DeMint to force vote on constitutionality of mandate

posted at 2:20 pm on December 22, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

Sen. Jim DeMint has had a busy week already, calling attention to the possibly-unconstitutional restriction on future Congresses in ObamaCare, and the very dangerous precedent it sets for future majorities desiring to lock out later modifications or repeals of their pet projects.  Now DeMint announces that he will demand a vote in the Senate on the constitutionality of the insurance mandate contained within ObamaCare — in fact, a key element of the bill.  DeMint has armed himself with a detailed analysis by Heritage that shows Congress’ overreach, but is DeMint shooting at a non-existent target?  Here’s DeMint’s statement:

Today, U.S. Senators Jim DeMint (R-South Carolina) and John Ensign (R-Nevada), raised a Constitutional Point of Order on the Senate floor against the Democrat health care takeover bill on behalf of the Steering Committee, a caucus of conservative senators. The Senate will vote tomorrow on the bill’s constitutionality.

“I am incredibly concerned that the Democrats’ proposed individual mandate provision takes away too much freedom and choice from Americans across the country,” said Senator Ensign. “As an American, I felt the obligation to stand up for the individual freedom of every citizen to make their own decision on this issue. I don’t believe Congress has the legal authority to force this mandate on its citizens.”

“Forcing every American to purchase a product is absolutely inconsistent with our Constitution and the freedoms our Founding Fathers hoped to protect,” said Senator DeMint. “This is not at all like car insurance, you can choose not to drive but Americans will have no choice whether to buy government-approved insurance. This is nothing more than a bailout and takeover of insurance companies. We’re forcing Americans to buy insurance under penalty of law and then Washington bureaucrats will then dictate what these companies can sell to Americans. This is not liberty, it is tyranny of good intentions by elites in Washington who think they can plan our lives better than we can.”

Americans who fail to buy health insurance, according to the Democrats’ bill, would be subject to financial penalties. The senators believe the bill is unconstitutional because the insurance mandate is not authorized by any of the limited enumerated powers granted to the federal government. The individual mandate also likely violates the “takings” clause of the 5th Amendment.

The Democrats’ healthcare reform bill requires Americans to buy health insurance “whether or not they ever visit a doctor, get a prescription or have an operation.” If an American chooses not to buy health insurance coverage, they will face rapidly increasing taxes that will rise to $750 or 2% of their taxable income, whichever is greater.

The Congressional Budget Office once stated “A mandate requiring all individuals to purchase health insurance would be an unprecedented form of federal action. The government has never required people to buy any good or service as a condition of lawful residence in the United States.”

A legal study by scholars at the nonpartisan Heritage Foundation concluded: “An individual mandate to enter into a contract with or buy a particular product from a private party, with tax penalties to enforce it, is unprecedented– not just in scope but in kind–and unconstitutional as a matter of first principles and under any reasonable reading of judicial precedents.”

In fact, Heritage notes that a challenge to the Supreme Court on this point — almost certain to occur quickly — would expose the lack of foundation for Congress’ claim to jurisdiction in this matter.  The Court would have to agree to carve out a mandate from whole cloth, not a terribly likely occurrence with the current justices:

Nowhere in the Constitution is Congress given the power to mandate that an individual enter into a contract with a private party or purchase a good or service and, as this paper will explain, no decision or present doctrine of the Supreme Court justifies such a claim of power. Therefore, because this claim of power by Congress would literally be without precedent, it could only be upheld if the Supreme Court is willing to create a new constitutional doctrine. This memorandum explains why the two powers cited by supporters of this bill–the power of Congress to regulate interstate commerce and the power of Congress to tax–do not justify an individual mandate, even under the most expansive readings given these powers by the Supreme Court. …

The very reason why an unpopular health insurance mandate has been included in these bills shows why, if it is held unconstitutional, the remainder of the scheme will prove politically and economically disastrous. Members need only recall how the Supreme Court’s decision in Buckley v. Valeo–which invalidated caps on campaign spending as unconstitutional, while leaving the rest of the scheme intact–has created 30 plus years of incoherent and pernicious regulations of campaign financing and the need for repeated “reforms.” Only this time, the public is aligned against a scheme that will require repeated unpopular votes, especially to raise taxes to compensate for the absence of the health insurance mandate.

These political considerations are beyond the scope of this paper, and the expertise of its authors. But Senators and Representatives need to know that, despite what they have been told, the health insurance mandate is highly vulnerable to challenge because it is, in truth, unconstitutional. And political considerations aside, each legislator owes a duty to uphold the Constitution.

They also need to explain a portion of the bill found in section 5000 by Michael W at QandO, as well as at Daily Kos.  On page 340, Section 5000A(g)(1) explains how the penalties shall be enforced for those who choose not to comply with the mandate to carry “minimum essential coverage.”  In short — they won’t be enforced at all:

(2) SPECIAL RULES.—Notwithstanding any other provision of law—
‘‘(A) WAIVER OF CRIMINAL PENALTIES.— In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure.
‘‘(B) LIMITATIONS ON LIENS AND LEVIES.—The Secretary shall not—
‘‘(i) file notice of lien with respect to any property of a taxpayer by reason of any failure to pay the penalty imposed by this section, or
‘‘(ii) levy on any such property with respect to such failure.

In other words, this is a voluntary mandate — at least for now.  The IRS can fine you for flouting the minimum-coverage mandate, but if you refuse to pay, they can’t do anything about it.  They can’t fine you, prosecute you, or even put a lien against your earnings or property.  They apparently can still send you angry letters, but they’ll have the same impact as deadlines on the Iranian nuclear-weapons program.

Of course, it may not always remain a voluntary mandate.  What Congress passes today can be modified tomorrow (or perhaps not, considering Reid’s attempt to impose an out-of-order-in-perpetuity sign on the bill).  They can later amend this section to remove this language, unleashing the IRS on the public.  In its present form, however, it doesn’t actually mandate anything, which means that the insurance companies will not get the flood of young, healthy people into its risk pool to subsidize everyone else’s premiums, and that will mean skyrocketing insurance costs thanks to the new must-insure mandates which decidedly do exist in this bill.

Update: Matt Lewis reports that Sens. Lindsey Graham and DeMint have asked the South Carolina Attorney General to investigate Harry Reid’s buyoffs in the ObamaCare bill.  I doubt that much will come of it, but it’s worth watching.

Update II: Apparently I left my irony sliced a little too thin.  There is no such thing as a “voluntary mandate,” of course, which was my point.  If the bill blocks prosecution and fine collection for this mandate, then the mandate doesn’t exist.  And Democrats will absolutely remove this section in a year or two when they can schedule another midnight vote, which will make it a very real mandate then.

Blowback

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I’m not sure they can impose a tax. I had imagined it would be when someone tried to access the benefits.

But apparently, that’s not the case.

AnninCA on December 22, 2009 at 3:01 PM

Here is a question for you. I worked as a paralegal for over eight years, but I have never done the legal research into this question. I know it is extreme, but these are extreme times for our nation and Constitution.

Since the current Congress and administration seem so intent to overrule the U.S. Constitution, what is to keep one or more state legislatures, or courts, from ruling that Obamacare is unconstitutional and void its applicability to their own state(s)? Especially in light of the 10th Amendment, it seems that there is nothing that the federal government could do to force them.

Now I know that they could try to cut money to the state and such, but really, once the snowball starts rolling down hill, what could the federal government really do to stop such a rebellion by the states? If one starts down the path, wouldn’t others follow?

Curious what others think about this idea.

MeAlice on December 22, 2009 at 3:02 PM

I wonder about the Constitutionality of Nelson’s bribe. Article 9 states that:

No Preference shall be given by any Regulation of Commerce or Revenue to the Ports of one State over those of another: nor shall Vessels bound to, or from, one State, be obliged to enter, clear, or pay Duties in another.

So how can Nebraska be exempt from a federal mandate that any other state is obliged to honor? Do our Congress critters think that they can interpret this section as only pertaining to naval commerce or what?

MJBrutus on December 22, 2009 at 3:02 PM

“Are you serious? Are you serious?” This was Pelousi’s answer to this very question of constitutionality.

GnuBreed on December 22, 2009 at 3:02 PM

It is frankly unconstitutional for the Senate to vote on somethings ‘constitutionality’. That is solely the domain of the Supreme Court.
Mr. Bingley on December 22, 2009 at 2:28 PM
The constitution does not provide for any body determining the constitutionality of laws. That power was usurp by SCOTUS via Marbury v. Madison.
I believe the founders thinking was that this form of government they created required moral people to run it. Thus, if those in government are not willing to follow through on their oath, it does not matter which arm of the government determines constitutionality.

WashJeff on December 22, 2009 at 2:38

A point of order on a bill asserting that it is unconstitutional is not unusual, and occasionally will result in the bill being referred back to committee for a fix.

A negative ruling on the point of order can be overturned by a vote of the chamber, here the Senate, but it is not determinative on constitutionality. Only the court ultimately decides that.

TXUS on December 22, 2009 at 3:02 PM

I’m glad to see DeMint doing something, pathetically useless as it may be.

Where the hell was he a couple of months ago when this was being talked about? As of now, I see this as posturing in the face of certain defeat.

MrScribbler on December 22, 2009 at 2:56 PM

It isn’t as though he’s had a lot of support!

Everyone complains that conservative reps aren’t doing enough. How about some credit and support for doing something?

This battle isn’t over.

Cody1991 on December 22, 2009 at 3:02 PM

This will bankrupt all the insurance conmpanies in short order – which I have to conclude is exactly the goal here.

rockmom on December 22, 2009 at 2:58 PM

Yep.

a capella on December 22, 2009 at 3:02 PM

It is frankly unconstitutional for the Senate to vote on somethings ‘constitutionality’. That is solely the domain of the Supreme Court.

Mr. Bingley on December 22, 2009 at 2:28 PM

While congress may “self-check” with a vote on constitutionality and the SCOTUS actually determines consitutionnality, Article III, Section 2 of the Consitution grants congress authority to determine what kinds of cases the Supreme Court may or may not have jurisdiction over. The Congress decides, from the subject-matter specified in Article Three, what jurisdiction the federal courts will have.

Am I way far out here, or could congress strip the SCOTUS of jurisdiction over health care matters?

Trafalgar on December 22, 2009 at 2:45 PM

Hmmm. Not being a lawyer I don’t know if this is ‘settled’ law, but in reading Art.3 sect 2

The judicial power shall extend to all cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution, the laws of the United States, and treaties made, or which shall be made, under their authority;–to all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls;–to all cases of admiralty and maritime jurisdiction;–to controversies to which the United States shall be a party;–to controversies between two or more states;–between a state and citizens of another state;–between citizens of different states;–between citizens of the same state claiming lands under grants of different states, and between a state, or the citizens thereof, and foreign states, citizens or subjects.

In all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, and those in which a state shall be party, the Supreme Court shall have original jurisdiction. In all the other cases before mentioned, the Supreme Court shall have appellate jurisdiction, both as to law and fact, with such exceptions, and under such regulations as the Congress shall make.

the phrase “The judicial power shall extend to all cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution, the laws of the United States, and treaties made, or which shall be made, under their authority” seems pretty clear; all cases is all cases. I think Congress is granted power in certain cases to decide whether the SCOTUS is the original/only court or the final court of appeal. Or am i reading it wrongly? Again, I ain’t a lawyer, so if this has been settled I freely admit ignorance.

Mr. Bingley on December 22, 2009 at 3:03 PM

In all the other Cases before mentioned, the supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact, with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make.”

Fighton03 on December 22, 2009 at 3:00 PM

Bingo. The Court’s appellate review power is a) self-discretionary and, b) subject to Congressional exceptions for any reason.

russcote on December 22, 2009 at 3:04 PM

with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make.”

Fighton03 on December 22, 2009 at 3:00 PM

This clause pertains only the jurisdiction of SCOTUS, whether it is original or appellate. Not to deny the hearing of a case.

BobMbx on December 22, 2009 at 3:05 PM

Again, that’s not true. Judicial review does not preclude Congress from expressly cutting off any appellate review entirely by the Supreme Court. All Marbury says is that if a case gets there, they have the Constitutional right to review it and declare it good or bad.

russcote on December 22, 2009 at 3:00 PM

The very act of cutting off appellate review requires a law be upheld (by guess who) to do the cutting off.

MJBrutus on December 22, 2009 at 3:05 PM

rockmom on December 22, 2009 at 3:01 PM

I agree that is definitely ‘nuclear’ because it would fundamentally change the operation of government without violating the constitution. Currently there is no check to the power of judicial review. Essentially 9 people get to say what is and is not law, often using very specious reasoning. This is a very interesting turn.

Fighton03 on December 22, 2009 at 3:05 PM

Since the current Congress and administration seem so intent to overrule the U.S. Constitution, what is to keep one or more state legislatures, or courts, from ruling that Obamacare is unconstitutional and void its applicability to their own state(s)? Especially in light of the 10th Amendment, it seems that there is nothing that the federal government could do to force them.

MeAlice on December 22, 2009 at 3:02 PM

State nullfication of federal laws is as old as America. Wiki here
Of course, the guys who used it originally were lightweights. Thomas Jefferson and James Madison ;-)

hawksruleva on December 22, 2009 at 3:06 PM

This will bankrupt all the insurance conmpanies in short order – which I have to conclude is exactly the goal here.

rockmom on December 22, 2009 at 2:58 PM

Yep.

a capella on December 22, 2009 at 3:02 PM

There goes the rest of Nebraska’s economy.

OmahaConservative on December 22, 2009 at 3:06 PM

Art. III, sect 2 does not allow Congress to prohibit any case from being heard by SCOTUS. It establishes SCOTUS as an appellate court except:

In all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, and those in which a state shall be party, the Supreme Court shall have original jurisdiction.
Congress has no power to restrict any case from the SCOTUS.

BobMbx on December 22, 2009 at 2:53 PM

What that part of Article III, Section 2 does is give SCOTUS original jurisdiction over those cases. However, it goes on to say: “In all the other Cases before mentioned, the supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact, with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make”.

So congress can in fact make exceptions and regulations concerning SCOTUS jurisdiction.

Trafalgar on December 22, 2009 at 3:06 PM

The mandate is in essence a “capitation or direct tax”, which the Constitution forbids the Congress from levying…

oddball on December 22, 2009 at 3:07 PM

This will bankrupt all the insurance conmpanies in short order – which I have to conclude is exactly the goal here.

rockmom on December 22, 2009 at 2:58 PM

There goes the rest of Nebraska’s economy.

OmahaConservative on December 22, 2009 at 3:06 PM

Tell me something I don’t know.

We’re limping along as it is, our industrial section is a ghost town and general recession malaise is setting in. Cripple the insurance companies and all that’s left is farming, which doesn’t employ too many people, comparatively speaking.

Dark-Star on December 22, 2009 at 3:09 PM

The very act of cutting off appellate review requires a law be upheld (by guess who) to do the cutting off.

MJBrutus on December 22, 2009 at 3:05 PM

Dude, not at all. If there was a provision in any given bill that said “the provisions of this act shall not be reviewable by the Supreme Court“, that’s it. If the case were petitioned for certiorari the SCOTUS would not hear it.

russcote on December 22, 2009 at 3:09 PM

Harkin dismissed deals dubbed vote-buying by GOP senators as “small stuff” that distracted Americans from the primary focus of the overhaul bill.

“We have to keep our eyes on what we’re trying to do here. We’re trying to cross a demarcation line,” Harkin told “Early Show” co-anchor Maggie Rodriguez. “On one side is health care as a privilege, on the other side is health care as a right. With these votes, with the vote that we’ll take before Christmas, we will cross that line finally and say that health care is a right of all Americans.”

OmahaConservative on December 22, 2009 at 3:09 PM

This clause pertains only the jurisdiction of SCOTUS, whether it is original or appellate. Not to deny the hearing of a case.

BobMbx on December 22, 2009 at 3:05 PM

It also allows congress to place “regulations” on how the court operates in those cases.

Fighton03 on December 22, 2009 at 3:09 PM

In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure.

This makes no sense.
If nothing can be done to force compliance, then why even bother writing this in?
Seeing that its the IRS that will enforce it, the IRS, unlike any other entity or business practice, doesn’t need a separate court ordered fine as an enhancement. The immediate and compounding interest is part and parcel of the original violation. It doesn’t have to be separately arrived at or activated. Violations of the IRS code has nothing to do with respect to the original violation.

Just too much damn bullsh!t being shoveled at people to trust “logic as usual”.

Kill this monster.

Itchee Dryback on December 22, 2009 at 3:10 PM

If it goes against them they will just change it from mandate to a tax.
Same thing, different name.

ouldbollix on December 22, 2009 at 2:56 PM

But taxes aren’t allowed to target specific populations. It’d definitely be unconstitutional to levy a $500 tax on anyone who does not have health insurance. My guess is that they’d use the EPA or some other agency to declare the lack of insurance to be a “public health hazard” and levy a fine.

hawksruleva on December 22, 2009 at 2:59 PM

The reasoning would be because they could not force the mandate they had to spread the pain out over all the people and you will see a payroll tax or like Europe a 21% vat on everything you buy.
Hey its for the common good, remember they are only trying to help YOU.

ouldbollix on December 22, 2009 at 3:11 PM

Cripple the insurance companies and all that’s left is farming, which doesn’t employ too many people, comparatively speaking.

Dark-Star on December 22, 2009 at 3:09 PM

We are soooooo screwed if this monstrosity passes.

OmahaConservative on December 22, 2009 at 3:12 PM

In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure.
This makes no sense.
If nothing can be done to force compliance, then why even bother writing this in?
Seeing that its the IRS that will enforce it, the IRS, unlike any other entity or business practice, doesn’t need a separate court ordered fine as an enhancement. The immediate and compounding interest is part and parcel of the original violation. It doesn’t have to be separately arrived at or activated. Violations of the IRS code has nothing to do with respect to the original violation.

Just too much damn bullsh!t being shoveled at people to trust “logic as usual”.

Kill this monster.

Itchee Dryback on December 22, 2009 at 3:10 PM

–It won’t be this penalty that gets you in trouble. It will be the other civil tax penalties that flow from your violation of this one that get you in trouble. And they can still take your property if you trigger those penalites.

Jimbo3 on December 22, 2009 at 3:12 PM

So congress can in fact make exceptions and regulations concerning SCOTUS jurisdiction.

Trafalgar on December 22, 2009 at 3:06 PM

I defy you to find a law that is not reviewable (lawfully restricted from SCOTUS).

It is not logical to give the legislature the power deny access to the courts whenever they feel like it. If so, could a GOP majority sign into law the abolition of abortion, and then exclude the SCOTUS from jurisdiction by exercising such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make”?

Could a liberal majority do the opposite? Abortion as a legal right, unreviewable by SCOTUS?

BobMbx on December 22, 2009 at 3:13 PM

OT

Look at Ben Nelson on MM’s site.

Ed, can you please put the picture up on HotAir’s site for us Nebraskans???

yoda on December 22, 2009 at 3:14 PM

Heritage notes that a challenge to the Supreme Court on this point — almost certain to occur quickly — would expose the lack of foundation for Congress’ claim to jurisdiction in this matter.

Hallelujah!

Short list for 2012: DeMint, Palin, Bachmann…

petefrt on December 22, 2009 at 3:14 PM

So congress can in fact make exceptions and regulations concerning SCOTUS jurisdiction.

Trafalgar on December 22, 2009 at 3:06 PM

My take is that congress could give instruction to the court in matters of law the way a judge can to a jury.

Fighton03 on December 22, 2009 at 3:14 PM

We are soooooo screwed if this monstrosity passes.

OmahaConservative on December 22, 2009 at 3:12 PM

Lately I’ve been making plans to go see my childhood neighborhood and the private Christian school I used to go to (closed years ago for want of income) – partly out of nostalgia, but also partly because I have a creeping feeling that if/when this passes I may have to leave my homecity forever in search of employment.

Dark-Star on December 22, 2009 at 3:15 PM

If the judicial committee says the bill is ok, then it must be ok.

After all, Franken is on that committee.

ConservativeTony on December 22, 2009 at 3:16 PM

OT

Look at Ben Nelson on MM’s site.

Ed, can you please put the picture up on HotAir’s site for us Nebraskans???

yoda on December 22, 2009 at 3:14 PM

Oh, that is just perfect.

OmahaConservative on December 22, 2009 at 3:16 PM

You know who would have loved this bill, Andrew Jackson, founder of the modern Democrtic party. /sarc

WashJeff on December 22, 2009 at 3:16 PM

Dude, not at all. If there was a provision in any given bill that said “the provisions of this act shall not be reviewable by the Supreme Court“, that’s it. If the case were petitioned for certiorari the SCOTUS would not hear it.

russcote on December 22, 2009 at 3:09 PM

In the Madison decision, the ruling says:

If congress remains at liberty to give this court appellate jurisdiction, where the constitution has declared their jurisdiction shall be original; and original jurisdiction where the constitution has declared it shall be appellate; the distribution of jurisdiction made in the constitution, is form without substance.

Is this not the situation we’re discussing? Essentially we’re talking about Congress attempting to deny judicial review to the SCOTUS by passing a law that says so.

I’m enjoying the debate, BTW :-)

MJBrutus on December 22, 2009 at 3:17 PM

Dark-Star on December 22, 2009 at 3:15 PM

I attended Lutheran Christian Day Scool.
What denom was yours?

OmahaConservative on December 22, 2009 at 3:17 PM

Lutheran Christian Day Scool School.

Dang.

OmahaConservative on December 22, 2009 at 3:18 PM

Constitution?! We don’t no steen-keeng Constitution. And…. My Death panels KEEEEL you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

J.J. Sefton on December 22, 2009 at 3:18 PM

I defy you to find a law that is not reviewable (lawfully restricted from SCOTUS).

It is not logical to give the legislature the power deny access to the courts whenever they feel like it. If so, could a GOP majority sign into law the abolition of abortion, and then exclude the SCOTUS from jurisdiction by exercising such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make”?

Could a liberal majority do the opposite? Abortion as a legal right, unreviewable by SCOTUS?

BobMbx on December 22, 2009 at 3:13 PM

Read ex parte McCardle.

There are several ways to get to the Supreme Court beyond direct appeal. But it is absolutely settled law the Congress has the Constitutional right to determine the scope of SCOTUS’ appellate review jurisdiction.

russcote on December 22, 2009 at 3:18 PM

So there I was….stirring my fudge, and thinking. And it crossed my mind. Now, so many here are far more learned than I am in politics, so any, and all opinions will be appreciated.

Here goes. Is it possible that a lot of the dems know this is a bad, bad Bad, BAD bill. Even Reid. Is it possible these things are being thrown in. Thee most absurd things, like earmarks, and unconstitutional mandates, etc…in the hopes that a few, or more will just say…. we cannot vote for this…and it saves face for them all? Just a thought. It’s way out there, I know. Just wanted to get feed back on it.

capejasmine on December 22, 2009 at 3:19 PM

I defy you to find a law that is not reviewable (lawfully restricted from SCOTUS).

BobMbx on December 22, 2009 at 3:13 PM

Ex Parte McCardle: 1868

Trafalgar on December 22, 2009 at 3:20 PM

This battle isn’t over.

Cody1991 on December 22, 2009 at 3:02 PM

Like the Revolutionary War, it’s only over when we stop fighting, or the other side gives up and goes home to leave us in peace.

It’s worth looking at the underlying causes of our War of Independence. Why did Americans fight to be free from a strong nation like Great Britain? Excessive taxation. Politicians who were not responsive to local needs. A strong central government that ruled arbitrarily, or worse, in its own interests. Sound familiar?

hawksruleva on December 22, 2009 at 3:21 PM

The US congress can not knowingly pass a law that violates the US Constitution, it is against their oath of office. Basically what Mr. DeMint is doing here is forcing them to justify the constitutional basis of the bill.

It will also provide the basis for later lawsuits that can be used not only in fighting the constitutionality of this case at the SCotUS level, but also for ethics violations for those who pass this legislation for violation of their oaths of office.

Also remember that Judicial Review is only valid on laws that have been passed, not laws that are in debate. The Senate does have the responsiblity to do their best to ensure that any law passed is in fact constitutional. Judicial Review is there to catch those that slip through the cracks.

TKSnider on December 22, 2009 at 3:22 PM

Rumors are that several Attorneys General across the country may form an alliance to look into the constitutionality of Ben Nelson’s deal, the mandate and other nasties in the bill.

racecar05 on December 22, 2009 at 3:22 PM

Could a liberal majority do the opposite? Abortion as a legal right, unreviewable by SCOTUS?

BobMbx on December 22, 2009 at 3:13 PM

Per this clause it would appear that congress may make exceptions to the courts jurisdiction in both law and fact.

Fighton03 on December 22, 2009 at 3:22 PM

russcote on December 22, 2009 at 3:18 PM

Well, I’m getting better, only beat me by two minutes!!

Trafalgar on December 22, 2009 at 3:23 PM

Is this not the situation we’re discussing? Essentially we’re talking about Congress attempting to deny judicial review to the SCOTUS by passing a law that says so.

I’m enjoying the debate, BTW :-)

MJBrutus on December 22, 2009 at 3:17 PM

I am too.

No it’s not this situation. Marbury involved an instance of Original jurisdiction. That’s what Marshall is saying. Congress can’t screw with what is and isn’t ‘original’ vs. ‘appellate’ because that’s determined by the Constitution.

But where cases are Constitutionally defined as ‘appellate’, the operative clause give Congress the sole right to determine the scope of that review power.

It would depend greatly on how a given case challenging the Constitutionality of the mandate got to the SCOTUS. If someone was in jail because of it, they could use habeus corpus. If a State challenged it, it would be original. If someone else challenged it, it might be appellate.

That’s the point. There are many roads to SCOTUS, but the appellate route is expressly within the power of the Congress to decide and dictate in any case.

russcote on December 22, 2009 at 3:23 PM

OT

Look at Ben Nelson on MM’s site.

Ed, can you please put the picture up on HotAir’s site for us Nebraskans???

yoda on December 22, 2009 at 3:14 PM

Photoshop Challenge: Jokerize all 60 Democrats in the Senate

OmahaConservative on December 22, 2009 at 3:23 PM

Cody, 3:02,

And let’s not forget that Snowe and Collins allowed this monstrosity to proceed in the first round of voting.

If they had stuck to their guns the bill would have been stopped in its tracks.

All 9 of the Dims who are, no doubt, going to be allowed to vote no for this if it goes to reconciliation should be tarred and feathered along with Snowe and Collins. They’re all FOS and have sold the rest of the country down the river.

wyntre on December 22, 2009 at 3:24 PM

Here goes. Is it possible that a lot of the dems know this is a bad, bad Bad, BAD bill. Even Reid. Is it possible these things are being thrown in. Thee most absurd things, like earmarks, and unconstitutional mandates, etc…in the hopes that a few, or more will just say…. we cannot vote for this…and it saves face for them all? Just a thought. It’s way out there, I know. Just wanted to get feed back on it.

capejasmine on December 22, 2009 at 3:19 PM

I wish. But any single Dem senator could have blocked passage on the cloture vote.

hawksruleva on December 22, 2009 at 3:25 PM

I attended Lutheran Christian Day Scool.
What denom was yours?

OmahaConservative on December 22, 2009 at 3:17 PM

Lutheran. I’ll look it up on Google maps if you’d like.

Dark-Star on December 22, 2009 at 3:26 PM

There are several ways to get to the Supreme Court beyond direct appeal. But it is absolutely settled law the Congress has the Constitutional right to determine the scope of SCOTUS’ appellate review jurisdiction.

russcote on December 22, 2009 at 3:18 PM

I believe that your statement is only true in cases where the Congress’ law does not violate the Constitution. Following up on the court’s words I quoted earlier, what is to prevent Congress from enacting a law to quarter soldiers in your home if that law states that their law may not be appealed? Is the right to live without being taxed for the privilege (as is currently being debated in Congress) any different? What protections do we have for any of our rights in such a system?

MJBrutus on December 22, 2009 at 3:26 PM

You know who would have loved this bill, Andrew Jackson, founder of the modern Democrtic party. /sarc

WashJeff on December 22, 2009 at 3:16 PM

Who would’ve really, really, loved it? I’d say Woodrow Wilson, Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, and LBJ.

TXUS on December 22, 2009 at 3:28 PM

Lutheran. I’ll look it up on Google maps if you’d like.

Dark-Star on December 22, 2009 at 3:26 PM

Did you grow up in Omaha?

OmahaConservative on December 22, 2009 at 3:28 PM

Genius.

Any Senator who didn’t get a fat handout from Searchlight Harry now has an opportunity to take another whack at the Fed money pinata.

“Sure, I voted for cloture, but I think I may think it’s unconstitutional. Could you help me here, Harry?”

So. How much is “too much” ?

Mew

acat on December 22, 2009 at 3:29 PM

If the bill blocks prosecution and fine collection for this mandate, then the mandate doesn’t exist.

This may be said somewhere else in the comments, but merely not effectively having to pay a fine does not mean one has not been effectively convicted of a violation of the law–and there are things that will effect. Background investigations, employment applications, security clearances, etc.

The law can be enforced softly without ever enforcing it harshly.

Horatius on December 22, 2009 at 3:31 PM

In 2006, long before there was an Obama administration determined to impose a command-and-control federal health-care system, a young orthopedic surgeon walked into the Goldwater Institute here with an idea. The institute, America’s most potent advocate of limited government, embraced Eric Novack’s idea for protecting Arizonans from health-care coercion. In 2008, Arizonans voted on Novack’s proposed amendment to the state’s Constitution:

“No law shall be passed that restricts a person’s freedom of choice of private health care systems or private plans of any type. No law shall interfere with a person’s or entity’s right to pay directly for lawful medical services, nor shall any law impose a penalty or fine, of any type, for choosing to obtain or decline health care coverage or for participation in any particular health care system or plan.”

Proponents were outspent five to one by opponents who argued, meretriciously, that it would destroy Arizona’s Medicaid program, with which many insurance companies have lucrative contracts. Nevertheless, the proposition lost by only 8,687 votes out of 2.1 million cast, and Arizonans will vote on essentially the same language next November.

But does not federal law trump state laws? Not necessarily. Clint Bolick, a Goldwater Institute attorney, says, “It is a bedrock principle of constitutional law that the federal Constitution established a floor for the protection of individual liberties; state constitutions may provide additional protections.”

George Will, 11/18/09.

This will be on the ballot next fall. Any state whose constitution can be amended by referendum, without having to go through the state legislature first, should consider gathering signatures now.

A federal law can pre-empt a state law. Whether a federal law can pre-empt a state constitution is another matter.

Wethal on December 22, 2009 at 3:31 PM

russcote:

To go further with the M v M decision, the court stated:

The question, whether an act, repugnant to the constitution, can become the law of the land, is a question deeply interesting to the United States; but, happily, not of an intricacy proportioned to its interest. It seems only necessary to recognise certain principles, supposed to have been long and well established, to decide it.

That the people have an original right to establish, for their future government, such principles as, in their opinion, shall most conduce to their own happiness, is the basis on which the whole American fabric has been erected. The exercise of this original right is a very great exertion; nor can it nor ought it to be frequently repeated. The principles, therefore, so established are deemed fundamental. And as the authority, from which they proceed, is supreme, and can seldom act, they are designed to be permanent.

This original and supreme will organizes the government, and assigns to different departments their respective powers. It may either stop here; or establish certain limits not to be transcended by those departments.

The government of the United States is of the latter description. The powers of the legislature are defined and limited; and that those limits may not be mistaken or forgotten, the constitution is written. To what purpose are powers limited, and to what purpose is that limitation committed to writing; if these limits may, at any time, be passed by those intended to be restrained? The distinction between a government with limited and unlimited powers is abolished, if those limits do not confine the persons on whom they are imposed, and if acts pro- [5 U.S. 137, 177] hibited and acts allowed are of equal obligation. It is a proposition too plain to be contested, that the constitution controls any legislative act repugnant to it; or, that the legislature may alter the constitution by an ordinary act.

Between these alternatives there is no middle ground. The constitution is either a superior, paramount law, unchangeable by ordinary means, or it is on a level with ordinary legislative acts, and like other acts, is alterable when the legislature shall please to alter it.

The presumption that I am making is that a sufficiently strong case can be made that requiring citizens to purchase health insurance under the bill under consideration is in conflict with out individual rights to warrant the a SCOTUS hearing.

MJBrutus on December 22, 2009 at 3:32 PM

Is DeMint usurping the power of Judicial Branch by pre-supposing the Senate decides what is and what is not Constitutional?

BobMbx on December 22, 2009 at 2:47 PM

No, I think what he’s doing is forcing senators to go on record with what they think of the Constitution and their power to over-ride it..
Trafalgar on December 22, 2009 at 2:50 PM

Works for me. Let the Senate openly declare that this tyranny is constitutional. It will be a valuable moment of education for the rest of us.

Aitch748 on December 22, 2009 at 3:33 PM

…what could the federal government really do to stop such a rebellion by the states? If one starts down the path, wouldn’t others follow?

Curious what others think about this idea.

MeAlice on December 22, 2009 at 3:02 PM

My take? I’m moving to OK if Zero signs this “law.”

I will do everything I can to support any state in such a rebellion, so I sure as heck don’t want to be stuck in any blue-state purple-pansy hellhole when it’s time to fight.

Maquis on December 22, 2009 at 3:35 PM

So basically, instead of driving more people into the health insurance market, they will be driving people like us — many of whom have coverage but can ill afford to pay 2, 3, 4 times as much in premiums — out of the market. Only the federal government could set out to do one thing and end up doing exactly the opposite.

Of course, this will scare some frightened souls into the government’s waiting arms should a public option end up in the final bill and once that starts happening, single payer is not far behind. Personally, I refuse to participate. I will just go without and sign up for it when I need it.

NoLeftTurn on December 22, 2009 at 3:36 PM

Wethal,

In this case, since there is nothing in the US constitution that is contrary to the state constitution and there is no article or amendment in the constitution that forces federal laws to trump state constitutions, I think it should hold up.

TKSnider on December 22, 2009 at 3:38 PM

what is to prevent Congress from enacting a law to quarter soldiers in your home if that law states that their law may not be appealed? Is the right to live without being taxed for the privilege (as is currently being debated in Congress) any different? What protections do we have for any of our rights in such a system?

MJBrutus on December 22, 2009 at 3:26 PM

To be honest with you, I think a case involving quartering soldiers could be original, thus not alterable by Congress, because presumably the Defendant would be a “public minister or a State”. So it wouldn’t matter for appellate purposes even if they did.

And, again, if someone defied the law and was jailed for it, they could petition on a writ of habeus corpus, thus another direct route to SCOTUS that I don’t think is similarly alterable by Congress.

Of course, the most direct answer to your question “What protections do we have for any of our rights in such a system“, is the 2nd Amendment.

russcote on December 22, 2009 at 3:38 PM

We’re limping along as it is, our industrial section is a ghost town and general recession malaise is setting in. Cripple the insurance companies and all that’s left is farming, which doesn’t employ too many people, comparatively speaking.

Dark-Star on December 22, 2009 at 3:09 PM

au contrair, dark-star….soon you’ll ALL be farming..if you want to eat, that is. Maybe it’s a scheme to ruralize America, eh?

gordo on December 22, 2009 at 3:39 PM

I’m moving to OK if Zero signs this “law.”

D’oh! I am moving to OK, regardless of the initial fate of this bill, but I will regard signing this bill as an act of war, and respond accordingly, and I plan to have like-minded neighbors.

Maquis on December 22, 2009 at 3:39 PM

Thems the pee’urs. Us’ins is the pee’ons.

Next thread please.

PappyD61 on December 22, 2009 at 3:41 PM

What are the skeletons in DeMint’s closet? Every time I hear about him, he seems to be standing up for conservatism and doing the right things. But nobody ever talks about him as a candidate for President. Why not?

hawksruleva on December 22, 2009 at 2:30 PM

Probably because most people like to nominate someone with executive experience, not legislative, which is why we like our Governors. I like DeMint a lot and would love to see him as Senate Majority Leader.

yogi41 on December 22, 2009 at 3:41 PM

The IRS can fine you for flouting the minimum-coverage mandate, but if you refuse to pay, they can’t do anything about it. They can’t fine you, prosecute you, or even put a lien against your earnings or property. They apparently can still send you angry letters, but they’ll have the same impact as deadlines on the Iranian nuclear-weapons program.

Maybe this is something to block the action of the Supreme Court. If there is no mandate, maybe it’s Constitutional for now. Then later, they threaten to yank out this text. What would happen then?

gordo on December 22, 2009 at 3:41 PM

au contrair, dark-star….soon you’ll ALL be farming..if you want to eat, that is. Maybe it’s a scheme to ruralize America, eh?

gordo on December 22, 2009 at 3:39 PM

The Zero Administration early on passed a farm law that could all but ban private gardens. I know, insane and improbable, but look who’s running the show these days.

Maquis on December 22, 2009 at 3:44 PM

Of course, the most direct answer to your question “What protections do we have for any of our rights in such a system“, is the 2nd Amendment.

russcote on December 22, 2009 at 3:38 PM

LOL! While that may be the ultimate protection from tyranny, I am hopeful that our Constitution will provide the remedies needed to preserve our rights with less drastic measures :-) As I see it, in large part due to the M v M decision, it does. I don’t see imprisonment without habeus corpus as having any more or less standing than a violation of the 5th’s takings clause does. Perhaps I’m wrong there.

MJBrutus on December 22, 2009 at 3:44 PM

The real question is will the SC consider this a tax or not. The One has already said, over and over, the mandate is not a tax. If the court takes him at his word, then the mandate will be struck down. There is no way to construe the commerce clause can be invoked since their is no ‘opt out’ feature that previous CC cases have included. If the participant doesn’t have the choice to not participate in the market, it’s uncostitutional to mandate them to participte in the market.

Unless you call it a tax. They have unlimited power to tax. But President Law Professor says the mandate is most certainly not a tax. He has said this from the highest mountian top, in his speeches, in debates and on the floor of the US Senate. Hard to take those words back.

Delicious Irony Exit Question: How much egg will President Law Professor have on his kisser when the Supremes use his own language as their basis for not invoking the Commerce Clause, and thus rule Obamacare unconstitutional?

DrW on December 22, 2009 at 3:45 PM

When challenging a law as unconstitutional, it’s helpful to have had its unconstitutionality challenged on the legislative record prior to its passage, even though the argument was lost.

Sometimes it’s persuasive that a warning was provided early on.

TXUS on December 22, 2009 at 2:49 PM

Precisely. Then, when it’s overturned by the SCOTUS, we can run campaign commercials against those in the Senate erroneously voting against the SCOTUS decision. I can imagine it being a music video set to the Styx song appropriate called “Borrowed Time”, (the part with the “Yes”, “No” voices), with the the vermin’s faces flashing on the screen during the “Yes”, and the SCOTUS appearing saying “No”, and back and forth, like it’s a running argument.

Borrowed Time (relevant part at about 1:50)

(I couldn’t find a better copy. The studio version is better.)

The “living high—on borrowed time” chorus would flash between Reid, Pelosi and Obama, and the “Yes”—”No” could be extended and flash between all of the other traitors to the Constitution.

FloatingRock on December 22, 2009 at 3:45 PM

–It won’t be this penalty that gets you in trouble. It will be the other civil tax penalties that flow from your violation of this one that get you in trouble. And they can still take your property if you trigger those penalites.

Jimbo3 on December 22, 2009 at 3:12 PM

If I’m understanding you correctly, that was my point also. To imply that there will be no penalties and therefore you are not mandated..or forced..to comply is just a dodge and deceptive word play imo.

Itchee Dryback on December 22, 2009 at 3:46 PM

The enforcement component of the mandate will not fall under the command of the IRS. That will be carried out by Americorps the Civilian National Security Force
Joe Caps on December 22, 2009 at 2:38 PM

Oh come now, let’s call it by its proper name . . . “Gestapo”.
rplat on December 22, 2009 at 2:39 PM

Like ObaMao’s role model?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091221/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_venezuela_police

onlineanalyst on December 22, 2009 at 3:48 PM

There is no way to construe the commerce clause can be invoked since their is no ‘opt out’ feature that previous CC cases have included.

DrW on December 22, 2009 at 3:45 PM

The commerce clause deals with business, not individuals. It shouldn’t apply at all.

Itchee Dryback on December 22, 2009 at 3:51 PM

Who would’ve really, really, loved it? I’d say Woodrow Wilson, Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, and LBJ.

TXUS on December 22, 2009 at 3:28 PM

Probably Nixon too.

Teddy is one of the Presidents that the more you read about, the more you find to dislike.

WashJeff on December 22, 2009 at 3:57 PM

I believe that the bill is unconstitutional. I also believe that Reid and other members who wrote the bill and members that received the special incentives for their state to vote for the bill, should be impeached for Bribery.

At the federal level, Article Two of the United States Constitution (Section 4) states that “The President, Vice President, and all other civil Officers of the United States shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other High Crimes and Misdemeanors.” The House of Representatives has the sole power of impeaching, while the United States Senate has the sole power to try all impeachments. The removal of impeached officials is automatic upon conviction in the Senate.

derft on December 22, 2009 at 4:03 PM

–It won’t be this penalty that gets you in trouble. It will be the other civil tax penalties that flow from your violation of this one that get you in trouble. And they can still take your property if you trigger those penalites.

Jimbo3 on December 22, 2009 at 3:12 PM

If they get away with this now, they can add liens and so on to collect the fines later retroactively. It won’t be ex post facto because the fines were already imposed.

pedestrian on December 22, 2009 at 4:08 PM

If the Democrats vote to betray the Constitution and pass this travesty of a bill, the SCOTUS will need to rule before the next election, IMO, to comply with the spirit of the law. Justice delayed is justice denied, as the saying goes, and if they rule after the coming elections it will be too late to punish those responsible when we vote.

Not that many of us need a SCOTUS ruling, but for others it may make a difference.

FloatingRock on December 22, 2009 at 4:09 PM

I believe that the bill is unconstitutional. I also believe that Reid and other members who wrote the bill and members that received the special incentives for their state to vote for the bill, should be impeached for Bribery.
derft on December 22, 2009 at 4:03 PM

Derft – I just posted elsewhere about this, sorry for the duplicat post.

Giving preferences to one State over another has been around a long time. In the Emancipation Proclaimation specific States and even specific counties or parishes ere exempt from having the slaves set free.

Arkansas, Texas, Louisiana (except the parishes of St. Bernard, Palquemines, Jefferson, St. John, St. Charles, St. James, Ascension, Assumption, Terrebone, Lafourche, St. Mary, St. Martin, and Orleans, including the city of New Orleans), Mississippi, Alabama, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, and Virginia (except the forty-eight counties designated as West Virginia, and also the counties of Berkeley, Accomac, Morthhampton, Elizabeth City, York, Princess Anne, and Norfolk, including the cities of Norfolk and Portsmouth), and which excepted parts are for the present left precisely as if this proclamation were not issued.

barnone on December 22, 2009 at 4:09 PM

And the Heritage Foundation isn’t really non-partisan.

Jimbo3 on December 22, 2009 at 2:50 PM

THF is partisan, if you will, on behalf of the Constitution.

onlineanalyst on December 22, 2009 at 4:10 PM

MJBrutus on December 22, 2009 at 3:44 PM

No I think it does too. I was just correcting the erroneous suggestion that Congress has no right to circumvent the SCOTUS’ appellate jurisdiction. They most certainly do and that much is as close to settled law as you can find.

russcote on December 22, 2009 at 4:15 PM

I also believe that Reid and other members who wrote the bill and members that received the special incentives for their state to vote for the bill, should be impeached for Bribery.
derft on December 22, 2009 at 4:03 PM

I would love to see that happen.

russcote on December 22, 2009 at 4:17 PM

No Money down!!

Special Zero Percent Financing!

No Payments or Interest for 12 Months!!

But, in 12 months, we’re gonna get what’s due.

And, we’re keeping score, brother.

BacaDog on December 22, 2009 at 4:26 PM

barnone on December 22, 2009 at 4:09 PM

Point taken. However, I don’t think Mr. Lincoln was bribed for that decision. I would also like to think that with the knowledge we have today a President would not make the same exceptions.

derft on December 22, 2009 at 4:27 PM

The Zero Administration early on passed a farm law that could all but ban private gardens. I know, insane and improbable, but look who’s running the show these days.

Maquis on December 22, 2009 at 3:44 PM

insane and improbable, followed by inane, ridiculous, lame-brained, and breathtakingly stupid. Yep, that’s the O-Boys in a nutshell, Nancy, Harry, and Barack: The Three Stooges personified.

gordo on December 22, 2009 at 4:29 PM

Get ready for the next pernicious charge–a reading pending congressional legislation tax.

Dr. Charles G. Waugh on December 22, 2009 at 4:30 PM

Just recall ObaMao’s words in his radio interview that the Constitution is “flawed” because it only says what the government cannot do. His “transformative” ideology claims that the Constitution should provide for what the government can do.

Sen.DeMint is wise to get the Senate on record.

onlineanalyst on December 22, 2009 at 4:30 PM

I still maintain that the strongest case to be made that the bill is unconstitutional is on privacy grounds.

Whatever someone decides to argue in a challenge, the fate of this country rests in the hands of one man: Anthony Kennedy. The Court is as partisan as any other branch of government. We know how the other eight will vote. I just hope our guys are taking their meds and eating their three squares and otherwise doing what they can to stay healthy. Sleeping with one eye open would probably help too.

NoLeftTurn on December 22, 2009 at 4:30 PM

This will remain strictly as voluntary as the payment of income taxes, I’m sure.

aic4ever on December 22, 2009 at 4:39 PM

This will remain strictly as voluntary as the payment of income taxes, I’m sure.

aic4ever on December 22, 2009 at 4:39 PM

Heh.

But seriously, can anyone answer me on how the Senate and House bills can be reconciled when the House bill’s mandate is not voluntary? It either is or it isn’t. Any wisdom on which one will win out and why?

russcote on December 22, 2009 at 4:41 PM

Should the mandate be found unconstitutional, I fear the Libs would just invoke a $750 tax on everyone and then allow a refundable tax credit for the same amount if you can certify that you have insurance.

Same outcome and probably constitutional.

BierManVA on December 22, 2009 at 4:42 PM

Update: Matt Lewis reports that Sens. Lindsey Graham and DeMint have asked the South Carolina Attorney General to investigate Harry Reid’s buyoffs in the ObamaCare bill. I doubt that much will come of it, but it’s worth watching

.

Two Tennessee Republican legislators have asked the TN state atty to see if we can opt out of the health care bill- they say the mandate will cost the state of TN $1.4 Billion in unfunded Medicaid. (tennessean.com)

TN Mom on December 22, 2009 at 4:51 PM

barnone on December 22, 2009 at 4:09 PM

That was for the time being. Lincoln intended to win the war. The question of a right to own slavery was over once the Union armies finished their work.

awksruleva on December 22, 2009 at 3:06 PM

There is no way Madison thought there was a constitutional right to nullification. There is a natural right to defend your lives and liberty. He made this clear before he died.

AshleyTKing on December 22, 2009 at 4:53 PM

Curious what others think about this idea.

MeAlice on December 22, 2009 at 3:02 PM

That’s the whole reason for being for this website/movement: Tenth Amendment Center. Sign up. Join the Second Revolution.

JDPerren on December 22, 2009 at 5:01 PM

AP, somebody, seriously, tell me how this jibes with the House’s version, which is most certainly a mandate in the truest sense of the word. Do it or go to jail.

russcote on December 22, 2009 at 5:02 PM

Pelosi was adamant about her mandate when she passed their version of Crapcare. Is everyone but me just assuming she’s gonna roll over and let this toothless alternative take hold?

I sure as hell don’t.

russcote on December 22, 2009 at 5:03 PM

whaaaaat? But all the wingnuts here told me they’d be thrown in jail if I didn’t comply!!1!

You mean they were lying???

My world is crashing down around me…

crr6 on December 22, 2009 at 5:16 PM

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