Coal industry already under attack before EPA “finding”

posted at 2:55 pm on December 9, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

The announcement of new powers to regulate carbon dioxide will allow the EPA to hammer the energy sector, particularly coal production and coal-burning electrical plants.  However, environmental activists have hardly sat silent on the sidelines before the EPA “finding” that carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases are a danger to human health.  As KDKA in Pennsylvania reports from deep within coal country, nuisance lawsuits over mining cost Bickmore, West Virginia 500 jobs this week:

Consol Energy will lay off nearly 500 workers and idle a mountaintop removal mining operation near Bickmore.

Pittsburgh-based Consol notified workers Tuesday. The action affects 104 miners at Little Eagle Coal Co. and 378 at Fola Coal Co.

The layoffs will begin Feb. 7 and be completed within 14 days.

Consol blames the shutdown on a legal challenge the Ohio Valley Environmental Coalition mounted to permits granted under the federal Clean Water Act.

U.S. District Judge Robert Chambers recently suspended Fola’s permit for the Ike Fork portions of its operations. The order is effective Jan. 23.

West Virginia’s unemployment rate has nearly doubled from a year ago.  The effort to block coal mining by activists have made it much more expensive for energy producers to retrieve this resource.  That will not only make it more difficult to keep people employed, it will raise the prices of energy on everyone else as well.  If the coal industry comes under sustained attack not just from these activists but the federal government, the people of West Virginia should prepare themselves for a long period of increased unemployment and related secondary business failures.

Any economic recovery relies not just on job stability, but a commensurate decline in expenses in relation to revenues in order to allow for better opportunities for investment.  If prices of energy continue to rise while revenues fall, businesses won’t have the ability to expand.  And with the EPA signaling a much tougher environment for the manufacturing sector, businesses will already be less inclined to prepare for manufacturing expansion regardless of the product.

We need government to encourage expansion, and helping to provide lower-cost energy is a big part of that.  Instead, we’re heading back into the 1970s cycle of energy price shocks, unemployment, and stagnation.  West Virginia, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Kentucky, and other coal-belt states will be at the epicenter of the economic malaise that follows.


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If the federal government makes cars that emit enough pollution to say, raise asthma rates in big cities, id consider that OK.

ernesto on December 9, 2009 at 3:44 PM

I am sure that was not what you intended to convey, but that sure is funny in a sad way.

WashJeff on December 9, 2009 at 4:01 PM

darwin on December 9, 2009 at 3:57 PM

Stalin? Really? Why bother trying to reasonably discuss an issue if you feel the current occupant in the white house is closer to Stalin than LBJ?

ernesto on December 9, 2009 at 4:03 PM

The leadership may not say much. I suspect the rank and file will sing a different tune next November.

tgharris on December 9, 2009 at 3:36 PM
Nah. They’ll vote Democrat, because the Dems will promise them a handout. Why work when you can beg for scraps from Uncle Sam’s table?

hawksruleva on December 9, 2009 at 3:48 PM

Really. The union people you know and the one’s I know are quite different. Now, are a lot of the union members I know politically naive? Yep. Are they begging scrap scroungers? Not hardly.

tgharris on December 9, 2009 at 4:03 PM

I am sure that was not what you intended to convey, but that sure is funny in a sad way.

WashJeff on December 9, 2009 at 4:01 PM

Yeah, idk how i missed the operative word in that phrase…federal government makes cars that emit enough pollution more expensive. lol its been that kinda day.

ernesto on December 9, 2009 at 4:04 PM

Bleeds Blue on December 9, 2009 at 3:27 PM

Do you support the EPA finding?

chemman on December 9, 2009 at 3:38 PM

Yes.

I’m right there with you on nuclear power(although I don’t support eliminating coal from the equation). The problem is these same environmental extremists who wanna stop all coal production are opposed to nuclear.

We can’t power this nation on solar, wind, hydro, and biofuels alone. Not unless you want power shortages and an electric bill that costs 10 times more than your current one.

Doughboy on December 9, 2009 at 3:46 PM

Right. But the “extremists” are certainly a minority in the country and possibly even among the 53% who voted for Obama.

And correct again. That’s why no one, even Obama, is looking for a gradual change. Coal is dirty to mine and dirty to burn. Especially as demand grows, it will be increasingly damaging to the environment, from hunting habitat destroyed to increasing asthma in children. Oil pumps money into the hands of all the wrong people (ie the Russians, I’m not trashing Exxon here) and we’re never going to drill our way out of dependency.

So let’s start now with a comprehensive and serious effort ti change the equation.

Today’s liberal is nothing more than an offspring of the early progressives. Do you know the history of progressivism? Is that what you want to be attached to?

Women’s sufferage, wage and hour laws, attacks on corruption, efforts to end the squalor in inner cities? I’ll buy into that.

Bleeds Blue on December 9, 2009 at 4:07 PM

Mountaintop removal is an abomination and should be banned. If the coal can’t be economically removed by another means, it should stay in the ground. There is a level of damage done during extraction that’s simply not tolerable, and mountaintop mining exceeds it.

Bleeds Blue on December 9, 2009 at 3:09 PM

Another lefty, urbanite who spent 90% of his pampered life on carpet or concrete is lecturing everyone else on the “environment”. Hey I thought you lib pukes foamed at the mouth when the government was used to enforce someone else’s morality? See, you are much worse than those evil fundies you whine incessantly about.

As has been pointed out, you need to shut down your computer and never use a car or electrical outlet again to have any sort of credibility. But like most of your ilk, you are unwilling to suffer the slightest inconvenience when it comes to practicing what your preach.

ClassicCon on December 9, 2009 at 4:08 PM

Guys, I wouldn’t be so quick to jump on the nuclear power bandwagon either. Earlier this year the congress shut down Yucca Mountain, which was supposed the storage area for our spent nuclear fuel. As a result many nuclear power plants are facing the problem of having no where to store or send their spent fuel which may force them to shut down also.

Now might be a good time to become friends with somebody who has a fireplace since soon they will be the only ones with light and heat. Until the EPA police show up.

Just A Grunt on December 9, 2009 at 4:08 PM

Stalin? Really? Why bother trying to reasonably discuss an issue if you feel the current occupant in the white house is closer to Stalin than LBJ?

ernesto on December 9, 2009 at 4:03 PM

Why try to have a reasonable discussion if you think Obama isn’t doing everything he can to destroy our Republic and reinvent it. I mean come on … the guy is a die hard Marxist. He hates our way of life and hates this country.

LBJ was no saint. Everything the democrats have done in the past is leading to a final push.

darwin on December 9, 2009 at 4:09 PM

Perhaps the Marxist in Chief will make his next speech in WV informing the poor suckers who voted for the clown how many jobs he has created or saved ?

Sandybourne on December 9, 2009 at 4:10 PM

So does that mean we can count on EPA drones to wear plastic bags on their heads?

tarpon on December 9, 2009 at 4:12 PM

attacks on corruption
Bleeds Blue on December 9, 2009 at 4:07 PM

How does one attack corruption by consolidating power? Sure seems to me that history shows the bigger the government, the easier it is to be corrupt and\or wasteful.

Would it not be more “progressive” to promote power to the people by not taking (minimizing the taking) their wealth? How can a politician be corrupt without money and power?

WashJeff on December 9, 2009 at 4:13 PM

Women’s sufferage, wage and hour laws, attacks on corruption, efforts to end the squalor in inner cities? I’ll buy into that.

Bleeds Blue on December 9, 2009 at 4:07 PM

What an amazing success you guys had with those.

Mission Accomplished!

ClassicCon on December 9, 2009 at 4:13 PM

Women’s sufferage, wage and hour laws, attacks on corruption, efforts to end the squalor in inner cities? I’ll buy into that.

Bleeds Blue on December 9, 2009 at 4:07 PM

Progressives have very few positive points. Attacks on corruption? Seriously? Inner city squalor? The worst cities in America have been run by “liberals” for decades. Rife with corruption, and the inner cities are yes, still in squalor.

But what about the negatives? The entire history of progressivism, or liberalism … has been an incremental destruction of freedom and liberty in this country, replacing it with a bigger, and more corrupt government.

The driving force is not altruistic … it’s power and money.

darwin on December 9, 2009 at 4:15 PM

Thanks to progressives we also got the 16th and 17th amendments. 1913 was a very very bad year.

WashJeff on December 9, 2009 at 4:17 PM

Why try to have a reasonable discussion if you think Obama isn’t doing everything he can to destroy our Republic and reinvent it. darwin on December 9, 2009 at 4:09 PM

That’s just not being reasonable though. One can argue that Obama is a really poor president, that his policies are all misguided, that he’s actually an idiot…but that hes doing everything he can to destroy our republic!? Thats, thats just not a reasonable thing to say.

ernesto on December 9, 2009 at 4:20 PM

Just A Grunt on December 9, 2009 at 4:08 PM

I wouldn’t worry too much about Yucca Mountain. The industry pretty much solved their long term expended fuel storage problem a couple of decades ago. Here’s a link explaining it. A couple of friends of mine were actually in on pioneering the concept and were instrumental in setting up the first facility of it’s type in the country. It’s actually referred to as an interim solution good for about six decades. In reality the casks can sit there for just about forever. They take up very little space and require almost no care or maintenance.

Oldnuke on December 9, 2009 at 4:20 PM

Thanks to progressives we also got the 16th and 17th amendments. 1913 was a very very bad year.

WashJeff on December 9, 2009 at 4:17 PM

Progressivism was birthed from communism. The progressives supported Stalin and supported Hitler. Hitler corresponded with American progressives about their eugenic programs and ideas.

This is the pedigree of the modern liberal. Bill Ayers is just one example in many of the modern communist that has infiltrated our society. I cannot for the life of me understand what today’s liberals see in communism.

darwin on December 9, 2009 at 4:21 PM

Consol Energy will lay off nearly 500 workers

How many of those UMW voted for 0bama? This is their just punishment.

Lou Budvis on December 9, 2009 at 4:21 PM

but that hes doing everything he can to destroy our republic!? Thats, thats just not a reasonable thing to say.

ernesto on December 9, 2009 at 4:20 PM

EPA – It’s all about “command and control”

They seem to disagree.

lorien1973 on December 9, 2009 at 4:22 PM

Oil pumps money into the hands of all the wrong people (ie the Russians, I’m not trashing Exxon here) and we’re never going to drill our way out of dependency.

This is a myth you can keep repeating if you’d like. If it helps.

lorien1973 on December 9, 2009 at 4:23 PM

Mountaintop removal Abortion is an abomination and should be banned. If the coal baby can’t be economically removed by another means is of no danger to the mother, it should stay in the ground mother. There is a level of damage done during extraction that’s simply not tolerable, and mountaintop mining abortion exceeds it.

Bleeds Blue on December 9, 2009 at 3:09 PM

Like shooting fish in a barrel.

uknowmorethanme on December 9, 2009 at 4:24 PM

Coal is dirty to mine and dirty to burn. Especially as demand grows, it will be increasingly damaging to the environment, from hunting habitat destroyed to increasing asthma in children. Oil pumps money into the hands of all the wrong people (ie the Russians, I’m not trashing Exxon here) and we’re never going to drill our way out of dependency.
Bleeds Blue on December 9, 2009 at 4:07 PM

The United States has more hydrocarbons than any other country. New technology provides ways to gasify coal in-situ. And yes we do have enough hydrocarbon energy resources to be completely independent. The answer IS drill, baby, drill. AND utilize other resources as well.

infidel on December 9, 2009 at 4:24 PM

That’s just not being reasonable though. One can argue that Obama is a really poor president, that his policies are all misguided, that he’s actually an idiot…but that hes doing everything he can to destroy our republic!? Thats, thats just not a reasonable thing to say.

ernesto on December 9, 2009 at 4:20 PM

How many examples can you show me where he has praised this country? Where he has promoted capitalism? Anything at all where he has vaguely implied that he’s proud to be an American?

You refusing to see what’s happening right in front of your face doesn’t make me unreasonable.

darwin on December 9, 2009 at 4:24 PM

Thanks to progressives we also got the 16th and 17th amendments. 1913 was a very very bad year.

WashJeff on December 9, 2009 at 4:17 PM

19th was where it really went downhill. :-)

Oldnuke on December 9, 2009 at 4:25 PM

Consol Energy will lay off nearly 500 workers
How many of those UMW voted for 0bama? This is their just punishment.

Lou Budvis on December 9, 2009 at 4:21 PM

With all due respect, I’m into learning. And I hope these people learn enough that the likes of Obama (and Reid and Pelosi) are never in power again.

tgharris on December 9, 2009 at 4:25 PM

Oil pumps money into the hands of all the wrong people (ie the Russians, I’m not trashing Exxon here) and we’re never going to drill our way out of dependency.
//

Yeah, because we are not permitted to drill our way out of dependency and instead must buy EVERYTHING from the internationl racket.

This is like implementing job killing legislation and then complaining about corporations sending jobs over seas. Oh wait.

uknowmorethanme on December 9, 2009 at 4:27 PM

19th was where it really went downhill. :-)

Oldnuke on December 9, 2009 at 4:25 PM

You can have fun discussing that topic (i.e., keeping it light), and I do, but you cannot blame women for the 16th and 17th.

WashJeff on December 9, 2009 at 4:30 PM

infidel on December 9, 2009 at 4:24 PM

The amount of energy in this country is amazing! In my state…

Illinois’ coal reserves contain more Btu’s than the oil reserves of Saudi Arabia and Kuwait (link).

WashJeff on December 9, 2009 at 4:34 PM

Why bother trying to reasonably discuss an issue if you feel the current occupant in the white house is closer to Stalin than LBJ?

ernesto on December 9, 2009 at 4:03 PM

Stalin had no tolerance for dissent, neither does Obama. They’re a lot closer than you think.

angryed on December 9, 2009 at 4:34 PM

You can have fun discussing that topic (i.e., keeping it light), and I do, but you cannot blame women for the 16th and 17th.

WashJeff on December 9, 2009 at 4:30 PM

Yeah I know…as much as I’d like to blame it on women I realize that in the end they were Bush’s fault.

Oldnuke on December 9, 2009 at 4:37 PM

LBJ was no saint. Everything the democrats have done in the past is leading to a final push.

darwin on December 9, 2009 at 4:09 PM

LBJ, Carter and Clinton were quasi-Marxists. But I think all 3 at least had some respect for the country and its citizens, only had different ideas on what was best for the country.

Obam outright hates everything about America. Comparing him to LBJ is an insult to LBJ.

angryed on December 9, 2009 at 4:37 PM

Yeah I know…as much as I’d like to blame it on women I realize that in the end they were Bush’s fault.

Oldnuke on December 9, 2009 at 4:37 PM

Damn that Samuel Prescott Bush!!!

WashJeff on December 9, 2009 at 4:45 PM

Illinois’ coal reserves contain more Btu’s than the oil reserves of Saudi Arabia and Kuwait (link).

WashJeff on December 9, 2009 at 4:34 PM

Here’s a map showing the coal reserves of the entire US.

USGS Coal Map

We’ve got a lot of coal in this country.

Oldnuke on December 9, 2009 at 4:45 PM

Right. But the “extremists” are certainly a minority in the country and possibly even among the 53% who voted for Obama.

And correct again. That’s why no one, even Obama, is looking for a gradual change. Coal is dirty to mine and dirty to burn. Especially as demand grows, it will be increasingly damaging to the environment, from hunting habitat destroyed to increasing asthma in children. Oil pumps money into the hands of all the wrong people (ie the Russians, I’m not trashing Exxon here) and we’re never going to drill our way out of dependency.

Bleeds Blue on December 9, 2009 at 4:07 PM

Spoken by someone who, IMHO, obviously does not understand one whit regarding coal power generation technology.

First, let me say this: I completely support nuclear power – both Integral Fast Reactors and Accelerator Driven Subcritical Reactors.

That being said, two points of which you either are completely unaware, or else dismiss out of hand – in either case, I hope that you are willing to consider facts in making up your mind rather than talking points.

The first item is, the Clean Air Act 1990 worked. Look at each state listing for the 31 states that have nuclear reactors operating, where the US Energy Information Administration (EIA) provides airborne emissions data for the state.

The individual pages track sulfur dioxide emissions (SO2) and oxides of nitrogen (NOx)from 1989 to 2004. In almost every case, emissions of these two pollutants – both known to cause significant health and environmental problems (sulfur dioxide is known to contribute to acid rain – something you don’t hear much about anymore, btw; and oxides of nitrogen, which cause respiratory issues) have decreased since 1995 – in some states, by up to 50%. These are gases, again, that are known to cause demonstrable, measurable harm to both human health and the environment.

Which, by the way, nuclear power plants emit none of these gases. Nor do they emit carbon dioxide either, if you care about that bullsh!t.

And this brings me to my second point. I used to do quite a bit of business with one division of Bechtel a few years ago. One of my contacts there was an executive who was personally involved with building and commissioning coal fired power stations in China. At that time (2006), the Chinese were adding one new coal fired power station per week.

Now, guess what the lovely Chinese did to their own people in virtually every town where a new coal power station was brought on-line?

C’mon, you can guess. Hint: photographs of Chinese walking in towns where the air is so grey that visibility is no more than a half mile, and the townspeople are wearing rags over their faces to try to not breathe in the crap floating in the air around them.

That’s right. I knew you were a smart fellow.

The Chinese disconnect the baghouses and other emissions controls on those facilities which prevent sulfur dioxide, oxides of nitrogen, fluoride, and fly ash from polluting the air. The result is black smoke pouring out of the smokestacks there like what you would have seen in the US back in the 1950′s.

Oh, and guess what? All that particulate crap going into the air, soaked with sulfur dioxide, gets caught up into the jet stream and is carried aloft over the Pacific Ocean.

To the good ole’ USA.

That’s right, my good Democrat man: if you live on the West Coast, you are breathing Chinese pollution.

Enjoy it!

And know that the US cleaned up its act regarding coal stations years ago. That’s why you don’t hear about the scourge of acid rain anymore.

Now before you rush to a judgment that puts thousands of people out of work and eliminates chances for people to better themselves in life, you just might want to delve into the facts a bit deeper than you have to-date.

Capiche?

Wanderlust on December 9, 2009 at 4:55 PM

LBJ, Carter and Clinton were quasi-Marxists. But I think all 3 at least had some respect for the country and its citizens, only had different ideas on what was best for the country.

angryed on December 9, 2009 at 4:37 PM

They were also southerners, who although they might have disagreed with their fellow regionalists, understood them and had them as friends and family.

0bama, on the other hand, has no real connection with the South or even the MO-MS-OH river system that has produced so
many presidents. They say AK is different than the 48, but HI is also very different than the 48. If the GOP does well in ’10, don’t expect him to be able to re-calibrate like Slick Willie. Slick understood a great deal about how many Americans think, even if he thought he was smarter than them.

Lou Budvis on December 9, 2009 at 4:56 PM

Mountaintop removal is an abomination and should be banned. If the coal can’t be economically removed by another means, it should stay in the ground. There is a level of damage done during extraction that’s simply not tolerable, and mountaintop mining exceeds it.

Bleeds Blue on December 9, 2009 at 3:09 PM

Mountains are pretty, and people don’t like to see pretty things destroyed, and we don’t like to see cute animals killed. I happen to be one of those people.

On the other hand, the Earth has obliterated vast regions with volcanic lava, has scoured global coastal areas with tsunamis, has been through numerous ice ages, and has endured mass extinctions from massive asteroid impacts.

Earth abides while baby gazelles are ripped in half by hyenas.

The Earth doesn’t care when we remove mountaintops, and it doesn’t care when we choose to reclaim mined mountaintops. The Earth doesn’t care how we redecorate the place or whether or not we clean up our messes, or even if we survive at all.

Keep it in perspective: The Earth does not consider any of this an “abomination”. It is purely human aesthetics to consider it an “abomination”.

ZenDraken on December 9, 2009 at 5:00 PM

I’ll buy into that.

Bleeds Blue on December 9, 2009 at 4:07 PM

That’s how Bernie Maddoff made his money…suckers who would “buy into that”.
Wage wars…so I am running a business, and I moved everyone to 10 hr. days, it saved on setup charges, and gave my employees a chance to work 4 days, then some even worked a second job, Friday thru Sunday…I had Friday a non-production day for machine maint., and eventually set up a 3 day/12 hour period.
The state stepped in and said I had to pay time and 1/2 for everything over 8 hours in a shift…and I had to give them an extra 1/2, and on and on…so I sent them back to 8 hours, 5 days…they lost income from the other jobs, they really enjoyed the 3 days off…and I ended up laying off a 3 day, 12 hour shift over the three day weekend.
Lost production, lost hours, lost wages, lost taxes to the state…with no pay back to the state, besides providing a job for a state employee…
You and your liberals friends are so naive about government and its intrusion…so naive about the real cost of government…that what makes a liberal, just plain stupidity.

right2bright on December 9, 2009 at 5:03 PM

Which, by the way, nuclear power plants emit none of these gases. Nor do they emit carbon dioxide either, if you care about that bullsh!t.

Actually nuclear power plants do emit fairly large amounts of carbon dioxide occasionally. Not in the way anyone who’s unfamiliar with power plants in general would ever think about though.

Oldnuke on December 9, 2009 at 5:03 PM

Mountaintop removal is an abomination and should be banned. If the coal can’t be economically removed by another means, it should stay in the ground. There is a level of damage done during extraction that’s simply not tolerable, and mountaintop mining exceeds it.

Bleeds Blue on December 9, 2009 at 3:09 PM

So you are against volcanoes? They should be outlawed…one of the thing that amazes me, is how a liberal never understands that humans are part of nature…we take things apart, and we put them back together.
Yeah, removing coal is a sin against what? Nature, well we are nature, so what have we done wrong? That has never been explained to me…we cut a tree down, but we grow a tree. We “scar” the landscape, but what did a glacier do? Don’t be foolish and weepy eyed…we are part of nature, and what we build, create, and use we have just as much right to as the cute little chipmunk in the tree.

right2bright on December 9, 2009 at 5:08 PM

Wanderlust on December 9, 2009 at 4:55 PM

Of course some AGW types are thinking of putting the SO2 back in the air to cool the planet.

WashJeff on December 9, 2009 at 5:10 PM

Actually nuclear power plants do emit fairly large amounts of carbon dioxide occasionally. Not in the way anyone who’s unfamiliar with power plants in general would ever think about though.

Oldnuke on December 9, 2009 at 5:03 PM

Fascinating. I have a cursory familiarity with power generation from having worked around engineers involved in various aspects of powerplant design and maintenance. Still, I’m no engineer. My area of expertise is sourcing and contracts.

So how do nuke plants emit the dreaded CO2? I’m curious, for the hell of it.

:)

Wanderlust on December 9, 2009 at 5:21 PM

right2bright on December 9, 2009 at 5:08 PM

In my experience, people like that ascribe “morality” to anything that has no consequence to themselves or their own choices/behavior. Bonus if holding certain views makes them feel morally superior to everyone else.

Someone else removing a mountaintop? Immoral.

Someone else wanting to kill a baby in the womb? Choice.

Now, let’s put a fine point to it.

Someone else removing a mountaintop in the US? Immoral.

Someone else removing a mountaintop in China? (crickets)

Drilling for new oil in the US? Immoral.

Using oil drilled in places where there are no environmental controls? (crickets)

Someone else wanting to kill a baby in the womb, in the US? Choice.

Someone else wanting to allow the spread of malaria in Africa because of dubious science regarding DDT use (where millions of children die annually)? Necessary to protect the Earth from overpopulation.

See how easy it is to practice the so-called morality of the liberal?

Wanderlust on December 9, 2009 at 5:30 PM

It’s not just WV that is suffering the consequences of the CO2 mania. I live 12 miles from Wyoming which has a lot of coal burning power plants and also coal and natural gas mining. (No mountains are harmed in the mining of these resources in Wyoming. And any ground that is disturbed is reclaimed.) The economy there is tanking and those very high paying jobs are going out the window. You can talk about letting all of these people work at building nuclear power plants all you want but it would be years before one got past the planning stages. These people need jobs NOW.

Lily on December 9, 2009 at 5:32 PM

Wanderlust on December 9, 2009 at 5:21 PM

First let me clarify this is not unique to nuclear plants. Large electrical generators have an atmosphere of hydrogen inside of them. Better cooling characteristics and less friction on the rotating element. This pressurized hydrogen is kept inside the generator by an oil sealing system. Whenever that seal oil system has to be shut down or whenever some maintenance function has to be performed inside the generator the hydrogen must be purged out. To do this you open a vent on top to atmosphere and depressurize the generator then you admit carbon dioxide to the bottom and purge to atmosphere until all the hydrogen is gone. Once that’s done you then purge the carbon dioxide with air until all the carbon dioxide is gone. At this point you shut down the seal oil system. To recover you reverse the process. Takes a lot of CO2 and it’s done in ever steam power plant in the World with a generator of any size.

Oldnuke on December 9, 2009 at 5:37 PM

Oldnuke on December 9, 2009 at 5:37 PM

Makes sense to me. You would need to purge the H2 with CO2 to prevent an explosive atmosphere forming within the genset.

Just curious, though – and this question may reveal the limits of my understanding of gases: why not purge/inert with nitrogen instead of CO2? I’m assuming the combination would be explosive?

Don’t get me wrong; I appreciate that CO2 has a lot of industrial uses. Personally I’m waiting for the green idiots to advocate banning carbonated soft drinks because CO2 is used as the “fizzy” agent.

And I should add that I always appreciate reading your comments here on HA, because you demonstrate to me a deep knowlege of nuclear power issues and the politics surrounding it.

-Wanderlust

Wanderlust on December 9, 2009 at 6:04 PM

Wanderlust on December 9, 2009 at 6:04 PM

Carbon dioxide serves a dual purpose in a power plant. Fire suppression and generator purging. A hydrogen fire at a seal point is a very real danger. This involves oil, high pressure gas and fire, terrible combination. Each seal point has a fire detection system and automatic CO2 fire suppression system mounted. The fire suppression system uses the same CO2 source as the purge system thus initial costs are kept lower. There is probably some cost benefit too. I couldn’t tell you what that is though even though over the years I’ve been responsible for purchases of all three gasses in large quantities. Right now I couldn’t tell you what a tank of nitrogen costs. Nuclear plants that I’m familiar with also have liquid nitrogen storage tanks that are used for other tasks. We had far less maintenance headaches with the CO2 storage units than we did with the nitrogen plant.

Oldnuke on December 9, 2009 at 6:26 PM

Keep it up libs. Keep it up. You wanted a ‘revolution’, well you’re going to get a REVOLUTION!.

GarandFan on December 9, 2009 at 7:24 PM

0bama promised during his campaign that he would bankrupt the coal industry.

Why folks are acting all suprised now, is a mystery to me.

Rebar on December 9, 2009 at 3:06 PM

The media kept that ObaMao promise under the wraps. Other than those who get their news from sources other than television, too many voters only got the sanitized version of the BoyKing.

You cannot believe how many “UMWA for Obama” yard signs dotted the coal country landscape of PA. I could only shake my head in dismay.

onlineanalyst on December 9, 2009 at 8:41 PM

Really. The union people you know and the one’s I know are quite different. Now, are a lot of the union members I know politically naive? Yep. Are they begging scrap scroungers? Not hardly.

tgharris on December 9, 2009 at 4:03 PM

The rank and file aren’t the slack jawed yokels that the Bosses think they are. If the right conservative leader steps forward, they will have the support of the working men and women referred to as Reagan Democrats in the 80′s.

Red State State of Mind on December 9, 2009 at 8:54 PM

before the EPA “finding” that carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases are a danger to human health.

Unemployment is a danger to human health.

Red State State of Mind on December 9, 2009 at 9:02 PM

…..If the right conservative leader steps forward, they will have the support of the working men and women referred to as Reagan Democrats in the 80’s.

Red State State of Mind on December 9, 2009 at 8:54 PM

Agreed.

Unemployment is a danger to human health.

Red State State of Mind on December 9, 2009 at 9:02 PM

Also agreed.

tgharris on December 10, 2009 at 1:03 AM

These are forgotten people. Where is Rockefeller and Joe Manchin? Nothing more pathetic than a WASP Democrat. At least the black caucus is complaining about Porkulus and how their people are suffering.

I saw Affirmative Action screw over kids from the wasteland of Appalachia in favor of black kids with professional parents.

But they did have a Diane Sawyer Special on ABC once.

IlikedAUH2O on December 10, 2009 at 7:40 AM

This coal company has hit the nail on the head. Other companies should take its lead and blame all layoffs on environmentalists and sympathetic judges. Print it in layoff notices : You Lost Your Job Because Of Global Warming Alarmist Environmentalists.

kens on December 10, 2009 at 12:37 PM

Not malaise… sabotage.

DANEgerus on December 10, 2009 at 2:48 PM

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