Tax collections: All that’s left is hope
posted at 8:46 am on February 2, 2010 by King Banaian
According to reports yesterday, CEA Chair Christina Romer now expects that unemployment will be 9.8% at the end of 2010, 8.9% at the end of 2011, and 7.9% at the end of 2012. Many liberal economists are exasperated that the Administration is focused on budget reduction rather than stimulating ever more jobs. For instance, Mark Thoma:
Additional fiscal policy measures could make a difference to the unemployed, but instead the administration is proposing policies that might sell well, but only address a tiny fraction of the long-run deficit problem.
Health care reform is the key to solving the deficit problem, but reform is being held up by the party of just say no. That’s the message Democrats need to hammer into public perception, that true inroads into deficit reduction through health care reform are being blocked by Republicans. In the meantime, Democrats need to take care of
businessthe unemployed. Yes, the party of no will try to block additional stimulus, but they fight everything, and helping struggling households is worth standing toe to toe and fighting back.When the next election rolls around and unemployment is still too high, but falling, we’ll hear all about how the administration helped to put us on the road to recovery.
So we get some people deciding damn the deficit, full stimulus ahead like Rep. Clyburn, Paul Krugman’s new friend. But the Administration has turned back on this beginning in October. They will freeze, and maybe make a few more cuts.
Because all they seem to have left to save this is hope. They are clearly betting on the economy improving and, stung by their unrealized optimism of 2009, are now using Dr. Romer’s dour forecast to in essence undersell the program. Ryan Avent explains the dilemma that faces the Administration.
Currently, America is looking at a budget deficit around 10% of output. Mr Orszag noted in the press conference that the administration would like to cut that to 3%. But their expectations are that the bulk of the improvement in the near-term deficit—producing a decline in the deficit from 10% of GDP to 5% by 2015—will come from economic recovery, and the resulting increase in tax revenues and decline in automatic stabiliser spending.
Near-term deficit reduction is almost entirely about the strength of the economy. And nothing anywhere in the president’s policies will do anything meaningful about the long-term deficit, which is almost entirely about growth in spending on health care.
So how could this possibly work? I think the Administration positions itself to benefit greatly from a positive surprise to GDP and employment with the budget. Suppose the V-shaped recovery comes true. Tax revenues soar, and the Obama budget soaks up that money and can avoid issuing quite so much debt in the early years of the decade. I don’t give that a high probability, but it’s greater than zero. The administration uses a 2.7% forecast on GDP while private economists are averaging 3% and there is more than one forecaster north of 4%. (As opposed to last year, I’m largely in agreement with the budget’s economic assumptions.)
So balancing the budget might be easier than Obama is making this out to be. Let me leave you with one last thought. Obama will certainly get a few dollars more out of the wealthy, but did anyone catch this change? He’s not only ending the Bush tax cuts, he’s ending his own.
[Obama] dropped a request to make permanent the payroll tax credit that fattened worker paychecks by $400 per person in 2010. In Monday’s budget blueprint, Mr. Obama proposed extending only through 2012 that credit, which was his signature tax-cut proposal for middle-class workers during his campaign.
He’s willing to raise taxes on the middle class out of his fear of the deficit hawks? Glory! Another campaign promise has expired.









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Haven’t they all?
OmahaConservative on February 2, 2010 at 8:49 AM
And in 2012, he’ll use a possible extension of that tax cue to get middle class votes?
Wethal on February 2, 2010 at 8:49 AM
Are these people stupid?
Obviously.
ORconservative on February 2, 2010 at 8:51 AM
His base does not see $250,000 as middle-class. I do, particularly having lived in CA.
His base sees that group as wealthy.
However, I think the decision will solidify the movement back from the suburbs to GOP, at least in the short term.
AnninCA on February 2, 2010 at 8:54 AM
I call BS on this. Health Care reform is not the key to solving anything in the budget. Medicare/Medicaid is a big issue though, and no one is even thinking about fixing that cause every single senior votes, and no politician is wanting to risk the wrath of Granny.
Johnnyreb on February 2, 2010 at 8:54 AM
So easy to bring jobs back…and with that comes revenue, economic stability, and independence from government….wait a minute, independence from government? I think we have the reason as to why job stimulus is not a high priority…
right2bright on February 2, 2010 at 8:54 AM
What on earth will they do when they run out of other people’s money???????????
huskerdiva on February 2, 2010 at 8:54 AM
In my business, problems with plant material sometimes get so bad that the only logical recourse is what we call, tongue-in-cheek, basal pruning.
We need to throw all of these bums out of office.
OT: in the wake of Scott Brown’s victory in Massachusetts, Jeff Perry just announced that he is running for the 10th District seat.
A Republican has not won in the 10th District since forever – in fact, I cannot remember a time when a liberal Democrat wasn’t in office, starting with Gerry Studds *yuck*. I like Bill Delahunt, but its time for him to go.
turfmann on February 2, 2010 at 9:00 AM
I don’t believe this crap for one second….Anything that this Govt does only compounds the problems.
hawkman on February 2, 2010 at 9:00 AM
I’ve had a little more coffee.
Obama and his merry band of thieves are betting the farm and their jobs in the first 5 weeks of the year, that the economy will recover just because of the passage of time and magic, I guess.
I still think the biggest expiration date of all is going to be April 15th when all these people looking for a tax refund don’t get one because there has been no witholding from their checks.
They really are stupid. I hope they have their eye on the ME too because whatever dinnerjacket has planned, if it succeeds, could end up blowing Obama right out of the WH.
It just seems like the POTUS has been playing a part and it is about to get really serious. I don’t think there is any substance there to handle serious.
ORconservative on February 2, 2010 at 9:01 AM
I’d say sharpen your pitchforks when they start
taxingconfiscating whatever’s in your bank accounts.Forget that; start sharpening them now.
J.J. Sefton on February 2, 2010 at 9:02 AM
I’m personally changing philosophies on taxes. I think using them as incentives, even for charity as in the other thread, has led to an overly complex system that has encouraged a lot of people to cheat.
We even see it on the government level now, publicly.
I am no flat-tax fan, but I am for cleaning this up and eliminating the incentive paradigm. Taxes should be to collect money for government to run. Period.
AnninCA on February 2, 2010 at 9:03 AM
These unemployment forecasts are nothing but a spin of the highest order.
Economic freedom is being strong armed by the clinically insane. I think that fact was not factored into the “predictions”.
Saltysam on February 2, 2010 at 9:04 AM
What part of “cutting taxes for those who employ people,” don’t they understand?
What part of “increased production, and a larger workforce, equals increased revenue,” don’t they get?
Communist China understands economics better than this bunch of idiots.
franksalterego on February 2, 2010 at 9:04 AM
Bingo! Magical thinking at work. America needs to have an intervention with the spend-a-holic dhimmicrats.
Mojave Mark on February 2, 2010 at 9:05 AM
Just like the maximum unemployment numbers everyone was tossing around to get Porkulus passed. Every single one was BS.
Johnnyreb on February 2, 2010 at 9:05 AM
Can’t we dclare Keynesian theory dead once and for all? We have $12 trillion in debt and have bee running massive deficts for 10 years now. Under Keynesian theory we should have the hottest economy in the world. Why are we allowing people like Krugman to get away with prescribing even more deficit spending?
People and business are afraid right now and are not spending money because of that fear. They fear higher taxes, more regulation, and massive inflation. They are hunkering down, going Galt, and rearranging their finances to protect themselves against the maw of Big Government. This will not be fixed until they see government standing down from its war on business and its war on the dollar.
rockmom on February 2, 2010 at 9:07 AM
Amen!
rockmom on February 2, 2010 at 9:09 AM
It’s time for impeachment.
csdeven on February 2, 2010 at 9:11 AM
Just a reminder. Taxes are the only means government has to support the programs that it has enacted.
The first thing that government has to do is actually realize what programs they are authorized to carry out from the Constitution. When they reexamine that precious document they will realize that their actual responsibilities are very limited e.g. military, foreign missions, and very little else.
The remainder of activities are delegated to the States who likewise should only tax to fund those programs that expand the role of protecting (policing and fire fighting) and providing the backbone of infrastructure delivering the utilities of life, water, sewer, and transportation.
After that, taxation should end.
MSGTAS on February 2, 2010 at 9:14 AM
Once again, this isn’t Obama being stupid. This is Obama being deliberate under his vision of how free people should be enslaved for the good of the state.
Fletch54 on February 2, 2010 at 9:14 AM
How can they project growth in jobs when they are doing everything to stop any increases. Small business people are looking at the end of the ‘Bush’ tax cuts and thinking I’m not sticking my neck out right now. The only growth area is in gun and ammo sales. Tagging tax cuts with Bush is not too smart, either, when people are going to start looking for lower taxes, they’ll remember it was the R’s that do that.
Kissmygrits on February 2, 2010 at 9:15 AM
They get none of it. The truth is, and we rarely have this discussion, is that we can have 100% employment under authoritarian rule. When a place like Cuba, or N. Korea ramps up a public works program, well, every body has a job.
The question is, why does their standard of living decrease to such an abysmal condition?
THIS is the discussion we should be having in this country. People need to understand the difference between employment and production, and how the difference in living standards is achieved.
Socialism eventually turns to forced labor as it arrogantly remains in a state of denial.
Saltysam on February 2, 2010 at 9:16 AM
Exactly on point.
Saltysam on February 2, 2010 at 9:17 AM
First of all, Romer is incorrect. This is the same administration that claimed porkulus would hold unemployment at 8% and now its really 22%:
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/how_nation_true_jobless_rate_is_N4E6MjtfhnMcCi537pucaJ
Even the now twinked U6 number is 17.3%, but Bozo’s crew changed even how that get calculated a couple months ago.
The GDP number is cooked also. As I said in the other thread, EVERY STAT COMING FROM THIS ADMINISTRATION IS POLITICALLY ENGINEERED.
I can’t understand why anyone believes what they’re saying and even repeats it! Every time someone repeats that we have 10% unemployment, I want to scream.
ITS A LIE. STOP SPREADING THE PROPAGANDA.
dogsoldier on February 2, 2010 at 9:19 AM
I don’t get any of this. If Obama succeeds on raising taxes on the “rich” (and small businesses) there will be worsening negative economic growth.
I opposed the $400 tax credit he’s ending because much of it was really a welfare payment to people who don’t pay taxes (in the form of a “refundable tax credit”) and because many people who actually do pay taxes are going to have to pay back what they received on April 15th.
This is a freaking disaster, and no dour forecast from Christine Romer can possibly express just how bad its going to be. And it goes without saying that this does not include the inevitable inflationary pressures.
Buy Danish on February 2, 2010 at 9:23 AM
Yet they want to raises taxes.
And spend spend spend.
Anyone holding some $20 gold pieces they want to get rid of?
N. O'Brain on February 2, 2010 at 9:24 AM
raise…..
N. O'Brain on February 2, 2010 at 9:26 AM
Why are you conceeding the argumentative ground that a witholding shift is the same thing as a tax cut?
They’re two different things. Under President Obama’s witholdings shift your actual tax rate hasn’t decreased at all.
BadgerHawk on February 2, 2010 at 9:27 AM
Simple,
Economic prosperity depends on the creation of wealth, and a growing economy.
Gov’t programs do none of that.
franksalterego on February 2, 2010 at 9:27 AM
This was not a tax cut. It was merely a reduction in the withholding tables.
Tax refunds are going to be lower this year because we had less withheld during last year. Not a tax cut.
rbj on February 2, 2010 at 9:28 AM
[Obama] dropped a request to make permanent the payroll tax credit that fattened worker paychecks by $400 per person in 2010.
….
Fattened?
Sheesh!
artist on February 2, 2010 at 9:30 AM
Absolutely, everything coming out of the swamp of DC is a lie. But people are buying it.
The tax increase here in OR was instructive. People are absolutely convinced that higher taxes will solve everything, in the meantime the politicians are back in Salem discussing taxing plastic grocery bags. Blogs are full of people saying to give the spending the time it needs to correct the messes left by Bush.
I’m not kidding.
ORconservative on February 2, 2010 at 9:30 AM
Thank you. It pains me to watch people just give up this kind of ground in an argument.
It’s like watching people argue on tv over whether or not the stimulus worked. It doesn’t matter if it worked – IT’S STEALING FROM THE FUTURE TO PROP UP THE PRESENT, and doing so in an extremely inefficient manner. It could save 10 million jobs and still be a bad idea.
President Obama hasn’t cut taxes for the middle class. At all.
BadgerHawk on February 2, 2010 at 9:31 AM
Here’s his reasoning on that:
Cap-and-trade is dead, so, now too is that revenue stream. He never calculated that he wouldn’t get something passed. I wonder what the new “way” is to compensate the middle-class.
Patriot Vet on February 2, 2010 at 9:33 AM
Dear Liar will make all His speeches available for people to download. iPod not included.
rbj on February 2, 2010 at 9:43 AM
Nice use of free clip art in the title.
Sharke on February 2, 2010 at 9:43 AM
Thanks for that reminder. Of course the idea that $400 a year was going to cover the increased energy costs Cap & Trade would inflict was farcical from the start. Moreover, the original plan reduced the credit beginning in January 2010, so it made even less sense from that perspective.
f.w.i.w., Blue Dog Democrats need to be hit hard with calls from constituents about this disastrous budget. My Reps are all conservatives so there’s nothing I can do to contribute in that regard.
Buy Danish on February 2, 2010 at 9:43 AM
I don’t think they have a new way to compensate the middle class. Whatever the hell that means.
I think they are scrambling and flying by the seat of their pants.
Crap and tax was supposed to pay offf big for the select few, same with healthcare. Without that paydirt they are in trouble from both sides and their magic mystery numbers are the only thing stopping a revolt from both sides.
This guy makes Carter look like a flipping saint.
ORconservative on February 2, 2010 at 9:45 AM
Someone forgot to tell them that Keynesian economics died in 1981.
Vashta.Nerada on February 2, 2010 at 9:48 AM
Bush/republicans unemployment: 4.5%
Obama/democrats unemployment: 10%? 17.5%? 22%?
This is something we should continue to hammer home.
18-1 on February 2, 2010 at 9:48 AM
Oxymoron.
Count to 10 on February 2, 2010 at 9:50 AM
Is the withholding reduction separate? An actual tax credit would be something different — it would apply at tax time.
Well, regardless, a tax credit isn’t a tax rate cut, it’s just cutting a check to everyone that qualifies, so the reality is that it is just more spending.
Count to 10 on February 2, 2010 at 9:54 AM
Exactly, and the Dems should be very afraid. I suspect that a significant number of those 15+ million unemployed know the real truth and will be finding their way to the ballot box in November.
Yoop on February 2, 2010 at 9:56 AM
So you are giving up your support for Health Care?
right2bright on February 2, 2010 at 10:02 AM
This idiot leader does not understand the simplest idea.
Put the people back to work, and money will flow in like a broken dam…
The government is the dam holding back the citizens from producing.
A producing country produces taxes, stability, optimism, innovation, which produces more taxes.
Unemployment, and high taxes, removes incentives, except to the people who need to scam the system to survive…it creates, disincentives, less taxes, instability, hopelessness, pessimism, anger, resentment…
Why can’t this very simple concept be seen by this goof ball in the white house…it has to be something else besides common sense.
right2bright on February 2, 2010 at 10:07 AM
No. What they did was money around with the withholding tables so that about $13 less per paycheck was with held by your employer and sent to the feds. When you fill out your 1040 and do the calculations, your rebate for overpayment will likely be $400 less than last years. (approximately, given different deductions & salary, etc.) I’m not positive, but I think it won’t affect those who get the EITC — i.e. wealth redistribution. Much like Dear Liar’s proposed $20 billion in budget cuts this year and $250 billion over the next decade, this is all about appearance over substance. And a very poor joke.
I don’t know what’s worse, these actions or The Whine’s belief that we would actually fall for them. It takes a very dim view of people’s intelligence to think that we would fall for it. Or the scary idea is that Obowmao actually believes it Himself.
rbj on February 2, 2010 at 10:11 AM
Well there are those who are in the middle class and are unemployed , so their taxes have been reduced.
thomasaur on February 2, 2010 at 10:15 AM
One constant of liberal thought is that the average person is too stupid to run their own life competantly. That’s why they need govt to make all the big decisions.
MarkTheGreat on February 2, 2010 at 10:21 AM
Obama’s budget predicts tax collections around 2 trillion and expenditures near 4 trillion. Does anyone see a problem here? Dems hope increased tax revenues will come from economic growth — good luck with that given the tax hikes scheduled for 2011. King Banaian doesn’t mention that a lot of 2010 “growth” will be attempts to shift income from 2011 to 2010 to pay less tax. 2011 will NOT be a growth year. I’d say the over/under deficit number is 2.2 Trillion for just that year — with no let up in red ink in following years. Obama’s print money solution will turn us into the United Banana Republics of America.
.
These are the numbers:
From 1980 to 1990 debt increased 2.3 trillion (230B/yr).
From 1991 to 2000, debt increased 2.4 trillion (240B/yr.
From 2001 to 2008, debt increased 4.2 trillion (525B/yr).
Obama year 1 looks like 3 trillion, and each year after that looks like 2 trillion PER YEAR. And they fund it with printed money (rather than borrowing in the international capital market). The Dollar will be the new Peso in no time.
Mark30339 on February 2, 2010 at 10:23 AM
Oh yeah, they so botched this up.
AnninCA on February 2, 2010 at 10:23 AM
Everything you need to know about Obanomics is embedded in a statement he gave during the second week of his presidency:
Nothing could be further from reality.. At least, in a capitalistic economy.
Government is a sector of the economy, like a big fat leech sucking the life-blood from all the other wealth creating sectors, and the consumer sector.
So, at the end of the day, it’s not about “Marxism” or “Communism” or “Socialism”.. It’s not even about “Keynesian Economics”.. It’s all about a total ignorance of economics.. Ignorance of “Supply and Demand”.. Ignorance of “Production and Consumption”
Total ignorance of how thriving economies operate.
franksalterego on February 2, 2010 at 10:25 AM
Actually, it died in 2000 when Bush decided to start lowering taxes and raising spending. The federal budget increased by nearly 30% during this first 6 years, amid significant tax cuts. The Cheney belief that “deficits don’t matter” dictated fiscal policy, despite attempts by leaders like Paul O’neil in Treasury to change course and remain true to conservative principles of fiscal responsibility.
The Keynsian concept of balancing the budget when the economy is growing and then engage in deficit spending has been a hallmark of economic policy for both Republic and Democratic presidents. In repeated depression or recession scenarios around the world over the last 50 years, it’s more than clear that in the absence of private sector spending, government spending is the best way to end a recession and restore tax revenues. Cutting spending or raising taxes will only prolong a recession.
Unfortunately, a few things are different this time. First, when the economy was roaring over the last 8 years, the government increased the deficit instead of balancing the budget. Because nothing was put aside for a rainy day, there’s an understandable perception that the government should balance the budget now. Secondly, like Japan in the 1990′s, the US has experienced a massive and widespread devaluation of assets. The effects of a ‘balance sheet recession’ will be felt for much longer than in past slowdowns, making a quick recovery very unlikely. When Japan responded to its economic problems by trying to balance its budget, the result was a quick downturn, leading to even higher deficits as tax revenues tanked. Raising taxes and cutting spending, as much that should have occurred in the past, isn’t the right answer now.
bayam on February 2, 2010 at 10:28 AM
Health care reform is the key to solving the deficit problem? Yes, you liberal idiot the “Party of No” will do everything that it can to stop your socialist libtards in their tracks from taking over health care in this country.
Spending $2trillion on health care will solve the deficit problem. This guy needs to retire the crack pipe!
orlandocajun on February 2, 2010 at 10:47 AM
Has anyone looked at Liquor sales? Based on me alone–I know I have caused a blip somewhere….
lovingmyUSA on February 2, 2010 at 10:51 AM
I will give the president credit for being right about one thing, Washington is broken.
Of course, he is the breaker.
Lily on February 2, 2010 at 10:56 AM
Ann, they didn’t botch it up recently. It was a pig to begin with. They just could not ever get it to stand still long enough to put more lipstick on it.
They were selling chitlins, and telling the public it was bacon.
Yoop on February 2, 2010 at 10:57 AM
And now for some good news!
The 70′s where so incredibly terrible for western counties that it sparked the international rise of punk music.
Real punk music. Not this Green Day crap.
How long until the next Joy Division shows up on our ipods?
Dorvillian on February 2, 2010 at 10:58 AM
Bayam, you make it sound like Congress wanted to do the right thing on budgeting after 2001, but Bush put a gun to their head and forced them to overspend. I agree that the overspending was a huge mistake, but overspending now with tax hikes makes no sense, and guarantees both a long term lag in tax revenue and insurmountable debt service costs added to future budgets. Just follow Reagan. Slash taxes, slash regulations, let companies write off new construction and equipment fast, and target government spending on new assets like off-shore oil rigs, pipelines, roads and buildings (and not on ACORN, Planned Parenthood, AARP or the like).
Mark30339 on February 2, 2010 at 11:01 AM
Diversity is the answer. Once you have the guns get the material and instructions for roll-your-own ammo and a moonshine still. Then find a holler and go Galt.
Yoop on February 2, 2010 at 11:03 AM
My bullets are sharp.
Badger40 on February 2, 2010 at 11:10 AM
One day years from now, a statue will be erected in some solemn place in D.C. The image of Obama will stand strong, tall, and proud. However….by then….even the pigeons will eek out their revenge, because no one will be able to spare even a bread crumb for the birds.
capejasmine on February 2, 2010 at 11:21 AM
Heh…Reuters spilled the beans on the middle class tax hike..then pulled it.
Drudge is playing it up with a pic of 0bama with ice cream.
**REUTERS: Backdoor taxes to hit middle class…
**REUTERS pulls tax story…
Brat on February 2, 2010 at 11:26 AM
The history of Zimbabwe could be informative in this context. Zimbabwe was the breadbasket of Africa, until idealogues took over.
jodetoad on February 2, 2010 at 11:50 AM
Joy Division?
+100!
Love Joy Division.
rbj on February 2, 2010 at 11:51 AM
Speaking of hope being all that’s left on tax collections, did anybody check the month-end Daily Treasury Statement? Total tax deposits for January went down from $168 billion in January 2009 to $156 billion in January 2010 (and down from $181 billion in January 2008).
steveegg on February 2, 2010 at 11:59 AM
I don’t understand how anyone can project economic growth in 2011 and beyond with the current trend. There is another economic bubble getting ready to burst. Commercial Real Estate.
Couple this with the end of the Bush tax cuts, which will decrease capital for expanding business (employment) and decrease disposable income across all income levels. If you have less disposable income, you will be spending less. Fewer trips to McDonald’s, fewer DVDs bought, Goodwill for clothes rather than Macy’s or Dillard’s…all of which will lead to MORE unemployment.
The government is sucking out the lifeblood of the economy through it’s insane policies. I expect the 2010 elections to be a blood bath. And I expect the blood to flow even more in 2012 as voter anger at the Dems surpasses 1994.
ElvenPhoenix on February 2, 2010 at 12:29 PM
To the left Government Spending is the economy. The treasury prints the money and the government is in charge of distributing the money.
lwssdd on February 2, 2010 at 2:17 PM
As the FHA thread makes clear, the Residential Real Estate bubble isn’t through popping yet either.
MarkTheGreat on February 2, 2010 at 2:21 PM
Where did Romer get her numbers? Out of her a$$ like last time, “unemployment won’t go above 8%”?
GarandFan on February 2, 2010 at 3:49 PM
Of course they’re positioned for a positive surprise. All pols will take credit for an improved economy. The problem is that they are doing everything imaginable to ensure that the economy will not improve. The blame Boosh mantra has worn thin, even among the Lame Stream Media.
MJBrutus on February 2, 2010 at 3:54 PM