NFL week 17 open thread
posted at 10:19 am on January 3, 2010 by Ed Morrissey
The Pittsburgh Steelers kept their playoff hopes barely alive with a 23-20 win over the Baltimore Ravens last week, but they have to win in Miami today against the Dolphins and hope for some help to make it into the first round. In order for the Steelers to keep playing this season, they have to hope that Houston and the Jets lose, or Houston and Baltimore loses, or that the Jets, Baltimore, and Denver lose. First, though, they have to stop the Dolphins and their high-powered running game. I’ll pick the Steelers to turn it around on the road, beating an inconsistent Miami team 27-20, but it won’t be easy for Pittsburgh.
Last week I went 3-3. Who knew Indy would pull their starters with an undefeated record on the line? Everyone has a loss now, and let’s see if I can’t pick them a little better this week and improve on my 58-32 record for the season:
- NY Giants at Minnesota – Minnesota has lost three of their last four games, but finally started putting together their offense in the second half of the loss to Chicago. The Giants are out of the playoffs and not playing terribly well. Minnesota can still get the second seed and a first-week bye with a win here and some help from the Cowboys. Vikings win, 31-17.
- Baltimore at Oakland – Oakland has started to revive itself from the dead on the Left Coast, but I doubt they can put it together against Baltimore, even at home. Today is one of the rare times when I’ll pull for the Raiders, but they’ll come up short against the Ravens in a low-scoring game, 17-13.
- New England at Houston – The Pats have started to gel again, and that’s bad news for the Texans. 27-17, New England.
- Cincinnati at NY Jets – The Bengals have had a tough couple of weeks with the death of one of their most popular teammates. They need a jump start going into the playoffs, and Marvin Lewis will have them ready for the Jets. Expect the Bengals to get back on the beam, 24-10.
- Kansas City at Denver – Denver’s playing for a wild-card spot, while Kansas City is playing to get to the end of the season. This is a big rivalry, though, so don’t expect KC to just lay down for Denver. Don’t expect them to win, either. Broncos over the Chiefs, 21-14.
Blowback
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New England will win here again and take yet another step toward Super Bowl! Go Patriots!
GO BRADY
IntheNet on January 3, 2010 at 10:22 AM
You obviously expect the Bengals to be playing their starters. By 8 pm, after the Patriots smack the Texans around to clinch the #3 spot, Cincy will have absolutely nothing to play for — the Bengals are in at #4.
Jets play a B squad at home, easy win, take the playoff spot from the Steelers.
LastRick on January 3, 2010 at 10:24 AM
Indy loses to Buffalo. Indy fans go wild with rage and pound head coach Jim Caldwell into the dirt for benching key players (who people pay to see play) and throwing away a perfectly good shot at an undefeated season.
darwin on January 3, 2010 at 10:29 AM
That’s some far out prediction there, Ed ;)
As a Gang Green fan, I might be a bit biased, but the Jets are at home, last game in that stadium, with the playoffs on the line. If they were to lose, it would be by a last minute TD or FG.
Actually, I’m predicting it will be a squeaker, the Jets pulling out a FG in overtime.
JetBoy on January 3, 2010 at 10:30 AM
So- if the Steelers win today, and about a zillion dominoes fall just right, they can get into the playoffs with the odds of going all the way stacked against them by a 1,000 to 1?
Hope!!!
Scott P on January 3, 2010 at 10:31 AM
Packers 4000
Cardinals 3
roscopico on January 3, 2010 at 10:32 AM
go cards!
cmsinaz on January 3, 2010 at 10:36 AM
Go ZONA!!!
Do I have this right? I have to hope that Dallas wins today and the Viks lose again so Arizona has a shot at the number 2 seed? OK then.
Go Dallas! Go Giants! Go Cards!
Ordinary1 on January 3, 2010 at 10:48 AM
Caldwell made sure this game meant nothing by throwing the game last week. When Indy doesn’t win the Superbowl, will Caldwell change his mind, maybe I should have taken a shot at 16-0? as he goes 0-for-2 in his big chances this season.
LastRick on January 3, 2010 at 10:50 AM
Go Eagles!
becki51758 on January 3, 2010 at 10:57 AM
And change!! ;-)
Actually, I’m more or less resigned to retiring the Steeler jerseys for the year after today. But stranger things have happened …
Ed Morrissey on January 3, 2010 at 10:58 AM
I’m sure the Bengals are just scared to play them again.
tomas on January 3, 2010 at 11:07 AM
The Packers are probably going to have two straight weeks in Arizona. A lot of Wisconsinites would love that ’round about now.
Mr. D on January 3, 2010 at 11:16 AM
Broncos 35-3 over the Chefs – Go Bengals!
Colonel_prop on January 3, 2010 at 11:17 AM
Cardinals will crush the Packers. Aaron Rogers will be forced by coaching staff to ego rehab in the off season.
darwin on January 3, 2010 at 11:20 AM
In order for the Steelers to keep playing this season, they have to hope that Houston and the Jets lose, or Houston and Baltimore loses, or that the Jets, Baltimore, and Denver lose.
In 2006 the Kansas City Chiefs needed to beat Jacksonville and have Tennessee, Cincinnati, and Denver all lose. The Broncos were the most unlikely to comply, since they were hosting the hapless 49ers. All the games fell into place, as the Bengals lost in OT after missing a 39 yard field goal at the end of regulation, and the 49ers shocked the Broncos, overcoming a 13 point deficit and winning on a 36 yard field goal in the final 2 minutes of overtime
I’m glad to see that you’ve crossed over to the Dark Side, Ed.
aunursa on January 3, 2010 at 11:26 AM
The Iggles got in last year on a fluke the Raiders needed to beat the Bucs in Tampa and they did. This year one of the tiebreakers is strength of opponent I believe.
Biggest game of the day and of the decade so far Eagles v Cowgals – get ready for and old fashioned NFC East battle – just lots of points from D and Special Teams
GO BIRDS!
igglesphan on January 3, 2010 at 11:39 AM
The Dolts and their pathetic owner Robert Hearsay should have been fined fr throwing a game last week. Very unsportsmanlike.
bill30097 on January 3, 2010 at 11:43 AM
FIFY Ed
rslancer14 on January 3, 2010 at 11:53 AM
Haven’t kept up with football this season.
Regardless …
Go Cowboys !!!
BowHuntingTexas on January 3, 2010 at 11:53 AM
The Colts better hope they don’t play The Burgh in the playoffs. The Colts are soft and proved it last week. Polamalu a week or two away.
THE CHOSEN ONE on January 3, 2010 at 11:54 AM
Thank GOD Ed picked against the Jets. We’re going to the playoffs, baby!
J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS!
Jazz Shaw on January 3, 2010 at 11:54 AM
Saw interview with Shula on Fox this morning. He said he would have also sat Manning last week.
Really? I think he was being diplomatic.
donh525 on January 3, 2010 at 11:54 AM
Saints will lose in Carolina-Drew Brees is sitting out the game along with some other starters.
He’s still giddy from the bubbly.
Del Dolemonte on January 3, 2010 at 12:06 PM
I don’t actually have much hope left for this football season, but I will spend today rooting for the Steelers in my brand new Rocky Bleier replica jersey.
myrenovations on January 3, 2010 at 12:08 PM
But Rogers has been trying so hard to get that perfect George Michael look going; you shouldn’t be so hard on the boy.
Oh yah: Go Steelers!
Bishop on January 3, 2010 at 12:29 PM
:D
JetBoy on January 3, 2010 at 12:30 PM
I think the Saints are making a smart move, they have already won the division, why risk your main players for a game that makes no difference to you.
Teleycoman on January 3, 2010 at 12:42 PM
Disagree. The Texans are in a must win situation, at home. It’s must-win moreso to achieve their first winning season — coming off two years of 8-8 kiss-your-sister seasons — than to actually win a wild-card berth, which will require extreme luck… 2 out of 3 losses among Steelers, Ravens and Denver.
At the same time, the Pats have already won the AFC East and likely will rest many of their starters. I wouldn’t expect to see even Brady for more than a quarter or so.
Houston by 7.
TXUS on January 3, 2010 at 12:48 PM
I’m with ya TXUS. Being a Colts fan, I’m gonna take the day off….just like teh Colts did last week.
Go Toxins!
ohiorebel on January 3, 2010 at 12:57 PM
Ooooh, nice! Color me jealous!
ladyingray on January 3, 2010 at 12:57 PM
All last decade the Cowboys never beat the Eagles in December or later. New decade, same results. E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!
LevStrauss on January 3, 2010 at 1:00 PM
Thanks O-Reb, my Texanos need all the help they can get. FYI, I’ll be pulling for the Colts, too, assuming my guys don’t make the playoffs, a good assumption.
Enjoy the day off.
TXUS on January 3, 2010 at 1:05 PM
As the regular season fades away today, there’s a bright future ahead for my young Forty-Niners team that should beat the 1-10 Rams in the finale. With a victory the Niners will finish 8-8, most likely tieing former “powerhouse” teams like the Steelers, Giants, Panthers, Titans, and Broncos should they get upset by KC.
For the Niner Faithful, who have been from the bottom (in the seventies) to a dynasty in the 80′s and early 90′s, .500 is a huge improvement. There’s no Montana, Rice, Taylor, and company on offense, or the tenacious defenses of the past. But next season will be one of looking forward to seeing the Niners back in the playoffs, where the Faithful are used to seeing their red and gold.
As we conservatives like to say, “change is coming in 2010″. Nothing would please this football fan more than to see the democrats fall from power while the Niners regain their leadership role in the NFL.
Good luck to all your favorite teams. And may the New Year ring in a future we can all look forward to.
Rovin on January 3, 2010 at 1:08 PM
Noooooo! Wes Welker just got injured.
I don’t know if the Pats can survive the playoffs without him.
racecar05 on January 3, 2010 at 1:22 PM
Oh what might have been. But for heartbreaking losses to Minnesota, Indianapolis, Green Bay, and Seattle, the 49ers would be hosting a playing game.
aunursa on January 3, 2010 at 1:29 PM
Gee…I get to watch the Redskins in San Diego to decide the critical position of…uh….well, I’m sure its an important game to somebody.
Much more important than, say, the game to decide who wins the NFC East Title.
Yeah. I think I’ll clean my bathroom instead.
BobMbx on January 3, 2010 at 1:53 PM
Ziggy Hood looks like he may be an answer for the Steelers glaring defensive end problem. Now for the other end…
Two out of three is bad if you play a 3-4.
forest on January 3, 2010 at 1:57 PM
Yer darn right… it’s been barely above zero here for the past 4 days. At least it’s making ice (we had the truck out on Lake Winnebago yesterday… but they don’t bite when it’s this cold!).
That’s crazy talk. Rodgers is a down to earth guy, and we’re d@mn luck to have him over that Brent Something-or-other.
Go Pack Go!
roscopico on January 3, 2010 at 1:57 PM
BAD news for the Patriots-Wes Welker is done.
Brady sat out much of the first half, as he apparently has 3 broken ribs, but just came out to start the second half. 13-13.
Del Dolemonte on January 3, 2010 at 2:42 PM
Don’t know if my Cardinals will try to win today or not the way the Vikings-Giants game is going. If it looks like they play the Packers again next weekend, then they will keep it really plain today and save everything for next week’s game. Still it would be nice to have 11 wins on the season.
By the way, congratulations to safety Adrian Wilson on joining the 20/20 club last week!
Go Cards!
MeAlice on January 3, 2010 at 2:46 PM
Really bad turnover by Houston, a 14 point swing.
I’m tired of teams laying down for the Stealers. It’s an old nightmare.
WannabeAnglican on January 3, 2010 at 2:56 PM
The snow is Buffalo is much more watchable than the Dolphins or Texans.
WannabeAnglican on January 3, 2010 at 3:15 PM
Got any facts to back up your silly statement?
bill30097 on January 3, 2010 at 3:33 PM
It’s paranoid nonsense. Houston is trying, and may very well win their game. The only team to mail one in recently is Indy against the NY Jets, which nearly eliminated the Steelers.
If Houston does lose today, the bungles would be wise to roll over for the Jets too. If you were them, who would you rather see in the playoffs, the Jets or the Steelers?
forest on January 3, 2010 at 3:41 PM
Houston just tied it up.
So much for the wild conspiracy theories about teams laying down for the Steelers.
forest on January 3, 2010 at 3:44 PM
*ahem* I did NOT say Houston was trying to lose. They were giving the game away, however. That was what I was trying to say.
I was wrong to give up on Houston, however. What a turnaround! Kudos and many thanks to the Texans!
WannabeAnglican on January 3, 2010 at 4:07 PM
O’ye of little faith!
The one thing that I really appreciate about my Texans is their heart. They are willing to fight to the very last moment. When they start giving up on themselves I’ll start giving up on them.
Texas Gal on January 3, 2010 at 4:11 PM
Houston wins. Ed and myrenovations will be will be wringing tears out of their jerseys, and I’ll put away my original tear-soaked Terrible Towel for the year.
Hope and change spring eternal, when you’re a Steelers fan!
Scott P on January 3, 2010 at 4:26 PM
Welker + ACL Tear = :_(
RedNewEnglander on January 3, 2010 at 4:51 PM
LOVED how Ravens #23 slapped that Raider out of the way for a big touchdown run.
“Get the **** out of my way!”
WannabeAnglican on January 3, 2010 at 5:20 PM
Oh my goodness. It looks like the Packers are AWESOME!
AAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
roscopico on January 3, 2010 at 5:31 PM
Cowboys up 17 zip at the half!!!!!
Ed I can’t believe you! The Dallas Philly game is so big that the NFL moves the start time from 12 to 3 so they can get it out to a larger audience, and it doesn’t even rate a mention from you. Hater.
I guess if they make the super bowl you will just have a thread talking about the AFC team?
conservnut on January 3, 2010 at 5:38 PM
If the Cowboys play they way they have in the first halves against the Saints and now Philly, they could win it all. If.
Seriously, other than an unwise interception, the Cowboys owned the first half today. 291 yards offence. 17-0. I was not expecting that.
WannabeAnglican on January 3, 2010 at 5:39 PM
By the way, good job Texans!!!!
conservnut on January 3, 2010 at 5:39 PM
I know the Cardinals have nothing to play for but neither do the Packers. That display by Arizona in the first half was pathetic.
lowandslow on January 3, 2010 at 5:40 PM
For the first time in several seasons they are actually looking like a playoff team in December! Let’s hope they keep it up in the second half.
conservnut on January 3, 2010 at 5:42 PM
My sympathy to Welker and to NE fans. Hate to see that injury.
WannabeAnglican on January 3, 2010 at 5:46 PM
Thanks, we needed the win to have the first winning season of the franchise, but hate what happened to the Pats’ Welker. Man, that was an ugly injury, and the replay made your eyes bleed.
Personally, I wouldn’t have played him or Brady or a number of their first team on a game that meant so little to them but everything to my Texans, who miraculously are still in the wild card hunt, at least for an hour or so.
Best wishes to Welkel and the Pats.
TXUS on January 3, 2010 at 6:15 PM
The Denver Glue is down by 10. Ravens only up by 1. I am getting nervous.
WannabeAnglican on January 3, 2010 at 6:24 PM
Why can’t we get a kicker who doesn’t suuuucccckkkk!
conservnut on January 3, 2010 at 6:38 PM
Congrats on your first winning season-as a Saints fan I know how good that feels-took them 20 years!
My sports editor friend at one of the Boston newspapers says Welker’s is a 1 year recovery injury.
Not sure why the Pats were playing so many starters-but things are real bunched up with 2 other teams in their same division still in the hunt.
Del Dolemonte on January 3, 2010 at 6:49 PM
Why the hey is Romo still in there and passing? Dumb!! Up 24-0 with 5 minutes left. Yank him out!
WannabeAnglican on January 3, 2010 at 6:58 PM
I agree, that is dumb. I think Dallas is finally getting that payback for the Buddy Ryan era.
conservnut on January 3, 2010 at 7:00 PM
Looks like Baltimore stepped up. As for Denver . . . .
Looks interesting for Houston. Hope they make it. If the Jets lose, they are in.
WannabeAnglican on January 3, 2010 at 7:08 PM
Woo-Hoo, Cowboys are NFC East Champs!
conservnut on January 3, 2010 at 7:12 PM
Update on the Patriots’ Wes Welker
Left ACL and MCL.
Del Dolemonte on January 3, 2010 at 7:26 PM
I think if Cinci wins tonight, they end up with Baltimore in the first round, but if they lose, they get the Jets?
I’d like to see Houston get a shot, but I don’t think the Bungles have it in their self interest to win tonight’s game.
forest on January 3, 2010 at 7:26 PM
Yeah, boy! And, they got a surge thing going on. Long time since we’ve seen that this late in a season. Next week, expect the birds to blitz like demons. This could’ve been a rope-a-dope today, knowing they’d play the boys anyway. Game to watch, for sure.
As to my main TX team, hoping Cincy whips ass tonight against the Jets but the latter has its destiny in its own hands, at home.
Go cats.
TXUS on January 3, 2010 at 8:10 PM
Thank you Cowboys and go Vikings!
Hopefully our bye won’t stall our offensive momentum but I’ll take the extra week break for everybody to get healthy.
Now Arizona please beat Green Bay thank you!
gophergirl on January 3, 2010 at 8:27 PM
New England will win here again and take yet another step toward Super Bowl! Go Patriots!
GO BRADY
IntheNet on January 3, 2010 at 10:22 AM
Theophile on January 3, 2010 at 8:51 PM
How Bout Them Cowboys!!!
2009 Beasts of the East!
dddave on January 3, 2010 at 9:06 PM
New decade, new results. C-O-W-B-O-Y-S COWBOYS!
firepilot on January 3, 2010 at 9:08 PM
Yeah but at least you had a shot at it through at least half of the season. My poor Bears were out of it after about week 6!
LL
Lady Logician on January 3, 2010 at 9:32 PM
That vikes QB Brent What’s-his-face won’t carry y’all very far: One-and-done.
Who runs that team, anyway? Childress? –Didn’t think so.
Best regards from the land of Cheese and Beer.
roscopico on January 3, 2010 at 9:34 PM
Ahahahahaha,
You’re right, they didn’t beat them, they made them their 8itch!!!!!!!
Next week, same thing!!!!
conservnut on January 3, 2010 at 9:35 PM
Oh, and about that momentum thing…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy4x6QGi9d8
Just sayin’.
roscopico on January 3, 2010 at 9:37 PM
I guess I got all worried this afternoon for nothing. Jets owning the Bengels 24-0. Wow.
WannabeAnglican on January 3, 2010 at 9:53 PM
HOWZum ’bout Dem COWBOYS!!!!
44Magnum on January 3, 2010 at 9:55 PM
Jetboy! Where you at man!
conservnut on January 3, 2010 at 10:15 PM
I demand an investigation from the competition comm., Bengals are resting starters too! Jets receive red carpet to playoffs
TheVer on January 3, 2010 at 10:18 PM
Finally, Pitt banished to off-season’s stench … on the final day of the reg season. Heh, better late than never. =)
Unfortunately, the Ravens–probably the NFL team currently most truly representative of evil–took the Steelahz place as wildcard. Truly a wretched development.
Oh well, it can only be hoped that double-murderer Lewis’ team gets spanked in its wildcard game.
clark smith on January 3, 2010 at 10:47 PM
As you Eagles and Boys chortle prematurely about who’s going to be the best in the NFC, let me remind you there’s an old hungry tiger in Minnesota lookin’ for “one more” for the history books. Farve wants to be in the company of the Unitas’s, Morrals, and beyond the hero worship of Starr. The Vikings are hungry to make history. But there was an 11-1 Colts team back in 69 that had just finished the season with the sporting world claiming them to be “one of the best alltime” (I’ll use wiki cause it’s handy, and mostly accurate):
I was sixteen, just a junior in high school. My girlfriend was the homecoming queen and for some juvenile reason I thought it was my duty to sit at her parents home and watch the first real superbowl. Before Namath even opened his big mouth, I had already given eight of my “best friends” ten to one odds that no AFL sissy team would stand a chance against “one of the best of alltime”. All in total, I had over $175 dollars out in bets and wuz already countin’ the extra spending money.
Long story short, I had to sit there, (without the capability to say $hit,f*@k, or sun of a bit*h) as Namath and the Jets used a banged up Dan Maynard as a decoy while other recievers and Emerson Boozer ripped up the field and held my all powerful Colts to seven frikken points.
Hence, the words of Broadway Joe would ring in my painful ears for the many months it took me to pay off all my debts. I don’t know if jetboy wuz around then, but,(respectfully),(sometimes) he reminds me of that arrogant ass on that January day in ’69……and the homecoming queen that waited for those flowers that would never come.
Now you’ve got the Colts sitting over there that could have most likely still been undefeated and are deservingly ringing in the ghost of their old teams past—and Farve’s got plans to write some football lore too. You may even think them Cowboys and Phillys still have something say, but them Jets just downright bring back those “haunting memories”……..
Rovin on January 3, 2010 at 10:52 PM
Packers Baby! And they get the late game on Sunday, too.
rotorjoe on January 3, 2010 at 10:57 PM
Let me remind you that Farve has always been the Cowboy’s 8itch! I don’t see that changing. With this defense, we will own his ass!
conservnut on January 3, 2010 at 10:57 PM
Let me remind you that Farve has always been our 8itch! After Ware sacks his ass two or three times he will throw about 4 interceptions. That’s the way it always works!
conservnut on January 3, 2010 at 11:01 PM
OOps, one of those must have been waiting for moderation.
conservnut on January 3, 2010 at 11:02 PM
Ed what was that about the Chiefs losing to the Broncos?
And with us its personal with the Denver and Oakland.
Silverwolf on January 3, 2010 at 11:21 PM
Hey, checking in late – been deer hunting in Mississippi for 4 days so happy New Year! Frozen toes and it’s about to get colder….
What a great season it’s been – so many interesting matchups.
Can’t believe Indy sat Manning. That’s just wrong.. ’72 Dolphins had how many heart attacks during the celebration???
Caught the Saints on the radio on the back roads coming back. Was glad they started Brunell at QB. Better late than never – the receivers needed some practice w/ a lefty QB in case the worst happens with Brees. Sure I wanted a win, and Payton should have been putting Brunell in some of the blowouts earlier this season, but N.O. needs rest more than anything.
On Cajun talk radio there’s a bit of false bravado going on, worried callers expounding on about how it’s smart that Payton basically conceded today’s game to Carolina, but still s**tting their pants and wondering where they put the paper bags.
Myself, I think that the Saints have been sleeping since the Dallas loss, and the rest of the league should overlook them at their own peril. Brees and Payton and Williams at def. coordinator are a pretty savvy bunch and these playoffs are going to be epic.
Happy New Year to all!
cane_loader on January 4, 2010 at 1:11 AM
To the victors go the spoils. They earned the right to lay down and pick their playoff opponent just like the Colts did. Of course, I imagine they would have rather it not been against the team they just played but so be it. We’ll know next week whether it was a smart strategy or not.
I always hated when teams did that until this week. Face it, had the Bengals tried to win the game and subsequently knocked out the Jets, they would be facing the one team that really knocked them around this year, Houston. The Texans beat the Bengals 28-17 in Cincinnati at midseason in a game that wasn’t as close as the score.
And in case a Minnesota fan takes umbrage with that statement, here’s why I said it: Neither Favre or Peterson lit up the stat columns that day. The Bengals “committed” so many penalties that day they never gave themselves a chance. Against the Texans, Schaub was unstoppable, throwing for 392 yards.
rmel80 on January 4, 2010 at 4:27 AM
Gotta hand it to the Cowboys.
Did the Eagles even show?
–
Heck did the Bengals show yesterday?
CWforFreedom on January 4, 2010 at 6:52 AM
So, did you bag anything?
Del Dolemonte on January 4, 2010 at 11:00 AM
Not me – I was tempted to bag some of them damn squirrels but didn’t have the right gun in the stand. Overkill and all that ;-).
But two of the fellas got a real nice 165# doe and a 6-pointer. As it’s a rural area where everyone knows everyone who goes down the road, a few of the locals went with us down the road to this farm where one of the guys has a great abattoir setup – ceiling winch, sharp knives and Sawz-All, lots of dogs waiting for the scraps and a big fire in the stovepipe (everyone in those parts out of McComb has these – two 55-gallon drums welded vertically, stuff ‘em with red pine or whatever + some crude-soaked shop rags, pour in a smidge of gasoline, step back and throw in a burning shaving and watch the thing fire off like a 5″ gun).
The fella’s 7-y.o. kid was antsy to sight in the sweet cut-down youth-model .243 that Santa brought, but it was night by then instead I took advantage of the dark horizons to show him Orion, the Dog Star, the Pleades and Polaris.
We’ve got some poachers came in and bagged most of the ‘coons but the old man saw them and next time their truck pulls in they’re going to face a committee meeting! LOL
cane_loader on January 4, 2010 at 1:48 PM