9:14 PM
Uhh…load my gun and shoot? Is that the wrong answer too?
Rightwingguy on February 22, 2010 at 9:20 PM
First Aid kit wouldn’t hurt either.
Do butterfly bandages work good on sucking chest wounds?
Rightwingguy on February 22, 2010 at 9:21 PM
Wrong. You’re simply wrong and I’m not exactly sure why you insist on pretending you know what you’re talking about.
Los Angeles has the same laws as the rest of the state. Maybe you might believe the Los Angeles District Attorney’s office? You think?
Yes, you’re right about the detective’s facebook page, and he was dead wrong and he’s in serious trouble, and in jeopardy of losing his job right now.
Are you going to say that you’re right, and every California District Attorney and law enforcement agency is wrong?
Gregor on February 22, 2010 at 9:24 PM
All right, that’s it. Where’s MadCon. He’s the resident gun expert (don’t tell him I said that). He’ll know about this….
Rightwingguy on February 22, 2010 at 9:26 PM
As I said earlier I don’t know what part of CA you live in, but I would really like to see you in LA, say in WATTS or east LA or even the valley with your open carry pistol unloaded. You would be spreadeagled on the ground with a gun in your ear so fast you wouldn’t know what happened, that is if you weren’t shot first. Let me know ahead of time and I’ll be there with a video camera and tape it for posterity.
No I don’t believe you can take a clip out of a pouch, pocket, belt whatever and shove in your pistol and be ready to fire in the two seconds you claim.
McCain Hater on February 22, 2010 at 9:27 PM
Man, East LA? I’d hate to live where you live or frequent or whatever…..
Rightwingguy on February 22, 2010 at 9:29 PM
Gregor, while your fight against Cali’s stupidity is commendable, Cali gun laws do suck. In half the nation you can open carry with a loaded firearm, and in about 40 states you can have a normal-capacity magazine.
The cop who said he’d shoot open carry advocates when they’re on the ground was in Palo Alto:
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_14361484?source=most_viewed
In every state I’ve lived in except Cali, I could carry a normal handgun (without a loaded chamber indicator, magazine (un)safety, and neutered 10-round magazine) and it was no real hassle. Most of them I could open carry if I chose.
If carrying an empty weapon with a magazine in reach was such a great idea, LEOs would do it, too. If it’s all that’s legal in Cali, it certainly beats nothing, but it ain’t great.
CPL 310 on February 22, 2010 at 9:30 PM
O.k. While we are putting together hypothetical situations:
Man on the Moon, you wouldn’t last a second. And forget Mars with all those crazy martians ‘an stuff. You try open carrying there and you’ll get yourself hurt.
Rightwingguy on February 22, 2010 at 9:32 PM
Maybe. Maybe not. The problem is that in California, as with almost every other state, gun owners are lied to by law enforcement. In some cases, law enforcement is not even aware of the actual laws. This has changed in California now, due to several open carry groups pushing the issue. All law enforcement agencies in the state have issued bulletins and alerted officers to the correct laws, but most gun owners are still unaware and believe they are not allowed to open carry.
I’ve provided links to these bulletins, both from law enforcement and the LA District Attorney.
MadisonConservative may, or may not be aware, but hopefully all gun owners will become aware of this soon enough.
Gregor on February 22, 2010 at 9:33 PM
No. As I stated before, I’m aware of the law. How many cops are just going to ignore you walking around with a gun on your hip? I don’t think any will. If you don’t think you’ll be spreadeagled on the ground with a cops gun in your ear I think your being very foolish.
McCain Hater on February 22, 2010 at 9:35 PM
That was just used as an example. I moved out of the San Fernando valley about 40 years ago, and now reside in Northern Tijuana…formerly known as San Diego. :-)
McCain Hater on February 22, 2010 at 9:42 PM
I can’t wait for CollieFornia to go belly up, AHHHHnold.
disa on February 22, 2010 at 9:42 PM
I now realize you’re simply an idiot and like to argue. You obviously haven’t bothered to read a single link that I’ve provided, and you quote me incorrectly. I stated that you’re allowed to have a loaded magazine on your belt (or somewhere else openly visible).
As people who know me are aware, I’m really big on backing my words with money. Care to put some money on your lack of faith in that speed? How about $1000? $5000?
Just in case you somehow missed ALL those other links, here’s one for you, specifically related to open carry in Los Angeles.
Yes. Once again. You’re wrong.
Gregor on February 22, 2010 at 9:42 PM
You’ll get no argument from me on that one.
Gregor on February 22, 2010 at 9:44 PM
San Diego’s a nice place. At least what I saw when I went to the Navy base there.
Rightwingguy on February 22, 2010 at 9:47 PM
I actually wish you were correct. I can use the money I’d eventually receive from the lawsuit. If you bothered to read the law and policies contained in all of the links I gave you, you would realize that this action would make me a rich man.
And no, as you stated before, you are definitely NOT aware of the law. That much is clear.
Gregor on February 22, 2010 at 9:48 PM
Yes I read that also. OK your walking down the street with your pistol in a holster on your hip. You have a loaded clip (my M16 had a magazine) stuck in your belt so it’s plainly visible. I don’t know what type of pistol your carrying but since it uses a clip I figure it’s a semi auto and not a revolver. I’m not going to go back and look right now, but as I recall you stated it would take you two seconds to get that clip out of your belt, stick it in the pistol, cock the pistol and be ready to fire in two seconds. Man you are one fast dude!
McCain Hater on February 22, 2010 at 10:01 PM
McCain Hater, I just want to apologize for calling you an idiot. It was uncalled for. The fact is, most California gun owners are unaware of their rights.
I’m done for the night.
Gregor on February 22, 2010 at 10:01 PM
Fox and Friends kept saying the same thing what you are saying; wasn’t anyone listening to the facts. The charge is for the response not the call. I don’t agree with even that, but the facts are not what you think.
amr on February 22, 2010 at 10:02 PM
If I really need 911, I think I’ll be glad to pay the $300.
If I don’t need 911, I’ll be happy I didn’t pay $50 for something I’ll never use.
James on February 22, 2010 at 10:03 PM
No apology needed, I’ve certainly been called a lot worse during my 12 years in the Marine Corps. Have a nice evening.
McCain Hater on February 22, 2010 at 10:06 PM
Oohra, devildong.
Rightwingguy on February 22, 2010 at 10:13 PM
Thank you. I’m a noload (no longer on active duty) Marine now. I was placed on the disability retired list Jan 31 1970. God, it doesn’t seem like 40 years ago LOL
McCain Hater on February 22, 2010 at 10:21 PM
Hmmm…I just noticed the spelling. I’ll take that as a typo and not an intended insult.
McCain Hater on February 22, 2010 at 10:27 PM
Uhhh….oh man…..yes, that is supposed to say “DEVILDOG”.
Sorry, long day.
Rightwingguy on February 22, 2010 at 10:29 PM
I do have to say, that is a REALLY unfortunate typo….
Note to self: use spell-check more….
Rightwingguy on February 22, 2010 at 10:34 PM
I read report years ago that New Orleans had decided that the easiest way to save money in a financial crisis was to stop their morgue from processing bodies. After all, when big government is forced to cut services due to tax-payer outrage they first turn to whatever the taxpayer doesn’t want cut, not what they’d be happy to see disappear. Like when school districts cut the football team ahead of a few, extra assistant drones in the bureaucracy.
Fred 2 on February 22, 2010 at 11:40 PM
It will be free to illegal aliens, despite the fact that they call in on their iphones.
PC14 on February 23, 2010 at 12:40 AM
It seems to me that the council member that was interviewed needs to be replaced PRONTO!
If they do not have enough money to send the high paid union guys out for medical alerts then they should simply fire them all and hire a new staff that they can afford.
Of course, this will never happen as the entire point of this councilman is to drum up support for ever higher taxes so he can pay the unions and they can pay his campaign and he can get re-elected. Absolutely the ONLY way these idiotic government workers think.
Freddy on February 23, 2010 at 12:56 AM
Tempest in a teapot. In the ambulance service district that I am in, if you are treated and transported by an ambulance the charge runs to $700 to $900. But I live in a pretty low cost area.Your insurance will also be billed for any drugs that were administered as well, such as bandages, saline, etc. Your taxes don\’t come anywhere close to covering the cost.But! (There\’s always a \’but\’)About 20-30 % of the charges are written off because of inability to pay. Nor are there any charges if you are not transported.We too have insurance you can buy that will cover the costs for the ambulance that your insurance does not cover.There\’s nothing unusual about Tracy, unless it\’s the fact that they\’re just instituting this.
schmuck281 on February 23, 2010 at 1:39 AM
How much of the budget shortfall is due to the pension entitlements of staff.
davod on February 23, 2010 at 8:12 AM
Look for fees for all kinds of services formerly considered part of the job of the state or city.
AnninCA on February 23, 2010 at 8:12 AM
As a native from California (key word is from) and having lived in the same region of California as Tracy, I do not find such action as ludicrous for those living or surviving in Tracy.
This is a way of life for California. The State spends itself into oblivion and who pays, the public who do not have the capacity or right to approval/disapproval the action when conceived. They have to wait until the next election cycle to find a person that will speak for them not at them.
I am surprised that the local Board or whatever its moniker, did not just say it will cost $911 or any variation, depending on where they want to place the decimal point.
This is liberalization at its finest. King George was the reason we created U.S.. Now, it is not King George who we need to fear it is King Government.
Our founders created U.S. as a representative Republic. Today that form of governance has been convoluted into Rule by Representatives. Therefore, we need to consider how to reverse this situation. If we cannot change how we are represented, we need to change the rules of how we are represented.
Today, it is our representatives who are telling U.S. what to think or do to improve their way of life. We need to revive the original concept, which is to have our chosen representatives to do nothing until we feel a problem exists and tell them what to do to solve the problem.
Finally, government/politician are not careers. To prove this, find politician as a legitimate job as defined by the Department of Labor’s classification of jobs/functions.
MSGTAS on February 23, 2010 at 8:54 AM
While I understand your point, I would hardly want to depend upon the Dept of Labor for what is / is not a “job” or “career”. Or for anything else really.
Monkeytoe on February 23, 2010 at 9:06 AM
What is being called a 911 call charge is for the medical care that results from the 911 call. They aren’t charging for the making of the call but FOR THE MEDICAL SERVICE PROVIDED AS A RESULT OF THE 911 CALL.
katiejane on February 23, 2010 at 10:46 AM
It’s still a fee they wouldn’t have to pay before. They’re charging the same fee for medical help from a fireman that they would from a paramedic ambulance. Previously you didn’t pay that.
I guess what is happening is they need money and they’re noticing that the hospitals are raking in crazy amounts of cash as the fees go up every year… so they figured “why not us too?”
I don’t know… something is broken in medicine. The fees are going up way faster then the quality of care. Further, the cost of simple treatment has skyrocketed. I paid 400 dollars for a 5 minute chat with a nurse and an advil. Think about that.
I don’t know… maybe get the hospitals to post their fees more clearly or something so they’re more directly subjected to market forces.
Karmashock on February 23, 2010 at 4:27 PM
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