J.D. Hayworth: Where’s the birth certificate?

posted at 3:37 pm on January 27, 2010 by Allahpundit

Via HuffPo, looks like that DSCC memo about making this an issue in the midterms is already paying off. You’re a good soldier, Chris Matthews!

This isn’t going to be a huge issue between him and McCain — there are plenty of other things Maverick can attack him over — but now that Hayworth’s taken the bait, only the very dumbest left-leaning reporter or debate moderator would fail to press the two of them on this subject. Which means more ink for a fringe issue that’s not going anywhere (Obama would be nuts to produce the certificate at this point given the political mileage he gets from it) and plenty of opportunities for the media to convince centrists that the “teabagger” movement is, in its entirety, all about paranoia over Obama being a foreigner. Why Obama’s official state certification of live birth isn’t good enough continues to elude me, but so it goes. I hereby denounce myself for being a RINO. Exit question: FreedomWorks isn’t targeting McCain in the primary? Hmmmm.

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Who would spend millions of dollars on lawyers to keep there birth certificate from being seen?

free on January 27, 2010 at 4:28 PM

MarkTheGreat on January 27, 2010 at 4:26 PM

Read the Founders’ writing on allegiance. You cannot really be arguing that the Founders allowed dual citizenship for Americans. Look at the War of 1812, and what caused that, and then come back to me.

neurosculptor on January 27, 2010 at 4:28 PM

That is what he said to me back during the ‘08 election. I complained to Ed and to Allahpundit, to no avail.

DaydreamBeliever on January 27, 2010 at 4:22 PM

Interesting. That doesn’t make it less disgusting though. I mean the blood really takes it over the top.

Esthier on January 27, 2010 at 4:28 PM

Nobody that I know would be appalled.

MarkTheGreat on January 27, 2010 at 4:10 PM

Gee, I find it very appalling. The framers of the Constitution have only two requirements for the office of President. An age requirement and that the candidate must be a natural born citizen of the US. A natural born citizen is one with both parents having citizenship. This is also discussed in the Constitution. There isn’t any doubt what they meant.

Why would the framers insist on only two requirements? I would say so there would not be any doubt as to who could serve. Why would they insist on being a natural born citizen? I submit that the actions of Barrack Hussein Obama prove exactly the problem they feared.

BetseyRoss on January 27, 2010 at 4:28 PM

canopfor on January 27, 2010 at 4:26 PM

So how many people did I just tell to “Bite me”?

AubieJon on January 27, 2010 at 4:29 PM

We found out more about Tiger Woods in one week than we know about Barack Obama in several years. We know who Woods slept with and when but we can’t find Obama’s records from Columbia.

We know what Levi Johnston does every minute of the day but we can’t know who paid for Obama’s education.

What’s wrong with this picture?

drjohn on January 27, 2010 at 4:26 PM

Please stop: Such common sense and logic on this forum cannot go uninsulted!

sanantonian on January 27, 2010 at 4:29 PM

Why do you think Dems have been happy to let the Birthers go on as long as possible? And they would be happy to see you all ruin everything and let them keep the Congress again too.

firepilot on January 27, 2010 at 4:23 PM

Uhm … Democratic strategery isn’t an object of envy right now. They’re doing everything WRONG. They attacked Limbaugh – because they thought that would help them – did it? Nope. They tried to pass Sarah Palin off as the leader of the Conservative movement too – they though it would help them … did it? Nope.

They try to use birther’s to advance their political fortunes also – and … please remind me where that’s gotten them in the polls?

Oh yeah right – they’re in the toilet.

So before you sling around your opinions as facts – how about backing them with some evidence. The argument that birthers hurt the GOP is a valid as the argument for Global Warming.

GIVE ME ONE CONCRETE DATA POINT THAT SAYS THE BIRTHERS HURT THE CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT – OR THE GOP.

If you can’t … admit this all “your opinion” and stfu.

HondaV65 on January 27, 2010 at 4:30 PM

Personally, I want to see his full medical records.

SouthernGent on January 27, 2010 at 4:11 PM

Doctor/Patient confidentiality precludes me from releasing those without a court subpoena and a fork lift.

Sigmund on January 27, 2010 at 4:30 PM

canopfor on January 27, 2010 at 4:26 PM

Would you like to buy a vowel? Perhaps we can interest you in some handy punctuation marks.

DaydreamBeliever on January 27, 2010 at 4:22 PM

Awww, Sweetie. You’ve been thinking about me.

The Race Card on January 27, 2010 at 4:30 PM

Interesting. That doesn’t make it less disgusting though. I mean the blood really takes it over the top.

Esthier on January 27, 2010 at 4:28 PM

adds iron

The Race Card on January 27, 2010 at 4:31 PM

There’s nothing in the constitution that exempts a person with dual citizenship from becoming president.

mizflame98 on January 27, 2010 at 3:57 PM

In fact, there is.

Read Article II Section 1.

“No Person excerpt a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of the Constitution shall be eligible to the Office of the President.”

Here’s a little more that was posted by the freepers (though can be found everywhere)

When asked to define natural born citizen, John Bingham, the author of the 14th ammendment which extended the bill of rights to former slaves, stated, “Any human born to parents who are US citizens and are under no other jurisdiction or authority.” The Naturalization Act of 1790, also passed by this congress, declared “And the children of citizens of the US shall be considered as natural born, provided that the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been a resident of the US.” Neither of these definitions, one from US law, mentions birthplace, only the parents’ citizenship.

This concept of citizenship by blood as opposed to citizenship by geography is a concept with a long history in British common law. A law passed in 1677 says that natural born citizens are those persons born to British citizens, including those born overseas.

Alexander Porter wrote an article over 100 years ago in which he declares that the framers drew upon this difference in the law of heredity and territorial allegiance to define a third class of citizen applicable only to the eligibility to hold the office of president. According to Morse, “the framers thought it wise to provide that the president should at least be the child of citizens owing allegiance only to the US at the time of birth.” He goes on to say that the the eligibility of the president “was scarcely intended to bar the children of American citizens, whether born at sea or in foreign territory.

The concept of citizenship by blood also precludes the equation of natural born with native born as the latter strictly demands geographical requirements.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2196957/posts

What the argument boils down to is the fact that Obama’s sperm donor dad was NOT a U.S. Citizen. Hew was from Kenya, and a British subject, at the time.

This is not a hard concept to fathom, and it is not in dispute, not even by Obama. The fact this guy was ever allowed to compete to start with shows you how stupid people are.

Had the GOP been on the ball…they would have started in this deal before Obama even THOUGHT about running for POTUS, and basically made that run impossible.

There is way too much written opinion on what does, and what doesn’t qualify and “natural born.”

Obama is not “natural born.”

However, with that said, this is a losing issue for a politician. The left, and our idiot enablers on the right, have sufficiently made this issue radioactive.

This was not a smart move by J.D., not smart at all.

And yeah, I consider myself a “birther” I absolutely believe Obama is not legit. But I also know that nothing is gonna happen about it.

gary4205 on January 27, 2010 at 4:32 PM

It is not crazy to ask for a common document from the President of the United States or a candidate for the position.
It is nutty, however, to not release it to the public when it causes doubt in most reasonable people. Yes, MOST REASONABLE PEOPLE.
Most people go ,hhhmmm? why not just release it?
Everyone of you who stand against this common thought is playing a political game. Either afraid of insults if you ponder the reason behind Obama’s choice to keep his orginal out of sight or using he insulting of others to bolster your own poli-creds.

LeeSeneca on January 27, 2010 at 4:32 PM

So how many people did I just tell to “Bite me”?

AubieJon on January 27, 2010 at 4:29 PM

None. Nobody was listening.

The Race Card on January 27, 2010 at 4:32 PM

Obama is leaving hanging curves all over the place that can be knocked out of the park by any competent candidate. Spending, misplaced priorities, empty suit led by Pelosi/Reid, not the centrist he claimed he was, transparency, buying votes, naive handling of terrorists, still blaming Bush, ignoring the voters….it really goes on and on.

I just have a hard time understanding any candidate that wants to hang his hat on this issue. There’s so much red meat that you can score points with. This just isn’t going to be much of a winner in a primary, and it will be a loser overall. It might be a good platform for a primary if it was a conventional time, but these are anything but. The base, and the country is very much engaged right now.

stldave on January 27, 2010 at 4:32 PM

None. Nobody was listening.

The Race Card on January 27, 2010 at 4:32 PM

You were, apparently.

AubieJon on January 27, 2010 at 4:34 PM

adds iron

The Race Card on January 27, 2010 at 4:31 PM

So not helping…

Esthier on January 27, 2010 at 4:34 PM

Me too, I mean who cares who in command of the most powerful military in the world? Are you crazy? OH, just noticed your handle..in CA… sorry, never mind”

This nonsense even went to having to have a Congressional decision that McCain’s birth in the Canal was legitimate.

I mean, come on people.

This is JUST not relevant to anyone except those who are OCD and got over-invested in some half-cooked theory about OBAMA.

Frankly, you have my sympathy. OCD stuff is serious.

But go on TV on Hoarders or whatever.

Leave the rest of us alone.

AnninCA on January 27, 2010 at 4:34 PM

YOUR information is wrong. They produced short form, while claiming a long form exists, and a state employee claims to have seen it.

RightWinged on January 27, 2010 at 4:08 PM

And we always know that state employees are always honorable. Just ask Joe the Plumber.

mizflame98 on January 27, 2010 at 4:34 PM

Just for fun, do you think the Founders would be appalled at the thought of a dual citizen holding the Presidency?

neurosculptor on January 27, 2010 at 4:14 PM

No I don’t.
As to the crowd I hang out, you make assumptions with no facts. But then, we already knew you like to do that.

MarkTheGreat on January 27, 2010 at 4:35 PM

For me — and I imagine for most others who find the birth certificate concealment bizarre and highly and reasonably suggestive of deception about…something — it isn’t an issue of believing Obama should be stripped of his presidency if it’s found that his birth records are…inconvenient. Rather, it’s part of an ongoing and deeply troubling pattern of deceit. It seems that large swaths of this man’s life story are fabricated, and that is troubling, to say the least. Fabulists write for The New York Times, The New Republic, and Hollywood, but they shouldn’t be in the highest office in the land. And if they are, people have the right to know that.

Rational Thought on January 27, 2010 at 4:35 PM

Who would spend millions of dollars on lawyers to keep there birth certificate from being seen?

free on January 27, 2010 at 4:28 PM

Good thing Zero didn’t do this.

MarkTheGreat on January 27, 2010 at 4:35 PM

The birth certificate is where the left wants you to go because it takes evrybody’s attention from the real issue – that the son of a British national cannot be Commander in Chief according to John Jayn first Chief Justice of the SCOTUS. That is the real issue. Couple that with the fact that he was adopted by Soetorro in Indonesia, his eligibility to be POTUS is certainly in question.

People need to quit taking the bait on the birth certificate and focus on the fact that his immigration status on his return from Indonesia as well as his foriegn father is the real issue.

blaque jacques on January 27, 2010 at 4:36 PM

It’s getting to be a pretty big battle between the rabid left Democrats who hates constitutionalists and the aplogetic GOP who hates birthers.

You guys are working at cross-purposes now, but if you play your cards right, you just might meet in the middle and Obama will win another election without having to prove what the Constitution says he must prove.

ConservativeTony on January 27, 2010 at 4:36 PM

BIRTHERISM DOESN’T HAVE ANY ELECTORAL EFFECT ON THE GOP.

picklesgap on January 27, 2010 at 4:16 PM

As I said before, do you remember Van Jones? No Democrat would ever come out as a Truther and expect to win an election. This issue doesn’t poll any better than that.

Esthier on January 27, 2010 at 4:37 PM

Er … that is EXACTYLY WHY the natural born clause was put in. Do you have any idea what you’re talking about?

neurosculptor on January 27, 2010 at 4:25 PM

It was put in to exclude naturalized citizens. Nothing more.

MarkTheGreat on January 27, 2010 at 4:40 PM

canopfor on January 27, 2010 at 4:26 PM
So how many people did I just tell to “Bite me”?

AubieJon on January 27, 2010 at 4:29 PM

AubieJon: Its troubling when a person comments,than answeres
themselves,it soooooooooooooooo wierd!!:)
===========================================================
The Race Card on January 27, 2010 at 4:16 PM
Wait!!! You’re black? WTF?

Where does that leave me?

The Race Card on January 27, 2010 at 4:17 PM

canopfor on January 27, 2010 at 4:40 PM

So how many people did I just tell to “Bite me”?

AubieJon on January 27, 2010 at 4:29 PM

You were, apparently.

AubieJon on January 27, 2010 at 4:34 PM

You addressed me from out of the blue. Thank you for your interest. Good day kind genius.

The Race Card on January 27, 2010 at 4:40 PM

blaque jacques on January 27, 2010 at 4:36 PM

The birth certificate will unlock all of these answers.

BetseyRoss on January 27, 2010 at 4:40 PM

YOUR information is wrong. They produced short form, while claiming a long form exists, and a state employee claims to have seen it.

RightWinged on January 27, 2010 at 4:08 PM

And we always know that state employees are always honorable. Just ask Joe the Plumber.

mizflame98 on January 27, 2010 at 4:34 PM

I think you’re arguing with the wrong guy… I’m not saying anything about the state employee’s honor, one way or the other… I’m saying that if such a document exists (as they claim), it should be released.

RightWinged on January 27, 2010 at 4:41 PM

canopfor on January 27, 2010 at 4:26 PM
Would you like to buy a vowel? Perhaps we can interest you in some handy punctuation marks.
========================================

DaydreamBeliever on January 27, 2010 at 4:22 PM
Awww, Sweetie. You’ve been thinking about me.

The Race Card on January 27, 2010 at 4:30 PM

The Race Card: Yes,2 letters,B and an R!!!!!

Barack Obama————-Buyers Remorse!!

canopfor on January 27, 2010 at 4:42 PM

canopfor on January 27, 2010 at 4:40 PM

You should copy and paste more often. You’re much more readable that way.

The Race Card on January 27, 2010 at 4:42 PM

I look at the birth certificate from a different angle – from the “transparency” angle.

The truth is … Americans are having severe buyer’s remorse right now – and they believe they were duped in electing the doofus by the MSM and the Democrats – who passed him off as the genuine article. Yeah – they ignored Hannity when he ranted and raved about how “radical” Obama was – they believed instead, the MSM portrayals of Obama. But now they know who was right. They ignored the “right wing fringe” assertions about ZerObama’s associations with Rev. Wright and Bill Ayers – but now they know those associations were deep clues to who Obama really is.

They ignored the fact that someone is hiding away Obama’s thesis – but now they’re wondering … “WTF? Wonder what was in that thing?”

They ignored the “lost Cambridge years” – but now they’re wondering … “Wonder WTF he did those years?”

They may have even thought the birther issue was silly – but now they’re wondering … “Hmmm … why won’t he just show it?”

The issue DOESN’T hurt us.

What hurts us is our own civil war between the RINOs who tell the birthers to stfu – and the rest of us who think … “Why doesn’t he just show the damn thing?”

HondaV65 on January 27, 2010 at 4:42 PM

I don’t care about Obie’s birth certificate. I want someone to explain how Obie, with a father who was not a citizen — ever, is natural-born. What constitutes ‘natural-born citizen’ is the real Constitutional issue which the Court has never addressed. By my understanding, Obie may be a citizen, but he can never be natural-born.

RickZ on January 27, 2010 at 4:28 PM

He was born in a territory that later became a state. That makes him a natural born citizen.
His mother was citizen at the time of his birth. That makes him a natural born citizen.

MarkTheGreat on January 27, 2010 at 4:43 PM

canopfor on January 27, 2010 at 4:40 PM

Weird, indeed.

You addressed me from out of the blue. Thank you for your interest. Good day kind genius.

The Race Card on January 27, 2010 at 4:40 PM

Lame…

MeatHeadinCA on January 27, 2010 at 4:43 PM

As to the crowd I hang out, you make assumptions with no facts. But then, we already knew you like to do that.

MarkTheGreat on January 27, 2010 at 4:35 PM
Uh … you supplied the fact. You said that no one you knew would be appalled by the idea of a dual citizen holding the Presidency. I drew a logical conclusion from that.

neurosculptor on January 27, 2010 at 4:43 PM

natural born citizen of the US. A natural born citizen is one with both parents having citizenship.

BetseyRoss on January 27, 2010 at 4:28 PM

Obama is a natural born citizen.

MarkTheGreat on January 27, 2010 at 4:44 PM

MarkTheGreat on January 27, 2010 at 4:43 PM

No it doesn’t.

BetseyRoss on January 27, 2010 at 4:44 PM

As I said before, do you remember Van Jones? No Democrat would ever come out as a Truther and expect to win an election. This issue doesn’t poll any better than that.

Esthier on January 27, 2010 at 4:37 PM

Well you’re an idiot if you’re claiming an equivalence between believing Bush set up the 9-11 attack and a bunch of people that are just asking Obama to show his birth certificate the same way our kids have to show it to register at school.

HondaV65 on January 27, 2010 at 4:44 PM

If deciding the whole “birth certificate thing” is stupid and should be done with, and agreeing with AP that the Certificate of Live Birth was really good enough makes me a RINO, I’ll wear the badge with pride.

You birthers make all conservatives look stupid. Congratulations. You’re no different from Democrats who continue to insist in shrieking tones that Bush stole the election in 2000. There’s plenty of other reasons to go after Obama and his minions, and yet you choose to subscribe to a laughable conspiracy theory instead.

Red Cloud on January 27, 2010 at 4:44 PM

The Race Card on January 27, 2010 at 4:40 PM

Ellie Light?

portlandon on January 27, 2010 at 4:44 PM

The Naturalization Act of 1790, also passed by this congress, declared “And the children of citizens of the US shall be considered as natural born, provided that the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been a resident of the US.” Neither of these definitions, one from US law, mentions birthplace, only the parents’ citizenship.

–Unfortunately for you, the Nationalization Act of 1790 isn’t the law now or when Obama was born.

–And, also unfortunately, J. D. Hayworth comes across like a big, fat f***ing moron with some regularity. He was booted out of office in the early 2000s in a fairly libertarian/conservative district in AZ because he continued to stick his foot in his mouth and generally be tone deaf. (It does look like he lost a few pounds in the last ten years, though. I’m just waiting for him to implode with a few stupid statements.)

Jimbo3 on January 27, 2010 at 4:45 PM

You addressed me from out of the blue. Thank you for your interest. Good day kind genius.

The Race Card on January 27, 2010 at 4:40 PM

“Out of the blue”????

SMUUUUURFIST!

Abby Adams on January 27, 2010 at 4:46 PM

This will be settled soon enough. Obama can’t keep throwing his “friends” under the bus. Somebody will talk.

ConservativeTony on January 27, 2010 at 4:46 PM

The Founders rejected the idea of American dual citizens, which is why it wasn’t in the Constitution,

neurosculptor on January 27, 2010 at 4:03 PM

Care to document this claim?
Natural born merely differentiates from naturalized.

MarkTheGreat on January 27, 2010 at 4:26 PM

Read the oath of citizenship. Where did you get the idea that the Founders wanted citizens with allegiances to several different nations?

The idea of citizenship is that the citizen owes its allegiance to that nation. If you have dual citizenship and both nations require you to show up on your 18th birthday for mandatory military service, you will become a traitor of one nation on that birthday. The Founders didn’t want that.

Buddahpundit on January 27, 2010 at 4:46 PM

And we always know that state employees are always honorable. Just ask Joe the Plumber.

mizflame98 on January 27, 2010 at 4:34 PM

State employees:
Always honorable
Never politically motivated
Never have drug problems
Never have gambling problems
Underlings are never worried about political family connected bosses.
Never worried about being the one to throw cold water on Hawaii’s dream of “Obama will bring the tourists to our shores and we won’t have to cut school to 4 days a week” (yes, they did)
And they always fess up if their computer systems have been hacked.

journeyintothewhirlwind on January 27, 2010 at 4:47 PM

I drew a logical conclusion from that.

neurosculptor on January 27, 2010 at 4:43 PM

Your ability to draw logical conclusions is greatly in doubt.

MarkTheGreat on January 27, 2010 at 4:47 PM

There’s plenty of other reasons to go after Obama and his minions, and yet you choose to subscribe to a laughable conspiracy theory instead.

Red Cloud on January 27, 2010 at 4:44 PM

Laughable – we go after him on ALL issues. You can give him a pass on the BC – but it doesn’t mean we have to. What do you care anyway? The issue isn’t hurting you or Republicans or Conservatives. Show me one election we’ve lost due to it? Show me one poll that says “Oh we won’t join that party because they have birthers”.

You can’t.

HondaV65 on January 27, 2010 at 4:47 PM

The Race Card on January 27, 2010 at 4:40 PM
Ellie Light?

portlandon on January 27, 2010 at 4:44 PM

Could be. He’s too lame and ego-ridden to be getalife.

AubieJon on January 27, 2010 at 4:48 PM

Er … that is EXACTYLY WHY the natural born clause was put in. Do you have any idea what you’re talking about?

neurosculptor on January 27, 2010 at 4:25 PM

Do you have any idea what you’re talking about?:
http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_citi.html

Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in those gaps. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are “citizens of the United States at birth:”

* Anyone born inside the United States *
* Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person’s status as a citizen of the tribe
* Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
* Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
* Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
* Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
* Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
* A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.

mizflame98 on January 27, 2010 at 4:48 PM

All these comments and no Gregor? Good job.

Cindy Munford on January 27, 2010 at 4:48 PM

Well you’re an idiot if you’re claiming an equivalence between believing Bush set up the 9-11 attack and a bunch of people that are just asking Obama to show his birth certificate the same way our kids have to show it to register at school.

HondaV65 on January 27, 2010 at 4:44 PM

He showed one. The governor of Hawaii verified that he has a longer one. And Justice Roberts swore the man in.

I won’t go into name-calling, but it’s not at all idiotic to think that nonpartisans don’t find them equivalent. It certainly isn’t smart to think it polls well when it’s clearly been used well against Republicans.

Esthier on January 27, 2010 at 4:49 PM

He was born in a territory that later became a state. That makes him a natural born citizen.
His mother was citizen at the time of his birth. That makes him a natural born citizen.

MarkTheGreat on January 27, 2010 at 4:43 PM

Hawaii was already a state in 1962. But that’s beside the point.

Obie is in effect, an anchor baby, not having both parents be citizens, even though he was supposedly born in the US. A child born on US soil (or one of its territories or military bases) of two citizen parents (naturalized or otherwise) is what consitutes being natural-born. The old dead white guys who created the Consitution wanted no dual loyalties in the highest office. That’s why being a natural-born citizen is only required for the Presidency and the Vice-Presidency. It’s there for a reason, and most certainly not the one you appear to think. As I said, the Supreme Court has never looked at the issue, and should have after Chester A. Arthur was president (Mom was a US citizen, but Dad was not at the time of his birth). But the Court punted as Arthur died before any case could be heard.

RickZ on January 27, 2010 at 4:51 PM

Ellie Light?

portlandon on January 27, 2010 at 4:44 PM

You keep repeating that to me. So why not make your best case? What does she have to do with me?

I mean I guess you could lob the same slow-pitch insult at every other frequent commenter, including yourself.

The Race Card on January 27, 2010 at 4:51 PM

I liked this answer from the headlines.

It may be a valid question, but it has nothing to do with the AZ Senate race. It’s possible a good candidate could pick off McCain. However, he’s an incumbent, he has Palin on his side, and now Hayworth paints himself as an “extremist” in some voters’ eyes with this issue.

I think we’re going to have the Maverick in DC for another term, folks.

cs89 on January 27, 2010 at 12:38 PM

Cindy Munford on January 27, 2010 at 4:51 PM

Well, I think MM attracts this fringe group, so I’ll shut up.

AnninCA on January 27, 2010 at 4:52 PM

What do you care anyway? The issue isn’t hurting you or Republicans or Conservatives.

It makes us look like FOOLS for focusing on something so ridiculous. It fuels the argument that we are extremists who won’t listen to reason and who obsess over foolish things that everyday Americans simply do not care about.

Evidence has already been produced. Time to move on already.

Show me one election we’ve lost due to it? Show me one poll that says “Oh we won’t join that party because they have birthers”.

You can’t.

Excellent strawman argument. You set it up and then knocked it right down. BOOM. Good job.

Red Cloud on January 27, 2010 at 4:52 PM

What the argument boils down to is the fact that Obama’s sperm donor dad was NOT a U.S. Citizen. Hew was from Kenya, and a British subject, at the time.

This is not a hard concept to fathom, and it is not in dispute, not even by Obama. The fact this guy was ever allowed to compete to start with shows you how stupid people are.

Had the GOP been on the ball…they would have started in this deal before Obama even THOUGHT about running for POTUS, and basically made that run impossible.

There is way too much written opinion on what does, and what doesn’t qualify and “natural born.”

Obama is not “natural born.”

However, with that said, this is a losing issue for a politician. The left, and our idiot enablers on the right, have sufficiently made this issue radioactive.

This was not a smart move by J.D., not smart at all.

And yeah, I consider myself a “birther” I absolutely believe Obama is not legit. But I also know that nothing is gonna happen about it.

gary4205 on January 27, 2010 at 4:32 PM

I conceed Gary that I was wrong on the Article II Section 1 because I forgot about the 14th Amendment. But if you look above at what I posted in reference to Title 8 of the U.S. Code, you’ll see that it doesn’t matter if his father wasn’t an American or if Obama was born in Kenya.

mizflame98 on January 27, 2010 at 4:52 PM

Well, I think MM attracts this fringe group, so I’ll shut up.

AnninCA on January 27, 2010 at 4:52 PM

How do you think she attracts any fringe groups?

MeatHeadinCA on January 27, 2010 at 4:53 PM

Look … the issue isn’t whether or not the dude was born in the U.S. – it’s the fact that he refuses to produce a benign document that ALL OF US are required to produce any time we get a new job, or join the armed forces, or get married, or enroll our kids in school, or put them in little league ball.

Where’s the “conspiracy theory” in my belief that a President should have to produce the same document all of US are required to produce on so many occasions. I’m not alledging Obama isn’t a native of the U.S. – hell, he probably IS – but I am saying – what the hell is with this ELITIST BS where I am forced to produce a BC to get my paycheck – but not Obama?

If that makes me a whacko – then so be it. This is the position of MOST ALL of the birthers – the ones you guys call lunatics. Fact is – you wouldn’t know a true “birther” if one fell on you. You’re still wrapped up in the MSM spin – and that’s how shallow minded you are.

HondaV65 on January 27, 2010 at 4:53 PM

Well, I think MM attracts this fringe group, so I’ll shut up.

AnninCA on January 27, 2010 at 4:52 PM

That’s not a fair accusation.

Esthier on January 27, 2010 at 4:54 PM

Since nearly everything about Bsmbi has been faked, hidden, exaggerated or excused it should be no wonder why his facade is crumbling. Bambi got himself elected by preying upon the gullible to presume he was legitimately capable of being an effective, qualified executive. What a Harvard graduate Zero has been. What a speaker when the teleprompter fails. Prize wining vegetables from the White House garden. A puppy which is the media’s envy of all other puppies. A perpetual pass from history and reality which even the reigning champion of lowered standards Billy Clintoon must envy.

Nearly everything about Obama is a fraud. That is what causes people to wonder about the original long-form BC. I suspect something is on that original long-form which Zero’s gargantuan ego dislikes. Probably he’s listed as white or mixed or some other racial selection / combination he and his dear Revrum Wright detest or find politically inexpedient. If he’s listed as white one can imagine the entitlements he would have missed; his whole victim / owed-something game would be compromised. Or Zero’s Daddy-O is listed as a big question mark or “unknown” or “to be determined”
….or not the daddy expected.

Give it time. Should the Dimocrats lose out big-time in November they’ll be looking for any excuse to boot Zero back to the Chicago mob before he takes the entire DNC ship down with him. The Dims and their media whores created the crock which is Obama so they certainly know the keys to unlocking and revealing Zero’s conveniently sealed background should they see their own political prospects failing because of him.

viking01 on January 27, 2010 at 4:54 PM

AnninCA on January 27, 2010 at 4:52 PM

It’s not nice to insult your host.

Cindy Munford on January 27, 2010 at 4:55 PM

I have an idea — how about we let The Race Card and AnninCA start a conversation?

DaydreamBeliever on January 27, 2010 at 4:55 PM

The aplogists are standing behind the birthers Constitutionalists for protection.

Just like little kids throwing rocks through windows, they all want to see the glass shatter, but as soon as somebody sees them, they point out the person who threw the rock.

ConservativeTony on January 27, 2010 at 4:55 PM

Excellent strawman argument. You set it up and then knocked it right down. BOOM. Good job.

Red Cloud on January 27, 2010 at 4:52 PM

The strawman is yours – you can’t produce any evidence this issue hurts us.

I challenge you to do so.

Here – I’ll help you.

I’ll alledge right now that the birther issue HELPED us win in Mass, Virginia, and New Jersey.

Now you prove me wrong – and give me some evidence where the birther issue hurt us.

G’head.

HondaV65 on January 27, 2010 at 4:55 PM

mizflame98 on January 27, 2010 at 4:48 PM

I’m sorry, but ‘natural born citizen’ is not defined there. It is not the same as ‘citizens of the United States at birth’. That is what we are debating.

The class of dual citizens is a new class that was not part of the class of ‘natural born citizens’. It was created. It had to be defined in, either by SCOTUS ruling or by Constitutional amendment. They can easily rule that dual citizens can be natural born citizens, if they want. No big deal. But they don’t want to, because they know how many problems that opens up to American sovereignty. So we get rulings of ‘no standing’.

neurosculptor on January 27, 2010 at 4:56 PM

Ellie Light?

portlandon on January 27, 2010 at 4:44 PM

You keep repeating that to me. So why not make your best case? What does she have to do with me?

The first clue was it was a man, who was pretending to be his wife, second his explanations never made sense, and third he was a liar.

I rest my case. What say you Jury?

Is The Race Card Ellie Light?

portlandon on January 27, 2010 at 4:56 PM

Lame…

MeatHeadinCA on January 27, 2010 at 4:43 PM

Weak-sauce indeed.

Could be. He’s too lame and ego-ridden to be getalife.

AubieJon on January 27, 2010 at 4:48 PM

but not this bad

The Race Card on January 27, 2010 at 4:56 PM

Another Birther thread?

iVey…

catmman on January 27, 2010 at 4:57 PM

portlandon on January 27, 2010 at 4:56 PM

That’s your best? My condolences to your wife.

The Race Card on January 27, 2010 at 4:57 PM

mizflame98 on January 27, 2010 at 4:48 PM

You are conflating “natural born citizen” with “citizen” or “citizen at birth”.

What is the maximum number of nations for which a person could conceivably claim natural born citizen status, in your mind?

Buddahpundit on January 27, 2010 at 4:57 PM

I have an idea — how about we let The Race Card and AnninCA start a conversation?

DaydreamBeliever on January 27, 2010 at 4:55 PM

Leave my lady Ann out of this!!! /s

MeatHeadinCA on January 27, 2010 at 4:59 PM

Look … the issue isn’t whether or not the dude was born in the U.S. – it’s the fact that he refuses to produce a benign document that ALL OF US are required to produce any time we get a new job, or join the armed forces, or get married, or enroll our kids in school, or put them in little league ball.

HondaV65 on January 27, 2010 at 4:53 PM

He produced exactly what he was required to produce. There’s a reason the Supreme Court won’t hear a case against him on this issue.

The Certificate of Live Birth states that he was born in Hawaii and is valid when applying for a passport or anything else you need. On top of that, the governor himself vouched for Obama and his long form certificate.

What more do you want?

Esthier on January 27, 2010 at 4:59 PM

I won’t go into name-calling, but it’s not at all idiotic to think that nonpartisans don’t find them equivalent. It certainly isn’t smart to think it polls well when it’s clearly been used well against Republicans.

Esthier on January 27, 2010 at 4:49 PM

I see many here arguing as you are, that this hurts the GOP. But this issue really went away for the most part until the dems just recently brought it back as the centerpiece of their 2010 Congressional campaign strategy. I think they’re making a mistake, just as they did naming Limbaugh “the face of the GOP,” just as they did attacking Fox News (now the most trusted news source in America), and just as they did with their strategy to belittle “teabaggers” (a vile phrase the president himself used!). They are about 0 and 10 in the strategery department, and I think this is another misstep. It is the democrats who are now giving legitimacy to this issue. They plan to ask every GOP candidate about it every chance they get. I hope those candidates are smart and turn it around on them: “Gee, Mr. democrat, your party seems awfully obsessed with Mr. Obama’s birth certificate. You sound concerned that there might be some deception there. Maybe if you had him produce it, you — and we — could move on to other things.”

Rational Thought on January 27, 2010 at 4:59 PM

The strawman is yours – you can’t produce any evidence this issue hurts us.

I never said this issue hurts us. Not even once. Go back and look. I said it makes us look like FOOLS. That, I have a problem with. I really don’t fancy looking like a complete douchebag, and yet that’s exactly what birthers do for conservatives. That’s all they do.

But please, continue with the strawman arguments, they have been working so well.

Red Cloud on January 27, 2010 at 5:00 PM

Well, I think MM attracts this fringe group, so I’ll shut up.

AnninCA on January 27, 2010 at 4:52 PM

If by fringe you mean trolls, mobys and other airhead supporters of Obamao, you win the prize! The rest of us are here trying avoid those types.

Sporty1946 on January 27, 2010 at 5:00 PM

mizflame98 on January 27, 2010 at 4:48 PM

I’m sorry, but ‘natural born citizen’ is not defined there. It is not the same as ‘citizens of the United States at birth’. That is what we are debating.

The class of dual citizens is a new class that was not part of the class of ‘natural born citizens’. It was created. It had to be defined in, either by SCOTUS ruling or by Constitutional amendment. They can easily rule that dual citizens can be natural born citizens, if they want. No big deal. But they don’t want to, because they know how many problems that opens up to American sovereignty. So we get rulings of ‘no standing’.

neurosculptor on January 27, 2010 at 4:56 PM

I’m sorry. I forgot to include the sentence that came after the list:

Anyone falling into these categories is considered natural-born, and is eligible to run for President or Vice President. These provisions allow the children of military families to be considered natural-born, for example.

But you could have found that out yourself if you bothered to click on the link I provided.

mizflame98 on January 27, 2010 at 5:00 PM

Look … the issue isn’t whether or not the dude was born in the U.S. – it’s the fact that he refuses to produce a benign document that ALL OF US are required to produce any time we get a new job, or join the armed forces, or get married, or enroll our kids in school, or put them in little league ball.

Where’s the “conspiracy theory” in my belief that a President should have to produce the same document all of US are required to produce on so many occasions. I’m not alledging Obama isn’t a native of the U.S. – hell, he probably IS – but I am saying – what the hell is with this ELITIST BS where I am forced to produce a BC to get my paycheck – but not Obama?

If that makes me a whacko – then so be it. This is the position of MOST ALL of the birthers – the ones you guys call lunatics. Fact is – you wouldn’t know a true “birther” if one fell on you. You’re still wrapped up in the MSM spin – and that’s how shallow minded you are.

HondaV65 on January 27, 2010 at 4:53 PM

–He produced what he has as a birth certificate in 2008. Many of us are dependent on a state to give us a copy of our birth certificate because our parents missplaced them.

Jimbo3 on January 27, 2010 at 5:01 PM

I’ll alledge right now that the birther issue HELPED us win in Mass, Virginia, and New Jersey.

Now you prove me wrong – and give me some evidence where the birther issue hurt us.

G’head.

HondaV65 on January 27, 2010 at 4:55 PM

Why isn’t the onus on you to prove you’re right?

Fact is, a third of the GOP is pro-birther, but less than 10% of the public (including the GOP) is pro-birther. That alone makes your claim a bit harder to believe.

Esthier on January 27, 2010 at 5:02 PM

This is such a dumb issue. Hayworth should have known that Chrissy would ask it and he should have had a better response ready. For example, “Yes, I believe he is a natural born citizen since he was born in Hawaii. Is this really pertinent Chrissy? By the way, how’s your leg?”

WarEagle01 on January 27, 2010 at 5:02 PM

I have an idea — how about we let The Race Card and AnninCA start a conversation?

DaydreamBeliever on January 27, 2010 at 4:55 PM

How about you get over your obsession with me? I thought you already spent that load. Wasn’t two years long enough for your fantasies to marinate?

The Race Card on January 27, 2010 at 5:02 PM

MHO, it makes anyone who questions it look like a paranoid tin-foil hat wearing conspiracy freak. I understand all the arguments and think that he should have to produce one, but I guess I just care so much MORE about the other issues and have left this one in the dust.

Just my 2 cents.

search4truth on January 27, 2010 at 4:09 PM

I agree 100%
I will not knowingly cast my vote for a birther.

annoyinglittletwerp on January 27, 2010 at 5:03 PM

Is The Race Card Ellie Light?

portlandon on January 27, 2010 at 4:56 PM

What makes anyone think he supports Obama?

Esthier on January 27, 2010 at 5:03 PM

This is such a dumb issue. Hayworth should have known that Chrissy would ask it and he should have had a better response ready. For example, “Yes, I believe he is a natural born citizen since he was born in Hawaii. Is this really pertinent Chrissy? By the way, how’s your leg?”

WarEagle01 on January 27, 2010 at 5:02 PM

Bingo.

Red Cloud on January 27, 2010 at 5:03 PM

I have an idea — how about we let The Race Card and AnninCA start a conversation?

DaydreamBeliever on January 27, 2010 at 4:55 PM
How about you get over your obsession with me? I thought you already spent that load. Wasn’t two years long enough for your fantasies to marinate?

The Race Card on January 27, 2010 at 5:02 PM

–Hey, why don’t you two go get a room?

Jimbo3 on January 27, 2010 at 5:03 PM

What more do you want?

Esthier on January 27, 2010 at 4:59 PM

I’d like to see the mothaeffin certificate. Is that wrong?I can’t “photocopy” my birth certificate and present it to my employer – I have to have a CERTIFIED actual copy of the thing with the state seal. Why doesn’t the President have to produce this?

I believe the dude is a U.S. citizen – yet I get called a “birther” and a “conspiracy theorist” just because I’d like to see some equity here between what the President has to produce – and what I have to produce for my employment. Yet – YOU DEFEND the elitist standard.

And not only that – you equate guys like me with “truthers” – people who think Bush attacked America. Somehow my asking for a bit of equity here makes me as bad as those guys.

Thanks.

HondaV65 on January 27, 2010 at 5:04 PM

canopfor on January 27, 2010 at 4:40 PM
You should copy and paste more often. You’re much more readable that way.

The Race Card on January 27, 2010 at 4:42 PM

The Race Card:Thank-you for your kind suggestions,copy and
pasting has always been a goal in life that I
always wanted to master!

canopfor on January 27, 2010 at 5:04 PM

mizflame98 on January 27, 2010 at 4:48 PM

And, I would add that those rulings of ‘no standing’ sap vital trust and confidence out of the system, especially for something that is so easy to have all desired documentation produced … or that should be producible, let’s say. Even leftist turds, like Jonathan Turley, said that they were uncomfortable with the appearance of important issues that no one seems to have standing on, other than a precious few. And this was for something that should be public, like the certificates that doctors have to hang on their office walls to show their eligibility to be a doctor or a lawyer’s diploma and bar certificate.

neurosculptor on January 27, 2010 at 5:04 PM

Actually, I thought he gave a reasonable answer. Everyone, no matter who they are, must prove their age, citizenship and identity. The President is no exception, and there are also specific requirements that must be met, according to the US Constitution.

It is not up to the Governor of Hawaii to vouch for Obama. A President who has made transparency an issue should produce the vault copy of his birth certificate without coercion. He has not and likely will not, but there is no good reason to be embarrassed to point this out or ask. The American people should never be told to shut up.

chunderroad on January 27, 2010 at 5:05 PM

You are conflating “natural born citizen” with “citizen” or “citizen at birth”.

What is the maximum number of nations for which a person could conceivably claim natural born citizen status, in your mind?

Buddahpundit on January 27, 2010 at 4:57 PM

Based on Title 8 of the US code, Obama is considered a natural born citizen and qualifies to be POTUS. Look, I don’t like the dude either. I think he is destroying our nation and trying to turn us into little Venezuela. But if we want to thwart his evil plans, we can pick a better argument than whether he is a natural born citizen or not.

mizflame98 on January 27, 2010 at 5:05 PM

Esthier on January 27, 2010 at 4:59 PM

The Hawaii Certificate Of Live Birth cannot even be used to prove the gender a person was born with:

HAWAII

Hawaii will change both name and sex, and will issue a new birth certificate rather than amend the old one.
Documents needed:
An original or certified copy of the letter from your SRS surgeon
A court order is not required.
Alvin T. Onaka, Ph.D.
State Registrar and Acting Chief
Office of Health Status Monitoring
alvino@hawaii.edu

Buddahpundit on January 27, 2010 at 5:05 PM

Link to his certificate of live birth:

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn227/Polarik/BO_Birth_Certificate.jpg.

Jimbo3 on January 27, 2010 at 5:06 PM

All these comments and no Gregor? Good job.

Cindy Munford on January 27, 2010 at 4:48 PM

I see him as a pirate!
No – a poet!
No – a prince!
A gypsy mopping sweat upon his brow?
Might it be this gypsy of yours stands before you now?

It could be him!
It could be you!
Odd’s fish, it could be me!
That scallawag could be most any sod

PercyB on January 27, 2010 at 5:06 PM

Yes, of course. We all know Brown, McDonnell, and Christie were screaming from the mountaintops about birth certificates and won over their constituents (in 2 very Blues states). No mention of spending, taxes, government’s ever-expanding role in our lives, weakness on terror, shady dealings in congress, health care.

Birth certificates were critical. They hardly shut up about it. Case closed.

stldave on January 27, 2010 at 5:06 PM

Wait, where did Princess Ann go? I thought she was going to explain how she was attracted to MM’s site…

MeatHeadinCA on January 27, 2010 at 5:07 PM

I see many here arguing as you are, that this hurts the GOP. But this issue really went away for the most part until the dems just recently brought it back as the centerpiece of their 2010 Congressional campaign strategy.

Well, it went away, because Republicans quit talking about it. I think this was a good thing, as, without any evidence that Obama is actually hiding anything, it makes us look like we need to attack Obama instead of his policies.

A similar tactic Kerry used against Bush wasn’t helpful either.

I think they’re making a mistake, just as they did naming Limbaugh “the face of the GOP,” just as they did attacking Fox News (now the most trusted news source in America), and just as they did with their strategy to belittle “teabaggers” (a vile phrase the president himself used!). They are about 0 and 10 in the strategery department, and I think this is another misstep. It is the democrats who are now giving legitimacy to this issue. They plan to ask every GOP candidate about it every chance they get. I hope those candidates are smart and turn it around on them: “Gee, Mr. democrat, your party seems awfully obsessed with Mr. Obama’s birth certificate. You sound concerned that there might be some deception there. Maybe if you had him produce it, you — and we — could move on to other things.”

Rational Thought on January 27, 2010 at 4:59 PM

I hope you’re right, but I believe most of the public sees Truthers and Birthers as the same. I’m perfectly fine with being proven wrong though.

Esthier on January 27, 2010 at 5:07 PM

canopfor on January 27, 2010 at 5:04 PM

Ctrl + c, Ctrl + v

What makes anyone think he supports Obama?

Esthier on January 27, 2010 at 5:03 PM

Because he doesn’t support Palin. Duh!

The Race Card on January 27, 2010 at 5:07 PM

You birthers need to cease and desist, and bow to your Kenyan master.

TheSitRep on January 27, 2010 at 5:07 PM

But you could have found that out yourself if you bothered to click on the link I provided.

mizflame98 on January 27, 2010 at 5:00 PM

Uh … that’s not part of the code. That’s the editorial opinion of the web site. You know the difference, right?

neurosculptor on January 27, 2010 at 5:08 PM

Lame…

MeatHeadinCA on January 27, 2010 at 4:43 PM

MeatHeadinCA: It seems today is not a happy day for Libs,
with SOTUA!

They seems awfully bitter!!:)

canopfor on January 27, 2010 at 5:08 PM

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