CBO to declare $130 billion in deficit savings over first 10 years?

posted at 12:04 pm on December 19, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

Does this give Harry Reid the win?

One Democratic official said an analysis by the Congressional Budget Office to be released later Saturday would estimate a deficit savings of more than $130 billion over 10 years, and the possibility of much more in the subsequent decade.

Forecasters said the bill would expand coverage to roughly 94 percent of eligible Americans under age 65, a total that excludes illegal immigrants. The official who described the conclusions spoke on condition of anonymity, saying he lacked authorization to pre-empt the release of the report.

With Nelson’s decision, Obama’s Senate allies appear on track to pass the legislation by Christmas, overcoming unanimous Republican opposition and a swirling early winter snowstorm.

“This bill is a legislative train wreck of historic proportions,” Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky said. He said it includes cuts to Medicare, home health care and hospices as well as “massive tax increases” at a time of double-digit unemployment.

We’ll need to see the actual CBO score.  In the absence of full legislative language — the CBO had been working from a draft of a “managers’ amendment” — the final verdict will have to come later.  However, if the CBO actually predicts larger deficit savings in the second decade, Reid is not likely to have too many more hurdles to get to his final floor vote.

That depends on a couple of points, however.  As HA reader Geoff A notes, Congress will actually have to follow through on its $500 billion in Medicare cuts.  The CMMS, Medicare’s actuary, sounded very skeptical of that in earlier analyses.  It will also remain to be seen whether the CBO scored the so-called “doctor fix” that rescinded cuts to Medicare compensation as part of this bill.  All of the Democratic scoring has relied on leaving those cuts in place — and then changing them later, which eliminates any deficit savings and puts ObamaCare back in the red.

The last hurdle might be the toughest, though.  If the House does not adopt the Senate version in toto, then both chambers will have to vote on the conference report.  And that may wind up creating all of the same problems all over again.

Update: Here’s the CBO letter, thanks again to Patriot Room:

12 19 Reid Letter Managers

I’m reading it now, and will have thoughts on it later.

Update II: Well, on page 10, CBO assumes some pretty hefty cuts in Medicare compensations. It cuts $186 billion from “most services” in the first 10 years, reducing Medicare Advantage payments by $118 billion, and payments to hospitals from both Medicare and Medicaid by $43 billion. It also includes a big rationing agency for Medicare:

The legislation would also include an Independent Payment Advisory Board, which would be required, under certain circumstances, to recommend changes to the Medicare program to limit the rate of growth in that program’s spending.

This is less of an issue without having the government competing with insurance companies, but it’s a rationing board nonetheless.

Update III: Lots of gimmicks remain, as another reader explains:

1) They just went whole hog on the physician payment gimmick — previous version said they’d allow the higher payments, then (unrealistically) allow for a cut afterward. This time they’re not even bothering with that gimmick — they’re pretending that the physician payments will go down by 21% in 2010, even though everyone knows that won’t happen. In other words, they squeezed more “savings” by extending the gimmick further. That will actually increase the cost of a parallel “doctor fix” bill.

2) Medicare payroll tax increase in the November legislation was 0.5% — this time around it’s 0.9% — they nearly doubled the rate of the increase.

Brian Faughnan also notes that the CBO won’t throw a flag on Congress if it reneges on these cuts, either.

Blowback

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Comment pages: 1 2

There’s just no way. Unless they plan on everybody over mid sixies dying. This bill should die just on its ambiguity and bullcrap.

ORconservative on December 19, 2009 at 12:08 PM

Cuts in Medicare? Never happen.

Asher on December 19, 2009 at 12:08 PM

yeah right. Are Unions really going to along with the tax on benefits?

rob verdi on December 19, 2009 at 12:08 PM

It will also remain to be seen whether the CBO scored the so-called “doctor fix” that rescinded cuts to Medicare compensation as part of this bill.

After listening to Fox News five minutes ago, my impression is that the doctor fix has been excised from the health-care bill and will be addressed separately.

Dishonest to say the least.

BuckeyeSam on December 19, 2009 at 12:08 PM

It will also remain to be seen whether the CBO scored the so-called “doctor fix” that rescinded cuts to Medicare compensation as part of this bill.

According to FNC’s Jim Angel (sp?), the doctor fix is out because they needed money to pay off Nebraska.

Buy Danish on December 19, 2009 at 12:08 PM

Here is the CBO estimate:

Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, Incorporating the Manager’s Amendment
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/108xx/doc10868/12-19-Reid_Letter_Managers.pdf

Patriot Vet on December 19, 2009 at 12:08 PM

yeah right. Are Unions really going to along with the tax on benefits?

rob verdi on December 19, 2009 at 12:08 PM

Look for grandfathered benefits in the bowels of the bill.

BuckeyeSam on December 19, 2009 at 12:09 PM

I guess the CBO score doesn’t take into account the bag of goodies that Nelson sold his soul for.

tru2tx on December 19, 2009 at 12:10 PM

A request: Please post video (or transcript) of McConnell’s response.

Buy Danish on December 19, 2009 at 12:11 PM

This estimate does not include the effects of other amendments adopted during the Senate’s consideration of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act; it also does not reflect an incremental effect on PPACA from Congressional action on H.R. 3326, the Department of Defense Appropriations Act, 2010, which was cleared on November 19, 2009.1

What happens when those things are considered?

Patriot Vet on December 19, 2009 at 12:12 PM

Unbelievable.

becki51758 on December 19, 2009 at 12:12 PM

So if were are to believe this, and I don’t, for the first tem year this will reduce the deficit 130 billion dollars. This is BS one they will never reduce medicare and another reason is that they will spend the 130 billion dollars on something else. The money they are supposed to put in the healthcare account wont be there in 4 years it will be like the SSI account riddled with IOU’S. So this whole CBO thing is just BS.

Brat4life on December 19, 2009 at 12:12 PM

We need to burn this sh** down! Now! These people are like the Japanese kamikaze pilots. They are willingly committing political suicide for their principles. We need to upend the GOP and adopt the Tea Party Platform to stand up to this tide of progressivism that sweeping over this country. We cannot afford RINOs anymore. This new decade will define America forever! Its either we salvage our country or we lose it. THIS IS UNPRECEDENTED! Is there any doubt that these people will follow up and pass cap and trade in the face of their collapsing poll numbers? IF they are willing to die figuratively for their principles, then we better be ready to die literally to salvage this country, because that’s what its going to take to overturn this liberal tide that is going to swamp us!

milemarker2020 on December 19, 2009 at 12:13 PM

Ten years of taxes coming in, and six years of spending going out – I can see how they got the number, but shouldn’t the savings be much bigger under that fake scenario?

Vashta.Nerada on December 19, 2009 at 12:13 PM

Reid already had the win. If passing this bill and being voted out of office by 10% constitutes a “win”.

forest on December 19, 2009 at 12:14 PM

Increased benefits for everyone with 30 million new users added to the list…and that will drop costs?

Only someone as stupid as simplesimon would believe something like that.

Bishop on December 19, 2009 at 12:15 PM

Read the bill in session. Each senator must request this. Drag it out until everyone knows what is really in the bill.

Trusser13 on December 19, 2009 at 12:15 PM

On the bright side, there are multiple groups of kids out knocking on doors and shoveling snow for money in the neighborhood right now. I haven’t seen that in years, and it bodes well for the future.

forest on December 19, 2009 at 12:16 PM

I really want to know if there is something in this bill that says the taxes raised in the first 4 years wont be touched and only be used to pay for healthcare. It’s not going to be in there.

Brat4life on December 19, 2009 at 12:16 PM

Wonder what bribes were offered to the CBO?

Nothing about this nightmarish situation is believable, except for one thing: America is doomed to become a bankrupt, third-world banana republic. What President-for-Life Osama Obama has begun will be completed by the totialitarian thugs in congress.

Nikita Khruschev was right, only it wasn’t the commies in the UUSR who buried us, it was the treasonous enemy within.

MrScribbler on December 19, 2009 at 12:17 PM

Garbage in = garbage out.
They know that all they have to do is pass something. The money starts coming in now..people are worn out on the topic by the time it kicks in 4 years down the road..a couple of years of “working out the bugs”…and by then, the private insurance structure has been destroyed. End game.

ALL tactics to stop it must be used. It must be proved that it is Constitutional. It should be questioned before its implemented, because 4 or 5 years down the road is too late.

Itchee Dryback on December 19, 2009 at 12:19 PM

I literally feel like I just received news of the death of a friend.

Connie on December 19, 2009 at 12:20 PM

The way Fox News just explained it, the CBO numbers are an estimate based on the estimated numbers given to them by Congress. Taking into account that Nelson was paid off like a $2 hooker, the CBO numbers aren’t accurate.

The real cost will be realized in lives lost for lack of healthcare, care cut off for savings, and, yes, more babies murdered in the womb.

madmonkphotog on December 19, 2009 at 12:20 PM

No one remembers that the democrats under Clinton (shudder) castigated republicans for proposed ‘medicare cuts’ and now those same democrats are bragging about cutting medicare by billions of dollars?

Skandia Recluse on December 19, 2009 at 12:21 PM

Remember folks, this will most likely pass the Senate, but it won’t be signed by Obama until 2010. Which means, assuming that they go to conference, it still has to be voted on by both houses again. Which means that, even it it passes, the oppos still have time to burn it into the brains of the electorate what this bill really will DO to them. If the Dems plan on making a suicide pact, make sure that they bear the worst possible consequence, political suicide.

volnation on December 19, 2009 at 12:21 PM

BS; there will be no deficit reduction. How on earth can this be equated to saving money? There is so much in the way of incomplete information out there. How in the name of hell can these fools say they’ll cut a deficit while spending trillions? Simply inconceivable.

ted c on December 19, 2009 at 12:21 PM

Wow.
paraphrase
Coburn: “because of this there is now a lack of confidence in this government that has not been present in this country in 150 years. People have lost confidence in this government and that is a dangerous thing. This is something which undermines the ability of the government to govern this nation.”

elduende on December 19, 2009 at 12:21 PM

MrScribbler on December 19, 2009 at 12:17 PM

CBO scores what it’s sent.

Harry & gang have carefully drafted a bill that deletes certain matters (doctor fix) they know will be added later.
the most CBO can do it note that its estimate does not include the following and list those items. Apparently CBO does not then include an alternate number with the added expenses.

Harry know how to play the CBO game.

Wethal on December 19, 2009 at 12:22 PM

I really want to know if there is something in this bill that says the taxes raised in the first 4 years wont be touched and only be used to pay for healthcare. It’s not going to be in there.

Brat4life on December 19, 2009 at 12:16 PM

Are you kidding me? Google “parking meters+Chicago” and find out what happened when Daley sold that franchise to a private company for $100 million. That money was supposed to last for 75 years and is now gone.

Criminals, all of them.

Knucklehead on December 19, 2009 at 12:22 PM

The depths to which these people will sink is unimaginable. Geez they are such crooks!!!

ultracon on December 19, 2009 at 12:22 PM

Two catches from the CBO score:

1) They now assume that physician payments will be cut by 21%, immediately, in 2010. This makes the gimimck of simultaneously passing the “docfix” physician payment increase even more costly than before.

2) The Medicare payroll tax increase almost doubles in this version — from 0.5% to 0.9% — relative to the November version.

Chuckles3 on December 19, 2009 at 12:23 PM

I still can’t make up my mind as to whether the government has become disgustingly evil or certifiably insane. Either way it needs to be put down.

Guardian on December 19, 2009 at 12:25 PM

No one seems to understand that these democrat ‘cuts’ in medicare funding mean health care providers will be doing more work for less money. It means the government simply refuses to pay the bill, setting prices for services by government fiat.

Try it yourself. Next time at the grocery, fill the cart and when the cashier hands you the bill, tell them you will only pay 80 percent of the total, and see if that works for you.

Skandia Recluse on December 19, 2009 at 12:25 PM

Wonder what bribes were offered to the CBO?
MrScribbler on December 19, 2009 at 12:17 PM

I don’t think any bribes had to be offered.
They are just bean counters. They crunch the numbers that are given to them.
Think Climategate. Garbage in/garbage out. I wish someone could release their email correspondence and “nature tricks”

Itchee Dryback on December 19, 2009 at 12:27 PM

Well of course they can say it will save money. Once you kill off the elderly, handicapped, special needs, terminal, sickly, and unborn….who will be left, but the blond haired, blue eyed…errr liberals!

capejasmine on December 19, 2009 at 12:27 PM

CBO has been comprimised. Meaningless body.

marklmail on December 19, 2009 at 12:28 PM

Does anyone believe that a Democrat will ever reduce the deficit in a serious way that doesn’t involve castrating the military?

Dark Eden on December 19, 2009 at 12:28 PM

FYI,

The CMMS, Medicare’s actuary, sounded very skeptical of that in earlier analyses.

The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services actually goes by the acronym CMS instead of CMMS.

FireDrake on December 19, 2009 at 12:29 PM

Obama borrowed $180B in October and $120B in November.

So if we pass 3 of these bills we’ll have the last 60 days paid for.

Chuck Schick on December 19, 2009 at 12:29 PM

I despair.

Alana on December 19, 2009 at 12:30 PM

This is genocide light. They (Dems) won’t get their hands dirty…they’ll leave it to the doctors, and a panel. But in the end, the blood now, is on their hands.

capejasmine on December 19, 2009 at 12:30 PM

2) The Medicare payroll tax increase almost doubles in this version — from 0.5% to 0.9% — relative to the November version.

Chuckles3 on December 19, 2009 at 12:23 PM

Another expire Obama promise: no on making under 250K would see their taxes rise.

Wethal on December 19, 2009 at 12:31 PM

What happens when those things are considered?

Patriot Vet on December 19, 2009 at 12:12 PM

It renders the findings of this report useless.

thomasaur on December 19, 2009 at 12:32 PM

Hey Senior Citizens, Republicans Democrats want to cut your Medicare, kick you out of your homes and make you decide between getting your medication and eating dog food.

Left Coast Right Mind on December 19, 2009 at 12:32 PM

The legislation would also include an Independent Payment Advisory Board, which would be required, under certain circumstances, to recommend changes to the Medicare program to limit the rate of growth in that program’s spending.

I think they mean Death Panels.

conservative pilgrim on December 19, 2009 at 12:32 PM

How do they score a bill that’s not even finished yet? Well, I’m sure Dingy Harry will put whatever he needs in there to make this thing appear deficit neutral. But nobody is fooled. November 2010 can’t get here soon enough.

AUINSC on December 19, 2009 at 12:32 PM

Wait until the unintended consequences start kicking in. For example, the abortion language doesn’t apply to “Indian Country.”

Most of us know what happens when you hastily cut-and-paste within a letter or some other document. That’s when you really need to proofread carefully and it’s obvious that won’t happen with this monstrosity unless the Republicans can slow the process down.

This is all surreal.

Drained Brain on December 19, 2009 at 12:33 PM

IF there is a revolt against the gov’t spending our money in such ways, how will it be implemented?
Tax boycott…
March on gov’t offices…
A strike against gov’t agencies…
Spam deluge of gov’t web sites…
Any ideas other ideas???

mjbrooks3 on December 19, 2009 at 12:33 PM

2) The Medicare payroll tax increase almost doubles in this version — from 0.5% to 0.9% — relative to the November version.
Chuckles3 on December 19, 2009 at 12:23 PM

What income level does the increase start? Wasn’t it $200k?

Chuck Schick on December 19, 2009 at 12:33 PM

CBO has been comprimised. Meaningless body.

marklmail on December 19, 2009 at 12:28 PM

Yeah, it’s like having ACORN in charge of counting votes.

Oh wait . . .

conservative pilgrim on December 19, 2009 at 12:33 PM

China’s State Administration of Foreign Exchange reaffirmed this month that the dollar stands secure as the anchor of the currency reserves it manages, even as the country seeks to diversify its investments.

In a discussion on the global role of the dollar, Zhu told an academic audience that it was inevitable that the dollar would continue to fall in value because Washington continued to issue more Treasuries to finance its deficit spending.

He then addressed where demand for that debt would come from.

“The United States cannot force foreign governments to increase their holdings of Treasuries,” Zhu said, according to an audio recording of his remarks. “Double the holdings? It is definitely impossible.”

“The US current account deficit is falling as residents’ savings increase, so its trade turnover is falling, which means the US is supplying fewer dollars to the rest of the world,” he added. “The world does not have so much money to buy more US Treasuries.”

China continues to see its foreign exchange reserves grow, albeit at a slower pace than in past years, due to a large trade surplus and inflows of foreign investment. They stood at US$2.3 trillion at the end of September.House

Drudge link.

Chuck Schick, we can only borrow money if someone buys T bills. Will Helicopter Ben keep printing money for the Fed to buy T-bills? Japan is buying fewer, and now China seems to be backing off.

Wethal on December 19, 2009 at 12:34 PM

elduende on December 19, 2009 at 12:21 PM

That is also part of the NeoMarxists plan…to break the spirit of the wild stallion that is the heart of the American people. Don’t let it happen. Kick back.

Itchee Dryback on December 19, 2009 at 12:34 PM

More information on abortion and “Indian Country at The Corner.

Drained Brain on December 19, 2009 at 12:35 PM

How do they score a bill that’s not even finished yet? Well, I’m sure Dingy Harry will put whatever he needs in there to make this thing appear deficit neutral. But nobody is fooled. November 2010 can’t get here soon enough.

AUINSC on December 19, 2009 at 12:32 PM

MrScribbler and others have posed this thought—-

How do we know the Dems haven’t inserted unconstitutional language regarding elections and voting? How do we know they have ensured their reelection, regardless of the final tally?

conservative pilgrim on December 19, 2009 at 12:36 PM

No one seems to understand that these democrat ‘cuts’ in medicare funding mean health care providers will be doing more work for less money. It means the government simply refuses to pay the bill, setting prices for services by government fiat.

Skandia Recluse on December 19, 2009 at 12:25 PM

Which will result in scarcity and less available health care for the populace.

But when the inevitable laws of supply and demand kick in, the government will be there to attack those “evil providers”.

PackerBronco on December 19, 2009 at 12:38 PM

What total bullsh1t.

I’m so disgusted right now; honestly, nothing but violence is going to stop this nonsense.

Midas on December 19, 2009 at 12:38 PM

CBO has been comprimised. Meaningless body.

marklmail on December 19, 2009 at 12:28 PM

Meaningful meaningless….same thing these days

/

CWforFreedom on December 19, 2009 at 12:39 PM

I realize that Reid is tweaking the bill in order to get manipulated output from the CBO out of a desperate need for this bill to appear deficit neutral, but the whole thing strikes as very Alinskyesque.

It’s undermining confidence in the very system itself. If we can’t trust the numbers data on the bills, how can we trust anything else?

BadgerHawk on December 19, 2009 at 12:39 PM

How do we know the Dems haven’t inserted unconstitutional language regarding elections and voting? How do we know they have ensured their reelection, regardless of the final tally?

conservative pilgrim on December 19, 2009 at 12:36 PM

That’s why DeMint is supposedly having everything read out loud. I doubt they’d stick in election stuff that is blatantly unconstitutional (Ok, the individual mandate probably is), but they do sneak in unrelated stuff.

Wethal on December 19, 2009 at 12:48 PM

This is a national travesty! Not one Republican is going to vote for this crazy reform! And no Republican better not vote for this piece of crap! We need to understand that the GOP no longer represent us. The Tea Party needs to replace the GOP. We need a Tea Party Platform of Reform and candidates who sign their name to it. We need real reform, not go along to get along tax cuts that expire! We need real tax reform, real budget reform, real immigration reform. We need to get REAL! We need to be willing to die for our principles and go further than the Dems are willing to go. They are willingly committing political suicide for their once and a lifetime chance to push through the liberal agenda! There is no doubt in my mind that they will pass immigration “reform” (amnesty) and Cap and Trade! There is no doubt about it! We need leaders that will go to Washington with the balls to overturn all of this or else we will lose our country this next decade!

milemarker2020 on December 19, 2009 at 12:50 PM

BadgerHawk on December 19, 2009 at 12:39 PM

They don’t care about trust. It’s about control.

Once they grab control of most of the economy, they don’t give a hoot about trust. The IRS and other agenices will enforce compliance. Enough of the electorate will be on government benefits that the Dems will not be voted out of office.

Wethal on December 19, 2009 at 12:51 PM

That’s why DeMint is supposedly having everything read out loud
BadgerHawk on December 19, 2009 at 12:39 PM

Sorry, I’m late to the game, but when does this reading stuff start? All 2,000 pages?

Knucklehead on December 19, 2009 at 12:51 PM

This is how it feels to live in Venezuela.

No control over your destiny. A feeling of helplessness. Of slowly being enslaved.

What the majority of the nation wants is irrelevant. All that matters is the government’s power and control.

They will dictate to you and your family what to buy, when, and how much you will pay and how they will punish you and your family if you don’t submit. This is what authoritarianism is.

I know this is a new sensation for Americans but for those that know, this is what tyranny feels like.

Welcome to tyranny.

elduende on December 19, 2009 at 12:54 PM

Sorry, I’m late to the game, but when does this reading stuff start? All 2,000 pages?

Knucklehead on December 19, 2009 at 12:51 PM

Now they’re reading Harry’s manager’s amendment. I think the full bill would be read sometime early next week. Final cloture vote scheduled for around 7 pm Thursday night.

Wethal on December 19, 2009 at 12:58 PM

Both right and left are outraged. Differing reasons, but the same outrage.

The savings comes from introducing taxes before benefits, which is truly radical and different.

It’s just a tax, in my opinion. Wrapped in a promise.

AnninCA on December 19, 2009 at 12:58 PM

That CBO report has an awful lot of “uncertainties”.

I’m sure all those with “Cadillac Health Plans” will continue to keep them and just pay the higher taxes.

Hahahahahahaha!!

GarandFan on December 19, 2009 at 1:00 PM

The savings comes from introducing taxes before benefits, which is truly radical and different.

It’s just a tax, in my opinion. Wrapped in a promise.

AnninCA on December 19, 2009 at 12:58 PM

It’s the same thing FDR did with Social Security, it’s not new, radical or different from any other progressive ideas that are coming out of DC.

thomasaur on December 19, 2009 at 1:01 PM

It’s undermining confidence in the very system itself. If we can’t trust the numbers data on the bills, how can we trust anything else?

BadgerHawk on December 19, 2009 at 12:39 PM

Yes. You know the Dems have run our legislative process amok, when Bob Schieffer says this:

BOB SCHIEFFER, to Katie Couric, on last night’s “CBS Evening News”: “No one can say exactly what’s in it, how much it’s going to cost. What we’re hearing and seeing here tonight, Katie, is the legislative process at its worst.”

conservative pilgrim on December 19, 2009 at 1:02 PM

Remember folks, this will most likely pass the Senate, but it won’t be signed by Obama until 2010. Which means, assuming that they go to conference, it still has to be voted on by both houses again. Which means that, even it it passes, the oppos still have time to burn it into the brains of the electorate what this bill really will DO to them. If the Dems plan on making a suicide pact, make sure that they bear the worst possible consequence, political suicide.volnation on December 19, 2009 at 12:21 PM

I wouldn\’t count on that. Pelosi and Reid will move heaven and earth now to get a bill to Obama’s desk in time for the State of the Union. In fact, the White House will delay the SOTU a few days or weeks if necessary for Obama to trumpet his “huge and historic achievement” to gales of standing ovations from the Democrats. This President has been such an Epic Fail so far that thery have to produce something for him by the SOTU, even if it bears no actual resemblance to what Obama campaigned on or what was introduced earlier this year.

rockmom on December 19, 2009 at 1:02 PM

You can’t tell me that adding 100 plus agencies/bureaucracies will end up reducing the deficit. I want some of whatever the CBO is drinkin’ or smokin’.

TXUS on December 19, 2009 at 1:02 PM

but they do sneak in unrelated stuff.

Wethal on December 19, 2009 at 12:48 PM

Yeah, like trying to sneak the Akaka Bill in the Defense Appropriations Bill.

conservative pilgrim on December 19, 2009 at 1:04 PM

Yes. You know the Dems have run our legislative process amok, when Bob Schieffer says this:

BOB SCHIEFFER, to Katie Couric, on last night’s “CBS Evening News”: “No one can say exactly what’s in it, how much it’s going to cost. What we’re hearing and seeing here tonight, Katie, is the legislative process at its worst.”

conservative pilgrim on December 19, 2009 at 1:02 PM

Yet the same people will hail Obama’s “historic achievement” the second it passes.

This isn’t about what’s in the bill any longer or the process by which it is produced. It’s about saving Obama’s ass by producing anything that can get 60 votes in the Senate. And that is all the Guard Dog Media will report on when it’s done.

I’m going to start drinking heavily now.

rockmom on December 19, 2009 at 1:05 PM

I guess they found a way to pay off the CBO too.

Socmodfiscon on December 19, 2009 at 1:05 PM

. And that is all the Guard Lap Dog Media will report on when it’s done.

I’m going to start drinking heavily now.

rockmom on December 19, 2009 at 1:05 PM

thomasaur on December 19, 2009 at 1:07 PM

rockmom on December 19, 2009 at 1:02 PM

GOP needs to get up and walk out of the SOTU en masse if this passes.

elduende on December 19, 2009 at 1:07 PM

It’s about saving Obama’s ass by producing anything that can get 60 votes in the Senate. And that is all the Guard Dog Media will report on when it’s done.

rockmom on December 19, 2009 at 1:05 PM

Sadly, this is true. Obama will gloat and gloat and gloat in the SOTU speech.

Up is down, down is up, etc……

conservative pilgrim on December 19, 2009 at 1:09 PM

GOP needs to get up and walk out of the SOTU en masse if this passes.

elduende on December 19, 2009 at 1:07 PM

EN MASSE when Obama tells his first lie. Can we take bets on how long that will take?

conservative pilgrim on December 19, 2009 at 1:10 PM

Well, on page 10, CBO assumes some pretty hefty cuts in Medicare compensations. It cuts $186 billion from “most services” in the first 10 years, reducing Medicare Advantage payments by $118 billion, and payments to hospitals from both Medicare and Medicaid by $43 billion

Well Fox is reporting that the deal Nelson cut with Reid means Nebraska will never, ever have to pay taxes on Medicaid.

Where does that figure into this mess?

Knucklehead on December 19, 2009 at 1:11 PM

You can’t tell me that adding 100 plus agencies/bureaucracies will end up reducing the deficit. I want some of whatever the CBO is drinkin’ or smokin’.
TXUS on December 19, 2009 at 1:02 PM

No you don’t. Take one look at simplesimon and crr6 to see the long term effects. *shudder*

Bishop on December 19, 2009 at 1:11 PM

conservative pilgrim on December 19, 2009 at 1:10 PM

the moment his lips start flapping it’ll be a lie.

elduende on December 19, 2009 at 1:12 PM

I find the number one outrage to be Nelson’s payoff. Then the fact that they are working on a bill that really doesn’t even exist in its final form.
Washington is a swamp. I have never been so disgusted.

ORconservative on December 19, 2009 at 1:12 PM

“Does this give Harry Reid the win?”

Actually this gives Obowma the win, sadly. This entire exercise is about The One’s legacy, nothing else.

The question I have is can this be unwound with a new Congress and president?

FireBlogger on December 19, 2009 at 1:18 PM

Reminds me of the phrase “$19.95 plus shipping and handling.”

Welcome to Harry Reid’s Shell Game.

fogw on December 19, 2009 at 1:24 PM

This is absurd. It is still unconstitutional. Still a massive power grab. Will still raise taxes, fees, and premiums for everyone. In short, it’s still an loser of a bill.

DerKrieger on December 19, 2009 at 1:24 PM

The question I have is can this be unwound with a new Congress and president?

FireBlogger on December 19, 2009 at 1:18 PM

Only if there are 60 GOP senators. Otherwise the Dems would filibuster and a GOP House and president couldn’t do much about it. And 60 GOP assumes no RINOs.

Wethal on December 19, 2009 at 1:24 PM

Great! No reason not to vote for the pos bill now. Go ahead make our day. Remember Prohibition was repealed so it is possible to get rid of this thing after next year. The only thing is the taxes start in ’10

Kissmygrits on December 19, 2009 at 1:25 PM

Representative Guttierrez of Chicago has announced he will introduce immigration reform in February. He plans to make 12 million illegals into permanent residents. So first they pass health care with no coverage for illegals, then they make the illegals legal.

4thQTR on December 19, 2009 at 1:29 PM

The question I have is can this be unwound with a new Congress and president?
FireBlogger on December 19, 2009 at 1:18 PM

I would say, hopefully but you know what’s going to happen if that monstrosity does pass – the NSM will hail it as the greatest thing since sliced bread.

It will be as if the messiah himself returned to bestow a fantastic gift on the peoples of this country.

They will do that to build all kinds of momentum for it – complete with polls that miraculously show overwhelming support for it.

This despite the fact that it won’t bestow it’s “Benefits” for several years while at the same time burdening a straining economy with even more debt.

“I’ve got a really bad feeling about this”

Juno77 on December 19, 2009 at 1:31 PM

Of course they’re right. There’s a whole raft of economic maxims that say

the more money you spend, the more money you save

and

if you spend more money than you have, you have the money you spent, and

nobody can force the Federal Government to declare bankruptcy, since it is too big to fail, and, last but not least,

deficits are balanced on the backs of the rest of the world’s workers

How does it feel, China, as we legislate that you will help us pay for our healthcare? I bet World Communism feels real good right now, doesn’t it?

unclesmrgol on December 19, 2009 at 1:33 PM

Right in front of the nation, Reid bribed Mary Landrieu with $300 million, Bill Nelson with a special Medicare cut exemption for 3 Florida (and Democratic) counties, and Ben Nelson with another few hundred million. This is open corruption.
How many more bribes are yet to be discovered ?

4thQTR on December 19, 2009 at 1:34 PM

Hey! I just found another upside. I understand that the IRS will “fine” me $750 for not having insurance. I also understand that I can get insurance any time and cannot be denied.

Let me do the math…. Currently pay $500 per month for $4,000 deductible plan. That’s $6,000 per year. Let me see… $4,000 minus $750 is $3,3250 per year savings. I only have to have insurance when I get really really sick. Then, I go get insured and let Uncle Sugar pick up the tab for the big bucks. The rest of the time, I simply tack on $750 to what I send the IRS each year….. Not bad. I can afford more fuel for offshore fishing.

Great! I love this ObamaCare stuff.

Oh, and that pesky increase in Medicare tax… I work for myself so I’ll just reduce my salary by whatever it takes and, as usual, take the rest of my income as a distribution.

Suck on it liberals….

CC

CapedConservative on December 19, 2009 at 1:38 PM

How kind of the noblesse oblige to force everyone to pay for what will probably be almost worthless medical coverage. Remember what happened when the “smart” people running Medicaid imposed severe and strict restrictions on medical coverage and payments? How many physicians won’t accept Medicaid patients today because Medicaid doesn’t even cover the cost of the paperwork involved much less actual treatment? Coming to you in the near future – a two tiered healthcare system for, minimum, twice the price. Private hospitals in Europe are thriving. Wonder why?

MayorDaley on December 19, 2009 at 1:39 PM

How does it feel, China, as we legislate that you will help us pay for our healthcare? I bet World Communism feels real good right now, doesn’t it?
unclesmrgol on December 19, 2009 at 1:33 PM

Harder to buy US Treasuries

“The US current account deficit is falling as residents’ savings increase, so its trade turnover is falling, which means the US is supplying fewer dollars to the rest of the world,” he added. “The world does not have so much money to buy more US Treasuries.”

Juno77 on December 19, 2009 at 1:39 PM

Correction! $6,000 minus $750…. $5,250… Even More Money in MY POCKET! Yipee!

Suck on it even more liberals…

CC

CapedConservative on December 19, 2009 at 1:39 PM

This is open corruption. With our money. Not that that’s new.
I am almost done with Michelle M’s book. I really hope there is a sequel, and soon. The more light on these cockroaches the better.
There could be an appropriate sequel every year at the rate this congress and administration is going.

ORconservative on December 19, 2009 at 1:39 PM

Yeah, the Democrats have this insane notion that once the bill is passed, so many people will be dependent upon it that it will never be repealed. It’s a policy which has worked in the past, BUT this bill is only collecting taxes for the first 4 years and paying NO benefits at all during that time. Nobody will be “hooked” on just paying taxes, so there is indeed time to repeal.
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The problem is the upheaval this will cause in the insurance and health care industries before we can repeal it.

Adjoran on December 19, 2009 at 1:42 PM

Details, details. More of the stage craft that the Dems/public love. Everyone from the President down knows that this steaming pile will cost trillions.

The dirty little secret in DC is that the repubs hope that this bill with Cap and trade to follow will get them back the House, Senate and the Presidency. The dirty secret part is that they will be more than happy to administer control over 26% of the US economy. Dem or repub the key is central control. A politician’s first goal is election.

Never forget that it was the Repubs that gave us the ethanol and prescription drug boondoggles capped off with the bridge to nowhere. Most of that leadership is still around.

patrick neid on December 19, 2009 at 1:43 PM

Who will be left to applaud this if this passes? Almost everyone hates it! Left, right and center are furious! And if the lame stream media try to pass it off as a win, it will only further corrode their miniscule credibility.

parteagirl on December 19, 2009 at 1:44 PM

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