The $1.2 billion cloture vote in the dead of night

posted at 8:48 am on December 21, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

Harry Reid passed his cloture bill a few hours ago, forcing the Senate to remain in session while America slept in order to meet an arbitrary deadline for his version of ObamaCare.  As expected after the reversal of Ben Nelson (D-NE), Reid got his bill past its second procedural hurdle, thanks to some arm-twisting … and vote buying:

Landmark health care legislation backed by President Barack Obama passed its sternest Senate test in the pre-dawn hours early Monday, overcoming Republican delaying tactics on a 60-40 vote that all but assures its passage by Christmas. …

The atmosphere was intensely partisan, but the outcome preordained as senators cast their votes from their desks, a practice reserved for issues of particular importance. Administration officials who have worked intensely on the issue watched from the visitor’s gallery despite the hour. So, too, Vicki Kennedy, the widow of Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass., who championed health care across a Senate career that spanned more than 40 years.

Nebraska Sen. Ben Nelson’s announcement Saturday that he had decided to support the bill—in exchange for a variety of concessions—cemented the Democrats’ 60-vote majority behind a bill assembled at the direction of Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada.

A “varity of concessions”?  There really was no variety in the concessions at all.  Nelson changed his vote when Reid offered new language in his manager’s amendment that would send a boatload of money to Nebraska — and not just to the Cornhusker state, either:

Nebraska will receive $100 million in assistance for its state Medicaid program under provisions in the Senate’s healthcare reform bill negotiated by Sen. Ben Nelson (D).

The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) informed lawmakers on Sunday night that the section of the manager’s amendment to the Senate’s health bill would cost $1.2 billion over 10 years.

Nelson managed to win a share of the section of the manager’s amendment on Equitable Support for Certain States, which will provide Nebraska, along with Massachusetts and Vermont, support in paying its share of additional costs to Medicaid in the health legislation.

Massachusetts?  Why would Massachusetts need extra help in paying its Medicaid obligations?  They already have a version of ObamaCare in place, which was supposed to contain and control health-care costs.  Apparently, it didn’t work as advertised — and neither will Reid’s version of ObamaCare either.

When that fails, who will bail out ObamaCare, as Massachusetts needs a bailout now?  Oh, right.  Us.


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MikeA on December 21, 2009 at 9:23 AM

Wethal on December 21, 2009 at 9:26 AM

I think the chances of Pelosi holding both her Marxists and the supposed Bluedogs together are low if they have to vote on the Senate bill, the House is where our best chance of flipping a few of them will come from.

elduende on December 21, 2009 at 9:30 AM

Caller on Glen Beck,just mentioned that adding all the
stimulus and UN loans,Omni bills,adds up to over 7.5
Trillion,and not the Lefty talk`n point 1 trillion,on
the deficit!!

canopfor on December 21, 2009 at 9:31 AM

This is where I start adjusting my official income to be lower than whatever level the feds are going to tax heavily to pay for their scheme.

The amount of money coming in won’t change, not a penny; I’m used to working for cash or trade when necessary and will do so more now. My regulars will be just as happy to do the same.

Bishop on December 21, 2009 at 9:32 AM

Every freedom loving, productive citizen in this country should be mad as hell. Your fascist like liberal government has just turned your proud Republic into a Marxist/socialist state. One can only wonder about the intellect, character and values of a gaggle of politicians that march in lock step to the cadence of that idiot Reid.

rplat on December 21, 2009 at 9:32 AM

Ya know, I was really angry about this last night but by the time I went to bed I was smiling.

Not only is this going to be Barack Obama’s “Mission Accomplished” momet that will pay endless dividend for Republicans at election time, but the Democrats forgot about one pretty important thing in this legislation.

Capitalism and the free market.

There are all sorts of ways for capitalists and entrepreneurs to start new kinds of health care businesses to help people avoid participating in the abominable new ObamaCare system. The Senate bill neglected to outlaw private medical practice, so there will be plenty of good doctors and citizens forming their own hgealth care cooperatives. There are ways to pay for health care that are NOT insurance and therefore will not be subject to the endless mandates and regulations this legislation will enact.

My advice to conservatives is to get busy and start some businesses here. Making money and screwing the government will be the best revenge of all.

rockmom on December 21, 2009 at 9:33 AM

ohiobabe on December 21, 2009 at 9:24 AM

Oh my! Can you tell me what, exactly, has convinced you that it makes sense to place your faith, and your future, in the existing political process?

MikeA on December 21, 2009 at 9:33 AM

Next up – amnesty that will stack millions of new votes for the Dems to ensure they don’t get voted out in ’10 and ’12.

Midas on December 21, 2009 at 9:34 AM

The sorry a$$ turds are saying what a wonderful gift they have given America. I can’t take it.

mobydutch on December 21, 2009 at 9:34 AM

On what imaginary page is coverage for illegals buried? Oh, and WHERE IS THE BILL!?!?!?!

SouthernGent on December 21, 2009 at 9:35 AM

I can hardly wait for 2010.

Oink on December 21, 2009 at 9:23 AM

The true GOP believers will get on my case for this but:
Snowe started this whole ball rolling with her ‘historic’ vote to allow debate to go forward. McConnell is either incompetent, or incredibly shrewd. McConnell could have done more to stop this thing:

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2009/12/19/the-mcconnell-obstruction-record-on-big-ticket-items/

I’m so frustrated, I’m beginning to think all the GOP cares about is harnessing voter anger to win back power in 2010 and 2012. We’ll get screwed again when they fail to repeal this crap.

Firefly_76 on December 21, 2009 at 9:35 AM

Suppose a miracle happens and next year the GOP has 60 seats. Do you think they will vote to overturn this monstrosity? Hell no.

So all this talk of “libs own it” is moot. This is the end of the country as we know it. The US is now just another Western European socialist democracy where the govt controls every aspect of our lives.

angryed on December 21, 2009 at 9:35 AM

Every freedom loving, productive citizen in this country should be mad as hell. Your fascist like liberal government has just turned your proud Republic into a Marxist/socialist state. One can only wonder about the intellect, character and values of a gaggle of politicians that march in lock step to the cadence of that idiot Reid.

rplat on December 21, 2009 at 9:32 AM

Choose not to participate. Stay healthy. Find a doctor that won’t participate in this madness and pay him/her out of your own pocket. Refuse to pay the tax for not buying health insurance (that part is going to be overturned by the Supreme Court anyway, so I wouldn’t waste time worrying about it.)

Let the sheeple who voted for Obama rot in their crappy death care system. We need to set about creating a whole new one that we can buy into and let them rot.

rockmom on December 21, 2009 at 9:36 AM

They are staeaing billions for making sure they never leave office. They have overthrown the American people without firing a shot. The road to servitude will be long and painful, but the ignorance of the people will be the foundation for their power.

volsense on December 21, 2009 at 9:36 AM

My advice to conservatives is to get busy and start some businesses here. Making money and screwing the government will be the best revenge of all.

rockmom on December 21, 2009 at 9:33 AM

That’s the beauty of being a conservative – we have brains and use them. I have no doubt every conservative entrepreneur has already come up with a way to beat this thing in whatever form it passes.

I’m not as angry as I was last night either – I’m more resolved. Resolved to get the freaking democrats out of power once and for all no matter what it takes.

This country is too important not to.

gophergirl on December 21, 2009 at 9:37 AM

Again a reminder. There is NO moderate Communist. No moderate Nazi.No moderate axe murderer. No moderate terrorist. And No moderate Democrat.

The Nelsons, Lincolns, Liebermans and Landrieus of this world will let you down EVERY SINGLE TIME.

MaiDee on December 21, 2009 at 9:37 AM

Interesting that Barry isn’t all over the TV this morning talking about how unprecedented and awesome this is. Well, he did say he was willing to be a one-termer in order to “get health care,” so I’d say his corrupt party just pretty much cemented that for him. Watch over the next few days as he tries to make this into something Congress did.

Rational Thought on December 21, 2009 at 9:37 AM

angryed on December 21, 2009 at 9:35 AM

…or it will be if we allow them to disarm us before we clean house. The time appears to be very near when we either exercise the 2nd amendment or lose it.

MikeA on December 21, 2009 at 9:38 AM

Openly bribing Senate members and holding votes in the middle of the night during the Christmas holiday?

COME my tan-faced children,
Follow well in order, get your weapons ready,
Have you your pistols? have you your sharp-edged axes?
Pioneers! O pioneers!

For we cannot tarry here,
We must march my darlings, we must bear the brunt of danger,
We the youthful sinewy races, all the rest on us depend,
Pioneers! O pioneers!

Join the march!

Dorvillian on December 21, 2009 at 9:06

Great to see America’s most famous gay poet quoted here. Or was it just a Levi’s product placement?

I was sipping wine with Senate employee yesterday, and she maintained that conference bills are not subject to closure. I contained my glee but wonder if she was correct. Any parliamentarians Out there?

Bleeds Blue on December 21, 2009 at 9:39 AM

The sorry a$$ turds are saying what a wonderful gift they have given America. I can’t take it.

mobydutch on December 21, 2009 at 9:34 AM

They’re Marxists with a fascist tendency. Pandering to the parasitic underclass as a means of gaining and retaining power is, for them, a pure religious experience.

rplat on December 21, 2009 at 9:39 AM

…or it will be if we allow them to disarm us before we clean house. The time appears to be very near when we either exercise the 2nd amendment or lose it.

MikeA on December 21, 2009 at 9:38 AM

What did Reagan say – the 2nd Amendment is here to make sure the other ones are kept?

gophergirl on December 21, 2009 at 9:39 AM

All the talk about voting these pukes from office, and they themselves seem so unconcerned, makes me wonder what else is lying in wait to be foisted upon America.

Bishop on December 21, 2009 at 9:01 AM

Bishop: H*lluva good point,Bishop,this only emboldens them,
if the Left can get away with this,then,I think,
your correct,what else in their plans do they have.

And,btw,Obama claimed he had plans for his agenda,
the millions of jobs,after one year,as President,
he has no plan,

so,can AMERICA SEE THE REAL PLAN THAT IS LOCKED
AWAY IN REID AND PELOSI`S SAFE!!!:)

canopfor on December 21, 2009 at 9:40 AM

What we need is some civil disobedience. How fast will get noticed if everyone takes a day or two off in protest?

bbordwell on December 21, 2009 at 9:40 AM

a billion here, a billion there….

sheesh!

cmsinaz on December 21, 2009 at 9:40 AM

Firefly_76 on December 21, 2009 at 9:35 AM

that is absolutely right. They may not have been colluding with the Marxists but they are complicit.

They could have shut the Senate down completely and didn’t. There have been multiple opportunities to do so the most recent being; Kay Bailey Hutchinson cast the deciding vote this weekend to end debate on the Defense bill and put Health care back on the table.

they are complicit in this unless they shut the Senate down.

elduende on December 21, 2009 at 9:40 AM

elduende on December 21, 2009 at 9:40 AM

spot on

cmsinaz on December 21, 2009 at 9:42 AM

While I don’t advocate the same treatment of these collective scumbags that Mussolini and Ceausescu received…..if we ever get to the point of an anarchical storming of D.C. I’ll bring the rope.

TugboatPhil on December 21, 2009 at 9:42 AM

that is absolutely right. They may not have been colluding with the Marxists but they are complicit.

They could have shut the Senate down completely and didn’t. There have been multiple opportunities to do so the most recent being; Kay Bailey Hutchinson cast the deciding vote this weekend to end debate on the Defense bill and put Health care back on the table.

they are complicit in this unless they shut the Senate down.

elduende on December 21, 2009 at 9:40 AM

I’m no KBH fan but no she didn’t – that’s wrong. It’s been said many times she only voted yes AFTER the Democrats had their 60 votes.

gophergirl on December 21, 2009 at 9:42 AM

gophergirl on December 21, 2009 at 9:42 AM

they didn’t have 60 votes because Lieberman was not there on Saturday morning.

elduende on December 21, 2009 at 9:44 AM

elduende on December 21, 2009 at 9:40 AM
spot on

cmsinaz on December 21, 2009 at 9:42 AM

So what’s the answer? The only thing I can see is supporting only tea party approved candidates and if that means conservative, constitution, libertarian or other party ticket, so be it.

Firefly_76 on December 21, 2009 at 9:44 AM

Great article over on Big Government,stop protesting in Wash.,it hasn’t helped anyway and let’s work to turning things upside down in our communities.Wash. has got these people by the ba!!s,we have to throw them out first then work our way up.

ohiobabe on December 21, 2009 at 9:44 AM

I was sipping wine with Senate employee yesterday, and she maintained that conference bills are not subject to closure. I contained my glee but wonder if she was correct. Any parliamentarians Out there?

Bleeds Blue on December 21, 2009 at 9:39 AM

Your hatred for democracy is noted.

gwelf on December 21, 2009 at 9:44 AM

All the talk about voting these pukes from office, and they themselves seem so unconcerned, makes me wonder what else is lying in wait to be foisted upon America.

Bishop on December 21, 2009 at 9:01 AM

Amnesty and several billion resulting new voters for Democrats, perhaps?

Midas on December 21, 2009 at 9:44 AM

“rockmom” is living in a dream-world.

These cockroaches have just taken control of 1/6th of the economy, and stolen 1/6 of your economic freedom.

You think, you’re going to be able to overcome that?

You’re a dreamer.

franksalterego on December 21, 2009 at 9:45 AM

So what’s the answer? The only thing I can see is supporting only tea party approved candidates and if that means conservative, constitution, libertarian or other party ticket, so be it.

Firefly_76 on December 21, 2009 at 9:44 AM

NO, God no. Splitting the non-Dem vote in several pieces will help whom again?

Dear God, please let’s all dispense with the third/fourth/fifth party nonsense once and for all.

Midas on December 21, 2009 at 9:46 AM

Your hatred for democracy is noted.

gwelf on December 21, 2009 at 9:44 AM

I’m just asking a procedural question.

However, a bill being passed by a simple majority of elected senators seems pretty democratic to me.

A small bitter minority of Senators bottling up the bill, on the other hand, seems a little anti-democratic.

Bleeds Blue on December 21, 2009 at 9:46 AM

Rational Thought on December 21, 2009 at 9:37 AM

This is why:

Steve Moore of the Wall Street Journal on Obamacare (via Fox News):

There’s a bit of a panic in the White House right now, Paul, because they realize now they’re trying to sell the Edsel of health-care plans. It’s the plan that nobody wants. Conservatives are obviously against it for the reasons that you just mentioned, that it does lead to a single-payer system, and it does not increase competition. But now they have this revolt from the left, a kind of mutiny. Now, how serious this is, it’s still hard to gauge. But what’s unquestionable is that Americans don’t like this plan. There are polls out now that show this plan is much more unpopular than HillaryCare the day it was defeated in Congress some 15 years ago. So they have a big problem. This is supposed to be their crown jewel, their crowning achievement, and it’s a plan that almost no one wants.

It’s a stinker, and it’s called “Obamacare.” Not that they won’t push ahead. It means too much and they’ve gone in too deep. But they have to be looking at 2010 and how much they’ll lose to bring them below 60 in the Senate (to the point the Maine Twins don’t make up the difference?) or the House (what if Bela Pelosi actually loses it?).

Wethal on December 21, 2009 at 9:47 AM

The men and women who set up this country would not recognize it, but they would recognize what happened last night.

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

Think about it. We’ve lost something precious, and now its time to rebuild.

james23 on December 21, 2009 at 9:47 AM

-17 on Rasmussen. Wait until the three days is all about the Senate vote.

Have a good day all – I should work for a little while today.

gophergirl on December 21, 2009 at 9:47 AM

I’m wondering what country Obama is going to take exile in?
I’d guess Iran is his best bet at present. And perhaps Iran and Russia will team up to lob a few nuclear missiles at the U.S. with Obama’s blessing. Obama shall have a lot of United States currency and other treasures stashed away and be in the position to provide intelligence (?) and financial information to these enemies for a successful attack.
But then there is China and N. Korea. He has friends there too; And they have a technology war in progress right now.
Add ACORN and other Democrat jihadi’s within the United States, and we have the next world war within the U.S. borders, with combatants driving into the U.S. from Mexico and Canada in their mini-vans, granted access by DHS.
What Glenn Beck has been preaching will be like a fairy tale compared to the reality that’s going to take place in America’s future.
Who do you think will surrender first? Alaska or Hawaii?

Cybergeezer on December 21, 2009 at 9:49 AM

Think about it. We’ve lost something precious, and now its time to rebuild.

james23 on December 21, 2009 at 9:47 AM

Couldn’t agree more. And our founders would’ve been at war already.

Midas on December 21, 2009 at 9:49 AM

Senator Judas Iscariot Nelson’s quarterly talk show is today at 2:00 CST on KKAR 1290. You can get live streaming from the website.

OmahaConservative on December 21, 2009 at 9:49 AM

Firefly_76 on December 21, 2009 at 9:44 AM

They need to shut the Senate down completely.

Playing these ridiculous games in order to maintain “decorum” or jockey for political benefit because they know it hurts the Marxists is pathetic, when this type of danger exists to the country.

elduende on December 21, 2009 at 9:50 AM

So, isn’t the part where the Reichstag is gutted by fire coming up soon?

Fletch54 on December 21, 2009 at 9:52 AM

I’m just asking a procedural question.

However, a bill being passed by a simple majority of elected senators seems pretty democratic to me.

A small bitter minority of Senators bottling up the bill, on the other hand, seems a little anti-democratic.

Bleeds Blue on December 21, 2009 at 9:46 AM

The majority using federal dollars to essentially buy votes sounds democratic to you? This had to be done at 1am on a Monday? There can’t be any sort of discussion about what this new bill actually does?

I’m sure if the Republicans pulled this same sort of crap you’d just chalk it up to good ‘ol democracy?

This bill is going to spend trillions of dollars, create all sorts of new taxes and regulations. Who really even knows what the bill actually says at this point. The law of unintended consequences tells me we’re going to see big problems in the medical industry – not to mention all the problems that will be caused intentionally.

It’s astonishing to me that you place so much trust in Harry Reid and government bureaucrats that you are gleeful that this was passed before citizens have a chance to actually know what it says and does.

gwelf on December 21, 2009 at 9:52 AM

Well, this is a great thing to wake up to on a Monday morning before Christmas. /sarc

deidre on December 21, 2009 at 9:53 AM

Step 1 Pass Socialized Medicine in the middle of the night by bribing whores and threatening cowards.

Oops the people are angry. No sweat.

Step 2 Use the same tactics to legalize 20 million illegal aliens (read: “Democratic voters”). That should be enough to override the anger.

MaiDee on December 21, 2009 at 9:53 AM

Followed this entire vote via Thomas and everyone is correct. What the Senators in our name did was to find a nice sounding Bill that was connected to a House Version HB 3590 and forced the vote which passed 60-40. This is the reason we should not allow our elected leaders to go to D.C. and do what they want in our name.

We should tell our legislators not to do anything we do not tell them to do. They should be consulting with U.S., their constituents, on topics that impact the district or the rest of U.S.. Further, no Bill can have any amendments or riders that are not directly related to the basic Bill. If there is a companion Bill (idea) in the other body it must be agreed to be melded into one Bill and voted on by both bodies before allowed to be presented to the President for signing into law.

Yes, these ideas are to logical to work, but if you remember your High School Civics classes-oh, that’s right we are not required to have a Civics class since 1970.

MSGTAS on December 21, 2009 at 9:55 AM

Wethal on December 21, 2009 at 9:47 AM

There was no revolt of the left. That is an illusion spread by the Ministry of Truth to inject a little drama into this made for CSPAN mini series. A little something to amuse the proles.

Skandia Recluse on December 21, 2009 at 9:55 AM

Paterson: Health care reform bill punishes New York: Gov. Paterson Monday declared that New York is being “punished… http://bit.ly/8m1VCZ

elduende on December 21, 2009 at 9:55 AM

CBO confirms: It takes 10 years of taxes to pay for 6 years of new entitlements. That is, unless you include the physician mitigation in the separate bill, then it takes 12 years of taxes to pay for 6 years of entitlements.

“Obamacare: Two Years of Taxes for every One Year of Health Service”
What a surprise that no MSM headlined that attention-getter. /s

G. Charles on December 21, 2009 at 9:55 AM

It’s a stinker, and it’s called “Obamacare.” Not that they won’t push ahead. It means too much and they’ve gone in too deep. But they have to be looking at 2010 and how much they’ll lose to bring them below 60 in the Senate (to the point the Maine Twins don’t make up the difference?) or the House (what if Bela Pelosi actually loses it?).

Wethal on December 21, 2009 at 9:47 AM

I don’t think Democrats care how much this costs them at the polls or in elections. Your quote mentioned that this paves the way for single payer – and that’s all they care about. This is an entitlement program that will be nearly impossible to get rid of.

The only thing I see dealing with this again is when it speeds us to bankruptcy. Medicare is due to be insolvent in 2019, Social Security is also in big big trouble and the Democrats are creating another massive entitlement with this bill. At some point these programs and their costs will be so caustic politically that the politicians will have to do something about it.

gwelf on December 21, 2009 at 9:56 AM

Hey !!!

I know what let’s do !!!

Mebbe’ we can get Allahpundit and Michelle Malkin to keep driving a wedge between Conservatives and Republicans.

It worked so swell before.

franksalterego on December 21, 2009 at 9:56 AM

A conservative Democrat is still a Democrat. When push comes to shove they’ll vote with the party.

BadgerHawk on December 21, 2009 at 8:54 AM

There is no such thing as a conservative Democrat.

Dasher on December 21, 2009 at 9:56 AM

Your hatred for democracy is noted.

gwelf on December 21, 2009 at 9:44 AM

I would not say Bleeds Blue and their ilk have a hatred for democracy, it seems to be more of a disdain for liberty. There is no reason they cannot support/pass bills like this at the state level. They using the democractic means and their marketing\educational machine to get power focused in few as hands as possible.

I fully expect no later than 2016, the Democrats will be:
- slamming hard the insurance companies for increased rates
- the free market does not work
- we told you seven years ago the government needed to be an option

And this may work because there are many ignorant people out there, as our resisdent trolls reveal, that beleive we have a free market today.

WashJeff on December 21, 2009 at 9:57 AM

A small bitter minority of Senators bottling up the bill, on the other hand, seems a little anti-democratic.

Bleeds Blue on December 21, 2009 at 9:46 AM

I’m sure you felt the same way 2001-2006. Correct? Amazing how when Dems are in the minority the filibuster is sacrosanct. But as soon as they’re in power, it needs to be gotten rid of ASAP.

angryed on December 21, 2009 at 9:57 AM

Liberalism is an old hag, still bitter from the humiliations of high school when she realized only the pretty girls get to be cheerleaders and homecoming queens.

In time she developed a fixation of wearing that queen’s crown, that jewel.

Last night, she took her crown. There she was, hideous, old, deformed and morbidly obese, standing on stage trembling as if it were real. She squeezed into her satin dress. She was handed a bouquet of roses.

The crown jewel of liberalism, that demented self-deception, had a pathetic coming-out party.

America averts her eyes in repulsion and horror.

jeff_from_mpls on December 21, 2009 at 9:58 AM

Yeah, this corruption is blatant and in our faces at this point.

rpagesc Graham Wants Investigation of Democrats Health Plan Deal: http://bit.ly/7np08s (via @greenvillenews) #hcr #tcot 5 minutes ago from TweetDeck

elduende on December 21, 2009 at 9:58 AM

I don’t think Democrats care how much this costs them at the polls or in elections. Your quote mentioned that this paves the way for single payer – and that’s all they care about. This is an entitlement program that will be nearly impossible to get rid of.

gwelf on December 21, 2009 at 9:56 AM

Because all of the tax provisions go into effect immediately, and the “benefits” (if any) don’t go into effect for several years. The outrage factor may allow the bill to be reversed in 2010.

Dasher on December 21, 2009 at 9:59 AM

We are but one Senate vote away from the abyss.

Last November, I thought it would take Obama between four and six years to destroy America.

He has done it in less than one.

Dave R. on December 21, 2009 at 10:00 AM

I’m sure the left of the Democrat party doesn’t like this bill as much as it’s previous incarnations which explicitly created a ‘government option’ but they are not going to oppose Reids bill – it does eventually lead to single payer socialist utopia and they know they’ll never get a better chance to shove this down the throats of Americans. Those on the left who are making a lot of noise about this are just positioning themselves so that when this crap sandwich does skyrocket the national debt, increases taxation significantly and makes healthcare worse for 80% of Americans they can try to claim it’s because we didn’t go full socialist with it.

gwelf on December 21, 2009 at 10:00 AM

gwelf on December 21, 2009 at 9:52 AM

Dude, don’t feed the troll. The hyper-partisans don’t really care as long as they can chalk up a ‘win’.

p0s3r on December 21, 2009 at 10:01 AM

’m just asking a procedural question.

However, a bill being passed by a simple majority of elected senators seems pretty democratic to me.

A small bitter minority of Senators bottling up the bill, on the other hand, seems a little anti-democratic.

Bleeds Blue on December 21, 2009 at 9:46 AM

But you see . . . most of the participants on this board are not left wing liberals like you. “Democratic” is yielding to the majority and the majority of this country does not want your socialist healthcare manifesto to become law. Now, will you still support “Democracy” or does countering the oppression of the minority seem more apropos?

rplat on December 21, 2009 at 10:01 AM

Anger and opposition to Washington’s policies and edicts–no matter now egregious–hardly ever translate into anything beyond words of frustration. And Washington politicians don’t pay much attention to rhetoric–not even their own.

The best we the people can seem to come up with is “throwing the bums out” every two or four years. BUT NOTHING CHANGES–at least, not in terms of restoring the fundamental principles of freedom and constitutional government.

Throw out George H.W. Bush in 1992, and nothing changes. Throw the Democrats out of Congress in 1994, and nothing changes. Throw Bill Clinton’s party out of the White House in 2000, and nothing changes. Throw out G.W. Bush’s Republicans in 2008, and nothing changes. The only thing that happens with a changing of the guard is an escalation in the pace of whatever version of socialism–or Big Government program–is currently in vogue.

Washington, D.C., is too far gone to salvage. Admit it! Washington is a cesspool, a landfill, and a putrid pond of corruption and duplicity. Neither the Republican nor Democratic Party will ever allow a principled constitutionalist to become its Presidential nominee. No matter whom we elect as President, the beat toward Big-Government socialism and one-world internationalism will go on without interruption. Big Government scalawags own the entire federal system, including Big Media, Big Business, Big Labor, Big Religion, and Big Special Interest Groups. They are all feeding at the government teat.

Folks, let’s get down to where the rubber meets the road: the reason we are in the miserable mess we are in is because the states have–either wittingly or unwittingly–ceded their authority and independence to Washington, D.C. Therefore, it is now critical that states reclaim their authority–authority that is duly granted them under the US Constitution.

All of us who call ourselves conservatives or constitutionalists or libertarians (who, no doubt, compose a majority, especially in “red” states) need to retake our State governments. Elect a governor who knows how to say “No” to the federal government. Elect a State legislature that knows how to say “No” to Washington, D.C. Elect sheriffs and State judges who understand the Constitution, State sovereignty, and the principles of freedom–and who are courageous enough to defend those sacred principles in the face of attempted federal usurpation.

(emphasis added)

Interesting excerpts from a Chuck Baldwin piece, available here:
http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/12/chuck-baldwin-anger-with-federal-government-not-enough/

Firefly_76 on December 21, 2009 at 10:01 AM

angryed on December 21, 2009 at 9:57 AM

I’m sure you’ve also noted the increasingly shrill calls for the entire Senate to be abolished.

They want a dictatorship in this country they just haven’t come out and said so.

elduende on December 21, 2009 at 10:01 AM

I feel like some people are getting blinded by their opposition to Obama. While we definitely don’t want Obama to have a victory (“I passed healthcare!”), what has he really gotten out of this bill? I few regulations (no rescission, can’t consider pre-existing conditions) and a mandate (which will probably be stuck down by the Court).

Take a deep breath and realize that there’s no public option. No, co-opts. No trigger. No slippery slope to socialism. Dudes, we won.

Pats on the back all around. Merry Christmas, folks.

Trent1289 on December 21, 2009 at 10:01 AM

Massachusetts is a microcosm for what the Democrats wish to do to our country.

It created a permanent, dependent underclass which is beholden to it for its free stuff. The mid-sized cities are trashed as a result — public housing is a $hithole, our inner-city public schools are producing criminals rather than graduates, and the upper classes are told that they live in a wonderful place where the needy is helped by the state — as long as no brown people break into their toney homes in Weston or Cohasset or Longmeadow, there’s absolutely no concern.

I’m embarrassed for my state.

D2Boston on December 21, 2009 at 10:02 AM

This Blog is aptly named: HOT AIR!! That is ALL that goes on here, everyone blowing off steam, rightly so, if it wasn’t for the TEA PARTIES! Would anything have been done to stop this onslaught to the very FREEDOMS of this (ONCE) proud country.

You all commiserate, hold hands and talk a whole bunch, vent, get irate, are pissed the hell off, etc etc….

Now what eh?

Talk of Impeachment, talk of throwing the bums out, talk of
Rally for this and that, DO YOU ALL NOT UNDERSTAND THE POWER YOU POSSESS???

Again, as I read here and elsewhere and listen to talk radio, it’s the same complaints, over and over and over again.

I DO believe this country HAS become complaicent, is there any other answer?

All the calls and emails and faxes and getting “in” their face, what has it accomplished?

Why IS no-one listening??

Oh, we get a ‘token’ someone speaking out at the nth hour, what good does it do eh?

I do not have the answers, except to say this, AMERICA AND HER PEOPLE ARE NOT PISSED OFF ENOUGH!!

Where is the fighting spirit??

Where is the indomitable faith in this country?

Many questions have been asked, truly, what is there that the people can do LEGALLY to ouster the current administration?

I am not an Attourney on the political aspects of what WE as a people can actually do, but there has to BE somthing!!

I have lost all respect for the political procedures….

I am at a loss….I am as lost as many of you feel….

I now believe this nation is done, finished, dead.

RoxanneH on December 21, 2009 at 10:02 AM

I’m reminded of this quote from Yamamoto at the conclusion of Tora! Tora! Tora! after the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor: “I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve.” Hopefully everyone is awake NOW!

tims472 on December 21, 2009 at 10:02 AM

Anybody who drives anywhere in I-64 is now confused – at the news that VA actually makes an effort to maintain roads, that is.

Wind Rider on December 21, 2009 at 9:16 AM
//

Wait, I-64 is a road? I always thought it was a gravel driveway or something.

uknowmorethanme on December 21, 2009 at 10:04 AM

Boehner just issued a statement opposing the Senate bill. Man, I just hate that guy. Totally ineffective fake tan greaseball.

The 40 GOP senators should have walked out before the vote — in protest of the bribes paid to democrat senators — and THAT would have been the story this morning. The walkout and the CORRUPTION. But nooooo, Boehner issues a freakin’ statement, and nothing from the GOP Senate leadership. Useless cowards. All of ‘em. I can’t believe they all stayed there and voted for this crap. They should have walked out. The MSM would have HAD to report exactly what they were opposed to.

Rational Thought on December 21, 2009 at 10:04 AM

NO, God no. Splitting the non-Dem vote in several pieces will help whom again?

Dear God, please let’s all dispense with the third/fourth/fifth party nonsense once and for all.

Midas on December 21, 2009 at 9:46 AM

This is how we become accomplishes on this mess, out of fear. We keep sending these spineless republicans to congress. And they continue to take us for granted. Until conservatives make it clear they are only going to support conservative candidates from any party we will continued to be screwed. We should also let Democrats know that we are willing to support a conservative democrat as long as they don’t fail to vote conservative.

neuquenguy on December 21, 2009 at 10:04 AM

I would not say Bleeds Blue and their ilk have a hatred for democracy, it seems to be more of a disdain for liberty. There is no reason they cannot support/pass bills like this at the state level. They using the democractic means and their marketing\educational machine to get power focused in few as hands as possible.

I fully expect no later than 2016, the Democrats will be:
- slamming hard the insurance companies for increased rates
- the free market does not work
- we told you seven years ago the government needed to be an option

And this may work because there are many ignorant people out there, as our resisdent trolls reveal, that beleive we have a free market today.

WashJeff on December 21, 2009 at 9:57 AM

I guess I’ll rephrase it: Bleeds Blue’s love of a corrupt government is noted.

Democrats are going to be putting the screws on insurance companies from the get go (this bill contains more regulations of the insurance industry including clauses about not rejecting people for pre-existing conditions). They are going to set up things (intentionally or not) that will cause insurance to be more expensive and drive insurance companies to the brink and then later claim that the government needs to step in to fix the problem.

gwelf on December 21, 2009 at 10:04 AM

Because all of the tax provisions go into effect immediately, and the “benefits” (if any) don’t go into effect for several years. The outrage factor may allow the bill to be reversed in 2010.

Dasher on December 21, 2009 at 9:59 AM

Won’t happen. The taxes are hidden. Soda will go from $1.20 a bottle to $1.30 a bottle. But nobody buying soda will think hmmm this stupid health care bill just made soda more expensive, I’m voting Republican. They’ll never even know why the 10 cents is added on.

Same with taxes on employer provided insurance. When premiums go up, people will a) blame insurance companies or b) blame their employer. They will never put two and two together and blame ObamaCare.

And with 2000 pages there are hundreds if not thousands of small taxes here and there that alone are insignificant, but combined are excessive. In this aspect the Dems were very smart in hiding the taxes to the point that it’s impossible to abolish.

angryed on December 21, 2009 at 10:05 AM

The Democrats OWN this bill. And in time, taxpayers will HANG THEM with it.

GarandFan on December 21, 2009 at 10:05 AM

We need to strategically nationalize the mid term elections. Toward that end, we should form a Congressional 6, 12 or 24 PAC and specifically target weak links in the upcoming mid term elections. We should pledge our time, money and other resources to derail these unconstitutional, undemocratic lurches to the left that are designed to take your liberty and property. If not now….when? Our children and grandchildren will be less well off and have less liberty if we allow this to stand.

This sort of PAC movement is the next logical step from the tea party gatherings and seeks to take positive steps to roll back govt. I would further suggest we employ merchandise sales with the proceeds to be donated to defeating targeted politicians and to market the movement.

R Square on December 21, 2009 at 10:06 AM

A small bitter minority of Senators bottling up the bill, on the other hand, seems a little anti-democratic.

Bleeds Blue on December 21, 2009 at 9:46 AM

I’m sure you felt the same way 2001-2006. Correct? Amazing how when Dems are in the minority the filibuster is sacrosanct. But as soon as they’re in power, it needs to be gotten rid of ASAP.

angryed on December 21, 2009 at 9:57 AM

I had no great love for filibusters even when we were using them. Their most famous use was blocking civil rights legislation and the Senate is so damn slow, anyway, that they have no real purpose. And I don’t blame republicans for using them. You do what you have to do. It’s just that, when someone accuses the Dems of being undemocratic, I have to laugh, given Republican tactics.

I fully expect no later than 2016, the Democrats will be:
- slamming hard the insurance companies for increased rates
- the free market does not work
- we told you seven years ago the government needed to be an option

And this may work because there are many ignorant people out there, as our resisdent trolls reveal, that beleive we have a free market today.

WashJeff on December 21, 2009 at 9:57 AM

Why wait until 2016? Let’s start now. Insurance companies are leeches, the free market does not work for health care (for a number of reasons) and a government option provides needed competition to the oligopoly that now controls our health care.

Bleeds Blue on December 21, 2009 at 10:06 AM

What’s up next, you ask?

The vermin in Congress and the Vermin in Chief will try to secure their positions.

Look for Amnesty.
Look for laying the groundwork for massive voter fraud.
All aided and abetted by the media, of course.

With the resulting continued majorities in the House and Senate, then look for Cap and Trade, serious efforts at gun control, massive taxation- whatever an emboldened and all powerful left desires.

justltl on December 21, 2009 at 10:06 AM

Dude, don’t feed the troll.

p0s3r on December 21, 2009 at 10:01 AM

It is impossible not to. My tax dollars are taken turned into food stamps and other wealth transfers.

WashJeff on December 21, 2009 at 10:07 AM

Medicare denies claims 2x as much as insurance companies. But don’t worry the libs won’t screw ObamaCare up this much – they’ll get it right this time!

http://hotair.com/headlines/?p=64224

gwelf on December 21, 2009 at 10:08 AM

Why wait until 2016? Let’s start now. Insurance companies are leeches, the free market does not work for health care (for a number of reasons) and a government option provides needed competition to the oligopoly that now controls our health care.

Bleeds Blue on December 21, 2009 at 10:06 AM

I know you think that we have a free marker in Health insurance\care right now. We do not it and you will not be convinced otherwise.

Why do you “we” have to wait until 2016? Cause your party has no BALLS. You have 60 Dems senators. A 70ish seat majority in the house. Your party still cannot pass its holy grail of the last 70 years. Does your party not the courage of its convictions? Do you need to weed out the DINOs?

WashJeff on December 21, 2009 at 10:11 AM

Boehner just issued a statement opposing the Senate bill. Man, I just hate that guy. Totally ineffective fake tan greaseball.

The 40 GOP senators should have walked out before the vote — in protest of the bribes paid to democrat senators — and THAT would have been the story this morning. The walkout and the CORRUPTION. But nooooo, Boehner issues a freakin’ statement, and nothing from the GOP Senate leadership. Useless cowards. All of ‘em. I can’t believe they all stayed there and voted for this crap. They should have walked out. The MSM would have HAD to report exactly what they were opposed to.

Rational Thought on December 21, 2009 at 10:04 AM

The GOP acted like McCain did on the campagin. They gave up, and they are giving up. They are just waiting for 2010 to get more seats and then they might stand up for something, but I doubt it.

deidre on December 21, 2009 at 10:11 AM

deidre on December 21, 2009 at 10:11 AM

If history is anything to go by . . .

Firefly_76 on December 21, 2009 at 10:13 AM

Medicare denies claims 2x as much as insurance companies. But don’t worry the libs won’t screw ObamaCare up this much – they’ll get it right this time!

http://hotair.com/headlines/?p=64224

gwelf on December 21, 2009 at 10:08 AM

Again, I don’t think people understand the bill. Lieberman and Nelson got rid of any government run insurance option. We don’t have to worry baout a new Meicare-like entity.

There’s no public option, no co-opts, no trigger. On top of that Medicare (single payer healthcare for those over 65 – meaning SOCIALISM) will be severely cut by this thing. This is the best the liberals could come up with and, while it’s dumb, it’s not the apocalypse we were facing weeks ago.

Yes, Obama is going to pass something. But not anything like what they wanted.

Trent1289 on December 21, 2009 at 10:14 AM

Why wait until 2016? Let’s start now. Insurance companies are leeches, the free market does not work for health care (for a number of reasons) and a government option provides needed competition to the oligopoly that now controls our health care.

Bleeds Blue on December 21, 2009 at 10:06 AM

Inurance companies are leeches? They make 3% profit. They deny claims 1/2 as much as Medicare. And you’re kidding yourself if we have a free-market health insurance/medical industry.

Pleas explain to me how government can provide competition to insurance companies? The government doesn’t have to restrict itself to how much money it brings in – if it falls short it can tax for more or print it. It’s ludicrous to say that this creates competition. It’s like saying the mafia squeezing out competitors is competition. The government will tell doctors who much they will be paid for services and undercut insurance companies by offering insurance at unsustainable prices (because the government will be bailed out by tax payers)

gwelf on December 21, 2009 at 10:14 AM

Death panels

petefrt on December 21, 2009 at 10:16 AM

Shocker: Medicare Has A Higher Claim Denial Rate Than Private Sector Employers

http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/shocker_medicare_has_a_higher_claim_denial_rate_than_private_sector_employe/

by all means lets give the government total control.

elduende on December 21, 2009 at 10:17 AM

A small bitter minority of Senators bottling up the bill, on the other hand, seems a little anti-democratic. Bleeds Blue on December 21, 2009 at 9:46 AM

This argument works only if one ignores the fact that the majority of Americans, including 67% of Nebraskans who elected Nelson, oppose Obamacare.

LASue on December 21, 2009 at 10:17 AM

Trent1289 on December 21, 2009 at 10:14 AM

The bill still gives government the power to further regulate the insurance industry. This will still lead to single payer – albeit at a much slower pace. But you are right – this could have been a lot worse. Our only hope is that liberals in the House are so stupid and frenzied about getting a single-payer system now that they will reject the senate bill. I suspect though that the final bill will not contain any government option but will create so much regulation that it will set up the insurance industry to fail so that government can swoop in to ‘save’ it later.

gwelf on December 21, 2009 at 10:18 AM

And here I thought vote buying was a criminal act.

Johnnyreb on December 21, 2009 at 8:53 AM

Apparentley that aspect does’nt kick in till you get down to the govenors level.

heshtesh on December 21, 2009 at 10:18 AM

Again, I don’t think people understand the bill.

Trent1289 on December 21, 2009 at 10:14 AM

Have you actually seen the bill? (rhetorical question)

neuquenguy on December 21, 2009 at 10:20 AM

gwelf on December 21, 2009 at 9:56 AM

Very true, they are taking the long view on socialized medicine.

But Obama also wants to crow about successes in SOTU. He can always lie about jobs saved or created (not that anyone would believe him). He was a failure in Asia, a failure at Copenhagen (twice), and a failure in Mideast peace. He even failed to intimidate Honduras into taking Zelaya back.

He’s looking to 2012, when the taxes for Obamacare will be in full swing, but there’s no benefits yet to point to. Three years is a long time, but they still have worries.

Wethal on December 21, 2009 at 10:24 AM

My kid said this morning philosophically: “Dad, you know that all the good things you eat turn to poop?” Guess what the congressional intestinal tract produced?

anikol on December 21, 2009 at 10:24 AM

Why do you “we” have to wait until 2016? Cause your party has no BALLS. You have 60 Dems senators. A 70ish seat majority in the house. Your party still cannot pass its holy grail of the last 70 years. Does your party not the courage of its convictions? Do you need to weed out the DINOs?

WashJeff on December 21, 2009 at 10:11 AM

I would love to weed out the DINOs and pass a good French-style single-payer plus private option plan. Alas, it’s not going to happen.

Inurance companies are leeches? They make 3% profit. They deny claims 1/2 as much as Medicare. And you’re kidding yourself if we have a free-market health insurance/medical industry

20 to 30 percent of your health care dollars go to insurance company overhead. Sure, their margins might be small, but their salaries and bureaucracies are large.

Bleeds Blue on December 21, 2009 at 10:26 AM

You do what you have to do. It’s just that, when someone accuses the Dems of being undemocratic, I have to laugh, given Republican tactics.
Bleeds Blue on December 21, 2009 at 10:06 AM

I don’t mind it if the minority uses the filibuster or any other similar ‘tactics’ – regardless of who the minority is. What bothers me is when Senators and Representatives misrepresent their bills and the consequences (e.g., having the CBO use farcical scoring methods like counting the first ’10′ years of the bill include 4 years where there are almost no outlays but money coming in to conclude it will reduce the deficit and being dependent on Medicare actually being cut 500 billion in the same time period and relying on the doctor fix which probably won’t actually be done) and when federal dollars are used to buy the votes. I don’t care which party does this – it’s corrupt. Period. If Republicans did it I would be upset as well – and I wouldn’t hesitate to make it known as they would supposedly be representing me.

gwelf on December 21, 2009 at 10:26 AM

20 to 30 percent of your health care dollars go to insurance company overhead. Sure, their margins might be small, but their salaries and bureaucracies are large.

Bleeds Blue on December 21, 2009 at 10:26 AM

Overhead largely created by massive government regulation.

You think the government can run an insurance scheme with less overhead? Medicare loses hundreds of billions a year in fraud. If this was occurring in the private industry they would be bankrupt.

gwelf on December 21, 2009 at 10:28 AM

All the talk about voting these pukes from office, and they themselves seem so unconcerned, makes me wonder what else is lying in wait to be foisted upon America.

Bishop on December 21, 2009 at 9:01 AM

As someone above said regarding the 2nd amendment, using it or losing all the others in a paraphrase of Reagan’s, this is the other shoe drop IMHO but in a way not I think is fully understood. Mind you I am not positing a pro or con position on the matter, but the surest way for the progressive’s to put the final nail in the coffin of liberty is the enactment of the Police-State. The only way that can come about prior to our voting them out in ’10 & ’12 is a declaration of a National Emergency.

With the excuse of the Swine Flu quickly fading as plausible rationale for such a thing, the surest bet would be the outbreak of civil unrest in reaction to their confiscation of our freedoms. In a perverse way the quickest way to our servitude could be to fight for our freedom. This has been a worry of mine since the Town-Halls last summer as I wrote about at the time.

http://papundits.wordpress.com/2009/08/27/please-do-not-feed-the-800lb-gorilla%e2%80%a6/

At some point there has to be a moral case where one has been pushed just too far. Where it legitimately and clearly becomes a circumstance between “Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness” and the penurious subjagation by Big Brother. The progressive game plan over the last century has been one of insidious incremental encroachment in baby-steps so as to not frighten and tip their hand. This last push into Obamacare, or Lenin put it “the Keystone of Socialism” might prove to be that point. But I don’t think so, I think we will probably roll over on this as well as the full impact/injury of it will not be felt for years yet.

http://papundits.wordpress.com/2009/10/25/the-progressive-span-and-the-bridge-to-healthcare-reform/

Personally I feel the Public’s breaking point will be in the the implementation of the draconian Eco-Fascism that will be unleashed by the EPA as soon as Cass Sunstein finishes turning the indecipherable legalese into whatever he wishes into inflexible bureaucratic regulations.

http://papundits.wordpress.com/2009/09/10/the-importance-of-threat-identification-and-priority-targeting-when-calling-for-fire/

Unfortunately by the time Sunstein has our Dhimmitude to bureaucracy etched into regulatory stone, it may well be too late to effectively mount adequate resistance. There are many fine bloggers here on HotAir and other sites valiantly striving to alert our countrymen to perils that bear down upon us, but as I watch the Obama/Reid/Pelosi juggernaught plow on before our eyes I cannot help but feel it is all too little, too late.

I’m sorry if I sound a downer this morning, but the incompetence of the Republican Leadership that has allowed this transpire, fails to inspire any hope of peaceably avoiding the death-knell of Liberty.

Archimedes on December 21, 2009 at 10:29 AM

Insurance companies are leeches, the free market does not work for health care (for a number of reasons) and a government option provides needed competition to the oligopoly that now controls our health care.

Bleeds Blue on December 21, 2009 at 10:06 AM

Say What? If insurance companies are leeches, what on earth do you call the US Government? When has the US Government ever offered “competition”? When has the US Government ever been able to offer a service for less than private business? What are you smoking – and can I have some?

katablog.com on December 21, 2009 at 10:29 AM

20 to 30 percent of your health care dollars go to insurance company overhead. Sure, their margins might be small, but their salaries and bureaucracies are large.

Bleeds Blue on December 21, 2009 at 10:26 AM

And government is going to have a smaller bureaucracy? With lower salaries? And less red tape?

gwelf on December 21, 2009 at 10:30 AM

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