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European history and OT Jewish history (both of which are equally evil) actually prove that John 3:18 is clearly true. There is no other conclusion. “They have all turned aside; together they have become corrupt; there is none who does good, not even one.”
tommyboy on January 5, 2010 at 9:12 AM
“He that believeth not is condemned already.” Probably the most intolerant doctrine ever preached, the most idiotic and vicious, and the one fraught with the greatest potential evil. European history records its consequences.
Shy Guy on January 5, 2010 at 8:55 AM
==================================================
Good point. I think Brit Hume is terrific, but he was on O’Reilly saying that he was not proslytizing and he was not dissing Bhuddism when I would bet that if Brit Hume was commenting objectively on this he would say he was in fact doing both; And that is OK, but don’t deny it and lie about it. As a Jew I am in faith as a Jew, one of the issues with some proponents of Christianity is that they are so insecure in their faith that they must be dismissive of other faiths and as history reminds us, sometimes feel they must use force to get others to have the same “faith”
Thank goodness that most Christian doctrine is now against forced conversion (the Islamists have taken that one over for sure. Christians like Brit think that their personal faith is truth, when of course, unless they are themselves G_d it cannot be deemed truth because only G_d can make that pronouncement. They say “look, it is written here” and yet they seemingly forget that they are humans and their interpretations are inherently faulty. As a Jew that supports Israel I am very happy for the evangelicals like John Hagee because they are supportive of Israel and Jews even if they have a different faith in the path to G_d.
georgealbert on January 5, 2010 at 9:13 AM
FIFY
Shy Guy on January 5, 2010 at 9:06 AM
I didn’t ask you to. I wish I was where you are. To walk where He walked. You will proceed to deride my faith and make fun of itm. That doesn’t matter. wepeople on January 5, 2010 at 8:38 AM in his quote from Paul’s First Letter to the Corinthians said it succintly.
kingsjester on January 5, 2010 at 9:15 AM
The Declaration doesn’t engage theology and Nature’s God is pointedly not characterized as Christ or the Trinity. The only Christian reference in the Declaration was in Jefferson’s draft where he refers to King George as the Christian king who runs the slave trade.
dedalus on January 5, 2010 at 9:17 AM
My admiration for Brit has just taken a quantum leap. It takes real courage to say that Christianity is an answer to evil.
May God continue to bless you, Mr. Humes.
Hening on January 5, 2010 at 9:21 AM
Judaism does provide a mechanism for forgiveness – blood sacrifice. “Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness.” Leviticus 4 details the sacrifices required to atone for the sins one commits unknowingly. That’s how serious G-d is about sin.
There is also Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement. It is the high point of the High Holy Days. An entire book of the Talmud is devoted to it: Yom’a (The Book of The Day).
Yom Kippur even gives us the term scapegoat. The Bible describes the Temple ritual on The Day, when the High Priest would ceremonially place the sins of the people on a goat. A scarlet thread would be cut in two. One half would be tied around the goat’s neck; the other half hung up in the Temple. The goat would then be driven out into the wilderness, where it would eventually die. At that moment, the scarlet thread in the Temple would turn white, signifiying that G-d had accepted the offering of the scapegoat.
There’s an interesting note in Yom’a 39 relating to this. It seems that forty years before the destructino of the Temple, the thread stopped changing color, and this had the rabbis greatly concerned.
You DO know what happened 40 years before the destruction of the Temple, right?
skydaddy on January 5, 2010 at 9:34 AM
Yes, the fullfillment of what happened 40 years before Joshua crossed the Jordan.
tommyboy on January 5, 2010 at 9:44 AM
You DO know what happened 40 years before the destruction of the Temple, right?
skydaddy on January 5, 2010 at 9:34 AM
======================================
2500 hundred years ago…well, I also know one thing that a mere 70 years ago the most Christian countries in Europe, Germany and Poland decided that burning babies was a good thing to do. I guess when you do that you just burn away the blood.
georgealbert on January 5, 2010 at 9:47 AM
Hening on January 5, 2010 at 9:21 AM
I agree. Brit was right on, too, when he said that even mentioning the name of Jesus, which he didn’t do the first time, gets heads exploding.
If people don’t accept Christ, that’s their choice. But it never ceases to amaze me how uncomfortable he makes some people who don’t believe in him.
NebCon on January 5, 2010 at 9:48 AM
b.s., try reading the Declaration of Rights the founders were citing(in re-establishing their rights) and the works of Sir William Blackstone and Montisque which is where the Founders got their language from to begin with.
King George was not a “Christian King”, he was a tyrant not following the Bible and acknowledging Christ Reigns.
All the State Constitutions in the USA, acknoledge God, many of which define it down to Christ, the Triune God.
Hume would’ve been more accurate to say that only through Christ, not “Christianity” so much, Tiger could find true Redemption.
jp on January 5, 2010 at 9:49 AM
George, the Shoah was not the work of Christians, it was the work of Satan. Many Christians risked their lives to save Jews. To suggest otherwise is to be guilty of the same sort of blood libel that was perpetrated against Jews during the Middle Ages. And you better than most should know that the Temple was destroyed in 70 CE, not 500 BCE.
skydaddy on January 5, 2010 at 9:54 AM
tommyboy – nicely put.
skydaddy on January 5, 2010 at 9:55 AM
George III was head of a Christian church, and like other European monarchs looked to a church to sanctify their powers. Jefferson was likely pointing to the King’s hypocrisy of invoking Christ yet trading slaves.
The founders didn’t base their rights on a specific church or theology, and in the Declaration elected to identify “these truths” as “self evident” rather than “sacred”.
dedalus on January 5, 2010 at 10:07 AM
If Brit Hume had said Tiger needs to have a little herbal tea and get into his yoga position, all the liberal, devil worshiping Democrats would all be praising the guy. They fear Christianity, because it entails a certain adherence to a morality that goes against their twisted desires and mindless philosophy of “if it feels good, do it.”
joedoe on January 5, 2010 at 10:22 AM
Well, I think this is fine for the Christian Broadcasting Network.
I personally don’t want religious opinions on my news channel, however.
AnninCA on January 5, 2010 at 10:30 AM
George, the Shoah was not the work of Christians, it was the work of Satan. Many Christians risked their lives to save Jews. To suggest otherwise is to be guilty of the same sort of blood libel that was perpetrated against Jews during the Middle Ages.
skydaddy on January 5, 2010 at 9:54 AM
=================================================
Sorry, over 80% went to church every Sunday. You can deny that but the fact is even when WWII was supposedly over Jews went back to Christian towns in Poland where the Poles attempted to finish the job for the Nazi’s. Please, read a history book
georgealbert on January 5, 2010 at 10:38 AM
+1000 but …
If it was the Episcopal brand of Christianity Britt espoused, the MSM would not be so offended; it is only with orthodox Christianity that the intolerance issue is highlighted. The ‘enlightened’ denominations get a pass.
Fuquay Steve on January 5, 2010 at 10:40 AM
Aren’t liberals telling us to not smoke, not eat fatty food, drive hybrids, etc.? They are filled with many bad ideas that involve having the government forbidding people from doing something that feels good.
dedalus on January 5, 2010 at 10:41 AM
WWII was about the consequences of de-christianization of Europe. It started with the the concentration camps (there were priests murdered (martyred) there as well) and proceded to the gulags (guess who were prisoners there?). WWIII will be about the de-christianization of the Americas. Your view of history is warped and greatly deficient. How long have you lived with that power line in your backyard?
Fuquay Steve on January 5, 2010 at 10:46 AM
“Aren’t liberals telling us to not smoke, not eat fatty food, drive hybrids, etc.? They are filled with many bad ideas that involve having the government forbidding people from doing something that feels good.
dedalus on January 5, 2010 at 10:41 AM”
tommyboy on January 5, 2010 at 10:48 AM
For now, you are not forced to listen. That could change however. Is it your news network or our news?
Fuquay Steve on January 5, 2010 at 10:48 AM
I think those that walk on the dark side over at MSNBC are messing with a dangerous precedent. If they continue to ridicule Christians and demand tolerance of all other “religions” it will bite them in the butt. People of faith will start to feel as if they are being indoctrinated into a coven, or something. I can already picture Olbermann wearing a black cape, a mask, fishnet stockings and a lace garter belt. And, that’s just during his coffee breaks. God knows what he wears during the MSNBC Black Mass. :-0
joedoe on January 5, 2010 at 10:49 AM
Then you are in luck because every single news channel but one accomdates your views.
tommyboy on January 5, 2010 at 10:50 AM
George, I don’t deny that anti-Semitism was – and is becoming again – a major issue in Europe. But anti-Semitism has nothing to do with the teachings or Person of Y’shua Ha’Mashioch.
Jesus was a Jew, remember? He told His followers that not the smallest part of Torah would pass away. Rabbi Sha’ul (aka Paul) was a Pharisee, and like Hillel, a student of Gamaliel.
Christians who choose to be ignorant of their Jewish roots are missing out on deep and beautiful aspects of The Way.
Y’shua did not come to abolish Torah, but to fulfill it. The whole point of Torah is that it is humanly impossible to please G-d. Just look at Leviticus 4 – sacrifices are required for sins you didn’t even know you committed! That’s what makes the Cross both necessary and sufficient for redemption – only G-d Himself can fulfill Torah.
skydaddy on January 5, 2010 at 10:51 AM
Don’t like it? Don’t watch.
Extrafishy on January 5, 2010 at 10:56 AM
The Sanhedrin (Israel’s High Court) moved from the Lishkah Hagazit in the Temple to other locations, because murder amongst Jews was so rampant that they no longer wished to judge capital cases.
Similarly, at the exact same time, checking for a married woman’s infidelity was ceased, because sexual promiscuity was rampant.
Third, the formation of deviant sects within the Jewish community broke the nations unity with G-d and His Torah.
Jesus, if he existed, was part of the problem – not the solution.
Shy Guy on January 5, 2010 at 10:58 AM
Funny, you don’t sound “shy.”
davidk on January 5, 2010 at 10:58 AM
From theother Humer thread:
davidk on January 5, 2010 at 11:01 AM
I was paying attention to what you had to say until this.
“[I]f [H]e existed”? If you don’t think Jesus existed, then anything else you say is suspect.
davidk on January 5, 2010 at 11:04 AM
Yep. That’s why I don’t watch CNN, MSNBC, Etc.
Besides, the comments Hume made was at the “Roundtable.”
Not news, commentary.
davidk on January 5, 2010 at 11:06 AM
And He did. If that don’t make you want to shout and dance … .
davidk on January 5, 2010 at 11:07 AM
I’m off my pills. :)
I linked to this book much earlier on. So you weren’t paying enough attention:
Jesus: Neither God Nor Man – The Case for a Mythical Jesus
I found parts (not all) of it highly convincing. Sorry.
In either case, it really makes no difference to me.
Shy Guy on January 5, 2010 at 11:11 AM
Shy Guy, I’d be very interested to see the source of your information. I suspect you (or your source) is a little confused.
Under Roman occupation, the Sanhedrin had no authority in capital cases – they could not condemn anyone to death. And while the Romans might not have cared much about the provincial rabble offing each other, they were real tough on civil disorder.
And if the Sanhedrin gave up hearing cases and enforcing Torah, that’s hardly the fault of an itinerant hick preacher from the hill country (if that’s all you take Y’shua to have been).
The reason that the red thread stopped changing color is the same reason the Temple veil was torn in two – the sacrifice of Y’shua (40 years before the destruction oft he Temple) provided complete atonement, once and for all. The goat was no longer required.
skydaddy on January 5, 2010 at 11:12 AM
The utopian regressives mock Christianity not b/c they fear it, but b/c they CAN. Christianity itself allows for such mockery:
“But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well.” Matthew 5:39-40
They take advantage of the core belief of evangelical Christianity that allows for meekness & teaches the old “kill ‘em w/kindness” doctrine.
These basic tenets of Jesus Christ’s teachings emboldens the utopian libs. They think they can attack Christianity without fear of any repercussions.
They would not mock islam in this fashion, now way, ever.
They secretly FEAR the islamics & will NEVER critique them or laugh openly at them, b/c they know the islamics will hunt them down & kill them. This is just one more example of the cowardly ways of the utopians. They pick on and ridicule the one religion that openly allows their behavior. Ironic.
Ris4victory on January 5, 2010 at 11:14 AM
Say what?
“1 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not too hard for thee, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say: ‘Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, and make us to hear it, that we may do it?’ 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say: ‘Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, and make us to hear it, that we may do it?’ 14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. {S} 15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil, 16 in that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His ordinances; then thou shalt live and multiply, and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest in to possess it. 17 But if thy heart turn away, and thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; 18 I declare unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish; ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over the Jordan to go in to possess it. 19 I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that I have set before thee life and death, the blessing and the curse; therefore choose life, that thou mayest live, thou and thy seed; 20 to love the LORD thy God, to hearken to His voice, and to cleave unto Him; for that is thy life, and the length of thy days; that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD swore unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.”
– Deuteronomy 30
There are many many more verses throughout the Torah, Prophets and Scriptures, which state that it is Israel’s obligation to fulfill the Torah.
So, was G-d and His prophets lying, according to you?
The Eternal Torah
Shy Guy on January 5, 2010 at 11:19 AM
+100
PrincipledPilgrim on January 5, 2010 at 11:22 AM
You’re only quoting from Tractate Yoma 39:b. I’m also quoting from Sanhedrin 41:a, bottom of the page – plus various Talmudic commentaries that bring in other Talmudic sources of these events at the time.
So you wish.
Shy Guy on January 5, 2010 at 11:23 AM
The notion that the Gospels arose out of contemporary mythology (Mithras is a favorite choice) betrays ignorance of how folklore works.
Tales that are retold in group settings do not “grow” like fish stories, nor do they morph like a game of Telephone. Rather, they are preserved remarkably intact. An excellent example is the close similarity between Appalachian ballads collected in the early 20th century and those collected a hundred years earlier by Child.
skydaddy on January 5, 2010 at 11:25 AM
AnninCA on January 5, 2010 at 11:25 AM
Not offended but a little annoyed and frustrated. You really can’t blame the founders much since there was no one at the time providing any more solid basis for individual rights other than the “Nature’s God” idea.
Here’s the thing, of what value is your claim now when in fact there is a reality-based, demonstrable justification for the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness?
In the end, the “word of god” is simply that. There’s no rationale, no justification, no explanations just commandments. How is that more valid in support of our founding principles than actual, irrefutable real facts in support of those principles? Once you discover the reasoned basis for individual rights, and at once appreciate how good that discovery is, don’t you then begin to understand how reality and our means of grasping it (reason) is enough to discover an honorable morality for us to follow in leading a good life? And doesn’t that then become the basis for America’s founding principles?
beselfish on January 5, 2010 at 11:27 AM
When you read the book, you may learn otherwise.
Shy Guy on January 5, 2010 at 11:27 AM
Look at the rest of the Tanakh, Shy Guy. Israel continually violated Torah, starting with the golden calf at the foot of Sinai. G-d’s people were always chasing after other gods and ignoring His statutes. That’s why G-d allowed the Assyrians, the Medes, the Babylonians, the Romans, etc. to drive them out of the land promised to Abraham, over and over again. You yourself said that murder and promiscuity were so rampant during the Roman occupation that the Sanhedrin threw up its hands!
skydaddy on January 5, 2010 at 11:32 AM
Another one lost in the age of “It’s all about Me” culture. It’s kinda lonely there isn’t it?
Fuquay Steve on January 5, 2010 at 11:33 AM
Ann, I’m surprised then you watch any “News” outlet.
http://rightwingnews.com/2010/01/the-6th-annual-40-most-obnoxious-quotes-of-2009/
davidk on January 5, 2010 at 11:34 AM
So then G-d was a liar? G-d was a failure, not Israel?????
So then G-d “used” the nation of Israel as some sort of a punching bag for 1500 years?
Once again, deal with this: The Eternal Torah
Must be going soon.
Shy Guy on January 5, 2010 at 11:37 AM
I don’t think so. I’ve studied folklore for decades, since before I became a Christian. In fact, my knowledge of folklore played a large part in my conversion. The more I looked into the origins of the story of the Resurrection, the more I became convinced that it was based on the real, historical resurrection of Jesus. All the other explanations (including mythic agglomeration) required greater leaps of faith than believing that a dead man came back to life.
skydaddy on January 5, 2010 at 11:37 AM
I left out the “Obama” Jesus:
davidk on January 5, 2010 at 11:38 AM
Don’t see where you’re getting that, Shy. God does not lie, nor does He fail. Yes, Torah is eternal. Remember, Jesus said that not the smallest part of a letter of Torah would pass away while Heaven and Earth exist.
But it is humanly impossible to keep Torah. That’s why the Cross was necessary (and sufficient).
skydaddy on January 5, 2010 at 11:40 AM
Jesus IS Israel’s fullfillment of the Torah. He is the offspring (singular) promised to Abraham in whom all the families of the earth would be blessed.
tommyboy on January 5, 2010 at 11:47 AM
I agree. If I told people that I took 100 arrows and the first one hit dead center and then every one that I shot thereafter split the precious arrow, they would be rightly suspicious.
We are just not capable of perfection.
davidk on January 5, 2010 at 11:50 AM
This is how Christians get their message out on news channels.
Muslims ought to take note of how “peaceful” religious outreach really works.
Shiny_Tiara on January 5, 2010 at 11:54 AM
I must be on my way, but I just found this regarding Tractate Yoma 39:b:
Why Didn’t The Red Ribbon on the Head of the Scapegoat Turn White in 30 C.E.?
Goodnight from Jerusalem.
Shy Guy on January 5, 2010 at 11:56 AM
Just for the record, I was born and raised in Jerusalem, most of us, Yerushalmin, don’t share SG’s views. Then again his comments are just as intolerant and condescending as the one Britt Hume made. To both of them I can say, at least Buddhists don’t feel the need to join this childish (sometimes deadly) game of whose religion is better.
Michelle Dubois on January 5, 2010 at 11:59 AM
previous
davidk on January 5, 2010 at 12:14 PM
It’s not an issue of “better”, it is which one is true.
And it is not a game. It is extremely serious. One’s eternal life depends on the Truth.
davidk on January 5, 2010 at 12:16 PM
Amen brother.
Fuquay Steve on January 5, 2010 at 12:31 PM
I refuse to believe that God is a narcissist :) A real God would care about how you behave as a human being not about how you choose to worship him.
Michelle Dubois on January 5, 2010 at 12:33 PM
georgealbert knows what he’s talking about you don’t. Just go ask the guy who made Passion of the Christ about Jews, you know that drunk, Mel Gibson?
Norman Blizter on January 5, 2010 at 12:40 PM
Won’t you be embarrassed when you meet your creator, Allah!
Norman Blizter on January 5, 2010 at 12:42 PM
So THAT’s what a real God thinks…thanks for the insight.
Worship is a vehicle chosen to reach a destination…all Christians are looking for the same destination, and all know the “rules of the road” just some take Fords, and some BMW’s…don’t run red lights, don’t speed, don’t veer off the road…don’t drive while under the influence, keep your eyes on the road…
right2bright on January 5, 2010 at 12:43 PM
Religiosity is perfectly fine to me, provided it’s an individual’s private matter. I personally find it offensive to hear a newsperson advising others on which religion to choose.
THAT is clearly out-of-bounds. It’s his career. His choice.
And his consequences, too.
AnninCA on January 5, 2010 at 12:57 PM
“Claiming to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man.”
Romans 1:22-23
tommyboy on January 5, 2010 at 12:57 PM
“Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man…” Romans 1:22-23
tommyboy on January 5, 2010 at 1:00 PM
I personally don’t want ED, condom, or KY commericals on at all times for my kids to watch. Oh well.
nico on January 5, 2010 at 1:01 PM
Agree. But the advertising business doesn’t pretend to have objectivity.
Newspeople do.
Now, those on the Christian Broadcasting Network do not, and that’s frankly where he should work.
Then, there’s no conflict of interests.
AnninCA on January 5, 2010 at 1:04 PM
yeah thats actually what it means…from your web site:
this is laughable. when John says that Jesus IS God.
john 1:
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning
14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[d] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
yeah the truth will set you free…Jesus is the truth…
John 14:6
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
right4life on January 5, 2010 at 1:27 PM
Am I correct in reading that to mean that you’re suggesting that the Buddhists’ religion is better?
BlueCollarAstronaut on January 5, 2010 at 1:41 PM
Not to single you out, Michelle, but this seems sort of silly. You’re forcing a false dilemma by suggesting that our worship is not part of our “behav[ior] as a human being.”
Doesn’t it stand to reason that if we are supposed to worship a God who is preeminent over creation, that there are certain guidelines for that worship? If God is concerned with our behavior in other areas, why would He be indifferent in our manner of worshiping him?
BlueCollarAstronaut on January 5, 2010 at 1:55 PM
Wow, there was a lot of vitriol in that article! And not much of a coherent explanation that I saw. Granted I stopped reading after the 5th or 6th paragraph of non sequiturs and ad hominem attacks.
BlueCollarAstronaut on January 5, 2010 at 2:03 PM
Agree. But the advertising business doesn’t pretend to have objectivity.
Newspeople do.
Now, those on the Christian Broadcasting Network do not, and that’s frankly where he should work.
Then, there’s no conflict of interests.
AnninCA on January 5, 2010 at 1:04 PM
Change the channel. You can look at a TV schedule to determine what news shows to avoid. Try doing that with a commercial. And since when are news shows devoid of opinion?
nico on January 5, 2010 at 3:01 PM
And another thing, Ann. If Hume would have said he prefers French Toast to pancakes, you wouldn’t be banishing him to the Food Network. It’s not the fact that he has an opinion on a news show. It’s the content of that opinion which you don’t like.
nico on January 5, 2010 at 3:07 PM
Yep, it’s those imaginary gods that are always so into themselves.
nico on January 5, 2010 at 3:11 PM
How generous of you. Are there any other freedoms I might dare to dream about?
nico on January 5, 2010 at 3:15 PM
God no, not at all, I judge people not religions (with the exception of one for obvious reasons). Evil doesn’t discriminate based on religion, it exists everywhere, luckily, the good is still the majority in most groups. Call me simple, but I just don’t think that the numerous strangers that had saved me and my boyfriend when we traveled in Thailand have no place in heaven because they like the effeminate guy in briefs over the hippie on the cross. As for me, I like all the deities, Jesus, Moses, Buddha, Krishna, Hunter Thompson… (with the exception of one for obvious reasons).
Michelle Dubois on January 5, 2010 at 3:59 PM
A real wife would care about how you behave as a human being, not how you choose to love(worship)her.
Tell her that tonight.
JellyToast on January 5, 2010 at 4:15 PM
I don’t know, maybe it’s my Jewish heritage that claims that God forgives for the sins you committed against him but he can’t forgive you for the sins you have committed against other people, unless they forgive you. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the Golden Rule exists in all religions, it’s the cornerstone of spirituality, all the rest is just a generational “add-ons” and a matter of taste. I’m sure that thousands of years from now, we’ll have the extra-new-testament with new holydays and new worshiping rules, (I’m fine with it as long as they don’t go back to the OT eating habbits). Even today there’s no consensus among different branches of Christianity, but there’s a religious unity when it comes to “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” Since everyone has his/her own version of what is the truth, I choose to believe that whatever is up there watching us, will judge me based on the Golden Rule. And if there’s nothing up there, then I’m fine with it too. For now, I prefer to live my life thinking there is some kind of magic in this universe.
Michelle Dubois on January 5, 2010 at 4:35 PM
NebCon said:
That’s because He is the real deal.
Everything else is just religion.
Yephora on January 5, 2010 at 4:38 PM
“Ma shmita lechavita?” that’s hebrew for “what’s that got to do with anything?”
Michelle Dubois on January 5, 2010 at 4:41 PM
He was asked if he felt he was proseletyzing and said “No.” That proves a complete lack of self-awareness, in my opinion. It reminds me a great deal of Gibson who misquoted Palin’s comment on God in his interview. He, too, completely missed the meaning of her statement. Yet, he, too, lacked self-awareness and didn’t allow for the reality that his own perspective was in error.
Ditto for Hume.
I don’t really care. It’s just one more talking head I turn off.
AnninCA on January 5, 2010 at 5:02 PM
Michelle,
I was being rhetorical with my question, because your original statement (which follows) is contradictory (emphasis mine):
With those first 4 words (esp.), you are declaring Buddhists to have a superior worldview, whether you realized it or not; you’re making a qualitative evaluation and finding one item to be better (and others lacking)…ironically, because, you assert that it doesn’t make qualitative evaluations.
With your follow-up, you make similar mistake of trying to be inclusive, while at the same time being explicitly and arbitrarily exclusive as it suits you with regard to a) religions and b) inconvenient teachings of the deities (and non-deities) you claim to embrace (in part because of your embracing of the others).
That seems to be the primary folly of the “all-inclusive” doctrine: Mutually exclusive ideas cannot be simultaneously feasible…no matter how nice it might seem if they were. In theory, it’s a nice thought to assume everyone’s right, but at some point an impasse is reached, where one side believes the other is wrong. That’s irreconcilable with the notion that both are right.
To be blunt, I think it’s troubling that you think you’re free to pick and choose your own god combo meal from the buffet of world religions, while at the same time denouncing the orthodox Christian God as a “narcissist.” Is it not narcissistic of you to assume to authority to embrace the bits and pieces you like, while rejecting the elements you don’t? That makes you the ultimate arbiter of truth. Reality doesn’t really work that way very often.
BlueCollarAstronaut on January 5, 2010 at 5:11 PM
So every time you post an opinion you are proselytizing?
Every time a “talking head” gives an opinion, it is just one more talking head you turn off…after about three days you wont’ have anyone to watch.
Let’s see if you hold true to your beliefs…or is it like Brit says, over sensitivity to the name Jesus Christ…you get more “proselytizing” from Sears then you do from Brit.
right2bright on January 5, 2010 at 5:39 PM
OK, so it’s no longer an objectivity threshold that one needs to hit, but a self-awareness threshold. I see. Broadcast TV is in big trouble.
nico on January 5, 2010 at 5:42 PM
It’s what is commonly referred to as “back atcha”…a great intellectual response.
Let me explain…when you look at your wife tonight, tell her that you don’t need to show her that you love her anymore (because she already knows that), tell her that you will just be a good person to everyone else.
Then report back to us in a week as you go about your life…then in a month tell us how much alimony you will have to pay…
Jellytoast, that was awesome….
right2bright on January 5, 2010 at 5:44 PM
One of Andrew Sullivan’s readers started off his letter posted on 05 Jan 2010 01:55 pm as such:
Don’t jump to conclusions there, I am sure Andrew Sullivan visits “teabagger country” far more than you give him credit for.
We just have to call him on it.
Mr. Joe on January 5, 2010 at 6:00 PM
Indeed. I did read it all the way to the end, and Rabbi Singer’s argument can be summed up as, “Israel was in a state of moral decline which peaked in 30 CE. That’s why the miracles stopped.”
Of course, we know from the Gospels that Israel was in moral decline – Jesus threw it in the Pharisee’s faces almost daily, calling them whitewashed tombs, sons of Satan, a brood of vipers, etc. And certainly the destruction of the Temple and the Diaspora showed that G-d had removed His hand of protection from the nation.
Most Jews of course have a vested interest in denying Christ, and they’ve been taught for centuries that Christians are their enemies (sadly, not without historical reason).
But there is a new generation of Judeophilic Christians like myself who honor and celebrate Jesus’ Jewishness. We are staunch friends of Israel. There are also Jews who acknowledge and celebrate that fact – Dennis Prager comes to mind.
Have a good evening.
skydaddy on January 5, 2010 at 6:02 PM
It’s getting late in this part of the world but just to make myself clear, I don’t think the Christian God (and I was talking about the Jewish one too) is a narcissist, I think people make their God look like a narcissist with the way they interpret his will.
I’m sorry that you find my blendetheism troubling. Good Night from the “Land of Milk and Honey…” one thing for sure, the Jewish God has sense of humor.
Michelle Dubois on January 5, 2010 at 6:11 PM
I’ve just looked at my wife, as she was shaving her face, and told her that 1. her husband is too stupid to understand a great intellectual response. 2. Her husband is ovulating.
Lila Tov!
Michelle Dubois on January 5, 2010 at 6:20 PM
And you have a problem with that? Don’t you think that self-awareness, that is knowledge of the image one projects to his audience, would be a prerequisite for the job of a TV news anchor or analyst or what have you?
MJBrutus on January 5, 2010 at 6:35 PM
OMG(osh) that was so freaking funny! My stomach hurts!
JellyToast on January 5, 2010 at 6:44 PM
That God would voluntarily lay down His life for you, if you just accept it as fact, and believe in Him you will have eternal life is the greatest example of LOVE ever in history.
dthorny on January 5, 2010 at 6:45 PM
And thank you.
Now that I’ve stopped laughing,
Bottom line, God sets the rules. He wants our worship (adoration, love, whatever you want to call it).
Yes, your child might be the most perfect person. Kind to strangers, honest, sensitive, caring, smart, but how would you feel if he barely acknowledged your existence? Never sent you a card on your birthday? Never a phone call, never a word?
Ok, you didn’t understand the wife thing, maybe you’ll disagree with the son or daughter thing, how about this one.
What if it were your father? Your father was a great humanitarian. Known the world over as a kind and brilliant man! But to you, nothing. Yes, he feeds you, clothes you, pays the mortgage, speaks to you when he needs to, answers your questions, but nothing else. Would you consider that a healthy relationship? Never a hug? Never saying he loved you?
When you get down to worship, that’s really all it is. Us showing our love for God. The world turns worship into rituals, and then, as a result, worship gets a bad rap. Like, God expects us to put on heavy clothes, bang our heads with boards and chant while walking in circles. That’s not worship.
Want to see some real worship? Go to a football game. Go to a rock concert. Hey, you know what? A kiss is worship too! So is telling your wife “I love you sweetie, You melt my butter!”
Yeah, we all know how to worship. We all worship the things we really love. God expects no less.
JellyToast on January 5, 2010 at 7:14 PM
Correct.
If we fully understood what Jesus did for us, we would non-stop be singing/chanting:
“Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty
Who was, and is, and is to come.”
davidk on January 5, 2010 at 7:24 PM
Way back in the day, we were told not to discuss 3 things in public –
1. Sex
2. Politics
3. Religion
It’s about time we got around to #3. I applaud the very genuine and brave Brit Hume.
redwhiteblue on January 5, 2010 at 9:51 PM
Thank you Brit Hume. You are the man.
Sweetness0726 on January 5, 2010 at 10:31 PM
Your Kidding?
Well if Jesus was mythical then how did the 12 apostles(his followers) observe how they die:
1. Andrew – crucified
2. Bartholomew – beaten then crucified
3. James, son of Alphaeus – stoned to death
4. James, son of Zebedee – beheaded
5. John – exiled for his faith; died of old age
6. Judas (not Iscariot) – stoned to death
7. Matthew – speared to death
8. Peter – crucifed upside down
9. Philip – crucified
10. Simon – crucified
11. Thomas – speared to death
12. Matthias – stoned to death
Doesn’t look like they died for a lie didn’t they?
b1jetmech on January 5, 2010 at 11:22 PM
1. Mr. Hume was right on in terms of what happens when you mention Christ Jesus:
“In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.” 2 Timothy 3:12-13
2. He was alright right in his assessment of Buddhism. Buddhism speaks nothing of the concept of sin nor the redemption of it. It’s basic premise is that one should care nothing about anything except to make the effort to care about nothing. In the end, it turns men into apathetic cowards. Christianity is the only system of beliefs that can fully and logically provide answers to the four big questions in a manner consistent with reality: 1) From where did we come? 2) What is our purpose? 3) By what moral standard should we conduct ourselves? 4) What is our end-state?
Send_Me on January 6, 2010 at 12:26 AM
OK, but what makes you think that your way of worshiping the all mighty is the only way?
To get purity, Christians go to confession, Jews fast and Hindus immerse in the Ganges water, and let me tell you, the last ones are the bravest, have you seen the Ganges water? Do you really think God care how you “search” for his attention or show him respect?
There’s an old Jewish tale about a guy who didn’t know how to read or how to pray, but he knew how to recite all the Hebrew letters, so he looked up to the sky and recited the letters and God, in return, gave him his blessings.
I travel a lot, I’ve seen holy in the Buddhist monks who gave us shelter and food when we got lost traveling on a motorcycle. I’ve seen holy in the Hindu pilgrim we met in northern India who dedicated their life to helping the poor. I see holy in my Christian sister-in-law who grows her hair just so she could cut it off and donate it to Children who have cancer. I see holy in my Jewish parents who are the most loving and generous people I know. I see holy in the men and women in uniform who risk their life so the rest of us could sleep peacefully at night. I see holy in these doctors who go to third world countries and cure others for free. I see holy in every birth, and the God I choose to believe in, will not judge that new born baby because he was born to Buddhists and not Christians or Jews, he will judge that baby based on the way he had lived his life and that God wouldn’t give a damn if he/she prayed to him at the Vatican, or in front of the Wailing Wall or on Badrinath.
The story of Noah and the flood is identical to the story of Gilgamesh (Sumerian), the latter was written thousands of years earlier, how do you explain that? If you read the bible, the Bahagvat Gita and The Teaching of Buddha, you’ll find many similarities. We all believe in the same thing, we gave him different names, different rituals, different faces, but we all celebrate the mysterious existence of the same deity. This is my philosophy and I feel very peaceful living it.
I’ve walked through the Old City 12 years after leaving Jerusalem and it doesn’t matter if you go through the Christian, Jewish, Muslim or Armenian quarter, it always feels equally holy. I’m glad I live in a world that has such colorful traditions, now, if only Human Beings learn to accept each other just the way they are… OK, I should stop hear before I sound like the retarded liberal I was in my twenties… Yuck!
Michelle Dubois on January 6, 2010 at 7:50 AM
This wasn’t directed at me, but since it’s a public forum, I’ll give my answer. Yes; do you really not?
I appreciate you sharing your experiences and the steps that have led you to your beliefs, but I must say, your religion seems to be based a lot on subjective feelings and anecdotes. Your religion seems to be ficklely tied to the things that make you feel good and the things you decree holy.
To be perfectly honest, as a Christian there are things about God that I am uncomfortable with. I’m a Calvinist, and there are things about that doctrine that make me uncomfortable at times. There are things I would change if I could, but I’m not God, and I’m not free to decide how things should be run. In the long run, being the screw-up that I am, this is definitely a good thing, but it’s not something I always like. It strikes me as rather arrogant that so many people craft religions that seek to grant them this freedom.
I would just as soon my daughter not have Cerebral Palsy, and my son not have a disease that makes his bones weak and may leave him blind and tumor-ridden, but I don’t get to decide those things any more than I get to decide if it snows at my house tomorrow. Life doesn’t grant me the freedom to select only the favorable outcomes, so it seems odd for me to think that the God of the universe would somehow fit the ever-changing molds I have for Him…that he would somehow be exactly as I want him to be at all times.
You’re free to to believe God does allow you that freedom (obviously), and I admire your quest for a global reconciliation of the various religions, but I think you should realize that in trying to do so, you end up breaking orthodox ties with most, if not all, of them. By embracing the broad community of “all believers”, you’re rejecting any sense of genuine community and striking a path all your own.
Here’s the crux: You say the following (emphasis mine):
That’s to be expected. You talk to a Christian, an atheist, and a Buddhist for long enough, and I imagine there will be a good deal of overlap in their worldviews (at least at the practical level), but where the similarities end, you’ll find some stark, irreconcilable foundational differences. Those can’t be undone with feel-good platitudes.
Ultimately, it stands to reason that there is an objective truth that doesn’t bend to the whims of any of us. As long as contradictory ideas are floating about, some of us must, necessarily, be wrong.
I think it’s important that we weigh ideologies in light of this fact and see which one best explains the universe in which we live. Send_Me mentioned that Christianity uniquely addresses four big philosophical questions. I agree, and that’s why — despite my sometimes squeamish distaste for difficult truths — I believe that a Christian foundation distinctly holds true.
In it, we find revelation (the starting point of knowledge) given to man by the relational Source of all things knowable; an objective moral standard decreed by that same eternal Source of all things good, an explanation for the value of man as well as his creative and rational attributes (created in the image of God); an explanation of brokenness, pain, and guilt due to the rebellious nature of man against his Creator; a promise of redemption prescribed through sacrificial retribution as defined on the wronged party’s terms; the grace of redemption accomplished through the sacrifice by the wronged party himself who — in taking the weight of our sin — also gains the experiential empathy of our pain and suffering; and a hope of final glorification offered by the Redeemer who not only takes the burden of our sin to the grave, but also conquers death itself by returning from it victoriously.
BlueCollarAstronaut on January 6, 2010 at 10:45 AM
That’s a great answer…I guess you don’t know that we can’t see the gender of the person posting…and of course it is a good way for you to defer the obvious intent of the post, that is to inform you. Switch genders in the post, now do you understand?
right2bright on January 6, 2010 at 6:58 PM
No, he doesn’t. He’s very ignorant about religion, G-d, and history. But he is a smart-a$$.
Andy in Agoura Hills on January 6, 2010 at 7:30 PM
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