Dems wave white flag on cap-and-trade
posted at 11:00 am on December 27, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
When even Dick Durbin (D-IL) says that Senate Democrats have to be “realistic” about their energy policy in light of a struggling economy, it means that Barbara Boxer and John Kerry had better get used to disappointment. Battered by a health-care overhaul debate that will almost certainly return to them next month, some Senate Democrats have warned leadership that they will not support a cap-and-trade bill in this economy (via Geoff A):
Bruised by the health care debate and worried about what 2010 will bring, moderate Senate Democrats are urging the White House to give up now on any effort to pass a cap-and-trade bill next year.
“I am communicating that in every way I know how,” says Sen. Mary Landrieu (D-La.), one of at least half a dozen Democrats who’ve told the White House or their own leaders that it’s time to jettison the centerpiece of their party’s plan to curb global warming. …
“We need to deal with the phenomena of global warming, but I think it’s very difficult in the kind of economic circumstances we have right now,” said Indiana Democratic Sen. Evan Bayh, who called passage of any economy-wide cap and trade “unlikely.” …
“I’d just as soon see that set aside until we work through the economy,” said Sen. Ben Nelson (D-Neb.). “What we don’t want to do is have anything get in the way of working to resolve the problems with the economy.”
“Climate change in an election year has very poor prospects,” added Sen. Kent Conrad (D-N.D.). “I’ve told that to the leadership.”
Of course, Harry Reid knew that when he rescheduled the Boxer-Kerry effort for spring 2010. He didn’t have much choice. After all, he hadn’t passed a health-care bill in any form by Thanksgiving, which meant he needed all of his available floor time for ObamaCare anyway. Anyone watching the economic indicators also realized that Democrats would have to make a “hard pivot” on jobs and the economy at the first of the year if they wanted to have any chance of holding onto Congress in the midterms.
The very last thing the American economy needs is a new set of massive taxes on energy production. Energy costs are multipliers in the distribution chain, and price hikes would cause prices to escalate rapidly on almost every product for sale in the US. We would have runaway inflation at the same time we would have either negative or anemic growth, hardly a combination that wins elections for the party in power. And that doesn’t take into account the regional electoral issues in states that rely on coal for their economies — states like Indiana, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Arkansas, and Ohio, who have Democrats representing them in the Senate … for now.
Cap-and-trade is dead, at least for 2010, unless the Cultural Ministers for Corruption Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid can find more ways to bribe Democratic Senators into committing career suicide. I wouldn’t necessarily dismiss that possibility.
Blowback
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This is the same dribble we heard before Health care reform.
patrick neid on December 27, 2009 at 3:00 PM
In other words… it’s a lie that Cap & Trade is good for the economy… and that a “green” economy is good for most Americans.
mankai on December 27, 2009 at 3:02 PM
Hmm, does that mean those of us from Chicago who don’t feel all warm and fuzzy about Senator Durbin, have to stop calling him by his
nickfirst name…”Dick?”Nalea on December 27, 2009 at 3:04 PM
Aww.. C’mon Mary Landrieu I’m sure you can put on the party dress for one more quick roll in sack with Dingy Harry. How does another 400 million $$$ sound to a coin operated beaver like yourself Mary??
Dire Straits on December 27, 2009 at 3:06 PM
Yeah, and I trust their word just as much as when they tell me they won’t go after gun control anymore. (Translated, it means: They will, as soon as it’s expedient.)
Socratease on December 27, 2009 at 3:07 PM
Whoa ho ho there now…. There is no statist liberal program that ever dies–it simply goes dormant. If it is now dormant, then that is when it needs to be killed, it needs to be pursued, it needs to be hunted, and it needs to be scattered amongst the wolves —following that, the computers and the twisted brains that spawned cap and trained need to be smashed, the keyboards destroyed and the hard drives nuked—then, and only then, will I even consider that cap and trade is anywhere near, dead. In the old days, we considered “shelving legislation” as a good thing… but those days are gone.
ted c on December 27, 2009 at 3:12 PM
Akzed on December 27, 2009 at 3:23 PM
Ridiculous. After listening to the Liberals screech about Acid Rain for years, the Government funded a study in the 1980′s and flew biologists and forestry nuts and granola heads all over the East Coast taking pictures and samples (the Liberals were saying that Vast swaths of forests were “moonscape” and that the lakes were fuming vats of chemicals”) the Government, after spending about half a billion dollars on the study, showed that all this was a lie.
Perhaps jeanie, you could come up with a more exotic scare? How about that there is a “hole” over the south pole and we are all going to die of Ultraviolet radiation? I always liked that one. Or how about that the whole world is warming up and we are all going to die?
Here is a new one that is just starting up, How about that you cell phone causes brain damage? Cool, huh?
GunRunner on December 27, 2009 at 3:25 PM
B.bb.bbbb.but there were all of those valiant members of the House of Representatives that have already *sniff* voted on this measure….. D..d.d.do you think that the voters will still hold those congressmen accountable for their vote now that cap and trade is *sniff* …dead????
///liberal whiner off
ted c on December 27, 2009 at 3:28 PM
Found it: National Acid Precipitation Program 1987.
Read it Jeanie, it will make you “feel” better.
GunRunner on December 27, 2009 at 3:32 PM
I suppose that your’acid’(lol)attack on my point of view is meant to disparage it and so it may do with many here. But, I still and always will favor some reasonable environmental controls and acid rain is one of these.
jeanie on December 27, 2009 at 3:50 PM
Yeah right. So’s healthcare and amnesty. And Freddy.
LibTired on December 27, 2009 at 3:51 PM
Translation: They’re going to be working on fixing the economy by bringing in new workers and reducing the deficit by recruiting new tax payers; amnesty.
El_Terrible on December 27, 2009 at 3:51 PM
And for the liberals this too shall not pass.
Demonic fanaticism is the liberal hallmark, any piece of significantly destructive agenda will never be forgotten.
Speakup on December 27, 2009 at 3:55 PM
Anyone who believes that the Liberal Party has waved the white flag about anything is very confused. The EPA will take care of cap n trade and then more.
mobydutch on December 27, 2009 at 3:56 PM
Yes. It’s no coincidence the EPA listed CO2 as harmful to humans…even though we emit it every time we exhale.
Congress won’t pass Cap-and-Trade, but Obama will get his skyrocketing energy prices.
And a riot.
englishqueen01 on December 27, 2009 at 4:08 PM
It is dead if and only if the GOp lets it go as an issue. The gop should be pushing to have this brought up. If the GOp was smart (which they are not) they would be pushing to make cap and trade illegal. They should be pushing cut funding for the EPA if they carry on with their threat ro reg CO2. the GOP needs this as an election year issue because if it is not talked about in 2010 and the dems win again in 2011 it becomes law just like healthcare
The GOP needs to attack attack attack
unseen on December 27, 2009 at 4:15 PM
JDPerren on December 27, 2009 at 4:26 PM
I respectfully disagree. That would be a good start, but the problem isn’t fundamentally political, and it doesn’t have a political solution.
Progressivism has infected the U.S. for generations now and only an overthrow of that philosophy in the minds of Americans – on many points of the political compass – will do the trick. Otherwise, we’ll just get another batch little better than the last batch.
Remember, Nixon gave birth to the EPA and Reagan did little to tame it, much less eliminate it. Even Wells Fargo Bank advertising is filled with “green” propaganda. A cultural/philosophical revolution is needed before we’ll see the back of this insanity.
JDPerren on December 27, 2009 at 4:36 PM
It remains an unclear mystery to me how the EPA can do anything BUT impose carbon limits directly on carbon emmitters.
And without any proof that limiting them by 10% or 100% will make any difference, I see no reason for them to not ban all carbon emmissions.
In fact, how could they justify NOT banning them completely?
This leaves us with the in your face reality of the Obama administration admitting it is all political while they play games with the EPA.
Freddy on December 27, 2009 at 4:48 PM
Don’t believe it.
Starlink on December 27, 2009 at 4:54 PM
Look, “approximately half” of the USA plus 7 points voted for O-scumbag. He wants Cap and Rape and Trade.
He will get it.
He just raped the people of the USA, with the healthcare-scam, that bill should have been called O-scumbag – Reid Bill.
Too many morons in the country, period. I have people that think they are in the know. I ask them about AirForce One over Manhattan and they are clueless.
No words to describe the stupidity…
Say a prayer for the USA and that President Barack Hussein Obama would get saved and become a Christian.
father on December 27, 2009 at 5:30 PM
The administration no longer needs cap and trade. They can get everything they want and more through the EPA.
MarkTheGreat on December 27, 2009 at 5:31 PM
I totally agree. Mary Landrieu is unquestionably the least attractive highest priced whore in history.
For those kinds of dollars, you expect Elizabeth Taylor in her prime or something.
wildcat84 on December 27, 2009 at 5:44 PM
Regarding the acid rain part of this thread, there are several considerations.
First is that acid rain was more prevelant in the US in the 60′s before soft coal users added scrubbers to their smoke stacks. Soft coal is actually soft due to its higher sulfer content. The process of creating acid rain is very simple, so2 from soft coal going into water vapor and coming back to earth in with the rain. The levels of acid were bad enough to leave water spot like marks on car finishes. There was never enough to destroy forests or any of the major scare theories of the day, but getting ones car trashed was enough of a reason to add the scrubbers.
By the time people looked in the 80′s, most all of the producers were using scrubbers. With the changes, and elimination, of much of the steel industry, open burning of soft coal became a non-issue. Power plants are the biggest burners of soft coal in the US these days. Of course, there are already many regulations on what they do in their smoke stacks.
Freddy on December 27, 2009 at 5:45 PM
I think it’s just toilet paper stuck to their shoe.
Cybergeezer on December 27, 2009 at 5:52 PM
The Democrats haven’t give up on Crap on Trade. They have merely decided to rename it, and sneak it in with another Bill.
Am I the only one who follows political history here? ;o)
DannoJyd on December 27, 2009 at 6:10 PM
To quote Young Frankenstein:
Ah riot iz ahn uglee sink…ahnt itz about time ve stahted one!
wordsmithy2009 on December 27, 2009 at 6:20 PM
And we need some more ‘common sense’ gun laws, too, right jeanie?
After all, will someone please think of the children?!?
Lanceman on December 27, 2009 at 6:22 PM
Yep. Cap ‘n Tax is dead… just like ObamaCare was in critical condition. Don’t believe it for one second.
CC
CapedConservative on December 27, 2009 at 6:53 PM
Oh, and Pelosi says they won’t vote for ANYTHING controversial in 2010. Sure. And global warming is real. This moron signs a deal based on what is proven to be fraudulent data and they think they can make us believe they won’t pass Cap ‘n Tax. Bu((sh!t.
CC
CapedConservative on December 27, 2009 at 6:55 PM
Just words…
Mr. Arrogant on December 27, 2009 at 7:49 PM
For all you chemically challenged folk:
“Water spots” on cars are not acid anything. Zip, nada, nothing
Plain old marble, AKA calcium carbonate, remains after the water evaporates.
Moisten a soft cloth and wipe. No more water spots.
Oh, sorry. Forgot that lifting a hand for yourself is beyond some American’s ability. Sucks to be you.
Caststeel on December 27, 2009 at 8:09 PM
Just how does that marble get in to the rain? a half bright reader asked.
One word; dust. Calcium carbonate is soluble in water, enough anyway.
More questions? Yahoo it.
Caststeel on December 27, 2009 at 8:23 PM
It should be clear to every thinking person by now that it is the EPA which is harmful to human health, and that it is the EPA and its regulations which must be shut down, dumped in a big trench, and buried forever.
There is not now, nor has there ever been, a universally accepted definition of “the environment.” Since nobody can define what it is, people never will be able to agree on when it is “better” or “worse” (Just like the temperature of the earth).
Therefore, the EPA has just been a scam to create excuses to persecute citizens with needless and foolish regulations. Its creation was simply a trial run by the leftists to see how much foolishness they could get away with and how much freedom and money they could extort with a big lie about something which could not be proven. It was a precursor to the Global Warming scam.
All of this foolishness needs to be shut down ASAP!!!
landlines on December 27, 2009 at 9:06 PM
Years ago Mad Magazine published “The Lighter Side of Little Brothers”.
One quip stated that:
Liberals are like little brothers in that they have the capacity of screaming; “We are all going to die.” in the face of climate gate.
Delay means more time to get the truth out.
The Rock on December 27, 2009 at 9:07 PM
The science is STILL settled, however.
/believer
mankai on December 27, 2009 at 10:14 PM
“Babs” Boxer purchased “Big Girl” underoos specifically for the crap-and-trade battle royal – whatever will she do with them now?
ya2daup on December 27, 2009 at 10:35 PM
All-points bulletin for AnninCA: a favorite documentary of yours about melting is currently playing on TNT
ya2daup on December 27, 2009 at 10:38 PM
For all of you out there who think that the science on ANYTHING is settled: Really? I thought science was all about asking questions and answering questions and asking MORE questions because just about the time that cold, hard, science has answered a question, 30 or 40 more pop up about the same subject. If someone says “the science is settled” I start thinking about all of those flat-earthers way back when who really believed that their science was settled and the earth truly was flat. Please get a clue! The one thing I know for sure about the Earth is this: it is a huge ecosystem seemingly, at times, with a mind of it’s own, with cycles and unexplored depths and heights. It’s gone through warming and cooling cycles, has had acid rains in it’s atmo. specifically after a volcanic eruption or two, and occasionally throws humanity a curve ball by shaking things up, seismically speaking. It can not be tamed, managed, or controlled. That’s why “she” is called Mother Earth. She’s a wild woman, hot to the core. (A million degrees, right Al Gore?)
As far as Cap and Trade, Crap and Tax: I think it’s a stupid, convoluted, confusing, shell game that will involve back room trading, a turning of a blind eye to a country or company that doesn’t exactly pay or play fairly but has favor with the powers that be. OF COURSE THE LIBS ARE GOING TO BRING THIS UP AGAIN!!! This kind of folly is right up their alley. This is too criminally insane not to bring up again.
Driefromseattle on December 27, 2009 at 11:55 PM
Death toll is up to 15 according to The Times of London. Running street battles all night long. There’s youtube video of a policeman having his gear stripped.
crosspatch on December 28, 2009 at 2:50 AM
oops, wrong thread
crosspatch on December 28, 2009 at 2:59 AM
I really hope they(DemocRats) go for this. Maybe it will get people to DC this summer for the million “teabaggers” march.
Go for it Barry! I dare you.
mmcnamer1 on December 28, 2009 at 10:00 AM
These are the same idiots that claim it would be disastrous to increase taxes during ‘this economy’, yet argue breathlessly that lower taxes do not help the economy and that ‘Cap’N Rape’ will be good for the economy!
cntrlfrk on December 28, 2009 at 11:45 AM
All rain is slightly acidic, due to the chemical reaction of natural carbon dioxide with rainwater to produce dilute carbonic acid (H2CO3). Since all plants need carbon dioxide in the atmosphere for their growth, they are well adapted to the slight acidity of rainwater. Since carbon dioxide is less soluble in warm water than in cold water, in temperate climates, the leaves of deciduous trees are only exposed to warmer and less acidic rain that falls during the warmer seasons (late spring, summer, early autumn). Evergreen trees, which are exposed to colder winter rain, are probably more resistant to “acid rain”.
However, the “acid rain” that was deplored in the 1970′s comes from the reaction of SULFUR dioxide with rainwater to produce sulfurous acid (H2SO3), which is a much stronger acid than carbonic acid.
It’s true that acid rain causes little damage to areas that emit sulfur dioxide, because it takes time for the SO2 to rise into the clouds and react with rainwater, and the “acid rain” usually falls several hundred miles downwind of where the SO2 was emitted. Since the prevailing winds over the northern United States are from the west, sulfur dioxide emitted in the Midwest can cause acid rain in New England.
Sulfur dioxide can be produced by burning coal and high-sulfur heavy oil, but since the 1970′s there have been many successful cooperative efforts between the EPA and oil companies to remove sulfur compounds from heavy oil BEFORE it is burned, where the sulfur can be recovered either as pure solid sulfur, or as liquid sulfuric acid which can be used for battery acid or as a reactant in the chemical or metallurgical industry. For all the complaints about the “greedy oil companies”, they have spent billions of dollars on “fuel oil desulfurization plants” in refineries in order to comply with EPA regulations on sulfur content of fuel oil.
While “acid rain” from sulfur dioxide emissions is generally considered harmful, both to trees and corrosion of metallic outdoor objects (cars, buildings, sculptures, etc.), in a few rare instances it can be beneficial. I have seen a chemical plant in eastern France where hot sulfuric acid is reacted with ore to purify metals, which releases sulfur dioxide through a smokestack. Local wine producers planted a vineyard on the steep slopes of a mountain overlooking the chemical plant, claiming that the vines can absorb sulfur dioxide, which produces a chemical in the grapes that greatly improves the taste of the wine, which is the most expensive wine from that region.
This is obviously a rare exception to the well-established principle that SULFUR dioxide is toxic and harmful to people and the environment, and its emissions SHOULD be limited. CARBON dioxide, however, is non-toxic and a vital compound in the atmosphere, necessary for all plant life on earth, on which all other life depends for survival, and should not be blamed for “acid rain”.
Steve Z on December 28, 2009 at 11:58 AM
I’d don’t buy it. The congress will ram it through or hide it somewhere.
mamagetsamini on December 28, 2009 at 3:40 PM
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