Video: Sanders breaks Senate rule by ending reading of his giant amendment

At some point as we are watching our hard fought for republic being destroyed at a perciptice rate, one does begin to wonder where we are e4xpected to draw the line. Using swamprat as a base line, one could easily envision getting banned merely quoting the words of our founding fathers, quite easily actually.

The irony of such an occurence happening on HA cannot escape your notice. Surely quoting the likes of Jefferson, Adams, or countless others should not result in a banning on a site such as HA, should it?

Archimedes on December 16, 2009 at 8:07 PM

This reminds me of something I had thought of before. We fought a revolutionary war to be free from a king, but given the distance and technology of the day how onerous could his rule have been? The taxes were high, but that much higher than they are today? My point is if the people alive in 1776 were alive today would they already be at war with the federal government? I’m risking a ban hammer, but I’m just curious how we stack up with them? Would they view us as a bunch of sheep who should have taken action long ago, or would they agree with AP and punish anyone who mentioned violence?

DFCtomm on December 16, 2009 at 9:23 PM

Here is some interesting reading about events that led up to the Revolutionary War. I’m still looking for a rough idea of what level of personal taxes the colonists were paying.

1732
* George Washington is born in Virginia
* Benjamin Franklin publishes Poor Richard’s Almanac, containing weather predictions, humor, proverbs and epigrams, selling nearly 10,000 copies per year.

1739

* England declares war on Spain. As a result, in America, hostilities break out between Florida Spaniards and Georgia and South Carolina colonists.

1750

* The Iron Act is passed by the English Parliament, limiting the growth of the iron industry in the American colonies to protect the English Iron industry.

1751

* The Currency Act is passed by the English Parliament, banning the issuing of paper money by the New England colonies.

1754

* The French and Indian War erupts as a result of disputes over land in the Ohio River Valley. In May, George Washington leads a small group of American colonists to victory over the French, then builds Fort Necessity in the Ohio territory. In July, after being attacked by numerically superior French forces, Washington surrenders the fort and retreats.

1755

* In February, English General Edward Braddock arrives in Virginia with two regiments of English troops. Gen. Braddock assumes the post of commander in chief of all English forces in America. In April, Gen. Braddock and Lt. Col. George Washington set out with nearly 2000 men to battle the French in the Ohio territory. In July, a force of about 900 French and Indians defeat those English forces. Braddock is mortally wounded. Massachusetts Governor William Shirley then becomes the new commander in chief.

1756

* England declares war on France, as the French and Indian War in the colonies now spreads to Europe.

1760

* George III becomes the new English King.

1763

* The French and Indian War, known in Europe as the Seven Year’s War, ends with the Treaty of Paris. Under the treaty, France gives England all French territory east of the Mississippi River, except New Orleans. The Spanish give up east and west Florida to the English in return for Cuba.
* The Proclamation of 1763, signed by King George III of England, prohibits any English settlement west of the Appalachian mountains and requires those already settled in those regions to return east in an attempt to ease tensions with Native Americans.

1764

* The Sugar Act is passed by the English Parliament to offset the war debt brought on by the French and Indian War and to help pay for the expenses of running the colonies and newly acquired territories. This act increases the duties on imported sugar and other items such as textiles, coffee, wines and indigo (dye). It doubles the duties on foreign goods reshipped from England to the colonies and also forbids the import of foreign rum and French wines.
* The Currency Act prohibits the colonists from issuing any legal tender paper money. This act threatens to destabilize the entire colonial economy of both the industrial North and agricultural South, thus uniting the colonists against it.
* In May, at a town meeting in Boston, James Otis raises the issue of taxation without representation and urges a united response to the recent acts imposed by England. In July, Otis publishes “The Rights of the British Colonies Asserted and Proved.” In August, Boston merchants begin a boycott of British luxury goods.

1765

* In March, the Stamp Act is passed by the English Parliament imposing the first direct tax on the American colonies, to offset the high costs of the British military organization in America. Thus for the first time in the 150 year old history of the British colonies in America, the Americans will pay tax not to their own local legislatures in America, but directly to England.
* Also in March, the Quartering Act requires colonists to house British troops and supply them with food.
* In July, the Sons of Liberty, an underground organization opposed to the Stamp Act, is formed in a number of colonial towns. Its members use violence and intimidation to eventually force all of the British stamp agents to resign and also stop many American merchants from ordering British trade goods.
* On November 1, most daily business and legal transactions in the colonies cease as the Stamp Act goes into effect with nearly all of the colonists refusing to use the stamps. In New York City, violence breaks out as a mob burns the royal governor in effigy, harasses British troops, then loots houses.

1766

* In March, King George III signs a bill repealing the Stamp Act after much debate in the English Parliament, which included an appearance by Ben Franklin arguing for repeal and warning of a possible revolution in the American colonies if the Stamp Act was enforced by the British military.
* On the same day it repealed the Stamp Act, the English Parliament passes the Declaratory Act stating that the British government has total power to legislate any laws governing the American colonies in all cases whatsoever.
* In August, violence breaks out in New York between British soldiers and armed colonists, including Sons of Liberty members. The violence erupts as a result of the continuing refusal of New York colonists to comply with the Quartering Act. In December, the New York legislature is suspended by the English Crown after once again voting to refuse to comply with the Act.

1767

* In June, The English Parliament passes the Townsend Revenue Acts, imposing a new series of taxes on the colonists to offset the costs of administering and protecting the American colonies. Items taxed include imports such as paper, tea, glass, lead and paints. The Act also establishes a colonial board of customs commissioners in Boston. In October, Bostonians decide to reinstate a boycott of English luxury items.

1768

* In May, a British warship armed with 50 cannons sails into Boston harbor after a call for help from custom commissioners who are constantly being harassed by Boston agitators. In June, a customs official is locked up in the cabin of the Liberty, a sloop owned by John Hancock. Imported wine is then unloaded illegally into Boston without payment of duties. Following this incident, customs officials seize Hancock’s sloop. After threats of violence from Bostonians, the customs officials escape to an island off Boston, then request the intervention of British troops.
* In July, the governor of Massachusetts dissolves the general court after the legislature defies his order to revoke Adams’ circular letter. In August, in Boston and New York, merchants agree to boycott most British goods until the Townsend Acts are repealed. In September, at a town meeting in Boston, residents are urged to arm themselves. Later in September, English warships sail into Boston Harbor, then two regiments of English infantry land in Boston and set up permanent residence to keep order.

1769

* In March, merchants in Philadelphia join the boycott of British trade goods. In May, a set of resolutions written by George Mason is presented by George Washington to the Virginia House of Burgesses. The Virginia Resolves oppose taxation without representation, the British opposition to the circular letters, and British plans to possibly send American agitators to England for trial. Ten days later, the Royal governor of Virginia dissolves the House of Burgesses. However, its members meet the next day in a Williamsburg tavern and agree to a boycott of British trade goods, luxury items and slaves.

1770

* The Boston Massacre occurs as a mob harasses British soldiers who then fire their muskets pointblank into the crowd, killing three instantly, mortally wounding two others and injuring six. After the incident, the new Royal Governor of Massachusetts, Thomas Hutchinson, at the insistence of Sam Adams, withdraws British troops out of Boston to nearby harbor islands. The captain of the British soldiers, Thomas Preston, is then arrested along with eight of his men and charged with murder.
* In April, the Townshend Acts are repealed by the British. All duties on imports into the colonies are eliminated except for tea. Also, the Quartering Act is not renewed.
* In October, trial begins for the British soldiers arrested after the Boston Massacre. Colonial lawyers John Adams and Josiah Quincy successfully defend Captain Preston and six of his men, who are acquitted. Two other soldiers are found guilty of manslaughter, branded, then released.

1773

* May 10, the Tea Act takes effect. It maintains a threepenny per pound import tax on tea arriving in the colonies, which had already been in effect for six years. It also gives the near bankrupt British East India Company a virtual tea monopoly by allowing it to sell directly to colonial agents, bypassing any middlemen, thus underselling American merchants. The East India Company had successfully lobbied Parliament for such a measure. In September, Parliament authorizes the company to ship half a million pounds of tea to a group of chosen tea agents.
* About 8000 Bostonians gather to hear Sam Adams tell them Royal Governor Hutchinson has repeated his command not to allow the ships out of the harbor until the tea taxes are paid. That night, the Boston Tea Party occurs as colonial activists disguise themselves as Mohawk Indians then board the ships and dump all 342 containers of tea into the harbor.

DFCtomm on December 16, 2009 at 9:52 PM

What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”

– Letter from T. Jefferson to Col. William S. Smith, Paris, November 13, 1787

“Let them take arms.” Now THAT was some statesmanship! :)

voxpopuli on December 16, 2009 at 10:22 PM

You’ll never hear that anywhere in public today.

DFCtomm on December 16, 2009 at 10:47 PM

You bring up a good point about the question of whether or not the taxation level was truly onerous–and it probably wasn’t, per se (with the caveat that a 5% tax in 1763 is far far far more significant than a 25% tax rate in 2009–because a.) there was a lot less cash money floating around, and b.) people in general lived a lot closer to the edge, in general. Go take a look at a plantation house like Stratford–it really isn’t that big compared to a McMansion today–and that was only what the most wealthy lived in.

I did a paper on this once, and I think the real cause of the discontent was not the “taxation” part, but the “no reprensentation” portion. Basically, the Founding Generation had the number of the ruling class in England, and what they feared was that if they lost the ability to influence their own destinies via colonial legislatures, then eventually they would end up like Ireland, victims of a corrupt political class ruling from afar who set up cronies to benefit from the largesse of government appointments.

I would say that taxes had a great deal to do with it. They didn’t have the safety nets or government backed(don’t laugh) retirement we have today. I think every penny would have been precious to a smart person.

So, in other words, pretty much exactly like today. Except now we can change the government peacefully, which is what is going to happen now. But only because we are willing to stand firm. In 1774, they did not have that option, and fearful of what the future may have brought, they acted. In essence, the colonists knew they had a good thing going–that they had the ability to be far more prosperous than if they had been in England at an equivalent station, and they intended to keep it.

Horatius on December 16, 2009 at 10:05 PM

Do you think we may be facing a new kind of tyranny? A tyranny of the poor, and I forget who said that, as we reach %50 of the population that doesn’t contribute? Won’t that lock taxpayers into a taxation without representation scenario?

DFCtomm on December 16, 2009 at 10:54 PM