The power of women and life

posted at 4:52 pm on January 29, 2010 by Doctor Zero

The National Organization for Women has protested the decision of CBS to allow a pro-life ad from Focus on the Family to air during the Super Bowl game. The ad features Heisman trophy winner Tim Tebow and his mother, Pam. Pam returned the kickoff of a life-threatening pregnancy to put Tim in the red zone for claiming that Heisman trophy. NOW has called on CBS to dump the ad, prompting Sarah Palin – currently the starting quarterback of the pro-life team, and a player with serious skin in the game – to respond with a characteristically bold forward pass from her Facebook pocket:

What a ridiculous situation they’re getting themselves into now with their protest of CBS airing a pro-life ad during the upcoming Super Bowl game. The ad will feature Heisman trophy winner Tim Tebow and his mom, and they’ll speak to the sanctity of life and the beautiful potential within every innocent child as Mrs. Tebow acknowledges her choice to give Tim life, despite less than ideal circumstances. Messages like this empower women! This speaks to the strength and commitment and nurturing spirit within women. The message says everything positive and nothing negative about the power of women – and life. Evidently, some women’s rights groups like NOW do not like that message.

NOW president Terry O’Neill says Palin is missing the point:

The goal of the Focus on the Family ad is not to empower women. It’s to create a climate in which Roe v. Wade can be overturned. There are always going to be women who need abortions. In this country, one in three women will have an abortion.

So, the point is that people who think Roe vs. Wade should be overturned lose their right to free speech? Does this principle apply to all Supreme Court decisions? If so, I guess we’d better get started on the Obama impeachment hearings, after the embarrassing disrespect he showed the Supreme Court during the State of the Union address.

It’s nostalgic to read a press release from NOW again. The organization was last seen sinking into the bubbling tar of the Clinton impeachment saga, babbling incomprehensibly about how sexual harassment really isn’t such a big deal when pro-abortion Democrat presidents do it. Like every appendage of the socialist state, NOW has no principle beyond fealty to the political party that grants it power, and the Democrats used to grant them a remarkable amount of power – enough to end the careers of Navy officers and combat pilots, after “investigations” that stopped just short of waterboarding. When NOW talks about “empowering” women, it speaks in the collective sense. Empowerment comes from obedience to feminist organizations, which use that power to drag an oversized chair up to the grim carving table where the Democrat Party wields its redistibutionist cleavers.

Some critics cite unquestioning support for unrestricted abortion rights as the primary demonstration of loyalty power feminists seek from their supporters, but the NOW offensive against the Tebow ad, and their response to Sarah Palin, suggest the true sacrament of radical feminism is not abortion… it’s opposition to the pro-life movement. Power in a collectivist system comes from tribal loyalty, and hatred is a powerful glue for holding collectives together. As with leftist racial groups, NOW has very little positive to offer its supporters these days, so it thrives by pointing fingers at its enemies. Religious people in general, and outspoken pro-life advocates in particular, look very good on the business end of a trembling finger.

The Tebow ad will not call for the overturn of Roe vs. Wade. It’s meant to be a heartfelt endorsement of life, from a mother who chose it against the recommendation of doctors, in the face of her own suffering and possible death. As Palin says:

NOW is looking at the pro-life issue backwards. Women should be reminded that they are strong enough and smart enough to make decisions that allow for career and educational opportunities while still giving their babies a chance at life. In my own home, my daughter Bristol has also been challenged by pro-abortion “women’s rights” groups who don’t agree with her decision to have her baby, nor do they like the abstinence message which she articulated as her personal commitment.

My own opposition to abortion-on-demand is not religious in nature. I believe there aren’t enough people in the world. The decision to deny a human being his, or her, opportunity to enter the living world and make the choices that compose a lifetime should never be made lightly. For people of religious faith, the exercise of free will was a parting gift to creation from its Author. For the atheist, the expanding nova of human choice brings light and meaning into a universe of cold dust and searing plasma. Either way, life is precious, and it follows that those who follow Pam Tebow’s path are worthy of respect. How can we render that respect, if we insist her choice was absolutely equivalent to terminating little Tim, right up to the moment when his head emerged from the birth canal?

We’re nowhere near the repeal of Roe vs. Wade, a naked exercise of raw judicial power… which is apparently so fragile that a son thanking his mother for the gift of life could tear it to shreds. I wonder how many of the other iron laws supporting statism are actually written on tissue paper. If Roe were repealed, the question of abortion restrictions would return to the states, and people contemplating the examples of Sarah Palin, Bristol Palin, and Pam Tebow would gain the dangerous freedom to express their beliefs through smaller, more responsive governments. I can understand why NOW and its fellow travelers would be terrified of that possibility. It has nothing to do with “keeping abortion legal,” for there is no chance Americans would ever vote to outlaw it completely, in every state. It has everything to do with siphoning power from the useful fantasy of a world that will never exist, and the ugly caricatures who tower above it with scourges and holy books.

A society reveals much of its character in the way it treats its women and children. Palin finds common cause with NOW in calling out “advertisers and networks for airing sexist and demeaning portrayals of women that lead to young women’s diminished self-esteem and acceptance of roles as mere sexed-up objects.” Abortion on demand has been very useful for preserving the self-esteem of men who desire casual sex without consequence. Perhaps those men would be less likely to view the women in their lives as problems, if they didn’t know there was an easy solution right around the corner.

The Tebows are not planning to use their Super Bowl minutes for a sermon, or to impose their views on anyone. They only want their chance to testify that life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are not an equation that balances out to zero. The idea that such a statement is unacceptably political is further evidence that our lives have become too politicized, because too many decisions have been bumped to an upstairs office that doesn’t even have a suggestion box.

NOW is mistaking a compelling narrative for compulsion. No organization that demands suppression of the other side’s free speech is “pro-choice” in any sense of the words. Feminists are certainly free to produce their own Super Bowl ad, trumpeting the virtues of partial-birth abortion, or any other practice they don’t think Pam and Tim Tebow support with suitable enthusiasm. Something tells me most people would choose to change the channel during that ad.

Cross-posted at www.doczero.org.

This post was promoted from GreenRoom to HotAir.com.
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Let us watch the Super Bowl without being hectored by political groups.

RightOFLeft on January 29, 2010 at 6:30 PM

Don’t like the ad, flip the channel.

That goes for both sides.

Dark-Star on January 30, 2010 at 5:29 PM

Mrs. Zero sure is lucky.

I hate the bogus stats that 1 in 3 women will have abortions. They need to tell the truth, some filthy sluts will have 5-10 abortions thus tainting all women.

tessa on January 30, 2010 at 5:34 PM

They need to tell the truth, some filthy sluts will have 5-10 abortions thus tainting all women.

tessa on January 30, 2010 at 5:34 PM

Not to mention all the loose-legged teenagers who’ve already had one or two before they’ve even graduated highschool.

I really despise that crowd. They’re taking a serious medical procedure meant as a last resort for responsible adults and treating it like an appointment at a nail salon.

Dark-Star on January 30, 2010 at 5:37 PM

I don’t think it’s all that serious a medical procedure. People have gotten all kinds of nonchalant about c-sections and that leaves a scar and you don’t hear people despising those losers.

happyfeet on January 30, 2010 at 5:42 PM

I don’t think it’s all that serious a medical procedure. People have gotten all kinds of nonchalant about c-sections and that leaves a scar and you don’t hear people despising those losers.

happyfeet on January 30, 2010 at 5:42 PM

I don’t think the kids of this mom think it was nonchalant.
http://www.nuttynewstoday.com/?p=23916

tessa on January 30, 2010 at 5:48 PM

People have gotten all kinds of nonchalant about c-sections and that leaves a scar and you don’t hear people despising those losers.

happyfeet on January 30, 2010 at 5:42 PM

That’s because some people view childbearing as the Holy Grail, and nearly any means to that end is acceptable – even laudable! And of course, the more the better! America has rather always valued quantity over quality…

But on the other side we’ve gotten much too flippant about abortion. Don’t want kids? Use BC or get yourself snipped. Quit wasting scarce medical resources because you were too lazy/inebriated/careless/stoned to use proper methods of contraception.

Dark-Star on January 30, 2010 at 5:49 PM

the thing is though the more people what use abortion services the more available they will be for the people who need them most…

happyfeet on January 30, 2010 at 5:52 PM

abortion is very important for women to have the freedom to have the kind of life they want to have I think.

Norplant/Jadelle is still legal in Europe and the third world but not in our lawyer-infested little country. We’re more and more kind of a backwards little country.

happyfeet on January 30, 2010 at 5:58 PM

happyfeet on January 30, 2010 at 5:58 PM

I often think that there was a very good, excellent, reason my ancestors left Europe, why in God’s green earth do the stupid lefties want to make us Europe II.

tessa on January 30, 2010 at 6:03 PM

Murder, making liberals lives more complete lives with every dead baby.

Well, I guess you got that to give you solace!

daesleeper on January 30, 2010 at 6:04 PM

How sad that some here think that child sacrifice is progressive.

Child sacrifice is the epitome of backwards, uneducated, and G_dless societies.

daesleeper on January 30, 2010 at 6:07 PM

I often think that there was a very good, excellent, reason my ancestors left Europe, why in God’s green earth do the stupid lefties want to make us Europe II.

tessa on January 30, 2010 at 6:03 PM

I remember now, the stupid lefties in England wanted all the Irish to starve to death.

tessa on January 30, 2010 at 6:08 PM

daesleeper on January 30, 2010 at 6:07 PM

They just don’t care, they are subhuman.

tessa on January 30, 2010 at 6:11 PM

A good friend of mine had an abortion years ago and regretted her decision as soon as she left the doctors office. What’s really sad is that she would have made a wonderful mom and will probably never have that opportunity. So if this ad saves 1 life or 1 person from living with sadness and regret, then it is important to let it air.

redridinghood on January 30, 2010 at 6:12 PM

Child sacrifice is the epitome of backwards, uneducated, and G_dless societies.

Sound like you’re as vehemently dissatisfied with present-day America as the little president man.

This always ends well.

happyfeet on January 30, 2010 at 6:12 PM

They just don’t care, they are subhuman.

hey now the world don’t move to the beat of just one drum and what might be right for you may not be right for some

happyfeet on January 30, 2010 at 6:15 PM

redridinghood,

My SIL has had many psych admissions and breakdowns, she has never recovered, but don’t tell happyfeat, who believes the big lie.

tessa on January 30, 2010 at 6:16 PM

Happyfeat, it is the big lie, stop being a tool.

tessa on January 30, 2010 at 6:18 PM

fragile people are fragile I think… my abortion friends are happy moms now with educations and nice jobs and husbands what love them and that sort of thing. They are good people what make the world more better and they all voted against the little president man.

happyfeet on January 30, 2010 at 6:24 PM

tessa on January 30, 2010 at 6:16 PM

With the death of a loved one, time usually helps heal the hurt.
Instead of time healing my friend, she cries more than ever. As the years go by she realizes the finality of what she did. Very sad.

redridinghood on January 30, 2010 at 6:34 PM

fragile people are fragile I think… my abortion friends are happy moms now with educations and nice jobs and husbands what love them and that sort of thing. They are good people what make the world more better and they all voted against the little president man.

happyfeet on January 30, 2010 at 6:24 PM

Happyfeet You are a liar.

redridinghood on January 30, 2010 at 6:37 PM

no actually that’s true, red. Jeez. If every woman what had an abortions was reduced to a blubbering neurotic don’t you think people would have noticed?

happyfeet on January 30, 2010 at 6:45 PM

That’s because some people view childbearing as the Holy Grail, and nearly any means to that end is acceptable – even laudable! And of course, the more the better! America has rather always valued quantity over quality…

Dark-Star on January 30, 2010 at 5:49 PM

An absolutely asinine statement.

ddrintn on January 30, 2010 at 6:56 PM

no actually that’s true, red. Jeez. If every woman what had an abortions was reduced to a blubbering neurotic don’t you think people would have noticed?

happyfeet on January 30, 2010 at 6:45 PM

My friend doesn’t cry in public. Haven’t you ever heard of laughing on the outside, crying on the inside.
Your fairy tale friends, living fairy tale lives wouldn’t tell you because in fairy tales they all live happily ever after. In the real world they live with the guilt.

redridinghood on January 30, 2010 at 6:58 PM

No actually they live with their beautiful childrens and joy.

happyfeet on January 30, 2010 at 7:04 PM

I’m pro-choice, but the ad doesn’t bother me, and I agree with Palin regarding open communication.

NOW makes no sense to me. Why keep the battle going? We’ve had the same conversation for way too many years, with way too many names being flung around.

It’s time to compromise and move forward.

AnninCA on January 30, 2010 at 7:34 PM

.

60 MILLION babies have been murdered (aborted) in the United States since Roe v. Wade.

60 MILLION

Hitler murdered ………… 5 million
Stalin/Lenin murdered…… 50 million
Mao murdered……………. 70 million
US murdered (aborted)……..60 million

Eugenics loving Planned Parenthood’s founder, Margaret Sanger (who was a Progressive and believed in eugenics), said that the “human weeds” need to be eliminated.

Pro-Abortion is LEGAL EXTERMINATION.

Pro-Abortion is having babies brains sucked out of their heads. Having their arms and legs ripped off of their bodies.

Pro-Abortion is the dream of all good Eugenics loving Progressives.

.

ms on January 30, 2010 at 7:37 PM

nice way to trivialize mass murder I think

happyfeet on January 30, 2010 at 7:38 PM

My own opposition to abortion-on-demand is not religious in nature. I believe there aren’t enough people in the world. The decision to deny a human being his, or her, opportunity to enter the living world and make the choices that compose a lifetime should never be made lightly. For people of religious faith, the exercise of free will was a parting gift to creation from its Author. For the atheist, the expanding nova of human choice brings light and meaning into a universe of cold dust and searing plasma.

Dr. Zero brings his A game. Cosmic brilliance.

Geochelone on January 30, 2010 at 7:43 PM

ms on January 30, 2010 at 7:37 PM

They are self righteous goons, they really don’t want to see the remains of those that were murdered. You can’t reach them in this forum, their souls are too damaged.

tessa on January 30, 2010 at 7:43 PM

I think it’s kind of self-righteous and goony to sit in judgment of womens you don’t even know and seek to force them to bow to your theocratic whims.

happyfeet on January 30, 2010 at 7:49 PM

happyfeet on January 30, 2010 at 7:49 PM

Hey dippy, I am hospice nurse, they cry when they die for the children they threw in the trash. The aunts cry for the nieces they took to the clinic and regret, the friends who helped their friend ruin their lives. The men who took their wives or girlfriends. I have seen many times the regret, over and over. All your happy friends could be crying every night.The part planned parenthood never advertisers.

tessa on January 30, 2010 at 7:55 PM

People who focus their spirituality on others always seem to me to be abusing spirituality. That’s so missing the point, at least in my experience.

However, we arrive when we arrive, and not a second before. I try to let those hardballs fly right past. It doesn’t matter to me what some think about my own pro-choice stance. It’s mine. And that really is quite enough.

Sometimes, I’ll even vote against someone due to their stance, but only if all things are equal. There are other political issues that affect more people.

AnninCA on January 30, 2010 at 7:56 PM

Nothing spiritual about real tears and real regret, it is raw and ugly.

tessa on January 30, 2010 at 7:57 PM

oh jeez take it down a notch will ya

happyfeet on January 30, 2010 at 7:59 PM

I guess I never worry too much about what the religious think or how they vote. They get one vote, just like me.

They are entitled to whatever issues they vote upon, too. And, they can communicate in whatever way they think best demonstrates their own spiritual perspective. I’d question the judgment a lot of times. It’s not very warm or attractive, at least not to me. Never was.

I prefer Palin’s version of pro-life, which is affirming. The shamers? I never had much patience with that type in life. They seem very cold and distant from real people.

However, each to his own!

AnninCA on January 30, 2010 at 7:59 PM

oh jeez take it down a notch will ya

happyfeet on January 30, 2010 at 7:59 PM

We never know why on the internet. I can almost guarantee from being alive, however, there’s a reason.

AnninCA on January 30, 2010 at 8:00 PM

Planned Parenthood just bought a six-story old bank building in Houston.

SIX-STORY

It sits between the black and Hispanic neighborhoods. Definitely the two “human weeds” groups that they are targeting.

It is a SIX-STORY MASS MURDER mill where babies are murdered.

Pro-Abortion Planned Parenthood embraces genocide.

Pro-Abortion is LEGAL MASS MURDER.

.

ms on January 30, 2010 at 8:02 PM

that’s a good point… I apologize tessa

happyfeet on January 30, 2010 at 8:03 PM

Can’t take it down when I see it at least 2-3 times a year.
Truth is truth. Nice to sit on a perch and not be in the trenches. Oh and yes, I did raise a kid I did not give birth too, so please no argument about me not doing my part.

tessa on January 30, 2010 at 8:03 PM

meaning it was a good point what Anna said

happyfeet on January 30, 2010 at 8:03 PM

The killing of an innocent human being is the worst thing that a person can do in this life. Planned Parenthood is an evil organization obsessed with the wanton destruction of human life.

Mojave Mark on January 30, 2010 at 8:04 PM

my mom raised two like that – me and my sister… my brother was an accident but we love him dearly cause of he’s nice and also he’s our brother

happyfeet on January 30, 2010 at 8:05 PM

I’m too old to be debating this one. LOL* I was in my teens when abortion was still illegal.

Thank heavens, we’re past that.

AnninCA on January 30, 2010 at 8:08 PM

I did like Palin’s slant on the issue. I really wanted her to say, when Greta said, “Won’t this create controversy at family events?: “Better than bashing Uncle so-n-so. *haha

AnninCA on January 30, 2010 at 8:09 PM

Hey dippy, I am hospice nurse, they cry when they die for the children they threw in the trash. The aunts cry for the nieces they took to the clinic and regret, the friends who helped their friend ruin their lives. The men who took their wives or girlfriends. I have seen many times the regret, over and over. All your happy friends could be crying every night.The part planned parenthood never advertisers.

tessa on January 30, 2010 at 7:55 PM

And that’s why this group was formed.

Glynn on January 30, 2010 at 8:15 PM

I don’t think.

happyfeet on January 30, 2010 at 5:42 PM

I shortened your earlier post, for clarity.
Now, you don’t have to post here.
You’ve said it all.

massrighty on January 30, 2010 at 8:18 PM

Until people move past this, the mistrust will grow. I think women need to stop telling one another what to think and how to think and what to do and all that bossy junk.

Enuf already.

Grown women get to make their own choices in life. And there’s certainly nothing wrong with pro-life people saying, “Think about this.” And there’s also nothing wrong with a woman having control over her own body and her own medical decisions. We’re not vessals to be controlled by others.

There’s plenty of room for everyone’s opinion. But when someone’s opinion meets MY life or MY choices, then I have a real problem.

Tain’t none of your business.

And that is truly where we’re at today, legally. As it should be.

AnninCA on January 30, 2010 at 8:22 PM

oh it’s just Ann I read that wrong before.

Ann is all kinds of sensible I think.

happyfeet on January 30, 2010 at 8:25 PM

Ann is all kinds of sensible I think.

happyfeet on January 30, 2010 at 8:25 PM

Midwestern roots. :)

We don’t take to people bossing us around.

AnninCA on January 30, 2010 at 8:27 PM

I worry a lot more about the pressure on women these days to be involved sexually when they probably would opt out. That part bothers me about our culture.

AnninCA on January 30, 2010 at 8:28 PM

There’s an enforced attitude of casualness about sex. Which is a lot more definitionally european than having birth control choices I think.

happyfeet on January 30, 2010 at 8:37 PM

link for my last comment to avoid confuzzlement

happyfeet on January 30, 2010 at 8:41 PM

Midwestern roots. :)

We don’t take to people bossing us around.

AnninCA on January 30, 2010 at 8:27 PM

I also live in the Midwest, but I would not make such a generalizeation as I feel like like you do. I find moral relativity to be extremely distasteful. I have had a pro-life blog for years and am very active in the pro-life movement here. I have heard every argument and justification for abortion there is. I have heard all the ones you post here. The true enabler of human brutality is dehumanization. Those who support abortion, and I refuse to call you prochoice because if you are not prolife you are pro-abortion, know that in order for abortion on demand to remain in place, it must not bear a human face. A good example of that is the terminology the pro-abortion crowd has implemented through the years. It is never a child, it is an unformed lump of protoplasm, and there are oh so many examples of that terminology through the years. One of the reasons so many pro-abortionists are so afraid of the Tebow ad is that it will have a huge audience and will put a human face to abortion. Of course, Joy Behar says that Tebow could have just as easily been born a pedophile rapist. Her intelligene continues to dazzle. The pro-abortionists are shaking in their boots over the Tebow ad and well they should be. As long as innocent lives without a voice are being slaughtered in this world, my voice will not be silenced. Another comment about the Midwest, I find we tend to be more prolife than pro-choice. Abortion has now become a method of birth control in this country which, of course, was never the intention. A word you will not hear the pro-abortionists utter is responsibility. That has been taken out of the equation.

Glynn on January 30, 2010 at 8:43 PM

AnninCA on January 30, 2010 at 8:22 PM

You have spent many of your posts on HotAir in effect rationalizing your past sin(s).

No matter how much you look away, the stain of sin is there.

It will follow you to the end if you don’t stop the foolishness.

Sapwolf on January 30, 2010 at 8:44 PM

Another comment about the Midwest, I find we tend to be more prolife than pro-choice.

I’m sure you’re right. I simply meant, we tend to be very independent.

I know I find it completely ridiculous to even discuss medical issues with strangers. I’d never allow it my own life.

I think it’s great you have found your “voice.” More power to you.

Unless you’re also violent, as some are in that arena. Then, no, you need to be stopped as a criminal. I wouldn’t assume you’re one of those types, but I also know some people take their passions into mental illness and into criminal activities.

You just never know.

AnninCA on January 30, 2010 at 8:49 PM

You have spent many of your posts on HotAir in effect rationalizing your past sin(s).

No matter how much you look away, the stain of sin is there.

It will follow you to the end if you don’t stop the foolishness.

Sapwolf on January 30, 2010 at 8:44 PM

*blink*

What a silly post.

AnninCA on January 30, 2010 at 8:49 PM

Until people move past this, the mistrust will grow. I think women need to stop telling one another what to think and how to think and what to do and all that bossy junk.

Enuf already.

Grown women get to make their own choices in life. And there’s certainly nothing wrong with pro-life people saying, “Think about this.” And there’s also nothing wrong with a woman having control over her own body and her own medical decisions. We’re not vessals to be controlled by others.

There’s plenty of room for everyone’s opinion. But when someone’s opinion meets MY life or MY choices, then I have a real problem.

Tain’t none of your business.

And that is truly where we’re at today, legally. As it should be.

AnninCA on January 30, 2010 at 8:22 PM

The regrets of Norma McCorvey. Do you see any dichotomy at all in your last two sentences?

Glynn on January 30, 2010 at 8:50 PM

Give ‘em hell Mom

FO all you wanna be rulers of the world.

Caststeel on January 30, 2010 at 8:51 PM

AnninCA on January 30, 2010 at 8:22 PM

Watch this.

You need help. I’m telling you not to rub your nose in it, but because you STILL have a chance to come to grips with your past before you leave this world.

Consider this a Marley’s ghost for Scrooge.

Think long and hard and remember none of us are perfect.

Sapwolf on January 30, 2010 at 8:52 PM

I’m sure you’re right. I simply meant, we tend to be very independent.

I know I find it completely ridiculous to even discuss medical issues with strangers. I’d never allow it my own life.

I think it’s great you have found your “voice.” More power to you.

Unless you’re also violent, as some are in that arena. Then, no, you need to be stopped as a criminal. I wouldn’t assume you’re one of those types, but I also know some people take their passions into mental illness and into criminal activities.

You just never know.

AnninCA on January 30, 2010 at 8:49 PM

Oh, Ann, must you cast aspersions and isn’t abortion itself, most especially partial birth abortion, violent enough? Or have you not had the nerve to look at the pictures. Of course, most proabortion advocates can’t or won’t because it might cause them discomfort. It isn’t pleasant seeing a perfectly formed little human being chopped to pieces. We wouldn’t want to discomfit anyone. The ugly face of abortion is therefore pushed under the rug and it all becomes about “rights.” But only for the mother, never for the child.

Glynn on January 30, 2010 at 8:54 PM

AnninCA on January 30, 2010 at 8:49 PM

I live in the Midwest, and people here are NOT independent.

The midwest is suffering from the smothering effects of private and public unions, overregulation by federal and state governments telling us what to do, high state taxes, and in the case of Michigan, one-party rule by the Dems.

Midwesterners are not Texans.

Sapwolf on January 30, 2010 at 8:55 PM

Oh, thank you for your concern, folks. I’m completely not ambivalent about my own pro-choice belief.

It simply is a decision for the individual and her own doctor and loved ones to make.

I don’t believe in busybody political positions. I have no problem with people communicating their own experiences. In fact, I appreciate that in society.

But that’s healthy exchange to me.

AnninCA on January 30, 2010 at 8:56 PM

live in the Midwest, and people here are NOT independent.

Wow….well, let me say that the Midwesterners in my family are incredibly independent types.

They are my heroes.

AnninCA on January 30, 2010 at 8:57 PM

Wow….well, let me say that the Midwesterners in my family are incredibly independent types.

They are my heroes.

AnninCA on January 30, 2010 at 8:57 PM

They should be, they gave you life.

Glynn on January 30, 2010 at 8:58 PM

live in the Midwest, and people here are NOT independent.

Wow….well, let me say that the Midwesterners in my family are incredibly independent types.

They are my heroes.

AnninCA on January 30, 2010 at 8:57 PM

The flow of your posts is leading to the claim that murder is simply being independent.

Do you see where you are wandering off?

Sapwolf on January 30, 2010 at 8:59 PM

Run the ad, by all means.

The decision to deny a human being his, or her, opportunity to enter the living world and make the choices that compose a lifetime should never be made lightly.

That statement will not stand up to reason. You are equivocating the terms “human being,” “choices,” and “opportunity.” Perhaps the unborn child should get an attorney so they can file an EEOC case.

AshleyTKing on January 30, 2010 at 8:59 PM

AnninCA
As a “concern troll” you are good. For morals and integrity, variable as expected.

Thanks for extending the comments.

Caststeel on January 30, 2010 at 9:05 PM

The reason why pro-choice women get such a bad rep is because people like Ann refuse to acknowledge the possibility that the view on the other side of the issue is as legitimate as their own. It’s so easy to dismiss pro-lifers are religious fanatics who want to control what other women do with their bodies. Acknowledging that they truly believe that ending a pregnancy is ending a life would force abortion activists to face the factual componant to the pro-life argument.

I believe in legal abortion, but I would never call myself pro-choice because I think it cheapens “wanted” pregnancies to say that allowing a fetus that was already concieved was merely a question, rather than an entirely new existance simply waiting to come to fruitation.

Trying to force others to accept the opinion that “it’s not a baby until _________” is just ridiculous, and equally fascist (if not moreso) than wanting to overturn the legality of abortion.

RachDubya on January 30, 2010 at 9:09 PM

As a “concern troll” you are good. For morals and integrity, variable as expected.

Thanks for extending the comments.

Caststeel on January 30, 2010 at 9:05 PM

I never have figured out that particular label. Concern trolls to me are people who “warn” others constantly, like the little red hen, “don’t say this or that, because it’ll jinx the political mood.”

I can’t see that I do that at all. I do like Palin’s stance. I liked her stance clear back last year, when she said, “Yes, I’m pro-life, but come on, I sit down with people in my large and varied family, and we get along.”

I decided then that was a pro-life stance that I felt at ease with.

Now, I will say, the type of pro-life stance that doesn’t invite me to agree is the type I have seen here, which sounds a lot like “Repent!” It’s very disrespectful, in point of fact. It presumes that I don’t know my heart, don’t have a good solid spiritual grounding, and need to have my opinion changed, for my own good, of course.

If anyone is being a “concern” troll, I’d say it’s those who express that attitude.

Anyway, I remain convinced that women, in particular, need to get bast opinion walls and learn to listen to one another, support one another, and be one another’s best cheerleaders in life.

I will stick to that decision.

AnninCA on January 30, 2010 at 9:12 PM

Just in case you might misunderstand, AnninCA, you have no morals or fixed position IMHO. Not a problem as the Greeks appreciated sophists. Go for it.

You add argument here. Good Kid.

Keep on.

BTW I’m not yet in Houston.

Caststeel on January 30, 2010 at 9:12 PM

It’s so easy to dismiss pro-lifers are religious fanatics who want to control what other women do with their bodies.

No, I distinguish between open-minded pro-lifers who DON’T impose and those who obviously do.

The difference is quite easy to spot.

AnninCA on January 30, 2010 at 9:14 PM

BTW I’m not yet in Houston.

Caststeel on January 30, 2010 at 9:12 PM

Cold as heck here right now. Last week, the A/C was on.

And I’m sneezing. I understand it’s allergies. Coming from So. Cal., I thought I was sick! Everyone here just laughed.

So bring your kleenex.

AnninCA on January 30, 2010 at 9:15 PM

Happily, Ann, with the advent of the wonderful technology of ultrasound years ago, the abortion rate started to decline. There are still far too many, but once some women see the movement, the beating heart, the little string-of-pearls backbone, the formed limbs and the rounded head, it’s a little harder to say it’s not a life. But again, this is something proabortionist never talk about.

Glynn on January 30, 2010 at 9:19 PM

Happily, Ann, with the advent of the wonderful technology of ultrasound years ago, the abortion rate started to decline. There are still far too many, but once some women see the movement, the beating heart, the little string-of-pearls backbone, the formed limbs and the rounded head, it’s a little harder to say it’s not a life. But again, this is something proabortionist never talk about.

Glynn on January 30, 2010 at 9:19 PM

I also think birth control became a lot more convenient. There’s a lot of factors.

My stance is simple. This is her decision.

I support that, even those who obviously cannot afford to raise the child.

We can do better in making sure the children are nutured, if we decide to do so.

AnninCA on January 30, 2010 at 9:22 PM

AnninCa
Sigh, just shaddup for a bit. Too much verbiage for a short response.

And so many straw men. It is an elementary losing tactic for debate. Please study the tactics and logic of debate then come back.

I almost like you for persistence. Your technique needs improvement.

HA is improved by argument. You show promise but are not yet equal to the task. We will miss you while you study.

Caststeel on January 30, 2010 at 9:24 PM

I also think birth control became a lot more convenient. There’s a lot of factors.

My stance is simple. This is her decision.

I support that, even those who obviously cannot afford to raise the child.

We can do better in making sure the children are nutured, if we decide to do so.

AnninCA on January 30, 2010 at 9:22 PM

I assure you, I understand your stance.

Glynn on January 30, 2010 at 9:25 PM

HA is improved by argument. You show promise but are not yet equal to the task. We will miss you while you study.

Caststeel on January 30, 2010 at 9:24 PM

*blink*

I’m not really arguing. I don’t care what your opinion is. You’re entitled.

AnninCA on January 30, 2010 at 9:27 PM

*blink*

I’m not really arguing. I don’t care what your opinion is. You’re entitled.

AnninCA on January 30, 2010 at 9:27 PM

Ann, I believe I used the wrong term earlier. I said moral relativism. I would actually describe your stance, by this discussion as normative relativism, that you believe there is no true moral standard to judge others on, so we should tolerate all behaviors, even when they run opposite to our own moral standards. Or as Rodney King said, in his famous quote, “Can’t we all just get along.” Am I right?

Glynn on January 30, 2010 at 9:35 PM

AnninCA on January 30, 2010 at 9:27 PM
Ann, I believe I used the wrong term earlier. I said moral relativism. I would actually describe your stance, by this discussion as normative relativism, that you believe there is no true moral standard to judge others on, so we should tolerate all behaviors, even when they run opposite to our own moral standards. Or as Rodney King said, in his famous quote, “Can’t we all just get along.” Am I right?

Glynn on January 30, 2010 at 9:35 PM

No, I am a staunch supporter of individual rights when it comes to personal medical decisions.

That is just not up for grabs, in my opinion.

AnninCA on January 30, 2010 at 9:40 PM

Planned Parenthood just bought a six-story old bank building in Houston.

SIX-STORY

It sits between the black and Hispanic neighborhoods. Definitely the two “human weeds” groups that they are targeting.

ms on January 30, 2010 at 8:02 PM

You know what they say in Real Estate and Abortion Clinics

LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION

BigAlSouth on January 30, 2010 at 9:42 PM

What you have to ask before you make decisions is… would Sarah Palin approve? If the answer is no then clearly you have to rethink your choices, for Sarah is the Light and the Way.

happyfeet on January 30, 2010 at 9:46 PM

I think Sarah really is offering a good way. I wish more who liked her would pay attention, frankly.

AnninCA on January 30, 2010 at 9:50 PM

Here we have to disagree.

Anyone can scribble inoffensive and unchallenging things on facebook what they know people want to hear. Especially if there’s a chance those people might give them monies and power.

But given the chance to lead, she bailed.

happyfeet on January 30, 2010 at 9:53 PM

G’night Ann. Glynn has an accurate criticism. Accept it and grow. :-)

You show more promise than any other opponent/commentator (sorry, a better word eludes me). I apologize for the “concern troll” but that is IMHO your stage of development.

HA is the premier web source. In America, informed opinion is valuable. Let’s keep it that way.

Caststeel on January 30, 2010 at 9:54 PM

NOW makes no sense to me. Why keep the battle going?

AnninCA on January 30, 2010 at 7:34 PM

Just another advocacy group that can’t let go, and has moved from legitimate arguments to downright silliness. Now they and their cause are simply joining the parade of polarized shriekers.

Its much like the NAACP, who just recently defended the ‘right’ of a sullen black student to wear saggy pants. Apparently that’s what passes for civil rights cases today.

Dark-Star on January 30, 2010 at 10:24 PM

Just another advocacy group that can’t let go, and has moved from legitimate arguments to downright silliness. Now they and their cause are simply joining the parade of polarized shriekers.

Its much like the NAACP, who just recently defended the ‘right’ of a sullen black student to wear saggy pants. Apparently that’s what passes for civil rights cases today.

Dark-Star on January 30, 2010 at 10:24 PM

I agree. It’s like they are stuck in the 60′s.

AnninCA on January 30, 2010 at 11:08 PM

Have all the child murderers established their sham memes yet? And by established, I mean have they convinced themselves of their own bullsh!t yet?

That Great White Throne event is going to be ‘murder’ for some.

daesleeper on January 31, 2010 at 1:29 AM

You’re so judgey.

happyfeet on January 31, 2010 at 2:04 AM

And there’s also nothing wrong with a woman having control over her own body and her own medical decisions. We’re not vessals to be controlled by others.

AnninCA on January 30, 2010 at 8:22 PM

I honestly have trouble with the argument of “my body, my decision.” Indeed it may be a woman’s decision regarding getting pregnant but IMO once another life is created she loses her absolute control. As a society our “rights” are impacted by the rights of others.

Sort of OT but do you think that men should be able to wash their hands of an unwanted pregnancy? If the women can unrestrictedly say she doesn’t want the child, shouldn’t a man be able to do the same?

katiejane on January 31, 2010 at 10:11 AM

Life doesn’t begin at conception? I hate to break it to you, but it does, and science proves it.

WTF?

atheling on January 29, 2010 at 7:04 PM

His point is obvious. Science has never previously gotten in the way of liberal lawmaking, and it won’t now.

unclesmrgol on January 31, 2010 at 10:20 AM

Sort of OT but do you think that men should be able to wash their hands of an unwanted pregnancy? If the women can unrestrictedly say she doesn’t want the child, shouldn’t a man be able to do the same?

katiejane on January 31, 2010 at 10:11 AM

Your point is indeed the obverse side of the abortion coin. If the mother is totally in charge of determining whether the child is to be allowed to live (“wanted”, in pro-choice-speak), the father has no responsibility to support said child, because he/she is totally a product of the mother’s whim, with the man only having contributed a haploid cell to the process. With absolute right comes absolute responsibility, and with absolute lack of right comes absolute lack of responsibility for the resulting outcome.

That’s the side of the coin the pro-choicers never look at, because it is so ugly.

unclesmrgol on January 31, 2010 at 10:26 AM

You’re so judgey.

happyfeet on January 31, 2010 at 2:04 AM

It ain’t me you should be concerned about.

daesleeper on January 31, 2010 at 10:36 AM

Repent!” It’s very disrespectful, in point of fact. It presumes that I don’t know my heart, don’t have a good solid spiritual grounding, and need to have my opinion changed, for my own good, of course.

Ann, if you can honestly support killing your own child, you do need to have your opinion changed. It’s maddness. It has nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with the fact that a new, unique human being is killed by abortion and you’re perfectly fine with that happening. You’re wrong.

There are very few issues in which I will state with complete certainty that the other side is wrong. Abortion is one of them. If you support abortion on demand, you are wrong.

Vera on January 31, 2010 at 11:08 AM

His point is obvious. Science has never previously gotten in the way of liberal lawmaking, and it won’t now.

unclesmrgol on January 31, 2010 at 10:20 AM

Fewer than 20% of Americans favor setting the criteria for rights at conception. Science can tell us that what happens at conception and in the months afterward; however, it can’t teach values.

dedalus on January 31, 2010 at 12:30 PM

In this country, one in three women will have an abortion.

That’s so sad. These people spit out facts, and don’t get how – sticking in something like it’s just a faceless statistic, won’t offend some of us. They need to open their wallets look at the pictures inside. I bet there is at least one picture of one of their children. 1 in 3 that’s so depressing.

Dr Evil on January 31, 2010 at 1:16 PM

radical theocrats telling people what to do drive kids and young adults into the arms of the dirty socialists in droves I think, daesleeper…

Smarmy self-righteous smarmy tools like this Tebow moron are only second to the dippy Palin as the best friend a fascist narcissistic dirty socialist president could have in 2010 I think.

happyfeet on January 31, 2010 at 2:02 PM

Happyfeet, baseless insults aside, how does arguing for life assist a pro-abortion president?

Vera on January 31, 2010 at 2:08 PM

This commercial is not apolitical is it? No. No it’s not. Hence our little discussion. Even the tv-watching idiots will know it’s political… it’s not just the rarefied intellects found here what will pick up on it.

And kids and young people are very sensitive to being manipulated. And what this commercial says is that there are thems what have major boundary issues when it comes to invading people’s lives. And they don’t care how cheesy or smarmy they have to be to cajole you to falling in lockstep with their dorky theocratic strictures.

What party do you think these kids will think these theocratic tools belong to?

Not the dirty socialist party.

Young people really did vote for change, Vera… they weren’t funnin’.

happyfeet on January 31, 2010 at 2:18 PM

…cheesy or smarmy or hurtful… hurtful to all the womens in the room what may have had an abortion… it’s sickening how self-righteously uncaring this sad little melodrama is what these tools are injecting into American households what just want to watch a football game.

happyfeet on January 31, 2010 at 2:25 PM

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