Gallup: Christmas spending still 20% down from 2008

posted at 11:36 am on December 15, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

If last Christmas season was a disaster for retailers, 2009 looks like the Titanic.  Gallup reports that its survey of consumers shows holiday spending down 20% or more each of the last three weeks from the previous year.  Its job survey continues to show no improvement over 2008, either:

Self-reported consumer spending was down more than 20% in each of the last three weeks from last year’s depressed weekly comparables. At the same time, Gallup’s Economic Confidence and Job Creation Indexes were essentially unchanged. …

Gallup’s attitudinal economic data suggest that the Main Street economy continues to lack a lot of merriment this holiday season. Neither economic confidence nor job creation has shown much improvement during recent months, while consumer spending continues to trail significantly behind last year’s recession-depressed levels. This seems to comport well with the assertions of Dr. Christina Romer, chair of the president’s Council of Economic Advisers, on “Meet the Press” this past weekend that most Americans will continue to feel as though the country is in a recession until the jobs situation improves significantly.

On the other hand, Gallup data contrast with many economists’ optimistic reactions to recent government reports suggesting a slight decline in the unemployment rate last month and an uptick in retail sales. For example, White House economic adviser Larry Summers said “everybody agrees that the recession is over” this past weekend on “This Week.” He went on to talk about the usual progression from the return of economic growth to increased job growth after some period of time.

The economic science is “settled” at the White House, but not at the malls.  The National Retail Federation showed a 0.8% decline in top-line sales numbers between November 2008 and this November in its own survey, released last Friday.  It also noted that those top-line sales involved more discounting than usual:

As shoppers – and retailers – set their sights on the holiday season, low prices and pent-up demand helped entice Americans back into the stores. According to the National Retail Federation, retail industry sales (which exclude automobiles, gas stations, and restaurants) rose 0.6 percent seasonally adjusted from October and dipped 0.8 percent year-over-year. The numbers are in line with NRF’s forecast of a 1 percent decline in holiday sales.*

“Unlike last year, when the economic downturn caught everyone off-guard, retailers were able to plan ahead this holiday season with an eagle eye on low inventory and aggressive discounts,” said NRF Chief Economist Rosalind Wells. “Retailers are encouraged to see momentum building in sales as they prepare for the final ten days before Christmas. Although November sales were encouraging, companies know that the holiday season is far from over and expect this year to come down to its usual photo finish.”

A decline in top-line sales does not indicate a recovery, though, and the discounting means lower profits for a sector already struggling with too many locations and personnel.  A poor holiday season will force even more closures and cutbacks for some retailers, with the exception of the big discount stores, where customers have flocked.

On the day the NRF released this survey, our family trekked to the Mall of America, the largest retail mall in the US and usually all but impossible to access during the Christmas season.  We easily found parking on the entry level and saw what would normally be considered a decent crowd for a mid-year weekend afternoon.  The ease of shopping two weeks before Christmas spoke loudly about the reluctance of shoppers to part with cash this year, and made Gallup’s survey look very close to the reality on the ground. (h/t Geoff A)

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 2

Larry Summers and Obama said the recession is over so its over dammit.

Joe Caps on December 15, 2009 at 11:37 AM

More unemployment coming soon to a city near you.

True_King on December 15, 2009 at 11:39 AM

We’re greedy, and saving up to be patriotic… you know, pay our taxes.

rightside on December 15, 2009 at 11:40 AM

Green shoots.

petefrt on December 15, 2009 at 11:40 AM

score one for deflationist

jp on December 15, 2009 at 11:41 AM

Shouldn’t people be doing their patriotic duty and spending themselves into further debt and financial insolvency like the geniuses in the Obama Administration have done? Don’t they want to get in line and follow the Dear Leader? Or are they just a gaggle of political terrorists and traitors?

/Joe Biden off

Good Lt on December 15, 2009 at 11:42 AM

Spending is down far more than 20% at my house.

Vashta.Nerada on December 15, 2009 at 11:43 AM

Hope and Change!

Oil Can on December 15, 2009 at 11:43 AM

I don’t know what to believe. I went to Macy’s Sunday evening to buy a sports jacket(I had a $100 gift card). One location I went to was insanely packed. It took 20 minutes to find a parking spot.

But they didn’t have the right size, so I went to another location. And that one was dead. I guess if they’re forced to close or cut back some of their stores, I know which one will be at the top of their list.

Doughboy on December 15, 2009 at 11:43 AM

I’m just waiting for hyper-inflation to kick in…

Then I’m hitting the malls empty buildings.

Seven Percent Solution on December 15, 2009 at 11:43 AM

Re: your MOA experience, our local Target has in years past been a zoo (as in no parking spaces at all on weekends) this time of year. Was there twice last weekend and it could just as well have been Wednesday morning. If you think retail numbers will be bad this year – just wait for 1Q ’10 UE, it’s gonna be a rough ride as seasonals are let go and employers retool for the coming wave of “reform”.

volnation on December 15, 2009 at 11:44 AM

That’s a solid B+.

amerpundit on December 15, 2009 at 11:45 AM

It means nothing…for Obama has spoken! We are in a glorious recovery. Observing otherwise is racist.

AUINSC on December 15, 2009 at 11:45 AM

It’s all part of the left’s secret plan to destroy Christmas and substitute Festivus. Or somethin’.

My collie says:

Aren’t conspiracy theories fun?

CyberCipher on December 15, 2009 at 11:46 AM

Cutting back on spending is sexy stuff. Here’s what’s sexy about it: saving money.

WashJeff on December 15, 2009 at 11:47 AM

We should start a poll on which retailers will be bankrupt at Q1.

Vashta.Nerada on December 15, 2009 at 11:47 AM

Weatherize your homes cause Barry was just on the boob tube again telling us it will create jobs.

Who knew that a tube of caulking could make such a wonderful stocking stuffer?

Knucklehead on December 15, 2009 at 11:48 AM

Marxists around the country must be thrilled that consumerism is down. The White House is estatic!

darwin on December 15, 2009 at 11:48 AM

Watch how many stores will close down right after December…sad, but healthcare will solve everything!

B++!

javamartini on December 15, 2009 at 11:48 AM

When you hear folks talking up X-mas sales, you can bet they are either Obama lovers or they are marketers wanting to create the image that everyone is spending so you should too.

TheSitRep on December 15, 2009 at 11:49 AM

Did all my shopping online and was able to save enough in taxes and travel to spend about the same as last year. Thank-You Price Grabber.

fourdeucer on December 15, 2009 at 11:49 AM

How’s that shruggin’ feel, Obowa?

SouthernGent on December 15, 2009 at 11:50 AM

Weatherize your homes cause Barry was just on the boob tube again telling us it will create jobs.

Who knew that a tube of caulking could make such a wonderful stocking stuffer?

Knucklehead on December 15, 2009 at 11:48 AM

It’s very strange what this man believes will stimulate the economy. Spending trillions on health care and subsidizing the weatherization of people’s homes will apparently create millions of jobs. My college economics professors had it all wrong apparently.

Doughboy on December 15, 2009 at 11:50 AM

Did all my shopping online and was able to save enough in taxes and travel to spend about the same as last year. Thank-You Price Grabber.

fourdeucer on December 15, 2009 at 11:49 AM

Your state doesn’t require you to pay internet shopping taxes in April?

myrenovations on December 15, 2009 at 11:51 AM

Who knew that a tube of caulking could make such a wonderful stocking stuffer?

Knucklehead on December 15, 2009 at 11:48 AM

“Hey, Hon, I bought some caulk and insulation for you for Christmas. Our CinC said is was sexy baby!!! Can’t wait to cuddle up tonight with you and the pink insulation.”

WashJeff on December 15, 2009 at 11:52 AM

Shouldn’t people be doing their patriotic duty and spending themselves into further debt and financial insolvency like the geniuses in the Obama Administration have done?

Good Lt on December 15, 2009 at 11:42 AM

I can’t even do that since I’ve gotten notices from my credit companies who are cutting my credit limit because “I don’t use the card enough”.

Thanks Barry!

Knucklehead on December 15, 2009 at 11:52 AM

Look, I know this is politically advantageous and all, but I’m getting kind of sick of the “yay, the economy is crappy” posts.

They come off unbelievably petty. It’s entirely possible to illustrate the Barry the Lightbringer’s failures without stuff like this.

TheUnrepentantGeek on December 15, 2009 at 11:53 AM

Your state doesn’t require you to pay internet shopping taxes in April?

myrenovations on December 15, 2009 at 11:51 AM

Only if you feel obliged to admit it.

fourdeucer on December 15, 2009 at 11:53 AM

Knucklehead on December 15, 2009 at 11:48 AM

Don’t forget the duct tape–it comes in colors, ya know…

lovingmyUSA on December 15, 2009 at 11:56 AM

Look, I know this is politically advantageous and all, but I’m getting kind of sick of the “yay, the economy is crappy” posts.

They come off unbelievably petty. It’s entirely possible to illustrate the Barry the Lightbringer’s failures without stuff like this.

TheUnrepentantGeek on December 15, 2009 at 11:53 AM

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I’m not happy the economy sucks. It’s no fun worrying about how much longer you’ll be employed and whether or not taxes will skyrocket.

I like these posts however because they reaffirm what we’ve all been arguing since January. That this President and this Congress are doing the exact opposite of what needs to be done to grow the economy.

It’s not about rooting against Obama or hoping he fails. It’s simply pointing out the obvious. That he’s failing miserably.

Doughboy on December 15, 2009 at 11:56 AM

ed continues to celebrate bad news for America.

sesquipedalian on December 15, 2009 at 11:56 AM

Look, I know this is politically advantageous and all, but I’m getting kind of sick of the “yay, the economy is crappy” posts.

They come off unbelievably petty. It’s entirely possible to illustrate the Barry the Lightbringer’s failures without stuff like this.

TheUnrepentantGeek on December 15, 2009 at 11:53 AM

I’m not cheering this news. I’m pointing it out, because the mainstream media’s not likely to do so. They’re reporting Summers’ insistence that recovery has already begun. That doesn’t appear to be the case in retail, which is a big key to any recovery.

Ed Morrissey on December 15, 2009 at 11:57 AM

I’m spending a lot less than last year, yes.

Bob's Kid on December 15, 2009 at 11:58 AM

TheUnrepentantGeek on December 15, 2009 at 11:53 AM

It must be good to know you and sesquipedalian are on the same page.

AUINSC on December 15, 2009 at 11:59 AM

I bought my wife a solar powered water heater for our house. She is just going to love the cost savings and no more carbon emissions from our effective natural gas water heater.

WashJeff on December 15, 2009 at 11:59 AM

Christmas shopping is down 20%?

Christmas tree sales are 6% higher.

Guess which one has been all over the news.

ConservativeTony on December 15, 2009 at 12:00 PM

Heh. I had the same experience at Wal-Mart the Saturday after Black Friday. I was dreading the crowd only to find the store had about the average (or a bit less) for any other Saturday.

Looks like a lot of people may have done their shopping on Black Friday and haven’t bothered to come back.

batter on December 15, 2009 at 12:00 PM

“Hey, Hon, I bought some caulk and insulation for you for Christmas. Our CinC said is was sexy baby!!! Can’t wait to cuddle up tonight with you and the pink insulation.”

WashJeff on December 15, 2009 at 11:52 AM

You won’t be cuddling with me and the pink insulation anytime soon, sweet cheeks. We have to get busy and sell the house before our new neighbors move into the Gitmo prison up the street.

Kind of adds a whole new meaning to “there goes the neighborhood”, now doesn’t it honey????

Knucklehead on December 15, 2009 at 12:01 PM

Obama is not honest. He is surrounded by dishonest sock puppets. I am sure most of us want accurate and truthfull numbers. State revenues are down 16-20% That includes sales taxes which are hard for washington to fudge.
Conservatives read a Drudge Report. Washington cranks out a Fudge Report.

seven on December 15, 2009 at 12:01 PM

Insider from the biggest big store passed on the store lost 30 mil and is putting the screws on all units to produce numbers. They hired almost no xmas help. Yet acting as if all is a-ok. I noticed a bunch of items marketed at unreal price, which means they are putting screws on suppliers to go broke supplying them or else. All is conjecture based upon rumor but the low hiring is real

entagor on December 15, 2009 at 12:01 PM

I just shopped over at Glenn Beck’s place. I want to pad that greedy, capitalistic, patriot’s pocket. ;-)

DanaSmiles on December 15, 2009 at 12:03 PM

20% is a nice start. When it gets to 50%, the economy will be back in equilibrium and people won’t think owing $30K on the VISA card = wealth.

angryed on December 15, 2009 at 12:03 PM

As presented in this WSJ Editorial, the issue is getting people into the door. Being in a business that requires people to have $250, $500 or even $1000 available to pay deductibles, I can attest this is the problem. I would love to see articles that the “Main Street” economy is on the mend and improving, but ignoring reality does not fix anything.

Regarding small business, not everyone agrees that lack of credit is the main economic problem. William Dennis of the National Federation of Independent Business says that for most small companies the problem is a lack of customers, not credit. “There aren’t a lot of folks who want to borrow. Our challenge is getting people in the front door,” he says.

WashJeff on December 15, 2009 at 12:03 PM

Vashta.Nerada on December 15, 2009 at 11:43 AM

Join the club.

batter on December 15, 2009 at 12:04 PM

It’s Bush’s fault.

Fuquay Steve on December 15, 2009 at 12:04 PM

Shopping kills penguins.

Itchee Dryback on December 15, 2009 at 12:05 PM

Knucklehead on December 15, 2009 at 12:01 PM

Woooo…I used quotes on that comment and I don’t swing that way! ;-)

So it appears that Quinn does not need legislator approval to sell the prison? Nice to know that the GOvernor of IL can sell anything he\she likes.

WashJeff on December 15, 2009 at 12:05 PM

Where’s all these Fat Cats I hear about, when we need them?

Fuquay Steve on December 15, 2009 at 12:06 PM

I’m just waiting for hyper-inflation to kick in…

Then I’m hitting the malls empty buildings.

Seven Percent Solution on December 15, 2009 at 11:43 AM

I’m thinking a brief bout of hyper-inflation might be nice. My mortgage is fixed, so I could pay off my house for pennies on the dollar, and of course paying off the national debt would be a lot easier.

Kidding. Kind of.

Our spending is about the same, except for all the spending I did at the post-Christmas sales last year, when high end stores were practically giving stuff away.

Despite the potential malaise that lower sales will bring the economy, there is something to be said for a continued drop in consumer debt.

Bleeds Blue on December 15, 2009 at 12:06 PM

ED!

Don’t you know that actually reporting bad economic news is akin to rooting for economic failure!?!?!?!

Didn’t you get that memo?

/s

Joe Caps on December 15, 2009 at 12:09 PM

Despite the potential malaise that lower sales will bring the economy, there is something to be said for a continued drop in consumer debt.

Bleeds Blue on December 15, 2009 at 12:06 PM

Now only if state and federal governments thought reducing debts and deficits were good things (and not via taking more of our money).

WashJeff on December 15, 2009 at 12:10 PM

At least 20% at my business. It’s been an awful season.

lorien1973 on December 15, 2009 at 12:11 PM

It must be good to know you and sesquipedalian are on the same page.

AUINSC on December 15, 2009 at 11:59 AM

If you really think that you’re either an idiot or remarkably unobservant.

TheUnrepentantGeek on December 15, 2009 at 12:12 PM

Shaddup, y’all! Ungrateful peasants, all of you.

Barry and MO are getting lots of “stuff” (as they call it).

Count your lumps of coal, be thankful and remember them. Next year you may have none.

Cody1991 on December 15, 2009 at 12:13 PM

Okay, and lets load down the economy with a huge new Trillion dollar entitlement – Yeah! That the ticket!

Juno77 on December 15, 2009 at 12:13 PM

Big problem for the US but a massively huge (dare I say collosal)problem for China.

Probably shouldn’t buy that new condo in Ordos

The good news is China has decided to default on derivative contracts with foreign banks and has a new idea on how to enlarge the cash funnel that has inflated the real estate bubble.

2010 will be an interesting year and it is likely to only going to get more interestinglier and interestinglier.

R Square on December 15, 2009 at 12:14 PM

lower profits for a sector already struggling with too many locations and personnel. A poor holiday season will force even more closures and cutbacks for some retailers, with the exception of the big discount stores, where customers have flocked.

Maybe a lot of retail location should close. How many freaking candle stores does the world need? Near where I live there are two candle stores about 2 blocks apart and in between there are 2 antique stores selling all sorts of crap.

This worked well when everyone was flush with funny HELOC money. Spend $15 on a candle? Why not, get 3 while I’m here. Now that the home ATM is closed and people actually have to spend money they earn (not borrow) that $15 candle seems ridiculous. And when that candle store closes, it will be a good thing.

angryed on December 15, 2009 at 12:14 PM

If you really think that you’re either an idiot or remarkably unobservant.

TheUnrepentantGeek on December 15, 2009 at 12:12 PM

Did you not just whine about this post? Then right after, notice sesquipedalian did the exact same thing in the same way you did?

I guess I’m an idiot.

AUINSC on December 15, 2009 at 12:15 PM

ed continues to celebrate report bad news for America.
sesquipedalian on December 15, 2009 at 11:56 AM

FIFY

joejm65 on December 15, 2009 at 12:15 PM

Despite the potential malaise that lower sales will bring the economy, there is something to be said for a continued drop in consumer debt.

Bleeds Blue on December 15, 2009 at 12:06 PM

As it’s dwarfed by public debt.

Note to Ed… you’re supposed to hide the decline.

mankai on December 15, 2009 at 12:15 PM

Sadly, the idea of “Christmas shopping” is a thing of the past. The left has been increasingly successful at getting more and more people to hate anything Christian.

Just go down any residential district across America, and with few exceptions, look at the number of homes with Christmas lights. Every year, less and less people even make the effort.

The point is, Christmas shopping has been successfully turned into one giant sale, lasting from Thanksgiving to New Year’s Day. I’ll wait to see what the sales are during that period–though I am sure they will be.

ConservativeTony on December 15, 2009 at 12:16 PM

A decline in top-line sales does not indicate a recovery, though, and the discounting means lower profits for a sector already struggling with too many locations and personnel. A poor holiday season will force even more closures and cutbacks for some retailers, with the exception of the big discount stores, where customers have flocked.

Economiic Recovery Denialist!

agmartin on December 15, 2009 at 12:16 PM

sesquipedalian on December 15, 2009 at 11:56 AM

The Left was only rooting for more body bags in Iraq when Bush was in the WH.

mankai on December 15, 2009 at 12:16 PM

This isn’t so much cheering bad news as it is an example of gallows humor.

Hey, maybe they will roll Home Depot and Lowes sales into the holiday shopping figures. If they do you can be assured that I have contributed a bunch to our economic recovery.

By the way nothing says Merry Christmas like felt weatherstripping for your special someone’s door.

Just A Grunt on December 15, 2009 at 12:17 PM

I also went to the Mall of America last weekend (armed of course because its the MOA) and noticed that the crowds were skimpy. I’ve seen more people there on a weekday during the school year.

Bishop on December 15, 2009 at 12:17 PM

Any ideas? Cash for Christmas?

mankai on December 15, 2009 at 12:17 PM

This is just the beginning…. Interest rates may be getting ready to explode in 1Q 2010…. the technicals certainly line up that way.

http://market-ticker.org/archives/1731-To-Congress-Your-Loan-Has-Been-Called.html

http://market-ticker.org/archives/1730-TIC-Data-Confirms-Foreign-Appetite-Gone.html

BPD on December 15, 2009 at 12:19 PM

Any ideas? Cash for Christmas?

mankai on December 15, 2009 at 12:17 PM

Don’t give them any ideas! lol Any gift from this gub’mint will be taxable.

Cody1991 on December 15, 2009 at 12:20 PM

Note to Ed… you’re supposed to hide the decline.

mankai on December 15, 2009 at 12:15 PM

Brilliant!

Thanks for the laugh!

R Square on December 15, 2009 at 12:20 PM

Any ideas? Cash for Christmas?
mankai on December 15, 2009 at 12:17 PM

Ammo for Christmas.

Fake8 on December 15, 2009 at 12:20 PM

This is just the beginning…. Interest rates may be getting ready to explode in 1Q 2010…. the technicals certainly line up that way.

About freaking time. The dollar just might be brought back from the dead.

angryed on December 15, 2009 at 12:21 PM

BPD on December 15, 2009 at 12:19 PM

True, dat. There is a lot of $ buying going on. Commercial short tally dropped in the last weeks. It’s coming…..

Cody1991 on December 15, 2009 at 12:22 PM

Any ideas? Cash for Christmas?

mankai on December 15, 2009 at 12:17 PM

I love Conservative humor. It’s funny, nobody gets hurt (well, only a little), and the message is usually right on target.

ConservativeTony on December 15, 2009 at 12:22 PM

I think this is good news. There is no way our economy was going to keep growing on borrowed money forever. This “readjustment” is exactly the thing we need to get back to real sustainable growth. And sustainable growth is not a 5-10% increase in retail sales year after year using borrowed money that is never really paid back.

Johnnyreb on December 15, 2009 at 12:23 PM

I don’t know anyone who is spending money right now. Obama is scaring this nation to death.

Connie on December 15, 2009 at 12:27 PM

For a very practical reason, I like the more empty than usual stores. My twins have been a little, um, annoying lately, and I get less of the stink eye when out shopping. The weather’s been really wet here, and the boys have been cooped up inside. : (

I know personally, our spending is up about 20%. We stopped using credit cards, but surprisingly, we have more money to spend. More accurately, we’re spending as much on our family as we did last year, and the rest has gone to various Christmastime charities. There are a lot of familes around here that aren’t nearly as fortunate as we are, and I have a feeling it’s going to get worse long before it gets better.

Anna on December 15, 2009 at 12:28 PM

Despite the potential malaise that lower sales will bring the economy, there is something to be said for a continued drop in consumer debt.

Bleeds Blue on December 15, 2009 at 12:06 PM

As it’s dwarfed by public debt.

Note to Ed… you’re supposed to hide the decline.

mankai on December 15, 2009 at 12:15 PM

Related but separate issues. Among the reasons for the recession was that, when hard times came, nobody had any cushion. Consumer spending dropped precipitously, credit card and mortgage payments went unpaid and the recession accelerated — not to mention the human costs to people who might not have lost their homes or had to leave college if they’d had a relatively small positive net worth to tide them over.

Bleeds Blue on December 15, 2009 at 12:30 PM

Related but separate issues.

Um,no… since public debt puts a burden on tax laws and against investment it further destroys any cushion that may be available.

mankai on December 15, 2009 at 12:32 PM

As a Grinch, myself, I am buying nothing for Christmas this year. Well, I’m buying me mum something, but that’s it. Christmas is not about gifts, and certainly not as an adult. So why should we feed the beast?

Nobody benefits from the exchange of good other than the stores. You never get what you want or need, and you end up buying junk that they didn’t really want or need. Nobody ends up the better for this orgy, but we all end up poorer for it. The whole exercise is a huge net loss, not only to us as individuals, but to the country. China is the prime beneficiary.

As children, we got used to receiving gifts at Christmas. Once a person is conditioned like that from day 1, it is a practice that is very hard to break because it is reinforced every year. Then you have the guilt factor. Most people feel awkward receiving gifts from others, and we shop at Christmas time to alleviate the greater awkwardness of receiving without having spent ourselves.

Fortunately, bad economic times are a blessing in disguise as they help to wean us off this insanity by forcing us to spend less. I’ve been almost totally weaned off of it and it is a very liberating feeling. The only gift I buy at Christmas is a tradition I started 20 years ago of donating a children’s toy for charity that I take to a firehouse where it is wrapped and distributed.

keep the change on December 15, 2009 at 12:32 PM

maybe…
Since the demi-dhimmis have pretty much taken the Christ out of Christmas, the spirit of giving has been curtailed.

max1 on December 15, 2009 at 12:34 PM

Did you not just whine about this post? Then right after, notice sesquipedalian did the exact same thing in the same way you did?

I guess I’m an idiot.

AUINSC on December 15, 2009 at 12:15 PM

We posted for the exact same reasons too! We’re just two peas in a pod, sesqui and I. You can totally believe that.

Or you can join the rest of us in reality land and quit playing the “I’m more hardcore than you” Internets commenter game.

TheUnrepentantGeek on December 15, 2009 at 12:35 PM

My wife and I spent a lot of money on Xmas for the kids this year, we always do because we enjoy seeing their little faces light up.

Is it bad to create an expectation every year for a pile of gifts under the tree, perhaps according to some, but considering the world which is waiting for my kids when they become adults I have no problem feeding their innocence and happiness while I still can.

Bishop on December 15, 2009 at 12:38 PM

TheUnrepentantGeek on December 15, 2009 at 12:35 PM

I’m not playing any ‘Internets commenter game’…just pointing out a fact. Seems I touched a nerve.

AUINSC on December 15, 2009 at 12:38 PM

since public debt puts a burden on tax laws and against investment it further destroys any cushion that may be available.

mankai on December 15, 2009 at 12:32 PM

Public debt also consumes wealth that could be invested in the private sector. As a WSJ Op-Ed explained:

Meanwhile, Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke’s near-zero-rate interest policy encourages banks to borrow cheaply and then invest in safe long-end Treasurys instead of riskier commercial loans. The Obama Treasury has explicitly supported this Fed policy as a way for banks to play the yield curve to rebuild their balance sheets.

Banks are investing in our federal debt and not loaning to businesses…as Obama says he wants, but his actions betray.

WashJeff on December 15, 2009 at 12:39 PM

maybe understanding the numbers behind the precentages would help people grasp what the gallup poll means.

the avg consumer pre 2008 spent around $840 for christmas. In 2008 that figured dropped to around $801 or a ~5% drop.

If Gallup is correct that means the avg consumer this year is only planning to spend $640. this is major news and should be broadcasting on all channels. this will destroy an economy based 70% on consumer spending. when you add in inflation the total spending is decreased even more because that $640 buys alot less “things” than it would have bought in 2008. So the “real” spending decline is closer to a 25-30% in real dollars.

this means less “things” produced, less jobs needed to rpoduce those things, less services needed, less jobs etc.

OMG this is a depression level spending decrease. Be prepared for a massive stock market downturn after the holiday season.

unseen on December 15, 2009 at 12:39 PM

considering the world which is waiting for my kids when they become adults I have no problem feeding their innocence and happiness while I still can.

Bishop on December 15, 2009 at 12:38 PM

Agreed. Kids have a sh*t sandwich waiting for them in their adult years. I hope they rebel at the voting booth and vote in members that are willing to cut entitlements so they can enjoy a prosperous future.

WashJeff on December 15, 2009 at 12:43 PM

Working as expected.

logis on December 15, 2009 at 12:44 PM

Factories in the New York region unexpectedly expanded at the slowest pace in five months in December, indicating manufacturing may provide less of a thrust for the economy in coming months.

The Federal Reserve Bank of New York’s general economic index fell to 2.6 from 23.5 in November, the bank said today. Readings above zero signal manufacturing expansion in the state and parts of New Jersey and Connecticut. In October, the index jumped to 34.6, the highest since May 2004.

Measures of orders, sales and employment all declined during the month, pointing to an uneven pace of expansion in manufacturing, which led the U.S. out of the worst recession since the 1930s. Companies may be limiting orders to ensure the progress they’ve made in paring inventories this year.

“The pace of manufacturing-sector improvement has slowed noticeably,” Guy LeBas, chief fixed-income strategist at Janney Montgomery Scott LLC in Philadelphia, said before the report. “Production conditions are now more in equilibrium.”

Futures on the Standard & Poor’s 500 index extended declines after the report, falling 0.5 percent to 1,102.6 at 8:41 a.m. in New York.

Wholesale prices in the U.S. increased more than anticipated in November, led by a jump in fuel costs and a rebound in truck prices, a separate report from the Labor Department showed today.

The 1.8 percent increase in prices paid to factories, farmers and other producers was more than twice as large as anticipated and followed a 0.3 percent gain in October.,,,,,
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=acA5QsYxMweE

unseen on December 15, 2009 at 12:45 PM

Seems I touched a nerve.

AUINSC on December 15, 2009 at 12:38 PM

Indeed you did. Strangely I’m not fond of being compared to insulting lefty flame trolls. How utterly bizarre.

TheUnrepentantGeek on December 15, 2009 at 12:46 PM

Agreed. Kids have a sh*t sandwich waiting for them in their adult years. I hope they rebel at the voting booth and vote in members that are willing to cut entitlements so they can enjoy a prosperous future.

WashJeff on December 15, 2009 at 12:43 PM

And if that fails I’m teaching my son how to shoot well

unseen on December 15, 2009 at 12:46 PM

unseen on December 15, 2009 at 12:39 PM

You’re right. And that is a major reason to alter our economic focus and become an energy producer. It’s insane that we have a resource rich country yet refuse take advantage of our riches and produce jobs as well. We all know why we don’t.

Your comments also illustrate the insanity of this administration. All they can think to do is tax people who are making less – other than civil servants, that is. The rest of the population is dealing with hard times.

Cody1991 on December 15, 2009 at 12:47 PM

In my house, my 19, soon to be 20, year old son will get a new set of tires for the car. And he is happy with that.

My 14 year old son was asked what he wanted for Christmas and said, “Nothing I’ve got what I need”.

I asked if they would like a Wii. Not much interest. I think they are starting to realize that it’s not WHAT or HOW MUCH you get, but WHO your with.

MY FAMILY IS VERY BLESSED. THAT’S ENOUGH FOR ME!!!

PappaMac on December 15, 2009 at 12:47 PM

Bishop on December 15, 2009 at 12:38 PM

Just place it all on a fixed interest loan and let inflation pay for the bills. DO NOt get a variable interest rate loan. FIXED loans will be paid back with cheaper dollars in the future

unseen on December 15, 2009 at 12:48 PM

Retail sales numbers are RACISSSSSSSSTTTTTT!!!

jukin on December 15, 2009 at 12:49 PM

Um,no… since public debt puts a burden on tax laws and against investment it further destroys any cushion that may be available.

mankai on December 15, 2009 at 12:32 PM

I was referring to the effect on consumer spending not the potential effect on credit availability.

Banks are investing in our federal debt and not loaning to businesses…as Obama says he wants, but his actions betray.

WashJeff on December 15, 2009 at 12:39 PM

I agree. But raising interest rates in a fragile economy is a delicate task.

Bleeds Blue on December 15, 2009 at 12:49 PM

Cody1991 on December 15, 2009 at 12:47 PM

agreed the only way we get real economic growth is pay off our gov debt, open up manufacturing (drilling, electric generation, nuclear plants and changing the tarrifs to promote jobs to stay in the USA.

IMO Free trade is good among our friends that also practice it. It is not good among our enemies and those that do not practice it.

unseen on December 15, 2009 at 12:51 PM

I’m not playing any ‘Internets commenter game’…just pointing out a fact. Seems I touched a nerve.

AUINSC on December 15, 2009 at 12:38 PM

You don’t ‘touch’ much of anything, largely because your ‘touching’ can be likened to a blind man in power armor trying to play a VR boxing game.

Dark-Star on December 15, 2009 at 12:53 PM

I agree. But raising interest rates in a fragile economy is a delicate task.

Bleeds Blue on December 15, 2009 at 12:49 PM

that is why you cut government spending so the banks do not have anything to buy and instead must loan the money to the private section. that way you can keep interest rates low

unseen on December 15, 2009 at 12:54 PM

Comment pages: 1 2