Pro-life nurse forced to assist an abortion

posted at 1:30 pm on December 12, 2009 by Cassy Fiano

This is certainly not an unusual case, or else we wouldn’t have federal statutes to prevent it. In New York, a Catholic nurse was forced to participate in abortion, despite the fact that her supervisors knew of her moral objection to it. When she initially refused, they threatened her job.

The Alliance Defense Fund (ADF) has filed a lawsuit on behalf of a Catholic nurse who was forced to participate in an abortion, despite voicing her moral objections.

Catherina Cenzon-DeCarlo, a nurse at Mount Sinai Hospital in New York, was instructed to assist in a late second-trimester abortion for a woman 22 weeks into her pregnancy. The hospital had known of the nurse’s religious objections to abortion since she was hired in 2004.

Cenzon-DeCarlo reminded her supervisors of her religious objections, but was told that if she did not participate, she would be charged with “insubordination and patient abandonment,” which could result in disciplinary action and the possible loss of her job and nursing license

Hospital officials told Cenzon-DeCarlo that the situation was an “emergency,” although evidence suggests that this was not the case. The hospital itself labeled the case as a “Category II,” meaning that the operation needed to take place within six hours. This would have allowed enough time to find another nurse without moral objections to assisting in the abortion, her lawyers said.

Matt Bowman, legal counsel for the ADF, explained that the hospital could not legally have required the nurse to participate in the abortion even if the case had been a “Category I,” meaning that the patient required “immediate surgical intervention for life or limb threatening conditions.” Federal statutes prohibit recipients of federal health funds from requiring employees to perform abortions, Bowman told CNA.

However, the evidence in the case suggested that the patient was not even at the “Category II” level, as the hospital had claimed. When the woman was brought into the room, Cenzon-DeCarlo observed no indications that the case was a medical emergency. The woman’s blood pressure was not at a crisis level, and standard procedures for patients in crisis had not been taken. Yet the nurse was still required to aid in the abortion.

When CNA contacted Mount Sinai, officials refused to comment or explain why the nurse was asked to participate in the abortion. Officials stated that they would not comment because a lawsuit is pending.

Now, the ADF has filed a lawsuit against Mount Sinai for violating Cenzon-DeCarlo’s rights of conscience.

… Earlier this month, President Obama promised that a “robust conscience clause” would be forthcoming, but critics are skeptical after his earlier decision to repeal conscience provisions put in place by the Bush administration.

My first thought is how cruel this is — to force someone to participate in something that they have such a strong moral objection to. If her supervisors knew of her objections to performing abortions for five years now, and then forced her to assist one anyways, then that seems to me like a petty, cruel thing to do. As explained in the article, the hospital is claiming that the patient was a Category II case, meaning the operation needed to take place within six hours. That would have been more than enough time to find a nurse without moral objections to perform the abortion. Yet instead, they sought out the Catholic nurse who they knew had moral and religious objections to abortion, and forced her to do it. That is cruel, and unnecessarily so.

Unfortunately, this is all too common and in a variety of ways. It’s mostly thanks to feminists who howl in rage if anyone has a moral objection against anything they feel is a “reproductive right”. Doctors and nurses who don’t want to perform abortions, pharmacists who don’t want to dispense the morning after pill or contraception… they’re all told that they’re required to do these things and if they don’t like it, to get out of their field. Organizations like Pharmacists for Life International find themselves the target of feminist wrath. And whether it’s regarding pharmacists, doctors, or nurses, the end point is still the same each time: it’s about restricting choice. This is America, where free-market capitalism is supposed to reign. A business owner can operate his or her business how they want to. They can sell whatever goods or products they want to — and likewise, refuse to sell whatever goods or products they don’t want to sell. Customers, meanwhile, are free to shop wherever they choose. If they don’t like a pharmacy that refuses to sell contraception, or a doctor’s office that won’t perform abortions, they can go elsewhere. Some people though — ironically, most so-called pro-choicers — don’t want people to have that choice, though. Abortion is legal, so therefore, all doctors and nurses must be willing to perform it, no matter what their religious and moral principles tell them.

What’s worrying is how prevalent these cases may become if Obama’s government run healthcare reform passes. Obama is arguably the most extreme pro-abortion president we’ve ever had. This is the guy who voted three times against the Born Alive Infant Protection Act, which would guarantee medical treatment for babies who survive abortions. He’s repealing conscience provisions put in place by President Bush. If his health care reform passes, complete with the inevitable more taxpayer funding for abortion, what kind of protection are pro-life doctors and nurses going to have? My guess would be very little. Hopefully Cenzon-DeCarlo wins her suit.

No one should have to be forced to do something that they feel goes against their religious and moral principles. But in Obama’s hopier, changier America, is that where we’re heading?

Hat Tip: Stop the ACLU

abortion

Cross-posted from Cassy’s blog. Stop by for more original commentary or follow her on Twitter!

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Holger on December 12, 2009 at 7:16 PM

Ann is facing something she never before thought about in depth.

Give it, and her, some time.

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 7:18 PM

Give it, and her, some time.

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 7:18 PM

She’s in her 50′s, she’s spent plent of time thinking about and worshipping this cause.

thomasaur on December 12, 2009 at 7:20 PM

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 7:18 PM

I HOPE she will CHANGE.

Abortion is a symptom of what is wrong with America. But the Abortion issue is also great avenue of Curing it.

Holger on December 12, 2009 at 7:21 PM

AsianGirlInTights on December 12, 2009 at 6:23 PM

Hurts, doesn’t it? You’re a flaming hypocrite who condemns this nurse on some kind of “principle”, yet we now discover that you don’t have the guts to stand on yours.

You have no moral high ground to question her, or me.

Now go slink back to your corner, b****.

atheling on December 12, 2009 at 6:32 PM

Chick fight!

lovingmyUSA on December 12, 2009 at 7:22 PM

We told you about her pal.

thomasaur on December 12, 2009 at 7:17 PM

This topic is something new to her, going in depth. Ann has never seen this before. I’m willing and trying with her.

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 7:22 PM

AnninCA on December 12, 2009 at 4:12 PM
FIFY–wouldn’t want anyone to think you were a hypocrite or something…

lovingmyUSA on December 12, 2009 at 7:17 PM

+1000.

HornetSting on December 12, 2009 at 7:22 PM

thomasaur on December 12, 2009 at 7:17 PM
This topic is something new to her, going in depth. Ann has never seen this before. I’m willing and trying with her.

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 7:22 PM

You ever heard of beating a dead horse…or in Ann’s case, beating a skanky old bag of bile?
I know what Ann is and I was trying to give her the benefit of the doubt. She has been able to hide her true face with the Sarah threads, but her mask is slipping and what is waiting behind that mask is not fit for man or beast.

HornetSting on December 12, 2009 at 7:23 PM

FIRST!

Bishop on December 12, 2009 at 7:24 PM

Next time you see somebody pregnant say…”Oh I see you are pregnant…do you think it’s a baby???”

Does that not answer the question???

Just call it what it is KILLING BABIES FOR CONVENIENCE…

winston on December 12, 2009 at 7:25 PM

Monstrous.

Midas on December 12, 2009 at 7:25 PM

Another hypocrite. You question if I am paying my taxes, and when I tell you that I’m not, you call it grandstanding. If I were paying, you’d call me a hypocrite.

At least I ain’t a coward like you are.

atheling on December 12, 2009 at 6:35 PM

How am I a hypocrite? You’re making things up.

I thought it grandstanding long before this thread, and your responses were known to me.

What are you basing the conclusion that I would call you a hypocrite if you paid your taxes? It really makes no sense…I pay my taxes, and don’t see myself as a hypocrite.

Theres a difference between being smart and being a coward. The tax shtick is bogus for the reasons I stated. Its dumb and pointless, “coward” has noting to do with it..You will pay your taxes, and when you do, what will you call yourself?

Itchee Dryback on December 12, 2009 at 7:25 PM

This topic is something new to her, going in depth. Ann has never seen this before. I’m willing and trying with her.

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 7:22 PM

This topic explains her to a T. She is in her 50′s and has spent the better part of her adult life defending this crap. She’s not some kid who has yet to see the light and it will take something greater than you or I to bring her around.

thomasaur on December 12, 2009 at 7:26 PM

http://www.statehealthfacts.org/comparebar.jsp?ind=464&cat=10

I found this Kaiser site about a year ago when I was trying to understand the abstinence only vs sex ed fight and the left’s cry about helping teen mothers. What struck me is that (this is 2005 data) the 20-29yr old age group accounts for 50- 53% of all abortions in every state. Girls up to 19yrs old account for 17% of abortions. Women older than 40 account for 2-3 % of all abortions.

So is sex ed in jr high and high school going really going to drop the abortion rate if 20-29 year olds, who should have figured out the birds and the bees and birth control and possibly have their own insurance and access to contraception account for 53% of abortions?

And, maybe Marcus can help me out but aren’t most threats to the mother’s life in the 40+ age group? Any yet they only account for 3% of abortions unless they aren’t labeled that way.

Just food for thought and discussion. Carry on.

journeyintothewhirlwind on December 12, 2009 at 7:26 PM

She’s in her 50’s, she’s spent plent of time thinking about and worshipping this cause.

thomasaur on December 12, 2009 at 7:20 PM

But people do change here and there. I’ll give Ann more credit than I will simplesimon. By the evidence I face, I won’t discount Ann just yet.

Right or wrong–and time will bear me either way–I see a mind worth trying to keep. simon, blowfins, crr6–to me they’re lost causes. Ann seems willing to at least willing to listen to us.

She pisses me off a lot, but I’m not about to discount her easily. I see a mind, one that needs a little more love.

What happens, will be.

I gotta be me.

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 7:27 PM

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 7:18 PM

If you must adopt trolls,please have them neutered,leashed and pick up their crap.
Thank you

katy the mean old lady on December 12, 2009 at 7:28 PM

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 7:18 PM
If you must adopt trolls,please have them neutered,leashed and pick up their crap.
Thank you

katy the mean old lady on December 12, 2009 at 7:28 PM

LMAO!

HornetSting on December 12, 2009 at 7:29 PM

This topic explains her to a T. She is in her 50’s and has spent the better part of her adult life defending this crap. She’s not some kid who has yet to see the light and it will take something greater than you or I to bring her around.

thomasaur on December 12, 2009 at 7:26 PM

People come to what they know, to what they’ve been taught, according to the Grace of God. It takes time.

I’m willing to give Ann that time. By the same token, if she shoots off I’ll gun her down with all I have (figuratively, of course) tho I often call her a princess.

I see a genuine and fruitful mind there.

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 7:30 PM

I see a mind, one that needs a little more love.

What happens, will be.

I gotta be me.

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 7:27 PM

Knock yourself out Mary Poppins.

thomasaur on December 12, 2009 at 7:31 PM

I see a genuine and fruitful mind there.

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 7:30 PM

The only fruit there is rotten and past it’s expiration date, Liam.

HornetSting on December 12, 2009 at 7:32 PM

You ever heard of beating a dead horse…or in Ann’s case, beating a skanky old bag of bile?
I know what Ann is and I was trying to give her the benefit of the doubt. She has been able to hide her true face with the Sarah threads, but her mask is slipping and what is waiting behind that mask is not fit for man or beast.

HornetSting on December 12, 2009 at 7:23 PM

Anyone ever heard of “Grendel”?

lovingmyUSA on December 12, 2009 at 7:33 PM

”Oh I see you are pregnant…do you think it’s a baby???”

Does that not answer the question???

Just call it what it is KILLING BABIES FOR CONVENIENCE…

winston on December 12, 2009 at 7:25 PM

The willful blindness is unbelievable. I’ve have pro choice friends who have had friends that miscarried or lost a child in mid pregnancy because of accidents. Every last one of them and their friends have said “So n so..lost her baby. Every last one. No one said “So n so lost her cell mass”.
Why do you suppose that is?

Itchee Dryback on December 12, 2009 at 7:34 PM

journeyintothewhirlwind on December 12, 2009 at 7:26 PM

I’d wager that abortions 10-20 years ago are playing a role in that statistic.

Holger on December 12, 2009 at 7:34 PM

Knock yourself out Mary Poppins.

thomasaur on December 12, 2009 at 7:31 PM

Hey, fuck you! Where the fuck do you get off insulting me like that, when you know for a year I’m on your side?

You arrogant assratfuck.

Tell me, you snide POS, where I”M wrong fro trying to bring a lib to our side? YOU tell me, arrogant fuckhole.

Wanna play?

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 7:34 PM

I have the right to my own life.
AnninCA on December 12, 2009 at 4:30 PM

Do I really have to point out the irony?
Hawkins1701 on December 12, 2009 at 5:19 PM

Yes. And even then she won’t get it

tom on December 12, 2009 at 7:35 PM

atheling on December 12, 2009 at 6:04 PM

Holy crap!

Are you really not paying your taxes on moral grounds?
Personally, I think, the way things are going in this country, that a tax rebellion is going to be the only effective means of regaining control- short of a bloody revolution, which I would prefer to avoid, if possible.

Anyway, if you are really not going to pay taxes on moral grounds, you are a pioneer, and I salute you, sir.

justltl on December 12, 2009 at 7:35 PM

I see a genuine and fruitful mind there.

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 7:30 PM

Liam, aren’t the fruit flies a tip-off?

lovingmyUSA on December 12, 2009 at 7:36 PM

Wanna play?

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 7:34 PM

Mary Poppins would never talk like that.

thomasaur on December 12, 2009 at 7:36 PM

The only fruit there is rotten and past it’s expiration date, Liam.

HornetSting on December 12, 2009 at 7:32 PM

In a lot ways, I agree. But I see something more in her.

I would rather be wrong trying to bring someone closer to you and me than just throwing her away. Ann isn’t like the real trolls here. They can’t be brought to so much as an agreement to disagree.

Ann, of herself, is getting our point. Isn’t that better?

We’re not an exclusive club. But, were we to be, wouldn’t we do better growing, by changing the minds of those who opposed us so long?

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 7:38 PM

If you must adopt trolls, please have them neutered, leashed and pick up their crap.
Thank you

katy the mean funny old lady on December 12, 2009 at 7:28 PM

LMAO!

HornetSting on December 12, 2009 at 7:29 PM

+100 for katy the mean funny old lady

Geochelone on December 12, 2009 at 7:38 PM

thomasaur on December 12, 2009 at 7:31 PM
Hey, fuck you! Where the fuck do you get off insulting me like that, when you know for a year I’m on your side?

You arrogant assratfuck.

Tell me, you snide POS, where I”M wrong fro trying to bring a lib to our side? YOU tell me, arrogant fuckhole.

Wanna play?

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 7:34 PM

What the hell? I get my posts booted for typing out the word ‘a$$’.
Calm down, dude.

HornetSting on December 12, 2009 at 7:38 PM

Mary Poppins would never talk like that.

thomasaur on December 12, 2009 at 7:36 PM

Then you know I’m not Mary Poppins as I’ve been called.

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 7:39 PM

Mary Poppins would never talk like that.

thomasaur on December 12, 2009 at 7:36 PM

You never saw the outtakes when she was all liquored up on Scotch did you? It wasn’t on the Directors Cut.

Holger on December 12, 2009 at 7:39 PM

I see a genuine and fruitful mind there.

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 7:30 PM

Liam:She is still a Liberal Fembot,in the ObamaVoterBot
Brigades,and you still are cavorting with,the other
side,and yet,you still throw caution to the wind!!:)

canopfor on December 12, 2009 at 7:39 PM

What the hell? I get my posts booted for typing out the word ‘a$$’.
Calm down, dude.

HornetSting on December 12, 2009 at 7:38 PM

I was just attacked, so expect me to respond with all force.

“Calm down” is a lib term to denigrate when being called on a lib’s shit.

When attacked, I retaliate.

Instead of you ordering me to calm down against a lib attack, how about you steer clear?

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 7:41 PM

You never saw the outtakes when she was all liquored up on Scotch did you? It wasn’t on the Directors Cut.
Holger on December 12, 2009 at 7:39 PM

As a scotch drinker, I am appalled that you would think Mary Poppins would get soused and the greatest liquid ever invented.

Bourbon maybe, but scotch? Never.

Bishop on December 12, 2009 at 7:41 PM

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 7:38 PM

You can get angry with me over this if you’d like but you or will notchange Ann on this issue. That task is for God alone.

thomasaur on December 12, 2009 at 7:41 PM

I think any nurse should probably reconsider her career path if she’s opposed to a medical procedure.
Just my 2 cents.
AnninCA on December 12, 2009 at 3:51 PM

Then no one who believed abortion was wrong could be a nurse.

You have no right to make such a demand, and it takes a cold heart to ask it.

Not only is abortion not just another medical procedure, it’s the opposite of all other medical procedures. It’s the only one that deliberately destroys human life rather than try to preserve it.

tom on December 12, 2009 at 6:20 PM

Amen. I would not have had a job for the last 20 years if the world were run by AnninCA’s rules. Thankfully, abortion is a tiny part of the Ob/Gyn universe and can be generally be avoided. Most of us are in the field to support life and bring babies safely to term and participating in the deliberate destruction of those lives appeals to very few.

I have been in this nurse’s shoes and it is a horrible position to be placed in. While I refused to participate and did not end up losing my job, I can completely sympathize with the difficulty in standing up to the hostile and imperious attitudes brought to bear on her by this RN’s supervisors. As a Catholic and an NP, I pray for her victory in this case.

Though AnninCA says she doesn’t care how anyone “feels” about abortion, this is one area where the left abandons science for exactly that – feelings. There is no biological difference between the 8-week fetus that the mom wants to carry and the 8-week fetus that another mom wishes to destroy. The only difference is how each mother feels about the pregnancy. Full stop.

inmypajamas on December 12, 2009 at 7:42 PM

What the hell? I get my posts booted for typing out the word ‘a$$’.
Calm down, dude.

HornetSting on December 12, 2009 at 7:38 PM

HornetSting:Thats a ban hammer airstrike,for anyone with
the complete f words,normally!!:)

canopfor on December 12, 2009 at 7:43 PM

Mary Poppins would never talk like that.

thomasaur on December 12, 2009 at 7:36 PM

You never saw the outtakes when she was all liquored up on Scotch did you? It wasn’t on the Directors Cut.

Holger on December 12, 2009 at 7:39 PM

Hehe. Supercalifragilisticly funny.

Geochelone on December 12, 2009 at 7:43 PM

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 7:34 PM

Wow.

Bishop on December 12, 2009 at 7:43 PM

If you oppose abortion as I do, then you better be willing to endure prison time and stop paying your taxes when Obamacare passes.

atheling on December 12, 2009 at 5:33 PM

No. That’s why I’m avoiding Ob/Gyn like the plague when I get my degree.
atheling on December 12, 2009 at 5:46 PM

Are you in or applying to med school? Nice time getting admitted after you “stop paying your taxes.”

You can profess your principled stupid tax-protest but you are not honest or serious about your claims. You should be ashamed of yourself pushing potentially felonious lawbreaking as political recourse. Grow up.

Forced? Was she at gunpoint? Was someone she loved at gunpoint? No. She was threatened with her job. That was all. Her “strong moral objection” was overcome by a pink slip threat. Yeah. Strong.

Send_Me on December 12, 2009 at 5:44 PM

She made her choice.

The Race Card on December 12, 2009 at 7:44 PM

Liam:She is still a Liberal Fembot,in the ObamaVoterBot
Brigades,and you still are cavorting with,the other
side,and yet,you still throw caution to the wind!!:)

canopfor on December 12, 2009 at 7:39 PM

But I’ve seen an evolution. On abortion, she’s as she has always been.

The good things in life take a long time. And, with Ann, things are coming along.

I’m not saying I’m right, I have no claim ehre to final definitude. I’m just asking for a little back-up, a little trust and extension of faith.

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 7:44 PM

When attacked, I retaliate.

Instead of you ordering me to calm down against a lib attack, how about you steer clear?

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 7:41 PM

Excuse me? I think I was being nice by asking you to calm down. I don’t have to be.
You are dropping f-bombs and going after ‘saur with gutter language and calling him names when he simply made a comment and common sense by telling you that you are wasting your time with Ann.
Watching you try to sway Ann is entertaining, but we all know where Ann stands. She will not change, she will just keep dropping her journal style comments here, like a dog dropping turds on the lawn.
The two are worth about the same.

HornetSting on December 12, 2009 at 7:44 PM

I think another thing to consider in her fear of losing her job’s is the financial health of hospitals across the US. Through some friends who are HR personnel etc at a few hospitals in differents states my eyes have been opened to how many have been sold repeatedly, put under bank management, closed etc. We are in for a world of no care available across this country if Obamacare goes through.

journeyintothewhirlwind on December 12, 2009 at 7:45 PM

You can get angry with me over this if you’d like but you or will notchange Ann on this issue. That task is for God alone.

thomasaur on December 12, 2009 at 7:41 PM

And I testify, as a witness, it’s being done.

Maybe not to your liking.

Signed,
Mary Poppins (as YOU falsely charged against me)

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 7:47 PM

When attacked, I retaliate.

Instead of you ordering me to calm down against a lib attack, how about you steer clear?

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 7:41 PM

If calling you Mary Poppins is what you call an attack I bet you were a demon on the playground.

thomasaur on December 12, 2009 at 7:48 PM

HornetSting on December 12, 2009 at 7:44 PM

I apologize to you.

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 7:48 PM

journeyintothewhirlwind on December 12, 2009 at 7:26 PM

You mention contraception. If you look into abortion statistics, you will find that abortion is used as a contraceptive in and of itself. Many are contracepting, and when that doesn’t work they see abortion as an extension, a back-up, as many women have called it.

Speaking of contraceptives, another way the medical establishment tries to control is not to let women know that chemical contraceptives such as the pill, depo-prevera shots, nuva-ring, the patch and IUD allow ovulation and conception a certain percentage of the time. Stats say anywhere from 6-10%.

Outrageous that doctors know these forms of birth control are what is medically known as “abortifacient” contraceptives, meaning ovulation can occur and babies can be conceived, but the uterine lining is rendered inhospitable due to the hormonal imbalance caused by the contraception. Result: new life washed out because it can’t implant. How many women have been informed of this as their doctors wrote out their prescription? How many women would want to use a contraceptive that they may conceive children with, but they will never know them or see them or realize that they were ever alive, because the contraceptive killed them? Not to mention the spiritual toll that artificial contraception takes…and what about the men in the picture? What would they do if they knew that they would lose a child, not prevent a child, which takes it’s own toll on a couple, but that is for another thread or read Humanae Vitae if you are so inclined.

For more info go to http://www.ccli.org/nfp/contraception/pill.php

tigerlily on December 12, 2009 at 7:49 PM

If calling you Mary Poppins is what you call an attack I bet you were a demon on the playground.

thomasaur on December 12, 2009 at 7:48 PM

Actually, I was the kid people like beat up as part of gang, then went home and bragged about how ‘tough’ you were to your big brothers.

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 7:50 PM

Where is Mr. Lox? He has been AWOL for too long. I hope he is OK.

Geochelone on December 12, 2009 at 7:50 PM

canopfor on December 12, 2009 at 7:43 PM

Did you see the pics of the new drone craft coming off the assembly lines? The Sabre Warrior?

Holy shiite….that thing is awesome.

Bishop on December 12, 2009 at 7:51 PM

Actually, I was the kid people like beat up as part of gang, then went home and bragged about how ‘tough’ you were to your big brothers.

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 7:50 PM

I was the guy who defended kids like you from the gangs.

thomasaur on December 12, 2009 at 7:52 PM

canopfor on December 12, 2009 at 7:43 PM

Forgot the link, you have to watch a little commercial at the beginning but after that its all wonderful.

http://defensetech.org/2009/10/29/mystery-drone-revealed/

Bishop on December 12, 2009 at 7:53 PM

There is no biological difference between the 8-week fetus that the mom wants to carry and the 8-week fetus that another mom wishes to destroy. The only difference is how each mother feels about the pregnancy. Full stop.

inmypajamas on December 12, 2009 at 7:42 PM


Ding. Ding. Ding.

This is the point of truth upon which all arguments for and against abortion should be based.

The Race Card on December 12, 2009 at 7:53 PM

…and got may keester whippped right along with you sometimes.

thomasaur on December 12, 2009 at 7:54 PM

thomasaur on December 12, 2009 at 7:48 PM

I’m not looking for a fight here, but don’t you ever DARE seek to denigrate me.

We okay, friend?

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 7:54 PM

may s/b my

thomasaur on December 12, 2009 at 7:55 PM

I was the guy who defended kids like you from the gangs.

thomasaur on December 12, 2009 at 7:52 PM

You both sound like a couple of rarefied pansies.

The Race Card on December 12, 2009 at 7:55 PM

I was the guy who defended kids like you from the gangs.

thomasaur on December 12, 2009 at 7:52 PM

Then we reduce from a combat and be cool?

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 7:56 PM

Ann, of herself, is getting our point. Isn’t that better?

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 7:38 PM

Why would you think that–when you aren’t getting ours?

lovingmyUSA on December 12, 2009 at 7:57 PM

Then we reduce from a combat and be cool?

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 7:56 PM

We’re good, no offense intended or taken.

thomasaur on December 12, 2009 at 7:58 PM

The Race Card on December 12, 2009 at 7:55 PM

Ah, yes! The lib-at-large who doesn’t know how real men resolve problems!

We don’t need the UN. You libs do.

BTW–calling us ‘pansies’ shows you hate gays, you bigot.

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 8:00 PM

We’re good, no offense intended or taken.

thomasaur on December 12, 2009 at 7:58 PM

Thanks!

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 8:00 PM

HornetSting on December 12, 2009 at 7:44 PM

I apologize to you.

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 7:48 PM

Smart move. Yo don’t wanna be messin’ with da Hornet, not if you value your life.

BTW, I don’t totally disagree with you Liam. It seems to me that our favorite concern troll has various modes which has lead me to certain speculations, among them;

1. she is true schizo
2. more than one person is posting under that handle

Even Stephen King could not mask his writing style when he attempted to use a pen name; but a schizo can do just that because they have compartmentalized personalities, hence speculation #1. Haven’t you noticed the alterations in cadence, structure, format, word choice, topic focus, frequency etc.?

I think you are trying to rehab just one of these personas. Just keep your eyes wide open bro.

Geochelone on December 12, 2009 at 8:01 PM

She will not change, she will just keep dropping her journal style comments here, like a dog dropping turds on the lawn.
The two are worth about the same.

HornetSting on December 12, 2009 at 7:44 PM

Or bird sh*t on your windshield…

lovingmyUSA on December 12, 2009 at 8:02 PM

Why would you think that–when you aren’t getting ours?

lovingmyUSA on December 12, 2009 at 7:57 PM

Oh, you are missing ME so widely much.

What am I missing?

Remember now: I HATE libs and everyone here knows that. Where would you like to start?

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 8:02 PM

Abortion is legal in America. This is a free country. You are free to leave. I do think it is beautiful, however in the way you where able to weave free market capitalism in to an essay on morality and duty. My hat is off to you.

Observation on December 12, 2009 at 8:08 PM

Ah, yes! The lib-at-large who doesn’t know how real men resolve problems!

We don’t need the UN. You libs do.

BTW–calling us ‘pansies’ shows you hate gays, you bigot.

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 8:00 PM

What exactly do I believe that makes me a liberal? Please feel free to use my own words against me.

Your need to accuse me of being a liberal because I challenge you or insult you is childish. You, nor any of your buffoonish-ilk, are ordained or otherwise designated as arbiters of conservatism.

I’m comfortable with my political views. Your need to label me and others bespeaks your own lack of security and the need for group-validation.

You’re not so sad as you are obvious.

The Race Card on December 12, 2009 at 8:11 PM

BTW–calling us ‘pansies’ shows you hate gays, you bigot.

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 8:00 PM

Sorry, dude. I don’t equate being gay with being a pansy. You reveal your inner-thoughts and personal connotations about the word.

I think you and your pansy friends have the same rights as my gay ones.

The Race Card on December 12, 2009 at 8:14 PM

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 8:02 PM

One word–Ann…

lovingmyUSA on December 12, 2009 at 8:15 PM

canopfor on December 12, 2009 at 7:43 PM
Did you see the pics of the new drone craft coming off the assembly lines? The Sabre Warrior?

Holy shiite….that thing is awesome.

Bishop on December 12, 2009 at 7:51 PM

Bishop:No I haven’t! Got a linky,and sorry for not respond
ing sooner!:)

canopfor on December 12, 2009 at 8:19 PM

The Race Card on December 12, 2009 at 8:11 PM

You display yourself; exact quotes aren’t necessary. And if anyone here posts them, you seem the type to make a stir to battle them, to endless argument.

You know what you are and, realistically, other are aware of you as well.

Some might want to play the game you seek to impose, but others just aren’t interested.

You’re not so sad as you are obvious.

Yes, I’m totally obvious. And everyone here knows it, everyone here knows what I believe and who and what I hate. I make no bones about any of it.

You, on the other hand, want ‘proof’ and ‘quotes’ and ‘evidence’ to seek your brand of both denial and/or absolution.

I won’t play your game. I’ll get you later, by your own words when you later post them.

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 8:19 PM

A brilliant, to-the-point spot-on article. Thank you Cassy
Fiano.

liberty0 on December 12, 2009 at 8:20 PM

One word–Ann…

lovingmyUSA on December 12, 2009 at 8:15 PM

I like her mind, right or wrong.

My politics are clear.

How about working with me as I am, and leaving Ann as a sideline that part of my personal life and not part of yours?

Can I get some liberty here from you?

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 8:22 PM

You display yourself; exact quotes aren’t necessary. And if anyone here posts them, you seem the type to make a stir to battle them, to endless argument.

You know what you are and, realistically, other are aware of you as well.

Some might want to play the game you seek to impose, but others just aren’t interested.

cop out

I won’t play your game. I’ll get you later, by your own words when you later post them.

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 8:19 PM

You can’t back up what you say. You lose.

The Race Card on December 12, 2009 at 8:24 PM

Crickets chirping…

atheling on December 12, 2009 at 6:10 PM

Uh huh

Where’d you run to atheling?

AsianGirlInTights on December 12, 2009 at 8:27 PM

Sorry, dude. I don’t equate being gay with being a pansy. You reveal your inner-thoughts and personal connotations about the word.

I think you and your pansy friends have the same rights as my gay ones.

The Race Card on December 12, 2009 at 8:14 PM

Sorry on you, really. You’re quite uninformed.

Calling someone a ‘pansy’ is to insult gays.

Of course you won’t see that, to justify yourself. You really know nothing about the real world, do you?

Walk into a gay bar here in the Allentown part of Buffalo and say, ‘you’re all a bunch of pansies!’ and see who’s able to walk out of the bar for being such a jerk.

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 8:28 PM

The Race Card on December 12, 2009 at 8:24 PM

Ah, yes! You win, right?

Okay, you win

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 8:29 PM

The Race Card on December 12, 2009 at 8:24 PM

You need to win. I don’t need to win this debate to have personal value.

It’s all cool! You be the man!

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 8:31 PM

I think any nurse should probably reconsider her career path if she’s opposed to a medical procedure.
Just my 2 cents.
AnninCA on December 12, 2009 at 3:51 PM

So when Obama and his ilk pass assisted suicide laws, all nurses should be morally obligated to help people kill themselves. Sure. No problem.

Do me a favor, huh? Keep your two pennies to yourself. They’re dented and will jam the machine.

Squiggy on December 12, 2009 at 8:36 PM

The survival rate for 22 weekers is zero. If you read of a “22 week” or “one pound” or “5 month” fetus surviving, it was intra-uterine growth retarded and was that SIZE but a more advanced gestational age. You could have a 28 week pregnancy that is the size of a 22 week pregnancy, and they are born and act like 28 weekers. 22 weeks is non-viable. 28 weeks is viable.

Do you get your medical information off the back of cracker jack boxes? There has been at least one child born prior to 22 weeks gestation, and the current accepted “limit of viability” (i.e. greater than 50% chance of survival) is 24 weeks. By the time you reach 28 weeks survival rate is over 90%.

wdomburg on December 12, 2009 at 8:38 PM

I don’t need to win this debate to have personal value.

It’s all cool! You be the man!

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 8:31 PM

We get it. You’ve never flown an umbrella, and you can take a punch.

Shame you won’t be around much longer

/sarcoff

Squiggy on December 12, 2009 at 8:39 PM

I think any nurse should probably reconsider her career path if she’s opposed to a medical procedure.
Just my 2 cents.
AnninCA on December 12, 2009 at 3:51 PM

Oh yeah. I forgot – google “amputees by choice”. I’m sure you’d have no problems there either.

Squiggy on December 12, 2009 at 8:42 PM

Kensington on December 12, 2009 at 4:47 PM

Sensitive to the term “holier than thou,” I take it. I apologize for the disrespectful offense that provoked the slightly sarcastic response of a good Catholic who would have undoubtedly responded better than the nurse did in that situation.

unclesmrgol on December 12, 2009 at 7:08 PM

Good job finding the actual complaint, unclesmrgol.

I wonder if precedents exist of Muslims, Jews, etc., who were pressured under duress to perform medical procedures which went against their beliefs.

What about those Muslim taxi drivers in MN who wouldn’t take passengers who brought alcohol and guide dogs in the cab? Or is that comparing apples to oranges? Granny Smith to Fuji? Should the Muslim cabbies change their professions?

CO2 Producer on December 12, 2009 at 8:43 PM

As a scotch drinker, I am appalled that you would think Mary Poppins would get soused and the greatest liquid ever invented.

Bourbon maybe, but scotch? Never.

Bishop on December 12, 2009 at 7:41 PM

I think we all know it’s from too much of that Rum Punch “cough medicine.” A spoonfull of sugar, my @$$.

DrAllecon on December 12, 2009 at 8:45 PM

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 8:28 PM

Save your straw man. I’m not insulting gays. Get off of it. Your need to paint me as bigoted is truly absurd.

I didn’t walk into a gay bar and spew insults. I sat right here and insulted you. Quit changing the topic. Don’t go looking in gay bars for backup.

My views on gays and homosexuality are well documented herein at HA. But hey, I guess I could be bigoted against gays and simultaneously advocate for their right to marry a loving partner. Normally, I leave such glaring inconsistencies to the dogmatic, poisoned-partisans. But just to tickle your fancy, let’s imagine me being anti-gay. (Jeopardy theme)

Hmmm. That was fun.

The Race Card on December 12, 2009 at 9:02 PM

If they picked her out of spite it is a horrible thing. But, she knows what her job entails and that this might happen. It is a field that they can’t always choose who they treat.

tomas on December 12, 2009 at 9:02 PM

tigerlily on December 12, 2009 at 7:49 PM

So salting the field and preventing a seed from taking root is murder? Should we outlaw condoms as well as I am sure sperm go smacking into that latex at sperm lethal velocity, plus condoms got spermicide which kills the sperm which is murder of half a person. And diaphragms gotta go, it is just plain mean that we put barriers infront of those little struggling swimmers and prevent them from reaching their goal. And we should outlaw the withdraw method as we are teasing those poor swimmers.

Holger on December 12, 2009 at 9:04 PM

why not just perfom the abortion on the “doctor”?

[in case no one noticed, I'm not chuckling]

urbancenturion on December 12, 2009 at 9:04 PM

The nurse “forced” to participate had a choice and she chose to participate in the abortion. She could have refused in spite of threats to her job and chosen to face whatever the consequences of her refusal but she did not.

redslippers on December 12, 2009 at 9:04 PM

I think they “forced” her by claiming it was an emergency. Then, when she realized it probably wasn’t, she was already in there and felt unable to turn back. I don’t know, authority figures can be assholes! She was forced.

gina4 on December 12, 2009 at 9:13 PM

You be the man!

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 8:31 PM

Interesting, you don’t seem to have used that particular phrasing at HA before now. I’m honored you chose me as the object for your urbane colloquialism.

I know. I know. Your statement has nothing to do with race.

The Race Card on December 12, 2009 at 9:19 PM

Holger on December 12, 2009 at 9:04 PM

Will we have to outlaw men from eating things that affect their sperm output or require them to regulate the temp of their testes otherwise they’ll kill a couple of hundred million half-humans?

Holger on December 12, 2009 at 9:21 PM

redslippers on December 12, 2009 at 9:04 PM

Did you read the complaint? I didn’t think so.

brave person you are, secure in your job, secure in the ability to get a new job, secure in the thoughts of providing food and sustenance for your children.

Not all of us, in the heat of battle, are so brave as to fall on our swords. She has been blacklisted as a result of her stand, by both the hospital and the union which supposedly represents her, and is in essence unemployed. She is suing, as is her right under the Church Amendment.

unclesmrgol on December 12, 2009 at 9:21 PM

I’m in NY. Put me on the Jury.

diogenes on December 12, 2009 at 9:25 PM

Liam on December 12, 2009 at 8:22 PM

Just hoping you don’t get burned, nothing personal…

lovingmyUSA on December 12, 2009 at 9:37 PM

Liam, how can you defend a person who thinks killing a baby, an actual born baby, is her “choice”? She is a cold hearted witch! They put people in jail for less. What is wrong with you?

gina4 on December 12, 2009 at 9:40 PM

I wouldn’t have helped…I don’t care if I would have lost my job.

tomas on December 12, 2009 at 9:42 PM

Has anyone actually seen an abortion at this stage? Either they induce labor and it dies in the process, or they pull it out piece by piece. The first way, any idiot will discover, hey, that’s a baby! The second way, any idiot will vomit at the carnege. A choice, my ass!! It’s pure murder.

gina4 on December 12, 2009 at 9:43 PM

So salting the field and preventing a seed from taking root is murder? Should we outlaw condoms as well as I am sure sperm go smacking into that latex at sperm lethal velocity, plus condoms got spermicide which kills the sperm which is murder of half a person. And diaphragms gotta go, it is just plain mean that we put barriers infront of those little struggling swimmers and prevent them from reaching their goal. And we should outlaw the withdraw method as we are teasing those poor swimmers.

Holger on December 12, 2009 at 9:04 PM

Don’t be an a$$. It’s anyone’s choice whether or not they wish to conform to the Natural Law. We do have free will, and if you choose to march lockstep into hell, you have every right to do so.

Same thing with contraception as with abortion. Violate Natural Law and live with the consequences. Simple as that.

tcn on December 12, 2009 at 10:10 PM

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