Oh my: Kill the bill, says … Howard Dean
posted at 4:10 pm on December 15, 2009 by Allahpundit
The only thing that can save us from final passage now is the insane bitterness of “principled liberals” at seeing their dream of true socialized medicine smashed. Help us, Dean-o, you’re our only hope!
The gauntlet from Dean — whose voice on health care is well respsected among liberals — will energize those on the left who are mobilizing against the bill, and make it tougher for liberals to embrace the emerging proposal. In an excerpt Kinzel gave me, Dean says:
“This is essentially the collapse of health care reform in the United States Senate. Honestly the best thing to do right now is kill the Senate bill, go back to the House, start the reconciliation process, where you only need 51 votes and it would be a much simpler bill.”…
Dean had previously endorsed the Medicare buy-in compromise without a public option, saying that the key question should be whether the bill contains enough “real reform” to be worthy of progressives’ support. Dean has apparently concluded that the “real reform” has been removed at Lieberman’s behest — which won’t make it easier for liberals to swallow the emerging compromise.
That makes two leading nutroots lights to come out against the bill since the Medicare compromise was dropped. I’m skeptical that there are any Senate liberals willing to be the 41st vote against cloture — Burris made some noise this morning about demanding a public option, although even his language was qualified — but there’s a huge bloc of House progressives that will take this under careful advisement. Remember, Pelosi’s bill only passed by five votes; the more momentum there is on the left for the idea that Reid’s bill is a grand sellout, the more precarious this gets. No wonder Democratic pundits were rushing out pieces this morning urging liberals to take the deal.
As for Dean-o’s point about reconciliation, after all the damage this process has done to Democrats among independents, the left’s big vote-winning plan now is to have Reid … cram the public option down America’s throats using an arcane parliamentary procedure? With Lieberman, Nelson, Lincoln, Bayh, Pryor, and possibly one or two other Blue Dogs screaming “no way”? We may have actually reached the point where true-believin’ progressive ObamaCare supporters are so desperate to have their dream bill that they’re willing to trade the House majority for it. Which is well and good, but someone had better let Pelosi know pronto.
Update: It’s popcorn time, kids.
Democratic votes may stay home from the polls in retribution for Congress failing at health reform, a top liberal lawmaker said Tuesday.
Rep. Lynn Woolsey (D-Calif.), the co-chairwoman of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, said that members of the Democratic Party’s base “aren’t even going to go to the polls if they don’t have a public option.”…
“I don’t see what we’ve accomplished,” Woolsey said. “If we were going to have insurance reform, we could have done that very simply. If we don’t have a public option and at the very least we don’t have a Medicare buy in then we aren’t offering any competition to the insurance industry.”
She says she doesn’t know if she could vote for Reid’s bill.









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Incompetent.
portlandon on December 15, 2009 at 4:13 PM
Howard Dean.
I know he’s a Doctor.
I suspect he may be intelligent.
Just that – he’s such an asshole – I can’t read or care about anything the jagoff has to say.
jake-the-goose on December 15, 2009 at 4:14 PM
Kill the Bill – A bipartisan slogan that at this point probably have support of 80% of the American people.
Norwegian on December 15, 2009 at 4:14 PM
It sure would, Norwegian.
And that I could live with.
Bob's Kid on December 15, 2009 at 4:15 PM
Aaaaarrrrgggghhh.
LASue on December 15, 2009 at 4:15 PM
Howard Dean.
I know he’s a Doctor
I suspect he may be intelligent.
Problem is – he’s such a jagoff – I don’t care or want to read anything he has to say.
jake-the-goose on December 15, 2009 at 4:15 PM
More popcorn, Burris is also going to hold out.
Knucklehead on December 15, 2009 at 4:15 PM
Wonderful.
Revenant on December 15, 2009 at 4:16 PM
“Arcane parliamentary procedure.” You mean, like a filibuster?
Sounds good to me. Nelson and a couple others could protect themselves by voting against it. Lieberman and Snowe could be safely ignored and we’d still get a bill with a public option or Medicare buy-in. Happy New Year!
I wonder if they could do that with whatever comes out of conference.
Bleeds Blue on December 15, 2009 at 4:16 PM
A cheap sitcom atempt to make it seem “oh not so bad if they hate it”. Good cop Bad cop.
Marcus on December 15, 2009 at 4:16 PM
If the Dems won’t even listen to their own constituents, what the hell makes any of us think that they’ll listen to Howard Dean? His Oneness is the piper holding the pie, and he’s piping away with his siren songs as these Senators steer their ships into the fricking rocks.
go ahead, play them another tune obama. The American people oppose your bill and nothing you play is going to change that.
ted c on December 15, 2009 at 4:16 PM
Crap, the stock market is closed for the day. I’m not going to be buying any popcorn, but I’ll buy into the company that makes it. Does anyone here know the ticker symbol for Orville Redenbacher?
booter on December 15, 2009 at 4:16 PM
Ok, it’s time to vote.
If this bill fails to pass, then the progressives can start over in the house with their reconciliation trick.
Skandia Recluse on December 15, 2009 at 4:16 PM
This is so sweet it must be against the law, like not having insurance
orfannkyl on December 15, 2009 at 4:17 PM
They have to pass something even if it’s just handing out free aspirin at clinics. Slap the “Healthcare Reform” name on it and get the photo op of the President signing it.
Promise the lefties that they’ll “fix it” later.
I still think they’ll slap something together to make it look like they accomplished something.
SteveMG on December 15, 2009 at 4:17 PM
This puzzles me. If no bill at all passes the Senate, what, exactly, are they “reconciling?”
I thought the reconciliation process was to bring two different versions of the same bill into line with each other.
How do you “reconcile” something with nothing?
notropis on December 15, 2009 at 4:17 PM
Kill this, and start over. It’s very simple. Implement competition, by letting everyone buy insurance across state lines, and enforce some torte reform. For Gods sake, this could be soooooooo simple, but then …..good ideas, that would help millions, and save money on all sides doesn’t jive with taking over a country, and turning it socialist. Curse all these obstacles that keep Obama from being coronated King. UGH!!!
capejasmine on December 15, 2009 at 4:18 PM
And 100% support from Beatrice Kiddo…..
Jerome Horwitz on December 15, 2009 at 4:18 PM
Power holders of the Nation
Presidency: Democrats
Senate: Democrats
House: Democrats
Not being able to accomplish anything: Priceless
portlandon on December 15, 2009 at 4:18 PM
It’s a lot easier to gripe and moan about Republican governance for twenty or so years, than VOILA! have to actually DO IT YOURSELF as the Democrats have found. In fact, the Democrats are incapable of doing anything other than their (patented) “TAX AND SPEND” policies from years past.
With majorities in both houses of Congress they can’t even agree how to do THAT nowadays. How the Democrat Party exists is beyond me, populated with idiots from top to bottom. Snotty ones too, ashamed of that fact.
bradley11 on December 15, 2009 at 4:18 PM
not revolt, kabuki
alexwest on December 15, 2009 at 4:18 PM
Buzzzt! Wrong…try again.
Asher on December 15, 2009 at 4:18 PM
Its bipartisan. Kill the bill.
El_Terrible on December 15, 2009 at 4:19 PM
Oh please, one “And let me be clear” and they will fold.
jhffmn on December 15, 2009 at 4:19 PM
I would like my popcorn with white cheddar topping please.
Hold the ObamaCare… it is a tad fattening.
upinak on December 15, 2009 at 4:20 PM
When in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
First paragraph: Declaration of Independence
Thomas Jefferson et al
ted c on December 15, 2009 at 4:20 PM
Clusterf*ck!
Dukehoopsfan on December 15, 2009 at 4:20 PM
I don’t believe any of this. This complaining by Dean and other “progressive” politicians is to satisfy the lefty fundraisers and nutroots. Big labor and the rest will take what they can get. Ultimately, all the Woolsey types will climb on board with the compromise, kicking and screaming all the while. Because they see the big picture. Another in a long line of progressive steps toward single payer. Slower than the nutroots and trust fund leftists want, but inexorably moving towards it.
chris999 on December 15, 2009 at 4:21 PM
Reid would be finished in Nevada and independents would be horrified. If you want to alienate even more voters you’ll need to minimize the damage next year, have at it.
Allahpundit on December 15, 2009 at 4:21 PM
solid B+
DrStock on December 15, 2009 at 4:23 PM
But, but, but Dear Leader just said on TV this would be the best chance for Obamacare in a generation. They surely are not going to vote against the ONE.
d1carter on December 15, 2009 at 4:23 PM
As I said in the other thread, not only pass the popcorn, make more.
Most ethical administration ever is the most incompetent.
ORconservative on December 15, 2009 at 4:23 PM
I’ll give it my best long island accent
this is soo
FUBAAHHHH (fubar)
blatantblue on December 15, 2009 at 4:24 PM
The Dems can purge the Blue Dogs, we can get the Rinos, and llet the Hatfield and McCoy battle start anew!!!
Seriously, though, when the federal government gets this big, one can only expect polarization. If the federal government was not this powerful, you want not see this type of situation. People would move to states that suit their lifestyles.
Until then…let’s get it on!
WashJeff on December 15, 2009 at 4:24 PM
Time to call your favorite liberal congressmen and tell them that this bill isn’t liberal enough for you?
stldave on December 15, 2009 at 4:24 PM
Burris is saying “NO”, without the public options. See Drudge.
Schadenfreude on December 15, 2009 at 4:24 PM
Reconciliation means shoving the bill into the budget for an up or down vote. However everything not pertaining to the budget can be challenged and thrown out leaving a giant cratering mess of a bill.
jhffmn on December 15, 2009 at 4:26 PM
Ha, being in Oregon I could easily call and say it is not liberal enough.
I might choke on the words but they would buy it, hook, line, sucker………
ORconservative on December 15, 2009 at 4:26 PM
Your 2010 year won’t be happy at all.
Schadenfreude on December 15, 2009 at 4:27 PM
It’s funny, according to a recent piece in the Weekly Standard on the lessons of 1994, it’s the middle third of Dem’s who will pay the highest price come 2010… The blue dogs can still save themselves…
KILL THE BILL
phreshone on December 15, 2009 at 4:27 PM
The Republican Party is in a civil war. But everything is sunshine and lolipops in the Demokratnik party.
Holger on December 15, 2009 at 4:27 PM
Time for the Republicans who are so fond of reaching across the aisle to do just that and join with the far lefties to kill the bill…something similar happened to the Shamnesty 2 years ago.
Somehow, however, I suspect that instead the GOP will team up with Obama to help him pass something he can call a victory and that will slowly kill off whats left of our healthcare system.
james23 on December 15, 2009 at 4:29 PM
Bipartisan unity, that’s what Odinglenuts was all about, right? Looks like he’s got it. The nation is united (local zombie trolls notwithstanding, and even they probably express doubts once their shift is over) in hating this turd of a bill. And The Zero is succeeding at getting the nation united against him, too. B+. What a fool.
mr.blacksheep on December 15, 2009 at 4:29 PM
Just everyone lining up for their share of the Obama Give-a-way Express
gatorboy on December 15, 2009 at 4:29 PM
You mean I have to start relying on libs for the death of this thing??
Ugh
laurakbarr on December 15, 2009 at 4:29 PM
You know, I can actually now call my IL senators with a message of “Vote NO, without the public option,” and they may listen to me now. Time to light up the phones.
WashJeff on December 15, 2009 at 4:29 PM
More Popcorn:
Bart Gordon, Democrat, a 12-term congressman calls it quits–won’t seek re-election.
Enoxo on December 15, 2009 at 4:29 PM
He wants a new tombstone?
WashJeff on December 15, 2009 at 4:31 PM
It’s like watching a bad Mexican soap opera on Telemuuuuuundo.
SouthernGent on December 15, 2009 at 4:31 PM
This will get interesting.
cubachi on December 15, 2009 at 4:31 PM
Nelson’s being blackmailed with base closings in NE. Although it remains to be seen if Obama has the spine to actually try it, if there’s one thing he knows how to pull off that would be utilizing underhanded tactics.
As an aside, the meltdown going on at the popular leftwing sites right now is pure comedy gold. More spinning than a top factory and denial than all of AGW-dom.
Dark-Star on December 15, 2009 at 4:31 PM
I have moved on to Chocolate and ate a huge bar of it.
Nice link though!
upinak on December 15, 2009 at 4:31 PM
Thanks.
So, if I’ve got this straight: the House just sticks its already-passed bill into the omnibus budget bill as an amendment, then the Senate passes its budget bill sans health care stuff, and then they stick it in in conference, and, voila! An up-or-down shot at several thousand pages of crap.
Cool.
notropis on December 15, 2009 at 4:31 PM
Bullsh!t.
Itchee Dryback on December 15, 2009 at 4:31 PM
Don’t get me wrong, election have consequences and all that, but days like today are truly entertaining.
The Damn Democrats are tying themselves in knots.
We are going to get sucky legistlation out of this, inevitably and it would be nice if the Repubs had any power at all.
That aside though, this is terribly funny. This is what you knew would happen with Duhobama running in the center. He can’t keep all of his starry eyed hope and changers happy and this is so telling.
ORconservative on December 15, 2009 at 4:31 PM
They won’t answer the phones. Too busy measuring for curtains at the new prison.
Knucklehead on December 15, 2009 at 4:32 PM
I find the fact that Burris even mentioned something laughable on its face.
rob verdi on December 15, 2009 at 4:33 PM
No matter what happens with the bill, the DEMS are going to be MUCH easier to beat in 2010. MUCH.
IF this stupid thing passes, I predict a GOP takeover. I think everyone will be surprised. Then, since the only thing that Americans will be experiencing from the healthcare bill is increased taxes, it should be relatively easy to appeal to their common sense especially if they were promised that the tax increase would be repealed. The GOP can set out a plan to enable insurance across state lines, tort reform, etc. A conservative approach.
It will be a nail-biting experience, but I believe it will work out in the end.
Oink on December 15, 2009 at 4:35 PM
In a manner of speaking, we all do.
If the Democrats truly had any willpower or competence whatsoever, they could have simply steamrolled the bill through Congress and onto Obama’s desk to the cheers of half the nation.
Instead, as a poster at Reddit puts it:
“Congratulations, Democrats. It takes a tremendous amount of skill to singlehandedly imperil a Congressional majority and return bargaining power to a political party that has been spending the last five years circling the drain.”
..and you’d better believe many former libs in general and Obamabots in particular are getting steamed over the bill’s progress, or rather the lack thereof.
Dark-Star on December 15, 2009 at 4:35 PM
Social Security is going to be bankrupt this year, 7 ahead of schedule.
Medicare and Medicaid soon to follow.
You’ve bankrupted this country several times over with entitlements, and that’s not even counting the $3.5 trillion in new debt from Obama’s first 2 years.
Do any of you people ever think about what you’ve done already before you try to do more of it?
Chuck Schick on December 15, 2009 at 4:35 PM
can we say health care negotiations are going as well as things Copenhagen?
rob verdi on December 15, 2009 at 4:35 PM
Here are the curtains, now answer my calls.
WashJeff on December 15, 2009 at 4:36 PM
Mmmmm…I loves me some Jolly Time White Cheddar.
Itchee Dryback on December 15, 2009 at 4:37 PM
He is not that principled. Burris will cave. 2 to 1 odds he folds like a cheap umbrella in a stiff gale.
FireBlogger on December 15, 2009 at 4:37 PM
Medicare makes all of this pointless. Sure, they will pass some kind of health care bill, upon which they can build for the future. And they will. But even without a bill, they can lower the age of medicare to 18 if it comes to that.
Socialized medicine will be a fact. The progressive juggernaut is not only patient, but insidiously relentless. There is no victory fighting this, or any socialist cause, because, like islamic fundamentalism, it will never go away.
Socialism is inevitable because the Left doesn’t have to win all the time. We have to win all the time. They only have to win once.
keep the change on December 15, 2009 at 4:39 PM
tims472 on December 15, 2009 at 4:41 PM
Quote of the day.
logis on December 15, 2009 at 4:41 PM
It depends on what they are going to offer him. What’s her name in Louisiana got 300 million. I’m sure since he is sitting the coveted seat once held by the One, they will dig really deep into the honey pot.
milwife88 on December 15, 2009 at 4:41 PM
Politically speaking I’m not sure that there’s much of a price to be paid for that, compared to the cost of either a diluted bill or no bill.
I don’t think parliamentary maneuvering is going to make or break any candidacies, especially when a) we’re not going to get any Republicans anyway (so bipartisanship is a moot issue) b) it’s still a majority vote and c) it’s a little, well, “arcane” for a 30-second attack add.
How many Nevadans are going to vote not on the bill itself but on the procedural votes that preceded it? And, assuming this happened in January, how many people will even remember it in November? And the procedure itself gives cover to vulnerable members like Blanche Lincoln and Mary Landrieu.
And, finally, it’s probably going to be about the economy, anyway.
Bleeds Blue on December 15, 2009 at 4:41 PM
gatorboy on December 15, 2009 at 4:29 PM
The fool will take billions. The Fool in Chief will give them to him.
Schadenfreude on December 15, 2009 at 4:41 PM
What is “kabuki”?
Hey, this is getting ‘pass-the-popcorn” interesting. Still don’t trust them.
stenwin77 on December 15, 2009 at 4:42 PM
But Dear Leader said they were “on the precipice” of passing this monstrous thing. Wha’ Hoppen?
I hope they all listen to King Yee-hawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww’s advice and kill this sucker. The public will not allow them to start over, the Progressives will be so demoralized they will, like their hippie predecessors from the ’60s, stay home from the polls for a generation, and the world will be conservative again.
Greyledge Gal on December 15, 2009 at 4:42 PM
Bleeds Blue on December 15, 2009 at 4:41 PM
Some liberals actually believe not to be in the majority forever.
Schadenfreude on December 15, 2009 at 4:43 PM
But the people will still be ticked and even more so when he vetoes it. We’ll be getting closer and closer to 2012. This will all happen about the time that HRC throws her hat back in the ring for 2012. It’s a comin’.
Oink on December 15, 2009 at 4:45 PM
Yeah all those angry town halls, the nosediving ObamaCare polling and the fact that the 270+ million Americans who have insurance and Medicare are about to pay more for it and get less should be no issue whatsoever.
Chuck Schick on December 15, 2009 at 4:46 PM
“It’s full-blown Communism or nothing, dammit! No half measures!” -Howard Illych Dean
Akzed on December 15, 2009 at 4:46 PM
Obama did it during 2008.
Fletch54 on December 15, 2009 at 4:47 PM
I wonder if Howard Dean has been asked to be Hillary’s campaign manager in 2012?
Or, is it simply Howard Dean 2012?
.
locomotivebreath1901 on December 15, 2009 at 4:48 PM
I too dream, but unless we take the house with a veto proof margin, do you think Obama would sign the legislation?
barnone on December 15, 2009 at 4:48 PM
Aww, they’re picking up their ball and going home.
Buy Danish on December 15, 2009 at 4:48 PM
That speaks to my point that a parliamentary maneuver is going to have a negligible impact against the backdrop of larger issues.
Bleeds Blue on December 15, 2009 at 4:49 PM
I’m getting a big Deja Vu vibe here.
Awhile back wasn’t everyone convinced Chicago would get the 2016 Olympic Games? Obama was only going there because he was sure it was going to happen. Then Chicago was first out.
Now Obama is calling in the entire Democratic Senate Caucus for a final meeting.
I don’t think the votes are there for anything the Dems want.
A bill with regulatory reforms like the Repubs want would fly through but Pelosi and Reid can’t let that happen at this point.
Rocks on December 15, 2009 at 4:49 PM
Your demoratf**k buddies don’t think so. That is why they are ignoring the polls. Polls BTW that show Americans, by a wide margine want this bill dead and buried.
The traitors can’t make everyone happy and in the end no one will be happy. In 2010 they sink with this despicable bill and their unpatriotic behavior.
csdeven on December 15, 2009 at 4:50 PM
Nelson says to O that he is NOT on the bill and not to expect meeting to change his mind!
Now I’ll take some popcorn if you don’t mind. Oh and…KILL THE BILL!
tims472 on December 15, 2009 at 4:52 PM
Howard Dean:
“WE WILL TAKE OVER HEALTH CARE AND KILL JOBS AND KILL THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY AND RAISE TAXES AND HAVE DEATH PANELS AND THEN WE’RE GOING TO FIGHT FOR CAP & TRADE AND RAISE TAXES EVEN MORE AND KILL EVEN MORE JOBS AND THEN WE’RE GOING TO GO TO AMNESTY AND KILL EVEN MORE JOBS AND THEN WE’RE GOING TO GO TO GUN CONTROL—-YEAAAARRRRAGHHHHHHH”
Of course, I’m paraphrasing here.
ConservativeTony on December 15, 2009 at 4:52 PM
Not true at all- because a parlimentary maneuver opens up stalling procedures for the opposition as this becomes a budgetary vote. They can read this bill from now until the elections, each horrible mandate, tax and jailable offense read aloud and made into a law.
And like the other $100 trillion or so of unfunded entitlements you people created, we can’t afford any of this anyway. So someone is going to have revert it before the real costs kick in. Obama’s $2 trillion deficits will only bring that closer to reality.
Chuck Schick on December 15, 2009 at 4:54 PM
Typo:
“They can read this bill from now until the elections, each horrible mandate, tax and jailable offense read aloud and made into a
lawTV ad.”Chuck Schick on December 15, 2009 at 4:56 PM
So a cynical cramdown of an unpopular bill taking control of 1/6 of our economy and 100% of our lives will be forgiven due to the backhanded, undemocratic parliamentary trick used to make it law.
Akzed on December 15, 2009 at 4:56 PM
let me be clear, I do not think Reid is capable of carrying out “reconciliation”. A term lots Democrats are now throwing around without really appreciating what it means.
rob verdi on December 15, 2009 at 4:58 PM
When he realizes how outraged Americans are. When he continues to see his poll numbers drop like a rock. When HRC resigns as secretary of state and then ultimately throws her hat back in the ring. He’ll know his only chance at even maintaining his DEM nomination for 2012 will be to wipe his hands clean of the bill.
Oink on December 15, 2009 at 4:58 PM
And, finally, it’s probably going to be about the economy, anyway.
Bleeds Blue on December 15, 2009 at 4:41 PM
I get a kick out of lefties trying to spin the will of the American voter by telling them what their vote is going to be about. Never mind all those people that the dems insulted in the townhalls as teabaggers and such.
booter on December 15, 2009 at 5:00 PM
You mean a majority vote by democratically elected Senators?
I fail to see how this is any more or less democratic than the filibuster. If you’re so interested in “democracy,” give it an up-or-down vote.
Bleeds Blue on December 15, 2009 at 5:00 PM
Bleeds Blue,
People do not like having their views swatted away as negligible. In this case its about 60-65% of the country.
rob verdi on December 15, 2009 at 5:00 PM
MMM, I’m gonna hit the popcorn store on the way home, get some vanilla popcorn, a little cardamom, and have me some kheer-corn. Temp agency gets my husband a gig, a good review, and now this. I’ll take victories anywhere I can find them right now.
Sekhmet on December 15, 2009 at 5:01 PM
The real reason Obama is pushing Reid to drive ObamaCare through, despite the wishes most of the country?
No matter what happens to Reid in 2010, Obama still has a job for 2 more years.
ConservativeTony on December 15, 2009 at 5:02 PM
Burris is too damn dumb to think this one up as are most of the Dims. Daley prolly told old Burris there to get his butt out there and demand some Obama cash from Obama’s stash fo the Chitown recovery act of 2010!
He told old Burris get out there and ask and Pinnochio Obama will provide cause I splained things to him after he blew the olympics deal. We need cash and healthscares the way to get it .
See here, that Ho Landrieu got 300 billion go gets ya some Rolland.
The rest of the rats are too damn dumb to play the game and get some for their voters whilst there’s still some left to be got!
Gettin the bribe money, Burris, good for ya! Ya learn quick there son, quicker than a bunch o old fools thats been hangin around the Senate too long!
At least this crap sandwich will taste better to your voters when its wrapped in hundert dolla bills Burris old boy!
Get it befo they all figure it out and start linin up like a bunch of Obambots in Detroit or somethin.
dhunter on December 15, 2009 at 5:03 PM
Except the democratically elected senators are passing something the electorate does not want. This is why our prescient fore-fathers put such protections in the Senate rules- to protect the country from you and the ignorati.
Chuck Schick on December 15, 2009 at 5:06 PM
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