Dem sources: Senate “fix” for ObamaCare could add another $300 billion to price tag; Update: Dems ready for reconciliation, says Kyl

posted at 7:33 pm on January 28, 2010 by Allahpundit

The bill in its original form was projected as costing $849 billion over 10 years. Slap on another $300 billion in programs added via reconciliation to placate Pelosi and you’re now talking about a bill in excess of the magical $1 trillion mark.

Of course, that’s only if you use ReidMath. If you use real-world math, where you start counting when the bill finally kicks in instead of five years before that, the original cost is … $2.5 trillion.

And really now. When you look at it that way, what’s another 300 bil on top of that?

ABC News’ Rick Klein and Jonathan Karl report: The renewed optimism voiced by some Democrats over the prospects of passing a health care bill may be just a little premature.

Though House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is saying she thinks she can pass the Senate version of the health care bill if the House and Senate can agree on changes by using the budget process, the price tag for those changes could approach $300 billion, Democratic sources tell ABC News. That’s a figure that’s likely to give moderate Democrats sticker shock.

Speaking of reconciliation, Hugh Hewitt’s been teasing an interview with Jon Kyl where apparently he’ll say that the Senate has finally decided to pull the trigger and go for it. I tried waiting for the transcript, but who knows when it’ll be up. Hewitt’s teaser sounds pretty certain, though. Headline: “The Zombie Health Care Bill Is Out Of Its Grave.”

Senator Jon Kyl relays reports –very reliable reports according to Kyl– that Congressional Democrats have indeed decided to use reconciliation to resurrect the remains of Obamacare, despite Massachusetts, despite the public’s continuing and still growing dislike of the bill, and despite the jam-down ultra-partisanship such a naked power play and perversion of Senate rules that such an approach entails. I will interview Kyl in the second hour, and a transcript will be posted shortly thereafter.

What’s odd about this is that both Landrieu and Mark Pryor made it sound this morning like the bill was in coma and on the verge of death. Any reason to believe them instead of Kyl? Well, Kyl’s claim could simply be a feint aimed at goosing conservatives into launching a hopefully final salvo against the bill and finishing it off. But Pelosi sounded a bit more confident than usual last night. Who’s lying? And who are the lucky 50 who are going to have to swallow hard and vote for a bill that’s likely to be hundreds of billions of dollars more expensive than the public was told?

Exit quotation: “There wasn’t much discussion about the implications if the thing went the other way.”

Update: Here’s the Hewitt transcript. Sounds serious this time.

HH: It’s remarkable, but let’s get to the news of the day. There is some talk that the Democrats are going to try reconciliation, a jam down of their bitterly divisive, and almost certainly wrong-headed health care plan. What can you tell us about this?

JK: This is kind of breaking news. As you say, we’re just hearing it. We haven’t been formally advised, but we have it on relatively good authority. And this would be what they call the nuclear option. This would be we can’t do it with 60 votes, because now we have a new Senator from Massachusetts, so we’ll do it with 51. Now it’s called the nuclear option, because it really upsets all of the tradition and precedent within the Senate which on a really big bill on the magnitude of health care, would always have strong bipartisan support, and therefore the 60 vote requirement really doesn’t matter. But here, using an arcane part of the budget that ordinarily relates to tax cuts or tax increases, it doesn’t relate to comprehensive bills with a lot of substantive provisions in them, but just changes in the tax code, usually. They’re going to try to rewrite this bill to, where it would only need 51 votes, and still accomplish most of what the bill will accomplish. Now what this will do is let the Blanche Lincolns and Ben Nelsons and Evan Bayhs and other to say oh, I can’t go along with this now. And of course, that’s exactly what their constituents want to hear. But it doesn’t matter, because their votes in effect at this point don’t count. They don’t matter. All it takes is 51 Democrats to vote for it, and it becomes law. It remains to be seen how long the process will take, and whether, and how much of the provisions of the comprehensive health care reform that we’ve been looking at can be scooped up into this legislation. But it now appears the Democrats are going to try that.


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 2 3

Prepare to be disappointed.

True_King on January 28, 2010 at 8:25 PM

Wow..did you actually cut and paste this from the Scott Brown election night thread or do you have some kind of macro for pointless, dog$hit posts??

BigWyo on January 28, 2010 at 8:32 PM

They don’t care what happens this November or in 2012 or even 2014. They just need to get this bill passed to provide the biggest middle class entitlement program ever. It will change the face of the debate forever.

In 10 years or so, no longer will GOP candidates be able to just campaign on limited govt – they will be forced to argue how they will deliver govt services cheaper. This equates to the destruction of our capitalist lifestyle and a push to the tragedy that is socialism.

Obummer and Co know this bill will change the political landscape and it is all they care about. Once the monster is passed into law, it will be almost impossible to repeal.

jagdpanther on January 28, 2010 at 8:16 PM

You nailed it. Just look at how successful past attempts have been to curb the costs of Social Security and Medicaid.

ProfessorMiao on January 28, 2010 at 8:33 PM

FUBO.

I don’t think they understand quite how much anger is out there…

Skywise on January 28, 2010 at 8:35 PM

Hugo Chavez and the Castro brothers are cheering this American dem dictatorship.
We don’t want it but hey we are just the citizens.

FireBlogger on January 28, 2010 at 8:35 PM

jagdpanther on January 28, 2010 at 8:16 PM
You nailed it. Just look at how successful past attempts have been to curb the costs of Social Security and Medicaid.

ProfessorMiao on January 28, 2010 at 8:33 PM

The post-Thatcher Conservative Party in Britain now basically argues it can run the social welfare state more efficiently.

Wethal on January 28, 2010 at 8:35 PM

I am weeping for my posterity. :-(

PrincipledPilgrim on January 28, 2010 at 8:35 PM

They are standing on top of the building, thinking about jumping. If i’m on the ground, I start the chant…..

Jump, Jump, Jump, Jump…

PappaMac on January 28, 2010 at 8:35 PM

Democrats are a frog sitting in gradually boiling water … everytime they get an inclination to jump out of the pot they start feeling “hey, maybe nothing’s wrong here?”

LOL

Hate to admit it – but if we want to destroy the Democratic party they’ll need to be successful here in ramming this down America’s throat.

The anger will verge on rebellion. Which is great for us!

Now …

Exit question …

What in this bill CANNOT BE repealed after it’s passed?

HondaV65 on January 28, 2010 at 8:36 PM

RightWinged on January 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM

Apoplectically true. Pelosi (the warden,) said that they will dig through the fence, dig under the fence, or parachute over the fence to get the needed, Healthcare reform bill passed.

betsyz on January 28, 2010 at 8:37 PM

Well, as big a steaming pile of turd as this bill is, this is a great opportunity for the elephants to prove their manhood ( no offense to the ladies ) There are tons of procedural and parliamentary tools at the disposal of the elephants. If every piece of paper that enters the Senate chamber from this point forward isn’t read aloud, in full, then the GOP is complict in the destruction of this country and MUST be held accountable in November.

Seriously, this is no joke. If McConnell and his merry band of Beltway RINOs don’t kill this thing, they should be tried for treason just like the Marxist donks.

TheAdmiral on January 28, 2010 at 8:38 PM

“This is how budgeting is done”

ROFLOLOLOLOLOL

pambi on January 28, 2010 at 8:38 PM

Highplains on January 28, 2010 at 8:10 PM

I’m thinking a congress critter party instead of a tea party. We go to D.C. and toss all the critters in the bay. Maybe then the EPA will have to do something about the toxic atmosphere in/around D.C.

chemman on January 28, 2010 at 8:39 PM

Well, I thought there was lots of anger out here until I saw a CBS Poll saying that 80% had a positive view of the President’s speech. What the?????

mobydutch on January 28, 2010 at 8:39 PM

It looks like the Idiot & chief has folded and told Holder to find other sites instead of NYC to hold the trials.

royzer on January 28, 2010 at 8:39 PM

I’m a little confused though. If they were going to go this way, why wait until after the SOTU? Wouldn’t they want to give their Messiah something to toute as ‘unprecedented’?

PappaMac on January 28, 2010 at 8:39 PM

HondaV65 on January 28, 2010 at 8:36 PM

Just need large enough majorities so that any veto can be overcome.

chemman on January 28, 2010 at 8:41 PM

At some point Nancy still has to get the Senste version past the House. The Senate version has the union carveout, plus the NE and LA pork, as well as the Stupak langauge. I wonder how she is going to get the votes at this point, when she’s looking to lose the House and her Speakership.

She loses Cao without Stupak language and there is a vacant Dem seat in Florida that has not been filled. So her margin of five is down to three.

Wethal on January 28, 2010 at 8:42 PM

I’m a little confused though. If they were going to go this way, why wait until after the SOTU? Wouldn’t they want to give their Messiah something to toute as ‘unprecedented’?

PappaMac on January 28, 2010 at 8:39 PM

I’d guess Nancy didn’t have the votes.

Wethal on January 28, 2010 at 8:43 PM

Has one party ever had less than 100 seats in the House? I mean seriously we could be seeing an election that makes 1994 seem like child’s play.

gophergirl on January 28, 2010 at 8:44 PM

Well, I thought there was lots of anger out here until I saw a CBS Poll saying that 80% had a positive view of the President’s speech.

This is likely because anyone who would sit through that entire pile of dung is probably a Dem in the first place.

Missy on January 28, 2010 at 8:44 PM

A good sign, though: (Reid had his head hung low and not looking at the camera),pronounced, rather miserably, that the state of healthcare reform bill was in a state of confusion.

betsyz on January 28, 2010 at 8:44 PM

The way the libs were clapping and standing at the State of the Union, I think they are pumped up to fight.

mobydutch on January 28, 2010 at 8:45 PM

Wethal on January 28, 2010 at 8:42 PM

My guess is that she actually had votes to spare and allowed some blue-dogs to vote no for political cover.

chemman on January 28, 2010 at 8:45 PM

I hope you are right, Missy!!!!

mobydutch on January 28, 2010 at 8:46 PM

Reconciliation isn’t easy, folks. Everything that’s been outlined as far as how reconciliation works points to a major clusterfark before a nuclear option can be successfully executed. There are procedures that can tie this process up for a very long time. I hope the GOP has the mettle to hang in there for as long as it takes.

joejm65 on January 28, 2010 at 8:47 PM

I have two GOP senators but I dare those with Dem senators to call and ask how jamming this down differs from rape?

PrincipledPilgrim on January 28, 2010 at 8:48 PM

Is it time to start over with the constant phone calls to D.C. or are all the phones off the hook?

mobydutch on January 28, 2010 at 8:48 PM

I hope so too, mobydutch. It is a little alarming, isn’t it? But it is entirely possible that the poll began by asking people if they watched the entire speech. If they said no, the questioner terminated the call. If yes, they continued with the questions.

I honestly believe that the vast majority who would say yes to that first question (HotAir regulars aside!) are probably supporters of the President.

Missy on January 28, 2010 at 8:50 PM

Reconciliation?

Ain’t. Gonna. Happen.

Waterloo.

roscopico on January 28, 2010 at 8:51 PM

Has one party ever had less than 100 seats in the House?

gophergirl on January 28, 2010 at 8:44 PM

Yep, GOP had numbers in double digits throughout the 1930s. If you think only having 41 in the senate is bad today, try 17 on for size. That is the number of GOP Senators after the 1936 election.

angryed on January 28, 2010 at 8:51 PM

I have two GOP senators but I dare those with Dem senators to call and ask how jamming this down differs from rape?

PrincipledPilgrim on January 28, 2010 at 8:48 PM

Its not rape-rape, so its different

tommer74 on January 28, 2010 at 8:53 PM

Just need large enough majorities so that any veto can be overcome.

chemman on January 28, 2010 at 8:41 PM

Well I don’t think we can overturn this until Obama’s out of office. So we’re looking at 2012 here. And … there WILL be a Republican president then since the Democratic party will be destroyed as we know it by then.

They pass this – they’ve slit their throats.

The next GOP President will have a lot of “low hanging fruit” to deal with – basically reversing what Obama has done – or what is possible to be reversed as some things will be permanent.

My prediction is that the Democratic party is about to fracture big time – probably some time after the November elections. The centrists will peel off from the party – or they may take the brand with them – but they are going to get the hell away from the left – who’s leading them off a cliff.

HondaV65 on January 28, 2010 at 8:55 PM

RE: Polls

It’s HuffPo, but I tend to believe that people in general liked the speech. There’s not much not to like if you’re Joe 6 Pack who doesn’t follow every detail of politics. He said he wants to help people get jobs 100 times. Who’s going to argue against that?

angryed on January 28, 2010 at 8:56 PM

But we are going to get high speed rail trains.

Dhuka on January 28, 2010 at 8:56 PM

It’s over, they’re dreaming. There’s no way Nancy can get 218 votes in the House for any health care bill. There won’t be any more votes on ObamaCare this year – stick a fork in it.

PatMac on January 28, 2010 at 8:56 PM

PatMac on January 28, 2010 at 8:56 PM

I tend to believe you and I’ve said since last August this thing is dead. I still tend to believe that but …

Now … I’m thinking there is a possibility that some weird mass hysteria has infected the Democratic lawmakers on the hill – and they’re willing to all drink the Kool Aide for Obama.

Strangest thing I’ve ever seen. Seriously. I mean – I think this ends with a whole party implosion for the Democrats.

HondaV65 on January 28, 2010 at 9:00 PM

Wethal on January 28, 2010 at 8:42 PM
My guess is that she actually had votes to spare and allowed some blue-dogs to vote no for political cover.

chemman on January 28, 2010 at 8:45 PM

Back then she probably did. But then Obama was still fairly high in the polls. After VA, NJ and MA, and his dropping poll numbers, she may have more people telling her they will lose their seats if they vote for this.

She has to ask them to be cannon fodder in her great socialist revolution. Since the predictions now are that she could lose the House (although a lot can happene in ten months), and no longer be Speaker, I wonder if they’re afraid of her as they used to be. Of course, she can still bribe and blackmail.

Wethal on January 28, 2010 at 9:02 PM

But we are going to get high speed rail trains.

Dhuka on January 28, 2010 at 8:56 PM

LMAO, here in MI, there isn’t enough cash to complete a huge number of road projects, so they think raising the gas tax is a surefire winner, but we get 40M to link the center of the Apocalypse with Chicago…I have a feeling the eastbound is going to be a little empty

TheVer on January 28, 2010 at 9:02 PM

PatMac on January 28, 2010 at 8:56 PM

I hope you are right, there is no undoing it if its passed.

tommer74 on January 28, 2010 at 9:02 PM

this is bs

Kyl’s info appears dated, not a sniff of this on well connected lefty sites

windansea on January 28, 2010 at 9:05 PM

It remains to be seen how long the process will take, and whether, and how much of the provisions of the comprehensive health care reform that we’ve been looking at can be scooped up into this legislation. But it now appears the Democrats are going to try that.

Well, we shall see. Thus far the whole thing has been a big fat bust, maybe it go right on being a big fat bust.

Terrye on January 28, 2010 at 9:07 PM

.

They’re going to try to rewrite this bill to, where it would only need 51 votes, and still accomplish most of what the bill will accomplish. Now what this will do is let the Blanche Lincolns and Ben Nelsons and Evan Bayhs and other to say oh, I can’t go along with this now. And of course, that’s exactly what their constituents want to hear. But it doesn’t matter, because their votes in effect at this point don’t count. They don’t matter.

But they do matter. If those Democrats get voted out of office the Democrats lose their majority and they can not play these games anymore. If Democrats try to pull something like this I am not sure that just voting no on this will save those other Democrats.

Terrye on January 28, 2010 at 9:13 PM

The Democrats will count on interim Senator Kirk’s vote to ram this through. That’s why Kirk has voted about 15 times since the January 19 special election, just to see if [Senate Minority Leader] McConnell would raise a point of order. He didn’t. Now the Democrats will simply ignore Scott Brown’s election victory.

Elections? That’s for the little people!

Emperor Norton on January 28, 2010 at 9:13 PM

I hope you are right, there is no undoing it if its passed.

tommer74 on January 28, 2010 at 9:02 PM

Oh yes, there is a way to undo it, it would not be easy, but it could be done..especially since the socalled benefits do not start for years.

Terrye on January 28, 2010 at 9:15 PM

Kyl’s info appears dated, not a sniff of this on well connected lefty sites

windansea on January 28, 2010 at 9:05 PM

Thanks for checking windansea. Good barometer.

Unless they’re instructed to keep it on the QT? Aw man, I’m getting totally tinfoil hat here…

Missy on January 28, 2010 at 9:15 PM

Tar.

Feather.

Repeat until done.

Then start all over again if any of them are fool enough to stick around.

ajacksonian on January 28, 2010 at 9:16 PM

Unless they’re instructed to keep it on the QT? Aw man, I’m getting totally tinfoil hat here…

Missy on January 28, 2010 at 9:15 PM

If they let a guy like Kyl know about it, how secret can it be? Maybe it is dated or maybe they are just trying to see what the reaction would be.

Terrye on January 28, 2010 at 9:16 PM

But it now appears the Democrats are going to try that.

i seem to recall the dems crying foul when the (r)s suggested this option a few years back…man I really hate these folks…

cmsinaz on January 28, 2010 at 9:19 PM

RE: Polls

It’s HuffPo, but I tend to believe that people in general liked the speech. There’s not much not to like if you’re Joe 6 Pack who doesn’t follow every detail of politics. He said he wants to help people get jobs 100 times. Who’s going to argue against that?

angryed on January 28, 2010 at 8:56 PM

This sounds like the same enlightened voters that elected this dolt.

rplat on January 28, 2010 at 9:21 PM

Well, they didn’t have Brown sworn in yet so they rushed right out and raised the debt ceiling to $14.3 trillion. They really are out to destroy our economy. After a big speech full of empty promises. Oh yea, and Obama met with Lobbyists today so it is business as usual.

scalleywag on January 28, 2010 at 8:32 PM

With Brown unseated and Kirk still voting, why don’t they simply proceed with ping ponging amendments in lieu of conference? How could that me any more publicly revolting than reconciliation?

Barnestormer on January 28, 2010 at 9:24 PM

It’s HuffPo, but I tend to believe that people in general liked the speech.

Yes but…they had to watch it to have an opinion. Imagine a poll that asked people what they did last night in regards to the speech. Choices ran:

1) Didn’t watch, have no interest
2) Watched some, thought it was okay
3) Liked it
4) Wouldn’t go anywhere near a speech by that guy

Think Barry gets a majority for 3 and 4 combined? Or even a plurality?

Missy on January 28, 2010 at 9:25 PM

RE: Polls

It’s HuffPo, but I tend to believe that people in general liked the speech. There’s not much not to like if you’re Joe 6 Pack who doesn’t follow every detail of politics. He said he wants to help people get jobs 100 times. Who’s going to argue against that?

angryed on January 28, 2010 at 8:56 PM

I don’t think most people even bothered to watch the thing. I did not. As a general rule the people who watch stuff like this are either supporters or political junkies, most people do not sit there and listen to that stuff. I heard today on some program that 48% of the people who watched had a very favorable opinion of the speech.

I did not watch it.

Terrye on January 28, 2010 at 9:28 PM

1) Didn’t watch, have no interest
2) Watched some, thought it was okay
3) Liked it
4) Wouldn’t go anywhere near a speech by that guy

Oops, add:
5) Watched it, hated it
6) Boring, turned it off after ten minutes

You get the point. It was an hour and a half long, there just aren’t that many people who were invested enough to even know what was said, let alone have an opinion about it.

Missy on January 28, 2010 at 9:28 PM

PatMac on January 28, 2010 at 8:56 PM

How can it be repealed? Even with a Republican president in 2012 to sign any legislation to repeal it, we would need to gather 60 votes in the senate to pass legislation to repeal it (I can see the house passing something to repeal it). The only way I see 60 votes happening is if people stay angry long enough to be able to vote the idiots out office as they come up in 2, 4 or six years. By then though, memories fade for those who don’t pay attention to this stuff.

tommer74 on January 28, 2010 at 9:31 PM

Missy:

I saw at Drudge that his audience was down. I followed the link and was surprised at the numbers, it went back to 2000. The least viewers was Clinton in 2000, the most was Bush in 2003.

But I agree, most of the people who watched that last night were probably predisposed to like it.

Terrye on January 28, 2010 at 9:32 PM

tommer74 on January 28, 2010 at 9:31 PM

I am not sure it would be that difficult. It is not an amendment or anything, a majority could simply do the same thing these people are talking about doing, kill it with the reconciliation process. After all, it is not going to take 60 votes to pass it if they use this trick.

Terrye on January 28, 2010 at 9:35 PM

If they do this and we don’t vote out every last one of these sons of bitches in 2010 and 2012, then I give up on my country.

Elections have consequences. You happy, Obama voters?

jennifernaz on January 28, 2010 at 9:35 PM

Huffpolls?

puhlease…

CNN had a focus group that said they cringed with every mention of hopey changyness

and they were probably all democrats

windansea on January 28, 2010 at 9:36 PM

Terrye on January 28, 2010 at 9:35 PM

I think that works, what goes around comes around.

tommer74 on January 28, 2010 at 9:37 PM

If the Dems thought that they were going to lose elections before reconciliation, wait until after reconciliation! They are so toast!

Christian Conservative on January 28, 2010 at 9:38 PM

And of course, that’s exactly what their constituents want to hear. But it doesn’t matter, because their votes in effect at this point don’t count. They don’t matter.

Boys and girls, this is what a coup looks like, American
Style.

ROCnPhilly on January 28, 2010 at 9:39 PM

did ya’ll see this article at redstate about the conservative gov. candidate:

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/01/28/late-in-the-day-a-growing-movement-in-illinois-rallies-to-the-politically-numinous/

la.rt.wngr on January 28, 2010 at 9:41 PM

What in this bill CANNOT BE repealed after it’s passed?

HondaV65 on January 28, 2010 at 8:36 PM

Well I don’t think we can overturn this until Obama’s out of office. So we’re looking at 2012 here. And … there WILL be a Republican president then since the Democratic party will be destroyed as we know it by then.
HondaV65 on January 28, 2010 at 8:55 PM

I seem to remember hearing about a provision or “poison pill” that was put into this bill that prevents it from being overturned without a super majority in the Senate.

Is this true and if it is(which seems unconstitutional),what can be done about it?????

Baxter Greene on January 28, 2010 at 9:43 PM

Bring it.

D2Boston on January 28, 2010 at 9:44 PM

What in this bill CANNOT BE repealed after it’s passed?

HondaV65 on January 28, 2010 at 8:36 PM

I believe if they use Reconciliation, the bill repeals itself in a sunset. 5 years I think…

Chaz706 on January 28, 2010 at 9:56 PM

These people, velvet fascists, are like pedophiles or rapists. They won’t quit, they won’t be denied, and they will resort to force.

Dhuka on January 28, 2010 at 10:05 PM

I seem to remember hearing about a provision or “poison pill” that was put into this bill that prevents it from being overturned without a super majority in the Senate.

Is this true and if it is(which seems unconstitutional),what can be done about it?????

Baxter Greene on January 28, 2010 at 9:43 PM

The provision establishing the Independent Medicare Advisory Board .

Barnestormer on January 28, 2010 at 10:06 PM

LOL

Does Nancy really think none of her members can read a poll?

rockmom on January 28, 2010 at 10:10 PM

The provision establishing the Independent Medicare Advisory Board .

Barnestormer on January 28, 2010 at 10:06 PM

Thank you for that link….

Also, the Senate could change the rules to rule repealing or amending IMAB in order. But that would take a 2/3 majority. The Democrats aren’t playing by the rules; they may be violating the Constitution.

………….there is no way this is constitutional,it would be used in every bill.

Baxter Greene on January 28, 2010 at 10:16 PM

So many lies? How do we keep track of them?

So many liars how do we know which party is currently lying?

HERE’S A THOUGHT……instead of having to sort thru the liars in D.C. how about we just throw EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM OUT OF OFFICE.

PappyD61 on January 28, 2010 at 10:16 PM

I think that this evil child needs to strangled in the crib, not allowed to become law.

Once it is law, various factions will build “rice bowls” (reward systems) around the vagaries of the law. People will get employed, and have an interest in maintaining the status quo. And, initially, the results will not be so bad that it is unarguably a disaster. That is why CBO only looks 10 years out. If they really did a job, ran multiple scenarios over the next 30 years, then the decisions might become clearer. The UK and Canadian systems functioned reasonably at the beginning. Now they are disgusting.

The fundamental idea is false and wrong, here. The question is when the scheme finally goes to its inevitable conclusion of rationing, poor care if you can get it, and operation for the benefit of the politicians and unions running the system (hell with the patients).

We are dealing with human nature, and this thing should never be enacted if the ultimate and final result is to be avoided. Blather about cost over the next ten years or impact on the deficit are head-fakes.

A monopoly in health-care delivery will arise, and this has little chance of being successful. Government will take over control of a major sector of the economy, and this too will have little chance of being positive in that it adds to the economic vitality of the country, upon which tax collections depend.

Without great tax collections, government must borrow or inflate (debase the currency) its way out of the hole. Chavez just pulled this stunt, to gain a little time. The end is inevitable, and no wonder Hussein muses about being a “great one-term president” Define “great”, Hussein.

Hussein understands the venal people who only look for “what is in this for me”. He said so last night. And this bill is just such a thing that might be perpetuated by that narrow attitude.

We had a hospital in LA which was supposed to prove that blacks could operate a hospital successfully. It was a mess, but the attitude of the workers was they had no accountability…it was a black hospital. It took a Hispanic woman more than a day to die waiting for care, nurses and doctors of color walking past her, to finally irk the public enough to embarass the politicians to fianlly close the fiasco down. I don’t think this kind of crap is acceptable for any person going to a hospital. This is what you get when the staff feel they own their jobs and nothing, but nothing, can change that.

The entitlement mentality will set in on the beneficiaries of this bill, and will be very hard to defeat once entrenched.

Bad ideas from the past should not be tried again. This is one.

It has to stop now. The fight later will just be that much harder, and marxists know this.

Harry Schell on January 28, 2010 at 10:17 PM

there is no way this is constitutional,it would be used in every bill.

Baxter Greene on January 28, 2010 at 10:16 PM

Mr. Justice Alito writing for the majority….

Barnestormer on January 28, 2010 at 10:22 PM

Mr. Justice Alito writing for the majority….

Barnestormer on January 28, 2010 at 10:22 PM

Thank God………

Baxter Greene on January 28, 2010 at 10:26 PM

Among others.

Barnestormer on January 28, 2010 at 10:27 PM

Wasn’t it Gregg that said that the R’s will have lots of points of order and admendments.

The ObamaLeft are trying to frighten people. That’s not to say they are not power oriented enough to do it…but the R’s may be able to stand their ground

r keller on January 28, 2010 at 10:30 PM

Among others.

Barnestormer on January 28, 2010 at 10:27 PM

Heh!

Baxter Greene on January 28, 2010 at 10:32 PM

Update: Dems ready for reconciliation, says Kyl

The Dems have finally realized that thy have been duped into a suicide mission … but they’re going to try to light themselves, anyway. Too bad they’re going to find they are carrying a dud, like the shoe bomber and the panty bomber – two who the dems would have run for President if they hadn’t been arrested.

neurosculptor on January 28, 2010 at 10:50 PM

I don’t agree this is like Medicare and SS and can’t be repealed. They were Ponzi schemes that took a long time to blow and were initially popular enough to become entrenched. What we saw in Mass was just running on getting rid of the thing caused independents to vote “Please Save us” Obama would be defeated in 2012 before it even got off the ground and an obviously Republican Congress elected on killing it could even take them same 51 vote path the Demcrats design to get it into law. I think Reconcilation would raise a battle cry amoung the 80% of the country not liberal that ALL the Dems and Obama have to go.

Conan on January 28, 2010 at 10:50 PM

Shut down the Senate.

Amendment bomb the Democrats back to the stone age.

scotash on January 28, 2010 at 10:53 PM

Who do you trust anymore?

Mirimichi on January 28, 2010 at 10:56 PM

Who didn’t see something like this coming, Obama: lets have a spending freeze, but first lets spend as much as we can.

This is as comical as when they told the states elected officials here in NJ they couldn’t hold 2 state pension jobs, but first told them when the cut off date was, so everyone went out and got a second job.

Rbastid on January 28, 2010 at 10:59 PM

Hate to admit it – but if we want to destroy the Democratic party they’ll need to be successful here in ramming this down America’s throat.

The anger will verge on rebellion. Which is great for us!

HondaV65 on January 28, 2010 at 8:36 PM

At the very least, the ultra Liberals and Marxists will be driven out. It’s OK to have the GOP be a milk toast, moderate party as long as the other major party is as well.

The Leftists are nothing less than frothing, rabid radicals. Oh, I don’t think they’d dirty their hands building street barricades out of cobblestones, but they have their tentacles everywhere in this society and they’re good at stirring things up. Yeah, there’s anger out there, but a lot of it’s being directed at the Capitalists and George Bush/GOP (yes, still). That’s still they’re ace in the hole along with the fact that we as a society have long been conditioned to accept many tenets of Socialism/Marxism.

Also, if things continue to deteriorate we may also see an upsurge from the extreme Right…and I don’t mean the Tea Party attendees.

Dr. ZhivBlago on January 28, 2010 at 11:00 PM

“their”, dangit

Dr. ZhivBlago on January 28, 2010 at 11:00 PM

This is really getting wearisome. They’re goiong to do it; they don’t have the votes; suddenly they have the votes; they’re not going to use reconciliation; wait, they ARE!!!! Hey Democrats: sh!t or get off the hole already.

ddrintn on January 28, 2010 at 11:08 PM

Now … I’m thinking there is a possibility that some weird mass hysteria has infected the Democratic lawmakers on the hill – and they’re willing to all drink the Kool Aide for Obama.

Strangest thing I’ve ever seen. Seriously. I mean – I think this ends with a whole party implosion for the Democrats.

HondaV65 on January 28, 2010 at 9:00 PM

I’m starting to think Nancy has pushed this so long, she has now gone bat-crazy and is off on her own thinking she can get something done. Kind of like that old Biden joke,”You’re a leader? I don’t see anybody behind you.” These people are democrats, they’re crazy. I feel confident in saying there will be no more Obamacare votes this year.

PatMac on January 28, 2010 at 11:09 PM

They are kidding themselves…they have no political capital, nor the mandate to do this.

ted c on January 28, 2010 at 11:13 PM

A friend of mine suggested this latest on the health care “reform” bill is just more political posturing, akin to blow fish engorging with air to frighten off prey.

Well I hope so.

Just as I hope we will have elections in November, despite a National Emergency.

We shall see.

Dhuka on January 28, 2010 at 11:31 PM

I’m starting to think Nancy has pushed this so long, she has now gone bat-crazy and is off on her own thinking she can get something done.

PatMac on January 28, 2010 at 11:09 PM

I think it’s sort of like the slavery dilemma as Jefferson framed it: they have a wolf by the ears; they want to let go but don’t dare.

ddrintn on January 28, 2010 at 11:39 PM

It’s at times like this that the Founders’ wisdom in adding a second amendment really shows.

joe_doufu on January 29, 2010 at 12:12 AM

What happened to all of the HC “back burner” talk from Token? Was that a head fake? Is he REALLY that indifferent?? He will not live to finish this term if he succeeds in this… some one will take him out.

leftnomore on January 29, 2010 at 1:13 AM

Hey Democrats: sh!t or get off the hole already.

ddrintn on January 28, 2010 at 11:08 PM

Don’t underestimate the media’s complicity in ginning up even more anger and benefiting from the resulting viewership. The media scores when people get emotional.

leftnomore on January 29, 2010 at 1:17 AM

I think the Dems will do just about anything to get a framework in place to grow this bill to their liking in the future. I know a lot of people are worrying that if a bill is passed it will be impossible to get rid of in the future. While I agree that it would be better to defeat it outright–I don’t think that if it passes it will be around for long for several reasons:

(1) People will pay taxes upfront for several years without any benefits.

(2) They will hit Medicare hard and the boomers will not set still for it.

(3) It is almost a given that insurance rates will go up almost immediately. A lot of people pay their own insurance or pay a portion of it out of their check. This is not something that will slip by unnoticed. This will hurt and in a recession it will hurt a lot.

(4) Even when enacted, this is unlike SS or Medicare. You are not saving for the future…you are paying for something now. The results of this bill will be plain to see and not something that you will have to speculate about during some undetermined future date.

(5) I never bought the argument that once 51% of the population are getting government kick-backs that the government will be able to do whatever they want. Even if you’re not paying taxes or are getting “free” healthcare you may want to actually do something with you life–government be damned. Just look what happened with the unions in the Mass. elections.

(6) The biggest reason why I see the reform bill as something that will not be permanent is because it is unsustainable. When SS and Medicare started it would take almost a century before succumbed to their weight. The added strain to the deficit by this bill will bring about collapse sooner than later. At most it will be around 10 or 15 years. As soon as the Chinese stop financing our debt and the government is forced to print money and devalue the dollar everything will fall apart. It won’t be pretty, but it will happen.

ReaganWasRight on January 29, 2010 at 1:42 AM

It is disconcerting to say the least, when the government elected by the people considers itself unaccountable to the electorate.

If they follow through with this cramdown, we have a rogue government. If that is the case, the future is very uncertain, in many, many ways.

Join the conservative forum discussion at “ItsAboutFreedom”, by clicking on my username.

IronDioPriest on January 29, 2010 at 2:12 AM

It’s back behind even tighter closed doors. Now, we really don’t know what kind of deals are going on.

mhrepub on January 29, 2010 at 2:23 AM

I’ve said it before on here and I’ll say it again.

I believe the Administration and Nancy Pelosi have something on almost every Senator and Congressional member serving. I would guess almost every one of them has something he/she has done in the past and would like to keep hidden.

For some it might be something that would embarrass them with family or constituents, for others it might be career-ending, and still for others it might be something illegal leading to time served.

As a child, Nancy Pelosi kept her father’s little black book. That was the book of political favors — I did this for you and you owe me. Little Nancy from Baltimore was good at exacting repayment of favors. I have no reason to believe that she hasn’t gotten better at it with every year gone by and added new skills.

So many of these folks are complete idealogues who have been yearning for a takeover of the country by Progressives and Socialists for years. They will hang together but in this case, even if they hang separately (lose their seats).

For those who have seen the movie “Carrie”, the Democrats are currently like the girl under the stage in the gym, chomping at the bit and almost orgiastic in her anticipation of pulling the rope and watching the bucket of blood rain all over Carrie White.

Didn’t turn out so well for those in the gym, did it?

Greyledge Gal on January 29, 2010 at 4:39 AM

BTW, in my last post, Carrie White = The Republicans.

The Dems don’t just want to pass the HCR bill. They have the extra added incentive of knowing that Republicans hate it and they like nothing more than smearing our faces in their feces.

Greyledge Gal on January 29, 2010 at 4:45 AM

Comment pages: 1 2 3