Gates and Mullen to testify about repealing “don’t ask, don’t tell” next week
posted at 6:58 pm on January 28, 2010 by Allahpundit
So that’s why the White House gave Carl Levin a heads up about the SOTU. They’re really going to move on it this time. Marc Ambinder:
Before President Obama announced last night that he would work with Congress and the Pentagon to end the military’s ban on service by gays and lesbians, the White House consulted Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, to sign off on the language he planned to use, administration officials said. They did. “The Pentagon is with us,” the official said. And Geoff Morell, Gates’s spokesman, e-mails me to say that “The Department leadership is actively working on an implementation plan and will have more to say about it next week.” So — Obama’s pledge to repeal Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell was more than words — he’s instructed the military to get it done as soon as Congress repeals the law. A Senate hearing is set for February 2, featuring testimony from Mullens= and Gates. An outside hearing is set for February 11.
Supposedly Levin isn’t sure if he has 60 votes. Will this end up being Scotty B’s first falling out with the conservative base? More from ABC:
Gates and Mullen are expected to discuss steps that the Pentagon would have to undertake internally before the White House and the Congress move to change the law. Gates has said in the past that changing Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell should be a process that’s done “very very carefully” and in a way that mitigates any downsides…
A senior defense official says it’s likely that at the hearing, Gates will also discuss options, studied by the Pentagon’s General Counsel, about ways to ease punishments on gay servicemembers who were outed by a third party. Gates requested that the General Counsel look into the possibility last summer.
McCain put out a statement this morning saying the policy’s fine as is, but in a battle of military cred with the SecDef and Joint Chiefs chair on the other side, the GOP’s going to have to do better than Maverick. Can they? If you’re thinking of Colin Powell as some sort of ace in the hole, think again.
It’s time to poll this one. Exit question: If the Taliban is okay with having gays in the military, shouldn’t we be too?
Blowback
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Ummmm. OK, you can inform them that you dont want to hear about what they got up to last night. Politely. I have informed my shipmates in the past that I dont want to hear about the hooker they got while in port. Same idea.
I am failing to see how that is inconsistent.
Squid Shark on January 28, 2010 at 9:03 PM
jimver, that’s the whole issue, NO ONE Is thinking of how this will be implemented, what will be required, etc. They are supporting the repeal out of knee jerk reactionism. It’s a completely emotional position.
TTheoLogan on January 28, 2010 at 9:03 PM
How is it inconsistent? Gee, if I tell a female soldier/sailor/marine about sex I had with a girl, it’s sexual harassment and it makes her feel uncomfortable. How would it not be the same if some homosexual guy is talking about his sex life to a straight guy?
TTheoLogan on January 28, 2010 at 9:05 PM
If you are supporting your point by what you imagine someone else to be thinking, you’ll need to sharpen your argument. (It’s like saying Peyton Manning shouldn’t get a completion b/c you think he intended to throw the ball to another receiver). If I used the wrong word, feel free to call me on it. I’ll concede the point when I goof.
The Southern states wanted to get representational power in the federal government based on counting enslaved people, who had no right to vote (essentially a government based, in part, on rights derived from property ownership). The additional US House members helped them significantly until the Civil War.
The Constitution and, its authors, clearly recognized that some people living under state law were non-”free persons”.
dedalus on January 28, 2010 at 9:05 PM
people like squid shark, dedalus, etc, have a good solution for how to fix the problems that this will bring:
Bully the huge majority of military personnel who oppose it. Call them names, call them closeminded, send them to sensitivity training, etc etc tc.
It’s going to be great.
TTheoLogan on January 28, 2010 at 9:06 PM
Been in the military for 10 years, nice try though. I can tell you that I have not been in a group shower (outside of the gym) in about that amount of time. Even overseas.
As far as changing, I could care less, there are gay guys at the gym I go to. They are grown ups and so am I. OOOOO he saw my pee pee, wahhhhh.
Squid Shark on January 28, 2010 at 9:06 PM
Now we are bullying you. Jesus you are a whiny little baby.
Squid Shark on January 28, 2010 at 9:06 PM
You’re just making that up. I’m discussing race as it relates to the Constitution and the minds of the founders. There are obvious differences between race and sexual preference, and they need to be carefully considered when writing the law.
dedalus on January 28, 2010 at 9:08 PM
If they persist after you have told them you are not ok with it. Absolutely, but of course I would imagine that just as you are professional and would not discuss stuff like that in front of a woman, the gays in the military would extend a similar courtesy.
Squid Shark on January 28, 2010 at 9:08 PM
squid, I think you’re full of it. But let me ask, do you have a wife, a daughter, or a sister? Would you mind if I took a shower near them, if I promised to turn off my sexual attraction switch beforehand? Would you call them a whiner if they had a problem with it?
TTheoLogan on January 28, 2010 at 9:09 PM
Sure, homosexuals are known for not being promiscuous or perverse… just look at a gay parade.
TTheoLogan on January 28, 2010 at 9:09 PM
Just in case I’d thought i’d add some Navy clarification:
A shellback is someone who has (as stated earlier) crossed the equator from the northern to southern hemisphere (or vice versa) on a ship. There’s a ceremony that used to be “hazing” now, it’s optional for sailors to participate in.
Bluenose is someone who has crossed into the artic circle.
Order of the Dragon is where you cross the international dateline. There’s loads more. See here for details.
Rightwingguy on January 28, 2010 at 9:10 PM
U.S. Navy, 10 years, served in Norfolk and Mayport, would you like me to tell me the duty stations?
Squid Shark on January 28, 2010 at 9:12 PM
And sailors and marines have a reputation for being choirboys, just look at Fleet Week.
Squid Shark on January 28, 2010 at 9:13 PM
Newsflash: There are already thousands of gays in the military.
This isn’t going to become any “I’m here, I’m queer, blah blah” except by the most masochistic idiots.
It means that after bonding with their colleagues, possibly fighting in combat together, representing this great country together, someone can say “By the way, I’m gay.” Without being discharged for it.
I think our amazing, brave, and honorable servicemen and women can deal with it. If you can’t? Meh.
Tanya on January 28, 2010 at 9:13 PM
And you’d be the first to run for a lawyer the instant you heard a joke that offended you.
Who do you think you’re kidding? Like you hold some kind of moral high ground? I know your type, having once been very liberal.
BTW–I suck up a lot from liberals. I hear ‘jokes’ bashing my religion all the time, but don’t go running to the boss with a grievance. But there are feminist college professors who, teaching a class in a room in the Art wing, threaten to sue if a copy of The Naked Maja isn’t taken down immediately–it’s ‘sexual harassment’.
Who do you think you’re kidding?
Liam on January 28, 2010 at 9:14 PM
Bluenose and Shellback, holla
Squid Shark on January 28, 2010 at 9:14 PM
Yeah, I constantly see them running around nude in parades.
TTheoLogan on January 28, 2010 at 9:16 PM
Incorrect. I have heard plenty of crass BS that I didnt approve of, but keep on assuming.
Squid Shark on January 28, 2010 at 9:16 PM
Sure, heterosexuals are known for not being promiscuous or perverse… just look at Mardi Gras.
Tanya on January 28, 2010 at 9:16 PM
Only if they come with sea stories.
Rightwingguy on January 28, 2010 at 9:17 PM
as everyone noticed, squid shark ducked my question about implementation.
TTheoLogan on January 28, 2010 at 9:17 PM
Mardi gras is a heterosexual parade? You’ve obviously never been there.
TTheoLogan on January 28, 2010 at 9:17 PM
Those would not be people that would make it in the military.
But I think Tanya’s Mardi Gras example is pretty good.
Squid Shark on January 28, 2010 at 9:18 PM
tanya and squid shark,
The average heterosexual has how many sexual partners in their lifetime?
The average homosexual has how many sexual partners in their lifetime?
TTheoLogan on January 28, 2010 at 9:18 PM
And then we got what the Founders wanted: an end to slavery.
You are the one who brought all this up, knowing a few things already but going by your own prejudices anyway.
Why did you do that?
Liam on January 28, 2010 at 9:18 PM
Of course you would, neither you nor her have ever been to mardi gras.
TTheoLogan on January 28, 2010 at 9:18 PM
I am sorry, which one? About my wife?
Squid Shark on January 28, 2010 at 9:19 PM
Since you asked 26.25637317293738392….
34.26537152753736382…..
Rightwingguy on January 28, 2010 at 9:19 PM
About the implementation. You dodged it completely.
TTheoLogan on January 28, 2010 at 9:19 PM
Ri-i-i-i-ight. All of the guys yelling “Show your t*ts! Show your t*ts!” for beads are secretly gay.
You’re so clever. How did you ever figure it out?!
Tanya on January 28, 2010 at 9:20 PM
I have been, several times over the years, been to NOLA during New Years as well. There are plenty of Hetero girls and dudes in varied states of undress.
See also Savannah on St. Patricks Day.
Squid Shark on January 28, 2010 at 9:20 PM
Bull. Where in the world did you get those numbers from?
TTheoLogan on January 28, 2010 at 9:21 PM
Which one, help me out and I will try to help you out.
Squid Shark on January 28, 2010 at 9:21 PM
Savannah, GA?
Rightwingguy on January 28, 2010 at 9:21 PM
You brought this up, buttercup. It didn’t have to go as far as you pressed it.
Liam on January 28, 2010 at 9:21 PM
I totally made them up on the spot. Just wanted to see if you were paying attention.
Rightwingguy on January 28, 2010 at 9:22 PM
Which parade is that? you’re lying and you have no idea what you’re talking about. Public nudity and things like that are pretty much limited to bourbon street, because it’s a PARTY. There are thousands of parades throughout the gulf south that have absolutely nothing sexual in them at all.
TTheoLogan on January 28, 2010 at 9:22 PM
dude, go back and read them. it was before you gave me that nonsense about bootcamp.
TTheoLogan on January 28, 2010 at 9:22 PM
Why does the name Squid Shark match so well with the moniker Grow Fins?
Or is it just me?
Liam on January 28, 2010 at 9:22 PM
Lying again. I was on bourbon on new years this year. To even compare it to mardi gras on bourbon is idiotic, and you’re talking about a party on a street that is always immoral and surrounded by sex shops. I said parade.
TTheoLogan on January 28, 2010 at 9:23 PM
Well, a squid-shark is an animal that is a hybrid squid-shark. Probably has tentacles and lots of teeth.
“Grow Fins” is more of an imperative.
Rightwingguy on January 28, 2010 at 9:24 PM
It is just you. I came over from CQ with Ed, I predate Grow Fins by quite a bit. I am also not a Bush-hating Obama voting Dem.
Squid Shark on January 28, 2010 at 9:24 PM
Whoops. that was directed at Liam. Sorry TTheoLogan.
Rightwingguy on January 28, 2010 at 9:24 PM
Well, Bacchus is the worst. Endymion was usually fairly raunchy too. And I never go to Bourbon Street. I’m not a tourist.
Tanya on January 28, 2010 at 9:25 PM
Absolutely!
If our founders were so pro slavery, why didn’t they just begin our Declaration with “All white men are created equal…?” No, they wrote, “All men!”
If someone wants to see racism, travel the world. It’s everywhere! If you want to find a country that once had slavery or still does, throw a dart on a world map! It’ll be there!
America is the freest nation that ever was! Period!
JellyToast on January 28, 2010 at 9:26 PM
In principle. tits, beads, nakedness, etc.
Squid Shark on January 28, 2010 at 9:26 PM
If you think only tourists go to bourbon, you really don’t know anything about the area.
Not to mention, EVERY gay parade is associated with sexuality and promiscuity. You’re naming TWO non-gay parades that are associated with far less. Yeah, good comparison.
Again, what is the average number of sexual partners that a hetero compared to a homo has?
TTheoLogan on January 28, 2010 at 9:27 PM
If it has no effect on how the military carries out its missions and no effect on the military personnel dynamic why does it matter?
The moment it negatively impacts our military it should be adjusted or tossed, but other than that … why waste time on it? Gays have been in our military for … ever?
One Angry Christian on January 28, 2010 at 9:27 PM
LOL. Dude, do you have a job or do you just party all the time? Maybe you are a professional party-er.. Dude, that would rock so much.
Rightwingguy on January 28, 2010 at 9:27 PM
We all know all the people going nuts after the saints game on bourbon were tourists and not from the area. uhhh
TTheoLogan on January 28, 2010 at 9:28 PM
Gays have not been open about it for… ever. There’s a reason a supermajority of the military opposes changing this.
TTheoLogan on January 28, 2010 at 9:28 PM
Would the gay guys have sleeping quarters in the women’s barracks, or the men’s?
Maybe we should try having guys sleep in the women’s barracks and see how it goes. See how the husbands of the women feel about it, maybe.
justincase on January 28, 2010 at 9:29 PM
I would imagine gays have significantly more partners on average, but of course there are plenty of factors that go into that.
How many partners would the average hetero have if girls were all as horny and willing as us?
Squid Shark on January 28, 2010 at 9:29 PM
You better believe when this gets repealed that there is going to be punishment in the military for those who express a moral objection to homosexuality in the same way they punish those for expressing other “discriminating” views.
TTheoLogan on January 28, 2010 at 9:29 PM
This debate centers around two things: Practicality and politics.
Speaking with practicality, DADT works for everyone involved, and all those involved are in the military. Leave them all, gay or straight, to decide among themselves how they’ll handle those within their ranks, on a personal basis.
Politically, the Left demands everyone suck it up (buttercup), and be damned if you don’t like it. Instead of the Left saying to gays, ‘if you don’t like the rules, don’t join’, they say to straights, ‘if you don’t like open gayness, don’t join–you bigot’.
What is the gay population according to Kinsey–10%?
So, like, according to the Left, 90% of the people have to suck it up (buttercup).
OK, I think I have been ‘enlightened’ now.
Liam on January 28, 2010 at 9:29 PM
Squid, homosexuality has always been completely lopsidely associated with sexuality. Back in the days of greece, sparta, modern kandahar, etc. Married men still participated in it for that reason and that reason alone.
TTheoLogan on January 28, 2010 at 9:30 PM
Haha. Nice try. Good night.
Tanya on January 28, 2010 at 9:31 PM
for squid’s benefit:
squid, should straight males and straight females be forced to undress around, shower with, and cohabitate with open homosexuals of the same gender? If they refuse, should they be punished?
squid, should straight males and straight females be forced to undress around, shower with, and cohabitate with open homosexuals of the same gender? If they refuse, should they be punished?
TTheoLogan on January 28, 2010 at 8:47 PM
TTheoLogan on January 28, 2010 at 8:47 PM
TTheoLogan on January 28, 2010 at 9:31 PM
Oh, don’t you know? They meant white men. It was all done in code.
Just ask a lib for the ‘correct’ interpretation.
/total sarc
Liam on January 28, 2010 at 9:32 PM
Tanya, that’s not a try. If you think bourbon street is exclusive to tourists, you have no idea what you are talking about. I’m near that every every single week.
TTheoLogan on January 28, 2010 at 9:32 PM
It really does no good to try and argue with TTheoLogan (I believe the first “T” stands for “The”). He is always right and always knows more than you. For example he was getting on to me because i didn’t know what an “APG” was. I looked in the Bluejacket’s Manual and The Naval Officer’s Guide and no “APG”. I talked to my Navy buddies at work, no one knows what an “APG” is. He’s still right (so he tells me). He reminds me of the poem:
Rightwingguy on January 28, 2010 at 9:32 PM
Why is it every time this issue, or gay marriage, comes up…the strawmen march out in droves?
JetBoy on January 28, 2010 at 9:33 PM
For you libs: What was the last Western nation to abolish slavery, and in what year did it happen?
Liam on January 28, 2010 at 9:33 PM
“Strawmen” in jetboy terms is known to others as “reason.”
TTheoLogan on January 28, 2010 at 9:34 PM
for jetboy to say those questions are strawmen show two things:
1. He has no understanding of the military or does not care.
2. He is being completely emotional and has no answers to the problems that will come.
TTheoLogan on January 28, 2010 at 9:35 PM
More strawmen!
What is the average number of abortions produced from gay couples as opposed to straight ones? Come on already!
JetBoy on January 28, 2010 at 9:35 PM
dude, you didn’t even know people could start at a higher enlisted paygrade with a college degree, etc. Everyone knows that.
TTheoLogan on January 28, 2010 at 9:35 PM
Yeah, that has tons to do with promiscuity in the military.
TTheoLogan on January 28, 2010 at 9:36 PM
I didn’t know the acronym. Mea Culpa.
Rightwingguy on January 28, 2010 at 9:36 PM
squid, are you going to answer my questions?
also, will people be forced to declare their sexual preference? What about those who don’t want to, will they be punished? What if you decide to change your preference?
TTheoLogan on January 28, 2010 at 9:36 PM
No, you said that people who are e-6 or around there have “earned their stripes,” all of them. You can start at e-5 with some education.
TTheoLogan on January 28, 2010 at 9:37 PM
OK, cool. I had to throw that out there. Just me, I hope you understand. Maybe some good conversations in the future, if we might?
Liam on January 28, 2010 at 9:37 PM
Theo…
You’ve talked and talked and talked…and haven’t addressed the issues of DADT and/or it’s repeal. You’re off on every tangent that is humanly possible…having nothing to do with DADT!
JetBoy on January 28, 2010 at 9:37 PM
Is anyone else not surprised that every situation that will DEFINITELY happen and come up, jetboy has no answer to?
TTheoLogan on January 28, 2010 at 9:39 PM
I said “PO1′s earn their stripes” because you said to AW1 Tim “Why don’t you become a Chief and then talk to me” or some such.
When I want to know something, I go to the subject matter experts, who just so happen to be PO1′s. Therefore, I have tremendous respect for them and the work they do.
Rightwingguy on January 28, 2010 at 9:39 PM
Having been in 7 years, I can tell you all of these are definite scenarios that will arise. I would like an answer from you, squid, and you, right wing, about how to deal with them. Jetboy doesn’t care either way.
should straight males and straight females be forced to undress around, shower with, and cohabitate with open homosexuals of the same gender? If they refuse, should they be punished?
should straight males and straight females be forced to undress around, shower with, and cohabitate with open homosexuals of the same gender? If they refuse, should they be punished?
also, will people be forced to declare their sexual preference? What about those who don’t want to, will they be punished? What if you decide to change your preference?
TTheoLogan on January 28, 2010 at 9:40 PM
Where are you–the middle of the Atlantic on a lifeboat?
Come to Buffalo some time!
Liam on January 28, 2010 at 9:40 PM
Seems like DADT is just saying that a person’s sexual preferences are nobody else’s business so keep it to yourself.
In a place of employment, what a person does or wants to do in their bedroom shouldn’t even come up for discussion. It’s out of place.
If a gay guy lets his buddies know and they’re fine with it, they’re not gonna report him. The way that a gay guy would get in trouble is if he starts doing stuff that makes the other guys uncomfortable. But isn’t that also true of a straight guy who does stuff that makes the others uncomfortable – stuff like sexual harassment of women?
justincase on January 28, 2010 at 9:41 PM
I’d also like to know if squid minds if i take a shower next to his wife, daughter, or girlfriend, or sister. I promise I will turn off my sexual attraction switch.
And if he has a problem, he should be prepared for me to call him closeminded and a bigot.
TTheoLogan on January 28, 2010 at 9:41 PM
Oh heck. I hate being called on in class.
TThoLogan, you actually raise some very good points. Those are problems that we would encounter with the repeal of DADT. I have no freaking clue how to solve the myriad problems (you didn’t mention sodomy being punishable in the UCMJ, another problem to open homosexuality). What i do know is this: I believe that any person willing to serve their country and willing to put in the hard work should be allowed to do so. I believe that military service members are professional and are outstanding at working in dangerous and hard environments. I also believe that if our President decides to repeal DADT, then they will find a way to make it work.
Rightwingguy on January 28, 2010 at 9:44 PM
Bingo!
Gotta say Squid, you are one of the most level headed peeps here. Agreeing with you or not, you’re always on the level and conduct yourself with a decent decorum. Cheers.
JetBoy on January 28, 2010 at 9:45 PM
What a surprise coming from captain kneejerk.
TTheoLogan on January 28, 2010 at 9:45 PM
Sure. That’s why I’m here discussing this. Because I don’t care.
*rolls eyes*
JetBoy on January 28, 2010 at 9:46 PM
well as long as you don’t make any moves, I’m cool. I’ll let you know when I get a girlfriend so we can try it out.
Rightwingguy on January 28, 2010 at 9:46 PM
That’s CAPT. Kneejerk to you, mister.
Rightwingguy on January 28, 2010 at 9:47 PM
Squid Shark at 9:29PM
How about let’s find out by having sexually ravenous women bunk with men for a while and see how disciplined and smooth-running a military operation we can have.
Any predictions about what would happen?
justincase on January 28, 2010 at 9:47 PM
Best deployment EVAH!
That’s my prediction.
Rightwingguy on January 28, 2010 at 9:48 PM
The poll needs another radio button labelled: “They’re in already.”
unclesmrgol on January 28, 2010 at 9:48 PM
rightwing, they won’t find a way to make it work, it will cause havoc.
There are far more negative consequences to this than benefits. homosexuals CAN SERVE right now, and they can go home to their boyfriend, go to gay parades out of uniform, etc, etc etc. People like jetboy are intentionally lying about the policy because they are not happy with that, they want to force it on everyone and their mother, and as jetboy has shown with the gay marriage issue, they will attack anyone as closeminded, bigoted, etc, who does not tow the line for them.
I can promise you there will be THOUSANDS of soldiers, sailors and marines that will leave because of this. They’ve already shown studies that it will occur.
TTheoLogan on January 28, 2010 at 9:49 PM
Liberty means not imposing on another Citizen.
Isn’t forcing open gayness on people not ready for such a thing an imposition? DADT covers the personal freedom of those most affected by it: those in the military. DADT has worked well for years, so why change it–unless something else, sinister, even–is in mind?
Liam on January 28, 2010 at 9:50 PM
im out.
night.
TTheoLogan on January 28, 2010 at 9:50 PM
At least he didn’t grab for it, like one kid did at my school.
unclesmrgol on January 28, 2010 at 9:50 PM
Rightwingguy on January 28, 2010 at 9:46 PM
What if Theologian accuses her of sexual harassment while they’re in the shower together?
justincase on January 28, 2010 at 9:51 PM
Not in this economy they won’t!
I don’t know. It will be VERY hard to make a transition if it occurs, but I’m an optimist. Military men and women can tough it out and will make it work (if they need to).
Rightwingguy on January 28, 2010 at 9:52 PM
^^This
JetBoy on January 28, 2010 at 9:52 PM
Well, then she must have sexually harassed him! I mean this is TTheoLogan we are talking about!
Rightwingguy on January 28, 2010 at 9:52 PM
I haven’t heard a good explanation as to why anyone needs to announce their sexual orientation in a military setting, gay or straight. This goes for the workplace too. It really isn’t relevant to the mission so why does it need to be acknowledged?
60% of military personnel are against ending DADT and 10% claim they would not re-enlist if it happens. Of course they should be ignored and Obama’s opinion is the only thing that matters.
echosyst on January 28, 2010 at 9:53 PM
Or, maybe, they’ll tough it out elsewhere and take their chances there.
Liam on January 28, 2010 at 9:54 PM
Wow…..awkward.
Rightwingguy on January 28, 2010 at 9:54 PM
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