Video: DeMint objects to supermajority protection in Reid’s ObamaCare bill
posted at 8:48 am on December 22, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
At first, Senator Jim DeMint starts off with a few points of parliamentary inquiry which seem rather dull, but like any good prosecutor, DeMint is carefully building a case — and his target is a particularly noxious clause in Harry Reid’s ObamaCare bill. On page 1020 of the text, DeMint discovers that Reid has created a rule binding future sessions of Congress to a supermajority requirement to overrule the bill’s rationing board, the Independent Medical Advisory Board, whose purpose (stated on page 1001) is to “reduce the per capita rate of growth in Medicare spending.” DeMint demands an explanation of how the Majority Leader can allow legislation to alter the rules of the Senate, both on the floor and in committee. The Weekly Standard has the key portion of the transcript:
There ‘s one provision that I found particularly troubling and it’s under section C, titled “Limitations on changes to this subsection.”
And I quote — “It shall not be in order in the Senate or the House of Representatives to consider any bill, resolution, amendment, or conference report that would repeal or otherwise change this subsection.”
This is not legislation. It’s not law. This is a rule change. It’s a pretty big deal. We will be passing a new law and at the same time creating a Senate rule that makes it out of order to amend or even repeal the law.
I’m not even sure that it’s constitutional, but if it is, it most certainly is a Senate rule. I don’t see why the majority party wouldn’t put this in every bill. If you like your law, you most certainly would want it to have force for future Senates.
I mean, we want to bind future Congresses. This goes to the fundamental purpose of Senate rules: to prevent a tyrannical majority from trampling the rights of the minority or of future Congresses.
As I recall, Congress is not allowed to pass rules that bind future Congresses. In the House, the rules have to be offered and approved at the beginning of each session. The Senate has standing rules, but they are not in the form of law that requires further legislation to alter — legislation that would be, under this bill, out of order even to introduce. It basically makes Harry Reid the dictator of the Senate, not just now, but in perpetuity.
Is it unconstitutional? The ability of each Congress to govern itself is certainly strongly implied in Article I, Section 5:
Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings, punish its Members for disorderly Behavior, and, with the Concurrence of two-thirds, expel a Member.
Clearly the founders did not intend that to mean that the first Congress could set the rules in perpetuity, and indeed as DeMint points out, rule changes have been made consistently without resorting to legislation to accomplish them because of the orders of a prior Congress. Put another way, the elected representatives of today should not have greater authority than those who will follow them. Any attempt to pass this into legislation aggrandizes the power of this Congress at the expense of those that follow.
And as DeMint points out, it sets a very dangerous precedent regardless of which party is in power. What will be next — a Republican Congress declaring any future bill that increases taxes out of order? Would Democrats sit still for that, too?
Update: Gabriel Malor says the issue isn’t constitutionality, but the substance of what it protects. Be sure to read it all.









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Death Panels, Death Panels, Death Panels! I tell ya it is all about DEATH PANELS. Once these jerks have complete control they will:
Make abortion more available and affordable for certain demographics that tend to be a financial drain on the system. – Death Panel
Eliminate middle-aged women by denying early cancer detection, because the bean counters have determined they are the most expensive sector in health care costs. – Death Panels
Get rid of pesky seniors by denying treatments and grabbing every dime of their fixed incomes. – Death Panels
How else could this hair-brained scheme work, if there is not a drastic reduction in certain sectors of the population? Once this is all in place they will start working on all the new green jobs. Soylent Green jobs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
joedoe on December 22, 2009 at 9:50 AM
O/T…can someone give me some tips on how to get decent search results from HA? I hate linking to outside sites, but I can never find an old story with the current search function. I assume it is something I am failing in.
csdeven on December 22, 2009 at 9:52 AM
Plan B:
National Strike – January 20, 2010
Juno77 on December 22, 2009 at 9:52 AM
At least she gets it. Having a child with Down’s opens up a whole new world of understanding.
Who will these panels deem worthy of appropriate care? Only those between the ages of 18 and 45 who can be the worker bees to keep paying taxes? It looks as though the rest who are not as “useful” like the handicapped and elderly will be left without. This is not the hallmark of a civilized society. And yet, “progressives” somehow imagine that they are the compassionate, caring crowd.
Cody1991 on December 22, 2009 at 9:52 AM
Just heard KBH on local talk radio interview, says some sort of procedural vote on the constitutionality will come up tomorrow. I think it’ll be meaningless, or course; it’ll have to go through the courts to have any value, won’t it? There’s no chance any of the 60 are going to suddenly decide they can’t vote for this because it’s unconstitutional.
Midas on December 22, 2009 at 9:52 AM
The s*** is about to hit the fan.
Otis B on December 22, 2009 at 9:53 AM
What else is troubling here is the obvious corruption of the Senate Parliamentarian. Historically that office has been non-partisan, its loyalty only to the Senate rules. Here, clearly, the answer to DeMint’s inquiry was not based on the rules but on the orders of Reid.
But this does set the stage for an actual Point of Order on the grounds DeMint layed out. The Chair will rule against it, and the Senate will have to vote on whether to overturn that ruling, a two-thirds vote being required.
If it works, though I doubt it will, game over. The bill can’t draw 67 votes, so it’s either dead or Reid has to take the offending language out of the bill by pulling it down or via amendment. In any case, it will be next year before the revised bill can be considered.
TXUS on December 22, 2009 at 9:53 AM
Y’all need to relax. There’s only 3 more years of this stuff left.
PaCadle on December 22, 2009 at 9:53 AM
Said it before & gonna say it again. The real danger in Maobamas election was the SCOTUS appointments. He’ll most likely get 1 one more “wise___”. At that point, any challenge to the constitutionality of the structural changes these NeoMaxists are making will be futile. But Hey!..at least they’re appointed for life. “No reason to be fearful of an Obama administration.”
Itchee Dryback on December 22, 2009 at 9:56 AM
Sales would suggest that the 2nd is still foremost in a lot of people’s minds.
As I have noted before, in most cases a lot of the conservatives are just adding to existing stocks. I have a feeling that independents have been driving the record sales quite a bit since late 2008, but I also suspect that a whole bunch of “liberals” have seen a vision of the future and are buying for the first time.
Even up here the stocks of ammo on the store shelves are dwindling again. The shortage eased for a bit, then returned. My brother has been struggling, down in the Madison area, to find decent quantities of primers that aren’t priced like gold.
There may be a lot of guns and ammo under Christmas trees this year.
Yoop on December 22, 2009 at 9:58 AM
I am officially nervous. If these people can make rules at will, disregard the Constitution, and apparently, no one can stop them, then we, as a people, are in very serious trouble.
Dopenstrange on December 22, 2009 at 9:59 AM
Nu uh. Allah will finally become an alpha male and get an AK.
Babes can’t save us now. Unless they have an AK too!
donh525 on December 22, 2009 at 10:00 AM
I’ve become numb to the daily onslaught of socialist/liberal ideology and corruption causing the corrosion and degeneration of our country. For the past year I’ve anxiously looked forward to November 2010, but THIS has me furious. THIS can not be permitted to stand.
Devrbd on December 22, 2009 at 10:00 AM
So much for all the Libs that say “We will fix the problems in the legislation later.”
barnone on December 22, 2009 at 10:00 AM
Reloading supplies are difficult to get your hands on. I managed to snag some primers from an online site the other night, but by the next afternoon they were sold out. Powder is generally available, but even that can be hard to get in a popular type.
CBP on December 22, 2009 at 10:02 AM
Liberals don’t need to buy guns; they can just legislate you to death.
Dopenstrange on December 22, 2009 at 10:03 AM
Do. the. math.
They might try, but it ain’t gonna happen.
Yoop on December 22, 2009 at 10:03 AM
Not trying to be a smarta$$ but I can’t see this thing holding together 3 more years.
Dire Straits on December 22, 2009 at 10:03 AM
Yeah, senators get to define constitutional language now. That started when they determined John McCain is a natural born citizen. I don’t remember anyone, except for myself, complaining when that happened.
Even if it goes to the courts after that, the lib judges will get to point to the senate determination to buttress their tyrannical ruling.
Buddahpundit on December 22, 2009 at 10:05 AM
All of you who made fun of me over the last year when i said revolution is coming better think again.These Sen.& congressmen have no regard for the constitution or the people they only want absolute power for ever.This whole bill stands the constitution on it,s head.We will never take the country back by voting a few out every 2 years.Our last change to right this country is in the form of a constitutional convention called by the states the feds can not stop that like they can constitutional amendments .If this fails Revolution is coming.
thmcbb on December 22, 2009 at 10:07 AM
Gold, bullets, and cigarettes. Stock up. Just sayin’
ncc770 on December 22, 2009 at 10:07 AM
This crap needS to hit the msm right now!It’s not enough that we know it,the braindead out there who think it won’t affect them need to know.I know…most of them voted for this little man.
The are causing so much anger out here,but it could be what they want.
DAMN THE TORPEDOES,FULL SPEED AHEAD!!!!
ohiobabe on December 22, 2009 at 10:08 AM
I read recently that bullet manufacturers are running overtime. They expect to manufacture more than 3 BILLION 9MM bullets this year.
I don’t expect a gun ban, I expect a bullet tax. There is already a $.15 per arrow federal tax, not sure how much we are already paying per bullet. I expect it to go way up.
barnone on December 22, 2009 at 10:08 AM
I think this has come down to 3 choices:
1) Yield to the tyrants.
2) Fight a brutally difficult, protracted battle.
or
3) Get out of country.
rplat on December 22, 2009 at 10:11 AM
This kind of provision is unAmerican. Who is Harry Reid to declare something like this? American laws are not to be unrepealable.
A little reminder from the Declaration of Independence…
CP on December 22, 2009 at 10:13 AM
How can this thing hold up, if people like Bloomberg and Patterson are saying it is a complete disaster? Something has got to give with this bill before the country explodes.
joedoe on December 22, 2009 at 10:14 AM
Hopefully with some PVC for storage – just in case.
Fake8 on December 22, 2009 at 10:14 AM
I don’t expect a gun ban, I expect a bullet tax
//
That’s okay,there were plenty enough sold last year to last and they needn’t try to come out here in the boonies and try to get them either.
ohiobabe on December 22, 2009 at 10:14 AM
Over at Ace’s, Gabriel makes the point that this probably isn’t unconstitutional. And apparently both parties have done this sort of thing in the past.
BadgerHawk on December 22, 2009 at 10:15 AM
I’m rushing toward 69, then 70. Even in this remote area the doctor’s have been excellent at ferreting out the very rare condition that was doing me in, and have been diligent in slowing the progress. I expect they will not have quite the same freedom to continue in that direction once ObamaCare is in place.
But, in the mean time this old timer can still “Think straight, talk straight, and shoot straight”. So, when the government panel decides I’m out of time I just have to decide who among them is making the trip with me… ;-)
Yoop on December 22, 2009 at 10:16 AM
1) Hell no
2) I’m in
3) Hell no
Devrbd on December 22, 2009 at 10:17 AM
Anyone remember Ray Stevens? He had a few legitimate musical hits in the 70′s, but he is mostly known for comedy (not comity) records. He has a pretty good political one out about the health care bill (We the People). lol
http://raystevens.com/main/index.php
joedoe on December 22, 2009 at 10:17 AM
Something has got to give with this bill before the country explodes.
joedoe on December 22, 2009 at 10:14 AM
//
It’s exploding,it’s on a slow burn right now,,if how I felt when I read, here and on redstate and the american thinker and the weekly standard,is any indication.
ohiobabe on December 22, 2009 at 10:19 AM
Republicans can play hardball on this sh!t if it does pass. When they pick up 60 House seats and 5 Senate seats next year, they will have at least a working majority in both houses. They can then simply refuse to appropriate funds for any of this sh!t. No money for any IMAB board, staff, or publication. No money for any new health insurance exchange. No money for the CLASS Act bomb. No money for the Medicaid expansion.
And they can do all of this through reconciliation with 51 votes in the Senate. Hahahahahaha!
rockmom on December 22, 2009 at 10:19 AM
I have been slobbering over the ads in The American Rifleman for military style semi-auto assault rifles forever. Though I own some major home protection weapons (live in the country) It’s time to get serious about something heavier.
I’ve owned .223, .243, .270, in bolt action but, man, I would love to have me one of those assault type semi’s. Just the look is great, and to have one in my hands, heaven.
Not going to be around a lot longer, might as well go happy.
I like the new S&W in .223.
donh525 on December 22, 2009 at 10:19 AM
I think this has come down to 3 choices:
4) Move to the new country of Alaska.
joedoe on December 22, 2009 at 10:19 AM
Number 3 is not an option. This is our country. We helped build it into what it is. It is worth defending. There are still Patriots.
It. Will. Be. Defended.
Yoop on December 22, 2009 at 10:21 AM
To arms?
BowHuntingTexas on December 22, 2009 at 10:21 AM
Sorry, that was for Santa!
donh525 on December 22, 2009 at 10:22 AM
What does Scary care about the rules of the Senate, he threw that in there cause he knows he’s done. This whole thing is unconstitutional but they don’t care.
Brat4life on December 22, 2009 at 10:22 AM
rplat on December 22, 2009 at 10:11 AM
//
Why give this country up to tyrants?????? Our founding fathers didn’t!
ohiobabe on December 22, 2009 at 10:22 AM
donh525 on December 22, 2009 at 10:24 AM
Guns and ammo are good to have but you, me all that love this country must believe and know with all there heart and soul.We were born free and must be willing to die free.
thmcbb on December 22, 2009 at 10:24 AM
Don’t feel like the Lone Ranger. My bet is there are plenty of folks feeling the same way.
petefrt on December 22, 2009 at 10:25 AM
Legal Insurrection caught this, too.
Wethal on December 22, 2009 at 10:25 AM
Don’t forget the TP!
VikingGoneWild on December 22, 2009 at 10:25 AM
I would expect National Socialist to try and institute some – as they call it “minor Gun-safety rules” before they go for the golden ring of a Confiscation.
Expect them to try and use the terror watch lists as a non due process way of cutting down the number of people who can buy guns.
Expect them to TRY to have the Feds have a finger in EVERY gun sale transaction as a start of an Official registration system and expect them to try and further restrict your rights with rules for reporting the lose or theft of your guns.
Never mind that NOT ONE of the these measures will reduce crime, The whole point will be to gradually constrict gun ownership and continue building a database of gun ownership.
The National Socialist Democrats cannot allow a free people the luxury of self-defense, expect them to attack it.
Fake8 on December 22, 2009 at 10:26 AM
Count me in.
By the way. Who stands in the path of an armed citizenry?
donh525 on December 22, 2009 at 10:29 AM
Gold, bullets, and cigarettes. Stock up. Just sayin’
ncc770 on December 22, 2009 at 10:07 AM
//
I’m sure most of us conservatives have been stockin’ for awhile now.
ohiobabe on December 22, 2009 at 10:30 AM
This also applies to the deal made with Nelson about Nebraska Medicaid. The Republicans were not a party to this deal and should make the repeal of it a top priority the next time they win a majority in both houses. As a budget provision, it would only need fifty votes in the Senate, but I’d bet enough Democrats could be shamed into voting for repeal that sixty votes could be won.
thuja on December 22, 2009 at 10:30 AM
I don’t think they care what the forefathers intended at all. I think they want to impose a form of government not heretofore known in this country.
Shay on December 22, 2009 at 10:31 AM
Can you site an example of Republicans acting this way on a piece of legislation as hugh as this, or even close to this? Do you have any idea of how this will fundamentally change the way we do business in this country. It has never happened in my lifetime and I’ve been around for alot of election cycles and spent many of them voting Democrat.
whbates on December 22, 2009 at 10:32 AM
Not being quarrelsome but they have no shame. This vote on cloture proved it.
donh525 on December 22, 2009 at 10:34 AM
Permanent law?
Hmmmmm….think of the possibilities….
“It shall not be in order in the Senate or the House of Representatives to consider any bill, resolution, amendment, or conference report
that would repeal or otherwise change this subsectionoffered by any political party not affiliated with the Republican Party, nor approved by BobMbx.”Yeah. That’s how we get it done.
BobMbx on December 22, 2009 at 10:34 AM
Oh my God…
That is STRAIGHT out of Chavez’ playbook he used to give himself total control over the legislature but still called it “Democracy” because you still have a chance to vote it down later on.
This is anything but limited government.
Skywise on December 22, 2009 at 10:34 AM
It’s unpatriotic to toss the bums out.
BobMbx on December 22, 2009 at 10:35 AM
I think they want to impose a form of government not heretofore known in this country.
Shay on December 22, 2009 at 10:31 AM
//
You’re right there.These people are enemies of this country unlike we have seen and we need to get fight them on their rules.No more pc,No more politeness because they don’t want to be called racists,say what needs to be said and let the chips fall where they may.
ohiobabe on December 22, 2009 at 10:36 AM
But – will Majority Leader McConnell et. al. bring the Point of Order up? Will they bring a Point of Order for allowing the Sen. Sanders’ amendment to be withdrawn – a clear violation of Parliamentarian rules?
If so – when!? Now is the time, is it not? What are they waiting for? Call for final vote, perhaps? Didn’t Reid slam the door on such a Point of Order call when he outlined the proposed schedule?
Tyranny!
DINORight on December 22, 2009 at 10:36 AM
God please give me PaCadle’s composure.
Nalea on December 22, 2009 at 10:38 AM
You might want to reconsider. That might just be an invitation to the “spray and pray” method of ammo expenditure.
Take that .243 or .270, scoped, and dial it in to 300 or 400 yards. Learn to reach out and touch something at that range. There is REAL effective use of each round.
Yoop on December 22, 2009 at 10:39 AM
Forgive my ignorance, but what is IMAB? I didn’t see it in the posts, except for the quoted section by Wethal.
DINORight on December 22, 2009 at 10:40 AM
It’s unpatriotic to toss the bums out.
BobMbx on December 22, 2009 at 10:35 AM
donh525 on December 22, 2009 at 10:41 AM
IEDs baby, IEDs.
BobMbx on December 22, 2009 at 10:42 AM
Really? I don’t recall anything in the Patriot Act that said these laws can never be repealed.
I don’t recall anything in Bush’ bailout last year that gave the government control over companies salaries or business practices. Just bailout money.
I don’t recall anything in enforcing the Gulf War treaty that forced me to a> fight in the army or b> buy stuff from Blackwater.
NO. Republican’s did not and do not do the same thing.
Now did they pass the McCain-Feingold act? Yeah. But the power shift between that and this is the difference between night and day.
Skywise on December 22, 2009 at 10:43 AM
Yoop, you’re in to sniper tactics now. I’ve killed a lot of ground hogs from 300 yards with .223. The .243 or .270 are damn loud and the neighbors get tired of jumping out of their skin and replacing china.
donh525 on December 22, 2009 at 10:46 AM
Just picked up 500 more rounds of Federal Tactical 00 buckshot.
Gonna order some more M855 right after Christmas.
donkichi on December 22, 2009 at 10:46 AM
Agreed.
But its subtle tyranny.
The populace has been lulled to ignorance.
They like their free govt handouts.
And they are just beginning to understand the price that comes with those ‘free’ goodies.
Badger40 on December 22, 2009 at 10:55 AM
I never owned a gun, primarily because I really had no familiarity with them and never really figured I’d need one. That was before I started hearing a certain politician talk about “civilian national security forces that are just as powerful, just as strong as the military.” I’m not an alarmist, but I do believe that something very big is happening in this country, and I no longer believe that my rights are guaranteed. And as far as I know, nobody has even been worse off by being prepared.
I bought my Mossberg 500 in December of last year.
Dopenstrange on December 22, 2009 at 10:55 AM
Jeez, what took so long. I was terrified of these morons after election night 2008.
txdoc on December 22, 2009 at 10:59 AM
Sorry. Tend to forget other people have neighbors.
When you have a couple hundred acres and your own shooting range off the back deck one tends to get complacent about the noise. :-)
Yoop on December 22, 2009 at 11:02 AM
I’m telling you, its just from bad to worse as each day unfolds and the capricious power grab by the Progressive Caucus further undermines our Republic.
There is nothing like refreshing one’s grasp of the past masters to illuminate the dark path upon which we now trod, it well worn by great civilizations past that grace us with there presence no longer.
I’ve just recently finished Hayek’s “The Road to Serfdom” who goes into exquisite detail how, whatever their original intent, collectivist ism’s of every brand inevitably must result in totalitarian policy. Now I’ve taken up re-reading Gibbon’s “Decline and Fall of Rome” and the parallels to our governence (or lack there-of) are striking.
What is truly sad (other than the demise of our country) is reading the greats used to instill the thrill of inspiration in the attainment of wisdom. Now it is like watching a Nightmare on Elmstreet ptVI, for the umpteenth time. Knowing the evil plot and the casualties in advance and that when in the end the remaining characters free themselves of Freddie’s cluchtes, some remanent of his evil survives to be resurrected again for a ptVII.
Collectivism is seemingly forever reborn to wreak its havok upon us in perpetuity.
Archimedes on December 22, 2009 at 11:07 AM
“Hitherto the plans of educationalists have achieved very little of what they attempted… but the man-moulders of the new age will be armed with the powers of an omnicompetent state and an irresistible scientific technique: we shall get at last a race of conditioners who really can cut out all posterity in what shape they please.” – C.S. Lewis, from “The Abolition of Man” – a book I highly recommend for everyone. It’s eerily prophetic (especially the last two parts).
Kelli_D on December 22, 2009 at 11:10 AM
This is meaningless. The Republican’s should simply announce that if these clauses stand the next time they hold a majority in a the Senate they will change Senate rules to set cloture at a simply majority and then simply amend the bill.
The Standing Rules of the Senate are not a suicide pact either.
Rocks on December 22, 2009 at 11:12 AM
You’re not home, you’re in heaven.
donh525 on December 22, 2009 at 11:13 AM
T told you it was about power & control, not health.
royzer on December 22, 2009 at 11:23 AM
I think it’s because collectivism is inherently organic. We’re bio-engineered to group together for survival. If not by “pack” then by family. Look at the gangs in LA. People congregate into packs for acceptance and acknowledgement because they have no family structure at home and are then manipulated to do bad things because that’s how the people in charge maintain control. Individuality and Liberty is an evolved trait by people who understand that you can’t trust groupthink.
Obama, of all people, should understand that. But he found his family in socialism and thinks that if only he could make a perfect groupthink organization then nobody would have to be alone again.
Skywise on December 22, 2009 at 11:24 AM
We stood in line for well over an hour at the gun counter at Cabela’s the other day.
Chewy the Lab on December 22, 2009 at 11:25 AM
There’s a reason they call the Upper Peninsula “God’s Country”.
Yoop on December 22, 2009 at 11:42 AM
This is a betrayal of the spirit of democracy. the republicans acted the same way when they were in the majority which is why the dems were voted in. The expansion of the federal government, s-chip etc were all done by the reps. The point made is that they are all despicable albeit the republicans less so.
csdeven on December 22, 2009 at 11:45 AM
Why ask me for examples when you have your own? It was the small intrusions that soured people on the republicans and they figured the dems would be less so. I could have, and did tell those idiots that the dems would be worse. The point is had the reps not acted like power grabbing democrats, they would not have been booted out, would still hold the majority, and Obama would be another Al Gore desperately trying to find validity.
csdeven on December 22, 2009 at 11:50 AM
Good for DeMint.
I tried to get through the manager’s amendment yesterday and saw a few things like this that gave me pause, but without having the full bill and about 100 other statutes and regs that are cited and amended, it’s almost impossible to decipher. I’d bet big money, though, that there are plenty more gems like this one buried deep.
LASue on December 22, 2009 at 11:52 AM
This is meaningless. The Republican’s should simply announce that if these clauses stand the next time they hold a majority in a the Senate they will change Senate rules to set cloture at a simply majority and then simply amend the bill.
The Standing Rules of the Senate are not a suicide pact either.
Rocks on December 22, 2009 at 11:12 AM
This statement presumes that the Progressive’s will not rewrite the rules as they pertain to elections as well. You could mistakenly assume “that they wouldn’t dare”, yet this very act of rewriting our 200+ yr norms of governence would seem to prove you wrong.
As we are watching the progressive Caucus plow on with their program completely in contradiction to the will of the populace, does it not strike you as odd that they act as if they are impervious to said will? Have we not seen a plethora of shennanigans only this last election with antics of ACORN, etal? Do you the situation will be vastly improved by 2012? Especially after witnessing their willingness to politicize the census.
I ask you, when in history have collectivists, with their inherent proclivity for authoritarianism, ever departed the political stage according to Marquis of Queensbury Rules? Can you point to just one in times past that did not employ every manner of subterfuge, coercion and intimidation to retain power?
When you stop to realize that they are well aware that who comes in to replace them has the power to investigate, coupled with the trillions of dollars that have vanished from our treasury, you will get some measure their desperation to avert granting their opposition the opportunity. If you think for one fleeting moment that these people are inclined to shrug & say “oh well” and depart graciously you are sadly mistaken.
Archimedes on December 22, 2009 at 11:52 AM
This is really pretty scary..a ‘rule’ is not a ‘rule’ when the democrats want it to be something else and a Congress can pass law that binds all future Congresses!
If our Senators had a set they would wait for the mess to pass on Thursday and then March to the nearest federal court, all 40 members, and challenge the law on constitutional grounds as this is clearly not legal and even our corrupt courts will have to note it.
JIMV on December 22, 2009 at 11:55 AM
Now I’m half-expecting that somebody in Congress will try to sneak into the latest version of ObamaCare a provision to try to limit Second Amendment rights in some way — make it a felony for someone who’s applied for government healthcare to own guns, mandate a huge new tax on ammunition, etc., etc. Why not, if Reid just decided to throw in a provision forbidding future Congresses from even considering the repeal of any portion of ObamaCare.
Civil disobedience. Now. Let’s start it already.
Aitch748 on December 22, 2009 at 11:56 AM
Amen…they should not talk but act!!!
JIMV on December 22, 2009 at 12:08 PM
The courts will not touch this mess until it is a signed bill…30 seconds after Obama signs it the entire republican congress should be in federal court in a photo op at least as big as the Obama one when they sign it…
They have a lot of grounds from the unequal taxation as a result of the deals to buy votes to the unconstitutional provisions binding future congresses to the broken senate rules…
There is nothing like a legal process in this mess..If the Congress will not listen to the people, then perhaps the courts will listen to the law.
In addition, the republicans should demand the court put implementation of the mess on hold till they rule.
JIMV on December 22, 2009 at 12:13 PM
They can’t charge me with a felony for something I don’t own, or possess. (grin)
Then buy it before it’s taxed. I have put away more ammo than I can conceivably use in the rest of my lifetime. A lot of it could be barter material, like for TP. ;-)
Yoop on December 22, 2009 at 12:18 PM
Well I see I have a title for my new book now.
THE AUDACITY OF HOPE AND CHANGE!!!
Where the hell does Reid get off pulling a stunt like that????
KILL THIS BILL!!!!!!! Anyone, on either side, that doesn’t rail against something like that, agrees with it, and should be booted out. We cannot let this happen! This is America , and not some dictatorship. Although, I suspect most of them have mashed tators for brains.
capejasmine on December 22, 2009 at 12:22 PM
Skywise, csdeven is correct. If the Republicans would’ve governed like Republicans instead of Democrats, Obamacare would be DOA.
Bush:”I’ve abandoned free market principles to save the free market system.” He was wrong, you let the system correct itself and leave gov’t out of it. Bush and the RINOS laid the groundwork for the Democrats to usher in socialism with Obamacare.
RedRobin145 on December 22, 2009 at 12:30 PM
It is becoming more clear, day by day. We are now at DefCon 5. Lock and Load, patriots.
Proud Texan on December 22, 2009 at 12:45 PM
RedRobin145 on December 22, 2009 at 12:30 PM
capejasmine on December 22, 2009 at 12:49 PM
Can someone please tell me when we reach the level of “High Crimes & Misdemeanors”? Is it just me, or did we not pass that point a few miles back?
Y’know that whole oath thingy about swearing to defend the Constitution against all enemies. Does it, or does it not have any legally binding ramifications?
Anyone?
Bueller? Bueller…..!
Archimedes on December 22, 2009 at 12:56 PM
What? S-Chip, was originally started in a Republican Congress as part of the overall welfare reform in 1997, with a Democrat president BTW, and it wasn’t 100% Republican either, it was a compromise to get welfare reform. The republicans were pikers in comparison to what is going on right now.
whbates on December 22, 2009 at 12:57 PM
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