Krugman 2005: Religious extremists will try to kill the filibuster. Krugman 2009: Let’s kill the filibuster.

posted at 5:54 pm on December 21, 2009 by Allahpundit

Yeah, plenty of righties are on the flip side of the coin, but that’s all the more reason to post this. Their logic’s been blessed by a bona fide Nobel prize winner.

Any economics Ph.Ds want to try identifying the crucial variable that’s changed in Krugman’s calculus between then and now? 2005:

Yesterday The Washington Post reported on the growing number of pharmacists who, on religious grounds, refuse to fill prescriptions for birth control or morning-after pills. These pharmacists talk of personal belief; but the effect is to undermine laws that make these drugs available. And let me make a prediction: soon, wherever the religious right is strong, many pharmacists will be pressured into denying women legal drugs.

And it won’t stop there. There is a nationwide trend toward “conscience” or “refusal” legislation. Laws in Illinois and Mississippi already allow doctors and other health providers to deny virtually any procedure to any patient. Again, think of how such laws expose doctors to pressure and intimidation.

But the big step by extremists will be an attempt to eliminate the filibuster, so that the courts can be packed with judges less committed to upholding the law than Mr. Greer.

And today:

Now consider what lies ahead. We need fundamental financial reform. We need to deal with climate change. We need to deal with our long-run budget deficit. What are the chances that we can do all that — or, I’m tempted to say, any of it — if doing anything requires 60 votes in a deeply polarized Senate?

Some people will say that it has always been this way, and that we’ve managed so far. But it wasn’t always like this. Yes, there were filibusters in the past — most notably by segregationists trying to block civil rights legislation. But the modern system, in which the minority party uses the threat of a filibuster to block every bill it doesn’t like, is a recent creation…

Back in the mid-1990s two senators — Tom Harkin and, believe it or not, Joe Lieberman — introduced a bill to reform Senate procedures. (Management wants me to make it clear that in my last column I wasn’t endorsing inappropriate threats against Mr. Lieberman.) Sixty votes would still be needed to end a filibuster at the beginning of debate, but if that vote failed, another vote could be held a couple of days later requiring only 57 senators, then another, and eventually a simple majority could end debate. Mr. Harkin says that he’s considering reintroducing that proposal, and he should.

His defense, I assume, will be that it was only the threat of “extremism” that led him to defend the filibuster back in the day, which is lame. If you lift this roadblock, by definition you’re going to get more “extreme” legislation: An ObamaCare bill with all the socialistic public-option trimmings in the current case, and maybe massive social security reform and a few Miguel Estradas on the bench down the line when the GOP retakes Congress. Endorsing the former necessarily means endorsing the latter, which of course Krugman is unwilling to do. I actually agree with him that the filibuster’s been abused insofar as the 60-vote standard operates as a de facto constitutional amendment to the principle of majority rule, but the Harkin/Lieberman compromise he describes is simply a timewaster. If we’re going to end the 60-vote threshold, let’s end it cleanly. Wait for some year where there’s a significant chance that the Senate elections will produce a closely divided body such that it’s impossible to know in advance who’ll control the chamber. Both sides would then have some incentive to nuke the filibuster, provided it only went into effect after the new Congress was sworn in. It’s a pure bet for each, but that’s the only way this is ever going to happen.

Exit question: Is it really true that ObamaCare would pass breezily under simple majority rule? Presumably all the Blue Dogs who are now voting yes — Bayh, Lincoln, Pryor, Lieberman, Nelson, Landrieu, and maybe a few others — would instantly flip to no since their votes would no longer be needed. Reid might still have a two or three-vote cushion given the Dems’ huge majority, but that huge majority is a historical rarity; as the Dems’ advantage shrinks in years going forward, the cushion would disappear until they ended up haggling over the 50th vote the way they’re now haggling over the 60th. Which isn’t to say there’s no difference — obviously, simple majority rule is easier to achieve — but it’s not a panacea either.

Blowback

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JusDreamin on December 21, 2009 at 5:58 PM

Ya know, while were at it, let’s just get rid of this whole messy “Democracy” thing. Because, you know, China gots it goin’ ON! KnowhatI’msayin’?

Wyznowski on December 21, 2009 at 6:00 PM

How dare you bring back a liberal’s own words from that past to smear them in the present!

Once down the memory hole, ALWAYS down the memory hole. /

portlandon on December 21, 2009 at 6:00 PM

Layers of fact checkers.

JammieWearingFool on December 21, 2009 at 6:00 PM

As I asked in the headline thread, why did Medicare pass the senate in 1964 52-48 when a 2/3 cloture was required?

WashJeff on December 21, 2009 at 6:01 PM

Douche

Flyboy on December 21, 2009 at 6:01 PM

They’ll give anybody a Nobel these days…

mjbrooks3 on December 21, 2009 at 6:02 PM

That’s been the rallying cry on all liberal blogs since Lieberman said he would filibuster with the public option.

Hopefully Lieberman sticks to that promise when they try to reintroduce the public option in the conference committee.

Enoxo on December 21, 2009 at 6:02 PM

Well I’m willing to endorse anything so long as it slows down and impedes the agenda of people like Obama. The slower the government moves the better for the country.

Obviously I’m talking within the legal limits but I think it’s best to keep the filibuster where it is.

Kronos on December 21, 2009 at 6:03 PM

… and let’s tear up the Constitution for Obamacare while we are at it.

mjbrooks3 on December 21, 2009 at 6:03 PM

Nope, these losers are blaming the rules. There is no intellectual honesty.

joeindc44 on December 21, 2009 at 6:04 PM

These folks don’t care anything about consistancy and we have only to look at Sen. Whitehouse to see that they will lie regardless of the evidence of what they heck they say.

Cindy Munford on December 21, 2009 at 6:05 PM

Krugman is a very elastic good. A little bit stretches a long way.

R Square on December 21, 2009 at 6:06 PM

Silence ! The flip flop is settled. He got a nobel prize you know.

the_nile on December 21, 2009 at 6:06 PM

… and let’s tear up the Constitution for Obamacare while we are at it.

mjbrooks3 on December 21, 2009 at 6:03 PM

We already did that with the GM and Chrysler bailout.

Knucklehead on December 21, 2009 at 6:06 PM

Why not good old school and make the Senators talk, no cloture votes? If you cannot talk\debate, you give up the floor and the vote proceeds…unless another Senator wants to talk.

WashJeff on December 21, 2009 at 6:09 PM

That picture up front, of Krugman, resembles the devil himself.

Schadenfreude on December 21, 2009 at 6:12 PM

So what Krugman is saying,with a bible in one hand,
and a rifle in the other!!!

Btw,hasn’t Grugman been, offering his service’s to the
White House,under the guise of Obama having ‘the smart’
people exchanging ideas on the economy and healthcare!!

canopfor on December 21, 2009 at 6:12 PM

Krugman 2005: Religious extremists will try to kill the filibuster. Krugman 2009: Let’s kill the filibuster.

Ergo, Krugman is a religious extremist.

MB4 on December 21, 2009 at 6:12 PM

I will only comment to say….I won’t give Slugman the time of day. He’s a waste of skin.

capejasmine on December 21, 2009 at 6:15 PM

That picture up front, of Krugman, resembles the devil himself.

Schadenfreude on December 21, 2009 at 6:12 PM

Add toned arms and mom jeans and it would be a perfect 666.

MB4 on December 21, 2009 at 6:15 PM

Krugman is so full of shit it ought be exploding out his ears like a volcano.

gsherin on December 21, 2009 at 6:15 PM

USE THEIR OWN WORDS AGAINST THEM!!!!!

canopfor on December 21, 2009 at 6:16 PM

So you are saying that liberal journalists have no moral compass…that they just change their minds to suit their purposes?
Imagine…just imagine…a liberal journalist not being consistent, but just supporting the liberal agenda…never heard of such a thing.
HAHAHAHAHA! That is all they have, facts and consistency would destroy their world…

right2bright on December 21, 2009 at 6:16 PM

Kruggie is a deer in headlights. When anyone challenges him he wets himself.

d1carter on December 21, 2009 at 6:17 PM

I’m not sure the Republicans in the senate have the mental and physical courage to sustain a filibuster . . . good lord their staffs are already whining about not being able to go home for Christmas. They certainly aren’t the kind of people you’d want to join you in a street fight because after a few seconds you’d be the only one left fighting. As everyone on this board knows, our problems go way beyond the Democrats.

rplat on December 21, 2009 at 6:18 PM

That picture up front, of Krugman, resembles the devil himself.

Schadenfreude on December 21, 2009 at 6:12 PM
============================================
Add toned arms and mom jeans and it would be a perfect 666.

MB4 on December 21, 2009 at 6:15 PM
==========================================

MB4: As,Krugman licks away on his cupcake!!(Sarc):)

canopfor on December 21, 2009 at 6:18 PM

All new law should crawl. What’s the rush? I don’t care who holds the senate, the process should give all parties an opportunity to read and comprehend the legislation, most of all the people.

We’ve had enough of bad laws. Time should never be a reason to pass a law.

donh525 on December 21, 2009 at 6:18 PM

… and let’s tear up the Constitution for Obamacare while we are at it.

mjbrooks3 on December 21, 2009 at 6:03 PM

We already did that with the GM and Chrysler bailout.

Knucklehead on December 21, 2009 at 6:06 PM

There you dissidents go clinging to your outdated constitution again.

DasObamaReich on December 21, 2009 at 6:19 PM

Kruggie is a deer in headlights. When anyone challenges him he wets himself.

d1carter on December 21, 2009 at 6:17 PM

d1carter: And,as the deer looks up,SaraCuda has him dead in
her sights,ahem!hehe:)

canopfor on December 21, 2009 at 6:20 PM

Careful what you ask for because you might just get it.

I wonder how Krugmoron will feel about a simple majority when the dems are no longer in power. “How dare they exercise the nuclear option….minority rights!

Bishop on December 21, 2009 at 6:21 PM

Well I’m willing to endorse anything so long as it slows down and impedes the agenda of people like Obama. The slower the government moves the better for the country.

Obviously I’m talking within the legal limits but I think it’s best to keep the filibuster where it is.

Kronos on December 21, 2009 at 6:03 PM

I totally agree, the slower the better. No matter who is in the majority

IowaWoman on December 21, 2009 at 6:21 PM

God, I miss common sense.
I really do.

upinak on December 21, 2009 at 6:23 PM

I’m not sure the Republicans in the senate have the mental and physical courage to sustain a filibuster . . . good lord their staffs are already whining about not being able to go home for Christmas. They certainly aren’t the kind of people you’d want to join you in a street fight because after a few seconds you’d be the only one left fighting. As everyone on this board knows, our problems go way beyond the Democrats.

rplat on December 21, 2009 at 6:18 PM

rplat: Especially,with Reid’s schedule,of voting on this,
Christmas eve,at 7:00PM!:)

canopfor on December 21, 2009 at 6:24 PM

The filibuster keeps the Senate as a check against a wild, wild west House. It keeps is a “Gentleman’s Chamber,” where you have to play nice and be more moderate to accomplish anything.

Either party can play all the games they want with gerrymandering to get the House the way they want it, but the Senate can’t be affected by that without redoing state lines.

The problem in the Senate right now has nothing to do with the filibuster. The huge problem is a complete detachment in voting from the desires of the people they represent. They are no longer a representative body. Both in the House and the Senate, in a PURELY PARTISAN move to try to put their own party in power forever by making us all dependent on that party, they are saying “Screw what the people who put me here want, I’m pushing through this agenda!”

The filibuster is broken right now because of the corruption (Husker Hustle, UConn Con, and the other buy offs) and a complete rejection of the principles representatives are supposed to live by, not because it’s an unreasonable parliamentary rule. Many, many times cloture is voted for and then the bill rejected. Using it as the Democrats did to keep 15 appointees from coming to a vote: wrong, let the vote happen. Using it to stop something that a louder and louder and larger and larger portion of the American public doesn’t want: right, follow the will of the people.

PastorJon on December 21, 2009 at 6:25 PM

Has anyone sent him an email with a link?

Johnnyreb on December 21, 2009 at 6:26 PM

Never, ever, ever listen to anything an economist who hasn’t worked in the private sector.

Daveyardbird on December 21, 2009 at 6:26 PM

Once again folks, you have to remember LIBERALISM IS A MENTAL DISEASE. Therefore you cannot expect a liberal to act or think rationally. In his mind Krugman was right in 2005 and right in 2009.

angryed on December 21, 2009 at 6:26 PM

God, I miss common sense.
I really do.

upinak on December 21, 2009 at 6:23 PM

upinak: Yup,and civility as well,um,on the FU BO The Clown
side that is!!!:)

canopfor on December 21, 2009 at 6:27 PM

Their logic’s been blessed by a bona fide Nobel prize winner.

Not quite, AP…what Krugs “won” isn’t a real Nobel Prize, it’s the “Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel” that was established decades after Alfred Nobel set up the original Prizes.

It is administered by the Nobel Foundation, but even they say it’s not a “Nobel Prize” comparable to the prizes in science or the “Peace Prize”.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_Memorial_Prize_in_Economic_Sciences

Interesting factoid:

Among the most vocal critics of the Prize in Economics is the Swedish human rights lawyer Peter Nobel, a great-grandnephew of Alfred Nobel.

Del Dolemonte on December 21, 2009 at 6:34 PM

Once again folks, you have to remember LIBERALISM IS A MENTAL DISEASE. Therefore you cannot expect a liberal to act or think rationally. In his mind Krugman was right in 2005 and right in 2009.

angryed on December 21, 2009 at 6:26 PM

angryed: But LibTards have an angle,er,talk’n point that
they love,

“The Facts have Changed”:)

canopfor on December 21, 2009 at 6:35 PM

Ugh…every time I see this asshat I get the feeling that some huge pubic hair factory has exploded all over some poor saps face. Do we really have to see this guys face plastered all over HA posts?

CapitalistPig on December 21, 2009 at 6:36 PM

I’d rather go the opposite way and adopt a two-thirds vote to even consider a bill on the senate floor in the first place… and to stop a fillibuster once the bill has been debated.

That’s essentially the rule we have here in Texas and it makes passing a bill that much harder since 1/3 plus one senator (in our case, just 11 out of 30 senators) can block anything at the outset.

It is inconvenient when you’re in the majority, but it sure shuts down a lot of crazy stuff like what we’ve seen in the last few days.

TXUS on December 21, 2009 at 6:37 PM

Ugh, every time I see a picture of this Krugman clown I start to think that some pubic hair factory has exploded all over some poor saps face…

CapitalistPig on December 21, 2009 at 6:37 PM

Actually, we have 31 senators, so 12 can block.

TXUS on December 21, 2009 at 6:42 PM

Krugman is expendable. He thinks he’ll be rewarded by the Politburo when they attain total control. Instead, they’ll simply disappear him. He’s too expensive to keep around and knows too much. Plus, any good Marxist can write propaganda.

darwin on December 21, 2009 at 6:51 PM

WashJeff, Medicare was voted on in 1965 as part of the Social Security Act of 1965, so says Wiki.

Found this history, including shenanigans and outright illegal propaganda by HEW using tax money:

The bill (HR. 6675) then went to the Senate, where floor action
was not constrained by a closed rule. After voting 64—26 (10 senators
not voting) against striking the Medicare provisions from the bill, the
Senate voted 68—21 (11 senators not voting) for the bill’s passage (U.S.
Cong. Rec.-Senate 9 July 1965: 16100, 16157). Following conference
committee deliberation, Congress adopted the conference committee
report: the House of Representatives on July 27 by avote of 307—116;
the Senate on July29 by a voteof 70—24. President Lyndon B. Johnson
signed the Social Security Amendments of 1965 into law on July 30,
1965.’~As Wasley (1992: 65) put it, “In an instant, with the passage
of Medicare and Medicaid, the government had become the largest
single purchaser of health care.”

http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj16n3/cj16n3-3.pdf

Tom

marinetbryant on December 21, 2009 at 6:53 PM

“Again, think of how such laws expose doctors to pressure and intimidation.”

Huh?!? Once a maroon, always a maroon.

KS Rex on December 21, 2009 at 6:55 PM

That picture up front, of Krugman, resembles the devil himself.

Schadenfreude on December 21, 2009 at 6:12 PM

You’ve met the devil in person?

hicsuget on December 21, 2009 at 6:58 PM

Only thing consistent about Krugman is that he’s an idiot.

GarandFan on December 21, 2009 at 6:58 PM

..let’s kill Krugman..

(joke)

VoyskaPVO on December 21, 2009 at 7:00 PM

Only thing consistent about Krugman is that he’s an idiot.

GarandFan on December 21, 2009 at 6:58 PM

Yes, a useful idiot at that. Marxism loves useful idiots … until they are no longer useful.

darwin on December 21, 2009 at 7:00 PM

..let’s kill Krugman..
(joke)

VoyskaPVO on December 21, 2009 at 7:00 PM

If the wingnuts quote you, they’ll leave off your joke reference, thus quoting you out of context. Careful.

TXUS on December 21, 2009 at 7:09 PM

What’s really cool, is fillibustering Krugman. I never read him but an glad our friends Allah and Ed bring him to us from time to time for comic relief.

TXUS on December 21, 2009 at 7:13 PM

If you have ever heard this idiot talk on the Sunday cable shows, then you know how big an imbecile he is. Why the Times customers put up with such dolts is beyond me.

Hummer53 on December 21, 2009 at 7:13 PM

Krugman was right. He, after all, IS a religious extremist. His god is the government. And his prophet is Barak Hussein Obama. mmm mmm mmm.

wildcat84 on December 21, 2009 at 7:19 PM

Krugman’s full of crap!

MCGIRV on December 21, 2009 at 7:46 PM

Next, he’ll be for counting illegals as 3/5 of a person just so Texas/Arizona/New Mexico/Florida/NC/Georgia can’t get any more congressional districts.

SouthernGent on December 21, 2009 at 7:48 PM

Krugman is an idiot… and that’s the best that can be said of him.

He’s an extreme leftist and it taints everything he says or writes. His writing on economic issues is so bad, it has to stay in the NY Times as no other thinking readership would accept its holes.

mankai on December 21, 2009 at 7:48 PM

Krugman is not only an intellectual midget, but he is also an extremely immoral person. Only the NYT would hire such a flake.

proconstitution on December 21, 2009 at 7:52 PM

Another racist waste of skin.

CurtZHP on December 21, 2009 at 7:56 PM

Krugman is a political hack. His columns rarely, if ever, reflect any fresh insight… and when they do, he manages to present it in the tired, old, partisan terms that are the signature of the left.
Like anything else coming from the Times: not worth reading.

n0doz on December 21, 2009 at 8:08 PM

I still think the filibuster in its current form is ridiculous. Sure, I think debate should continue until all that should be said is said; all points are made and rebutted. But currently they don’t debate, they just vote whether or not debate has ended and then they move on to other business. Even if the congress-folk go home, rather than actually debate, no other business should be done until the body’s president puts the question.

Jens on December 21, 2009 at 8:13 PM

To be a liberal seems to mean that means and methods gladly used against others are a kind of moral crime if used against their own selves.

I am not sure that is exactly the definition of good character.

Horatius on December 21, 2009 at 8:18 PM

He reminds me of my high school biology teacher. I bet he stores crumbs in that beard and is to not be trusted .

CWforFreedom on December 21, 2009 at 8:18 PM

Incidentally, I think the filibuster an inspired piece of genius and one that should be written into the Constitution.

Horatius on December 21, 2009 at 8:20 PM

THIS JUST IN …… Sun rises in East.

The Sun rose in the Eastern sky again this morning for the 85-kajillionth day in a row …..

BD57 on December 21, 2009 at 8:40 PM

How do I top everything that has already been said in the previous comments?

I can’t come up with anything fresh.

Good job folks.

Scoreboard44 on December 21, 2009 at 8:59 PM

I am not sure of the truth of the following statement, to be found over at Townhall, http://townhall.com/blog/.

Update: Oh boy. I’m hearing tonight that the Dems have also slipped in a Senate rule change to require a supermajority vote to repeal Obamacare once its passed… Apparently the Senate parliamentarian ruled that it was a change in Senate “procedure,” not rules, and allowed it.

I have no problem with the filibuster. I have a problem with this rule, as well as the fact that the parliamentarian is apparently now partisan, and if so, needs to be replaced (and in general there needs to be a third house of the Congress, appointed by the States, to oversee a Congress that will not follow its own rules).

You know, in addition, I am tired of the Democrats in a way that goes beyond description. So I will simply say this: We have a choice. We can either all play by the rules, realizing that sometimes we just will not get our way–or we can all bring the structure tumbling down, and hopefully pieces can be put back together later. Right now, we are heading to option number two (though it is not a certainty we will get there–but since I am convinced my side would eventually win such a tumble, if it happens, I would be sad, but also sanguine).

So by all means, Senate staffers, continue to be too clever by half, for we might end up with far less than could have ever been gained than your clever tricks that betray more than anything else a basic feeling of contempt for everyone but yourselves.

How about you just play by the standard rules instead, huh? Is that such a great sacrifice to ask? Because know you well this–for every cause that you think is worth dispelling with procedure and principal for, don’t you think your opponent might have such a cause also? And then where does that lead? Play by the normal rules. It’s better for everyone.

Horatius on December 21, 2009 at 9:22 PM

could have ever been gained than by your clever tricks that betray

Ever since the cutbacks caused the lay-off of the copy editor here at The Daily Horatius, quality control just hasn’t been what it should be….

Horatius on December 21, 2009 at 9:25 PM

Mr. Krugman I’d like to introduce you to my little friend Mr. Louisville Slugger. Time and time again, (please review your notes students); it is NOT the politicains that need to be reminded of whom they represent, its the media pundits that need to understand what objectivity means. I can only hope I have the opportunity to make any-one-of-them see God before they shiite their pants and cry like babies for their Mama…..boom boom out go the lights…..just sayin’

and so it goes…………….pop-pop-fizz-fizz (you know the rest don’t you)

dmann on December 21, 2009 at 9:36 PM

Krugman is the finest exhibit that demonstrates that liberalism is truly a mental illness. In the 1940′s people like him would be committed. He still should be but as the Bible says, evil must run its course.

wepeople on December 21, 2009 at 10:17 PM

Typical politician. That’s all I have to say.

Dark-Star on December 22, 2009 at 12:18 AM

Use every tool possible to grind this government takeover to a halt.

Do exactly what the Democrats did for the last 8 years.

scotash on December 22, 2009 at 2:14 AM

That picture up front, of Krugman, resembles the devil himself. Schadenfreude on December 21, 2009 at 6:12 PM

Looks just like every devil I’ve ever seen.

Akzed on December 22, 2009 at 2:05 PM